The Why with Dwyane WadeOn Part 2 of Episode 5, Dwyane sits down with his close friend, and 10-time NBA All-Star, Carmelo Anthony for an intimate conversation. Melo opens up about why he never believed he would win a National Championship or play in the NBA. They discuss why Melo is still upset about the 2003 Draft, his dramatic time with the Knicks, and Melo's struggles to deal with the end of his incredible playing career.
Welcome to Part two of episode five of The Why with Dwyane Wade and my conbo with my brother Kamelo Anthony. In part two, we focus morel Hoops, his dramatic time with the Knicks and why he didn't want to come and watch my last game in Madison Square Garden. But first we started with his college experience at Syracuse in this legendary run to.
The national title.
Now you've committed to Syracuse already, and I had this iPad just to show you the photo that you probably know what you've seen.
But this is for everybody else, right, so bringing me back.
Now you go to Now you go to Syracuse. You've committed your junior year. You know where you're going. Yes, you play one year Syracuse. I always I go on record to say the first time I seen Mellow play in person was in New York in Madison Square Garden. We were in the same tournament. We didn't play each other, but we was in the Coaches Versus Cancer tournament to start the year off.
We played Memphis.
Y'all played Memphis and we played Villanova. Yes, and I'm sitting there and I'm watching this player that I've heard about in high school and they's supposed to be nice. But I'm like, you know, I'm kind of hating a little bit.
Let me the older. I'm older.
I'm saying, you know, on my second this, I'm a sophomore in basketball, but I'm a junior. I'm supposed to be a junior, but I said out a year. So I'm sitting here and I'm watching you had like thirty you would get like you we were getting. You would getting too. The money looks so easy. And I was sitting there like, damn, I ain't never seen like, I ain't never seen this up close and personal. You were doing it with a smile, you were doing it with a flair, you were just holding and.
I was like, this is the best. I think it's the best basketball player.
I watched my with my own eyes, because man, I ain't seeing MJ and all on my own I'm like, this is the best player I've ever watched. I walked away from them like, yo, this is a number one pick in the draft next year. Yeah, in my mind, I've never seen Lebron's right. And so you go through that year and obviously it ends right, wow, right.
This is how it is. This is young nineteen.
How do you I was nineteen, you were nineteen when you got to Syracuse.
The moment them, right? I remember that, brother, Like what was going through my head at that moment. But I'm gonna let you ask the question. When you got to Syracuse?
Was this moment something you you dreamed of, you thought that was possible?
Never? Okay?
And if you notice, my story is always never did you dream about the NBA. Never did you think about winning the national championship?
Never?
Never, because it wasn't those things, wasn't reachable to me.
Those was never my goals.
And also I had a problem with attachment at that point in time during my teenage years because of everything I was getting attached to. It was cousins, family, friends every time, and be more, you know what I mean, everywhere okilled, got to go, oh killed, next year, boom, Syracuse won.
You.
It's like I'm on. My whole career was like double dutching almost, you know what I'm saying. So I never got a chance to really reflect on anything that I've ever done.
So my point is I never thought about college.
It was just like, yo, I want to be I mean about leaving college or winning the national championship.
It was, damn, I want to go to college. I want to be there. You know, it's crazy, you.
Just thought about four years gonna be crazy? Like this was when you go to college, you stay four years. It wasn't a culture of leaving one and done.
Like no, I never even heard of that. That was like, oh he did that. He is specially he did want and done. It was like four people, that's a unicorn.
Like yeah, that's like coming straight out of NBA and producing. I'm like, nah, like man, I might do that. Like I'm like, man, I'm going to school. I'm planning for three four years. I'm about to be I'm about to be on campus going crazy because that's what I grew up underneath, people going to school for three four years and and building as they get. You know, the more years on campus, you know, the more comfortable you get, your stock rising people and you know what I mean, It's like, this is what college is supposed to be about it. I'm not thinking going one and done never even crossed my mind. But I did a press conference after we wanted. Everybody thought I was kidding when I said I thought you're supposed to stay in school for four years, not one. I was dead ass serious when I said that, because they was saying one more year, and I'm like, why I might come back.
He's like about one more It was.
It was a pep It was a pep rally. I'm like, I might come back. If we don't win this, I'm coming If we do win it, I might come back. Yeah, You're like, nah, you win this, your asses out like, nah, bro, I'm coming back. Like, I'm just it take you a year in college to get your feet wet.
You got especially, you got to go through the weather.
You gotta go through not seeing people, the ups and downs every floor of college, and then you gotta go through the winter, the fall, and winning to get to the spring, getting in the good times. By the time you get to the spring and the good times, it was time for me to go.
So I'm like, we just wanted I got experience college. I'm coming back.
Your college experience wasn't really an experience.
I was at the end and I was like, oh, this is what college is supposed to be about. Before it was like thirty inches of snow. You still gotta go to class, you right, So you got April May. I got March eight, turnout, turnout to turn up.
Yeah, so for the listeners out there, and we talked about it before I seen Mellow played that first game, but I never met Mellow until the Final four, Yes, until we both were in the final four. It was Syracuse, it was Texas, it was Kansas, and it was Marquette.
Wow, what did you think of? What was you thinking at that time? What did you think about?
Like obviously Syracuse and Kansas and Texas.
And then Marquette talk to me about what was your feeling?
The way I felt that mark about Marquette was the way that people felt about Q's. We wasn't supposed to be there, right. Our cards were so stacked against the deck.
Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma State, Auburn Manhattan was the first game, which was a tough game until we opened the game up at you know what I mean at the end, but that was a stacked deck against us. So every game that we won, by the time we got to the final four, it was like man, we hear, like, man, we don't care what you know what I mean, Like, Man, We're gonna go out here and just play our game. Just have fun. Yo, we here sixty thousand, like we're gonna play our game and who we win, we wear it. We don't. We already overachieved. We always achieved. When we beat Oklahoma, nobody thought that they were number one seed.
Beat them one was about twenty. We overachieved when we was down sixteen that Oklahoma State. I have came back overachieving Texas in the front. We overachieved Auburn Marquis Daniels, and we overchie.
Wasn't supposed to be in se Daniels was nice too, you.
Know what I'm saying, Like we wasn't. We wasn't supposed to. He was killing our zone in the middle of the zone. Like we wasn't supposed to beat those teams every game. We just gained confidence.
So by the time we get to the final four, it's like we looking at it.
Hey, I know, Mark kept probably ain't nobody saying that they're gonna win. It's like were saying the same thing about Marquette, and it's like, but we gotta meet Marquette.
Like it's like, man, Texas, I mean Kansas, and we don't want them, Like we we already five and four and oh against the Big twelve. We want to play in somebody that's different. We want Marquette. And we actually thought we was gonna play y'all bro Like we was in the rood chair, like get this, get this because you got just came off the quadruple double or whatever Kentucky.
You had just came off of that. So I'm like, yo, we and y'all on the other side. Yeah, so we roomed for y'all meet, right, so we're like, yo, they do a time.
We go, yeah, play these Texas Kansas. I just knew we were going to play Sacue stuff.
It was. It was.
It was so crazy, man. Now that we can reflect back on that, a lot of things, it was written like that was the play.
That was a play.
You understand what I'm saying, Like to be honest, like, yeah, it's me and Braun. That was the story, me and you and the championship and finally finding national championship. I'm just saying, when you talk about putting things in.
Perspectives like what what I don't I don't like doing what could have been and what if it is what it is? Right? But that could have been something totally different.
Because in my mind at that time, I'm like, all right, was going, it's the perfect matchup because we got shooters, they got his own, they got a lamp, they got we got So my mind, I'm like, this is the perfect matchup for US. I ain't saying overlook Kansas because they obviously they were. They beat they be. You want to overlook in Texas. But I wanted the Syracuse matchup because I felt we matched up better versus y'all then we did versit anyone else. So I was like, all right, guess that's because slashes. Y'all have slash slashing too, and we had we had no vacuum shooter.
We had. If you knew how to slash, you was ten. I was zoned up right and I'm slashing, yeah, And so I'm like, okay, that's why we was like that's all I got. But yeah, man, that was the Again.
Man, I get a chance to reflect on all of these years because I never had a chance to.
Right when you're playing, you just you're so you're so playing, you think about you.
I went from junior year to O kill in the in a couple of months, Oh kill the Serracuse in a couple of months. Serracuse to the NBA in a couple of months and it's like every season just started to compound.
And then it's like you don't get a chance to reflect.
It took me nine ten years of watch the national championship game because you don't have that time.
To just sit back.
And it's not so you start wondering why everybody feel like it's teen years later? Why anybody talking about this evera choose? It's been done? Yeah, when do you understand it? You start learning it, understanding, you start putting things into a perspective, and you start appreciating it a lot more.
So.
I'm sitting there, I'm watching you my bird's eye view, right you you down on the court and you have a whole other emotions and everything going on.
I'm up here. I'm furious inside. You got your own emotions.
I got my own emotions. And I'm sitting here and not not from you. I don't know you like that, But I'm sitting here and I'm like, oh, I'm coming back next year, Yes, because in my mind, no, we I want that. He was close. I'm too close. I'm coming I'm coming back. I got two more years, coach, I'm coming back. I'm very similar to I'm sure that coach Beheim told you you're just about it.
He did.
Man, it was when I got back, When we got back off the plane coming from New Orleans that year, it was mayhem.
It was mayhem. Like from the airport to the campus. It's about ten to fifteen miles from the airport to the campus, about ten fifteen. It was packed.
Took us down in three hours to get from the airport to the people.
So I had a parade for the parade, right the parade.
We ain't even had a parade.
Yeah, it was just you couldn't go. You just was there. So by the time we get to campus, the party, shit is burned down, cars is burned trees, you know what I mean. Like it's real national championship college atmosphere. And a couple of days go by and you're like, come to the office now that we calm down, and you know, I got the monkey off my back, That's what he said.
He got the monkey off his back and say what you're doing? Man, Like, what's talk to me?
I'm getting agents calling, you know, teams is calling NBA teens. Damn, I'm trying hit the party later on, Man, I ain't trying to talk about no agent, no NBA, Like I'm trying to go.
We got the party on the quad. I'm going to the party of the quad. I see you like nineteen years old.
I'm not thinking about no agent. I'm not thinking about man, you hand do like you talked to that. I ain't you talk to that. I'm going to I'm going to enjoy this moment. And for two weeks straight we just party on campus like it was you know what I mean, like Sarahchuse was.
They've been in that position before in eighty three eighty seven.
I think keeps Smart hit the same shot from the corner that I came blocked in the same a stadium. Wow, Indiana, Indiana Keeps Smart.
Yes, Mike Woodson in there. Yeah, yeah, he drained that shot in the corner. I remember Keith hit that joint.
Smart with that shot.
Bro Like, So when that shot is going on, I can't blox it is. It changes, it freezes because in our mind this is all we was playing with that shot in the corner by keep Smart. So by the time we get the QS back to Q's fast forward, we sit down and he's just like, what you doing. I'm like, man, I'm about to have the press conference saying I'm coming back. What what listen, I'm going out there, we do the press. If you say that you you coming back, You're not allowed back. I'm going to say it on national television. Not allowed back. So why are you kicking me out? Like I'm like, I'm really starting to love this Like I'm really starting to love this place.
And we're trying to find a home. You're trying to find a bro, I've been on the road for three years. Just boom bom boom boom. So QS is like finally I could rest my head. It's home. I won.
I'm good here for life, and you're telling me to go. He told me to get my shit and go. I don't want to see you back on this campus. Leave your stuff, bro, Like you could leave everything you you could buy more of that, Like, she ain't going nowhere, man, I'm still in the dump, still in my apartment, I'm still driving around camping.
I'm not going nowhere. This man is crazy. Then I did the press conference with him. In the press conference, I'm like shed a tear man like, man, I gotta leave, gotta go, gotta go.
So to not go through every step of the way you go. Right, you were the number three draft pick and one of the most iconic drafts in the world ever, two thousand and three, one of the most iconic drafts ever. You go to Denver. Yes, at the third pick. You're a Jordan athlete, which it's a big deal. Right, You got your own you got your own mellows, and you know, you got the whole swag. Tell us about Denver, tell us about that experience coming from where you come from, right, coming from New York, coming from b Moore, Syracuse, and how you get drafted.
You go to Denver. I'm sure it's foreign to you. It's foreign to me. But I've already been to foreign I've already been to So I love Denver.
Mellow, okay, right from the simple fact that I'm gonna keep reiterating. I was nineteen twenty, like nineteen so coming into an organization, a city, it's like here right here, help you know, we had just won sixteen seventeen games. Yeah, before I understood I understood that coming into that to Denver. I never thought about Denver though. I thought I was going to Detroit. So Denver was never in my mind.
So you thought you were gonna be the number two pick in the draft. That was so it was done. Which was told that and I was told that, yeah by him.
You know, I I wanna get with him one day, but I was told that by him that you're gonna be the pick. So my mind, my confidence shoot straight up. I'm on campus and I get this infamy.
This is you're giving.
I'm getting Detroit sweatsuits, I'm getting the practice basketballs I'm getting back, I'm getting NBA socks with like I'm Detroit Piston in college.
Then it don't happen, So I never what did you know? It wasn't gonna happen the draft day? So you didn't know until draft day.
Yeah, I kind of have inkless. But it was talking to they was talking. They started talking about Detroit.
And anytime somebody start talking about something, all sudden some ships happening them behind the scene. So as we're hearing it about Darko, oh, we shoot the Detroit. We gotta go find where Darko was working. Now we got to get to it. We got to find him. Man where they hide him at. We're going to work out with him.
We put were pulling up.
They was duck or they was hiding. No, he's not in that Gymi's well where is he at? First of all, Detroit Pistons is in Detroit. This kid is working out for Detroit Pistons. So somebody know where this kid is at. We gonna find him. We going every gym. We this is a true story.
We going to the gym. We want Darko. We want to work out. So we want to work out. We wanted Detroit. We want to work out. We want to find him. To do what to show like I'm the number two, I might be the number one pick, is what I'm saying, like, so I got to prove that.
And you now you're telling me I wanna be the number I ain't gonna be uber Point Now.
I know, Okay, Cleveland, they may take Broad but they'd be a fool if they don't take Bron. So I know that.
And I'm already got the basketball from Detroit, sweatsuit, Detroit bags. I'm going to Detroit. So yeah, I gotta find this guy wherever he's at. I'm going to I gotta get to him. I gotta get to him. I gotta play him. I gotta show what time it is with these scouts like that, so it gave us a run around. Come back to the draft, you know, draft week now the Detroit conversations picking up with dark Gold, and it's like, who the fuck is this guy?
Man?
Who is this guy? Who is this guy? This came out two weeks ago. We're sitting down. It's a picture that me and Braun is sitting like at an angle and I'm like, man, this way. He's like talking to me and he's like, Yo, you was there. It's like, Yo, you're next. So when I'm like yo, we's like, man, we're gonna be playing you in Detroit. I mean rival, Like it's like, man, ghet.
The call Yo de choice said. They taking dark O.
At the at the in the green room before the number one pick. Though, Yo, we gotta shift to Denver like Denver, Yo, I ain't work out for Denver.
Like I ain't. I had a terrible workout in Denver. I want to Denver, al must die. I did five spots and sales listen. Chee Chee band was like, come on, come on, come on, we can't not come on. We ain't gonn let nobody see this. Come on, I ain't gonna let nobody see that. I was dying. Yeah, the other two crazy. I was dying.
Please let work with me too. In the row and Move, I was dying, you know, but I never had to go. I had one workout and then to it. Did you work out for Detroit or you just worked out for Scout. I was supposed to work out for Detroit. I didn't work out for nobody, for nobody, none them. It was like the only one I worked. I was going to Detroit to workout. They canceled my workout and then come to find out they was working out Dark Old.
So I'm like, oh, hell nah. Some footage came out.
I've seen the footage when they was working on Dark and in the high school Jimmy shooting left fan that.
Yeah, I know the footage. I was going there, when's he opening the doors? I'm going to that ice coool man open.
The doors, man, Bang bang open the door. I'm here, like, let's go, let's get to it. They was giving me the run around, and at that point I just I started going back to growing up. And every time somebody tell me anyone today, then they don't.
Shit is taken away, So fuck it. I don't give a fuck. Denver.
It is this is what we're doing. This is how I'm carrying it out there in Denver. You want me to come out there, y'all just won seventeen games, eighteen games. I'm feeling out a high. I just won a national championship. But I don't I don't have an ego. I'm coming in like trying to work with Marcus Canby for Sean Leonards. You know what I'm saying, Like they my vets, Andre Miller, Earl boy, because those are my vets. So now I'm like, I ain't coming and trying to take a spot.
Bro.
They are giving me this shit like I can't give it back. It is not like I gotta I had to work for this shit. Like, no, they threw me the keys. They threw you the keys. They do braun the keys and said drive and figure it out as you go to the car. While while you drive it, go I don't know what kind of car, but go, just go and build it. And that's the spot that I was in in Denver. So I always played with an edge. I always played with like it wasn't an nervousness. It was just like a sense of like this shit could be taken away from me. So I was always afraid of it being taken away from me, which is why I always approached the game the way that I post the game.
The denver did Detroit ever say why they why they decided to go with dark Over you na, man ain't No, they never said that.
Nah. I mean I want to sit down, you know, I'm a man now, Like you know what I mean. I want to sit down. I want to sit with Joe Dumas, like sit there, like, yo, what's up, Like let's build, let's talk like I don't got no hard I want to know what top you know, because we talk about shit that could have been different, you know what I mean? And I got it. I had to like throw out of that as.
A man and be like, you know what, fuck that shit, Like I ain't it's written, you know what I mean? Like maybe if I'd have went this, sh would have been different, you feel what I'm saying? Like who knows? Like, but that's the older me. The younger me is like, Man, I was in Detroit, the fuck it. I was an hour away from be More. You imagine how we'd have had Detroit along with the culture and the vibe and the love that Detroit already have like we would have been motor City.
We would have been crazy out there.
So the video of Darko comes out that we see two weeks before the drift, right at my heart. I'll tell you what happens on my side, Mayo. I worked out for thirteen teams in fourteen days, fifteen days.
Or something like that.
But anyway, I get a late call to go to Denver, like the day before the draft. I'm like, so now, I'm like, why am I here? Like I'm not supposed to be top three pick?
Why am I? Yes? So I go to work out in Denver.
That altitude jumped on my They had me work out with like a junior college guy, right we're hoping. I don't remember his name. I want to disrespect him, but I feel like I did my thing. Anyway, I go into the office with Kiki and I'm like, Kiki, why am I here?
Y'all? Like they taking dark O at too, y'all taking Mellow? Why am I here?
He was like, well, just in case Detroit taking Mellow at two, that's why you here? So now I in all the flux, It's all. I don't know where I'm going in life now.
Either, Kiki tells me, Yo, it's either you or d Wade. He tells he's telling me this, Yo, if you if you there, it's you or d Wade. This is what he's telling me. He's telling me this. So I could have been in Detroit and you could have been in Denver. Definitely, Darko would have been in Miami.
They needed a big They.
Needed a big. This was what Miami needed at that point in time. They had to figure out what to do with you. They couldn't let you pass on the board.
They just grabbed me up. We're gonna make this work with him. Yeah, yeah, you feel what I'm saying. Yeah, So she could have been totally totally different.
But it's a blessing, you know what I'm saying. It's good so that we can the what ifs of it, you know what I mean. At this point in time.
Let's move on to New York. Yes, big move. I remember it was it. It was around the All Star weekend when it started coming out that you were you know that you were moving from Denver. Yeah right, it was around All Star weekend and you forget it was La. It was La All Star. Okay, I remember when this news started coming out that Mellow was it was, it was, it was over. The relationship was it was over. And you went to New York and all places. Now, mind you, on one end you're going to New York, which is incredible, but on the other end, New York is building. They had just got to Mari that summer, Raymond fell, Raymond felt, and they were bowling. They was as yeah, runner like first half of the season, first half of the season. That was our two. That was two summers. Yeah, right, we twenty ten, the big three in Miami. Amar goes to New York. He was the first move to go to New York that summer, big move from New York. They're bawling a Mari's hooping and then All Star weekend the trade happens and Mellow.
Goes to New York. Talk to me about it? What are you thinking? Did you want to go there? New York never was the place though, Like okay it was people people think that like I went in there and was like get me out of here to Denver, Like that never was the case, you understand.
The case was, Hey, I see what's happening here? Oh wait, okay, we're building oh nine, We take a step and go to Western Conference Finals, play the Lakers. We battle now we now we now we understand will we act compare to the champs, like compared to the Lakers and the San Antonio's and you know those teams. Now we we have a taste of that. Like me personally is like, yo, I could get it. Just we gotta get there. I'm going to get it. I am going to get it if we we two players away from what it? You know what I mean, It's like we win that series after two plays. So in my mind is like, yo, team, I just need y'all to Let's get there. Let's dominate Dallas. Let's not play around with them. Let's dominate New Orleans CP and them. Let's not play around with them. Let's show everybody we're serious. We want the Lakers. This is our time to like get trump the Lakers. Whatever happened in the series, it happened that next following year. My mind, Hey, this is what we had. We analyze the series, analyze that team. We plug and play. Put this place right, put this person here on. We might lose this person, but we gonna get somebody. Let's just plug and play. We ain't gotta rein invent nothing. We already there. We two pieces away, whatever those pieces were, we two pieces away. You trade Dante Jones, which was at that point, it was a pivotal piece for our team, the type of team we had, defender, tough. It was great with you, you know what I mean, great leader, locker room god, great god, great teammate, great, great person, great man.
You get rid of him. I'm telling you, yo, DANTEO take less. Just give him this, Just give him, give him another seven fifty. Like I know, I'm saying, like seven fifty is, but give it to him, bro, Like you're gonna letting him walk away to go over here, so you feel like for a million dollars more so you're going, you're trying to go this way. I'm going finals.
I'm going, this is my chance to get to the to the finals, because I know we beat the Lakers were sweeping Orlando that year, and.
That's just real talk. And this is two thousand and nine, this is nine. This is Lakers sweep Orlando that year almost we beat Orlando. Well, regardless of what anybody thinks, we would beat Orlando that year.
Okay, so this is the Lakers first championship day back to back.
Yes, okay, yes for Boston. So it's like we're catching you know, San Antonio Lakers, the best teams ever.
I gotta face that. So this is my time to be a part of that. That's all I'm thinking. And then y'all get rid of a major piece, right because you want to go you think you get younger in the same effect. No, so hey, I'm gonna play this season. But look, y'all gotta show me what y'all gonna do. I'm not trying to rebuild. I just got a taste of the Western Conference finals. I'm not trying to rebuild. And you signed a five year deal. Yeah, so now I'm like, I got like a year two years left on that deal. So now that y'all about to make me rebuild with two years left on my deal.
Here's here's the play. Look, I'm not rebuilding.
I'm hearing rumblings of y'all about the Amni Stey Chauncey right, gonna amn Stee Truancy.
Y'all gonna send Jr. And Nay Nay to Chicago for somebody. They wanted Joe him, bring Joe Kenigalship. They ain't out.
We are about to have me over here with you know what I'm saying, like who who? It took me six years to get to this point of making to the Western Conference finals, and now you want me to start all over again.
So here's what we're going to do.
I don't know what y'all thing is, but I'm not I'm not trying to rebuild. I'm not saying I want to get out of here. But y'all got to show me y'all cars and the cars was you're out of the cars?
You know, No, we want you to stay, but well, you know how go we want you to stay. It's like, no, y'all playing with me now.
I said this in June, went to a baseball game at Oiel Stadium and had a good time and we talked like men and we figured it out. And I understand where you understand where you're at. Let's make this happen. Here's the teams Chicago.
The deal was done with the Lakers, Me and Nay named for Lamarrow, older men buying them. That deal was done.
I never thought about New York, but then when they turned that deal down, when George had that deal and turned that deal down.
So did happen? Right?
He turned that down. Now it's like, oh, y'all want me the West, You're gonna send me to the East, get me to give me to New York. Dyal never was with New York. The deal was with New Jersey Nets. So when he was All Star Weekend, the deal was with the New Jersey Nets. George Carr had a deal with Utah behind the scenes for the young boy Derrek Favors, because he wanted Derry Favors. He was liking Derry Favors out of Georgia Tech and he thought that was a power forward, that he was a name name type power forward, so that was like going to.
Be He wanted him to be the next Nay Name. So you gotta go, You got to go. So you ended up in New York.
Ended up in New York. That deal wasn't supposed to happen though. We need another podcast another hour to tell that spacific story of New York. But that's another But yeah, the deal happened. I went to the airport from La draw him to the airport. Leon, come yok, go back to the house. Ain't no deal, Boom, I'm in the house in the bathroom in La. Family ain't might in pop up on the screen. Denver Nuggets making trade with New Jersey nets.
It works. So I'm like, what the what's going on? Yo?
Denver is saying they I don't want to send you to where you want to go, but I'm not forcing it to go to New York. Like, if they want, you can ship me, I can stay here in La. You can make this deal where I'm already here. I'm not going to New Jersey though, So we met about Jersey and that was on. All the Brooklyn stuff was about to happen two years after that, years later, and it's like he was in Brooklyn next year.
I would be there, right, but it was a couple of years down the line. I can't play at a prudential sentate. I just come on, like, I just I can't do that. Yeah, you know. So then the New York thing happened, and because.
It sounded good, I ain't even hold you the whole Brooklyn thing and everything they were trying to build, it was just too far.
It was incredible.
It was just too conversations was incredible, incredible, And if it was that next season, I would have been in net.
So how was it when you got there and tomorrow it was a Maris team. It was a Maris team.
And I made it my point to let everybody know this is a Maris team. I'm coming here too in Hen's what he already got going on because I know he need a wing man, he need a sidekick that and that's my man from high school. Like you know what I mean, I get a chance to play with tomorrow in New York. He already eight games, thirty points again, you know what I mean, It's like, oh, this is this is the time do it.
I can't go to Miami. I can't go to you know what I mean.
I'm going to a place where I can go and blossom and be that. So I never stepped on his toes. It was it start got you, Like whatever you want me to do, I got you.
But from the style didn't really fit.
So what happened was so dan TONI was there early that system was working because now I'm i am at small boy, I'm at a four, I'm at the stretch four right, So now Mari counld play the stretch five like you know what I'm saying, which was nobody was doing that at that point in time, nobody put him Mario at the stretch five.
Pick and roll.
So now when he had to stretch five and now I'm at the stretch four, it's a different type of matchup that's out there. You gotta pay attention to him, Mark, and you gotta pay attention over here. So pick your poison on one of them, because O Maria is going and I I didn't want to step on his sol because I didn't want to fuck his rhythm up of that those thirty point games. So I'm coming in saying, hey, look, we're playing through you, bro.
Like you go.
I'm gonna I'm gonna get to it like you know what I mean, But you you gotta go. So I wanted to establish that early and that fit as we started to go along with Dan, Tony kind of stepped down. We start getting a different type of team. Now, we start getting Tyson Chandler. We start molding it out. Ormar you playing the four, Melo you at the three, you know what I mean? Like we started molding this. Raymond Felton, Oh, we're gonna go get Jay off from China come back. Now we're gonna start putting the little team together with with Mike Woodson, more traditional, more traditional of now we're gonna play with two bigs. Omar, you gonna be the stretch for when you already been working at that position. I know you've been playing the five, but now you're gonna play the four, you know what I mean type. We got the defensive play of the year. That's what we were trying to establish with Amari and everybody else. And then injury started to happen, and then you're sitting out, and then you gotta come back and fit back into.
What already is trying to be. What he is trying to establish something totally different. Now gotta he gotta adapt to you being hurt, you know what I'm saying. But the understanding of the knowledge of that is like nobody wants to see that it's Mellow was taking over. It's who whose team is it? Mellow or Mars. It's like, I don't want this ship, you know what I mean, you can have this shit. I never came out and Devor said this was my team. I never just came out of New York.
So when you went to New York, did you feel like you were going to be in New York for a while, you felt like it was just a bus stop.
That was it. You felt like that was it, that was done. I was retiring in New York. Done? How was that until my free agency? What year was that? I was a free agent.
In twelve so I signed. I remember the lockout year was the year after the sea and that I got traded. That next summer we played the lock all year. Then we came back December. That was twelve thirteen. That was Jason kidd in the year.
And came back thirteen fourteen, and then that next a year, fourteen fifteen. Around that time, I was becoming a free agent, and that was when the Chicago did was about to happen. Yeah, I thought, you're gonna be in Chicago. It was done. Yeah, it made sense. It was done.
It was done, And at that point in time, I was looking for something totally there. I was looking for because I had been through so much shit up until that point, like dealing with New York. I was looking for like some type of appreciation right from in like a validation almost from the work that I put in, And Chicago was validating that I went out. You know, it was just valid It was always been love in Chicago with me and the connection with Chicago.
So they was just validating that part of it. So when I got there, it was love. It was And so when I go back to New York, it's like nothing. It was like, are you ready to sign? Like what? Like I just got what? I just flewent in Chicago and this is what's going. No, I just flew the Dallas Cuban just did this. I come back to New York and we meeting that American cut you know what I mean. It's so, how do you feel? You know? You ready to sign? No, you gotta you gotta do the same thing. I'm a free agent recruit me. You gotta do the same thing. Because now it's now you play the game. You know that I want to be in New York, like everybody knows that. But you playing a game with me? Now you don't do nothing? Like nothing cool? I see what type of time this is. I see what me and you stand at. I'm gonna sign back because I want to sign back and my family is here.
I'm going to sign back and this is mine. I can't let you dictate what happens with me, right, you know what I'm saying. So you're the man in New York. That's right, and I'm willing to give that up to go to Chicago.
So you're willing to give up, but you go so that move. Like think about New York now, court on the court is the one thing, but off the court is a whole other beast. And you're the You're the guy like you and Mari are the guy. Fashion is blowing up in New York. You and Lave like New York right, like your family's there, Like New.
York is the Yeah, that's home.
And you're willing to give New York up because because you're really to go to it.
Because of the environment that I was around in that in the organization, I was willing to walk away from them because it wasn't feeling like the right energy.
In place to be. I knew New York was a place to be for me for everything, for every other reason, every other reason business At that moment, I was looking for.
We got you like I I didn't need it, but I would have embraced that instead of you fighting instead of them fighting it.
I already had to deal with the media, I already to deal with the fans, already deal with all of that I'm gonna play ball. You get what I'm saying. I'm gonna perform. So whether you like it or not, whether you like me or not, I'm going to perform. You didn't want that, you didn't validate. Why you ain't validate that? You allowed me. You said go and if you come back, then I got you. I got you because now you you underneath me now because you came back. You could have left, you could have went, but you came back. So now now you under you, under this, you under mine. Right?
Do you feel, with all that being said, shifting gears a little bit that New York was probably the best place to raise Cayenne.
Yes, I just come from Colorado.
And you know, Kanye was born in Colorado in Denver and Skyridge Hospital.
And I said, God, we just rode past the hospital that man. I wasn't born, I said, when I ain't lit, I said, what he was born at Skyridge Medical Center, like to that point.
But he's still like he knows it, he appreciates, like, oh, you know Denver, like then in full circle and now him being in Conlorado Springs, it is like, damn, that makes sense, Like, oh this is full circle but New York. I was very strategic with moving to New York. I could have went to Miami, right, I could have figured that out. I was very strategic in the sense that I knew me, I knew what I needed to operate. My son is an identical image when it comes to understanding what he needs to operate.
He don't like it. He ain't operating with it. He'll leave it alone. Ain't gonna argue with you. Leave it alone.
Coming to New York gave him so much diversity right where, Yeah, we can.
We came to New York. We lived in Harlem. We lived on Upper Harlem. Like we lived on one hundred and second and fifth Avenue across from Central Park right there, about one hundred and tenth in Hall, you know what I mean. Like we was in the next block over as the projects. We sent you parking the projects Like this is diversity at the highest level. So for him to be able to as a young kid, walk around those streets in that environment and be a part of that community. Now he's playing. He was going in Harlem, you know Queens as a little kid. Bronx Brooklyn.
We moving, you know what I mean, Like I'm moving the way that I'm moving around the city. And now you get a chance to see that and move the move with me. Now you moving that way now, so the grand the foundation is already laid for you. Now you just gotta know how to move, when to move, and how to move.
He knows how to navigate these situations that he's going to be put into a lot, a lot better than a lot of kids because of how you have to navigate New York.
Absolutely, And I think New York is the belly of the beast, like it's the belly of the beast.
So anything that people go through is New York. The stresses of New York, the tension of New York, the loudness, the noise, the smell. You give what I'm saying. The amount of people like you gotta have to be able to navigate through all of that. And I tell him, I said, look, you have a chance to be the face of all of this. Think about that. In high school. You represent New York. You represent Brooklyn, New York, and you live in Brooklyn, New York. You represent New York. You've been there since four years old. You give you what I'm saying. You have an opportunity to be the face of what New York haves to offer. That's a lot of pressure on top of me being your dad. You get what I'm saying.
This ain't like you we in South Carolina where you can just chill and go to you know, be number one player.
You ain't the number one player, so you still grinding.
So I would prefer you to grind and get that grit and grind in New York and Baltimore and during these years because I'm gonna give you everything else, Me and your mom gonna give you the education, We're gonna give you the knowledge.
We're gonna give you the jewels that you really need.
But now you inside of this belly of the beast, and it's gonna go as you go. So I'm able to tell him these type of stories. He be you know, sometimes he like man, man, that's.
Right for some Sometimes he's just like.
Do you see what you had in your mind? Is this is what you're gonna be able to have and be able to do? Do you see him being able? Do you see him embracing it? Or do you see him running from it? And I know the answer, but I'm asking, Yeah, no, of course.
Of course.
So the beauty and what my son has and like what men have, like our bond, is that he embraces it, you know what I mean? But I think that comes from me and a mom just always like you ain't running from you. You're not gonna run from it. You have to embrace this life. You have to embrace who your mom man. You have to embrace who your dad is. You have to embrace it. If you don't embrace it, it's gonna be harder on you because you're gonna feel like you have to fulfill some shoes and you.
Can't do that. I don't want you to do that. You get what I'm saying. I could have named you Carmelo Kanye Anthony Junior. I ain't with that.
I flipped it around for you as much as I wanted a Junior. I gave you your own identity, but you always well connected. So that ain't you cool? You get your own.
Kanye and you Kanye Carmelo Anthony.
Like that's different, so you get the opportunity stand on your own a little bit.
So for me, I just.
Wanted him to understand, you gotta embrace who you are. You can't run from me. Bro like, yeah, you know d Way, Yeah, you know Jay, Yeah, you know j Yeah, you know Braun. Yeah, there was a family. Those are people that you call if you really need some shit, if you and some shit, if your pops is in some shit, you call.
You Get what I'm saying, like, these are the people. So yes, embrace who you are.
When people out and they say Kanye, they want to embrace it. Yeah, embrace because the more you embrace it, the easier it will be for you to navigate through those doors and through that life. Because now you can just do what you do, poop, go play ball, live your life. You know what I'm saying. But you also know that you got this support system on this side.
So as we.
It's so much we can talk about, and we're going to save the business mellow for our next interview. What we're gonna do is we're gonna wrap. We're gonna end talking about the end of your career and how that went down. Right Now, we talked about the beginning and how it all plays apart, right, so let's go to the end.
Now. Now, you're one of the greatest PLA.
You're a top ten scoring in this league, which is this league been around for a minute, There's been some buckets in this league of hitters.
It's a lot of hitters.
Your top team in scoring, your top seventy five, you have all the the accolades that you worked your ass off for. You can't control always if you can get a championship that ain't based on just stop worrying about that. You can't control that. But you got one in college. You got you one. But your career path of how it ended wasn't what you would think a superstar of your caliber how it would end. Tell me about how you dealt with and this is obviously a lesson for all of us. How did you deal with being up here for so long and then feeling like nobody wanted you.
Yeah, it took me back to a kid. It took me back to shit always being taken away. I done worked this hard to get to this point, and it's just that easy. You could just take it away from it without no explanation. What is the explanation to this day, don't know the explanation. You get what I'm saying so I can laugh about it now. But at that point in time, that shit was difficult to deal with because you coming from All Star twenty four, twenty three points a game like two, I can't make a nine man roster?
Bro? Like, what are we talking about here? Like? You what me? Then? Now?
Now I'm gonna be selfish, now me, this is me you talking about? I know what I do. I know everybody know what I do.
You telling me I'm gonna I can't make a nine man roster in this NBA fuck out here? Like you're a bugging You know what I mean? You are bugging? So how did it get there? Nobody? What you understand? Bro?
I don't understand this to this day, I really don't understand it.
There's no explanation. Bro.
Listen, I'm gonna just try to give you this in a quick summary. When I left New York, right, I didn't leave New York. I got pushed out of New York. Let's be technical. I got Phil push me out of New York. You know what I mean? I struggled to leave New York.
Okac, and I've never I'll support Sam Presty to this day and anything that he ever wanted to do. He came the twenty fifth hour, Mello, we're taking you. We believe in you.
You are the piece that we need in Okay, see, this is the conversation.
I never thought we would be in this situation.
To be able to have somebody like you leony, Okay, see we out a word.
They got pee. Oh they got oh we outs I am I'm they still got Steven Adams, you know what I mean. I'm like, oh, this is perfect. Okay, see, smaller market, you ain't gotta worry too much.
Like I could just play ball, go hoop and go hoop. I got Russ, I got PG. Oh, I'm cool man.
That happened and I felt it starting to happen in okay, see with that team, and it was what did you feel? It was slowly like like almost pulling back on mellow all right. It goes from not being a part of this play and it's like, oh, you go from this eighth you know, twenties nine to thirty minutes, you start going to twenty eight six.
It's like, oh, we just they had the game going, and it's like, okay, I get that part of it. They got it roll and let them roll. But then you start you ain't incorporating to the offense. You ain't you ain't part of the system. And then It's like, I'm asking what's going on?
So is it? Is it? You figured out? You could figure it out. It's not talent, it's not talent based. So is it not talent?
Is it a part of the game changing and they want you to change your game?
No?
At this point, at this point it was I was willing to change my game. I knew PG, Russ. So I'm going there as to figure this out with all three of us. So it ain't like I'm coming there like Yo, I'm mellow and no, like Yo, I'm in the film sessions and the meetings and yo, PG, what you need me to do? Like you got it? I'm playing off of you, Russ. I'm playing off of you. I'm gonna do some other shit I got, y'all. You let me know what. With that being said, I'm still a part of this champion.
You know what I mean? Throw it down here, work like, let me get to it, let me work, let me you know what I mean Here, y'all can go like, but don't throw me a bone, like, make me a part of what's going on, because guess what, Pete, you gonna get more points because I'm out here, rush, You're gonna get way more of because I'm out here because at the end of the day, I'm the fourth option on this team on Oka. See, Steve Adams was another option before me on that team, and I understood that. I didn't fight it, none of that. But shit wasn't working, okay. See. I went to him and what do I need to do? I know I ain't doing shit.
What do I need to do because I know I gotta do that for the sake of Pee and the sake of Rush. So I'm gonna sacrifice, Mike, whatever you need me to sacrifice, I'm gonna do it. Then we get to the playoffs and it's like we're playing Utah. Bro We first of all, we all had a terrible series. We all had a terrible.
Nobody feels comfortable, Nobody knows what to do. Nobody Russ got the ball. There, Pg's on top, you know what I mean. It's like, what are we doing here? Bro? Oh? By the way, Metal bells out. Well, I ain't shoot the bosses first quarter? You want me to bail you, you know, I'll take the bomb. No, I'll take the bomb, go out, I'll take it. I'll take it. I don't want my man to deal with that. I don't want Russe to deal with that.
I don't want PG to deal with don't I'm cool with taking that, cool with it. So it started there that summer I was supposed to sign back with. I still had a year left from OKAC. I was going back to OKC. I start hearing the whispers, Hey, you want to restructure your contract. I'm old twenty eight million dollars. How you want me to restructure twenty eight What do you want me to do?
Cham? What? You know? What? You want me better way? If you got a better way, please come tell me how to restructure for twenty eight million dollars. Bro And it weren't even about the money, but I felt like y'all was playing with me at this time.
So I say, y'all want me to restructure this? How y'all want me to restructure? I want to be here. I'm willing to do what I gotta do to be here. I want to build me PG and Russ let's do it. I'm willing to do that. I'll take less. You know what, what kind of deal y'all wanted?
You want to cut this down into three years to twenty eight over three le's four years, let's do it. Give me seven a year, Let's do it. I'm gonna work with it the way you willing go down to seven year after you had twenty because.
They were trying to figure out a way how to make the contracts work for everybody.
So at this point I was old twenty eight at one year my last year. Also, Pe and them had deals. He and them had deals.
I'm talking to them like, yo, pee, y'all want to be here, Russ, We're gonna make this work.
You know what I'm gonna I'm gonna break my deal down. I come off the bench. What where does this come from? You went from who? For bruh?
It was like it was like, uh, they were trying to put Jeremy Grant like make him the next you know kind of thing. And okay, see, I guess they looked at me like Mello gonna be here long?
No know, Jeremy Grandt was in Okay, I don't remember being there. He ain't gonna be here long. This is gonna be our future, all right. But I'm here now. You just want to dismiss me right away while I'm still here. I'm still all right. Cool.
So now At that point, she started, you know, I start understanding what's going on. I'm in Africa, bro chilling family. I get a call Houston, Mellow, you are missing peace?
How are you at this time? Well, this is two thousand and seventeen, like this me and you're early thirty. I'm thirty three. I don't know. Just for everybody, you know, I'm still I was just All Star in New York two years ago, you know what I'm saying, Like, like, come on, I went from New York to going to OKC AFTERGE twenty four.
You get what I'm saying. So it's like it ain't wasn't the talent. It wasn't it ain't nothing of basketball. So yo boom, Houston calls, Hey, you need to make this happen. You're the piece. You see what happened to us last year? We was missing this. What you can bring all of that? What's CPI see P's in Houston and Houston like that Toy Houston, Pg's in Houston. I mean not CP, James, PJ. Tucker, Capella, Gyl Green, you know what I mean. It's like they just lost. They was just up three, you know what I mean, Like they just lost that Trevor a reason, they get Trevor out of there, which is why they were saying you are the missing peace.
Right. I already knew going.
Into Houston that they was looking at me as a Trevor of reason.
And it's no knock to Trevor reason. But they wanted that type of mentality, somebody who was was a three and D guy, somebody who didn't mind sitting in the corner, didn't mind cutting into mind, you know, playing off of these will where they come and get you. This is my question. I'm glad you asked this question. I'm asking them that. So how do you see me in this offense? Because I know y'all are layups and threes. I got it.
I'm a rhythm guy, right, but I'm I'm I see CP playing, so I'm like, Okay, see P is kind of a similar mid range God, gotta get to it. Gotta get a rhythm god, you know what I mean. I'm okay, he's there. So oh they would accept that for me.
Man, I get there, I get to Houston, Man, they tell me the way no mid range shots. M I ain't talking to me what you brought me here for? What you're talking he talked about else. I'm looking at CP like behind me on the on the chair, see like leave it alone. It's only forty. They broke it down numbers. We only allowed seventeen mid range shots the game. Uh, here's who could take them. Broke him down. Cep can take the majority of the mid range shots. James would take. Man, Old you get maybe one, maybe one. I had twenty five thousand points from mid range. I only could take one mid rays game a game. But you want me to shoot twelve threes? No, if I can't. If I ain't shooting this memory, I I ain't gonna be able to make twelve the twelve three, not at all. And they held at it. They held that against it, and Yo, d wad.
I had to swallow on my pride and ego so much in Houston, like you know what I'm gonna do it.
I'm just gonna do it because everybody says I can't do it.
Nobody, nobody believes that he's gonna come off the bench. He's like, it's like, can't do that. Bro I never said I ain't coming off the benches. I told you, y'all do what I gotta do. I'm just here, like y'all do what y'all gotta do.
Go there, Well, we want to keep PJ in the throwing lineup. Cool, go ahead. I already accepted the fact that I'm coming off the bench. Cool the way I went on the spree of like averaging like twenty four, like for like seven out of ten games.
Bro come back to saying it too. On the San Antonio trip in the room, I get the call, Hey, I'm coming in town. We need to meet. We like three and five or something like that, need to meet. I'm thinking he wanted to meet with me to figure out what's going on with the team and the players.
And I don't want to say the name. I don't come to my room and says.
Yeah, I think, uh, your services are no more, no longer needed.
Hmm, straight to it. I say no for play no four play. I say, ah, man, get out of here. Man, what you talking about.
We're gonna figure this like that, like I'm now I gotta take it.
On the jokers side, You're like, oh, man, yeah, we're gonna figure it. But nah, we just don't see you part of the plans going into playoffs.
Layoffs. We are nine games into the season. You're talking about playoffs. So now I'm getting serious. He's just like very stoic and like, well, this is what it's gonna be. And this is And I say, damn, bro, like you don't. I say, you don't have a soul, man, you don't have a heart.
You won't. I said, I'm I can take it.
But the fact that you just came in here and just said we don't have no place for you on this team. And I asked you why? And he tells me, well, it just not a fit. I thought it was gonna fit. Just now it's not gonna fit. What's not gonna fit? So now.
William's attorney called Cep so ceep. Bro, you're my family, you my brother. If you you knew anything about this? Not you knew anything about this. This is real talk. It's one o'clock in the morning. Yo, kinme of my room right now, cham Like he like, what I ain't it now? I don't fuck where you at? I need to holler at you. Yo, you knew anything about this? Coming of the room where I ain't, They'll see it.
Don't lie to me, bro, like come on, like I'm hurt at this point, Like nigga, you my best friend, like.
Like nah, like I'm gonna find out what's going on. I said, See, I just need you to tell me. I asked him three times, but cpa tell you that as three times? Did you know anything about this? He like, nah, I promise you he did.
So I'm like, oh, right, my nigga, you know what I mean, like all right boom, like I'm gonna figure this out.
Like I'm gonna figure it out. See it don't need a trip call somebody else. You know about this? No, no, no, no, no, what's going on? But I was just with you at dinner, so of course I ain't. You don't got nothing to do with this. I'm just with you. You know, I'm about to head a meeting, and to this day, I can't figure out what happened. I don't know what happened. I get rumblings of you know what, you know, how the game go.
We was in that seat before you know what I'm saying, it's a matter of what you do with that seat. So now that year happens, I'm off away from the game and I say I'm done with it.
So you were you were done with the game after that? Yeah, because I ain't had no answers, no answers none. Twenty eight, the night before twenty five, you have no While you're sitting at home, You're like, why am I saying that? You told me you want you I should come to the game, but sit behind the bench. What the fuck is what? Oh? You really trying to embarrass me now?
Like you know what I mean, You're really trying to make me flip, to make me look bad. Like, no, I'm not gonna give you that. You know what, You asked me to leave. I'm cool, I ain't going to the game. Don't ask me, you know what I mean? Like, you asked me to leave the basically of.
The team, and then you asked me to come to the games. I'm not doing that, no disrespect. We ain't gonna make no scene out of this, though. Yeah, I'm gonna bite the bullet. I'm gonna walk away. Yeah, but it ain't that easy. I'm a deal with on my time though.
Okay, I'm not gonna deal with in the public, right, I'm a deal with it behind Cloe, those doors which fucked me up for four months.
Right, I was abouna say how is your wellness? How is your top. Fuck all that? Did you deal with it? Reading lessons, getting to my lessons, back into my lessons, working out like I was working out like three four times a day. Yeah, because I didn't want to think like man, niggas think I'm a loser, Like just think he whack. And that's what was going on. He lost Boom, we did he deserved. I heard all of that shit, and I'm like, you know what, click boom, unplugged, and I unplugged for about seven months, started working, started getting myself together and started talking, started going through the therapy, started going through talking, started going to the life coach, started really putting it into perspective of what really was and what it is and what it's not, Understanding the business of the game, understanding you know. It was just everything was on the table and I was like, you know what, I'm walking away from it. I'm done with the game.
I'm done because you know what, if I love this game more than this game loved me, I don't deserve to be here.
It's over.
It's no relationship at that point. Nothing can work in life with that type of relationship. I love you, money, you love me, So I'm cool.
I'm gonna walk away from the game, and I had to make that decision.
I didn't watch games. I didn't listen to it. I didn't no sports. There was no sports. It was music, it was books, it was writing. That was twenty eighteen, twenty eighteen. I started writing. That's when I started writing my book. You know, talking about my book. I'm like, yo, fuck it, this is the time to like quarantine hit. So I was in a double.
Doozy and the first time you showed up at the game was my last year.
It was in the garden. It was my last game, and that was so hard to come to know hard. I said, Man, I'm not going on what tell my man, I'm going to dinner after all?
Right in the garden, I know, jump bro, I'm like, no way, no please, why just have to be to go next year my last game. Regard like you showed up, I'm like, you know what. And then it was a point where I was like feeling bad for myself. I'm like, am I feeling bad? I feel guilty about I don't even know what. I feel guilty of something wrong. Then I do something wrong.
I started asking that and then like the media stuff, like man, it was like oh, they was waiting for this moment like I ain't do shit wrong? What did I do? Yeah?
Give what I'm saying. So I was fighting myself with that. So I had to get my mind right, my mental right talking to people. Being around my kids really was like my son is like, oh Dad, Like, man.
You you the ship man? Like what you're doing? Like, Man, I ain't sign fuck that game. I'm here with you. And it started the cause not friction, but it was like I ain't going to that game, to his game.
I ain't going nobody. I don't want to be around that. And he started like you know what I mean? He started like that, don't even come like, don't even worry about it. I already know.
Like, but if I'm there with that energy, that's given that energy to you. Because I can't be like into it the way I want to be. I'm going so I'm coming there looking empty. I'm just hoodie on. I'm empty. I'm just trying to figure the shit out.
And those kids, Man, been around the AAU and those kids, those are the kids that really like gave me back my swag. They like, man, what man, Man, you can't you ain't supposed to be out, you know you're supposed to be. But they realized that, and they're going to realize this later, that they were a part of a journey that they.
Don't even know about. With me being in there during that time, that being therapeutic for me around those kids. Yeah, it took you back.
To the the reason why you started playing.
It took you back to the beginning. Can you back to the innocence of it all? You start listening to you start listening differently, you start moving differently, you start approaching things differently, because now y'all built me up.
So now I have to give back to y'all, which is why I do what I do today.
All Right, we'll stop there.
This is about a three hour interview and we ain't even halfway through. Man, I appreciate you coming through. Man, appreciate you having this comment. We are not done. We will finish this at a later date.
Man, I can talk all day. You understand, you know you talk to me.
I talked about but I appreciate you being like vulnerable and open. And these are the things and the tools that the kids that's playing this game they need to understand. The guys that is in the game right now today that that feels that our organizations said, oh it's family, is that you don't understand the realness of this business. The other side of this we don't see because the money and the and the and the celebrity and all the things that you know, all the shiny things, but this is the other side to the dark side of sports, dark side of sports, and you don't think it's gonna happen to you. And we all got a story which was, how was that guy right? This can't happen to me.
This ain't happening in the mellow champ, This ain't happening to the garden. No stay mellow Conversations with Peace
