Bonus: A Trans-Inclusive Approach to Dating

Published Feb 16, 2024, 8:00 AM

Earlier this week, we shed some light on the experience of dating as a transgender woman, and today we want to delve a little bit more into that conversation, this time from the lens of certified sex therapist Tia Evans. Tia has a private practice in which she holds space for people from all cultures and backgrounds. She holds a Master of Social Work from Fayetteville State University, a Master of Education in Human Sexuality from Widener University, and is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in the State of North Carolina.

During our conversation, we explored ways for a transgender person to identify signs of safety in a potential friend or partner, how to establish boundaries around intimacy with a new partner, and how cisgender individuals can best support their transgender partners.

About the Podcast

The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

Resources & Announcements

Her (Dating App)

Fiorry (Dating App)

Trans Sex by Kelvin Sparks

Queer Sex: A Trans and Non-Binary Guide to Intimacy, Pleasure and Relationships by Juno Roche

Visit our Amazon Store for all the books mentioned on the podcast.

Grab your copy of Sisterhood Heals.

 

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Our Production Team

Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard

Producers: Fredia Lucas & Ellice Ellis

Production Intern: Zariah Taylor

Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for a special bonus episode of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a worry from our sponsors. Earlier this week, we shed some light on the experience of dating as a transgender woman, and today we want to delve a little deeper into that conversation, this time from the lens of certified sex therapist Tia Evans. Tia has a private practice in which she holds space for people from all cultures and backgrounds. She holds a Master of Social Work from Fayeteville State University, a Master of education in Human Sexuality from Widner University and is a licensed clinical social worker in the state of North Carolina. During our conversation, we explored ways for a transgender person to identify signs of safety and a potential friend or partner, how to establish boundaries around intimacy with a new partner, and how cisgender individuals can best support their transgender place partners. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session or join us over in the sister Circle to talk more about the episode. You can join us at Community dot Therapy from blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Tire, of course, thank you for having me. Absolutely absolutely so. You are a licensed clinical social worker and a kink friendly sex therapist. Can you talk to us a little bit about what you do in the communities you serve?

So my role is people come to me when they have issues in the relationships and their sex lives, questions about a gender, sexuality, all that fun.

Stuff, got it? Got it? And what does it mean to be kink friendly?

That means that I'm pretty well versed in things in the kink community. So like BDSM, anything that's unconventional I have a pretty good knowledge base of. And so I come into a place of the non judgmental. You can come ask your questions, you can ask your opinions, and we can run just hash things out that they may not feel comfortable doing in regular therapy.

And so in a large part of your caseload and a lot of the work you do is also as a part of the trans community.

Correct, Yes, a huge base.

Yes, So I think it's important for us when we are having these kinds of conversations to make sure we have good definitions and that people are kind of operating from the same place. So I want to ask you a couple of words to see if you can give us a definition so that you know people have a better understanding. So what are we talking about when we say cis gender?

So a cist gender person is a person that identifies with the gender that they were assigned at birth.

Okay, and what about trans feminine?

For somebody who identifies as transfeminine, that means that they have been assigned one particular gender that may have been assigned male as their gender. But they identify as female or they identify as being more or into feminine based things.

And what about trans masculine.

So then that's going to be the opposite of that. So that's a person who's tender, maybe a signed female at birth, but they identify as male or they are into masculine things or identify with things that are traditionally labelled as a masculine.

So, Tia, you know, I know so much of like how we know about ourselves and how we are interested in dating and our dating habits are shaped by like our upbringing, right, And I know that for people in the trans community, they're often being raised by CIS people. So can you talk a little bit about how like that lack of representation impacts identity and dating choices.

So when people aren't used to seeing how they would love to date or they are in clinent today being represented let's stay in the media or even in their own community, it makes them feel isolated or it makes them feel like what they're doing is and people tend to and if they're put into that box, they tend to kind of shut down and maybe go into themselves and they withdraw. You might see somebody end up being very anxious or depressed, or just seemingly not connected to society as a whole, maybe like even checked out.

And you mentioned the media for a lot of people who are in morginalized communities, if you don't see yourself represented in your home or in your community, and you will turn to media, right, So, TV, film, books, those kinds of things. Can you talk a little bit about the impact that you have seen on the trans community from looking at depictions of trans life in the media.

I think that when we see things that are in a positive light, then you see more of a whilely seeing my patients, more of happy, upbeat. But then when you see things in the media that might show trends people in a negative light, then I see them coming with more of being down themselves or maybe even questioning where they fit in society or in their own lives and their own community. So I think it definitely ebbs and flows with what you see on TV or on the radio, with how people who are a part of the community tend to reflect in the day to day.

And to your earlier points. So, I recently had a chance to watch the Disclosure documentary on Netflix. Have you seen that I haven't seen it, Okay. So there was a lot in the documentary just about not having trans representation in the media, or if it was then it was always this thing that was like looked upon negatively or it was like a joke, right, Like a joke was made out of trans people's lives, and that the people in the documentary were talking about how that impacted their identity and like their self concept until they grew up and maybe met trans people in later life.

I don't have to check that out. It sounds really good.

Mm hmmmmm, Yeah, it definitely would be one. I think you'd appreciate. The other thing that they talked about as a part of the documentary was like having to unlearn so much of like the negative stereotypes that they saw about trans people in the media. Can you talk a little bit about maybe what that has looked like with your clients, Like what kinds of things have they had to unlearned.

Believe it or not, some people who identify as trans are in the community may have a bit of transphobia themselves just because of what they've seen or what's been spilled back into them. So part of what I do is kind of unpack what they've learned, and we decipher what is good to keep and what is not so good to keep, and I really get in there and discover what do they want to be, how do they want to represent themselves? So what does it mean to be authentic? And that's what comes across my desk a lot is how do I live authentically when the world doesn't want me to be present? And so part of that is really just sitting into that and maybe just defining what does it mean to be authentic? And how do we persevere and look past the negativity? How do we look past the stereotypes, and how do we get people to be seen and heard as it deserved to be seen and heard.

Yeah, and I was gonna say, I would imagine that your job has become that much harder in recent years, right with all the additional like anti trans legislation that's being passed. Can you talk a little bit about how all of that has impacted your work and your clients.

So I am in North Carolina and where's a lot of negative trans bills floating around right now, and some of the bigger ones are being targeted towards my little trans people. So my under eighteen people. And so that's where we see a lot of not just the patience, but the parents too try and decide or what we're gonna do because a lot of people are option to move. That's the biggest impact that's happening right now. Within this day, there's people making exit plans to leave the state, to seek refuge and places that are safer or places that are more welcoming. It's devastating.

Yeah, So when you talk about like sitting with people and helping them to kind of appreciate authentically who they are, what does that look like? What kinds of conversations are you having or exercises that might help with some of that.

So I asked them to define who they are. If they have to describe themselves to anybody, how will they describe themselves? And then we'll go into well how does that look? How do you represent that adjective with the physical? How do you want to present? How do you want to look? What do you want to give to the world. That's pretty much how we start, and then I send them home, Well, this is what you need to work on. Here is how you can present and the way you want to present. And let's see what feels good for you, and let's see what doesn't feel good for you, and let's reshape it if it doesn't.

Tea earlier, you mentioned that even people in the trans community themselves will sometimes experience transphobia, and that feels similar to you. Even black people experiencing anti blackness right and are having anti black kinds of thoughts. So what kinds of things do you do to help them unpack like some of their internalized transphobia.

So I normalize people being able to present the way they want to present. So sometimes you see some trans people talking about how I want to make sure that I pass or what does it mean to be passable? And what does it mean to be able to blend in? And then there are some people in the community that just are free to look and feel how they want to feel, and that may not be mainstream, that may not be the norm, so to speak. And so I work with patients to normalize. You look how you want to look, You represent how you want to represent, and that doesn't make you any more or less of how you want to be seen or viewed. And how you look doesn't affect how the next person looks, and so less normalize your own style, your own authenticity, your own esthetic.

Can you talk to you about any additional kinds of struggles that you see with maybe some of your black trans clients. Are there additional kinds of conversations, additional things to kind of work through as being a part of the black community.

Oh? Absolutely. The biggest thing I see is issues with the church and their spirituality and religion that intersects heavy. Especially a lot of the people who are in the trans community that come from a very heavily spiritual Christian base will often be conflicted on well, this is what my religion says, but this is how I feel. Or I can't go home because my grandmother, who is a deepness in church, or my father who's a pastor in the church, doesn't want me around because of how I look to them, and how the church might see my parents not even meet, but how I see my parents. So what it trickles down, that's what I see the most within the black and brown communities is how their religion crosses over into the identity.

Thank you for sharing that tea, You know it makes me think about there's obviously then some grief to I would imagine process when maybe you have to let go of some of those relationships, either as parents or with a church. Can you talk a little bit about how you might help somebody process.

That so that might even look like maybe a mini funeral, or what do you want to say to your family that you may not be able to say? If you want to write a letter, even if you send it or not, what do you want that letter to say as your goodbyes to whoever you have to let go, If it's the or if it's religion as a whole, what can you do to find peace with that within yourself? And what does that mean for you to maybe get your spiritual cut field in a different way. So we look up ways to process letting go, but looking forward to being able to be free. Is that sacrifice worth the freedom? And if it is, then we move forward. If it's not, well, what does that mean? How can you find those little pieces of peace in the struggle.

Can you say more about the ceremony. I think that's often a very powerful kind of imagery for people to do, like these kind of funerals, or it kind of reminds me of like an empty chair technique. Can you say a little bit more about the ceremony, like would you encourage them to invite other people to be a witness to that? What does that look like?

Only if they feel safe doing so. But usually it's something that we might even do in session where the person is maybe standing up and reading what their goodbyes could look like to the couch, which is again the empty chair method, or even just saying hey, this is who I used to be. I am memorialized and who I used to be, and I'm letting go of that so that the new week can be birthed. So it really is one of those they write out what they want to say. If they want to bring in our article of clothing or something that they want to leave behind, they're welcome to do that. Just something that memorializes who they were and maybe something to look forward to moving forward, even if it's like a new tube of lipstick or a new tie, just something to kind of complete the ceremony, if you will.

Thank you for that more from our conversation after the break. So, you know, I think even within the LGBTQIE community there has often been even further marginalization for trans people as a part of that community and kind of being made to feel invisible. Can you talk a little bit about some of that backlash and supporting clients to find community even within the community that they may be feeling pushed out of.

And I think the biggest part about that too is some people in the community see the tea in the acronym is more gender based versus sexuality based, and that's where a lot of intersection looks or a lot of them being ostracized looks like, oh, this is a tack on our sexuality, but they're folks on their gender, so they should stay over there, when really there's a lot of people who are trans that are very much steal lesbian or gay or participate in the acronym as well. So letting them know that they still belong, normalizing that your place is here. If you want to identify within this culture, then you have every right to do so, and nobody can take they're from you. I love to say, who gonna check you in my sessions? Because really and truly, who has the right to do that?

Right right? I love that? And can you talk a little bit about helping people in the trans community find community for themselves, because I think if you can't be a part of some of these larger communities. Sometimes that means you have to create it for yourself. So can you talk about supporting clients through that or with that?

Absolutely? So what I do is I talk about, well, what does your support system look like now, and how many people aren't in supports who are also trans, and what does that look like? Would you like more trans friends? And we talk about ways to maybe find trans friends, ways to if their city has an organization that's dedicated to the trans community, I might direct them there, if there's resources onlines or even Facebook groups that seem safe. Just trying to encourage them to find their tribe and what speaks to them. Because and then because everybody's not going to accept everybody, and that's the unfortunate reality of the world. So my job is to get back to them and say, you find your people. Who do you want your people to be? Let's find your people. Let me help you find your people.

We definitely talk about, you know, finding community and friendship here at TVG a lot. Can you talk a little bit about how people can assess whether somebody is actually a safe person to be in their circle.

It looks like asking specific questions, maybe not necessarily outing themselves if they don't need to, but asking questions about how they feel about even just the lgbt QIA community as a whole. How do you feel about what's happening in politics? Maybe, oh, have you seen this show? What's your take on this show? Those little feeling questions to put those feelers out without out themselves they don't have to, that's where you start, and.

I would imagine that's why, you know, finding like the Facebook groups and different kinds of communities where like you already know that there is some acceptance and hopefully affirmation, maybe feel like a better place to start then, you know, like random strangers. Oh correct, absolutely, yeah, yeah, but.

More so you want us to do the filling out in social media or insights that may be more public and less provas. We want to be selective regardless, it's easy to infiltrate these spaces sometimes. Yeah, that's a big part of being safe too, is really knowing where you're putting yourself out there and really being on your p's and q's.

You're saying that makes me think, you know, we talked a little bit about like some of the additional challenges that black people in the trans community have and we know that some of the highest levels of violence happened to black trans women. Is there any safety planning that you do with clients or like bringing in additional agencies or resources to help support clients in that area.

I like to ask them what are they doing to stay safe? Just straight up, Especially if I have people who are trying to day or are new today, they are wanting today, and I say, well, what's your exit plan? What's happened if you meet this stranger and it comes out in that moment and it gets a little heck that what are you going to do? Talk about maybe making sure that you're closer to the door versus the other person. Just I don't want to say basic safety book because really some things would just take for granted, like watching your surroundings, looking around, checking license plates of Nebee, just those little things.

Yeah, you know. And as you're talking about this, Tia, I'm wondering how that impacts like intimacy, because you're already going into these situations thinking like, Okay, what is my safety plan going to be?

Right?

And I think most of us have to. I mean, we should be thinking about that because you just never know what it does feel like there's a particular kind of burden for folks in the trans community. So can you talk a little bit about how that might impact intimacy or the ability to even settle into relationships when you're kind of always thinking about safety planning.

I think that it takes a little longer for some just because the respector right and really making sure that they feel safe to even divulge their gender identity. I think that's a huge part of a huge part of it is actually when do I have this conversation with my partner or what does that conversation look like? And so those are the kind of things that we work through in session, where how do you want to disclose, how do you want to operate if that person maybe gets angry or that person might need more time to think about what they want to do, and normalize and give them space, to give their partner space because that could be apprehensive too that weight and gain wait and to see what the response is going to be and kind of normalize them. Well, these are your options, and what do these options look like if it falls to A to B or the C category.

So what kinds of guidelines are conversations? Do you typically talk about with your clients around like when do you disclose this information or when is it necessary?

Well, that's a big question, just asking them when they feel when it's necessary, because I can't be the judge of that. But it goes case by case scenario. It's usually around comfort level. How have you experienced this before? Have you had an opportunity to disclose a gender before? And what does that feel like? What are you gonna do differently this time or if you've never done it before, give me a sign that makes you feel safe, Tell me something that's gonna make you feel safe enough to disclose that or are you the type that you want to disclose off the top And if you do, are you willing to accept what happens or do you know what could happen if you disclose off the top your gender identity. So a lot of it is just planning and overplanning and going through scenarios and role playing and really hashing out the benefits and consequences of these particular actions and then coming behind with the safety plan on top of it. It's a lot of preparation in the front end.

Yeah, you know, And I'm wondering to ya if this feels like a pie in the sky kind of questioning, But it feels like we are asking people from this marginalized group to do like all of this thinking, like what kinds of conversations and things could we be having as people who are not members of the trans community so that this burden is not so heavy for people in the trans community.

I think it starts about just having conversations in general and correcting people or correcting friends or peers if the wrong pronouns are being used or this negative talk comes along. Somebody has to be the change agent and say, hey, it's not okay to talk about this community or talk about this person in this way. Because we're all humans, we have the right to live. And how is one person's decision directly affecting you if that's not somebody that you have in your traditional space and your space in general. So just breaking down the stereotypes and checking people out the door and being prepared to maybe lose some friends or lose some loved ones behind it to be that change agent.

So you gave us some great information around trying to assess whether somebody is trustworthy as a friend. Are there additional kinds of questions or things that people should be looking out for in terms of like being a potential partner or somebody to date, in terms of whether they are trustworthy.

I think that kind of parallels. I think once you get past the safetiness and a friend, it kind of transpires into the next section. And especially at that point, if they feel safe enough to disclose, maybe asking somebody if they dated a trans person before and what that looked like for them and how they felt about it, and really seeing what somebody's current knowledge is within dating in the community.

So for trans people who maybe are feeling like some societal pressure to disclose, right because you already said that's up to the person's kind of individual comfort. So let's say people are listening to our conversation now and they are feeling like this pressure to disclose. What kinds of things might you tell them, or what kinds of questions might they want to ask themselves?

Are you ready? Are you really ready to disclose or you just feel like you need to just because? And if it's just because, what's stopping you from waiting another day or waiting the nextra week. For those who feel that they are ready, that they do want to disclose, well, what does it feel like? What are you feeling currently? What's your reason for wanting to disclose? How do you think you're going to feel after you do disclose? And if you feel like disclosing, try it with a very trusted friend first and go from there. If you already have your tribe and you've already disclosed the people in your tribe, do you need somebody there with you to support you as you disclose? And if you do, that's okay too. It's nothing wrong with having a support person present with you when you need to have these difficult conversations or conversations where you don't quite know how the ending is going to be. And then also ask yourself, well, once the cat's out the bag, I can't put the cat back in the bag. So what is life going to look like from me?

Me?

Or how do I want my life to look once I have disclosed? It's a lot of soul searching.

Yeah, I would imagine too, like what kinds of support is going to be there after I disclosed? Right? Like what kinds of communities might I want to be able to be a part of? More from our conversation after the break, so it sounds like people are using therapy for lots of different reasons. Especially you know in the work that you're doing, what are some of the conversations or situations that maybe have come up for people like when they started dating, that they didn't even think about that. Maybe you have tried to or helped a client work through labels.

I think labels are a big thing, especially if somebody is navigating dating a person in the community that may not have even been in the community when they first started dating. As a common topic that I work with see is well what does that mean for you? Now? Am I now gay and my now a lesbian? What does this mean for me? And I try to take a step back and say, well, you don't have to jump the gun so fast. You don't have to put any label on yourself that you don't want to identify with. What do you see as a partner, who do you want as a partner? And what does dating for you mean or look like? And as far as intimacy goes, there's levels to it, right, So who says that you have to do everything that you feel like should be done. Just do what feels natural for you and let your instincts take you there. I find a lot of people in the community, they don't necessarily change their sexual identity, right, So it looks like, well, how do you want to date? Do you want to be a pursuer? Now? Do you want to be pursued? What's your style or what do you think your style is going to look like? If you're trying to navigate the dating field as a new person, how do you want to present yourself? How do you want to be treated? What do you have to give the world, and what do you want the world to give you? As you're navigating dating, just really looking at the who do you see as a potential partner? Who do you want as a partner, and how can we get that for you? How can we obtain that for you? I think those are the biggest things that come across. And then also well, how do I date? How am I supposed to dress for this first day? Or am I supposed to be the one to open the door now? Or do I wait to have the door open for me? Just these little nuances that we work through.

Yeah, and something else that has come up for us I think in the community recently is like there's a lot of anxiety about like the first time you're going to be physical with somebody, and I would imagine that is the case here too. Can you talk a little bit about how do you prepare for your first time? Like what kinds of conversations should you be having, what kinds of things can be helpful to kind of manage anxiety around your first time?

The biggest thing is boundaries. What are your boundaries? What are you willing to do, what are you not willing to do? How are you willing to be touched? And how do you want to touch others? What does consent look like? How do you withdraw consent if need be? Just again, I hate to say the word basic, but these things that we don't think about now as adults because maybe if we've navigated these as young adults, but it's kind of like, well, how do you want your body to be perceived or how do you want to use your body in a sexual manner or at an intimate level with your partner, And how do you want to have these conversations about body parts or how do you want to have this conversation about what your body may have looked like or how bodies may have changed over time, and how does that affect you when you look in the mirror, what do you see? Do you feel sexy?

No?

How can we get you to feel sexy? What do you need to feel better about yourself or better about what you see when you look in the mirror, because that's where it really istess arts.

So you mentioned the term that I think a lot of people may not be familiar with, Tia, withdrawing consent. So can you talk a little bit more about what that means? And like, how would you even withdraw consent?

So with drawing consent just means that you want to stop whatever activity is happening. So that looks like saying stop or no, or I think we should shade this for a later date, or I thought I was ready for I don't think I'm ready now. So anytime you might have said Okay, I do want to do this activity, but then you change your mind later, its withdrawing consent.

And I think a lot of people don't know that even if you have done something before, you can still withdraw consent and say I don't want to do that again.

Absolutely.

Yeah, So you mentioned something Tia that I wanted to follow up on. You talked about a lot of these conversations actually need to happen before anybody gets nikeked. Right, So all these conversations around boundaries, how would you introduce this conversation with a potential partner.

I think a lot of it is a natural progression. So it may happen with that first kiss, so that first makeout session, or when things start to feel like they're getting hot and heavy, and it starts with somebody's saying, let's really talk about this. What are our expectations and what does it look like for me to say I'm ready? What does it look like for me to say I may not have had sex this way before, but I'm willing to try. And it's something really special about being vulnerable, And all of this is assessing somebody's vulnerability level and what are they willing to do, what are they willing to talk about? And again, if they're not ready, maybe let's take a step back and do that at a later date. Let's just focus on building our mental intimacy or our romantic intimacy and not just straight sexual intimacy.

So so much of dating today, when you've already talked about this a little bit, but so much of dating today is happening online, right, so we know you've already mentioned that people can easily infiltrate spaces. So what kinds of conversations are What kinds of suggestions would you give to people around kW to navigate online dating to defend against transphorb me as much as possible. What kinds of suggestions would you have there.

Trust your instincts, trust your gut, let somebody know if you're going on a first date, let somebody know your surroundings of what's happening around you. And as far as trying to select a partner or you know, read through who could be a potential is just look for those keywords, look for how that person is talking about trans people, or look about how that person is talking about people in the community as a whole, and just be alert. Ask questions. There's nothing wrong with too many questions. And then for somebody who their style they prefer to disclose off the top, be okay with the backlash, be okay or normalizing or not taking that personal that person doesn't want to continue, and know when to take a break. If are you're seeing on these Dayton profiles is transphobia? Of are you've seen is negative outlook on the internet, or social media. Just cut the computer off for a little bit, take some time. It's okay to come back to that later day. You don't have to digest this all day every day. It's already waiting out there for you anyway. So you take your time and you take a step back from everything from Dayton peruse and social media. Stick to your support system and ask for help if you need help.

So you know. Another first that I think can bring up a lot of anxiety for people is meeting a partner's family for the first time. Right and again, I would imagine that this can be, you know, an additional level of stress for a trans person. Can you talk about what kinds of things should the non trans partner maybe do to prepare their family, Like, what kinds of conversations should be happening to make sure this is an affirming kind of opportunity for the person.

For the non trans person bringing their trans partner into their family, it starts with again boundaries talking to their famils. Ka, Okay, we're not gonna talk about this, We're not gonna bring this particular subject up. We're gonna let that person and they share pronouns. This is their pronouns. Is the pronouns that we're using. If somebody uses an incorrect pronoun, I expect you to either correct yourself or be prepared to be corrected. And just setting those firm boundaries that this is not gonna fly. This is the person that I'm choosing to be with, and if that can be accepted, then maybe we can't have dinner on Sunday. It looks like being very firm in their support and then their affirmation of their partner.

Yeah, and I would imagine that there are again some conversations that need to happen with the partner even before you meet the family, right around what kinds of things feel comfortable? What kinds of things don't feel comfortable?

Yeah, so then you're definitely gonna have that conversation with your partner about, well, okay, what are your boundaries with my family or what kind of things do I need to look out for if you're feeling uncomfortable? What kind of support do you need if you're feeling uncomfortable, and what's our exep plain and if we need to leave, we can leave and remind that partner that they don't have to be in a space that they're uncomfortable being in and if any kind of discomfort is there, we're gonna remove ourselves. And those kind of things can be happening way before the meeting, in the car on the way to the meeting, as far as reaffirming that is going to be okay, I'm here, letting your partner know that you are there for them, This is just the next station in your relationship and that you're here.

So you talked earlier Tia about the importance of media and like solid positive depictions of trans people. Can you point to any like shows or films or things that you've seen recently that you think have done a good job of really presenting trans people.

So I really love POSS and I know it's not on anymore, but I just recently rewrited the series, and I think a lot of that is very very affirming to see people in the community even that far, even it's not that far, but you know, talking about the eighties and early nineties, the depictions of the trans population there is really where I pull from the most. I see a lot of people on social media as far as like TikTok is Concerned or even Facebook coming out more and sharing their stories and sharing their journeys, and that's usually where I direct a lot of my patients too, if they're looking for a more positive light or more of how do I see myself on the screen, So a lot of me is showing them social media.

So you are also working on a workbook, Tia, tell us more about your work wook and what your plans are, your hopes are for the work.

So it's a work in progress. It is about intimacy. How to build intimacy with your partner or partners if you are in nom monogamous relationships, and what that looks like from a physical aspect, from a romantic aspect, en fron mental aspect, and so it's just about those little things to get your intimacy back to where there it was or better than what it was beforehand. People are looking to pull that spark back, all right.

So let us know where we can stay posted so that we know when the workbook drops. What is your website as well as any social media channels you'd like to share.

So my website is Beth change hky dot com. You can find me on Instagram at t the Sex Therapist, no Ian sex. Because social media they will pull you. Also on Facebook, as Ta Evans sexuality and relationship therapist, I believe is what it is currently. And then my brick and mortar practice is based out of Hickory, North Carolina, and it's called The Change within the Counseling Center Perfect.

We'll be sure to include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today, Tya, absolutely, I'm so glad Tia was able to join us and share her expertise for this conversation. To learn more about her and her work, be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy from Black Girl slash trans Dating, and don't forget to textas episode to two of your girls right now and encourage them to check it out. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas Elise Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me for this bonus episode. We'll be back with our regular episode next week. Take good care, what's

Therapy for Black Girls

The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
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