BONUS: Saying Goodbye to This Is Us

Published Jun 3, 2022, 7:00 AM

The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

Last week marked the series finale of This Is Us. After 6 seasons, we’ve said goodbye to the Pearsons. Joining me again this week to say goodbye to one of our favorite show is Beverly Andre. Beverley is a Licensed Marriage and Family therapist, relationship coach, and the founder of BeHeart Counseling Services. She and I chatted about our expectations for this season, some of our favorite Beth & Randall moments, and the absolute beauty of The Train episode. 

Resources

Visit our Amazon Store for all the books mentioned on the podcast!

Check out Beverley on Session 193 of the podcast discussing Married At First Sight & This Is Us.

Check out Beverley on Session 208 of the podcast discussing the Season 12 finale of Married At First Sight.

Check out Beverley on Session 251 of the podcast discussing Season 2 of Love Is Blind. 

 

Where to Find Beverley

http://www.beverleyandre.com  

http://www.beheartcounseling.com 

Facebook: @BeverleyAndreLMFT

Instagram: @BeverleyAndre_

Twitter: @BeverleyAndre_

 

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Take the info from the podcast to the next level by joining us in the Therapy for Black Girls Sister Circle community.therapyforblackgirls.com

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Our Production Team

Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard

Producers: Fredia Lucas, Ellice Ellis, & Cindy Okereke

 

Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for a special bonus episode of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into the conversation after a word from our sponsors. Last week marked the series finale of This Is Us. After six seasons, we've said goodbye to the Pearsons. Y'all know This Is Us has been a TBG favorite, so we had to have one last convo to talk through our thoughts about this season and the finale. Joining me again this week is Beverly Andre. Beverly is a licensed marriage and family therapist, relationship coach, and the founder of b Heart counseling services. She and I chatted about our expectations for this season some of our favorite Beth and Randall moments in the Absolute Beauty of the Train episode. If you have thoughts you'd like to share about the season, please share them with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in session or join us over in the Sister Circle. To continue the conversation, you can join us at community that Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for being back with us today, Beverly, Thank you for inviting me. I think I am now able to talk about my grief. Right. So, it feels like we could not let this is Us go without a proper goodbye. They've given us plenty of warning. This is the last season. It's coming. We know it's going to be difficult. I feel like they tried to prepare us, and I feel like with all of that, it's still which is very difficult. I was crying like I had a loved one guy. It was wild. It was wild. So what do you think Because I've seen lots of people like just have very strong connections to the show, right, and you know, some people it's funny people have talked about like not watching it, but just seeing folks talk on the timeline every week about crying, and so they don't even know what it's about, but they know people have been reacting strongly. So what do you think for you? Was like the strong connection to This is Us and why it has been so difficult for the season to wrap up in the show, to rep up This Is Us felt effortless. It felt like you went to dinner and then you overheard a couple talking about their family, or you know, it just felt like it was a part of my life, Like it wasn't anything that felt like it was out of touch. I felt that anybody who watched the show that it touched on some aspect of their life at some point, whether you had your kids are growing up and you're trying to figure out how to I navigate these conversations with my kids, whether or not your parent who has adopted a child, maybe adopted a child of a different ethnicity, racial background, talking to your kids about relationships, what to look out for in a partner. I literally feel like anybody who's anybody can watch this show, no matter socio economic status, no matter racial I think background, It literally could be for everybody, and I think that's what made the difference. It wasn't like, yeah, this is a black show, black culture all the way. I mean, some people will say this is us as because you know Beth and Randall, but it literally felt like for everyone. And I think that's a testament to Dan Folgerman in his writer's room, Like his writer's room literally had everybody under the sun, you know what I mean. And I think when you are intentional about who you have on your staff writing these shows, you're able to capture as much as a person's experience as possible because all perspectives are represented. Yeah. I like the idea of the word do you use effortless because it definitely felt like nothing was really heavy handed ever in the show, right, And so it it just feels like they were able to strike such a perfect chord for all of the different storylines, and like you mentioned, like so many different themes. I mean we've cot did you know, at least twice here on the podcast, right, Like just so many beautiful themes they pulled out, and even the caregiver theme, right, you know, I think in later seasons and you know, of course they teased it in earlier seasons, but definitely this season, we've seen a lot about what it looks like to be a caregiver and what it looks like between siblings and even for the person being cared for. So I just really feel like no stone was unturned. And you're right. I think the diversity in the writer's room really added to what we all fell in love with about This Is Us, Like you can see the intentionality, like in the details from the costumes to like Mandy Moore when things in her hands, the care that goes into what's being said, how it's being said, or let this be a silent moment. It was just so intentional from start to finish. I remember hearing that he had that in in mind, like from Thening with a Lot episode. All of those scenes were recorded like early on in the series, so it's like when you know how things are going to finish, it's like you can be very intentional, like, Okay, this is my north star, this is how it's going to end. Now how do we get there in a very careful and strategic way? And I just I saw it. Yeah, they did that, they did it, They did Yes, So what were your expectations coming into this last season, because again, you know, I think it's very difficult. In some way, it's more difficult. In some way, it's easier, like when you know a series he is wrapping up, because we don't always know, right, like sometimes the series just doesn't get renewed and we don't have any like closure for the characters. But in this case, we did right Like he like you mentioned, always knew it was gonna be six seasons. They knew how it was gonna end from the beginning, so they were able to craft the narrative going towards that way. But even though we knew that, what expectations did you come into this last season with? I was honestly in denial, Like this series started when I was in grad school to be a therapist two thousand sixteen. It was like going into my senior year, and I moved into my apartment by myself because my roommate had left, and so I would literally, as like a religious routine every Tuesday. I knew I was watching this as us like that was the one time I made sure I could just not focus on school and just like lose myself into this and Queen Sugar as well. That was Wednesdays, and so it was kind of like, wow, I didn't really realize it's been that long since the series has been going, and I just never thought that it was going to end so quickly. I thought that this is like you know, grazing. IY got a lot gracing that at me, like I'm a girl up these characters because there's so many different pathways that it can take. So I was in denial and I think that there's been so many let downs with awesome series. And then you said up finale and it's just like what I invested my time and y'all just left me like a Game of Thrones. So I'm just like, not said I was skeptic, but I was really curious, like how are we going to end? And I think that there was no way for me to have conceptualized this is how this season was gonna go. There was no way. I if I had a thought, it would have been completely opposite of what actually happened. Yeah, so what were you surprised about? Because it sometimes feels hard for me to remember like what happened? What season right? And it did feel like for some reason, this season felt longer, but it also could have been because I was anxious about like the last one, and so I didn't want it to end. But it definitely felt like in some ways this season was quieter. I didn't feel like there was like as much action in a lot of ways like that we've seen in some of the previous seasons, but clearly very impactful. We definitely will get into like the train ride, which is the penultimate before the series finalie, but I think I was both shot by the situation with Toby and Kate and so I feel like they've teased that in previous seasons and when we saw that preview of little Jack early on like being grown up in with his own wife and child, but we didn't quite know like what surrounded it, and then of course we saw what that was this season. But I think that was the thing that I was most shocked about this season, was like the relationship between Kate and Toby ending up the way that it did. Yeah, I think Kate and Toby, like I think with Beth and Randall, they had kind of teased I think last season that oh did they break up? Because it was kind of like wherever they said, oh, they're together, And I think some folks had some expectancy that that was gonna be the same thing, but was like, oh no, like they actually broke up, and oh no, like she remarried with Philip, and oh no, he found somebody else. So it wasn't a surprise to me necessarily, But I didn't think that they were not actually get divorced. I didn't think so. But I appreciated the storyline because what you see on mainstream media about divorce it is nasty, it's combative, and you see like the couple sitting across from each other at the table, as opposed to here are all the little things in the daily lives of couples that can lead to the dissolution of the marriage. Right when they had the San Diego trip, and how they're this on two opposite pages, making assumptions about what the other person is saying, not communicating like that becomes a pattern of behavior. And then when that becomes a pattern of behavior, it's so easy to feel like your partner is your adversary instead of your ally. And I think that they got caught up in that pattern and it just became a way of life for them. It became how they started to communicate in their marriage, and I like how it was the little things because people get so caught up in it. Was it or was it anything like that? Like, No, there's people who actually do in their marriages because they are no longer in sync with each other. They are no longer growing and accepting and loving that the person that they're with or someone is not showing up fully in their relationship because they may not feel like they have the space to do so. So while I wasn't surprised that they got divorced necessarily, I was surprised at how they showed it. And even when they had the table scene and then after they came down and they just had that laugh because they pay Whitney. It was Whitney called that rest and peace because that's my girl there in the elevator. And then we think that's gonna be the moment where like, okay, they're good, they go to the opposite size, but like they come back and then she's like, well, you know what, it's gonna all make sense later, We're gonna be good and he's like, no, it's never you know, Like it captures the reality of some people feel like there is no silver lining when they comes to the end of the marriage, but then you see later on they are able to create that friendship. They are able, you know, years removed, to compare in a healthy way. So that surprised me as opposed to why they ended. Mm hmmm, yeah, and you know, I'm listening to you talk. Also very aware that they showed them doing a couples therapy, right, and so speaking to the point that we often hear about couples waiting individuals too, but couples in particular waiting way too long before they like start therapy, right, And it isn't always this, Yeah, it isn't always this like somebody cheated, something big happened. A lot of times it is like these little resentments that have never gone addressed, and then we can't have a conversation about like anything without some of that other stuff now filtering our decision making. And we're angry, but we're not really angry about the thing that we're talking about, right. So I thought that that was interesting too, that they did show them doing a couple of therapy, even though clearly it wasn't effective in terms of keeping their marriage together. But I do think they were probably able to get a lot more on the table than those sessions than they had been by themselves. That was real because it does take couples six or seven years before they actually if they decide to even seek helping. It takes about that long into a relationship. And that depiction a couple of therapy. I loved it. I loved it. I was like, oh, the barbs, the jobs. It can get intent because these are stored up conversations that have not been happening in the past six seven years. Like this is gonna sound crazy, but I had a couple and she was just like, I don't understand why all this is coming out now. And I have said since let me tell you something. You know, when you get your hair braided right and you take out your braids and all your hair is just coming out, but it's not coming out a little by little. It's a whole bunch coming out because every single day our hair sheds, but you have it in this style that's preventing it from chatting. So not that you're taking your brains out. It seems like a lot, but it's something that would have been came out had it been done over a period of time. And she was just like, bab you're crazy because I've never heard that metaphor before, but it makes so much sense. I'm just like, that's what it is now. You may not have had the language. You may not have realized what was happening or what was going on for you to be even able to relate it. Y'all may not have felt like y'all had enough emotional intimacy to talk this out. You may not have had the strategy, like the skill set to figure out how to navigate this conversation without it blowing up. And then you go your way, I go my way. There's all different reasons, but at the end of the day, you're here. And I think that Toby at one point was desperate. You saw him like, kay, please, please, let's just make this work. And that happens. Yeah, she was already checked out. It's eamed by then this say was gone. She she was gone. And I think that there were several moments had they been able to see professional help or have conversations about it before, they would have still been married. In my opinion, So it is what it is. But I can appreciate that they needed to go through that divorce because I feel like there's so many people who may not see divorce as a failure anymore m as opposed to what we all believe, oh the marriage and it's a failure that there's still life, there's still relationships that can be developed on the other side of it. It's not a divorce. It just wasn't meant to be. So you have talked a little bit about Beth and Randall, and I know when you've been on the podcast before talking about This is Us. We you know, both have a love affair with Beth and Randall because I feel like they just had such a cool dynamic and it was really cool to see the way they were shown on camera. So I also feel like though This Is Us did one of the best jobs of showing just like black life, like regular just everyday life. And so I love to hear maybe some of your favorite scenes from Beth and Randall or some of the things that you remember most about, like their time on This Is Us. My favorite scenes have to be the worst case scenario moments. For me. That's a testament of emotional security. Let's talk about the worst things that can happen with either ourselves or within our family. Let's put it out on that table. And a lot of times like who actively leans into the things that are uncomfortable or not desirable, you know what I mean. I love their friendships, whether they're able to just talk or they know each other. I think sometimes Randall feels like Beth doesn't know as much or doesn't catch things. I'm like, man, what are you talking about? She been knew the Asia was pregnant, like all the things. I think sometimes he still gets surpris eyes by his partner, which I think is lovely too, because yes, you may know your partner, but you will not always know the whole person. There's still space for you know, surprise and mystery. And so I think just seeing a regular Schmeler black couple who like to hang with each other, who have an awesome friendship, who are into each other sexual intimacy, like they love each other, they like each other, and even during the hard things, like they they know what each other needs. She's like, oh, Philip, Sophie, we need to go because this is gonna happen, This was gonna like this, what's gonna happen? We need to get them space kind of what my husband is gonna go do. That's emotional intelligence right there, you know what your partner needs. I love them. I love them because we don't have enough depiction of black couples on the screen that's not toxic, that's not overly dramatic, or you know, I like regular black loooves Okay, that that that that's that's what I like. And and I love the fact that it was just them mm hmmm. Yeah. And adding to your point around like the emotional intelligence, you know, I mean, we definitely saw Randall in therapy I think at least a couple of times throughout the show, but I don't know that we ever saw Beth talking to anyone. But it's clear that they like are versed in like emotions and like being able to support each other in what they each need in any given moment. I personally love the episode that we talked about before where he went home to Louis Diana like that. I think it's still one of my favorite favorite episodes. But I also really loved all of the episodes where we got to see more of beaths backstory, so her love with dancing and like her dynamic with her family. I thought, we're also just really beautiful. So I'm still keeping my fingers crossed I know Dan Folkelman has said there won't be any spin offs or maybe maybe not, but I think they're not necessarily planning and the spin offs, but if there were one, that's the one I would want to see, is it's been off with Beth and Randall in their family, because I just feel like there's just so much more to kind of explore. You know, they kind of teased he may be looking at like a presidential run at the end of the series, and so, you know, I would love not necessarily like a White House kind of drama, not dead, but like just you know, again keeping with the regular life theme and just seeing all the years that we didn't get to see on the show, Like what did the girls, what were they like growing up? And how are they growing into being grandparents, like all of those kinds of things WILLIAF. I know that we're gonna get into that, but I just think about the theme of legacy and nothing else surprising happened. I think the Miguel episode was the one that surprised me. It took me out. I felt like I had to go confess my sins for how I thought about this man. I'm a daughter of immigrants and I'm thinking about just the process of him coming from Puerto Rico and you know, assimilating into society and working through the prejudice and all of that, but just the idea of seeing his parents interact, seeing his mother take care of his sister, and then how that enabled him to take care of Rebecca with honor. Like people talk about Beth and Jack and I think about how Rebecca was to Jack what Miguel was to Rebecca, Like she got to flourish and be this person because Miguel was able to hold her down in all aspects. And I think she knew that because she was just like, you didn't get the best version of me, Jackson, And I think the version that she was was fueled because of Miguel's intentionality of taking care of her, and then just seeing how the kids were watching him take care of their mother like he was. His hip was messed up, he was hurting, but he was still getting up. So when I just think about the legacy from this show of how it captures love, how it captures intentionally showing up for family and for your romantic partner, that was everything. So that's how when we get to that last episode, I felt like I was able to exhale because I'm like, the characters have all said and did everything that they needed to do with Rebecca before the funeral, So you know, not hearing what they were seeing was of no consequence to me. But losing a parent and you're standing up to talk about set parents right in front of you in a casket, You're not remembering what you write. You have no idea what the heck you just said unless you wrote it down beforehand. So I think everything that needed to be said, how they connected themselves throughout this entire series was a testament to love, family, intentionality and showing up like her, I know what job bills on you at the funeral of yourself, A job will do, serve it well with my soul. More from my conversation with Beverly after the break. Yeah, so I also love the Miguel episode. I get I think why they saved it the way that they did, because you know, it really does feel like throughout the way the series developed, we did not know a lot about Miguel, Like I don't remember before the Miguel episode ever even knowing how they got together. Had they shared that before? No, everybody assumed that he swooped in and was just like, what's up? I would have been out right, See, I don't think I assumed that. I think I assumed that it was like a more like earnest kind of a thing. But we didn't know. Right when y'all left us kind of making up our own stories about like what was going on with Miguel, it was just like, how could you do that to Rebecca? You know, Rebecca is grieving, she had those three kids to raise. You know, she's in a bad place. You know you're evil because I ain't nobody You're gonna blame the grieving widow her and then my jew she was the one who was like, what's up? Miguel like gifts at first, made the moves and was some I'm just like okay. That was the only way to end this season when people not hitting Miguel was Rebecca initiating things first, right, So they gave us the full story, and you know, it was just so beautiful. I think to have so much more of his story, to find out more about who he was, because again to your point, I do think he very much was like he was a very four ground character, but his story was in the bad ground, right, So you saw him in a lot of the episodes, even this season, but you still didn't know a lot about him besides like him taking care of Rebecca and that he was Jack's best friend when they were younger. So I thought it was beautiful the way that they shared that. I just wish we had gotten that earlier, so that, you know, we could have had a better appreciation of who Miguel was and like his history and you know, the things that led him to be who he was. They did that on purpose, they did, of course they did. And I feels like, Okay, y'all pull the oaky dogs on us, and you know what, I like the fact that they didn't, because I also think that that challenge you and your beliefs. Stop making assumptions about people unless you know the thing. Stop assuming because there's so many layers to people, just like who we work with, who we are around. We don't know what they've been through. We only know who we see in front of us, and they are not the totality of what we see. They and not the sociality of what we see, and they deserved additional consideration versus like you're just a necessary to that person. Because that's what he was. That's Rebecca's second husband. M Yeah, yeah. And I do feel like even when they showed him getting much older and both of them getting much older and him like taking such good care of her, I think the kids, of course loved Miguel, but I think it really wasn't until they saw the way that he was taking care of her that they reached an even deeper appreciation for like who he was and how he had been like so important in her life. I feel like they tolerated him. I feel first of all, Kevin and not like that. Man. Well no, Kevin definitely did not, But I definitely feel like Randall and Kate had a different, like a more loving relationship with him like that. Man, I feel like the other kids is like, okay, it's Miguel. They tolerated him. And I say that to say when it came to Rebecca and her care and different things like that, you saw when it was like move, you're not a factor, all right, we tolerate you. Uko people when it comes to serious things like oh and it was literally up to her back and be like, no, that's my husband. He's going to make the decisions. He's going to be the person who's going to, you know, do all the things, and if he's not here to make it, then it'll be okay. But what you call it wasn't respecting that, and I think probably anxiety. He wanted to know all of the things that make all the decisions. But I think that Miguel definitely tried to have a relationship with them more than just I'm your mother's husband. But I think it was like, Okay, you're here, we're cool, but when it comes to serious things, you have no state, no input. Mm hmmm. That's a good point. You're right. I completely agree with it now that you point that out. So I definitely want to make sure we have time to get into this train episode because it was such a big one. So it was not the final episode. It was the episode before the very last one, but I feel like in a lot of ways it was the last one, right, So it was when we see Rebecca at the end of the train episode is when she actually passes, right. But the whole episode is like characterized as this train ride between life and death basically, and she's on the train, going through the different cars, confronting and having these last words with everybody. Who has been impactful throughout her life, which I thought was such a beautiful metaphor, and like, it was so cool to see it on screen because I feel like you could really see it right, like you could see her going from cars to car and then saying like, Okay, it's time, we got to move on to the next one. I just thought that it was so beautiful. I don't know that I've seen death captured in that way on screen before. And I'm saying, again, emotions seeing about that episode, I see you because I honestly, I really that is a gift. To leave this world in that way is a gift. To have lived a long life, to be surrounded by your family, to metaphorically say goodbye to everyone, or to have that conscious thought about wow, like my life in review, that is a gift. And that episode came at a time, I think, because my birthday was last week, and so since that episode, I've been really thinking about like life and my life and reviews so far. And I think that's what's amazing about that episode is because you literally have the ability to stop and just think and reflect who would be on my train, who are the people that impact me or who have impacted me how fast that I've been moving through the cards, you know what I mean, Like it felt so men sure, the way that she was just walking through and then like from the doctor and still the nuggets that they're giving like you know what, you did a good job, Like we did this together. I think William has said that, like, no, we did okay. So that's what broke me down. When William was the guy, right, So when it was clear that like he was going to be the one like ushering her through these cars, that's when I lost it because I just thought that that was so beautiful because it felt like it was really important, right, Like I feel like they had such a cool relationship that wasn't always very like loud, but I think in a lot of ways was very important for the both of them. I just thought that that was beautiful that he was her guide on this train because he's been down that path, you know. And I know that Jack obviously died before William, but I feel that she needed someone to walk with her, to leave her back to him, you know. And it couldn't have been Miguel. That would have been awkward, like someone that she had such a deep relay because he was a co parent. He co parented as well. I think about the episode when they went to New York and she was telling them about like, you know, I always want to go to the met to look at the painting because his painting really stuck out to her, and you know, I wanted to take this train right with my dad. And in that episode where she couldn't remember Caboose and then to know that that was where she was going and she finally remembered it, and then Kate was there and her hearing the voices of her kids listening to Oh my gosh, Bet, whoa Beth? Beth? Beth Beth. This woman was just like I was literally trying to be just like you. You can see it. You can see it how she shows up with Rando and the girls, you can see it. You never really saw Beth and Rebecca have such an intimate conversation. He though she wasn't saying anything, Rebecca was the same thing she was. She was just listening. That's the most intimate I've ever heard Beft talk too Rebecca, and I just felt like, this woman has no idea what example she is to other people? Meanwim the whole time she's doubting her ability as a mom, doubting her ability as a wife, second guessing how she shows up feeling like she's messing up with Kate left and right, not knowing that you are literally a gold standard for someone else, for another mother. And I think that was just amazing because I think that is very true for women, that you look at a woman and he's like, Wow, she is just everything, all that and some and in her mind she's just like thinking about all the things that she's not doing well. I think that's why it's so important too, especially from woman to woman, to share Oh girl, I love that about you, or oh look how you are. I just love that outfit because sometimes we don't see it, we don't think it for ourselves, we don't think for ourselves. Other people see it, but we're just seeing all the reasons why we're not, you know. I just love the fact that they had that moment and so waiting for Kate. Listen, Kate. Kate didn't get off that play. It was the run across the yard for me, run across the yard, the hand grip when she met Jack and then she gripped Randall's hand at the same time and I was like, oh Jesus, my heart, it was so much. It was such a moving episode. It was so moving more from my conversation with Beverly after the break, and I think a lot of people coming off of that episode and then looking at the final episode, it felt like, but we got all this lest week and this felt so quiet. And I agree, but I feel like it would have been hard. There was no way they could have matched the energy of the Trained episode with the final episode, and so hearing them talk about how they wanted it to just be like a regular day, right, like one of those days that you maybe remember later, but it's just like a quiet day, and when it's happening, it doesn't feel like it's a lot, but like you look back in your memory and you realize, like, oh, that was a very important day, and like the kids still have memories and how the things that happened on what looked like a regular day shaped who they became. Right, So I get why they felt that way, but I do think that there wasn't a way to also match the energy of the Train episode. Like I don't think they had a choice but to make it more quiet, right. Some people were like I wished the trained episode was the last episode, and I was just like, it wouldn't feel right. This show has never felt like I'm gonna leave you emotionally disregulated and bounce, and I had that happened, that's what it would have been. Like, Yeah, we have still been over crying about crying, and then it's just like we got to have closure, like Dan said, get all your feelings out. And then the day after the funeral, life continues on what is the president? And even when Kate talking about I feel like we're gonna drift apart? How many families don't have that conversation when that anchor person is gone? What is the matriarch? The patriarch and the family they are gone, and he's like, well, who else is gonna organize the cookout? Where are we going to do Christmas? Those traditions that the family connects with that it's usually one person or one family that organizes it. And so when she said that, I was just like, these are the conversations that people need to be having posts pre impost the passing of a loved one. You know what if you dress well, that may happen, but we're gonna drift with you. We're gonna follow you. We're gonna be intentional about connecting. And I appreciate it that being the ending, because now how they are in control of how their family moved forward. Their parents are gone. They did all that they could, and now what are we gonna do with what they taught us? Thanksgiving? Where are we doing Thanksgiving? We're gonna come back to the cabin, right, yep. And that's why I love the fact that they ended the show that they ended because life continues. The show won't here, but life will continue. It sounds like Dan did a lot of interviews leading up to this last episode, and you know, it sounds like that was his intention. And I also think he had recently lost his mother, I think at some point during one of the seasons, So I think that this he started writing the show after his mother passed, So I'm sure that that was also a part of the framing, right, and you know, thinking about like what that was like for him and his family. But I agree with you. I think a lot of what every season and a lot of the episodes of This Is Us really just gave us opportunities to have these conversations. And I realized, right, like how many conversations don't we have, but and we have an on screen depiction of what happens when we don't right or what can happen if we do so. I thought that that was one of the beautiful gifts of many that they offered us from this as Us show that keeps on giving. M So, what are your thoughts about, like the progression we saw between the Big Three and of the Big Three throughout the seasons and wrapping up with the finale, what kinds of growth and things did you see from the Big Three? I didn't, number one thing, allow the person who is to be like I don't think until later on that they didn't really allow each other to be who they were in present time. Reno still had a thought about his siblings being teenagers, irresponsible, not know what they're doing, not taking initiative, him stepping up right. keV definitely saw Randall as you are their favorite son, and you're the one who feels like you have to do everything. I the mess up right, Kate, I'm not qualified to say anything my brother as an actor. This guy's a financial guy now he's in the government. All of that, right, and they held onto these ideas of what they knew of each other, instead of recognizing who they were in that moment and being accepted for who they were. And I think once they did that, they were able to tap into each other's strengths. They were able to identify the strengths versus well, you've always been this way. And I think, especially in siblings groups, that it's so easy to be like, you know what, my brother has always been this person. Yeah, my sister I was gonna be like this, And when you say always, you no longer have grace for that person. And not to say that you have to have an opinion about their growth, the speed of growth or anything like that, but allow them to be who they are today versus them against who they were. And I think that was the biggest growth because once they did that, you saw Kate being able to say, Hey, you guys aren't seeing mom. You're still thinking about my way back when talking about oh she was magic. She's still here. She's still giving you guys his lessons. You know, she may be in a different time frame in her mind, but she's able to talk to Sophie and how that affected Sophie, you know, you know, now considering being with Kevin, that was different. The gift of Rebecca singing that song you want to talk about emotional. I don't almost forgotten about that. They gave us so much this season. I have forgotten, right, the way singing has been a crucial element in both Rebecca's life and Kate's life, and then knowing that she was able to give that gifts. First of all, I love the theme song, so when I put the lyrics, I mean, it's on my It's on my iTunes because that right there, many more did that. So the way that people see each other can either place limits or it can expand possibilities. And that's what happened with the siblings. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you, And I loved by the end how they were each able to kind of be their own people, right, And I think we saw that a lot in the conversations around caretaking, you know, because I think a lot of who they were as a child then impacted what they felt like they need to do as a caretaker. Right, So Kevin feeling like he was the mess up as a kid and now feeling like he wanted to like make up for some of that in caretaking for mom. But then random feeling like, but you actually haven't been responsible, so why would we let you be the one who makes these decisions? Right? And it feels like Kate was in the background a lot, and so I think for Rebecca to choose her to be the one, like, hey, if Miguel is not able, you are going to be the one who makes these decisions. I think that that shook a lot up for the dynamic, shook the table because it ain't Rebecca. He knows her children. First of all, Rand you've been doing too much. You don't need to be so sacrificial. I think Toby provided the best explanation as to why Rebecca chose her, and he was like, you really don't see yourself. You really don't see how empathetic you are, how you see everything, how you see people and how you meet them where they are. We have somebody that speaks life into you, your potential of what you believe you can be. Can just experience so much. Now this girl is out here on the plane flying to London. Building schools were visually like because all it took was her to believe that everybody else was telling her. Your mom's saw your dad saw it, I see it. Do you see it, do you believe what you see? And when she did, she took off, took off. Yeah. I really enjoyed where they were with each other by the end of the series. I felt like that was very fitting at different level of appreciation and healing because I think especially between the brothers, they've always but it heads and they resented what the other person could offer versus seeing that, you know what, it's helping the family right the way you randall being detailed oriented, Okay, it allows you to take strategic steps to figure out, do the research and say, okay, this is what I believe. It's the best decision. With Kevin very passionate, feels deeply having that emotion intelligence and being able. I mean, he needs to slow down with decision making, but he can you know, bring in that perspective as well into the conversation. So I like the fact that they were able to become the Big three man when they did that final Big Three Jesus. Somebody shared a video of like the first time they did it as the little kids and then the last time they did it, and I was no more good when he taught them, and I was just like, you know what you're coming for everybody. Yeah, so I am very curious to see what Dane will do next. I already know the writer's room is going to be incredible, so I think Kay I forget her last name, I have to add that in already has a show that I think she's working on about the therapist in Philadelphia, right, isn't she working on the show or around? Yes? Yes, yes, yes, yes, And I can't wait that. And if she's a therapist consult with she already doing because yes, because she she wrote what you call it. She wrote the Louisiana episode. Yes, the Mother's episode when I'm telling you, when I saw that episode, Yeah, she's a star. Oh yeah goon Okay, when she I knew, so I'll be watching that show too. Yes, so we will definitely be paying attention to what all the writers from people do from this point moving forward because we already know it's going to be great. So any final thoughts or any kind of things that we missed that you definitely want to make sure we chat about as we say goodbye to This is Us. This is Us is one of the greatest shows of all time. It is amazing, gold standard. If you have not watched it. You need to watch it and I stand by it ten toes down. Oh yeah. And also I feel like I didn't know this, but I've been seeing chatter online around them not having won any awards for the show. Is it just for writing? And I don't think Mandy Moore has gotten any acting it was but she definitely needs something from this season for sure. She needs her and she deserves And no, we get a Twitter space with GF Peppers and Jamir Ponder and James Porta. He is the military consultant for This is Us. So, like you know, when Jack went to the the military and all that, he said that the writers have never one an award for their writing. How how is that possible? It is? It is beyond me. If it is not a clean sweep next award season, then you you already know somebody fixed it. Somebody fixed it. Yeah. The writing, the writing, especially this season has been just impeccable. I feel like every season, but definitely this season. I mean the Train episode alone, I feel like it's better than most of the stuff that we have seen on DV. So I fully expect that they get there. Just the forecasts to Train episode and possibly Miguel Miguel. I agree. I agree, but I can train. Episode will be nominated. It should have win, it should God, she put both feet in that episode. She said she threw up when she read the script, and I see why, right right, I cannot imagine. Well, I was crying. All right, we're just watching, we're not even acting on it. So I mean, I hope they don't get picketed. They messed around and don't get that girl out any so let this be a warning. Let this be a warning emy people. Sorry, cool, Sorry to the people if they don't, all right, do the right do the right thing. Well, thank you for joining us again. Beverly is always such a pleasure chatting about our favorite episodes. Remind us where we can find you online, Beverly Andre underscore Beverly with an L E y. I had to add that to my Twitter profile because oh they're still spelling my name wrong, so you know it's you giggles, but true Beverly with an L e y. Oh yeah, and your website, Oh never got Beverly Andre dot com and be Heart Counseling dot com. If you need some therapy, if you're a black and brown woman or a couple, come at your girl, I'm ready for you, and we will be sure to include all of that in the show notes. Thank you again, Beverly. I'm so glad Beverly was able to join me again this week to learn more about her and her work. Be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash This is us, and be sure to text two of your girls and ask them to check out the episode right now. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the net designed just for black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. This episode was produced by Freda Lucas and Alice Ellis and editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care

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The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
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