Brian talks with Dr. Margaret Diddams, former provost at Wheaton College and co-author with Shirley Mullen of the new book Tried and True: The Countercultural Virtues of Christian Leadership. Drawing on her background in organizational psychology and years consulting with senior pastors, Margaret describes what she calls the "four horsemen of self-deception" — exhaustion, isolation, defensiveness, and entitlement — that drive so much of the moral failure and burnout plaguing church leadership today. She diagnoses the root problem as an individualistic, strengths-based leadership model borrowed from the business world rather than one oriented toward God's kingdom, and uses the life of John Wesley as a case study in surrendered, God-facing leadership rather than self-reliant leadership. Margaret unpacks the book's framework of surrender, stewardship, and servanthood, connecting it to the biblical vision of the "common good" — humanity made in God's image to steward creation toward flourishing and shalom.