Ruby.

Ruby.

Aadeel Akhtar was a PhD student at the University of Illinois when he was invited to test a prosthetic hand prototype in Quito, Ecuador. In partnership with the US Embassy and the nonprofit, the Range of motion project, Aadeel was there to meet a man named Juan who had lost his hand in an explosion.

Aadeel Akhtar was a PhD student at the University of Illinois when he was invited to test a prosthetic hand prototype in Quito, Ecuador. In partnership with the US Embassy and the nonprofit, the Range of motion project, Aadeel was there to meet a man named Juan who had lost his hand in an explosion.

We don't have anything working, but we figure we're going to be there for two weeks. We'll figure it out when we get there.

We don't have anything working, but we figure we're going to be there for two weeks. We'll figure it out when we get there.

But as soon as they arrive in Ecuador, they get some good news.

But as soon as they arrive in Ecuador, they get some good news.

see everything.

see everything.

Aadeel stayed up all night trying to get the hand to work, but with little progress, they went to the embassy anyway.

Aadeel stayed up all night trying to get the hand to work, but with little progress, they went to the embassy anyway.

We show them this demo and they are stunned because they've never seen a robot in their lives before, so they don't know what it's supposed to look like and how it's supposed to work.

We show them this demo and they are stunned because they've never seen a robot in their lives before, so they don't know what it's supposed to look like and how it's supposed to work.

So the Embassy schedules a demo for the press a little bit later. Despite a week of all nighters to prep, the morning of the demos still didn't go as planned.

So the Embassy schedules a demo for the press a little bit later. Despite a week of all nighters to prep, the morning of the demos still didn't go as planned.

We weren't able to get the machine learning algorithm to work to control they had.

We weren't able to get the machine learning algorithm to work to control they had.

Then the patient arrived and.

Then the patient arrived and.

Every single channel was dead. We weren't able to read any of his muscle signals.

Every single channel was dead. We weren't able to read any of his muscle signals.

And then we go.

And then we go.

Through this two minute training procedure with Huan and nothing happens.

Through this two minute training procedure with Huan and nothing happens.

Nothing. But this time it wasn't just a demo in a lad this time it was in front of the international press corps.

Nothing. But this time it wasn't just a demo in a lad this time it was in front of the international press corps.

And I'm just like, oh my goodness, what else could go wrong at this point?

And I'm just like, oh my goodness, what else could go wrong at this point?

Turns out quite a lot. Welcome to The Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business. On the Unshakeables, we're sharing the daring moments of small business owners facing their crisis points and telling the stories of how they got through it. On today's episode, we're talking to Dr. Aadeel Akhtar, who's doing some absolutely fascinating stuff in science and medicine. He's found the perfect balance of all his interests and he is just super excited to go to work each and every day. He's young and well on his path to changing the world. Thankfully, I've got another young and ambitious entrepreneur back in today to help me tell this story. Kathleen, It's so good to have you back. Welcome back to the Unshaekables, Hey.

Turns out quite a lot. Welcome to The Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business. On the Unshakeables, we're sharing the daring moments of small business owners facing their crisis points and telling the stories of how they got through it. On today's episode, we're talking to Dr. Aadeel Akhtar, who's doing some absolutely fascinating stuff in science and medicine. He's found the perfect balance of all his interests and he is just super excited to go to work each and every day. He's young and well on his path to changing the world. Thankfully, I've got another young and ambitious entrepreneur back in today to help me tell this story. Kathleen, It's so good to have you back. Welcome back to the Unshaekables, Hey.

Ben, glad to be back. And with this company, it is just so you It feels like something out of science fiction.

Ben, glad to be back. And with this company, it is just so you It feels like something out of science fiction.

Yeah. I mean, I like science fiction. I think this is rapidly becoming science fact. We've seen a lot of technology come through and I get to go around with clients and see the new technologies they're building. It's rare that I find my jaw on the floor that fast when I see something new. I feel like I'm looking into the future right now. But in your immediate future, today's episode with Psyonic from San Diego, California. Some kids want to be astronauts or ballerinas or more worrisome today, maybe influencers when they grow up, but Aadeel had his eye on one thing and one thing only, and it wasn't running a company.

Yeah. I mean, I like science fiction. I think this is rapidly becoming science fact. We've seen a lot of technology come through and I get to go around with clients and see the new technologies they're building. It's rare that I find my jaw on the floor that fast when I see something new. I feel like I'm looking into the future right now. But in your immediate future, today's episode with Psyonic from San Diego, California. Some kids want to be astronauts or ballerinas or more worrisome today, maybe influencers when they grow up, but Aadeel had his eye on one thing and one thing only, and it wasn't running a company.

My parents immigrated from Pakistan back in the seventies to the United States. Every seven years or so, we would visit Pakistan, where all of our extended family and relatives were.

My parents immigrated from Pakistan back in the seventies to the United States. Every seven years or so, we would visit Pakistan, where all of our extended family and relatives were.

They took one of those family trips in nineteen ninety four, when Aadeel was only seven years old.

They took one of those family trips in nineteen ninety four, when Aadeel was only seven years old.

We were visiting a marketplace that was out there and there was a young girl who was missing her right leg and she was using a tree branch, using it as a crutch, and this was the first time that I had ever met someone missing a limb before in my life, and it stuck with me that we have the same ethnic heritage, but we have such vastly different qualities of life. So I wanted to become a medical doctor to work with patients with limb differences and get them prosthetics.

We were visiting a marketplace that was out there and there was a young girl who was missing her right leg and she was using a tree branch, using it as a crutch, and this was the first time that I had ever met someone missing a limb before in my life, and it stuck with me that we have the same ethnic heritage, but we have such vastly different qualities of life. So I wanted to become a medical doctor to work with patients with limb differences and get them prosthetics.

He was laser focused on that goal right up through college until his sophomore year when he took a computer science class for fun.

He was laser focused on that goal right up through college until his sophomore year when he took a computer science class for fun.

I loved everything about engineering and building my own things. So I was going to finish medical school work at an academic hospital and run my own lab there where I would do like research on prosthetic designs.

I loved everything about engineering and building my own things. So I was going to finish medical school work at an academic hospital and run my own lab there where I would do like research on prosthetic designs.

There just happened to be a major rehabilitation hospital down the road from the University of Illinois, which is where a Deal was getting his PhD.

There just happened to be a major rehabilitation hospital down the road from the University of Illinois, which is where a Deal was getting his PhD.

And I called the Shirley Ryan Ability Lab, it's the number one rehabilitation hospital in the US for the last 38 years. They made some huge breakthroughs in these newly powered bionic limbs. They had invented this surgery there called targeted reinnervation where they would basically take the nerves that you'd still have in whatever it was left of your arm, and then they'd reroute them to muscles you still had, and you could use this to basically control a bionic limb.

And I called the Shirley Ryan Ability Lab, it's the number one rehabilitation hospital in the US for the last 38 years. They made some huge breakthroughs in these newly powered bionic limbs. They had invented this surgery there called targeted reinnervation where they would basically take the nerves that you'd still have in whatever it was left of your arm, and then they'd reroute them to muscles you still had, and you could use this to basically control a bionic limb.

Wow.

Wow.

And when I had first seen that, I was like, this is incredible. This is the perfect combination of engineering and medicine.

And when I had first seen that, I was like, this is incredible. This is the perfect combination of engineering and medicine.

Yeah, that's serious science fiction.

Yeah, that's serious science fiction.

Yeah right, And I was like, this is exactly what I want to do with prosthetics and working with people with limb differences.

Yeah right, And I was like, this is exactly what I want to do with prosthetics and working with people with limb differences.

While at the Shirley Ryan Ability Lab, a deal started working on a concept for a prosthetic hand.

While at the Shirley Ryan Ability Lab, a deal started working on a concept for a prosthetic hand.

I wanted to continue to figure out like, okay, can we make these really advanced bionic limbs that can take advantage of some of those things that they were developing at the Shirley Ryan Ability Lab and other research labs around the world, but do it at a price point that is much more affordable. That technology, it's super expensive. That costs millions to almost a billion dollars to develop. 80% of the people with limb differences are in developing nations and less than 3% have access, so something that's that expensive wouldn't really work there.

I wanted to continue to figure out like, okay, can we make these really advanced bionic limbs that can take advantage of some of those things that they were developing at the Shirley Ryan Ability Lab and other research labs around the world, but do it at a price point that is much more affordable. That technology, it's super expensive. That costs millions to almost a billion dollars to develop. 80% of the people with limb differences are in developing nations and less than 3% have access, so something that's that expensive wouldn't really work there.

Around the same time, Aadeel was introduced to the Range of Motion project. It's a nonprofit dedicated to getting prosthetics to folks who really, really need them, largely across the global south. The founder, Dave, was a U of I alum and was on campus talking about prosthetics. The two of them hit it off right away.

Around the same time, Aadeel was introduced to the Range of Motion project. It's a nonprofit dedicated to getting prosthetics to folks who really, really need them, largely across the global south. The founder, Dave, was a U of I alum and was on campus talking about prosthetics. The two of them hit it off right away.

I was like, "I need to go talk to him because this is exactly what I've wanted to do ever since I met that seven-year-old girl." We go out to dinner with a bunch of his colleagues and teammates, and then we take him to the lab the next day and I show him that Mark I of the 3D-printed hand that we made.

I was like, "I need to go talk to him because this is exactly what I've wanted to do ever since I met that seven-year-old girl." We go out to dinner with a bunch of his colleagues and teammates, and then we take him to the lab the next day and I show him that Mark I of the 3D-printed hand that we made.

Oh yeah, you'll hear a Deal refer to both the mark and the ability hand. Both are terms he uses for the prosthetic hand he's developed.

Oh yeah, you'll hear a Deal refer to both the mark and the ability hand. Both are terms he uses for the prosthetic hand he's developed.

We actually call it Mark one, Mark two, Mark three, based off of like Ironman nomenclature. If you like, come to our office. We have all the different versions and glass cases on the wall so you can actually see the very first hand that we built.

We actually call it Mark one, Mark two, Mark three, based off of like Ironman nomenclature. If you like, come to our office. We have all the different versions and glass cases on the wall so you can actually see the very first hand that we built.

That hand was the one he showed Dave that day in the lab, and it was gigantic.

That hand was the one he showed Dave that day in the lab, and it was gigantic.

The hand was like three times the size of an average adult human hand with wires going everywhere, plugged into breadboards, power supplies, the wall. And I was like, "Could you do anything with this?" And he was like, "Yeah, maybe."

The hand was like three times the size of an average adult human hand with wires going everywhere, plugged into breadboards, power supplies, the wall. And I was like, "Could you do anything with this?" And he was like, "Yeah, maybe."

Then Dave left and a deal he didn't hear back.

Then Dave left and a deal he didn't hear back.

Two weeks later, I get this email from him and saying, like, Dude, I felt this vibe between us when we met, and we've got to figure out a way to work together. And that's when Dave's and my bromance began.

Two weeks later, I get this email from him and saying, like, Dude, I felt this vibe between us when we met, and we've got to figure out a way to work together. And that's when Dave's and my bromance began.

Two weeks after that, Dave was back, this time with an offer. He'd gotten funding from the US embassy in Ecuador to bring a deal down to test out mark on a patient.

Two weeks after that, Dave was back, this time with an offer. He'd gotten funding from the US embassy in Ecuador to bring a deal down to test out mark on a patient.

And this was just this incredible opportunity. But the hand that we had built, it was like giant, right.

And this was just this incredible opportunity. But the hand that we had built, it was like giant, right.

And for the patient they'd be meeting to fit the prosthesis on their very first patient. I should note their prototype just wouldn't work. That early prototype included the forearm, which one their patient still had on his body.

And for the patient they'd be meeting to fit the prosthesis on their very first patient. I should note their prototype just wouldn't work. That early prototype included the forearm, which one their patient still had on his body.

So we had to go to a new design that had all the motors and electronics in the hand itself. We found another open source design online and we put all of our own like electronics in it machine learning algorithms.

So we had to go to a new design that had all the motors and electronics in the hand itself. We found another open source design online and we put all of our own like electronics in it machine learning algorithms.

Mark two looks super cool. I mean, it's a robot hand. In terms of functionality. At that point, it was still so new it might as well have been a paperweight.

Mark two looks super cool. I mean, it's a robot hand. In terms of functionality. At that point, it was still so new it might as well have been a paperweight.

We don't have anything working, but we figured, we're going to be there for two weeks. We'll figure it out when we get there. So we fly down to Ecuador. Dave picks us up from the airport and the first thing he tells us is that tomorrow we've got a meeting with the US embassy in Quito and they want to see everything working.

We don't have anything working, but we figured, we're going to be there for two weeks. We'll figure it out when we get there. So we fly down to Ecuador. Dave picks us up from the airport and the first thing he tells us is that tomorrow we've got a meeting with the US embassy in Quito and they want to see everything working.

The next morning, Mark II was mostly still a paperweight. The hand was supposed to be able to open and close and pinch and grasp with the same relative amount of effort as a human arm. They could only get the hand to close if Aadeel flexed really, really hard. But this was their only opportunity to work directly with a patient so they showed up to the embassy for the meeting and crossed their fingers.

The next morning, Mark II was mostly still a paperweight. The hand was supposed to be able to open and close and pinch and grasp with the same relative amount of effort as a human arm. They could only get the hand to close if Aadeel flexed really, really hard. But this was their only opportunity to work directly with a patient so they showed up to the embassy for the meeting and crossed their fingers.

So we showed them this demo, and to our surprise, they are stunned because they've never seen a robot in their lives before, so they don't know what it's supposed to look like and how it's supposed to work.

So we showed them this demo, and to our surprise, they are stunned because they've never seen a robot in their lives before, so they don't know what it's supposed to look like and how it's supposed to work.

During this meeting, the embassy also caught wind of the fact that Aadeel was from the University of Illinois. Turns out, Ecuador's then president was also an alumnus of the same place.

During this meeting, the embassy also caught wind of the fact that Aadeel was from the University of Illinois. Turns out, Ecuador's then president was also an alumnus of the same place.

And they said, "We're going to bump you up to all the international news stations." Any chance that they got to promote the university, they take it. So if the bar wasn't said high now, now it was set super high.

And they said, "We're going to bump you up to all the international news stations." Any chance that they got to promote the university, they take it. So if the bar wasn't said high now, now it was set super high.

Full court press coverage from groundbreaking medical research from the president's alma mater. It was a great day for the fighting Illini. Next, they met their patient. Juan Sukiyo, he had lost his left hand 35 years prior due to a landmine explosion. We hooked him up to all the muscle sensors and we weren't able to get the machine learning algorithm to work to control the hand. And that was it. Juan left for a trip. The next time they'd put the hand on Juan would be on live television and it had to go right. And the night before the demonstration, they still hadn't solved the problem. The hand wouldn't work. Dave was coming to take Aadeel to the embassy at 06:00 A.M. and at 06:00 A.M., Aadeel was still working. He finally found the issue at 6:08.

Full court press coverage from groundbreaking medical research from the president's alma mater. It was a great day for the fighting Illini. Next, they met their patient. Juan Sukiyo, he had lost his left hand 35 years prior due to a landmine explosion. We hooked him up to all the muscle sensors and we weren't able to get the machine learning algorithm to work to control the hand. And that was it. Juan left for a trip. The next time they'd put the hand on Juan would be on live television and it had to go right. And the night before the demonstration, they still hadn't solved the problem. The hand wouldn't work. Dave was coming to take Aadeel to the embassy at 06:00 A.M. and at 06:00 A.M., Aadeel was still working. He finally found the issue at 6:08.

At 6:08 I noticed this one line of code that might be a little bit off, and it turned out there was one line of code where two variables were switched on the opposite side of an equal sign. And as soon as I switched those two variables back, everything started working. When I made a pinch, the hand made a pinch. When I made a fist, the hand made a fist.

At 6:08 I noticed this one line of code that might be a little bit off, and it turned out there was one line of code where two variables were switched on the opposite side of an equal sign. And as soon as I switched those two variables back, everything started working. When I made a pinch, the hand made a pinch. When I made a fist, the hand made a fist.

Huge sigh of relief. Thank goodness, I think we were all getting worried there for a second. They bring the hand, the breadboard, the batteries, and head off toward the embassy. Now all they need to do is get the hand on Juan and run the test before the cameras roll at 09:00 A.M. and they'll be in business. Except when 09:00 rolls around, Juan is nowhere to be found.

Huge sigh of relief. Thank goodness, I think we were all getting worried there for a second. They bring the hand, the breadboard, the batteries, and head off toward the embassy. Now all they need to do is get the hand on Juan and run the test before the cameras roll at 09:00 A.M. and they'll be in business. Except when 09:00 rolls around, Juan is nowhere to be found.

One doesn't get there until ten am, and so in the media is already super annoyed at this point. Now we've out again one chance to get this right in front of these international news stations.

One doesn't get there until ten am, and so in the media is already super annoyed at this point. Now we've out again one chance to get this right in front of these international news stations.

There's no more prep time, just showtime.

There's no more prep time, just showtime.

So Juan gets there, we hook them up to all the electrodes and the first thing we do is, we try to read his muscle signals and every single channel was dead. We were powering this breadboard off of two 9 volt batteries and one of the 9 volt batteries was burning hot to the touch and it puffed up to about double in size. Had we not noticed it at that point, we might've been on the news for a different reason, but fortunately, I had a fresh 9 volt in my pocket.

So Juan gets there, we hook them up to all the electrodes and the first thing we do is, we try to read his muscle signals and every single channel was dead. We were powering this breadboard off of two 9 volt batteries and one of the 9 volt batteries was burning hot to the touch and it puffed up to about double in size. Had we not noticed it at that point, we might've been on the news for a different reason, but fortunately, I had a fresh 9 volt in my pocket.

And voila muscle signals check. That's a lesson for us all always be prepared and never ever ignore a puffy battery.

And voila muscle signals check. That's a lesson for us all always be prepared and never ever ignore a puffy battery.

But it's one thing for us to read his muscle signals, it's another thing for the machine learning algorithm, the AI algorithm to work.

But it's one thing for us to read his muscle signals, it's another thing for the machine learning algorithm, the AI algorithm to work.

If you'll remember for a moment that AI is more than asking Chat Gpt to make your grocery list, you'll know that Aadeel's prosthetic hand is being trained on the muscle signals the user is sending to the machine, which the algorithm is then able to replicate whenever the patient flexes those muscles.

If you'll remember for a moment that AI is more than asking Chat Gpt to make your grocery list, you'll know that Aadeel's prosthetic hand is being trained on the muscle signals the user is sending to the machine, which the algorithm is then able to replicate whenever the patient flexes those muscles.

So, we go through this two minute training procedure with Juan. He holds a pinch for 15 seconds, fist for 15 seconds, tripod grip, hand open, relax, the hand opens back up. I ask him to close it, and nothing happens.

So, we go through this two minute training procedure with Juan. He holds a pinch for 15 seconds, fist for 15 seconds, tripod grip, hand open, relax, the hand opens back up. I ask him to close it, and nothing happens.

When the code is seemingly fixed and your patient is there and the battery's been replaced, there's only one thing left that can fix the unfixable, maybe divine intervention.

When the code is seemingly fixed and your patient is there and the battery's been replaced, there's only one thing left that can fix the unfixable, maybe divine intervention.

I happen to be Muslim and Juan happens to be the leader of all the Muslims in Ecuador. And to put things in perspective, Ecuador is a 99.9999999% Catholic country. And so for me to A, meet another Muslim, but B, the leader of all the Muslims, is just completely, completely happenstance. There's no way that that would happen just by pure luck, right?

I happen to be Muslim and Juan happens to be the leader of all the Muslims in Ecuador. And to put things in perspective, Ecuador is a 99.9999999% Catholic country. And so for me to A, meet another Muslim, but B, the leader of all the Muslims, is just completely, completely happenstance. There's no way that that would happen just by pure luck, right?

Bismillah, for those who don't know, is something Muslims say before undertaking anything. It's an invocation of the name of God, a small prayer of sorts.

Bismillah, for those who don't know, is something Muslims say before undertaking anything. It's an invocation of the name of God, a small prayer of sorts.

So I was like, "Bismillah." "Okay, Bismillah, right?" And so, I hit the reset button on the system, and this time I asked him to close it and it actually closes. I take a step back, a huge sigh of relief.

So I was like, "Bismillah." "Okay, Bismillah, right?" And so, I hit the reset button on the system, and this time I asked him to close it and it actually closes. I take a step back, a huge sigh of relief.

If you watch the news coverage of that day, the relief on Aadeel's face is palpable. But the most remarkable part of it is during the interview with the patient, Juan, who said he felt as though a part of him had come back.

If you watch the news coverage of that day, the relief on Aadeel's face is palpable. But the most remarkable part of it is during the interview with the patient, Juan, who said he felt as though a part of him had come back.

And at that moment that I realized that if I stay in academia, if I finish medical school and go to an academic hospital and run my own lab, that this just ends up as a journal paper. If we want everyone to feel the same way that Juan did, we had to commercialize this technology and that's when Psyonic was born.

And at that moment that I realized that if I stay in academia, if I finish medical school and go to an academic hospital and run my own lab, that this just ends up as a journal paper. If we want everyone to feel the same way that Juan did, we had to commercialize this technology and that's when Psyonic was born.

Kathleen, it's so good to have you back. We get to meet a lot of clients who are working on some incredible technology, but he just stunned me when I saw how advanced this thing is and the fact that it's getting ready for patients is something else.

Kathleen, it's so good to have you back. We get to meet a lot of clients who are working on some incredible technology, but he just stunned me when I saw how advanced this thing is and the fact that it's getting ready for patients is something else.

Fascinating. The listeners at home couldn't see this, but your jaw pretty much hit the ground.

Fascinating. The listeners at home couldn't see this, but your jaw pretty much hit the ground.

My eyes are currently popping out of my head.

My eyes are currently popping out of my head.

That was wild.

That was wild.

We've had the pleasure on this show and some of the episodes, I think, that you've joined for in hearing from mission-driven companies. This is clearly a mission-driven company, although it's fully for-profit, it is mission-driven. What makes them different, what makes mission-driven companies different?

We've had the pleasure on this show and some of the episodes, I think, that you've joined for in hearing from mission-driven companies. This is clearly a mission-driven company, although it's fully for-profit, it is mission-driven. What makes them different, what makes mission-driven companies different?

So just to start and set the table, a mission is the purpose for your business. It's your reason for existence. And to get at a big ownable mission, you need a big, hairy, audacious problem that you're looking to solve for in the world. So some injustice, some wrongdoing, something you want to make right. And I think the best missions are attacking problems that have really sharp edges, and so there's a sense of urgency that you want to get after something, you want to take it on. It's a foe that is bigger and badder than something that you might normally want to solve. What we saw today is just like the mission is to make humanity better and he's taking on something that is just so massive, as the best companies do. What's your perspective on that?

So just to start and set the table, a mission is the purpose for your business. It's your reason for existence. And to get at a big ownable mission, you need a big, hairy, audacious problem that you're looking to solve for in the world. So some injustice, some wrongdoing, something you want to make right. And I think the best missions are attacking problems that have really sharp edges, and so there's a sense of urgency that you want to get after something, you want to take it on. It's a foe that is bigger and badder than something that you might normally want to solve. What we saw today is just like the mission is to make humanity better and he's taking on something that is just so massive, as the best companies do. What's your perspective on that?

I mean, to speak to the core theme of the show of getting through those uh-oh moments and getting through those tough times. That mission, it's a true north for the entrepreneur, for the company, for the employees, for the buy-in. That anchoring to that mission is so important. And we've seen that with so many of our guests on the show about when things were tough, if they were incredibly committed to the mission behind it, that was the thing they could cling to when they were staring over the precipice. Aadeel had a hand, a mission, and a goal. Now he was ready to go back to Chicago and found the company. Now keep in mind at this point he's also still in medical school.

I mean, to speak to the core theme of the show of getting through those uh-oh moments and getting through those tough times. That mission, it's a true north for the entrepreneur, for the company, for the employees, for the buy-in. That anchoring to that mission is so important. And we've seen that with so many of our guests on the show about when things were tough, if they were incredibly committed to the mission behind it, that was the thing they could cling to when they were staring over the precipice. Aadeel had a hand, a mission, and a goal. Now he was ready to go back to Chicago and found the company. Now keep in mind at this point he's also still in medical school.

We entered our school's business plan competition back in 2015, so this was the COSED new Venture competition at the University of Illinois, and we won that and the following year we won the Illinois Innovation Prize, and that gave us about 25K in seed funding that we had to work with. We used that to basically fund a trip to Shenzhen, China, in the summer of 2017.

We entered our school's business plan competition back in 2015, so this was the COSED new Venture competition at the University of Illinois, and we won that and the following year we won the Illinois Innovation Prize, and that gave us about 25K in seed funding that we had to work with. We used that to basically fund a trip to Shenzhen, China, in the summer of 2017.

That trip introduced them to motor manufacturers. The next few mark iterations followed quickly, and as the marks came out, the money ran low.

That trip introduced them to motor manufacturers. The next few mark iterations followed quickly, and as the marks came out, the money ran low.

That summer, we started an Indiegogo campaign, so it was a crowdfunding campaign, $250,000 to really get this company off the ground. We raised $7,000. It was a horrible utter failure of a fundraising campaign.

That summer, we started an Indiegogo campaign, so it was a crowdfunding campaign, $250,000 to really get this company off the ground. We raised $7,000. It was a horrible utter failure of a fundraising campaign.

No money, no scale, no clear path forward. That summer, Psyonic also applied for a National Science Foundation grant and never heard back. The fall of 2017 was Psyonic's lowest moment.

No money, no scale, no clear path forward. That summer, Psyonic also applied for a National Science Foundation grant and never heard back. The fall of 2017 was Psyonic's lowest moment.

We had two hundred dollars left in our bank account. Now we had to figure out how we're going to survive as a company. Going through a startup, it's a total roller coaster ride where you're going to have like super low lows and super high highs. Two hundred dollars left in your bank account is definitely one of the low lows. But the following week, we had in our bank account two hundred thousand, two hundred dollars because we just got this grant from the National Science Foundation. This was more money than we had ever seen before.

We had two hundred dollars left in our bank account. Now we had to figure out how we're going to survive as a company. Going through a startup, it's a total roller coaster ride where you're going to have like super low lows and super high highs. Two hundred dollars left in your bank account is definitely one of the low lows. But the following week, we had in our bank account two hundred thousand, two hundred dollars because we just got this grant from the National Science Foundation. This was more money than we had ever seen before.

Receiving this grant felt like confirmation that Aadeel was on the right path.

Receiving this grant felt like confirmation that Aadeel was on the right path.

We wanted to be able to make the most impact possible. So the original plan was never to start a company, but it just turned out that by starting a company, it was the best thing that we could do for making this as accessible and ubiquitous as possible.

We wanted to be able to make the most impact possible. So the original plan was never to start a company, but it just turned out that by starting a company, it was the best thing that we could do for making this as accessible and ubiquitous as possible.

And that was that. Aadeel dropped out of med school. He moved his family and the company to San Diego. And if you're thinking, "Why San Diego?", I asked the same question. Basically, San Diego has now become somewhat of a health tech hub. There's a lot of community support, a lot of money, and there's Balboa Navy Hospital. Many prosthetics patients are veterans. Once in San Diego, they use the rest of the cash grant for customer discovery and intensive R&D.

And that was that. Aadeel dropped out of med school. He moved his family and the company to San Diego. And if you're thinking, "Why San Diego?", I asked the same question. Basically, San Diego has now become somewhat of a health tech hub. There's a lot of community support, a lot of money, and there's Balboa Navy Hospital. Many prosthetics patients are veterans. Once in San Diego, they use the rest of the cash grant for customer discovery and intensive R&D.

Customer discovery, the whole point is to just lay out what you think the market wants and then you actually find out what the market wants and most of the time, you are wildly wrong. In going through that process, we thought that we were going to save the world with these low-cost three-D printed prosthetic hands. When we started talking with real clinicians and real patients, the number one thing they complained about wasn't that their $50,000 bionic hand was $50,000. It was more so that their $50,000 bionic hand was breaking within a month of using it. And we were like, "If we give someone a 3-D printed hand, they're going to just break this thing immediately." So how could we still leverage the low cost of 3-D printing but make this hand more robust than anything else that's out there?

Customer discovery, the whole point is to just lay out what you think the market wants and then you actually find out what the market wants and most of the time, you are wildly wrong. In going through that process, we thought that we were going to save the world with these low-cost three-D printed prosthetic hands. When we started talking with real clinicians and real patients, the number one thing they complained about wasn't that their $50,000 bionic hand was $50,000. It was more so that their $50,000 bionic hand was breaking within a month of using it. And we were like, "If we give someone a 3-D printed hand, they're going to just break this thing immediately." So how could we still leverage the low cost of 3-D printing but make this hand more robust than anything else that's out there?

I'm going to slow you down for a second because i have the benefit of video. I'm looking at the hand. Can you describe for everybody fundamentally.

I'm going to slow you down for a second because i have the benefit of video. I'm looking at the hand. Can you describe for everybody fundamentally.

What is it?

What is it?

What does it look like? What are the features?

What does it look like? What are the features?

Yeah, absolutely. So it is a five-fingered hand. There's actually six motors inside of it, and so, all five fingers flex and extend. So I can close the hand like that and I can do a pinch, for example. If I'm at a rock concert, I can do gestures like rocking on.

Yeah, absolutely. So it is a five-fingered hand. There's actually six motors inside of it, and so, all five fingers flex and extend. So I can close the hand like that and I can do a pinch, for example. If I'm at a rock concert, I can do gestures like rocking on.

To you who can't see, I'm literally watching this happen in real time. It's quite trippy. But anyway.

To you who can't see, I'm literally watching this happen in real time. It's quite trippy. But anyway.

I can make all the fingers move in like kind of like a finger wave as well, so you can see all the different motors moving. You can hear it probably through the microphone as well. So things that make this hand in particular unique. This is the fastest bionic can. They close in two hundred milliseconds, And to put that in context, we blink our eyes in about three hundred milliseconds. So the fingers are actually closing in like faster than the blink of an eye, which is just crazy. If you hit it, it flexes out of the way and it can come right back to its original position.

I can make all the fingers move in like kind of like a finger wave as well, so you can see all the different motors moving. You can hear it probably through the microphone as well. So things that make this hand in particular unique. This is the fastest bionic can. They close in two hundred milliseconds, And to put that in context, we blink our eyes in about three hundred milliseconds. So the fingers are actually closing in like faster than the blink of an eye, which is just crazy. If you hit it, it flexes out of the way and it can come right back to its original position.

What's it made of? Silicon?

What's it made of? Silicon?

Exactly. We took a soft robotics approach where we would make the fingers out of silicone instead of this plastic, this hard material. And because it's made out of silicone, when I squeeze the fingers together, they flex out of the way. And I can take this, I can smash it, and it survives the impact. I climbed the roof of my house, dropped it 30 feet in the air, it survived. I've stepped on it, I put it in a dryer for 10 minutes. So this thing can take quite a beating.

Exactly. We took a soft robotics approach where we would make the fingers out of silicone instead of this plastic, this hard material. And because it's made out of silicone, when I squeeze the fingers together, they flex out of the way. And I can take this, I can smash it, and it survives the impact. I climbed the roof of my house, dropped it 30 feet in the air, it survived. I've stepped on it, I put it in a dryer for 10 minutes. So this thing can take quite a beating.

Wow.

Wow.

Going through that process of customer discovery, which we still do to this day, is probably one of the most critical things. It tells you what your user needs are, what the market is looking at. And then on the flip side, having come from a PhD that gives us the lens of knowing exactly what research is out there, what's promising on that front. Two, and so we're very forward thinking on that front, so we can mix both aspects of like what does the market need now as well as whereas it going towards in the next like three to five years.

Going through that process of customer discovery, which we still do to this day, is probably one of the most critical things. It tells you what your user needs are, what the market is looking at. And then on the flip side, having come from a PhD that gives us the lens of knowing exactly what research is out there, what's promising on that front. Two, and so we're very forward thinking on that front, so we can mix both aspects of like what does the market need now as well as whereas it going towards in the next like three to five years.

Psyonic is on their way toward the future. To date, they've received two point four million dollars in grants from the National Science Foundation and have raised another one point four million in a pre-seed round. The first fully formed mark, now called the Ability Hand, hit the market in September of twenty twenty one.

Psyonic is on their way toward the future. To date, they've received two point four million dollars in grants from the National Science Foundation and have raised another one point four million in a pre-seed round. The first fully formed mark, now called the Ability Hand, hit the market in September of twenty twenty one.

We have it on over 200 patients. It's covered by Medicare in the US, and we have 50 robotics companies using it, including NASA. Meta is using it to do household object manipulation on robot arms, and they're working with Mercedes to put car engines together. So it's been just this incredible journey, starting from this idea that I had from seven years old all the way to the world's largest companies.

We have it on over 200 patients. It's covered by Medicare in the US, and we have 50 robotics companies using it, including NASA. Meta is using it to do household object manipulation on robot arms, and they're working with Mercedes to put car engines together. So it's been just this incredible journey, starting from this idea that I had from seven years old all the way to the world's largest companies.

This could easily be just another cool tech toy that stays locked up at these companies, but Aadeel is a man of the people. His original goal was to make prosthetics accessible and he remains fully committed to that mission.

This could easily be just another cool tech toy that stays locked up at these companies, but Aadeel is a man of the people. His original goal was to make prosthetics accessible and he remains fully committed to that mission.

Medicare will usually pay something around like $31,000 for a hand like this, and so we sell the hand to the clinicians for about 15K to 20K, and they're able to then get reimbursed from Medicare and make a margin on that. But to the end user, depending on which insurance you have, you just pay whatever your copay is. So that could be from zero to, at max, maybe a couple of thousand bucks to get a bionic hand.

Medicare will usually pay something around like $31,000 for a hand like this, and so we sell the hand to the clinicians for about 15K to 20K, and they're able to then get reimbursed from Medicare and make a margin on that. But to the end user, depending on which insurance you have, you just pay whatever your copay is. So that could be from zero to, at max, maybe a couple of thousand bucks to get a bionic hand.

Wow, it's a win for everyone in the value chain.

Wow, it's a win for everyone in the value chain.

Fascinating. This is really so interesting and the next generation of prosthetics is even cooler.

Fascinating. This is really so interesting and the next generation of prosthetics is even cooler.

What we're doing is, we have a titanium implant that would go inside of the two bones in your arm and it comes out of your body, and then you would actually attach the hand directly to your bones through this titanium implant, and we call this osseointegration. But on top of that, instead of having the muscle sensors on the outside, we're working with groups to do fine wire electrodes that would go directly into your nerves. And when you do that, instead of doing these pre-programmed grips, the idea would be that you would actually be able to do individual finger control, and then when you touch the touch sensors, it can stimulate your nerves and make it actually feel like your hand that's no longer there.

What we're doing is, we have a titanium implant that would go inside of the two bones in your arm and it comes out of your body, and then you would actually attach the hand directly to your bones through this titanium implant, and we call this osseointegration. But on top of that, instead of having the muscle sensors on the outside, we're working with groups to do fine wire electrodes that would go directly into your nerves. And when you do that, instead of doing these pre-programmed grips, the idea would be that you would actually be able to do individual finger control, and then when you touch the touch sensors, it can stimulate your nerves and make it actually feel like your hand that's no longer there.

That trained on AI exactly. One of the things I love about Psyonic is that it's both a software and a hardware company. They make the physical hand and they also make the software that runs the hand. You could imagine them selling it separately to maximize their profits, but that's not a deal's focus.

That trained on AI exactly. One of the things I love about Psyonic is that it's both a software and a hardware company. They make the physical hand and they also make the software that runs the hand. You could imagine them selling it separately to maximize their profits, but that's not a deal's focus.

You can't separate the product from the service. They go hand in hand, for lack of a better pun. We want to make sure that our users feel heard, that they feel comfortable with our devices and they're getting the most out of it, so the human element is always going to be there. This company will never be devoid of that human element in particular. So we get a lot of that from the prosthetic side and by bringing humanity to the robotics side too, we're seeing this synergy between the robotics and the humans that would be a lot more difficult to do if we were just a robotics company or just a prosthetics company, in particular.

You can't separate the product from the service. They go hand in hand, for lack of a better pun. We want to make sure that our users feel heard, that they feel comfortable with our devices and they're getting the most out of it, so the human element is always going to be there. This company will never be devoid of that human element in particular. So we get a lot of that from the prosthetic side and by bringing humanity to the robotics side too, we're seeing this synergy between the robotics and the humans that would be a lot more difficult to do if we were just a robotics company or just a prosthetics company, in particular.

what a story. There was one moment I'll remember it forever where Aadeel was able to allow me three thousand miles away from to control the hand remotely. It did not make it into the episode, but you can go see it on social media. We're also going to include a link to the ability to hand in the show notes, so you can see it. Like this is something you have to see to believe. It waved at me from San Diego.

what a story. There was one moment I'll remember it forever where Aadeel was able to allow me three thousand miles away from to control the hand remotely. It did not make it into the episode, but you can go see it on social media. We're also going to include a link to the ability to hand in the show notes, so you can see it. Like this is something you have to see to believe. It waved at me from San Diego.

It was seriously remarkable.

It was seriously remarkable.

For now, Kathleen, I want to take a step back and pick one theme out from today's conversation. The theme running through all of this, I think having listened to Aadeel today is just the pace of change, whether it's technological change, social change, business model change, frankly government policy change. I want to give small business owners some practical advice on how to think through that, prioritize make decisions about which changes matter the most, which changes can wait. That's a generic question, but it's one that I hear from clients all the time. So I'll give you an example of some of the advice I've given in the past is I say to people all the time, what drives your growth and what drives your margin, and think about the changes that are most relevant to the things that I either directly drive your growth and or your margin, and work backwards from there. The further it is away from that, the more time you have. Now It's easy to say and hard to figure out, but at least it gives you a framework. But I'm curious what you think.

For now, Kathleen, I want to take a step back and pick one theme out from today's conversation. The theme running through all of this, I think having listened to Aadeel today is just the pace of change, whether it's technological change, social change, business model change, frankly government policy change. I want to give small business owners some practical advice on how to think through that, prioritize make decisions about which changes matter the most, which changes can wait. That's a generic question, but it's one that I hear from clients all the time. So I'll give you an example of some of the advice I've given in the past is I say to people all the time, what drives your growth and what drives your margin, and think about the changes that are most relevant to the things that I either directly drive your growth and or your margin, and work backwards from there. The further it is away from that, the more time you have. Now It's easy to say and hard to figure out, but at least it gives you a framework. But I'm curious what you think.

I'd say, from an internal perspective for small business owners to almost redefine the SBO as a skills-based organization, the entire team that you have now needs to be wholly focused on skill building and upskilling all the time. So this idea of having generalists and traditionalists that we used to be able to afford to have in our small businesses, we really can't anymore, just given the rate of change, we need such a level of specialization. So I think that's the real shift I'm seeing, and for those that aren't adapting at that rate of change, they're just getting left behind.

I'd say, from an internal perspective for small business owners to almost redefine the SBO as a skills-based organization, the entire team that you have now needs to be wholly focused on skill building and upskilling all the time. So this idea of having generalists and traditionalists that we used to be able to afford to have in our small businesses, we really can't anymore, just given the rate of change, we need such a level of specialization. So I think that's the real shift I'm seeing, and for those that aren't adapting at that rate of change, they're just getting left behind.

Yeah, so I really think a lot about what you just said, Kathleen, in terms of hiring the right people for small businesses because sometimes my clients tell me, "I can't afford the level of person that I really need." And I say, "I don't think you can afford not to have the level of person that you really need." And I know that's very difficult when margins are tight, but in a world where this change comes this quickly, if you don't have people who can adapt to that, you're going to be left behind very quickly.

Yeah, so I really think a lot about what you just said, Kathleen, in terms of hiring the right people for small businesses because sometimes my clients tell me, "I can't afford the level of person that I really need." And I say, "I don't think you can afford not to have the level of person that you really need." And I know that's very difficult when margins are tight, but in a world where this change comes this quickly, if you don't have people who can adapt to that, you're going to be left behind very quickly.

I couldn't agree more. The Jack-of-all-trades or the Jacqueline-of-all-trades, it doesn't fly anymore. You just have to keep moving. You have to stay in a state of perpetual motion to your point of trying new things, getting contingency plans in place, running and gunning as best you can because the one thing that is certain is that we are operating in uncertain times, and that is only going to likely accelerate and continue.

I couldn't agree more. The Jack-of-all-trades or the Jacqueline-of-all-trades, it doesn't fly anymore. You just have to keep moving. You have to stay in a state of perpetual motion to your point of trying new things, getting contingency plans in place, running and gunning as best you can because the one thing that is certain is that we are operating in uncertain times, and that is only going to likely accelerate and continue.

To take a bit of an optimistic view, I think this is a moment that small businesses can seize, and I'll tell you why. Because the technology is changing so fast that for larger organizations, they'll get there and they can get there by brute force, and no doubt they will, but they can't move as fast and they can't always move as fast as the technology, but smaller businesses can.

To take a bit of an optimistic view, I think this is a moment that small businesses can seize, and I'll tell you why. Because the technology is changing so fast that for larger organizations, they'll get there and they can get there by brute force, and no doubt they will, but they can't move as fast and they can't always move as fast as the technology, but smaller businesses can.

It is so true.

It is so true.

The rate of change is just unreal right now. You've got small companies where they can be more nimble and agile, move quicker. I'm seeing them use AI a lot, either as an input or as kind of a QC to optimize on the backend. It's mainstream and it ain't going anywhere.

The rate of change is just unreal right now. You've got small companies where they can be more nimble and agile, move quicker. I'm seeing them use AI a lot, either as an input or as kind of a QC to optimize on the backend. It's mainstream and it ain't going anywhere.

No, and AI in particular, everybody thinks, oh, it's the big companies who are using AI. It's not true at all, in fact. I mean, we survey small businesses all the time. Almost half of them say they are looking to add AI tools into their operations this year, including in customer-facing applications. There's so many tools that are available off the shelf. These are not just big companies, smaller companies are moving into this fast. What I will say for most companies is, if you're thinking about AI for your business, one of the most important things you can do and then I'm going to use a really dry word, is think about data architecture. Any AI is only as good as the data that it can consume, and one of the advantages small firms have is they don't have a bunch of legacy data around that they have to manipulate and reformat and retool and put in different environments. You can do that fresh from the start or certainly, with a smaller base. So getting the data right so that AI can properly consume it and use it is a huge advantage for small businesses. Kathleen, are your clients starting to think specifically about AI?

No, and AI in particular, everybody thinks, oh, it's the big companies who are using AI. It's not true at all, in fact. I mean, we survey small businesses all the time. Almost half of them say they are looking to add AI tools into their operations this year, including in customer-facing applications. There's so many tools that are available off the shelf. These are not just big companies, smaller companies are moving into this fast. What I will say for most companies is, if you're thinking about AI for your business, one of the most important things you can do and then I'm going to use a really dry word, is think about data architecture. Any AI is only as good as the data that it can consume, and one of the advantages small firms have is they don't have a bunch of legacy data around that they have to manipulate and reformat and retool and put in different environments. You can do that fresh from the start or certainly, with a smaller base. So getting the data right so that AI can properly consume it and use it is a huge advantage for small businesses. Kathleen, are your clients starting to think specifically about AI?

Yeah, we're seeing a lot of our small business partners very focused on it. There's a lot of apprehension. They're nervous to use it. They don't know what the impact is going to be necessarily on their business, and especially those in the creative fields, I found are reticent because they feel like it's disloyal to their industry. There's going to be forced obsolescence for what they're doing once they start to use these tools for content creation. So there's one foot in, one foot out, is kind of the general MO right now.

Yeah, we're seeing a lot of our small business partners very focused on it. There's a lot of apprehension. They're nervous to use it. They don't know what the impact is going to be necessarily on their business, and especially those in the creative fields, I found are reticent because they feel like it's disloyal to their industry. There's going to be forced obsolescence for what they're doing once they start to use these tools for content creation. So there's one foot in, one foot out, is kind of the general MO right now.

Yeah, it's been interesting. I mean, on the show we've been lucky to see a few uses of it. I mean, obviously, Aadeel is using it to teach the hand how to move. We had Craig Rupp from Sabanto who's using AI algorithms to teach the tractors to drive themselves in the field. Here at Chase, we're working with a company called Venteur, who has an AI-enabled platform that helps employers, particularly small businesses, find health insurance plans and customize them to what they want. We're certainly seeing them in the creative fields, so there's nowhere that's going to go untouched. And the easiest advice is, head in the sand will not solve the problem. You have to face this even if it means obsolescence for some things.

Yeah, it's been interesting. I mean, on the show we've been lucky to see a few uses of it. I mean, obviously, Aadeel is using it to teach the hand how to move. We had Craig Rupp from Sabanto who's using AI algorithms to teach the tractors to drive themselves in the field. Here at Chase, we're working with a company called Venteur, who has an AI-enabled platform that helps employers, particularly small businesses, find health insurance plans and customize them to what they want. We're certainly seeing them in the creative fields, so there's nowhere that's going to go untouched. And the easiest advice is, head in the sand will not solve the problem. You have to face this even if it means obsolescence for some things.

That's right, and I saw you guys actually came out with a great report in January around how people are using it, how small businesses are using it, and it is a cornerstone. I thought it was really interesting that over 56% are using it for that marketing and content creation, 47% for customer service and automation, and then 44% for data analysis. So those are great ways. If you're listening right now, you're a small business owner, you're overwhelmed, you don't even know where to start, those are some potential applications for you.

That's right, and I saw you guys actually came out with a great report in January around how people are using it, how small businesses are using it, and it is a cornerstone. I thought it was really interesting that over 56% are using it for that marketing and content creation, 47% for customer service and automation, and then 44% for data analysis. So those are great ways. If you're listening right now, you're a small business owner, you're overwhelmed, you don't even know where to start, those are some potential applications for you.

Yeah, and you know, once upon a time there was someone's job to sit there with an adding machine and add up the numbers, and then Excel came out and then you could do it a different way. Now a lot of it is automated. So this is the normal cycle of technological disruption. I went to a lecture. It was a few years ago now, but it's as prescient as ever. This came out of the University of Toronto, where a lot of the initial research for AI was done. If you think about the last thirty years, the computer revolution is clearly what's happened, and what the gentleman described was what's fundamentally happened over the last thirty years is that math has gotten cheaper, because that's what computing is. You can do a lot of math. But what do you do with the math? You analyze things. And so, the parallel for today's world is what does AI do? AI makes lots of predictions. It predicts what you would write, it predicts what you'd say, it predicts what the customer wants, but that can't exist in a vacuum. So what goes with that is good judgment, and so there's going to be a whole industry around applying good judgment. I mean, prompt engineering is a great example of that. Creating a good prompt is good judgment, even though the AI then goes off and does what it does..

Yeah, and you know, once upon a time there was someone's job to sit there with an adding machine and add up the numbers, and then Excel came out and then you could do it a different way. Now a lot of it is automated. So this is the normal cycle of technological disruption. I went to a lecture. It was a few years ago now, but it's as prescient as ever. This came out of the University of Toronto, where a lot of the initial research for AI was done. If you think about the last thirty years, the computer revolution is clearly what's happened, and what the gentleman described was what's fundamentally happened over the last thirty years is that math has gotten cheaper, because that's what computing is. You can do a lot of math. But what do you do with the math? You analyze things. And so, the parallel for today's world is what does AI do? AI makes lots of predictions. It predicts what you would write, it predicts what you'd say, it predicts what the customer wants, but that can't exist in a vacuum. So what goes with that is good judgment, and so there's going to be a whole industry around applying good judgment. I mean, prompt engineering is a great example of that. Creating a good prompt is good judgment, even though the AI then goes off and does what it does..

I love that synopsis.

I love that synopsis.

Yeah, I love that, and that just reinforces that the human element will always still need to be there.

Yeah, I love that, and that just reinforces that the human element will always still need to be there.

Ultimately, Yeah. I mean, look, for most of our careers, that's the case maybe a hundred years from now, but for now, it's not that this new technology won't disrupt the way we work, it will. It's not that it won't disrupt some jobs, it will, but it will also make us more efficient and it'll create new opportunities and new careers that never existed.

Ultimately, Yeah. I mean, look, for most of our careers, that's the case maybe a hundred years from now, but for now, it's not that this new technology won't disrupt the way we work, it will. It's not that it won't disrupt some jobs, it will, but it will also make us more efficient and it'll create new opportunities and new careers that never existed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Great advice is always Kathleen, thank you so much for your insight. Now let's see what advice a deal has for our listeners. You could take this anywhere you want to. But if you had one piece of advice for our listeners, what would it be.

Great advice is always Kathleen, thank you so much for your insight. Now let's see what advice a deal has for our listeners. You could take this anywhere you want to. But if you had one piece of advice for our listeners, what would it be.

To make it through a lot of the rough times, it takes a lot of grit and a lot of gratitude. I am incredibly grateful that I get to do what my dream was to do when I was seven years old, and that's not common. At the same time, I am incredibly grateful that A, I get to work in what I've want to do my whole life, but B, the benefit that we get to bring to humanity. I think that gives me a sense of purpose that keeps me motivated to do this day in, day out.

To make it through a lot of the rough times, it takes a lot of grit and a lot of gratitude. I am incredibly grateful that I get to do what my dream was to do when I was seven years old, and that's not common. At the same time, I am incredibly grateful that A, I get to work in what I've want to do my whole life, but B, the benefit that we get to bring to humanity. I think that gives me a sense of purpose that keeps me motivated to do this day in, day out.

Well, Aadeel, I can't thank you enough for sharing your story with us. I think we're going to see some incredible stuff coming out of Psyonic, and I can't wait to be a part of it. Next time I'm in San Diego, I'm coming to visit.

Well, Aadeel, I can't thank you enough for sharing your story with us. I think we're going to see some incredible stuff coming out of Psyonic, and I can't wait to be a part of it. Next time I'm in San Diego, I'm coming to visit.

Yes, we would love to have you.

Yes, we would love to have you.

Thanks for being on The Unshakeables. Thank you, Thanks so much for listening to this episode of The Unshakeables. If you liked this episode, please rate and review it. We're going back to New York next week into the city's historic flower market. In this episode, one man's flower shop was another's opportunity to make a quick buck. Every place on the block was sued by the same complaint, and one place got sued twice. I'm Ben Walter, and this is The Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. We'll see you back here soon.

Thanks for being on The Unshakeables. Thank you, Thanks so much for listening to this episode of The Unshakeables. If you liked this episode, please rate and review it. We're going back to New York next week into the city's historic flower market. In this episode, one man's flower shop was another's opportunity to make a quick buck. Every place on the block was sued by the same complaint, and one place got sued twice. I'm Ben Walter, and this is The Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. We'll see you back here soon.