Today, We've got Charles Gasparino on this show. He's a Fox Business veteran, and we're going to ask him to unpack this wild ride we've been on since Liberation Day, you know, from the market volatility that we've seen in the media's role in fueling it, to the Trump administration's claim that they are now in trade talks with one hundred and thirty countries. We're going to cover it all and what could these deals mean for global trade? What could it mean for US revenue? What could it mean for the reshoring of manufacturing jobs to hear in the United States. Plus we'll also tackle this intensifying US trade war with China.

Today, We've got Charles Gasparino on this show. He's a Fox Business veteran, and we're going to ask him to unpack this wild ride we've been on since Liberation Day, you know, from the market volatility that we've seen in the media's role in fueling it, to the Trump administration's claim that they are now in trade talks with one hundred and thirty countries. We're going to cover it all and what could these deals mean for global trade? What could it mean for US revenue? What could it mean for the reshoring of manufacturing jobs to hear in the United States. Plus we'll also tackle this intensifying US trade war with China.

China's now slamming.

China's now slamming.

The breaks on Boeing jet orders amid these tariffs, So can the US come out on top? Can we win that trade war against China? And finally, we're going to dive into Charles's new book, Gooe Go Broke, the inside story of the radicalization of Corporate America, exploring why companies bet big on what policies to begin with, what kind of fallout to the experience, and why are they now changing their tune? Stay tuned for Fox Businesses Charles Gasprino.

The breaks on Boeing jet orders amid these tariffs, So can the US come out on top? Can we win that trade war against China? And finally, we're going to dive into Charles's new book, Gooe Go Broke, the inside story of the radicalization of Corporate America, exploring why companies bet big on what policies to begin with, what kind of fallout to the experience, and why are they now changing their tune? Stay tuned for Fox Businesses Charles Gasprino.

Well, Charles, it's great to have you on the show.

Well, Charles, it's great to have you on the show.

I really appreciate your making time, looking forward to getting your insight into everything that's been going on, So appreciate it.

I really appreciate your making time, looking forward to getting your insight into everything that's been going on, So appreciate it.

Anytime, we've seen a lot of volatility.

Anytime, we've seen a lot of volatility.

After Liberation Day, things have calmed down a little bit.

After Liberation Day, things have calmed down a little bit.

But you know, where do things stand today? You know, how do you see it?

But you know, where do things stand today? You know, how do you see it?

Well, it depends on you know who you speak to.

Well, it depends on you know who you speak to.

If you talk to people in the White House, it's a it's a work in progress that needs to be done. You know, I and I and I see I see a lot of merit in what they say.

If you talk to people in the White House, it's a it's a work in progress that needs to be done. You know, I and I and I see I see a lot of merit in what they say.

I mean there there isn't.

I mean there there isn't.

I mean, I don't think our trading relationships with other countries. Where was the even playing field that it was portrayed to be. And you know this occurred over many years. It's solidified, it ossified. I guess it's the best way you could put it into like the current the current sort of regime that we have now where it looks like and I'm gonna take you it's you know, take out some of the sort of you know, the dubious math that that that the Trump people threw out there to try to figure out, you know, how many twists we should we should how much of twists we should charge every country because it makes Israel look like a really bad player when they're not.

I mean, I don't think our trading relationships with other countries. Where was the even playing field that it was portrayed to be. And you know this occurred over many years. It's solidified, it ossified. I guess it's the best way you could put it into like the current the current sort of regime that we have now where it looks like and I'm gonna take you it's you know, take out some of the sort of you know, the dubious math that that that the Trump people threw out there to try to figure out, you know, how many twists we should we should how much of twists we should charge every country because it makes Israel look like a really bad player when they're not.

That doesn't mean they don't screw us every now and then. But you see what I'm saying.

That doesn't mean they don't screw us every now and then. But you see what I'm saying.

But I talk to a lot of people who are just you follow this straight, and they say, yeah, you know, we're at a disadvantage in these relationships. We give the world a lot, we we we defend half the world, We defend Canada and Mexico.

But I talk to a lot of people who are just you follow this straight, and they say, yeah, you know, we're at a disadvantage in these relationships. We give the world a lot, we we we defend half the world, We defend Canada and Mexico.

They come under our nuclear umbrella.

They come under our nuclear umbrella.

This is what we do for them, you know, and they still charge towers, They still put our industries at a disadvantage. And there needs to be Like I could you could see logic in doing a reset.

This is what we do for them, you know, and they still charge towers, They still put our industries at a disadvantage. And there needs to be Like I could you could see logic in doing a reset.

The question is how do you do it?

The question is how do you do it?

And do you blow up this ossified regime all at once? Do you do it piecemeal? Was now the right time? And I think all those questions there's real questioning on timing and approach. You know, taking a left turn, you know, like a sharp left turn here is going to cause tremendous amounts of confusing because it is what it is. The globe.

And do you blow up this ossified regime all at once? Do you do it piecemeal? Was now the right time? And I think all those questions there's real questioning on timing and approach. You know, taking a left turn, you know, like a sharp left turn here is going to cause tremendous amounts of confusing because it is what it is. The globe.

Our economy is a global economy.

Our economy is a global economy.

You know, to deglobalize it overnight is not You're going to get more than a little what Trump saying, am I gett.

You know, to deglobalize it overnight is not You're going to get more than a little what Trump saying, am I gett.

A little crazy here? It's going to be more than a little crazy.

A little crazy here? It's going to be more than a little crazy.

But he also said to be cool, Charles, so he said it be cool.

But he also said to be cool, Charles, so he said it be cool.

No, don't be panicking, right, that's a great I was trying.

No, don't be panicking, right, that's a great I was trying.

I was trying to figure out what I thought baby said pelican when he said Pannican.

I was trying to figure out what I thought baby said pelican when he said Pannican.

But I wasn't sure.

But I wasn't sure.

So what I had read it twice. So you're going to have massive amounts of upheable. Remember that foreigners own our debt. They could sell it. They started selling it. Last Tuesday, interest rates started a spike. They were heading towards five percent on the ten year bond, which, if you know anything about the bond market, that's trouble.

So what I had read it twice. So you're going to have massive amounts of upheable. Remember that foreigners own our debt. They could sell it. They started selling it. Last Tuesday, interest rates started a spike. They were heading towards five percent on the ten year bond, which, if you know anything about the bond market, that's trouble.

Right.

Right.

When that happens, consumer rates go up dramatically. That shows you that people don't want to hold their debt. It's just really questioned. And by the way, if the bond market seizes up and people are selling, well, you don't get your paycheck, right, because everybody's paycheck is based on your company's ability to access the commercial paper market. Because no one has the money like right there in the vaults, right you get Fox makes its money over time. You know, suppliers and you know, distributor agreements pay over time.

When that happens, consumer rates go up dramatically. That shows you that people don't want to hold their debt. It's just really questioned. And by the way, if the bond market seizes up and people are selling, well, you don't get your paycheck, right, because everybody's paycheck is based on your company's ability to access the commercial paper market. Because no one has the money like right there in the vaults, right you get Fox makes its money over time. You know, suppliers and you know, distributor agreements pay over time.

You just don't have it all there, so you roll over commercial paper.

You just don't have it all there, so you roll over commercial paper.

Is that? Why? Do you think?

Is that? Why? Do you think?

That's why the Trump campaign kind of pumped the brakes a little bit because what they were saying with the bond market, particularly with Treasure Secretary treasuryvesent.

That's why the Trump campaign kind of pumped the brakes a little bit because what they were saying with the bond market, particularly with Treasure Secretary treasuryvesent.

Yes, and they won't admit it, and you know, you'll get pushed back, but yeah, I mean they'll say, you know, I heard, like I heard from someone in not not the campaign, but in the in the White House Quality and said, no, it was the stock market's Charlie.

Yes, and they won't admit it, and you know, you'll get pushed back, but yeah, I mean they'll say, you know, I heard, like I heard from someone in not not the campaign, but in the in the White House Quality and said, no, it was the stock market's Charlie.

Wasn't the bottom?

Wasn't the bottom?

I said, well, it's literally the same thing, and big, well, how can you say that? I said, here's why if bond if bond yields go to five percent on the ten year, you're going to get a twenty percent decline in the NASDAG.

I said, well, it's literally the same thing, and big, well, how can you say that? I said, here's why if bond if bond yields go to five percent on the ten year, you're going to get a twenty percent decline in the NASDAG.

So just so you know, it's literally the same thing.

So just so you know, it's literally the same thing.

If the economy falls into recession, that stock market's going to go down dramatically.

If the economy falls into recession, that stock market's going to go down dramatically.

I mean, it's just this is all interrelated.

I mean, it's just this is all interrelated.

The bond market actually is more is more pressing because if you I mean we were coming off hides, right, We had massive hies in stock. Some of it was pumped up by biding him minute stration spending to get Kamala Harris elected. You know, he pushed out like three hundred billion dollars is a needless spending towards the towards the end there. I mean, this has been documented that pumped up the economy in the markets. That was what it was. It was attempted to do. That was it's good, its motus operanda. And you know Trump is at best in the got best in the Treasury secretary has now you know, sort of ratcheted that spending down dramatically. So some of this this market was overvalue, there's no doubt. So you can make the case that stock should fall on a on a on a change in the in the in the mindset, in the herd. But when bonds start trading off, it's a different story. That's about confidence. And when you lack confidence in the US dollar, in the US economy, in the US to pay its bills, you know, and you know, if the one thing, if we were running two trillion dollar surplus is we're running two trillion dollar budget deficits.

The bond market actually is more is more pressing because if you I mean we were coming off hides, right, We had massive hies in stock. Some of it was pumped up by biding him minute stration spending to get Kamala Harris elected. You know, he pushed out like three hundred billion dollars is a needless spending towards the towards the end there. I mean, this has been documented that pumped up the economy in the markets. That was what it was. It was attempted to do. That was it's good, its motus operanda. And you know Trump is at best in the got best in the Treasury secretary has now you know, sort of ratcheted that spending down dramatically. So some of this this market was overvalue, there's no doubt. So you can make the case that stock should fall on a on a on a change in the in the in the mindset, in the herd. But when bonds start trading off, it's a different story. That's about confidence. And when you lack confidence in the US dollar, in the US economy, in the US to pay its bills, you know, and you know, if the one thing, if we were running two trillion dollar surplus is we're running two trillion dollar budget deficits.

Which is is that lack of Is that lack of confidence unnecessary though, because you know, you look at the jobs numbers, you know they're better than expected. Inflation is taking down. You know a lot of these earnings reports have been solid. So was that volatility that we saw unnecessary?

Which is is that lack of Is that lack of confidence unnecessary though, because you know, you look at the jobs numbers, you know they're better than expected. Inflation is taking down. You know a lot of these earnings reports have been solid. So was that volatility that we saw unnecessary?

Like?

Like?

Was it media driven? Was it fear driven? Was it panic and driven?

Was it media driven? Was it fear driven? Was it panic and driven?

Well, it's always it's it's a memory of stocks, these sort of these markets always try to project rather than say, okay, the past, right, Yes, you could say before all this started, jobs were great, right, it's consumer confidence was great. You know, inflation was coming down. You could say that all all that, But that's before this started. You're trying to like, you're trying to push out your estimates for corporate earnings if these TIFFs go in effect, and there's no doubt they're going to all these companies. I mean, if you really hit Now, we don't know whether really Apple has an exemption or not, right, is it do they or don't they? I think they have a temporary exemption because the White House has been kind of tucking out of both sides. Right, first, there's and there's something that leaks out on a Friday at ten o'clock about all these exemptions that would have created a massive rally in tech stocks, particularly for Apple. And the reason why is because if Apple got hit, if all those tariffs came in the way Trump and the White House initially proposed it, Apple stock is probably overvalued by like fifteen to twenty percent. Okay, there's no doubt, just given like its operations, how it produces an iPhone, if it had to bring everything home, how it would be triple the price at least initially. You know, things settle out, but you know you want to pay three four thousand dollars for an iPhone? Okay, that's probably what would have happened if you really pushed them to do what was stated, like given them an exemption that ratcheted it back. Right then people were like, oh, thank god, the Nasdaq was set yesterday for a massive rally. And then you know, as you know, on Sunday, the presence of now these are temporary exemptions, and then guess what happens. You know, the rally is kind of muted. I looked at this doctorate actually in NAZAC turned red yesterday for a bit, and today everything looks like it's going to open down red. And Apple even yesterday was up two percent, it should have been up ten percent. So what I'm saying is no one wants to take losses, all right. What they're projecting is the policy and how the policy impacts the balance sheet of Apple, of the of the of corporate earnings. And no matter now, long term, this might be great for the country long term, it may be great for Apple for all I know. Short term, at the very least, you know it's going to be a problematic for their bottom line and the markets. And then there's the question whether this could be done differently, like not with a sledgehammer, but with a scalpel. And I think that's kind of what Scott Best is suggesting will happen.

Well, it's always it's it's a memory of stocks, these sort of these markets always try to project rather than say, okay, the past, right, Yes, you could say before all this started, jobs were great, right, it's consumer confidence was great. You know, inflation was coming down. You could say that all all that, But that's before this started. You're trying to like, you're trying to push out your estimates for corporate earnings if these TIFFs go in effect, and there's no doubt they're going to all these companies. I mean, if you really hit Now, we don't know whether really Apple has an exemption or not, right, is it do they or don't they? I think they have a temporary exemption because the White House has been kind of tucking out of both sides. Right, first, there's and there's something that leaks out on a Friday at ten o'clock about all these exemptions that would have created a massive rally in tech stocks, particularly for Apple. And the reason why is because if Apple got hit, if all those tariffs came in the way Trump and the White House initially proposed it, Apple stock is probably overvalued by like fifteen to twenty percent. Okay, there's no doubt, just given like its operations, how it produces an iPhone, if it had to bring everything home, how it would be triple the price at least initially. You know, things settle out, but you know you want to pay three four thousand dollars for an iPhone? Okay, that's probably what would have happened if you really pushed them to do what was stated, like given them an exemption that ratcheted it back. Right then people were like, oh, thank god, the Nasdaq was set yesterday for a massive rally. And then you know, as you know, on Sunday, the presence of now these are temporary exemptions, and then guess what happens. You know, the rally is kind of muted. I looked at this doctorate actually in NAZAC turned red yesterday for a bit, and today everything looks like it's going to open down red. And Apple even yesterday was up two percent, it should have been up ten percent. So what I'm saying is no one wants to take losses, all right. What they're projecting is the policy and how the policy impacts the balance sheet of Apple, of the of the of corporate earnings. And no matter now, long term, this might be great for the country long term, it may be great for Apple for all I know. Short term, at the very least, you know it's going to be a problematic for their bottom line and the markets. And then there's the question whether this could be done differently, like not with a sledgehammer, but with a scalpel. And I think that's kind of what Scott Best is suggesting will happen.

But who knows. We don't know this.

But who knows. We don't know this.

There's obviously a disagreement in the White House as to who what what approach you should take.

There's obviously a disagreement in the White House as to who what what approach you should take.

But I guess with the Trump administry, you know, with President Trump, we know with the art of the deal, he likes to pick sort of like the extreme and then sort of maneuver his opponent into a better position. I know, you know, I want to ask you, so let's talk about what could happen.

But I guess with the Trump administry, you know, with President Trump, we know with the art of the deal, he likes to pick sort of like the extreme and then sort of maneuver his opponent into a better position. I know, you know, I want to ask you, so let's talk about what could happen.

Right, like, what did this back up?

Right, like, what did this back up?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Now I was one of the few people when he was looking like a trade hawker, said no, he's going to deal.

Now I was one of the few people when he was looking like a trade hawker, said no, he's going to deal.

And I've written quote columns on it.

And I've written quote columns on it.

I was on it literally a podcast the day before he did his ninety day pause.

I was on it literally a podcast the day before he did his ninety day pause.

I said, this is art of the deal writ large.

I said, this is art of the deal writ large.

In my view, he's going to back off. And then he did back off, but then he didn't back off. And I think if you're going to do this, expect a lot more craziness and you know market's going to sell off.

In my view, he's going to back off. And then he did back off, but then he didn't back off. And I think if you're going to do this, expect a lot more craziness and you know market's going to sell off.

We're going to have you know, businesses will retract.

We're going to have you know, businesses will retract.

Listen, businesses have to prepare for tomorrow, not for yesterday.

Listen, businesses have to prepare for tomorrow, not for yesterday.

You know, you got to give them a roadmap.

You know, you got to give them a roadmap.

If you don't get if you want to do Art of the Deal, you know, you might have a recession because of it.

If you don't get if you want to do Art of the Deal, you know, you might have a recession because of it.

I mean that's now maybe it's worth it just telling you.

I mean that's now maybe it's worth it just telling you.

I don't I don't know, I'm I I could see the rationale for these Trump rejiggering trade Just telling you to be prepared for a recession because businesses in the face of uncertainty are going to cut back. Now, if you interviewed someone at the Wall Street Journal editorial page, they would say it's much worse. All right, I'm just telling you. I'm trying to be fair here. I mean, there's no doubt we're going to get an economic slow down here. There's just no doubt. We're probably already in a recession. No doubt because even left in the run up to this thing, with the sort of talk about it, you know, don't answer me why they were surprised.

I don't I don't know, I'm I I could see the rationale for these Trump rejiggering trade Just telling you to be prepared for a recession because businesses in the face of uncertainty are going to cut back. Now, if you interviewed someone at the Wall Street Journal editorial page, they would say it's much worse. All right, I'm just telling you. I'm trying to be fair here. I mean, there's no doubt we're going to get an economic slow down here. There's just no doubt. We're probably already in a recession. No doubt because even left in the run up to this thing, with the sort of talk about it, you know, don't answer me why they were surprised.

I don't know.

I don't know.

The one thing if you know about Donald Trump's all he's been talking about is towers the last two years, is that is that businesses were starting to cut back when the more you spoke about it post inaugural and you know, you know, so we were already probably getting a slow down. And then when you announced the plan, it was a stoppage of spending, an advance and expansion and you know whatever, you know, stuff that makes the economy hum.

The one thing if you know about Donald Trump's all he's been talking about is towers the last two years, is that is that businesses were starting to cut back when the more you spoke about it post inaugural and you know, you know, so we were already probably getting a slow down. And then when you announced the plan, it was a stoppage of spending, an advance and expansion and you know whatever, you know, stuff that makes the economy hum.

That is stopped. Now, Okay, how do you get it going?

That is stopped. Now, Okay, how do you get it going?

Is I guess how long this all this takes, how what shape it takes, you know, what type of I guess messaging comes out of the White House.

Is I guess how long this all this takes, how what shape it takes, you know, what type of I guess messaging comes out of the White House.

It's this is complicated stuff.

It's this is complicated stuff.

Let's say let's say they start, you know, they say that there's been a one hundred and thirty countries that have reached out. Let's say they start rolling out some of these you know, renegotiations, and you've got better trade deals with countries, You've got more revenue coming into the country, you start to get some restoring of you know, manufacturing coming back to the United States, and like beefing that up. What could that look like for the economy?

Let's say let's say they start, you know, they say that there's been a one hundred and thirty countries that have reached out. Let's say they start rolling out some of these you know, renegotiations, and you've got better trade deals with countries, You've got more revenue coming into the country, you start to get some restoring of you know, manufacturing coming back to the United States, and like beefing that up. What could that look like for the economy?

That would be great, But you're making it sound like I don't think you're doing it on purpose, that you can just snap your finger and that's what's going to happen.

That would be great, But you're making it sound like I don't think you're doing it on purpose, that you can just snap your finger and that's what's going to happen.

No, I mean, I know, even trade deals.

No, I mean, I know, even trade deals.

You know, I think the average for the bilateral deals is like one point five, but these might be less complicated than that.

You know, I think the average for the bilateral deals is like one point five, but these might be less complicated than that.

And then you know, I mean, all these deals are complicated, and the economy is like a big ship, you know, turn in and around from when it's going one way to another. It's not easy. It's going to take some time. So remember this is I mean, if you're just purely myopically focused on the midterms, you hope it turns around in a year, right, But you know, because there's a lot on the line here. But I'm just telling you this is this is difficult stuff.

And then you know, I mean, all these deals are complicated, and the economy is like a big ship, you know, turn in and around from when it's going one way to another. It's not easy. It's going to take some time. So remember this is I mean, if you're just purely myopically focused on the midterms, you hope it turns around in a year, right, But you know, because there's a lot on the line here. But I'm just telling you this is this is difficult stuff.

I'm not saying it's the president.

I'm not saying it's the president.

I'm not going to give you the Wall Street Journal editorial page interpretation of it.

I'm not going to give you the Wall Street Journal editorial page interpretation of it.

But I can tell you that if you if you just just to.

But I can tell you that if you if you just just to.

Say, this is the art of the deal, and he's gonna win, and blah blah blah, there's gonna be pain, a lot of pain here at some you know, until we get this trade. I mean, it's gonna be a lot of nuttiness. Markets are going to go crazy. You know, we're gonna you know, we're gonna have some issues. And we haven't even seen it, like how it really alls. We've seen is like consumer sentiment numbers, you know, post towers, which haven't been good. We haven't seen how the how the economy is kind of reacting to it. So I would just say, buckle up. It's going to be a little bit of a and you know, there's good stuff coming from the Trump with the Trump economy. He's got tax cuts, hopefully we can get that passed, deregulation doge all that's great stuff. Listen, Elon wouldn't have went so public, crazy public.

Say, this is the art of the deal, and he's gonna win, and blah blah blah, there's gonna be pain, a lot of pain here at some you know, until we get this trade. I mean, it's gonna be a lot of nuttiness. Markets are going to go crazy. You know, we're gonna you know, we're gonna have some issues. And we haven't even seen it, like how it really alls. We've seen is like consumer sentiment numbers, you know, post towers, which haven't been good. We haven't seen how the how the economy is kind of reacting to it. So I would just say, buckle up. It's going to be a little bit of a and you know, there's good stuff coming from the Trump with the Trump economy. He's got tax cuts, hopefully we can get that passed, deregulation doge all that's great stuff. Listen, Elon wouldn't have went so public, crazy public.

If this wasn't like what the way I'm explaining it.

If this wasn't like what the way I'm explaining it.

And that it takes a lot for a guy that's in the White House to kind of to say what he said, even though it's Elon is known for shooting from the hip, He's wants to know he's in the room with the President and all these guys, and he'd literally called Peter Navarro the architect the art word this.

And that it takes a lot for a guy that's in the White House to kind of to say what he said, even though it's Elon is known for shooting from the hip, He's wants to know he's in the room with the President and all these guys, and he'd literally called Peter Navarro the architect the art word this.

Although it seems like Besen is driving this like it seems like Trump is really leaning on him. And I've heard Remy you know better than me, but I've heard nothing. But you know, he's one of the best, probably the best Treasury sectory we've ever had, and the most qualified.

Although it seems like Besen is driving this like it seems like Trump is really leaning on him. And I've heard Remy you know better than me, but I've heard nothing. But you know, he's one of the best, probably the best Treasury sectory we've ever had, and the most qualified.

Well I wouldn't say it's the best. I mean, there's been a lot of good ones. You know.

Well I wouldn't say it's the best. I mean, there's been a lot of good ones. You know.

Bob Ruben did a great job in the nineteen nineties. He's a really smart guy. He's been in that job not not too long. Listen, this is a career moment for him. He could literally save the US economy. He could smooth the waters or this thing could blow up.

Bob Ruben did a great job in the nineteen nineties. He's a really smart guy. He's been in that job not not too long. Listen, this is a career moment for him. He could literally save the US economy. He could smooth the waters or this thing could blow up.

You know.

You know.

One of the problems I you know, I think is that if you look at the approach, this should have been a tertiary sort of or secondary concerned and policy.

One of the problems I you know, I think is that if you look at the approach, this should have been a tertiary sort of or secondary concerned and policy.

Change that they made.

Change that they made.

I mean, I still don't understand why they went for trade when they didn't get the tax cuts, when the economy wasn't even growing at two percent, and who knows we were going to get a slow down anyway, right because they were cutting back on spending. Doge was just part of that, but they were not doing the massive spending that the Biden did.

I mean, I still don't understand why they went for trade when they didn't get the tax cuts, when the economy wasn't even growing at two percent, and who knows we were going to get a slow down anyway, right because they were cutting back on spending. Doge was just part of that, but they were not doing the massive spending that the Biden did.

We were going to get some slow down.

We were going to get some slow down.

If you're going to go and turn the world upside down, kind of best to do it when you're I wouldn't do it anyway. I do much more piecemeal, but best to do it when you're growing at three percent and then you know best and you know, have them do deals. And that would have been the sort of, I guess, the more logical way of doing it. But they just didn't do that. And you know, you get the impression that you know, listen, this is the way Trump operates. But you know, you play with people's lives here. It's one thing to turn the world upside down on DEI, right, most people hate DEI. Okay, It's just like, you know, it's one thing to build a wall and say we're going to change our immigration policy one thousand percent. Most people hate the fact that people can jump across a pond, a stream and become an American citizen right and get all our welfare benefits.

If you're going to go and turn the world upside down, kind of best to do it when you're I wouldn't do it anyway. I do much more piecemeal, but best to do it when you're growing at three percent and then you know best and you know, have them do deals. And that would have been the sort of, I guess, the more logical way of doing it. But they just didn't do that. And you know, you get the impression that you know, listen, this is the way Trump operates. But you know, you play with people's lives here. It's one thing to turn the world upside down on DEI, right, most people hate DEI. Okay, It's just like, you know, it's one thing to build a wall and say we're going to change our immigration policy one thousand percent. Most people hate the fact that people can jump across a pond, a stream and become an American citizen right and get all our welfare benefits.

You know.

You know.

Most people kind of like tax cuts. Most people want certain things. So these are not controversial issues. You start screwing with the economy, you better be sure on how you're doing it, okay, And I'm I said, I'm just a simple country reporter. I've been doing this a long time, thirty five years, been covering economics. Someone called me an economic an economist the other I said, I'm not. I just cover it, you know, so what do I know?

Most people kind of like tax cuts. Most people want certain things. So these are not controversial issues. You start screwing with the economy, you better be sure on how you're doing it, okay, And I'm I said, I'm just a simple country reporter. I've been doing this a long time, thirty five years, been covering economics. Someone called me an economic an economist the other I said, I'm not. I just cover it, you know, so what do I know?

But but.

But but.

I just think the approach you was kind of just not smart.

I just think the approach you was kind of just not smart.

And I worry that you know, can bestn't even put put put it back in and put the genie back in the bottle, I mean, which is kind of what he's trying.

And I worry that you know, can bestn't even put put put it back in and put the genie back in the bottle, I mean, which is kind of what he's trying.

And particularly when you.

And particularly when you.

Have like like multiple spokes, when you have Howard Lutnik one day best into the next and it's you know.

Have like like multiple spokes, when you have Howard Lutnik one day best into the next and it's you know.

Quick break.

Quick break.

But first Israel is still under attack, missile fire has resumed from hu Thi's Hasbalah and hamas enemies seeking Israel's destruction. Here in America, we cannot imagine living under constant threat of terrorism and rocket attacks.

But first Israel is still under attack, missile fire has resumed from hu Thi's Hasbalah and hamas enemies seeking Israel's destruction. Here in America, we cannot imagine living under constant threat of terrorism and rocket attacks.

This is the reality in Israel.

This is the reality in Israel.

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A gift today will help provide security essentials like bomb shelters, flag jackets, and bulletproof vests.

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Also things like armored security vehicles, ambulances, and so much more. Join me in standing with Israel. Call to make your gift at eight eight eight for a eight I f c J. That's eight eight eight four a eight four three two five, or you can go online at support i f CJ dot org to give one word support I f CJ dot org. The Big Wars with China. I guess you know how do you win a trade war with China? And then and then I want to get it into your book because you did mention Dei and that's a good segue.

Also things like armored security vehicles, ambulances, and so much more. Join me in standing with Israel. Call to make your gift at eight eight eight for a eight I f c J. That's eight eight eight four a eight four three two five, or you can go online at support i f CJ dot org to give one word support I f CJ dot org. The Big Wars with China. I guess you know how do you win a trade war with China? And then and then I want to get it into your book because you did mention Dei and that's a good segue.

But with China, what's interesting to me is that one way, if you, if you, if, if you, if you surmise it that you know, the worst economic actor out there and trade is China. What you want to do is build a coalition against China, which is why that ninety day pause was created. But it was after the fact where you kind of piss off everybody to you know what I'm saying, so and you didn't really take the tarofts off the table.

But with China, what's interesting to me is that one way, if you, if you, if, if you, if you surmise it that you know, the worst economic actor out there and trade is China. What you want to do is build a coalition against China, which is why that ninety day pause was created. But it was after the fact where you kind of piss off everybody to you know what I'm saying, so and you didn't really take the tarofts off the table.

So that's so that's what I mean by approach.

So that's so that's what I mean by approach.

You know, you could have said, listen, they're bad, we want to we want to start here, and let's get a coalition of the willing and let's do some trade agreements with the Europeans where you know, I mean, there was a way of doing this that that isolated China. Now because China, will China be isolated? Listen, Chinese economy is horrible right now. It's depending on who you talk to. It's you know, I talk to people that study it. It's either you know, recession or deep deep depression or borderline depression. The Chinese manipulate their currency to keep their their trade deficit. Uh you know, you know they did not have a trade defferent of a massive That's how they fund their their entire countries largesse they have. They have like I don't know, a million people at least in poverty.

You know, you could have said, listen, they're bad, we want to we want to start here, and let's get a coalition of the willing and let's do some trade agreements with the Europeans where you know, I mean, there was a way of doing this that that isolated China. Now because China, will China be isolated? Listen, Chinese economy is horrible right now. It's depending on who you talk to. It's you know, I talk to people that study it. It's either you know, recession or deep deep depression or borderline depression. The Chinese manipulate their currency to keep their their trade deficit. Uh you know, you know they did not have a trade defferent of a massive That's how they fund their their entire countries largesse they have. They have like I don't know, a million people at least in poverty.

They have huge poverty rates.

They have huge poverty rates.

Still, you know that that's kind of a screwed up place, you know, besides being a repressive sometimes evil regime, they you know, they need access to our markets. There's no doubt about that. We would like some things from them, and we do sell stuff to them. We sell a lot of wheat and stuff.

Still, you know that that's kind of a screwed up place, you know, besides being a repressive sometimes evil regime, they you know, they need access to our markets. There's no doubt about that. We would like some things from them, and we do sell stuff to them. We sell a lot of wheat and stuff.

You know.

You know.

That's why you keep reading that Trump might bail out the farmers, right, you read.

That's why you keep reading that Trump might bail out the farmers, right, you read.

That all the time.

That all the time.

There's also a lot of manufacturers have.

There's also a lot of manufacturers have.

Have plants in China, and you know Apple does as well.

Have plants in China, and you know Apple does as well.

And if you want to, if you want to destroy Apple or throw it a wicked curve bol to or you know, a fast pitch to that skull and knock knock it out, forcing it overnight to put all its plants in the US is kind of how how you do that? And now you could say does Apple matter? They do employ people here Apple, you know, it is a big company that pays taxes. So just remember this is this is all it's related. There are things that Trump wants that of China it wants. He wants TikTok, which they have to approve, which as of now that tails off the table. He wants the ports in and the Panama Canal ports to be sold to Blackstone, a black rock, which is an American company that needs Chinese approval g to improve it, improve it. He wants, you know, access to their market. So there's there's negotiating here. But you know, think about that negotiation on top of everything else. That's a lot of work.

And if you want to, if you want to destroy Apple or throw it a wicked curve bol to or you know, a fast pitch to that skull and knock knock it out, forcing it overnight to put all its plants in the US is kind of how how you do that? And now you could say does Apple matter? They do employ people here Apple, you know, it is a big company that pays taxes. So just remember this is this is all it's related. There are things that Trump wants that of China it wants. He wants TikTok, which they have to approve, which as of now that tails off the table. He wants the ports in and the Panama Canal ports to be sold to Blackstone, a black rock, which is an American company that needs Chinese approval g to improve it, improve it. He wants, you know, access to their market. So there's there's negotiating here. But you know, think about that negotiation on top of everything else. That's a lot of work.

Man.

Man.

Although I will say, people criticize.

Although I will say, people criticize.

Trump for his approach with NATO, and he got them to pay more.

Trump for his approach with NATO, and he got them to pay more.

So okay, that's an easy negotiation. You pay more because we've been paying everything.

So okay, that's an easy negotiation. You pay more because we've been paying everything.

Isn't that what he's saying with some of these trade deals that it hasn't been reciprocal.

Isn't that what he's saying with some of these trade deals that it hasn't been reciprocal.

Yeah, in a.

Yeah, in a.

Similar vein he is.

Similar vein he is.

But that doesn't send it When you say that to NATO.

But that doesn't send it When you say that to NATO.

Over over you know, over their their ability inability to pay for their own defense, it doesn't it doesn't like take the stock market down by the gazillion points.

Over over you know, over their their ability inability to pay for their own defense, it doesn't it doesn't like take the stock market down by the gazillion points.

It doesn't. People don't retrench in their business.

It doesn't. People don't retrench in their business.

I guarantee when he said that, not one business cut workers or cut expansion. And that's the difference here is this is much more existential.

I guarantee when he said that, not one business cut workers or cut expansion. And that's the difference here is this is much more existential.

Americans care about the economy.

Americans care about the economy.

There's one thing I know about covering business for the last thirty five years. It's the economy stupid. That was the best line ever that Carville came up with. And it's so true. And so when you start screwing with the economy, and I know you say, well, the stock market's not the economy, but it kind of is. You know when you when when stocks go down, that's reacting to, you know, where the real economy might go, particularly if it keeps going down. Like initially I thought this was all ds. This was like you know, things with you know, Trump would negotiate. This is just he's just threatening. This is before he announced the hard and fast trade rules, and you know he would negotiate and businesses would would you know, stop retrenching. And then when he went full on, it was like the shot across the values. It showed that he was serious. And then you really do have a retrenchment if you go full on on NATO not paying its fair share and you and you don't fund NATO for a quarter and I'm telling you no, no business is going to react to that.

There's one thing I know about covering business for the last thirty five years. It's the economy stupid. That was the best line ever that Carville came up with. And it's so true. And so when you start screwing with the economy, and I know you say, well, the stock market's not the economy, but it kind of is. You know when you when when stocks go down, that's reacting to, you know, where the real economy might go, particularly if it keeps going down. Like initially I thought this was all ds. This was like you know, things with you know, Trump would negotiate. This is just he's just threatening. This is before he announced the hard and fast trade rules, and you know he would negotiate and businesses would would you know, stop retrenching. And then when he went full on, it was like the shot across the values. It showed that he was serious. And then you really do have a retrenchment if you go full on on NATO not paying its fair share and you and you don't fund NATO for a quarter and I'm telling you no, no business is going to react to that.

But I'm just saying, in the similar nature where he was criticized for his approach and his way of handling NATO and he did get them to pay more.

But I'm just saying, in the similar nature where he was criticized for his approach and his way of handling NATO and he did get them to pay more.

I'm sure we're going to get deals out of this. Yeah, we will. The question is alan will take and was it worth a recession?

I'm sure we're going to get deals out of this. Yeah, we will. The question is alan will take and was it worth a recession?

But when you have to calm some of the jitters, when if he just announced like a like one or two of here's the negotiation, Like, whenn't that kind of settle.

But when you have to calm some of the jitters, when if he just announced like a like one or two of here's the negotiation, Like, whenn't that kind of settle.

Because it isn't.

Because it isn't.

I mean a lot of this is reactionary, right, it's you know, And so if you were able to outline here are a couple of things that we've already been able to do in negotiation, when that calms some of these jitters.

I mean a lot of this is reactionary, right, it's you know, And so if you were able to outline here are a couple of things that we've already been able to do in negotiation, when that calms some of these jitters.

That would help.

That would help.

Yeah, I just wonder if some of this is baked in now, by the way, if you have just I.

Yeah, I just wonder if some of this is baked in now, by the way, if you have just I.

Mean, first off, you have to see the deals that are cut.

Mean, first off, you have to see the deals that are cut.

You know, we don't know in this interim period you're going to have businesses scaling back. It's just is what it is. You will have a recession now because we're going whole hog with China. Does that mean you know what else happens there? I mean, they are a big, a big player here.

You know, we don't know in this interim period you're going to have businesses scaling back. It's just is what it is. You will have a recession now because we're going whole hog with China. Does that mean you know what else happens there? I mean, they are a big, a big player here.

We're gonna.

We're gonna.

I guess my biggest my bigger point is once you open this door, you know, you know, when you break it, you kind of own it, you know what I'm saying. And so this is not going to settle out that fast. That doesn't mean long term.

I guess my biggest my bigger point is once you open this door, you know, you know, when you break it, you kind of own it, you know what I'm saying. And so this is not going to settle out that fast. That doesn't mean long term.

I guess my only question would be is it broken?

I guess my only question would be is it broken?

It is breaking?

It is breaking?

Yeah, And you know here's the thing, It's impossible to break our economy totally.

Yeah, And you know here's the thing, It's impossible to break our economy totally.

Right. We are a you know, you know, we're thirty trillion dollar economy.

Right. We are a you know, you know, we're thirty trillion dollar economy.

It's it's very multi layered. It's not just trade is twenty percent of it. That's big, but it's not the biggest part obviously. But you know, you take a twenty percent hit on something, you want to take a twenty percent hit on your your paycheck?

It's it's very multi layered. It's not just trade is twenty percent of it. That's big, but it's not the biggest part obviously. But you know, you take a twenty percent hit on something, you want to take a twenty percent hit on your your paycheck?

Think about it.

Think about it.

I mean the answer is obviously no, But I don't. I mean, I mean, you've written I mean, let you know, we.

I mean the answer is obviously no, But I don't. I mean, I mean, you've written I mean, let you know, we.

Can talk get into your latest book but you know, you also wrote the sellout about the two thousand and eight financial crisis, which you know, obviously it was way worse than where we are now.

Can talk get into your latest book but you know, you also wrote the sellout about the two thousand and eight financial crisis, which you know, obviously it was way worse than where we are now.

You know, you wrote that.

You know, you wrote that.

Your latest book is Go Go Broke, The Inside Story the Radicalization of Corporate America. I guess why do you think these companies went roke? And and what were the consequences of those companies going woke?

Your latest book is Go Go Broke, The Inside Story the Radicalization of Corporate America. I guess why do you think these companies went roke? And and what were the consequences of those companies going woke?

Yeah?

Yeah?

And by the way, that's why you can't when they when you trot out Jamie Diamond and this one and that one, it's hard to take them serious on this thing because they engaged in some really bad behavior.

And by the way, that's why you can't when they when you trot out Jamie Diamond and this one and that one, it's hard to take them serious on this thing because they engaged in some really bad behavior.

Right. They literally became a.

Right. They literally became a.

Arm of the radical democratic left, and they helped propagate a lie. I think it's a lie that this country is uniquely evil. It had a unique history of racism, it had a unique history of slavery, it's uniquely you know, its foundation is uniquely uh malicious on all things involving race and sex and the sexual preference using the name you know that that these evil.

Arm of the radical democratic left, and they helped propagate a lie. I think it's a lie that this country is uniquely evil. It had a unique history of racism, it had a unique history of slavery, it's uniquely you know, its foundation is uniquely uh malicious on all things involving race and sex and the sexual preference using the name you know that that these evil.

White guys created this thing that needs to be ripped down.

White guys created this thing that needs to be ripped down.

That's what the left has been propagating at universities for for many years. And then all of a sudden bingo. Guess what corporations started adopting that. And my book kind of tries to tries to explain the it's an explanation of how it got there and what's and what's causing them to back off it now is obviously you've got a guy again doing something that most Americans support, and that's de radicalizing not just universities, but corporations that mimicked what the universities were doing. And I, you know, like how they got there, It is hard to really explain. You know, there was there was there was a shift in attitude in the boardroom. There were much you know, you went from Jack Welsh types who had a heavy who were more conservative and had a heavy hand in believing in profits over over over social issues, to a CEO class that was more liberal, more progressive.

That's what the left has been propagating at universities for for many years. And then all of a sudden bingo. Guess what corporations started adopting that. And my book kind of tries to tries to explain the it's an explanation of how it got there and what's and what's causing them to back off it now is obviously you've got a guy again doing something that most Americans support, and that's de radicalizing not just universities, but corporations that mimicked what the universities were doing. And I, you know, like how they got there, It is hard to really explain. You know, there was there was there was a shift in attitude in the boardroom. There were much you know, you went from Jack Welsh types who had a heavy who were more conservative and had a heavy hand in believing in profits over over over social issues, to a CEO class that was more liberal, more progressive.

You also had, you know, various investment techniques.

You also had, you know, various investment techniques.

That that caused this to happen. You had HR departments that became radicalized to the left.

That that caused this to happen. You had HR departments that became radicalized to the left.

I never knew.

I never knew.

Anybody really wanted too HR, but somehow HR became this sort of breeding ground of of of various theories involving you know, how to take tell white white guys that you're.

Anybody really wanted too HR, but somehow HR became this sort of breeding ground of of of various theories involving you know, how to take tell white white guys that you're.

Not qualified, and how to push everybody.

Not qualified, and how to push everybody.

Else up the ladder based on a sort of determination of points on your your sexuality, your your race, and your sex. You know, it's it was just, you know, it was white men, white women, you know what I mean. There was this weird, this weird sort of I put it, you know, a hierarchy that that that that came to be with the HR departments of every major corporation started to consider in hiring and promotion. And that's some of that was through these investment techniques like ESG. You know, remember Environmental Social governments involves the environment. People hated it because it forced oil companies to cut back on oil when we needed oil. Right, remember how oil prices spiked during the during the Ukraine being evaded by by Russia.

Else up the ladder based on a sort of determination of points on your your sexuality, your your race, and your sex. You know, it's it was just, you know, it was white men, white women, you know what I mean. There was this weird, this weird sort of I put it, you know, a hierarchy that that that that came to be with the HR departments of every major corporation started to consider in hiring and promotion. And that's some of that was through these investment techniques like ESG. You know, remember Environmental Social governments involves the environment. People hated it because it forced oil companies to cut back on oil when we needed oil. Right, remember how oil prices spiked during the during the Ukraine being evaded by by Russia.

We had we had massive inflation.

We had we had massive inflation.

Well, one of the reasons why it spiked massively is because you had ESG telling oil companies they should invest in windmills, not oil drilling. Okay, The S and the G part of that was interesting because that involves some of these some of this DEI stuff that you read about, and that became sort of a a corporate It was almost like a sort of cult following in corporate America, and it reached its.

Well, one of the reasons why it spiked massively is because you had ESG telling oil companies they should invest in windmills, not oil drilling. Okay, The S and the G part of that was interesting because that involves some of these some of this DEI stuff that you read about, and that became sort of a a corporate It was almost like a sort of cult following in corporate America, and it reached its.

High point during the George Floyd thing.

High point during the George Floyd thing.

I mean literally, I uncovered in an article in Bloomberg that said, like ninety five percent of all hiring following the George Floyd riots did not involve a white guy in SMP five hundred companies. It was some astronomical number, and it was obviously rank discrimination. And then it permeated through other ways. I mean there was a cultural issue here too. I mean, how did you get Dylan mulvaney, you know, a trans woman sipping a bud Budweiser half naked in a bubble bath as a commercial. Well that only happened because of this whole DEI and how it permeated advertising, and and you know how that how all that happened, And how did you get you know, Disney doing business with China, going out of its way to do business one of the most repressive regimes in the world. But year at home, implementing hiring quotas that are that go down from from from actors to producers to even pages have to fit this intersectionality matrix.

I mean literally, I uncovered in an article in Bloomberg that said, like ninety five percent of all hiring following the George Floyd riots did not involve a white guy in SMP five hundred companies. It was some astronomical number, and it was obviously rank discrimination. And then it permeated through other ways. I mean there was a cultural issue here too. I mean, how did you get Dylan mulvaney, you know, a trans woman sipping a bud Budweiser half naked in a bubble bath as a commercial. Well that only happened because of this whole DEI and how it permeated advertising, and and you know how that how all that happened, And how did you get you know, Disney doing business with China, going out of its way to do business one of the most repressive regimes in the world. But year at home, implementing hiring quotas that are that go down from from from actors to producers to even pages have to fit this intersectionality matrix.

How does they do how do they how do you.

How does they do how do they how do you.

Get Disney for god knows why just throwing in a children's movie a same sex kissing scene that may made no sense, right, why would you do that?

Get Disney for god knows why just throwing in a children's movie a same sex kissing scene that may made no sense, right, why would you do that?

Well, it's all part of this matrix.

Well, it's all part of this matrix.

And you know, why would Target spend a month on, you know, on celebrating Pride Month. Why would in its stores when It's stores are generally targeted to use the word target to a middle American family, some woman that's you know, that comes in there with two kids because they can't afford a nanny and they have to walk by us rows and rows of rainbow colored onesies and books about transit teenagers.

And you know, why would Target spend a month on, you know, on celebrating Pride Month. Why would in its stores when It's stores are generally targeted to use the word target to a middle American family, some woman that's you know, that comes in there with two kids because they can't afford a nanny and they have to walk by us rows and rows of rainbow colored onesies and books about transit teenagers.

I mean, that's what happened. There's no doubt. I document.

I mean, that's what happened. There's no doubt. I document.

We've got to take a quick break more with Charles on the other side. So you mentioned Jamie Diamond. I can't image. I mean you, I've never met the guy, so you know him better than me. But like, I can't imagine he subscribes to this stuff that you just laid out.

We've got to take a quick break more with Charles on the other side. So you mentioned Jamie Diamond. I can't image. I mean you, I've never met the guy, so you know him better than me. But like, I can't imagine he subscribes to this stuff that you just laid out.

So it's like, was he he does he did?

So it's like, was he he does he did?

So is it like was it because it was held captive or you know, is he well or does he believe it?

So is it like was it because it was held captive or you know, is he well or does he believe it?

You know what I mean?

You know what I mean?

Like, like, how many of these CEOs felt like they were being held hostage by this versus you know, you know, believers.

Like, like, how many of these CEOs felt like they were being held hostage by this versus you know, you know, believers.

You have to realize the sort of milieu that we live in versus what they live in. They live in, you know, the the upper class of Manhattan society. They all go to Ivy League schools. It's all kind of you know, there's a there's a there's a feedback loop that promotes this stuff, this notion of diversity, and it has to be rigid and almost quota like. After George Floyd, they all felt that that that their their beliefs were confirmed because some ex con in Minneapolis, you know, unfortunately died.

You have to realize the sort of milieu that we live in versus what they live in. They live in, you know, the the upper class of Manhattan society. They all go to Ivy League schools. It's all kind of you know, there's a there's a there's a feedback loop that promotes this stuff, this notion of diversity, and it has to be rigid and almost quota like. After George Floyd, they all felt that that that their their beliefs were confirmed because some ex con in Minneapolis, you know, unfortunately died.

While he was being when he was resisting arrest.

While he was being when he was resisting arrest.

That's kind of what happened, no matter which way you put it, whether you think the cop used extras force or didn't. He was resisting arrest, he had tons of fentanyl in his system, he had he was not very healthy, probably had COVID at the time, and he died, and that unleashed this sort of massive hysteria that they were too weak to fight back on. I remember when it was going down. I I this is before I was even write the book. I was like, why aren't they saying that this is bs. Why are they allowing Why are they, like on CNBC saying that, you know, America is systemically racist.

That's kind of what happened, no matter which way you put it, whether you think the cop used extras force or didn't. He was resisting arrest, he had tons of fentanyl in his system, he had he was not very healthy, probably had COVID at the time, and he died, and that unleashed this sort of massive hysteria that they were too weak to fight back on. I remember when it was going down. I I this is before I was even write the book. I was like, why aren't they saying that this is bs. Why are they allowing Why are they, like on CNBC saying that, you know, America is systemically racist.

I mean, why are they doing that?

I mean, why are they doing that?

They must really believe it, you know, why are they you know, and the first Trump administration at the end, you know, you know it was very uneven.

They must really believe it, you know, why are they you know, and the first Trump administration at the end, you know, you know it was very uneven.

You know, it was we had COVID.

You know, it was we had COVID.

It was it was a strange time that that touched off the the the wokeness in corporate America, that that reached new highs or I would say new lows if you ask me. But it did happen, and it was and to think it happened overnight, you'd be wrong.

It was it was a strange time that that touched off the the the wokeness in corporate America, that that reached new highs or I would say new lows if you ask me. But it did happen, and it was and to think it happened overnight, you'd be wrong.

It was.

It was.

Was it good for the bottom line? Like, like, what what was the impact to you know, to uh for companies for the bottom line with US, I can't imagine this was good for business, especially.

Was it good for the bottom line? Like, like, what what was the impact to you know, to uh for companies for the bottom line with US, I can't imagine this was good for business, especially.

When you pointed out you know, Budweiser and bud Light.

When you pointed out you know, Budweiser and bud Light.

Well, yes, it turned out to be banned at a point, but for years it didn't matter, you know either either consumers didn't care.

Well, yes, it turned out to be banned at a point, but for years it didn't matter, you know either either consumers didn't care.

I mean, it wasn't good for Target either, by the way.

I mean, it wasn't good for Target either, by the way.

People went nuts when they when they started seeing that one year in twenty twenty one, when they went nuts on the the the whole the Pride celebration. I mean we're not talking about you know, just you know, sort of casual celebrations of of of the LBGDQ plus movement. We're talking about like sort of overt I mean, the market celebrated Bride more than it celebrated the fourth of July. I mean, like in magnitudes, it's a celebrated sexuality, and it celebrated not just a sort of passing way. It's celebrated in terms of you know, children and you know, bringing them into the fold.

People went nuts when they when they started seeing that one year in twenty twenty one, when they went nuts on the the the whole the Pride celebration. I mean we're not talking about you know, just you know, sort of casual celebrations of of of the LBGDQ plus movement. We're talking about like sort of overt I mean, the market celebrated Bride more than it celebrated the fourth of July. I mean, like in magnitudes, it's a celebrated sexuality, and it celebrated not just a sort of passing way. It's celebrated in terms of you know, children and you know, bringing them into the fold.

I mean it was really quite remarkable.

I mean it was really quite remarkable.

You know, if you if you and I did a lot of research on this, so I mean like you got to ask yourself. So that caused the backlash. So before that, I think they believe that it didn't matter. Apple could be. Disney was a big company. It could it made a lot of money. People kept going to its theme parks, even if they were, you know, greeted by a transgender under you know guy a guy with a wig and a beard telling their kids hello. I mean, it didn't matter that there was you know, trans or drag queen bedtime stories, you know, you know, being around the country, it would get we get coverage. It didn't matter that Apple was among the most you know, woke companies in the world, because everybody wanted an iPhone.

You know, if you if you and I did a lot of research on this, so I mean like you got to ask yourself. So that caused the backlash. So before that, I think they believe that it didn't matter. Apple could be. Disney was a big company. It could it made a lot of money. People kept going to its theme parks, even if they were, you know, greeted by a transgender under you know guy a guy with a wig and a beard telling their kids hello. I mean, it didn't matter that there was you know, trans or drag queen bedtime stories, you know, you know, being around the country, it would get we get coverage. It didn't matter that Apple was among the most you know, woke companies in the world, because everybody wanted an iPhone.

So for a time, it really didn't matter. And then all of a sudden it did.

So for a time, it really didn't matter. And then all of a sudden it did.

And I think the country, the consumer, the average American, which all these companies have to appeal to, even Jamie Diamond, you know, it's a it's you know, they revolted. And it was interesting. I had a you know, I interviewed Jamie Dimond's people. I interviewed Jamie about this too. You know, they were they were arguing, like, okay, were this is before they did they started tweaking their de I policy. They they were a whole hog into de I. You know, that is all over their website. And I would say this is illegal. I would tell the PR people, and you know, why would you say this is good? Oh, Charlie, we make so much money. You know it must be good because we make Okay, so you're saying you make a lot of money, that's good. Do you realize that you're a too big to fail bank who's borrowing rates are subsidized by the American taxpayer. And that's how you make money. You're a bank that which Amy Diamond runs, and he runs it well. But literally is it just needs to be managed. Every now and then there's a trader who goes off the deep end and you know, loses three hundred million dollars or whatever, three hundred billions maybe, But when it really comes down there, their business is pretty simple. You take in money, you pay someone one percent, you lend out at three and that's it. And by the way, when you need because your company is too big to fail, which all the big banks are, the federal government is your implicit backstop. You can borrow at very favorable rates. That's no business gets really gets that in America. Apple doesn't get that, just so you know, And so I would say, you know, I would tell him it's not brilliant, it's it's like it's luck. And you know, and at some point people are going to stop banking with you. If you're just gonna, if you're just gonna, you know, virtue signal at it every tune. And if you notice they stopped doing that, you don't see you taking a knee anymore at a band Bank branch, which he did during twenty twenty.