The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
Since its 1999 theatrical premiere The Best Man franchise has been a beloved staple within our community. It was the talk of the town once again when the sequel, The Best Man Holiday, debuted in 2013. And now, 24 years later, under the direction of Malcolm D. Lee and featuring the original acclaimed cast aka the “Justice League of Black Hollywood.” The Best Man Final Chapters has once again ignited our conversations on what it means to be in community with friends and family. The kind of interpersonal relationships that know you well enough to tell you about yourself and hold space for you when you’ve lost who you are.
To discuss The Best Man: Final Chapters in-depth, this week, I'm in conversation with 2 more incredible members of the team, Content Director, Kamron Taylor and Content Specialist, Gorgeous West. In our conversation we explore, how the limited series met and missed our expectations, which character dynamics we were most enthralled by and disappointed in, and how we feel knowing that these are our final moments with Quentin, Shelby, Harper, Robyn, Murch, Candace, Lance, and Jordan. This episode does contain spoilers.
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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for a special bonus episode of Therapy for of Black Girls. We'll get into our conversation right after a word from our sponsors. Before we get into it, please note that this episode does include spoilers for the new Peacock series The Best Man final chapters, so if you haven't had the opportunity to watch, please put this episode on pause and return once you've had your time to enjoy the series. Since its theatrical premiere, the Best Man franchise has been a beloved staple within our community. It was the talk of the town once again when the sequel, The Best Man Holiday, debuted in t and now twenty four years later, under the direction of Malcolm D. Lee and featuring the original acclaimed cast a k a. The Justice League of Black Hollywood. The Best Man Final Chapters has once again ignited our conversations on what it means to be in community with friends and family, the kind of into personal relationships that know you well enough to tell you all about yourself, and whole space for you when you've lost who you are. To discuss The Best Main Final Chapters in depth this week, I'm in conversation with my beloved TVG team members, content director Cameron Taylor and content specialist Gorgeous West. In our conversation, we explore how the limited series met and missed our expectations, which character dynamics we were most enthralled by and disappointed in, and how we feel knowing that these are our final moments with Quentin Shelby, Harper, Robin Merch, Candice Lance in Jordan's. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag tv G in Session, or you can come on over and join us in the sister circles. To talk more in depth about the episode, you can join us at community that Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Here's our conversation. So, I'm so excited to be joined by two new members of our team today. So Gorgeous West and Cameron Taylor are joining me today to talk about one of our new favorites, The Best Man Final Chapter. So, Cameron and Gorgeous, do you want to share who you are and what you do here Therapy for Black Girls. Yes. So my name is Cameron Taylor, as you mentioned, and I am the content director for Therapy for Black Girls. My name is Gorgeous West, and I'm a confidence specialist or Therapy for Black Girls. Very excited to have both of you joining us. So I think, like many people, you both were spending some of your holiday break binging the Best Man Final chapters. So I do want to get started by just talking. So I love that we are also at different points in our own lives because I think that lends a bit of diversity to how we are entering into the Best Man universe. Right, So tell me how were you introduced to the very first The Best Man. So that came out originally in n So where were you in your life? Did you Were you even watching The Best Man in nineteen ninety nine? Probably not, I think for me, Dr Joy, I was young at the time, so I was one of those kids by default that had to go with their mom and sister so the movie theater to watch the film, and then whenever the scenes were inappropriate, that's when they covered my eyes. But that's when I was first introduced to The Best Man, the whole series and platform. And when did you watch it again, like as an adult, like when you understood what was happening. I was in college. I watched it in in college and what about you, Cameron? Yeah, So I actually can't even remember when it was like introduced to me. I think I just always knew of it as like a classic and obviously like my parents were like, there are a few like movies that you must have under your belt, and The Best Man was of course one of them. So it's just always been in my life, in our family's lives for years. Got it and I was in college, so I was a junior in college, so I saw it in real time, and so I definitely feel like I have grown up with the character as you know, it definitely felt good to see we had the first one of course in ninety nine, and then the holiday in and then we were reintroduced to the characters all grown up and in really into their lives with the Best Man Final Chapters. So tell me about your experience of watching The Best Man Final Chapter. So, first, what was your reaction to even finding out that we were getting the final chapters as a special or limited run series on Peacock. I'm not even gonna lie. I was a little curious. It's like how they were going to do this, Like The Best Man to me just stands alone like the original movie, and I was like, they're gonna do a whole series? What is this gonna even look like? So after watching it, I was like, ah, like, I see there's a lot of character development, which was very, very very pleasant to see that they did all of the characters justice. I think for me Dr Jordan, I was hesitsying. So I'm one of those people if it ain't broke, don't fix it. So I was like, are they really about to do this? Are they going to do it correctly? To it? It doesn't feel fresh. I had a lot of questions going into it. Because it's one of those sayings the best way is a classic within itself, so it's like, if you mess it up, then it's like this to mess up the whole, like nostalgic assett of it for me, and so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna give it a shot, and that's what I did. So once I watched it, I was like, Okay, if they hit that, I was very impressed. Yeah, I think like both of you, I was also a little apprehensive, but I think also just more excited to see, Okay, where are we going to be with these character storylines like this many years later and what is going to be the progression of the stories since we first saw them in n I was also particularly i think encouraged because like the original showrunners and like the executive producer was still involved, right, So I think it would have been a little bit more concerning to me if either like the people who were writing the storylines weren't the same are if they had changed any of the characters, right, So, if we had not seen some of the characters who were in that original film, I think it would have felt a little bit more like I don't know, but I definitely was very excited, and I also think that they did it justice. So tell me any storylines, any particular characters that you felt very strongly about. Either you were very pleased with the story or you were like, they didn't do this person justice. Any people stand out for you, Yes, I was in a positive way, Like in a positive light. I was really pleased with the way that they developed Quentin and Shelby. At first, I thought like, these are kind of like superficial characters, got the player. Then you have Shelby, who's like very again, like I said, superficial, But the depth that they went into their character development throughout the series was like probably the biggest surprise, like learning so much about them and then all are just seeing like Terrence Howard, like his acting chops. I mean, obviously we've always known that he's a great actor, but seeing him in this role was like really truly amazing to me. So those two definitely stand out in like a positive way. Yeah, And I would agree with you, Like I was not really a fan of Shelby like coming into this right because I think she was more of a like Outskirts kind of character, and I was not expecting to really enjoy her as much as I did, But I did really love where they went with that storyline. I though I was confused about why Nicole Ari Parker's character was introduced anyway, right, because it felt like we only had her for a very short time before they put Quentin and Shelby together, and so I'm guessing that was maybe a part of like, Okay, this is how we get introduced to Lance's eventual nubu, right, But it did feel like a little confusing to me, like why we introduced Nicole Are Parker's character in the first place when she really wasn't a part of the story for very long. I think Nicolari Parker her role is there just so that we could see that back and forth at the resort between Nicolari Parker and Shelby, like when she's talking about her being with her man and it's just like very in your face, Like for me, that was just like such a pivotal scene and also a scene where I started to see like Shelby's maturity was, like when Nicolary Parker was about to leave. I think that one of the last episodes where we see Shelby is looking at Cholary Parker and She's like, you know, if you hurt him, it's gonna be over for you. And that's what really kind of like settled. And I'm like, okay, so there's gonna be some depth to Shelby this go around. I think for me, I felt like that was a representation of her and day, like how relationships and couples when people get with new people and you're like, well, wait a minute, I remember you being like this back in the day. You've been with this parson and now you didn't switched up, and so you remember in the series, but Harper, everybody was like, quin is not the same, He's not the same, and they were trying to contribute that to his relationship with her, And in that sense, that switch up, of that shifting him kind of made his friends kind of question who he was currently because he was doing things differently. He was like this whole new holistic person with his new energy, and they were all contributing that to that relationship. So I felt like that was like a representation of current day. How sometimes when your friends and people you know they have known for a long time, when they get into new relationships, they change and they shifted and the person he wants to know them to be might not be that same person anymore. You bring up an interesting point. They're good just and I wonder if we can talk a little bit about like how that might play out in the real world, right, because you know, I think for most of it, we saw them continuing to be supported, right, so it very much felt like they had concerns about, like, Okay, who is this new person Quentin is with, but they were like, Okay, well, if he's happy, we're gonna go along with it. Right. But in the real world, if you have a friend who you know is engaged, or you know, in a long term relationship with somebody who you are looking at a little questionable, how might you handle that. I want to say that I would be as supportive as all of the other people were, and I think some elements of support would be there, But I do think that there would be an element of me that, you know, just very direct with that friend, kind of like, I don't know how I feel about this, And especially if I found that it was impacting their character in some way, impacting the human that they are and the person that I'm friends with, then I think I could see it going a little different. I think, Dr George, that's something you would have to tread very lightly because you can be considered the hater, right, the hater friend if you frank that friend, what are you on? Like? You man, who I know you to be? But then it's like you have to let people grow and elevated, right, So it's like who I know you to be, you could have grown to this new version of itself, So I have to be open to that. But I also agree with your camera Mike addressing it or you know, having a conversation about it but being very tactful and how you do it. And it really feels like that's the role Harper head from most of it, right, Like I think he was the one who was most skeptical of who Quentin had become in this new relationship. But he also was the one who like drove the getaway called when he was like, Okay, do you want to go to the airport to make sure she's getting on the plane? Right, So it's like, Okay, I'm gonna be open to this, but I'm also gonna give you an out, you know, if at any moment you decide that you're ready to roll, Okay, so let us talk about Merch and Candice, who we see now they have a whole family, They're settled into their family life. Candice, it sounds like after the wedding experience has opened up this whole new interest into it sounds like more traditional healing and like alternative medicine kinds of thing. So we see her going back to school, and we do see it to me, feels like a little bit of like an identity crisis kind of situation with Merch. So to share any thoughts that you have about Candice and Merching what we saw of them throughout the series, I'm so glad that you brought that back to Joy because that was one of the notes that I mentioned. Innocence of that shift, especially with Candice. In the very first Best Man, she was the dancer for the bachelor party, and so to see her character evolved to now being a wife, a mother, a scholar, you know, pursuing her education and then you know, working with the schools and then with the children, it was a huge shift as to who you first saw her as to the woman you know she has become. And then also from Merch in the sence of like him, his development of character is becoming more of like okay, yea, I'm not gonna keep playing me like this whimp or this soft person. He definitely you can see him not wanting experience to hold him back as the version of himself he once was in you know, really invites me is now. So I think there's a couple they both representing kind of like they change, or like the world development change from who we find solid ads who we now see them as you know in this scenario Assement. I love how deep they went with Merch's character just in terms of that shift, and like you see the way that that old identity and the way that his friends have been treating him, the way that society is treating him, the way that just culturally our world treats black men. Like I love the way that they investigated that and really did show how much it was deeply affecting him, like in that scene where he's going through all of the different ways that he would approach the white woman when he finds her having lunch with her friends. Like we were able to see that side of Merch, but I think all of us could kind of identify with a little bit of what he was going through, Like all of the different things that you would say to somebody who made you feel a type of way. And then also we're able to see like how that impacted like the relationship with his kids as well, again like as a black man, like how do you as a father, as a parent, all of these things, like how are you showing up for your kids knowing that there is this like hierarchy in society. I thought that was really awesome and I'm proud of them for kind of like delving into that. And I think related to the identity piece, you know, it feels like it started when he was not chosen to be Quentin's best man, right, So there was something very much wrapped into who he thought he was in the circle that I think we then saw play out in other areas of his life, right, And so I think it showed up there. But then it also showed up when Candice was going back to school and he became more of the like stay at home dad in a lot of ways, right, And so then started doing you may may fighting, I guess is what it would be captured as an outlet, right in kind of to to have something for himself. What did you all make of him? Struggling so much with not being chosen to be Quentin's best man. I think for me, it was one thing that he tried to downplay, right, So he was trying to make it not be such a big deal, but it really was a big deal to him. And I think essentially in friend groups and frank circles, you want to be that chosen one. You want to feel like you have that level of important as significance in your friends lives, and so to not be chosen, I think that might have felt like a blow for him, essentially based on the history with Harper being the previous best man and what his past, you know, doing his murder in the first film, so feeling like, well, Dann, how do you get it again? You know what about me? Right, and not to mention he wasn't that successful of the best man given all the history that Harper had, right, So I can imagine Merche being like, what in the world, like, why would he get chosen again? And ultimately we do see that he is eventually given a title, but it definitely seemed like something he was struggling with, you know, at least in the beginning that we saw come out later in the film as well. Yeah, like I think I mean back into like unpacking merchant identity. I feel like there's a part of him that just needed to feel needed, not just in his friend group and then in his family as well, and like when he's not needed or that role shifts in any way, like you can just see the spiral just sort of take place. And again, I think that's something that like like just applying to that practically to anyone's life, Like you can struggle with I'm not needed in this way? What does that mean for me as a person? And that could be very scary to like actually confront with yourself. Yeah, And I think in some ways Candice was having some of that same like internal conversation, right, Like it definitely felt like when she stumbled upon this alternative medicine on the wedding trip, it feels like it was something that she felt like a whole finally, like I have this thing that like is really speaking to me, Like I found the thing that really lights me up. And so we didn't see very many conversations between the two of them about you're going to go pursue this while I kind of take a step back, But I would imagine those were some interesting conversations, right, you know, to kind of say she's gonna go full force into being back in school as opposed to being more the primary parent and doing more of the day to day kind of child rearing responsibilities. So the other thing that I think we see a lot, I think from the beginning, so when Lance was first introduced to us, in the final chapters, we see that he is continuing to struggle with significant grief, right, And I think that this is one of the things that the show did really well was to talk about and to really display like how grief can look lots of different ways. And so from the movie to this series, it looks like it has been about two years since me Is death, so we see that he is still reeling from the loss of Mia and who she was as his partner as well as his children's mom. So gorgeous. I definitely want to hear your thoughts about what grief looked like throughout the series, especially related to Lance's character. Yes, initially you could tell challenge of the struggle, of course the lots of me and was impactful for the whole collective of the group, but you know, especially for him because I was his partner and like you said, his wife, someone that he enventtionedly living life with, and now he has to show up amongst his friend group as a solo and he doesn't have that partner, and that alone to be you know, challenging hints. When they were talking about going to Quentin's wedding, he was kind of like, well, and anyone who talk to lands like is he going? It was kind of up in the air because it was like, we all come together, but he's gonna have to come alone. What does that mean? What does that look like? And in that sense, it's like adapting to this now new normal. And I think there might have been a lot for him initially and going to the island, it was a lot for them to process his his excursions and extracurricular activities. But that was his way of copy. That was his way of navigating and processing through his feelings of grief from wanting to have some type of attachment or connection with someone because he has a bad that I think it reminded me of one of my favorites, Cranes in the Sky, where he was trying to sex it away. So you know, I think, to expand on your point, I don't even know that he was necessarily craving attachment. I think he just wanted to try to feel anything right like it. It felt like he was very much in a denial. I don't really want to deal with the fact that she's not here, and so I'm gonna throw myself into all of these, you know, different sexual relationships just to try to feel something or two really kind of numb the pain that I'm feeling from her laws. You bring up a good point because I imagine that this probably was the first big friend group thing that they had all done, probably since me it had passed, and so the idea that now they are all even gathering for this big you know, women's occasion without somebody who was so incredibly important in their circle. So what did they mean for all of them? But also in particular, what did you mean for land? Who are your thoughts, Cameron? I'm happy, he asked, Like I looked at that part of the series, and I was like, I totally understand grief, or I can understand like wanting to feel something, But then there was just like a subtle part of me that was a little like disappointed or like a little like okay, well, why does he have to grieve in such a way that a little bit of objectifying, not even a little like a lot of bit like especially when like Merch and I think it was Merching Harper, like walking on him in the hotel room. He's got like three different ladies, two different and I'm just like, jeez, like back to back to back to back to back. When you juxtapose like Mia and who she meant, what she meant to him to that depiction, it's a little cringing. So I will say I cringed at that part. I mean again, you know, gorgeous your explanation of it. You know, it makes sense. I can understand and I can sympathize with it. And I think like essentially, grief was a lot they played a lot until his role just within the series, even in connection to his son LJ. There was grief experience and that relationship dynamic to in regards to who he wanted his son to be, that identity of one in the past and like the legacy of football and you know, him following his father his footsteps and then that not being the case. So it was like he was getting hit with grief in different ways. So I think we should then switch gears to talk about that storyline. Right. I definitely wasn't expecting that, but I am glad that they included it because I do think it is I think the way that they included it is a typical what you would see in a black friend group, like of the most up different kinds of reactions. Right. So, we saw Jordan's being like the cool antoe, like I got your back if you need me to sit down and help you talk to your dad about this guy got you, Quentin trying to figure it out, but but mostly being very affirming, right, And it felt again like I think, an accurate depiction, and also like his dad not necessarily being on board in the beginning but eventually kind of coming around. What thoughts did you all have about the including of that storyline and how it was portrayed. I personally thought that they did it really well. And I'll say the reason why is because I was watching this with like my parents, and we both were exposed to the Best Man Like franchise different times, you know, and obviously we represent different generations as well. But like some of the like minor details depending upon who you are, like some of the minor details that they like addressed and they unpacked during that part. We're so well done to me, like for example, when Quentin was like struggling with the pronouns, like that part was hilarious to us in so many ways because it's like a very real part of our culture right now, like especially when you're like weighing the dynamic between like one generation and the other one. So we were just laughing at that being just the reality of the situation. But then too, like I was sort of like laughing at my parents, was like, y'all have a hard time. Like I loved the way that they analyze that, and then they brought that to the forefront, and I think that it made sense to utilize Lances character to be the person that went through that, especially when you consider all of the other kind of like you could say, maybe even toxic masculinity that was happening at the beginning of the series. Good point I agree with you is weel Cameron in regardless of lot how just the development was definitely hit on and point on. I think one part that really stood out was when we were on the group FaceTime hall and so it's like, this is the whole thing everybody is in the knowledge is well, don't you tell? Don't you tell him? And then the way he ends up finding out everybody's oh now he knows that he was the shocking in the disappointment because everyone knew but him. So it was kind of like, Okay, we tread the water of holding this because we feel like it gives LJ the chance to come up trying to tell his father, or do we show up as friends and you know, take this wrole. So it was kind of like seeing how they navigated that, because that's a real thing when it's very hurtful when everybody's gonna know about something and then you're not gonna know, and then you find out everyone knew. You could feel the trade, and so seeing kind of how that navigating and being such a significant thing when it comes to his son. I like how they displayed that. And I also like how blance met with Lj's friends parents and had that sit down so he could hear other parents experience. I think that showed a connection at a community. That's important, especially for parents who have children that are like the l g B t Q plus community and they're having challenges favoring out what this means for them. So to hear another parents experience and perspective and see how they are navigating it was really good to see, especially with another black family. I thought that was really good. More from our conversation after the break, I also loved how we saw a bit of the next generation of the circle in that LJ was so close to Quentin and Shelby's baby. It definitely reminded me of like my own friend group. A lot of us have kids at the same age, and so we're basically raising them as cousins, right, which is what this kind of felt like. That they had such a close connection, Like LJ clearly felt very comfortable being who they were with Quentin and Shelby's child, and so I really enjoyed that too and thought like, Okay, so we're also getting to see like how they are forming connections with one another in the week of the close relationships that their parents have with one another, And we saw some of that with Candice Emerchant children also, but it seemed like they were I think the ages are a little different, right, and so they weren't quite as close, but we definitely saw it between Quentin and Shelby child and LJ. I really appreciated how they paralleled lances perspective and position in both the original like Best Man and then the Best Man series where he's out of the loop, and then like if you paid attention to the previous movie, and like here he is again exposed to a son. Everybody knows about it, but he's out of the loop yet again. It just hearkens back to that feeling of oh my god, he's going to be a mess. We don't know, like how he's going to be able to navigate this. And I really appreciated that juxtaposition. I thought it was really well done. How did you feel about and I saw this? To me, it was one of the worst kept secrets, Like it was very clear that they were gonna have some kind of low connection between him and the sister from the resort at the end. So how did you all feel about her kind of being the you know, the love interests as we wrap up the series. I think for me that to Jolie was one of those things. It didn't make or break it. Like I didn't say I was like rooting for and he needed it, But I wasn't the gamest it. I wasn't opposed of it, especially because they hadn't introduced any other character that he seemed interested in throughout the rest of the series. So it's kind of like, okay, well, just to wrap things up, let's connect these to together. That's how I looked at it. I agree. I think that inevitably when you have like a series that has so much history and all of these relationships and bonds have been fostered and developed, and then you bring this other character, she's new, and it's not gonna be the same like level, Just to me, when you compare like the level of history that we have with all of the other characters, that felt a little rushed. We could take it a wee could leave it, especially when, like you know, she was engaged at the beginning and then later all of a sudden she's like free and like available. It just seemed a little I mean, I understand it's all make believe in it, but that felt forced a bit. So let's talk about my girl. Jordan's So I feel like I probably was most disappointed with where we saw her, right It definitely felt like she was stuck in some ways to me, in who she had been in the like the premiere of the movie. So I see y'all shaking your hands, so maybe you feel similarly. What were your thoughts about where we saw Jordan and how we saw her in the series. I agree with you back through joining the sense of her like seeming stuck not well, yeah, because she was very career driven and focused then and she was definitely there now, and it was still a heightened level to where it was practically she wasn't even putting herself in the care of herself first. Her assistant has to ask her like, do you like the self care? Which I think was a good highlight for her to stop and pay attention to that. She's just so driven on work, work, work, and it was concerned I had health issues and scared she was taking medication. There's a lot going on there. And in the sense of her like pursuing anything outside of her career, in the sense of relationship or just anything. It was just everything was driven towards work and outside of that, it was like when she realized, okay, well what else could life bring her half from me? She experienced a little bit about the light grief of missed opportunities to have a different life per se. I think Jordan's character is super complex. So just out of respect to the series and everything, I will say this, I like appreciated what Jordan represented from a mental health standpoint. I really do. Again, like I said, appreciate the fact that they brought up this concept of self care. I think to a generation of folks that like, we're still trying to get it together with self care and and you know, connecting it to her migraines. I felt like that was good, that was powerful and happy that they brought that to the forefront. I also think that Jordan had some wins, and I appreciated the relationship that Shelby and Jordan had from a career standpoint where she's putting her friend on and just because the people in the room, the people at the table didn't initially like Shelby on camera, they didn't like her story arc or whatever, Like Jordan didn't give up on her friend. I think that that's still a very very very important dynamic that people need to see. It's like more of that like a sister helping a sister out like that where I just fall off a little bit or I just felt a little bit like kind of rolled my eyes. Was that like the Harper Jordan's like saga still persists she don't need him, like she don't need that man, like she she is good, you know what I mean? And like I almost wonder what it would look like, especially as so much of like our audience, so much of the therapy for Black Girl's cohort just looking at women like who do not need to be with men? I almost like really kind of wanted to see what it would look like if she just that wasn't a part of the narrative anymore. And I get again like there's a legacy of that relationship that this and we have to kind of analyze it, but I think like three is the time to kind of investigate whether or not she can just be whole without that. Yeah, And I think that that's the part that felt stuck to me, Like it felt very much like like early two thousand's when I think was when we work kind of first having these conversations around can women have it all? Like black women especially right, And it felt like she was still very much in that, but sometimes it felt like, of course, like she used this like VP level at a NBC, but we also see her like is she interested in a significant relationship or is she not right? So we see the introduction of to me, he was Terry Silver because that's where I saw him lands in power, right. So I don't even know what the brother's name was in the show, Dmitri, thank you, thank you, Glad, just right, So we see the introduction of him, and so you know it's okay, are they gonna be serious? You know, he makes some significant efforts to try to like fit himself into her schedule, but then that doesn't work out, and so in some ways it kind of gave the impression that there was still like a part of her that was like holding a spot for Harper, right, because we see them kind of flirt with like, okay, are they going to try it again? Right? And so that to me, I think was very confusing and unnecessary, like to of course get it right, because as o G fans of The Best Man like Harper and Jordan, are they are good? Are they not? But I don't think it was necessary, Like I agree with you, Cameron, and I feel like she didn't to me feel as advanced as I think she could have for a three kind of character. So I think I was most disappointed, but huge love for me a long, right, So I will watch whatever she is in, but I would have loved, I think, to just see a little bit more character development there with her. I'll say this, I thought when she left her job, I felt like that was like her staying like I'm a man market the stands out. That was powerful. Just to see her turn away and be able to do that. We sometimes feel like as women when we reached a certain level, we have to hold that and it's like, no, I gotta stay up here because I'm gonna be the gatekeeper and bring other people one and other women. And she was just like, yeah, no, like nothing's enough. I have to choose me. So seeing her choose herself in that and walk away for of me, I think was very opening, in a good pivot. More from our conversation after the break, Okay, so we can round it out with Robin and Harper. So lots of lots of thoughts I think about them. So what were your feelings around like where we see Robin and Harper and their baby now in the series as opposed to you know he proposed at the end of the first movie, right, So we have now traveled with them through marriage and starting their family, different career moves. So what were your thoughts around where we saw them in this series. I think the biggest thing the word for Harper and Robin was communication. I think that was just like the breakdown, and I don't know that has been a theme and a lot of the concepts and storylines that I has been seeing and paying attention to, and you know, in the landscape right now is communication and communication is key. And just from my perspective, like I was really frustrated with Harper for not like listening to Robin in certain you know, situations and instances when she's talking about like the type of poem she wants and just other things like I was just like, man like, if only he could hear what we hear, you know what I mean? If they just fell out of communication with each other, And I think, like for it to be just that one thing makes it really sad. Had they only worked through that, like maybe they would have still been together. Maybe not. Yeah, I would just definitely attribute that whole entire relationship to just to lack of communication. I agree with you American, We're not feel like communication was a thing. But then also I feel like they developed and grou into two different people. So initially who we saw them being in the first best name like the data dynammate in that early mayor it it was like okay. In the second bastic Man the holiday, and but that was like okay, now I'm growing in this direction, which was for Robbing and Harper was growing in this direction. And so like when you mentioned the communication, I don't think that they had that foundation to say when the two of them were growing and how it would impact the other person or what support would look like in each growth direction, and that made both of them made me feel like one is not following up or supporting the other. As well as when they went to therapy, I feel like that was a huge thing and I'm glad that they showed them in therapy. The therapist highlighted how Robbing had a lot of things in her head that she thought she said that she never said, and in that no one can be a mind reader, and so that really played a huge this advantage for Harper and being able to show up for her and how she needed to be supported or feel seen. There was an element to Harper's character that was so frustrating to me, which was like it was a lot of self importance. I mean, obviously, the entire like series, the whole thing is built off of like this book and then this book that is going to become a movie. Oh my god. But at a certain point, I was like, Harper, get over yourself. Get over yourself. And to your point Gordon's, I was wondering if, like, yeah, he did change into a different person, but did he change so much that he became a person that can't listen to someone. It's like not in tune with another human being, someone that he's been with for so long. That's where I ultimately like ended up. And so that's also just to kind of tie it back to Jordan's, I was like, yeah, it definitely doesn't make sense for him to then go over here. There's like a an insecurity there, Like it's just like a self importance there that he needs to like work through before he goes to any of these characters that we like have developed this connection to any relationship that he goes to, now, it's not gonna work. At least That's how I felt with Harper at the end of the day. I did think the scene where like all of his boys come in there and support him I loved that. That was probably one of my favorite scenes, despite my feelings for Harper towards the end, because it was like, no matter how like down bad you are, like, at least you have your boys, at least you have your support system, at least you have your community. But still I was like, dang, he just cannot get over himself in a way, you know, Camon, I would argue that self importance really has been there with Harper since the first Best Man. So when I hear you say did he change that much? Like, I feel like Harper is who Harper has always been, and I feel like, yes, communication definitely was a big issue between Harper and Robin, and I agree with you, Gorge, just like I loved seeing the snippets of therapy, and because I think that is very a real right, like when you are with your partner and like you are imagining like that you have said this thing and that they know this thing, and then the therapist actually like what have you said? Then this will know duh, So they don't know, right, So I thought that was a very realistic picture. But I also feel like Harper and Robin probably never should have gotten together because in some ways as I look back on like the original Best Man and then where we saw Robbin in the final chapters, it always feels like she has been on the outside of the circle, right, and so even in a way that like Candice and Shelby did not like they to me felt very much like they were in the circle, whereas Robin always felt to me a more peripheral character. So in the first Best Man, you know, we kind of see her kind of she comes to the wedding later, right, so after all this drama has gone on, and like she is trying to pull Harper together, like Okay, you gotta fix it kind of thing. So she's on the outskirts there, and then even in the final chapters, we see her kind of being the one like at the house with the other kids while everybody else is out looking for LJ. And to me, she has always felt like a supporting character as opposed to like this is Harper, Like Harper is like almost central to the circle, but his partner feels outside in a way that I don't think she should be because of who Harper is, right, and so I also think that they probably shouldn't have gotten together because it doesn't feel like he has ever really like gotten over this thing with Jordan's right, And so in a lot of ways, Robbin it always felt was like a second place. And even though I'm sure day to day it didn't feel that way, like in the moments that counted, it always felt like there was an opening for Jordan's. I can't imagine in my own relationship like feeling like I was not like the first choice, right, I feel like that would take a toll on me. So I don't know. We didn't hear a lot of that with Robin, but in a lot of ways it felt like that played out any thoughts they are about, like, okay, should they even have been together in the first place? You really hit the nail on the head with that one, because if you think about it, essentially she was kind of like third because Mia. He was in a dynamic with Mia, then it was this dynamic with Jordan's and then it was her. So really what space because she had in the inner circle when Harper had already had engagements and you know, dynamics with the people within the circle. So it's like she didn't really send a chance to have a space designated for her like candidates and Shelby because of his doings with the Inner Circle, within the foundation of the circle. Good point. So it's like her name and outsider. That's the only space I feel like she could have had for some sense of normalcy. And this is why I love creatives, because both of y'all said outsiders, Like she was outsider, she was on the outskirts. And then she goes abroad with her daughter, with her baby, and she led her is outside of it. She's as far as away as she possibly can be. And so I think that like part of that was very intentional on behalf of the writers to kind of like make us feel that way, because I felt the same way. It's just like there's something out of place about Robbin's character. Can't really pinpoint what it is. Are they supposed to be together, and like you're questioning that the whole time, and then eventually like just culminates in her just saying deucees and leaving. Okay, So let's talk about that, because that I think was a lot of the conversation that I saw in our community and even otherwise on social was her making the decision to move to South Africa and take the baby, and we saw his friend group, which I was a little surprised by, honestly rarely around her making this decision right and telling him like, stop being selfish for once, and you know, like this kind of thing. So did y'all agree or not with her decision to move and take a little meal with her? I thought it was a trump card for sure, and I'd feel like it could have gone either way. I know that's sort of a cop out answer, but I think for where their story ultimately ended, I think that I understand the choice that the writers made to have the baby go with her, because it does it marks this time, in this stage where Harper has to be unselfish, he has to think of like other people outside of himself. And I'm happy that it ultimately happened that way because I think that if it happened the other way and he got to keep their daughter in the States with him, then I think all of us would be like, Okay, well did you learn anything? Whether or not I agree that she should have like ultimately in real world, in the real life, I'm not sure I understand why that is a point of contention. For sure. I think from a for rental as that as well as from a co parents Incazack paren we call parents. Oh. I think that was a hard one, especially in the sense of kind of impactful it was for him and for the both of them. I think that she was very driven on what this experience meant for her and what it looked like for their daughter, especially when they went over and visited for the summer and they had a good time and all of that. But in a sense of just the shift, I think that it could have been played out differently. I would have wanted it to look more cohesive, with them coming together in agreement, but again, you know, sometimes it don't happen that way, So I'm indifferent. I have feelings on both ends. Also say that, like to counter what I was saying earlier that I think typically, or the majority of the time, we do see the situation where the mom wins out and ends up taking custody or ends up being the like soule provider or the same other. So I feel like they perpetuated that narrative just a little bit. But again, in this particular case, I supported because of some of the stuff that Harper's character needed and some of the ways that Harper's character needed to develop so I did not like, I did not like that angle at all, and I agree with you Cameron, like it definitely was the big joker, right, this was the Okay, I finally am doing something for myself, like I am going completely against anybody I have ever been in this relationship with this person. I thought that was harsh though, like you gorgeous, if that became the ultimate decision, I would have preferred to see some conversation about like this is what I want to do, you know, this kind of thing, and like for them to arrive to that decision together as opposed to her kind of taking the baby and like, okay, you just gotta deal with it, right, and so you know, it wasn't as if he was an uninvolved father. So I thought that was drastic. And like I said, it was very surprised to see the way that the friend group rallied around her like that to me didn't feel in character with who they had been to harbor before. So it kind of felt like everybody was taking me aside. But also maybe it just felt bad for her, right because like he has been so ridiculous the whole relationship, right, So I could also see why people felt like Okay, yeah, you know, like, hey, let her have this round. But to me, that felt very drastic. To move the child to a whole different continent without some discussion and for him to just kind of find out in that meeting, that felt very drastic to me. I also think that models though a lot of real life experiences where that happened in the sense of, like, can we mentioned that Trump card? And so that probably connected with a lot of people's narratives while going through divorces or separations with families and children's where there's one parent that just comes in and blindside you essentially, and then what do you do? How do you deal with that? So what are your feelings about where we have left off? So do you feel settled? In complete? So this is called the final chapter, So I do not think we're getting anymore. So do y'all feel complete with where we have left off with these beloved characters for everyone but Harper and Jordan. I do I think that they've like sort of let the door open with Jordan's character specifically, at least I want to hope so, because like again, like part of me wants to see her have it all, Like is she really just going to beat this boss lady that isn't ever complete romantically or at least feeling complete. So like even if she's a single woman like tie that up for us, she's happy, right, she feels whole right, or if she's with someone. For me, as it stands right now, theyre always will be that question of whether, like Jordan's ever got what she deserves as a human being, and that is just like wholeness and peace. I think for me, I'm okay with how it ended where the storylines ended for everyone because I think essentially it allows you to just accept who they are and the storyline is an accept kind of where the story all in place for them individually, and sometimes we want that closure, but we don't always get it. So it's like having to accept that and just see it for what it is like for your case, I point and Cameron, maybe we can envision, you know, Jordan's outcome could look like this, because look like this, it could be this, and maybe them leaving them open like that, it's for there to be like this whole. There is no perfect ending. Whatever the ending is is what it could be. And then for harperre he just his own care. I think again, the development of him and having to grow and continuing to grow. It's that's kind of where they left off for me, for him, but I think everybody else storyline was ended and wrapped up. Well, yeah, I would agree. I feel complete with where we left soft Like I don't feel like, oh, I would love to hear a teen year reunion kind of thing. Like I feel like if we don't see these characters in this iteration anymore, that I feel good about where we kind of closed the door with them. So I agree with you both there, All right, y'all, well, thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts with me. We will have to come back when we find a new favorite show to kind of deep dive into and discuss. Do you want to share your social media handles for anybody who wants to follow you or keep up with whatever you have going on? Sure? I am on Instagram at Cameron and Taylor. I am on Instagram as well, fixing the Fixer Perfect. We'll be sure to include that in the show notes. Thank you all again for joining me today, Thanks for having us, Thank you. Shout out to Cameron and Gorgeous for sharing their incredible insight on this iconic and everlasting franchise. To learn more about them and their work, visit our show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash best Man final chapters and don't forget to Texas episode to two of your girls who you know enjoyed the franchise as well. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. This episode was produced by Freda Lucas and Elise Ellis and editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank you all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continue with this conversation with you all real soon. Take get care