Session 49: Angry Black Women

Published Mar 21, 2018, 7:00 AM
This week's episode features Patrice N. Douglas, LMFT. Patrice and I discussed where the stereotype of the angry black woman came from, how you can tell if you have an issue with anger, strategies for using anger productively, and how you can get better at talking about your emotions before you become angry.

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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, where we discuss all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. And while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session forty nine of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. If you are a sister in your life has ever been called an angry black woman, then today's episode is for you. As our good Cis Solange stated, we got a lot to be mad about, but of course there are productive and unproductive ways to manage our anger. Patrese in Douglas joins us today to share more about the productive ways we can process our anger. Patrese is a licensed marriage and family therapist, certified Anger Management Specialists, an owner of Empire Counseling and Consultation in California, New York and Texas. She has a graduate degree in counseling psychology from cal Baptist University and is currently attending the Chicago School of Professional Psychology in Los Angeles for a c i d. In Applied Clinical Psychology. Her specialties are anger management, minority mental health, men's issues, anxiety and depression. Patrise and I discussed where the stereotype of the angry black woman came from, how you can tell if you have an issue with anger, how you can get better at talking about your emotions before you become angry, and strategies for using your anger productively. Here's our conversation. Thanks so much for joining us today, patres Hey, thank you for having me so I'm glad you were able to join us today to talk about a topic that I think we need to have, you know, continue to have some conversation around, and that is anger. And so of course when you talk about anger and black women, the thing that comes up most often is the stereotype of the angry black woman. So where do you think this stereotype comes from, and do you think it's warranted. I think the perspective of the anger black woman came up when, um, when women black women specifically are addressing you know, topics. They might be more expressive in their body language, you know, their hand movements, their voice might raise up a little bit. We really don't put a filter on how we feel. And so I think, you know, other communities take that as being aggressive and it's not. But at the end of the day, being that it's eighteen the angry black woman isn't warranted. Yes, we are constantly battling, you know, trying to coexist in a work environment we have, you know, even our own community, you know, um, the black men, they're saying that, you know, we're too bossy, We're to this, We're to that. So it seems like everyone is always attacking the black woman. And so when we look at it from an anger perspective, yeah, it frustrates us that we always have to defend ourselves as black woman. So is the anger, you know, warranted? Absolutely? In fact, I actually take power and when people call me an angry black woman because I'm like, you know what, I am angry. I'm angry that you know, you you perceive me as this way, you treat me like this. I always have to defend myself. I always have to be on guard and I am in about it, but I use my anger for good and creative change, very nice for trees. And yeah, I mean I think you know, we often only hear the fact that old black women are so angry without people are really realizing, like we might have a lot to be angry about, absolutely a lot to be angry about. So when black women come and tell me, you know, I'm so angry, I'm like, you know what, everything you're angry about is valid, But instead of using it negatively, let's figure out way to use it for good so that change can occur so that you won't feel this way all the time, right, right, So, how would somebody know if they are truly having an issue managing their anger? I mean, because you know, anger is normal. We all get angry at some point. But how would somebody know if they really are having an issue managing their anger? So there are some signs, um one is being that it's lasting too long. So if you find yourself all day, every day in this heightened anger state where everything that you come across or anything that anyone says to you makes you frustrated to the point where you want to lash out, maybe you want to curse. Maybe you even want to threaten a few people with you know violence, Um, that is a sign that you know your anger is out of control. If your boss is coming to you and saying, you know, hey, so and so is saying that you're always having any you know, these verbal altercations with them you know they feel uncomfortable, or even your relationship, your partner saying every time I have something to tell you, you always wash out at me. These are signs that you know what your anger is kind of getting out of control, and it's time to start figuring out what you can do to address it. And do you have any thoughts about like why some of them, why some of that happens? You know, like some of us probably do an okay job managing the anger, and then some of us, obviously, like you mentioned, have issues where it impacts that relationships and impacts work. Do you have any ideas about why that might be. I think, specifically in the black community, is that we feel like we're strong individuals, so we'll let things pole up, pile up, pile up until it can't pile up anymore and explodes. So what I've learned and observed is that most of the time people that you know lash out anger the thing that is actually happening in the moment, that's not where they're lashing out anger. They're just so overwhelmed that this was the last straw, and whoever was in the room at the time just got all the heat from everything they've been experiencing over time, Right, Yeah, I mean it's just kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back, right, and you just happened to be the one that did it, and so you get the unleeash of bomb of this anger. Pretty much like if somebody comes home and you've had a long day and all you wanted, you know, your baggage chips, and your husband ate your baggae chips, You've got to go off. It really wasn't about the baggage chips per se. It was about you know, your boss getting on you, your co workers talking behind your back, your kids aren't doing well in school, your friends are acting up. But the chips was the last thing, and so your husband just got all the frustration of your whole week based off of chips. So I often hear that anger is a secondary emotion, right, that it covers something else. Do you feel like this has been true in your experience, and how can we help to kind of dig into whatever that primary emotion is. Absolutely, Um, it's a secondary emotion because we are often afraid to express how we really feel. So when someone gets angry, it's usually because they were offended. Um, maybe somebody says something they didn't like, or they're just frustrated. So instead of saying, you know, you really hurt my feelings when you said that, or I'm really frustrated that I feel like you're not understanding me, we lash out and attack the other person. And that's where the anger looks like a shield. Like everything else that we're really feeling, sadness, fear, vulnerability, we're not showing that. So the anger is the front, is on the forefront, the front lines, and that's what everybody is seeing. I think if we were more acceptable of accepting other people's feelings and addressing it by not calling the weak or sensitive when they really express how they feel, I think a lot of our anger could be in control. Yeah, and I think a lot of times, you know, because there is this angry black woman's stereotype, it feels natural and are almost acceptable for us to kind of go to the angry place, but it is less acceptable, like you mentioned, for us to maybe be sad or sensitive, so anger feels like, okay, this will be more socially acceptable. So this is where I'm going to start. Absolutely. I mean the model in the black community is, you know, our ancestors, our grandparents, our parents went through way more than we had, Like suck it up, handle it, be strong, you gotta do what you gotta do. This is how the life is for you know, the average black person. But that doesn't excuse us from being human and having emotions. So we have to be fake tough all the time. And I think that's what you know, really weakens us and wounds us, is that we can't be in touch to say, you know what, I just I feel really sad today because of A B and C. Or you know what, I feel really frustrated because I just feel like giving up. So we we use our anger of you know, maybe attacking other people's characteristics or even saying, you know what, if you don't do this and do that, I'm gonna threaten you with a B and C. Those are just our defense mechanisms to really just say, like, please help me out, I'm not I'm not feeling this and I don't know what to do. So what are some of the tips and strategies that you can offer, you know that maybe you use with your clients that may be helpful for other people around managing their anger. Well, the first that I always start with my clients is um educating them on how anger really occurs, because I don't think we fully understand that when anger hits our body, it happens within three seconds. So within those three seconds, you're not listening to anybody. Your body is going hot, You're in attack mode, your fight or flight response is activating. So what I always tell them in the initial response, because you once you kind of identify what your triggers are as to why you react the way you do, you can actually um see it and try to minimize it. So when you feel angry, I tell them, you know, count to ten, take some deep breaths, really tune into what the person is saying. Because when our anger UM, when our anger is alerted, we're not really listening to what the other person saying. We're just waiting for their mouths and stop moving so we can attack that UM. So that is the first step that I always educate them on how you know anger works. They can identify like, hey, this happened really fast. I need to slow myself down so I really understand what's happening so that I can identify if I want to move forward in this way, so you're looking at consequences or maybe I just misunderstood the person, so that you can calm yourself down. The other techniques and things that I use in anger management is tools on forgiveness. A lot of times our anger is channeled towards people out of wrongness, and we have a hard time letting it go. So we need to talk about forgiveness and what forgiveness is. As far as it's more of releasing the emotional stress on yourself and not really letting the other person get away with it. That's not the point of forgiveness. Um. I also talk about how to deal with other angry people. So if you're around a bunch of angry people nine times in attend, that's gonna rub off on you and you're gonna start to get angry. So learning how to paraphrase and fully understand what other people are saying and not engaging and you know, the big outbursts. UM that helps control your anger as well. Another big part that we talk about anger management easy emotional intelligence. And I love that where because it just sounds so prestigious, but it's just empathy. We talk about putting ourselves in someone else's shoes A lot of times. When we can put ourselves in someone else's shoes, we can kind of understand where they're coming from. That maybe they're not coming from a place of hurt or trying to hurt us, they're just maybe not fully explaining themselves or they're hurt is well, So having those tools can actually help you understand the other person and not lash on anger so quickly. Those are the basics that I use for anger management with my clients. So can you talk more about the emotional intelligence piece, Like, how do you go about UM teaching someone that emotional intelligence. The first thing with emotional intelligence is the active listening skills. So you gotta be, you know, listening to that person and really understanding what they're talking about. Because what happens is when we're in a confrontation or argument, our ears are shut off. We're not really listening to what the other person that says. We're actually preparing for what we're about to say back to them, so we could be missing some vital information. So listening to them paraphrasing back what they say, so, for example, UM, you can say so what I hear you saying is is blah blah blah. It's actually um engaging you in the conversation with them, and they even feel supported that you're actually listening to them and understanding what they're saying and even saying something as UM, you know, I can totally see how you know you would feel that way, or you know I'm here to support you. That just creates an environment of positivity and not the back and forth conflict. So emotional intelligence is something that I personally use all the time, and I think that helps me to be a more effective therapist. But overall, it just keeps me in a better place in space and in my heart and my mind everywhere I go. Because everyone is dealing with something, Everyone has problems, people handle it a different way. But if I can literally imagine myself in someone else's place in that particular moment, my compassion, you know, heightens up to a twenty. I feel really bad for them. I want to help them more than hurt them. And I think that's why emotional intelligence is extremely important in decreasing your anger and just being more under standing of people around you. Yeah, so you know, the strategies that you're offering, it seems like work really well. Probably, you know, like if you can kind of name like what you're angry about, or like if it's directed towards a particular person. But I'm wondering more about the anger that, as you mentioned in the beginning, like comes more from things like institutional racism or um, you know, just kind of continuing oppression like that doesn't necessarily have a person attached to it. So how do you, like suggest managing some of your anger related to those things. Well, every every party anger has a trigger. So whether it's someone bringing up you know that you're a black woman, or you know, how you carry yourself, or even you know, the politics in the world, there's a trigger for everything. Do you have to be mindful and ask yourself, why does this offend me so badly? Is it because I feel like it hits home? Do I feel like, um, maybe they're you know, they're attacking my personality. Is it that I'm just so overwhelmed with hearing all this negativity all the time, you really have to identify why does it bother you so much? And once you're able to identify why it bothers you so much, then you can come up with a plan as to how to really work with yourself as to not to let it bother you so much, as well as what can you do to change it, Because that's the question we have to really ask even going into a conflict with someone or getting angry, is why am I so upset about this? In my moody sometimes? I mean, let's be honest, our our moods changed throughout the month. When you know our minstrel flow is flowing, we're extra sensitive or extra moody. So you really have to identify, like, why is this making me so upset? If you really don't have a reason as to why it's making you upset, then what's all the hoop law about? Why are you? Why? Why are you so agitated? You really have to identify what is the real reason as to why you feel that way. Once you're able to identify that, then you can fool you can kind of understand and and change what needs to happen so that you can go back to a normal state of just feeling good. And so what what about somebody who does have trouble kind of getting to the like basis for their anger, because I can imagine that could be the case for some people that they just really can't, you know, name automatically where it's coming from. What do you typically do maybe with clients who have trouble kind of getting to where the anger is coming from? So we definitely have conversations. I asked them about their day. Um, there are some assessment tools that I asked, like, you know, what are the things that you do when you get angry, whether it's lashing out, cursing, praying, staying silent. I try to get to the baseline of the behavior. What happened before you got there and when you got there and you got angry? What was it that made you angry? Did you feel attacked? Did you feel sad? Do you feel embarrassed? Once they're able to really say, you know what, I was really upset because I felt like they weren't understanding me. I was hurt that they were portraying me to be something that I wasn't. That's how we can get in touch with that, Okay, so the real emotion was you were hurt? Why did it hurt you? So once we're able to break it down, and I mean this takes sessions, Like no one comes into anger management the first or second session knowing what makes them angry. But it takes time. But you need someone to kind of help you unpack and you know, remove the layers to really see what is the real emotions that you're feeling, especially if you haven't been in touch with them for almost all your life. It's almost like a therapy session. You're really trying to learn your emotions. And once you learn your emotions, you're able to identify what particular things set you on fire. Got it? So? I know that we often here about like anger management um as like a mandated kind of thing, right, So people typically go to anger management kinds of programs because they've been required to do so by some outside party, whether that be like a law enforcement kind of thing or a partner who said you need to go get some anger management kind of classes. So I'm wondering if you have any tips for like, you know, like what kinds of things do you do with clients who would likely rather be anywhere else? Well, you know that's funny because I would say probably of my practice is court mandated and the other part is, you know, voluntary. They came on their own. UM. What I think helps them stay connected is that majority of the people that I see are on individual basis. I think sometimes UM people get a little fearful about being in a group and being around a bunch of angry people because that's the stereotype that everybody that's angry is hitting people, or they're so outrageous that now they have to come to anger management, which may not necessarily be the case. So I've learned that doing individual sessions on a one on one basis really getting a full idea of who they are and accepting who they are and letting them know that, hey, I think you came to anger management because you wanted to stop being angry. Well, that's not why you're here. I'm here to channel your anger for good, use it for good and not for bad. I think that keeps them engaged in wanting to be in the room. Because I have clients that you know, have to come for fifty two weeks a whole year, and they're there every week. I have yet to have a client that keeps bailing on me. They truly enjoy anger management. So I really don't know what I do to engage people that don't want to be there because I don't have anybody. I don't want to be there. But they did have to come because they were forced. But after they get in the room, they're like, you know what, I needed to be here. As much as I want to say I am an angry person, I am angry person, and I'm glad that I'm here. So it actually works out. Yeah, And I wonder, um, if individual sessions, do you know, like maybe are more effective then group because if you're already struggling with, like the predominant emotion that you're using is anger because you are fearful of appearing week in front of other people, then when you're in a group and you have to share maybe some of those emotions that are really driving your anger, you might be likely to want to participate, whereas an individual with just you, it may feel a little more comfortable to share some of those things that are really underneath the anger. Absolutely because here you are, you know, you gotta either come here because you want to and you're in the room with ten people or you're forced to come and everybody in the room has an anger problem and nobody wants to talk about it because they don't want to be looked at as a negative person versus you know, coming into an individual session and literally you feel like you're in a safe environment to really express how you express yourself. I think that group works a If you know you're on a really strict budget and you can't afford individual sessions all the time, that might be, you know, the gateway to how you can get help. Another way is maybe you've done some individual sessions and you kind of need that that refresher course or that like aftercare where you got all your sessions, but you're still struggle a little bits. You kind of need some support of some people that know what you're going through. So you're in the group and you're able to you know, talk about it and get some perspective from other people. I think that's when group is most effective. Got it? So, what are some of your favorite resources related to anger management? Pictures? My favorite resources, Well, there is a curriculum that I use. It's called What's Good About Anger? And what I like about it is that the author and creator of the curriculum is a Christian, so she often uses UM scriptures in her curriculum. And there's also like a little book that you can take with you just to kind of refresh your memory about what we talked about and just kind of coach you UM through the different parts of anger management. So so what's good about anger resource book is really helpful. UM. There's a lot of resources through the National Anger Management Association, which I'm credential through. That's where my certification is. They have a lot of articles, they have a lot of UM quick five, you know, step techniques to you know, de escalate, breathing techniques, UM that you can use. Those are pretty much my go to for anger And honestly, just this is gonna sound really we're but a lot of resources that I like to use for anger management is reality TV. So Love and hip hop is like my number one resource to go to for anger because I think a lot of people can identify UM with how they react and how they can get in trouble. I US, I love to use Love and Hip Hop for an example of what can happen if you don't get it together. You can have this image of people thinking that you know, you're this pop off queen, or you know, you can lose friends, you can lose endorsement, you can use a lot of things. So I actually use reality TV as good examples for how your anger can get you in trouble. Yeah, and I think you know, of course, as much as there is a debate between like how scripted versus unscripted those things are, I do think that if it's somebody who like watches the show faithfully, they have enough of a backstory that you would be able to probably talk through in session about Okay, what kinds of choices could they have made differently in this session, in this situation so that it didn't result in like a fight or something like that. Absolutely, Especially UM the men for UM for Mary to Medicine, I use them a lot because they can kind of identify for when their wife or something might you know, have that loud, getting your face type of moment and how they feel or how they want to stand back, and what they do when you know, they try to avoid a conflict and their wife just she ain't having it. She really want to just address it now. I use Married to Medicine a lot for my male clients because they can totally identify I with the men and you know, being quiet and not really wanted to say anything, but they want to put it into some things. So I definitely think that reality TV, scripted or not, is a really good base for a your management, also for the millennials, because even I noticed when I was watching you know, LEVI and hip hop and all these shows religiously, you know, when I was a little younger, I started talking like them, like, oh, I need to have a conversation with this person or you know, this and this and that, And my mom looked at me like, that's you know, don't get caught up in that reality stuff. That's not how life really works. So sometimes our anger and how we we handle things actually stems from what we've learned off TV, which is not the greatest thing. So being able to use it and identify, you know, how it's rubbing off on my clients is really helpful to so I can help them navigate themselves back to the right things to do. Are there any other shows that you really like, UM to use in cases like this? So we got love in hip Hop, We have definitely Housewives of Atlanta Married to Medicine, UM. You know, even it doesn't even have to be a black show. Like I even use, um, what is it, vander Pump Rules just about to say that would be a perfect one. I use them, um, definitely, because I think that's the difference in kind of you know, the difference between babe what they say, like white anger looks like versus black anger looks like. UM, So, I definitely use vander Pump Rules. UM. I've even used The Real Housewives in New York. I used all of them, you know, and I write about them a lot too. I've even used um litha weapon UM that comes on Fox. UM, I use them, I use I can use any show and pretty much highlight anger management. But VH one and Bravo like, that's my that's my haven of resources. Yeah. They give you plenty of material to work with, right they do. So are there any um new programs, are exciting things coming out of your practice that you want to share more information about? UM? So there are there have been a few things that have been going on. UM. Last week I took my licensing exams, so I am officially licensed in the state of California. UM So, my practice was mainly on stress management and anger management. But it will be focusing more into the anger management and mental health pieces because they definitely do go hand in hand. UM. In January, I launched my same practice, Empire Counseling and Consultation, in New York, so I do offer anger management on an online basis for anyone in New York. UM. In April, I will be launching Empire in Texas, so anyone in California, Texas or New York can actually reach out to me through an online platform and I can actually give them anger management, whether it's voluntary or you need it for court perfect anything else. I think that's pretty much it. UM. I am in the process of UM creating some more online tools for anger management for people of color. It's not really ideal to have a program where you just sit in front of a computer and kind of listen to me talk and it's like a recording or you know, you're reading online, you're really not grasping the knowledge versus like a live conversation. So I am creating an online anger management group where you can just click in through your computer and you can have a conversation within a group, and it is specifically tailored to black people. UM because I think a lot of the curriculums that are using anger management, especially even mine, is not geared towards um our people. So I have to change the verbiage. So it's so we can, I guess, better understand ourselves because a lot of the things that are in the anger management book that we do, they would consider it as being like severely angry. Pretty everyone that I assess for my curriculum is severely angry, and I know that's not the case, so I often have to modify things. So having you know, more minority based anger management groups and classes UM I think would be more beneficial in us understanding how to channel our anger for good. So those are things that I am working on, you know, And you just brought up a good point for ture, he said, I don't know that I had thought about, um, like the importance of like having people of color actually be the ones who are running the anger management programs, because you know, if it were somebody else who didn't maybe understand cultural pieces or the nuance related to maybe people of color being in therapy and anger management and they are scoring as significantly angry or severely angry, if that's what the words you use then that can have a whole whole st of ramifications, right like, especially if it's a court ordered kind of thing, um, and then it looks like maybe they're not making progress when really there are some cultural pieces that are being missed. Absolutely. I mean the first thing, you know, and most anger management curriculums are raising your voice. Okay, yeah, but when black people, even me, when I get excited, like my voice get tired, that doesn't mean I'm mad at you or that I'm trying to overpower you. I'm just really passionately excited about what's happening. So even just that in itself, just saying that that's a bad trait of anger, I'm like, not necessarily for black people. That can go either way. So I think, you know, being mindful and really understanding where we come from as a people and what it looks like to be, you know, at our normal state versus our heightened state is very important, and most curriculums don't offer you know, that variance, even for Hispanic communities the same thing. So I think that's why my practice is predominantly UM African American and Hispanic because I'm able to kind of take the shame out of how they responded things and just you know, rewired a different way. I think that's why, um, people enjoy coming to me because I don't come from a shameful place. I fully understand where they're coming from because I deal with it every day is myself as well. Yeah, So are there some other things that you've noticed like that? Um, like some cultural pieces that come up in the curriculum, like like you mentioned the raising the voice. Are there other like examples you've noticed walking away? Um? Well, I mean they teach an anger manage all the time. You know, if you ain't feeling it, walk away, But there's a there's a method to walking away. Um. I think the walking away and still saying stuff under your breath are still talking. They equate that as to being a negative, which it could be. But if we're just walking away, like can we just walk away? I think even that stance that you're making decision to walk away from a conversation that's making upset even though you're still talking as you're walking away, I still think that's a plus in our book, but in their book, it's still a negative. So I mean it's just really understanding how we just really communicate with one another, and like it goes back to the angry black woman. I think the curriculums have a perception of how black people handle themselves, so everything that we do is considered negative almost, so I have to go and rewrite what we're about to talk about that you don't feel that way. Yeah, so you might as well come up with your own curriculum, like you mentioned pretty much. So where can we find you online? Picture? So, what's your website in any social media handles that you'd like to share? Well, you can't find me on Therapy for Black Girls. Um, I do have a website. UM, if you want to look at my personal website, it's www dot patrese in Douglas dot com. If you want to look at the services that I offer, UM, that's Empire Counseling dot net. You can find me on Instagram at the Patrese Nicole. You can find me on Facebook, UM at patrese in Douglas. Twitter is the same name, so I'm everywhere. You can always shoot me an email as well. If you go to my website, you can shoot me email or you can d in me on Instagram. I'm pretty accessible and willing to talk to anyone that has any questions or comments about anger or anything else mental health related. Perfect, Thank you so much for trees. Thank you for having me so you know, I can't wait to hear what y'all thought about all of the incredible information that Patres shared in this episode. Make sure to check out all the resources that she mentioned at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Session forty nine. Please share your thoughts with us on social media by using the hashtag tv G in session, and make sure you tag our accounts. You can find us on Twitter at Therapy for the Number four be Girls, and you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Therapy for Black Girls. If you want a place to chat about the episode with other listeners are to discuss topics that are relevant to you, join us over in the tribe. You can find it at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash tribe and please note that there are a few questions that you have to answer before you're accepted into the community, so make sure that you don't miss that step. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to check out the therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory and please continue to show your love for the podcast by sharing it in your Instant stories on Twitter and by texting it to your friends who also need to check it out. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please also consider leaving us a review. Thanks again so much for joining me this week, and I'm looking forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take get care doctor I doctor doctor doctor doctor I doctor

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