Session 51: Autism Awareness

Published Apr 4, 2018, 7:00 AM
Today's episode features my conversation with Dr. Cindy Graham, Licensed Psychologist. Dr. Cindy and I discussed some of the research surrounding the cause of Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), what parents should be on the lookout for in terms of symptoms, strategies used to help children and adults with ASD, and her thoughts about the depiction of ACD in pop culture.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, where we discussed all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. And while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session one of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. The month of April marks a celebration of lots of mental health awareness campaigns. This month, you'll see a lot about sexual assault, stress management, and autism, which is the topic of today's episode. Today, I'm joined by doctor Cindy Graham. Doctor Cindy is a licensed psychologist who practices in the state of Maryland. She received her bachelor's degree in psychology from Princeton University and her master's and pH d in clinical psychology from Louisiana State University. She has trained at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and the Kennedy Krieger Institute in the treatment of severe behavior problems such as aggression, property destruction, and self injury in kids with developmental disabilities. While at l s U, Doctor Cindy helped to develop tests to diagnose autism in children and adults. She has also written a chapter on intellectual disabilities in the book The Practice of Child Therapy and has been published in several journals, including the Journal of Neurology on topics pertaining to childhood disorders and severe behavior problems. As a Haitian American, Dr Cindy has a strong passion for increasing awareness of and access to psychological services in Haiti, and she recently founded the Brighter Hope Wellness Center. The mission of the center is to provide multidisciplinary treatment for children, teens, and adults with a particular focus on autism. Brighter Hope Wellness Center brings together different treatment approaches including psychotherapy, speech and language, occupational therapy, family therapy, and art therapy. Under one roof Dr Cindy and I discussed some of the research surrounding the cause of autism spectrum disorder or a s D. Parents should be on the lookout for in terms of symptoms, strategies used to help children and adults with a s D, and her it's about the depiction of a s D in pop culture. If you learn something new or here's something in the episode that you like to share with others, please share it on Twitter using the hashtag tb G in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Cindy, Thank you Joy so much for having me. I'm very happy to have you here today UM to talk about autism spectrum disorders, or a s D as it's called UM, and I think it is a really important topic for us to continue to discuss. You know, you see a lot in you know, in the news and the media about it, but I do think it's really important for people to get really accurate, good information. I'm happy you were able to join us to do this today. Thank you so much. I'm I am excited to talk about it and definitely especially lately, you know, we are hearing more about autism in the news with you know everything with a recent school shooting and UM, you know that tends to autism spectrum disorder tends to fly a lot more around situations like these. So I'm glad to try to you know, clear up any kind of misconceptions about what autism spectrum disorder, what a s D is and isn't. Okay, So if we could start by just talking about what the most current literature suggests about what causes a s D. Yes, so, and there's been a lot of controversy with respect to a s D and what causes it. UM And when we really look at the most objective UM research studies, when we look at the literature, really what we find is that there is not necessarily any one UM set cause. So I know, I can uh, you know, I can probably catch a lot from people the non vaccinating uh factions or the side of of of autism spectrum disorders. But UM, really, when we look at the literature very closely, and they've looked at broad based studies that really what we're looking at is that autism a s D is uh basically a group of disorders that have very common behavior behavioral symptoms. UM. It is neurological in nature, so there is something that does happen to brain functioning, brain structure that then causes UM this presentation of symptoms. But basically in terms of like pointing to anyone vaccine um poor vaccines in general. Really, the the the reputable research just can't point to that as being a factor. Okay. And then the name autism spectrum disorder is kind of new rights and the like called what was it called before? So it previously was called several several different disorders, so it was called autistic disorder, Asperger's disorder. There was also then childhood disintegrative disorder RETS disorder, and then pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified a mouthful, but it was actually five separate kinds of disorders that were kind of all under this one heading. And so with the latest revision of our diagnostic manual, they really moved more towards the idea of which we had been seeing for a long time. So I've been fortunate to be practicing in this field of a s D for twenty years now, twenty years this summer. Actually that um, really it's there's such a wide range in presentation, everything from individuals who are described as basically low functioning, meaning they are nonverbal, they're not able to speak words, they may use communication boards, um, they may be of a lower I Q all the way up to individuals that we consider high functioning, which means they're very highly verbal, average to above average intelligence UM. And so basically this latest revision just just provided UM a label that more accurately reflects what we already knew to be true in the field. The downside being that UM so there was a little bit of for individuals diagnosed with Asperger's disorder that was definitely the one that was associated the most with high functioning abilities with that didn't have UM the any language delay. So for a lot of individuals and and parents of kids who had kids diagnosed with Asperger's disorder Asperger syndrome, they felt basically cheated UM because this Aspergers now no longer exists in our diagnostic manual. It's just autism spectrum disorders. But ultimately, yeah, it's a movement to better reflect what UM, what we already knew in the field that there's a wide variety in UM in what you're gonna see in terms of autism spectrum and Cindy, my understanding is that one of the best treatments for a s Z is early intervention. UM so can you tell and you know, I even know, like with my own two little ones. You know, like they spot very early with the pediatrition asking about certain signs and is mayba doing certain kinds of things and so can you share some of the symptoms that parents should be on the lookout for and how early they would even be on the lookout for some of these things? Sure? Absolutely so really UM, at this point in time, we start, uh, we start evaluating for it and for anyone who does have a child. And when you hear the pediatrician asking about, okay, does your child look at you? Um, well, and this is starting as young as like six months, is something that we would These are things that we expect children and start to do. UM, that they're they're starting to look at you, They're starting to look at other things that you're looking at in the room. And then as they progress older, we start to look at certain language markers. So in session, what I tend to ask parents is um or is your child did your child starts speaking single words by one, two words sentences simple sentences obviously by two, and then three words by three. Um. So those are some of the very earliest markers, UM, that you want to look at, especially in the infants, to toddler. As they continue to progress, you want to start to see kids engage in imaginative or pretend to play. So really by you know, a year and a half, certainly um, by two years that they are able to take common household objects and pretend that there's something else. So for example, taking a brush and pretending that it's a microphone um, or taking a banana and pretending like it's a telephone. Um. Uh, you know, building a fort out of blankets. These are things that you we want to start seeing children do by about two years old. UM. Other behaviors that we start to see that um that are not necessarily so much about deficits but basically are about additional behaviors would be UM some of the more repetitive, repetitive behaviors, or really particular interests in something. So the repetitive behaviors can be anything from a child who is rocking back and forth, and there's a certain level of normalcy for children to do this because it is stimulating, but for a kid who may be on the autism spectrum, they will have multiple symptoms across these different areas, so repetitive behaviors, they might be very much obsessed with things that spin or with lights. They may be very sensitive to sounds. Two lights, UM, vacuums, coffee UH, coffee grinders UH. Those are some common things that kids who are on the autism spectrums start to present with very early on. UM. And then if they're not really engaging in play with other kids UM, as you would expect. So when kids are basically under about three years old, there isn't necessarily a lot of collaborative play. We call it more parallel play, but they're they're in the same space. They may be playing with two different things, but they're allowing each other to be in in in close proximity. And then as they get older three four five, we want to see more collaborative play where they're they're they'reing together with the same item, UM, taking turns and sharing. And so if your child isn't doing that, UM, that's certainly a marker UM. But but early on in infancy we are looking at UM more of the whereas the eye contact, how do they respond when they are being touched? UH, Kids who are on the autism spectrum we will tend to kind of pull away or react in just a different kind of way UM than neurotypical kids. It sounds like there are a lot of different factors that you'd be looking at. Here is indy, Um, what all is included in like an evaluation? Like how would this diagnosis actually be? Me? Yes, so it it comes from UH. We look at lots of different areas, and there are different professionals that can do this. So UM anyone from like a psychologist such as myself to developmental pediatricians. UH. Sometimes we actually find that kids who are showing a language delay are evaluated by a speach and language pathologist or UM if they're having some I forgot to mention gross motor concerns. So there can be gross motor delays UM with UH, with abilities to like finance, gross motor I should say, with picking up objects or walking running, Those are indicators. So sometimes it comes from other professionals like speech and language OT, but from a psychologist and a developmental pediatrician, what we would administer would be there are several different batteries that we can use. UM beyond well, sorry, let me back up. So actually pediatricians are often the first line UM, and so at the six months check up, at the year check up, at the eighteen months check up. Uh, if you fill out these kind of longer questionnaires. That's what these questionnaires are looking at. Their looking to screen for autism spectrum disorders. And then um, if there is enough enough concern there, then that pediatrician often will then recommend a developmental pediatrician or psychologist who will then uh uh kind of bring you in for an hour to two hour session in terms of the parents and ask them lots of questions more in detailed questions about how um, everything from the pregnancy to the birth delivery, uh and then all of the milestones, uh, in greater detail. So they're gonna be You're gonna be asked, you know, how how did your child crawl? How old were they when they were calling potty training? How did that go? Um? Do they seem to be obsessed or stuck on particular interests or certain things? Do they like to watch a scene over and over and over again? Um? And and and it's it can be quite lengthy. It can be grueling a little bit for parents, but it's it's very much worth it because it is important uh to start the help early. Because we really find that when you are able to catch kids early, so younger than three years old, they have the best trajectory in terms of outcome uh to where they have later on in their teen years, adult years, a more mild presentation for their for their variant of a s D. Okay, Cindy. So you know, I'm thinking about like a three year old and thinking like what kinds of things would you be doing with them even terms of the attention and you know their ability to do different things. So what kinds of strategies would you be using to help someone who's been diagnosed with Yeah, certainly. And so that's also why the the evaluation portion is really important because we also do an observation, so we really watch and see um where So, especially for the particular form of therapy that I use, applied behavior analysis, UH, we really look at what the child's strengths are, what the child's deficits are, and then we build the treatment plan from that. So you know, if we have a child who hits, who gets very angry and frustrated and hits others or throw things, throws things, um, and they have a very limited vocabulary, what we're gonna do is we're gonna work on functional communication training, meaning we're gonna work on helping them develop ways to communicate, everything from increasing verbalizations uh vocalizations to possibly teaching sign language if they are not uh developmentally able to use UM spoken word everything to communication boards. UH. So that's one example. UM we do. I we do do things like helping with transitions. That's a common issue that we find with kids diagnosed with a s D that they will have a tantrum when they when you know you have to turn off the TV and head out to go pick up a sibling from school. UM. So we will work with kids and teaching them how to tolerate transitions. We do a lot with reinforcers and motivation, so we use things like sometimes candy if need be. UM. We will use different toys and prizes, and it's again catered towards the child. So we will actually do what we call a preference assessment to see what types of things the child likes, and we look at the different modalities. We look at things that they can play with their hands, things that they can touch, things that they can um watch and look at things that they can smell and use those to reward the appropriate behaviors. UM. We also do them in naturalistic settings, so we take advantage of basically incidental learning, so what we call it UM, and we UM capitalize on naturalistic settings of play opportunities. And again it's it's a lot of reinforcement based. So when they engage in a behavior that we like, we go ahead and give them the reinforcer. They're really happy, and then they're motivated to do it again because they got something out of it. And UM. Yeah, you basically train up the skills and then you apply them. We generalize them, so then we apply them across different scenarios. Okay, so you're kind of going to where the charity is in the natural environment and you know, helping them kind of learn some of these and certainly group work as well, UM uh group work and that allows um, even for younger kids to have that parallel play with other kids. UM. Group work as especially helpful with children and teens UM as well, so that they can actually practice in real time UH some of the social skills UH techniques and recommendations that we make for them. UM. And so that group work is also a very valuable tool. Okay. And so I'm wondering, Cindy, UM you know, and I know that Asperger's is no longer like the technical classification. But I am wondering if because I'm just thinking about like people who may not have been diagnosed younger, right, like then you know, some of the signs may have been missing, or if they were more UM categorized with like as Bergers, you know, because maybe they were so intelligent, people miss some of these other signs. And so I'm curious about, like what that would look like for somebody who maybe has gone their entire life and so like college or older, and has never received a diagnosis and therefore no treatment for any of these concerns, Like what kind of things might they be struggling with if they've not been diagnosed, but you know, later in life they continue to struggle, right, Definitely, Yeah, that's the really important thing. And actually even in this last week, uh and in a few clients, I've been talking about this a little bit more so. One of the primary things is depression UM because for individuals who are high functioning, so people who used to be diagnosed as Asperger syndrome UM, they have we're looking at again that that UM high the average to high i Q level, So they have that awareness of like, Okay, why am I having a difficult time, um, making connections with friends or keeping friends. Um, why is it that I don't quite understand what's going on? Why don't I have a boyfriend or a girlfriend? Um? Or why is it difficult for me to interact with others? So I we will tend to see depression much more frequently um an adults. And then and then they'll there will also be concerns of yeah, I've always had a hard time with friendships, or I've only ever had like one good friend, or I prefer to be by myself. Um. Sometimes they'll start to feel more overwhelmed, especially if they did come from like a smaller school setting um where their classrooms weren't necessarily large, and if they are in college and it's bigger, it's noisier, they start to find that they have difficulty just being in that classroom setting. UM. So those are some of the things. And then also actually another interesting time where I tend to uh encounter adults who wonder about their own diagnosis is when they have a child that presents very much more so with symptoms of autism and they're like, well, I do that too, and I do that too, and I do that too. And you know, there have been some times where I've had to have a discussion with the parents themselves about, yeah, let's talk a little bit more about uh, your experiences and uh you know maybe you know, basically supports that they can look into for themselves or fur their testing for them to to flesh that out a little bit more. So. Yeah, it's as it's either kind of like in that college that college age kid um or sometimes as late as like parenthood where they start to realize that got it, okay. And I'm thinking, you know, just like many things, um, that would impact childhood, right, like when you have a child that sick in some way or impaired or having you know, some struggles in some way, that causes a ruple effect for the family. Right. And I'm wondering, um about any work you do or any ideas you have about like how this impacts parents and siblings and you know other caregivers in the family. Sure. Yeah, and it has a very large impact. And that is UM often the first so particularly with I should say with African American families, with black families that um, black kids are actually diagnosed with autism at a lower rate than UM their Caucasian counterparts. And there you know, UH many reasons of that, everything from how behaviors from black children are interpreted differently. UM, they're more likely to be diagnosed with something like oppositional defiant disorder UM sometimes even conduct disorder a d h D. They're more likely to be diagnosed with that then ontism spectrum disorder. So the first part really UM for those families that that might not even realize the full scope, is helping them to understand really the struggle that they're having is above and beyond an oppositional defiant disorder or a d h D UM, and that often provides a good amount of relief for families because in just knowing that UM and having that knowledge that uh, you know this is this is a significant and not to say that a d H d D are not significant, but that at least with UH with a s D, it does require a higher level of support. So that tends to be first and then for moms UM or the primary caregiver and often is UH it is moms helping them to make sure that they're also taking care of themselves UM. Oftentimes they will then also struggle with depression or in anxiety UH whether or not they have a partner also involved in the processes is significant. So I do ask about the structure of the family and the level of support from UH the spouse or significant other UM or the child's other parents, because that burnout is very real UM when it comes to parents of kids with a s d UH siblings, that becomes another concern as well, because lots of times UM and my always goes out to the siblings who kind of come in and they start to feel more jealous of the amount of time that I'm spending with their brother and sister or sister UH, and they often ask to see someone themselves. Will start to see then UH some acting out behaviors from siblings, which then adds a new layer for parents to have to cope with and deal with. So that becomes really hugely important. That's a lot of work that UM. I also try to make sure that I bring to the attention of parents and provide avenues of support for for mom, for dad. UH. Sometimes grandparents are the primary caregivers because parents have to work UM, and so that can be tremendously UH stressful for a grandparent who's trying to keep up with a young child who's struggling with an autism spectrum disorder. Uh, so it really is for me. It really is about trying to find UM support for every member of the family so that they are working UM at their best or as best as possible, given you know, the level of stressors that they have. Right, it does seem like it would be important to really try to bring in as many like support people as possible, especially like if there is a sibling, UM like you mentioned in the picture who's feeling jealous or I leved that in some way exactly. Yeah, and and that's definitely work that that I YEA enjoy doing and providing UM. Uh, you know, making sure that that we have all of our bases covered. I am I'm one of those people that I like to h I'm a jack of all trades and I try to master as many as I can so UM and making sure that I'm I'm I'm covering all angles for my clients as well. So right, so you kind of mentioned earlier on Cindy, UM, you know that we have been hearing more about this in the news, UM, and that it does seem that a s D will often come up around like some of these school shooting's. Do you have any ideas about like why they it is? Yeah, because I think there's a lot of misconception, unfortunately still about what autism spectrum disorder is and isn't. And it's this belief that, oh, if someone doesn't want to or doesn't function well in society, they they must have autism. And um, autism is diagnosed at a pretty high rate. I believe it's one in uh let's see one in fifty two boys. I believe maybe one in forty eight boys, and one in one hundred and change kids in general. So um My my belief is that it is overdiagnosed. But at the same time, I do believe that they are kids that are falling through the cracks. Uh. So it can be very easy to say, Okay, a kid is not interacting well with peers, they have a s D. UM, and it's it's not that simple. So um. And unfortunately it paints an extremely negative picture of a s D because um and in individuals who struggle with it. Because these individuals who are committing these tragic days, these school shootings, these mass shootings, they are outliers regardless um, regardless of their diagnosis and it's just you know, it's it's interesting. I'm trying not to get angry. I really get kind of fired up about this because it's just so, it's just so, it's just unfair, um, you know, to say, Okay, they they don't they're not they're not interacting well with others. They're they're they're acting in a way that doesn't make sense to the rest of us. So let's let's call it this, and autism spectrum disorder is um, it's a it's it's a unique set of uh of individuals who are not neurotypical. But that doesn't mean that they are, you know, any more likely to commit these types of crimes than any other person. Um. And really, if anything, they would be less likely, um to do such things. So yeah, I think unfortunately our society has that notion. But then at the same time, like there are we do see depictions in on TV and in movies of autism spectrum disorder are like back in the day when I was coming up, rain Man was the call. I love that movie, uh um and um. But at the same time, they're they're so one of the things that people often attached to a s D is what we call the savant skill. So where you have these really special abilities. UM. There's this one person I believe where uh, I believe it's an African American male. I can't remember his name, but he goes into helicopters, UM, you know, does fly overs of cities and then can recreate the cities from memory, UM via drawings and it's absolutely beautiful. So that is what we call a savant skill. Like that is uh. Individuals with autism spectrum disorder sometimes will have that, but it's not the case for every person who has an autism spectrum disorder. UM. With rain Man, it was that he could remember facts and dates really well. And it is very intriguing and and I've worked with some kids on the autism spectrum who have these types of skills. You can you can pick a date in history and they'll tell you what day of the week it fell on, and you can look it up and it'll be right. And they just did it, you know, right there in the moment um. Sometimes they'll have musical skills that are just very profound and advanced. UM, but they're very rare. Uh. And there are a few UM. I don't know if people watched it but Parenthood, Like, I love that show, Uh Parenthood has they did? I felt a really good depiction of autism spectrum disorder. One of the sons had a s D, and I thought they captured it well. Um, they often do show that the person doesn't engage in eye contact. So for anybody who does watch The Good Doctor nowadays, Um, the lead character Sean Murphy, he often doesn't make eye contact. And while that is a symptom of autism spectrum disorder, it's not. It's a person can have perfectly good eye contact and still be diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders. So there are certain things that will and to be played up a lot for purposes of TV and movies because it makes a good story. Um, that will perpetuate that idea. So um, there there are plenty of individuals with a s D who have great eye contact, who enjoy hugs, um who yeah, who who do get along and have a wide range of friends. It just might be sometimes that um, they don't quite understand all the jokes within the friendships, so they don't pick up on all the subtle you know, like body language, like neurotypical people would. So yeah, there's a lot of there are a lot of misconceptions out there unfortunately, but parenthood and I think the Good Doctor overall, when you take out all the all the drama, that it does a fair depiction of it. So, Cinday, what are some of your favorite resources for anybody who wants to learn more about a s D? Like, any groups or websites for parents, books that you enjoy, What kinds of things would you suggest? Yeah, definitely. So A website that I like is the Autism Society of America UM. They have on their website on an a s D toolkit, So basically if your child has received that diagnosis, you can go to that website downloaded and it provides a whole host of resources available for parents. UM. I am in Maryland, and so Maryland is a really really um good state UM in terms of like the support that they provide so specific to Maryland for any Maryland listeners. Uh, there's Pathfinders for Autism, which is a website as well that UM is basically a directory for different providers everything from applied behavior analysis, early intervention. I believe they're even speech language ot UM, in home support, clinic support. Uh. It just provides a whole host of information that's really great. UM. Parents should absolutely look into other types of like federal and state support. So again in Maryland, there's um d D, a so Developmental Disabilities Association that provides some monetary funds. UM. There's a very long wait list, but it's still worth it to get on it. Um UH. There's also like low Intensity Support Services lists is the abbreviation here in the state of Maryland. That's a great resource. So wherever you're living, I would say that definitely to UM reach out to try to find someone who has a specialty and autism spectrum disorders and they'll be able to lead you to that UM. With respect to some books that I really like UM, Tony Atwood is a great author who has written a lot on Asperger syndrome, so pretty much anything that he's written it would be a great resource for understanding, especially like High Functioning a s D. Books that UM I like to refer to parents UM include on parenting the strong willed child. It gives a really good kind of like step by step method of how to ignore the inappropriate behaviors of the tantrums while UM reinforcing appropriate behaviors, but then still moving forward with what you need your child to do. Uh, so that's a great resource. Parenting s OS is another great book for that as well. Um. There are some potty training books that are great um to use as well, um, basically potty Training in the Rapid Potty Training Method. Uh and I'm sure we'll link it, You'll link it in the show notes. So yeah. Um so those are some really good resources that I like. I have to admit that because I am a mom myself, I don't have a whole lot of time for podcasts. Um so uh straight up Therapy for Black Girls as one of the few that I listened to right now. Um. But there are a few other resources on like Facebook, um of some of of some individuals who provide helpful support basically their speech and language people or or teachers that um that fight examples of like how to structure your I e p s and um how to advocate. Oh I guess that was a whole other topic to I e p S. But um that Yeah, so those are the things that I I turned to the most. It would be like the as I mentioned, the Parenting the Strong Will Child books by Tony Atwood, and then resources for me like resources is number one, because when I do see parents, they are, um, you know, they're often financially UM. Sometimes I should say, in the population that I see financially uh kind of struggling and needing that um that support. So those would be the things that I would I would recommend. Yeah, and of course, like you mentioned, all this will be included in the show notes. UM. So, is there any news or anything going on with your practice that you want to share for people to kind of get more information about. Sure? Absolutely so. I have begun my practice the Brighter Hope Wellness Center, and we are dedicated to helping individuals who are diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder and also their families. So, UM, I'm really trying to draw from my experience, uh you know, working in hospital settings up at Hopkins and Kennedy Creeker UM, and my experiences over the last several years in private practice and kind of bringing it all together under one roof UM. And the goal is to also have a speech and language services occupational therapy. UM. We're also uh you know, I'm definitely uh ready to um start filling my groups. So social skills groups is something that I'm looking to get going with teens young adults uh first and then we'll expand out to the kiddos. UM and I'm very excited to be working on that because it is, you know, getting me back to my my passions work wise. So certainly if you want more information about that, the website is Brighter Hope Wellness dot com. Uh And I'm also on uh my practices on you know, uh Twitter, Facebook, Instagram at Brighter Hope WC. And you also have a podcast that is starting career. I do, yes, yes, we are finishing up like our first few episodes and working on the editing. And it's called Brighter Podcast. And you can go to Brighter podcast dot com to sign up and to know when the when the episodes will be dropping, which will be very very soon over the next couple of weeks. And uh so our goal I have a co host this season. Her name is Kimberly Nixon. We're actually friends, we know each other in real life. We have boys who have known each other since they were too And so our goal really is to UM help people basically take therapy out of the therapy room and back into everyday life, to help people to see that you don't have to be diagnosed with anxiety or depression UM to necessarily to benefit from psychotherapy and these tips. It's really for everybody, so we're really trying to help um spread word about how you can apply tips from therapy into your everyday life. And it's called the Brighter Podcast and it's also on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram at Brighter podcast Perfect and that will be included in the show notes as well. Well. Thank you so much for your time today, Cindy. I really appreciate it. Thank you, It's a lot of fun. Thank you so much for having me on. You're welcome. I'm very thankful doctor was able to join us today and do hope that you'll check out her website and podcast to keep up with all the cool things she's doing. You can find all of that information in the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session. If you'd like to continue the conversation started here on the podcast, make sure to join us over in the Facebook community at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash tribe, and please be mindful that there are three questions that you need to answer for your approved to join the group. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to check out the therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. I'm always thrilled when you all tag me on social media, so let me know you found your therapist in the directory. I'm so happy it's been a great resource for so many of you. Please keep sharing the news about the podcast with your friends and family. Word of mouth has been the single largest way people have found out about the podcast, so I love it if you shared your favorite episode with at least three new people this week. I'll be back next week for session fifty two and will also be officially celebrating one year of the podcast. Next week. I'll have some exciting news about how we're officially going to mark the occasion. Until next time, take it care A doctor, I doctor, doctor, I doctor, doctor doctor

Therapy for Black Girls

The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 473 clip(s)