The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
In this bonus episode, Tammah Watts, LMFT shares how her life took an unexpected turn after suffering a neurological injury following a routine surgery, which left her unable to return to the work she loved. She opens up about how birdwatching became therapeutic for her, allowing her to connect with nature, practice mindfulness, and find purpose and joy in observing birds. She also gives us a peak inside her latest book, Keep Looking Up: Your Guide to the Powerful Healing of Birdwatching.
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Where to Find Tammah
Keep Looking Up: Your Guide to the Powerful Healing of Birdwatching
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Producers: Fredia Lucas, Ellice Ellis & Cindy Okereke
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for the special bonus episode of Therapy for Black Girl's podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Today we have special guests Tama Watts, a licensed marriage and family therapist with an inspiring story. Tama shares how her life took an unexpected turn after suffering a neurological injury following a routine surgery, which left her unable to return to the work she loved. However, through this challenging experience, she rediscovered her passion for birdwatching. In today's episode, she opens up about how birdwatching became therapeutic for her, allowing her to connect with nature, practice mindfulness, and find purpose and joy in observing birds. She also gives us a peek inside her latest book, Keep Looking Up, Your Guide to the powerful Healing of bird Watching. Tama's story is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the healing power of nature. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in session, or join us over in the Sister Circle. To talk more in depth about the episode. You can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Tamma, thank you, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to chat with you today. If you feel comfortable, can you tell us a little bit about you kind of started bird watching after a surgery. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience and what life was like for you in the immediate aftermath of the surgery. Yes, certainly. The best way I can answer that question is to say how my life was, because that's what I feel created a dissension for me descending into a deep, deep depression and other related conditions. I was very busy, z I was a mental health administrator, working sixty seventy hours at a time, and even though I didn't identify myself with what my profession is and what I do and give that as part of my profession, I realized that after the injury following a surgery, needing to abruptly stop work, it wasn't planned, it was sudden, really created a loss of what it was I was doing in my profession. Yes, I'm a mother, grandmother, but for some reason that immediate loss of that sixty seventy in need in terms of offering care for others and support, I came into a deep depression. In addition to that was the severe pain of the condition that I had, which is chronic regional pain syndrome. It stills considered rare when I first contracted it. It wasn't fully understood. It was still emerging as acceptance of what it was, and so I went through a lot of trials and errors, and as with medical visits and medications, that just further descended me in a sense of hopelessness, like there's nothing that can be done. I'm due, and so that's where I was. I had shame associated with not being able to function as I used to. At one point, I couldn't even hold a pen without shaking terribly, or pick up I say, a stray dime because it was flat on the surface, or breastwine teeth, even just carry a pan of water. Things you take for grant up quite often. I lost that, and so it was very apparent to me how debilitated I was, and that further descended into more depression and stress and anxiety because of the loss of everything in my mind at that time, that's what it felt like. And it became very dark for me and very isolating, like the world was continuing to go on that I was in this house. I didn't see it as a home. It was just this space. I couldn't walk, I couldn't trialize like I used to. It was a lot. It was a lot. Yeah, And so you know, one of the things that you turn to, it sounds like, was birdwatching. So can you talk a little bit about do you remember your first time when you went birdwatching? Wasn't an intentional kind of thing? Did it just happen? What do you remember about that? First time. I kind of have like two aspects about my connection with birds and birdwatching. So I have my connection as a young girl growing up early on with chickens and my duck, my pet duck. So I had that. I feel like that was the root of foundation that was always in me. And both my parents spent time outdoors, took us outdoors as children, and so I feel like that was in my cells and contained in me. Even though beyond that an adulthood, I was so busy here, there and everywhere. I didn't pay attention to birds at all during a number of years. So then in later years, in the more recent times, I would say because of the debilitating pain, depression, the anxiety, the loss, and there was a lot of loss and Greek about all of this. One of the days, it was in the morning, I was trying to fill a medium sized piano water and it was shaking in my hands, but I was doing it, and I happened to look up out of my kitchen window up at a tree. And we have a tree that early on we moved in here, we had dirt, we planted a little tree. So I happened to look out and there was this yellow moving through the trees, and so at first I thought it was those yellow blossoms on the tree, but something different was moving and I looked up and I saw it was this little yellow bird. At the time, I didn't know what it was called, but it's called a yellow warbler. So their buttery yellow and then they have a little bit of red streaking on their chest, the mail birds do, and that's what that was. So there's this yellow sticking out, moving around, coming to drink, and it happened to look at me, just for a split second. Probably it could have felt like time stopped. It felt like it just stared at me. It casted beams of sunshine all over my soul because literally, in that second, there was this different connection that created a connection to life, to possibilities to see outside, to like there is life. Part of this is met processing this after, but at the time it caught me like this, and then I began to notice it come. And so every time I would go to the kitchen, which for me, I'm in the kitchen a lot, maybe more than I should, but I'm in the kitchen looking and I started to look up every single time, and it became habit over many weeks and months, and I would see it out. I have a seat again, and now I know. This was during spring migration when the yellow warblers come through in southern California. So it really drew me outdoors, and I went outside. I was curious. I began to notice other birds, many that now live all the year round, like doves, housefinches for folks who may or may not know about those, and they tend to be more browns. When you start to notice, you notice all kinds of variations. And so that began to help ease me out, little by little, a minute at a time, ease my way outdoors and noticing birds. And so that's the connection. M what a beautiful story. Yeah, I wonder if there will also will connect into your childhood right when things were simpler and less complicated, right, since you already had a connection to birds, right. And the interesting thing is, my mother was always ahead of her time. She's a Maverick woman, beautiful, and she's still alive with us, she's ninety one years. Then she was away ahead of her time, the daughter of an aa ME minister that she was like all over the place doing other things unconventionally. So she wanted us to have a farm. And so this little yellow duck when I picked it out at the feed store, it was bright yellow, and I didn't make that connected related, but that I feel like that's I shared that of originally, like I think the foundation have been set way back so that I could then have that much needed assistance, right right, So can you say a little bit more about what the bird watching did for you trying to manage the chronic pain, So you'd already say they kind of helped to draw you out in one of the ways that you feel like it was helpful to you. It reduced the amount of time that I was alidably focused on the dark spots and spaces of what I had lost, of my losses, and it really created a lot of curiosity and that there was these unknown appearances that were coming. And when that happens, that really is diversion from your energy and focus away from what isn't going well, what isn't happening for you necessarily, like for me speak for myself in that regard, and in doing that, we now know neurologically, physiologically we can reduce the sensations of like pain in symptoms of depression in that process. So that's what it has done for me, and that's in the home space. I then became so curious that I got a guide book to kind of figure out what are these birds I'm seeing? And then I began to feel confident enough to walk around in my neighborhood. So I began to go outdoors and get move my body even a little bit in the way that I could. I'm not running, I wasn't walking briskly like maybe other folks. But for me to go out and get in that fresh air that we now know is also helpful for reducing symptoms of depression, anxiety, stress, even a few minutes versus staying indoors all the time made a difference. So doing that over time, I'm not necessary going for a walk. I was going to go see what birds I could find. I'm walking, I'm moving, I'm staying out a little longer. And you know, if I have to pause and lean up against the fence or sit down on a stoop or something, I do that without Philly, you're not doing it right or you can't go the full way. It's like, I go on the way that I can. So that allowed me to develop more physical stamina. So at the same time, I'm kind of getting the benefits of both, and I'm seeing other birds. I began to feel more confident. And this is over a number of years because of my debilitation that I was beginning to improve and improve. I finally decided, like, I'm going to join a local Audubon chapter. And Audubon is a bird conservation environmental organization. They've been around since the late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, and so they in different states. They have local chapters throughout the states, and so I wanted to join. One thought, how am I going to do this. I don't want to just show I'm not a birder. I don't look a lot of these folks. This is uncomfortable, But yet I wanted to be able to learn more and be in a community with others that had similar interests, and so I decided to attend what's called the Christmas Bird Count. It's an annual event where all over North America people join in teams and they count the birds they see during and designated two weeks in December. Usually all of that is tabulated with researchers and scientists to see patterns of what species may be a decline, what rarities may be showing up because of climate change, whether whatever the reasons, it really gives a picture, a snapshot of what's going on. So you're contributing to a broader, greater space than yourself. And then being in community. The power of community is profound, and so being with folks that maybe some of them are a lot of them, no more than you do. A lot of the new life first started, they knew all the birds, and I was just finding joy and just being around others and in that space. Now I'm basically a bird lady for sure. But that's how it grew and grew, is that feeling of connection that the birds invited me to go further out and to connect more and more and more, and some of that community science that you're talking about, I can imagine kind of feel some of the need to kind of give back in the same way that you were doing in your practice exactly exactly. It's like you just know and it's it's what you can do, right. I mean, you're one of several and that's what I talked about in the book, is like a flock is one of many, and in a flot birds will fly like if you see geese flying in that V formation, or pelicans, you know, certain species of birds, there's one in front and then you just have the v so that they can cut the wind. Well, that one in front is leading the rest, but then it gets tired, it can slip back into place, and another one will take its place and carry the journey on for the group. And so that's what I say. And flocks will flock together with different species, some that eat on the grounds, some that eat in the trees, and so those in the trees can look for predators and warn the ones on the ground. And when they're mixed together, there's more numbers and a flot, so they present safety for themselves against predation from others, predators, animals. So whatnot. So that power of community, which is why I named that chapter bird watching in your community flock, that powerful sense of belonging is huge, and we know that that too helps with reduction and depression stress, all kinds of benefits of being in community, right right, So besides the power of community, what other kinds of lessons do you feel like the birds have taught you? So many? I learned all the time every day about them too. They've taught me to really accept me and myself. They're non judgmental. Is how I see birds that they're non judgmental. Now they may not like you, you know, storming out, because they'll take flight if you come storming out, but they're not judging you. They're just responding to you. I feel like birds represent that there's a reminder for us to just pause and take notice of what happens to come by. Whether it's a fly by, a landing on a balcony ledge, or in a bush or up in a tree. It's just a reminder to say, just take a moment and notice, like what is around. It really is for me a reminder of gratitude of self acceptance. It's like, we'll accept you how you are. Sometimes I'm out there in my pajamas. The birds will accept you anyway. And they're everywhere, So there's that reminder can be for everyone. So that's what for me. Birds remind us that we belong here just like they belong here. Part of it is when you feed birds and offer them water, it's a sense of also doing self care. There's a sense of a beneficial mutual relationship that you develop when you feed birds, but even a little hummingbird feeder, usually the same little hummingbird will come over time. So you develop this relationship of caring and trust me a hummingbird if it goes empty, If anybody has a humming barfeed and it goes empty, those little hummingbirds are looking zippy like where where's our food? Where are you? We need you? And so it really does reinforce like a sense of being needed. There's benefit to it. And so like I say on conservation or saying, when we do better, birds do better. So those are some of the reminders more from my conversation with Tamma after the break. Yeah, so you've already kind of outlined a couple of the mental health benefits. So you know you talked about like a reduction in stress, reduction in the pain. What other mental health benefits have you found related to birdwatching. I find that a lot of folks that I talk with phil a sense of reduction of their depression, also a sense of there's something more beyond you the person going through a dark time. And like I said, and you can show up to notice it just how you are. So if you can't get up off the sofa, right now, or you can look through a window, hope, or look through a door. It also creates a sense of belonging, like we've talked about, and there's you know, new research that shows bird's song does help with the symptoms of reduction and stress, a sense of comb that the sound of birds creates a sense of comb for us. That kind of is linked to our natural sense of the natural world, green spaces, blue spaces, and so hearing bird's song, particularly in the afternoon has been found to be really beneficial for those kinds of symptoms of mental health depression, anxiety, stress, So those are some of the benefits. And spending time just noticing birds in the afternoon as well. So that's one of the I think of benefits that you don't have to just go look at birds in the warnings. Some people say, oh, you have to get up really at the dawn and do it not necessarily. So what does your bird watching practice look like? Is it something that you do daily, weekly? What does they look like? It's definitely daily, and it takes all different kinds of forms. I think I'm considered like a hybrid type person and that's part of what I want to share with folks that if you'd do birding the way you want to do it, it doesn't have to stick to this concept that you have to have the ad in certain colors in certain ways. But every day I go out and sit with the birds. Sometimes it's ten minutes, five minutes, and other times it's a couple of hours when I can. I'll even work outdoors when I'm writing or working on a project that I can just take my laptop out there and do that the table doors. I'll do that and I'm watching birds as I'm working. So to me, that's like the best office that I can get away with that. If not, I'll look through the window and notice because I have a honey BREFFI hanging out near a tree out near a window. And then I'll also at times go on outings that are sponsored by the local chapter of Audubon that I'm a member of. It helps invite me into spaces that I may not know about otherwise. So I learned about new trails, new parks, and a lot of the guides are very non eligible and so they may say, oh, there's the species coming through this rare like there's birds that get flown up course and they're very rare in certain regions depending on where you live, and so people may not otherwise see it. So this is an opportunity to go do that. And that's called chasing a bird, going after the bird, Like specifically, I want to go see this one particular bird that only here, Like for me to see a cardinal would be a huge thing, like that would be stop everything, We'll see the cardinal. Or like here's an example early January. Did you hear about the snowy owl that was in Orange County, California? Idea? See how I mean I hit the international I mean it was international news. Great. Yeah, so I went up because I live in San Diego County. I took my granddaughter And so that's the other piece of this that's beneficial. When I can, I will take my granddaughter's my birding buddy that I can coax into going with me, and so she's kind of got the bug too. But this is like a once in a lifetime opportunity to see a snowy owl that normally is up way north, like Alaska Way North and North America. And during this period of time it might descend in the lower price of Canada. But here it was in La County, Orange County, so so many people were literally I hate to use this term, but they were flocking. I mean they were in the street, they were all over the sidewalk. So to be a part of something that really was historical. So you'll find me doing that kind of thing. So there's like a brunt and that's the thing I like. It's like when I choose to do it, I'll sometimes go with somebody else. A lot of times I'll walk on a trail where I live and just see what I see by myself, and then when I want to, I can join a full community of people. I do volunteer for audubon a couple of capacities as well, so it has grown for me in terms of how I contribute back. So there might be an event like a wetlands event down a main part of San Diego County to really restore that back to the indigenous lands, which also benefits birds and habitat as well. So that might bring hundreds of people, just like the snowy al brought hundreds of people and events around that. So you can pick and choose when you want to lean in more or just decide to do it as like a solitude and just do something that's special just for yourself. I thought that was a long answer. No, that's fine, but I am curious. Those were people who are enjoying the conversation and they want to get started with birdwatching, Like what what do you do? Like do you just go outside in your neighborhood? Like how do you actually get started birdwatching? Okay, well, first I would have just say, you know, don't worry about feeling as though it's for all folks, because a lot of people think like birdings just for all folks and it's not. So I just want to start there. You know that it's for every age. Birding is accepting of everyone. So to really get started, honestly, you just need a few minutes of your time. I say, give yourself at least ten minutes if you can, and if you can go outside, just please step outside where the birds are so you don't have to go far. So if we're saying at home, step out and wait and just you can sit, I would say said, unless you want to stand, but try to do so as quietly as you can. Just enter the space as though you're an uninvited guest, because the longer you sit outside or spend time outside, the birds will start to emerge because they start to feel like everything's quiet and safe. And then you'll notice even more birds come forward for you. So the longer you can be out there, you'll start to notice more movement and sounds come forward again. There you are, you're birding, you're enjoying birds. And then for someone maybe you can't go outside, but you look out of the window and just keep looking out, you'll eventually maybe notice a bird that way because your mind's thinking about I'm going to look and see if I see any birds, and then you probably will notice what or you might hear what a crow, Maybe it's a raven. It's hard to sometimes sell between a corona or raven, but you'll hear that or the dove you know, or finches. I want to invite folks to see that as you have started to engage with them, because you're taking notice in the way that you can. I mean, I sometimes notice when I'm driving somewhere, I'll see a big bird sitting up on a lamp post or a light or something, and I'll look and say, what is that? You know, So you can do it in different ways, but really to get started, that really is what you need is time. And then if you really want to gil being in a little more, then I would invite you to consider buying binoculars because binoculars allow you to see the birds in more detail, and someone like myself, I have poor visions, so it really helps me to really see a lot of details, which helps for more appreciation of a bird that you might think, Oh, it's just a plain old brown bird. What am I thing? You'll begin to see, No, there's like three or four different color shades of brown, or there's some other color in there that you hadn't seen. And it lets you see birds further away from you as well, brings them up close. So whatever your budget and what you'd like to spend or binoculars range across the board and you can just go from there. I invite folks if you want to. There's apps that you can download that are free. E Bird Merlin that's for sales, an ID how to Bond has an app, and those can help tell you what kind of bird you're looking at if you want to start get curious that way and kind of broaden it. Or you can actually get a book a guide book. This has pictures of the different birds where you can find them, so it becomes almost like a detective story because you try to figure out what is that this bird is at that And that's a great way to engage children too, not for long at first, it's peaking their curiosity, like I wonder what kind of bird that is? Right? So, yeah, that's how you get started. M So can you do this in this city as well? Or do people need to travel to like the countryside or you know, a more rural area to do birdwatching. That's a great question and the answer is yes, you can bird anywhere anywhere, anywhere. And I know that a lot of people feel like that because there's you know, sounds and movement and too much moving and not as much green space or water around so that it feels like, well, it's just a lot of not that, so then the birds aren't there. It is true birds are attracted to trees and bushes, but birds still are around, so you will see them, You really will see them in all the spaces. And that's what I like about birds. They're accessible around the world. They don't care what you do or do not have, what you look like, what you are wearing for the most part. But again, if you're out there in a white T shirt and that's what you want to do, it's fine. Birds are still going to cut and they're free, they're flying free, and they're free to us to notice and get the benefits from them and that mutual exchange too. So you mentioned if possible to wear more muta clothes because that may kind of help you blend in more to the background. Is there anything else we should be mindful of. You mentioned kind of entering an environment quietly, any other suggestions around how we're supposed to interact or behave around birds. I think those are the two. Just if you can wear colors that kind of reflect the natural environment, like you're saying, that's why you see folks dressed that way, because you're blending in, you're acknowledging kind of the earth elements, if you will. And then if you're going out into a space, if you can just remember to walk out slowly like an unadvited guest who's just being like, let me enter this space so they can get used to knowing who I am. Because the birds over time will get to know you. They do get to know you like I'm able to walk slowly where the birds don't necessarily fly away because they start, oh it's her, especially if you feed them. Yeah, so are they knowing you through smell? Like how are they like developing a relationship with you? I think just from sight? Yeah, they see like if you have a bag with the bird seed or peanuts or with crows, like peanuts by the way in the shell, not salt. But anyway, they're very smart and so they do see that. So they make that association like, oh, this is the food lady. So if you move gently around and I tend to walk on the perimeter on the edges of my yard too, sometimes they won't take off if I walk very slowly, so they kind of helped me slow down. And so that's how they build in that mindfulness for me. It's almost like you can kind of do it as an experiment, like let me see if I couldn't walk from here to there and not have the doves are a good one to use and not have the doves fly off? And the first you know, until they get to know you got it. Got it? So damma. I do want to talk a little bit about like black people in like our relationship to nature and specifically birding. Right, so we know that they're was a pretty well advertised incident of a black man in New York birding who had the police called on him, right, And so I do think that that kind of contributes to some of our reluctance to kind of engage in these kinds of spaces. What kinds of things do you think are important for our community to really know about our relationships in nature and birds specifically, that's an important question. Yes, it is unfortunate that that helps a Christian cooper and it's you know, sadly that wasn't the first time. So we know that there's a history of a message being said that we shouldn't be in certain spaces. And what I want to say about that is, and I'm pulling this also from my own immediate ancestors, etc. And our people, is we have a right to be in these spaces. Our ancestors who gave guidance as to how to be on the land, how to tend the land, how to care for the land, and we have to remind ourselves that is our given stand and with that, yes, we need to keep ourselves safe. And so if that means not going by yourself, if that means creating a buddy system and going together so you feel safe. I really want to emphasize that you have to go out in the way that each one of us feel safe. What might feel safe for me may not feel safe for you, may not feel safe for another person. Rightly so each of us. And it's acknowledged that there are folks that feel threatened from us in terms of their insecurities, their constructs. It's their problem that ends up making it ours. But what I want to encourage folks to have that acknowledgement, So I'm not saying, you know, being naive about risk to us as pupil. At the same time, I really want to underscore the importance for us to remember what our ancestors represented and gifted to us in terms of their knowing that we have in us that same knowing that we have a right. And really I want to sail us necessity to take care of ourselves by being back on the land. Go outside, be outside. You're supposed to be here there And this is why I'm wearing this. I don't know if you can see it, because the sun cofa bird, which represents casting back up to our ancestors. I got this Amali was gifted to me. This is important. You have to remember that our connection with the land with birds of all domesticated and otherwise goes through history and time beyond us. And besides, like traveling in groups, are bringing a buddy? Are there other things you would suggest for a safety well if you want to go yourself, letting someone know what your plan is, how long you anticipate to go, carry your phone with you for sure, carry a whistle if you'd like. If you're going to a park, a state park, for example, check in with the ranger station. There's another layer. Take the time to do all of these, and that doesn't take long to just sign in on the sheet that you're there in the park. We're talking state parks and whatnot. Where you might want to venture out on your own or even with others, you still should I really highly recommend just go into the ranger station sign in so they know you're all the property somewhere, and there's usually some valuable information that you can get while you check in. There might be a certain bobcat siding or bear siding that you need to be aware of so that you adjust your course. There might be other information that's helpful for you to enjoy spending the time there, or some special offering or event that you might not have known if you hadn't checked in. Check before you leave your home, go online and look at the space you want to go to. Do they have the things you need for some folks that have additional needs that they have. Do they have a bathroom? Is there accessible parking? What are the type of roads or trails? Are they steep? Are they flat? Is it smooth? Because some folks that use wheels and buy wheels, I mean everything for wheelchairs to strollers to bikes. Can you do that if you advise someone who's going with you for the first time. I also really emphasize reduced the amount of time you do it the first time, because there's time spent getting there, lanning being there, and then time to get back and so you want to account for all of that. Do you need your medication? Do you need layers of clothing depending on weather? So checking some of that and it's not to feel like, oh, that's all burdens up. You can do that very quickly online a lot of the times, and you can get into abbit of doing it, so it doesn't take away from the fun in doing that, it prepares you to have even more fun. And then if you're really traveling distances that you're familiar with, there are people that can be your guides that you can pay a small fee for and some of them are offered free. You just have to reach out and try to coordinate with someone that can go with you, that knows the terrain, knows the area. If you're wanting to connect with birds in particular, in addition to maybe spending time now and other wildlife, but you're really wanting to see birds, people that are local to an area. Let's say you're traveling to Costa Rica or somewhere to another part there's outside where you normally live, connecting with others, and a lot of people volunteer their time because when they come to your space, they'll ask you, could you show me around in your city your town as well, So again it's that reciprocal relationship, and then that can increase your sense of safety because it's you're with someone that knows and they also know what they're looking for, so also increase your enjoyment. Got it, Thank you for that, Tima one from my conversation with Tamma after the break. So I have a couple of rapid fire questions that I want to ask you, and you've already answered a couple of these. I want to see if you have some additional insight to give us here. So can you tell me the rarest bird you've seen? Was it the snowy owl or something else? That's a good question. I think it might be now the story owl. And I also saw Annie it looks a walk like a raven, and a raven looks like a bigger crow with the beak is a little different, but they look so close. But just imagine like a big, big crow like a raven. But this one had a oddly shaped beak. And that bird is really from deep in South America. And it was up here at a local park, and it was hard to find that. People kept saying, we had to go several times and I found so before I would have said maybe that bird before now the snowy owl. So you're right, I think I'm gonna have to if I have to only say one, I guess I am going to say the snowy ow. Okay, So tell me when you set off on an adventure to find a special kind of bird. Was this also the snowy owl? Or what other adventures have you gone on in search of a particular bird? So yes, the convenience of the snowy owl is yes. It took me two hours to get there. You know, I'm in San Diego County. It's an Orange county, so that was a bit of a trek, but that wasn't like too much. And I talked about this in my book in the chapter called migration bird watching in My Environment, And I kind of mean that ironment meaning travel when you really start to go farther out beyond your home in your neighborhood. And so I talk about in that chapter because each chapter opens with a story of light, and so the story I chose to Sharon that was to see the tufted puffins that come in once a year or about four and a half months. They fly into Oregon on the coast of Oregon in a town called Cannon Beach, and they land on this large monolith that's grassy has burrowing and for generations these birds come from sea. They spend the rest of the time out at sea. People don't really even know what they do at sea. They spend the whole time out and then around April they come in to nest and they usually have one little bird which is called the puffling, which is and it's a two little vol fur. And then around April May, Joring, July, around July August maybe said, they fly back out to see again, and then they repeat that the next year. So to catch them you have to go at a certain time through all this huge monelith, which is difficult to see. I mean, there's abundance of time at certain peak times of the year. And so as a little girl, I always thought they were the most interesting little birds. And if for folks that may not know, a puffin looks almost like a penguin, but with more white in its face, an orange like a reddish orange, and yellow triangular type shape beak, and they kind of look very odd, kind of penguinisque type. So as a kid, that was so appealing to me. I'd see the the National Geographic and most puffins are in like Icelands and other locations far far away. So I thought, one of these days I am going to go see one. I'm going to have to find a way to go to this far far away land, And like I advise in my book, when you're going on a trip, why not take a look at your route and see if there's any bird sanctuaries, state parks, something along the lines that you might find that there's birds there that you want to see along the way. You might take fifteen minutes out of your day or a couple of hours on your way to your journey. And so I did that. I was taking my son up to eastern Washington, the state of Washington, to spend some time at a family property friends for him to work on it during the summer. And so I thought, well, Whip Sanctuary, Whip Parks, wildlife place can I stop along the way and see? And so then I thought, well, I have to come back down to south again, to California, So what's a lot of the coast over there? And that's what I learned that there's tepped a peppers there. So I made a whole plan and trip around fulfilling my childhood dream of seeing these birds. And so that's what I did. I had an ocean view. I made sure to get a nice little suite, had a little fireplace in there. It had a patio so I could see right on the beach. It was a couple of days. It wasn't long once I got there, but I just said, do you know what I'm going to give myself? It was self care. It was like my own retreat, just a little time away by myself. And I walked around little town and met up with a guide. I planned ahead and I called nonprofit organization that helps you learn about the puffins. It's called Haystack Rock. And so I connected with her, Jesse, which she's mentioned in the book. And she was able to show and guide me and help me see the birds and understand about them, because I really wanted to make sure I did. And so this is something that ever considered too. It was a really nominal fee to be able to have a deeper appreciation for this childhood dream I had. So I also recommend that again, you know, some volunteer to do it. And that's what I did. Nice, not a beautiful experience. So tell us a little bit. We've already talked a little about the book and kind of gotten a beautiful story really behind the name of the book. Keep looking up? So what can we look forward to in the book And how do you want readers to actually use the book. Thank you, So the book, I really just to say that there hasn't been a bird watching a birding book like this before. I guess I want books approach to still as more than It's different than just your traditional birding book. So it is a narrative memoir. The power of story is very important to me. I know that that is a connector soul to soul for us to really have opportunity to share our stories as part of healing, which is why in each chapter opens with a personal story of mine related to that chapter's topic. Each chapter has a topic and it has a subtitle topic related to the bird that really emphasizes and reinforces that connection between us as humans with birds are and how they can gift to us and vice versa. There is a part of it that has some guidance in it, so there is a part that has is like a mini guide book perch after and then at the end of each chapter there are reflective exercises. So this is where the clinical mental health therapist part of me came forward and really wanted to invite folks to help deepen your reader's connection with the chapter you just read. How does this apply for you. How can you integrate this in for you and have this relationship that's only unique to you and personal to you, which is so powerful. How does this reinforce and help lift your story? That's what the reflective or exercises are for, is to connect in that way too. So and there is that piece of it that I really am wanting to emphasize a way of acknowledging depression and stress and lost and greed of loved winds, anxiety, all of those that often have a lot of stigma attached to them. I was called I felt like I was called to. The stories came up. It was not easy to write about them, and including regarding my mother with her Alzheimer's. But I know too many people I speak to that have know someone or they are the caregiver and what that is about. And there's the joy and the love in that, as well as the challenges being in appropriate love caring for a loved one. I wanted to address these real life experiences in a way that invites others to feel that they can too, and how the connection with birds is what can really invite you to as you would choose to. It's another strategy or a tool You know, as therapists we talk about what does your toolbox look like? What is in your toolbox with you know, when you're feeling depressed, what can you reach in the toolbox and pull out to help you? Is it take a walk, is it to journal, is it to take a nap? Is it your medication? And so I say, can you take a few moments and notice the birds? Because again we now know that that can help. Just take a moment, be in the present moment instead of worrying about what you didn't do yesterday or moments ago, or what you're going to do. It helps you get mindful. Now you've answered the beautifully. Think you've hit it. Yes, yes, And you can use it in different ways, so you can use it and there are exercises that you can go back and use. That's the other thing, thank you. You can go back and use the exercises time and time again. That's the other piece that I really want to emphasize that it's not a one time and it's done and you can go back and use it as much as you're like perfect. I think that will be a beautiful edition for a lot of people's too. Backs that I'm really glad that you wrote it and share those stories with this. So where can we stay connected with you? What is your website as well as any social media handles you'd like to share. So my website is Tamilwats dot com. I spend a lot of time on Instagram, well not a lot of time, but that's where I am. I'm still trying to get on social media and I am connected. I'm on the board of autom on California, so I cross over in those spaces. You'll see me offering webinars like on myful Bird sit coming up. It's a work part series through Audubon California in conjunction with them, you'll see that me. I'm associated with that, but I think going to Timbowats dot com is a great way to just keep up with where I am at what's offered. I try to make sure to hear of that information. So folks that might want to partake some of those webinars to kind of get a sense of what birds are about, we'll have that opportunity. Okay, And where can we find the book? Can we also grab that from your website? The book is anywhere you buy books, So if you like to buy your book at a particular indie bookshop. Please you order it through their Amazon. It's in trade paperback, it's an e book and now the audio will be released and I narrate it, so it's great. And there is a meditation in their mindful Meditation in the book too that I narrate. They can listen to it. So anywhere you buy books, Barnes, a, Noble, Target, Walmart, everywhere. It's being released worldwide. Got it. We will definitely include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much. It's spending some time with today. Thank you. It was fine. I love talking about birds and especially with me talk to Joey. Thank you so much. Thank you for being with us. I'm so grateful to Tamma for joining us today. To learn more about her incredible work, or to grab a copy of Keep looking Up, visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash bird Watching, and don't forget to text two of your girls to tell them to check out the episode as well. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be in community with other sisters. Come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You can join us at Community dot Therapy for blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas and Elise Ellis and editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take it here