Last week, Amazon dropped the highly-anticipated documentary Megan Thee Stallion: In Her Own Words, directed by Nneka Onuorah. It’s no secret how much we love Megan over here, and this documentary brilliantly showcases the rise of one of the most charismatic and lovable rappers in the game, while also allowing Megan to be vulnerable in discussions of her mental health after several tragedies.
Today I'm joined by the director, Nneka, to learn more about how she approached the documentary. During our conversation she gives us a behind-the-scenes look at how the film was created, while also discussing what she hopes you’ll take away from the film, especially when it comes to ideas like grief and wellness in the Black community.
About the Podcast
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, Yill, thanks so much for joining me for the special bonus episode of the Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after word from our sponsors. What up, y'all?
Is Nico Onara and I'm on the Therapy for Black Girls podcasts.
Yeah.
Last week Amazon dropped the highly anticipated documentary Megan the Stallion in her own Words, directed by Nica Onara. It's no secret how much we love Meg over here. This documentary brilliantly showcases the rise of one of the most charismatic and lovable rappers in the game, while also allowing Meg to be vulnerable in discussions of our mental health after several tragedies. Today, I'm joined by the director Nika to learn more about how she approached documentary. Nika is a trailblazing Emmy Award winning Nigerian American filmmaker, producer, and activist committed to telling narratively and formally daring stories that re examine and lift up under repers in it communities. During our conversation, you'll hear her giving us a behind the scenes look at how the film was created, while also discussing what she hopes you'll take away from the film, especially when it comes to ideas like grief and wellness in the black community. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag tpg in session or join us over in the sister Circle To talk more about the episode. You can join us at community dot Therapy from blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. It's so good to meet you, Nicka. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Nice to meet you too. Thank you for having.
Me absolutely absolutely so. If you could take us back to the moment that you got the call that you would be directing this documentary. Can you tell me a little bit about your initial thoughts and reactions?
Absolutely. I was originally about to sign on.
Literally that day, I was on the phone with my agents for another project, and then Time Studio and Rock Nation had called me separately and been like, Hey, we really want you to do this Meg in the Stallion film. Can you just meet with her? So I said cool, went to our house. When I got to our house, we were supposed to have an hour meeting. That meeting turned into three hours of tears. Me seeing a young girl in her mid twenties at the highest point in her career but dealing with some really emotional trauma, a lot of grief. In the juxtaposition of experiencing that high high and that low low simultaneously made me say, Hey, I really really think that I should do this film, not only because I wanted to be a safe space for Meg, but also her story represented so much of the storytelling that I like to tell, which is giving a voice to the voiceless, empowering women, and also teaching us how to unbecome so we become our highest selves. And so Meg checked all those boxes, and I decided I'm not doing that other project, and that I was meant to do this project. And I started pacing back and forth when I was talking to my team about not doing an other project. And that's kind of my sign. If I start pacing back and forth, it means I'm in the right place.
I'm supposed to do it.
So I love that. I love that you already are touching on a question I have because the subtitle of the film is in her own words, So can you say a little bit about how you collaborated with her to make sure that she felt like she was portrayed accurately?
Absolutely.
I think me as a storyteller, I'm a verite filmmaker, and so.
A lot of my style is observational storytelling.
I don't really do films where you have sit down interviews and people are really given commentary on things. I'm going to take a verite, fly on the ball approach into this. And also I created my own relationship with Meg by deciding to film a lot of this myself with my own hands, sometimes with an iPhone, sometimes with a camera, because she was very trepidacious about even doing this to begin with.
So I created that intimacy that bond with her so.
That people could really know her through the lens of herself, through the external conversations that were happening online.
Yeah, you took what I thought was a very unique approach in that we do see interactions between you and Meg in the documentary. I mean, I think that that speaks to the intimacy that you all created. But I think often documentaries are shot from like an outside vantage point, right like this objective viewer. Can you say more about like why you chose the vantage point that you chose.
I chose the vantage point because I feel like we needed an up close experience. When you're really close to something, you get to see the nuance, you get to see the good, the bad, everything in between. And I feel like the intimacy was going to create a truth that we could see the truth of Vegan's story firsthand. There's nothing to be told. You're seeing events recorded as they were happening in a lot of this story, and so I think that gave it a perspective of people just being able to be immersed in it. And as a filmmaker, immersive storytelling is important to me when I do any project, I want you to feel like you're sitting with the person. You're in their lives, you're a friend of theirs, and so that was a part of the approach to that. In order for people to have understanding and empathy, sometimes you need closeness to have empathy. So you can't be from a very far advantage point.
And we definitely have seen your career really kind of skyrocket since your days as an intern and since your first documentary, which was called The Same Difference. How do you feel like your storytelling has evolved since then?
Oh my god.
The core tenements of why I'm telling stories is the same, but in terms of how I tell those stories, I continue to push the boundaries, not only visually but the story arcs I tell. I've just been making films for a while now. The Same Difference was like ten years ago or something like that, and so with each film I get stronger and stronger, and I wanted to challenge myself on how I told this story, which is why I had the use of anime, which is why I challenge myself. Musically, I love orchestral music, so I knew who Meg loved horror. I called Michael Abeles and I wrote him a letter. I was like I'm so passionate. He did the score for Get Out and Us with Jordan Peel, and there was some really scary moments that she was having nightmares and just being anxious, and I was like, oh my god, Michael Abeles will be incredible to score this film. So stayed up in the middle of the night doing score with Orchestra and Budapest because I wanted a cinematic score. So I feel like I just continue to push the boundaries of how documentaries are made. I like to break traditional sense of documentaries and how they made and try to do something new.
And I think we did that with this film.
M h.
And I'm sure you know as you talked about, like so much of this was happening in real time even as you were filming the documentary, and there was so much like outside conversation about everything going on with Meg, especially as it related to the shooting. And I can get the sense from you that there was real care taken in how her story would be portrayed. I want to hear more about, like how you, for example, when she's talking about lying to Gail King right, how were you able to craft that story in a way that still protected her when this documentary was released.
The thing about vulnerability is that you don't necessarily always have protection.
The protection is in the truth.
And Megan was just so candid about anything, and sometimes I would ask for questions that would provoke what do you feel like you could be accountable for the situation? What do you think you could have did differently? And having those conversations with her allowed her to be introspective in a way where she could reflect back on things that she did and why she did them. Going through grief is very hard, and a lot of times when we're going through grief we can't see through the smoke sometime, and that's a real human experience, and I think that's what creates the connectivity because with mental health specifically, you have a lot of moments.
The most truthful moments are the moments.
That we never talk about because we feel alone, We feel like no one else is going through that.
So I think she was so brave and sharing what she was experiencing.
And I think that now allows other people who are experiencing that and hiding it to be able to come out and have stronger mental health because they're just speaking about why they did the things they did. And I love that scene when she says stuff about Gail King, because that's what it was. We all have moments like that, and it makes her human. And I think that it's time for us to get back to humanity and not trying to be a highlight red on a thirty second social media post, but just be good humans.
So I want to hear a little bit more about like your routines and like grounding yourself to take on a project like this. I think with some very vulnerable, sensitive content, what kinds of rituals and things did you do to take care of yourself.
I think my girlfriend was a very good support system for me, just being able to be vulnerable in my relationships, in my time with my family, opening myself up in life. It was inspiring to see Meg really just let everything hang out and all the struggles she was going through, And so I embraced my emotional things I was going through in life too, so that I can be in the same headspace as Meg. So I'm telling it through her. So I felt like the impath and me really took in her story. I was living through it. So anything I challenged Megan to do, I challenged myself to do in my personal life. And I challenged myself to be more vulnerable, and I challenged myself to be more honest about where I struggle with things in life.
And having that and having.
A great support system at home, I think created a strength in me to be able to do this for three years.
And get it done.
More. From our conversation after the break, I hear you talking about being in an EmPATH, and you know, it sounds like that means you took on a lot of the story right almost as your own. And I know a lot of times when people feel that way, it's important to set boundaries to help you disconnect from the story, so to speak, and get back into your regular life. What kinds of things did you do to kind of disconnect disconnect?
I love karaoke. I even took Meg the karaoke before because we needed those moments. I wanted her to have moments of happiness. And so sometime between film and I'd be like, Meg, you want to go to karaoke or you want to come over, let's play games at the house.
I think me hearing the dancers, and we had a game night, and.
So I think having fun laughter is very important to me, being spontaneous is important to me, going to see plays, going to Broadway, putting more art back into myself really helped me just decompress and wipe it off at the end of the day because it was very an emotional experience to go through with someone. But I'm very happy I did. I'm very proud of Megan. I got to see everything from top to bottom and her transition. I feel like I got to watch someone rise from the ashes and become a phoenix, and I think seeing that happen to a black woman is empowering. And I'm so happy that seeing online all the women saying, wow, this may be more empathetic or this made me think about what I write online. It's already inspiring so many and it's only been like twenty four hours. So I'm excited to see what it does over the test of time years from now, when women are going through something and need to empower themselves or having mental health issues in their fighting for themselves and saying I'm going to go to therapy to fix this. Because Meghan made a decision to stop working and go take her wellness seriously, and that helped her navigate the case and other things.
So you mentioned that one of your favorite unwinding things is karaoke and that you even did this with Meg. What is your go to karaoke song?
Oh my god, my, Oh my god, my go to karaoke song, Mary J. Blige be Without You, that's my I think I don't have a.
Karaoke without that one. I love Mary, so that's like my go to song. Or Tina Turner was love Got to do It?
Oh, those are good choices. Were you shocked by any of the songs that Meg chose.
She loves Circles by Mariah Carey Emancipation of Memi, which is one of my favorite albums ever. So she loves singing circles really loudly. So I love going to karaoke with m h.
You talked a little bit about mental health a couple of times. Now, what kinds of mental health conversations do you hope the documentary and continues to foster.
I think shadow work in a Child.
I actually study psychology before I got into film, and I'm very deeply inspired by a lot of not only philosophers, but doctors and Carl Young.
Shadow work was deeply inspiring for me.
In the case of this as was Audrey Lord the Power of the Erotic Essay, and I really feel like mental health and navigating things. I feel like a lot of times in our black community, we don't take the time, and we don't have the time because we're going through so much just trying to navigate life. We don't take the time to pour back into ourselves. And so I think all those things, combining those things, was hoping that that comes through in the film to help rejuvenate people and allow them to take theirselves seriously. A lot of time we put ourselves second as Black women, and something in my life I've had to do was teach myself that I can't pour into anybody unless I'm poured into first. And so I think that Meg decided that Megan Pete needs to be all good so that Meghanie Stallion can stand this adversity. I'm very inspired by the fact that she decided to do that for herselves, especially as a young woman.
M You've talked in a couple of other interviews about the importance of exercise for you, and really that helps you to strengthen their craft. Why is exercise and physical activity so important to you?
Number One, Going to the gym.
Early in the morning before anybody wakes up is a time where I get to just be quiet and visualize what I want my life my day to look like, listen to some music, pour some inspirational playlist into my head. And then also it's a physical reminder that I'm taking care of myself. A lot of times my day gets lost by pouring into my work, directing other people, going to get the kids, taking care of my mom, whatever it is. My day is a lot of that, and so it's my one moment for me to feel my body, know that I'm a physical being, check in with myself, and to do that in a physical way. Because a lot of my work is so mental, it's nice to have that outlet to come out of my body and just tell my body, we love you, we love you every morning and be able to visualize what I want my life to look like.
So I use that time before anybody wakes up to do that.
And what's your favorite physical activity?
My favorite physical activity is a treadmill. If I don't go to the treadmill for more than two days, I start to lose it a little bit. I like it because I'm the areas I like fast and hard, fast paced, to sweat and just to be able to tune the world out sometimes. And so I think that's my favorite physical activity. Besides that is dancing. Everybody knows I used to be a dancer before I was a director. I feel like it's another form of physical storytelling. So I like to tell that story with my body too. So you can find me at any moment dancing randomly on the street and you know, in the house with my family. So those are the two, like running and dancing. Got it?
Love that? Love that. So in the beginning of the year, you announced a first look deal with Amazon MGM in addition to this new documentary that you have now, So I'd love to hear what does the first look deal mean for people who may not be familiar with that, and how are you celebrating all of these incredible wins in your life.
First look deal just means that if I have a creative idea, I just take it to Amazon first to see if they're interested in that idea. Amazon has been so good to me in my career trajectory and me growing as a filmmaker, and they invested in that, and it means the world to me. These are things that.
Were on my vision board. Some of them weren't.
I never imagine winning an Emmy, or directing Obama or her first look deals. I didn't care about that at the time. I just really was trying to make a difference in the world. I thought I was going to be in politics or like I said, collogy, helping others.
And so if you ask.
My mom, when I was younger, I would just boss my friends around and make them do dances all day till they got tired into oblivion and cried and try to go home. And even though I thought I was playing but real talk, I was really directing. I've been doing it my entire life. I'm listening to a song, looking out the window it's raining, I'm imagining the pain someone maybe going through, making up stories in my head. And so to even think that would be a thing that I do out loud for work as a career, I'm just being myself and so I'm walking in my purpose and it's making me so happy. This particular film, I really feel like I showcased my art in its truest form. I feel like I got to tell I feel like this is the director's cut year I feel I got to tell the story exactly as I wanted to with no interference. And I just think Amazon for trusting me. I think Megan for trusting me. I think Time Studios for trusting me. I think Rock Nation for trusting me, and most importantly, the community for trusting me as a storyteller that can showcase their truth their voice in a positive way. So I'm very thankful to be able to live in my purpose and my God given ordination.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm very excited for you to share that you know, And I wonder if you think about it, because I hear you talking about like, oh, I study psychology and you know all of these things. Do you see what you do now as a kind of not direct but it to me is connected to psychology, especially this documentary.
Absolutely, I actually am doing documentaries so I can do them for a certain amount of years.
But then I want to become like a fraud.
I want to come up with theories about the world that I can leave as a legacy based on these documentaries that I study. Because if you look at whether I'm doing a documentary on boys in Nigeria being oppressed and arrested for their sexuality, or perceived sexuality, or doing a story on women who are plus sized loving on themselves dancing for joy, whether it's doing it on a group with dancers or.
Whatever the case is.
Whatever stories I'm telling, it's really about unbecoming to become your highest self. And I feel like I want to come up with theories around this in years to come. So I'm using this as a case study for myself. And I do consider myself a social scientist. I just changed the way that social science learning could be and I'm learning it through life and real people versus reading a book.
And writing about it.
And how do you hope that your presence in the things that you were doing in the film and media space open the doors for other black queer creatives.
I hope I opened the doors for other creatives by saying, look, you don't have to go to conventional way everybody else did. I didn't go to film school. I did not really get handed in the opportunity. I didn't know anyone in the film industry or anything. I just went for it. Whatever I wanted to do.
I found the person I asked for it. I demanded it.
If I have the money to film something I was like Yo, I'll give you Chinese food or a Metro card.
Can you shoot this interview for me?
There should be nothing that could stop you from doing anything that you're passionate about. If you want to do something, you make it happen with as little or as much.
As you have. It doesn't matter. I would do this with no money.
I've done it with a cell phone, even up into this film, I've done it with more and less, and so I think that you just have to continue to listen to yourself and continue to listen so you could fulfill your vision of life. You can absolutely do it, and waiting for it is not going to make it happen any faster. So go out there and get it for yourself, despite what anyone says.
Thank you so much for that, Nika. So one final question. What kinds of things do you feel like you learned about Meg that you were surprised by and what do you want the world to know differently about Meg based on this documentary.
I think I was surprised by how quirky and curious she was. Me and Meg spent off time talking about am I Slytherin or gryffindor her wanting to travel to different countries. I thought she had traveled to all these countries. She's like, what's this country? Like what's that country? Like me talking to her about that or caviar. I think she's just deeply curious and she's so intelligent. She knows something about everything. Every subject you could bring to her, whether it's an anime conversation, whether it's a science conversation, random facts about animals. Meg will just start going on a rent about different facts in the world, like a true Aquarius. And so I hope the world gets in on how intelligent and brilliant she is and that she has so many sides to her, and I hope those sides continue to shine and people get to know Megan Pete as Megan thee Stallion holds all the women down and make sure they feel in powered.
I love that. Thank you so much for that. Nika, where can we stay connected with you? Do you have a website or any social media handles you'd like to share?
Yees for NIKEA Energy at Instagram and I put all my updates there. You can find all my links, everything I'm up to, all my work you can find from there. So Nike Energy at Instagram and make sure you watch MEGANI style and her words.
You will be moved by this film.
It's a labor of love, three years in the making and I'm so excited to share with the world so on Prime video right now.
Beautiful, Thank you so much for spending some time with us today.
Nika, thank you, thank you for having me.
Absolutely, I'm so glad Nika was able to join me for this conversation. To learn more about her and her work, be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash in her own words, and don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check it out. If you're looking for a therapist, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue to dig into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy Connor Vanternet designed just for black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Zaia Taylor, and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me for this conversation. We'll be back with our regular episode on Wednesday, but until then, take good care.