I was at a conference recently and I heard my next guest speak and I thought to myself, let's get him on the show. He was discussing Corporate America's embrace of diversity, equity and inclusion. But he was saying things I hadn't heard before, and it was just different angles that I'm used to hearing. And that's what I try to do on this podcast, is just to get different angles, to get different guests, to keep things interesting, but also just so that we can all continue learning together. But what he was talking about is Obama's role former Price in Obama's role in pushing these companies to the left, how his people infiltrated Corporate America and turned them woke.

I was at a conference recently and I heard my next guest speak and I thought to myself, let's get him on the show. He was discussing Corporate America's embrace of diversity, equity and inclusion. But he was saying things I hadn't heard before, and it was just different angles that I'm used to hearing. And that's what I try to do on this podcast, is just to get different angles, to get different guests, to keep things interesting, but also just so that we can all continue learning together. But what he was talking about is Obama's role former Price in Obama's role in pushing these companies to the left, how his people infiltrated Corporate America and turned them woke.

So we'll discuss that.

So we'll discuss that.

We'll discuss what happened, and we'll also discuss the latest course correction now that President Trump and his administration all these DEI executive orders and you know, pushing America's companies back to the right. So we'll discuss that course correction. How long will it last? What do we need to know? So stay tuned for oh Skinner. He's the executive director of Alliance for Consumers. He also previously worked for the Arizona attorney General. He was the state's lead council in the United States Supreme Court. So stay tuned for O which Skinner well, O aged, it's great to have you on the show. I recently met you, and you know, we're having discussions about some of this DEI stuff, and so I was like, I got to get them on my podcast. So I appreciate you making the time, and I look forward to this conversation.

We'll discuss what happened, and we'll also discuss the latest course correction now that President Trump and his administration all these DEI executive orders and you know, pushing America's companies back to the right. So we'll discuss that course correction. How long will it last? What do we need to know? So stay tuned for oh Skinner. He's the executive director of Alliance for Consumers. He also previously worked for the Arizona attorney General. He was the state's lead council in the United States Supreme Court. So stay tuned for O which Skinner well, O aged, it's great to have you on the show. I recently met you, and you know, we're having discussions about some of this DEI stuff, and so I was like, I got to get them on my podcast. So I appreciate you making the time, and I look forward to this conversation.

This is gonna be fun.

This is gonna be fun.

It will be fun.

It will be fun.

Okay, So let's start with because you you said something which I hadn't really given much thought about prior to you saying it.

Okay, So let's start with because you you said something which I hadn't really given much thought about prior to you saying it.

But explain walk us through the role that.

But explain walk us through the role that.

The Obama administration and Obama world played in pushing these companies to woke and pushing these companies towards DEI.

The Obama administration and Obama world played in pushing these companies to woke and pushing these companies towards DEI.

Yeah. I mean, I think what's really important to understand about corporate America at a basic level is that they just respond to incentives and pressures, especially pressures, and you know, you have to go back in time to what feels like forever ago. But you know, Obama wins, he's the president. He starts putting all this pressure on corporate America to do diversity, to do all these things that we now know as is DEI. And then he gets re elected and so especially in his second term, you have all of this exodus of Obama era officials and lawyers and agency heads, and they're all going into corporate America. Right. Like one of the things that's easy to forget is that the Obama people all got jobs at places like Google or you know, Tony West is like a great example. He ended up going to Uber and being the head of government affairs, and it's like you can literally follow the trajectory of like DEEI in America. One of my friends says, by following this guy Tony West. And so they all leave to go to corporate America. And they're busy telling corporate America that the way to be safe from the Obama administration is to just get ahead of them. Do a little bit more diversity, do a little bit more esg, do a little bit more, a little bit more, you stay one step ahead of the government, and then the government doesn't smack you, doesn't find you, doesn't sue you, and then we all forget that. Like all of those smart people thought that Hillary Clinton was going to be president, and so as the second term of Obama is ending. They're not pulling back into neutral, They're not getting worried about maybe having a direction shift in Washington. They're like doubling and tripling down. They're hiring as many officials as they possibly can from the Obama team and people they think are going to be favorable from the Clinton world. They're just like really digging in and then Trump wins. Right. So the easy thing to understands you look at the world now is that all of the seeds for what we see in corporate America were driven by this belief from corporate America that the way to make the pressure stop from Washington was to hire the Obama people, who then, of course, as you know, they just import all of what they were going to do in the government. But now they have control over the companies, right, so they're just pushing the companies to do everything that they would have done had they still been in government. Right. So that's I think really to understand where it came from, you have to understand this like arc of what they thought was going to be twelve years of you know, strong push from Washington with democratic presidents to do all of what we now know of Asda.

Yeah. I mean, I think what's really important to understand about corporate America at a basic level is that they just respond to incentives and pressures, especially pressures, and you know, you have to go back in time to what feels like forever ago. But you know, Obama wins, he's the president. He starts putting all this pressure on corporate America to do diversity, to do all these things that we now know as is DEI. And then he gets re elected and so especially in his second term, you have all of this exodus of Obama era officials and lawyers and agency heads, and they're all going into corporate America. Right. Like one of the things that's easy to forget is that the Obama people all got jobs at places like Google or you know, Tony West is like a great example. He ended up going to Uber and being the head of government affairs, and it's like you can literally follow the trajectory of like DEEI in America. One of my friends says, by following this guy Tony West. And so they all leave to go to corporate America. And they're busy telling corporate America that the way to be safe from the Obama administration is to just get ahead of them. Do a little bit more diversity, do a little bit more esg, do a little bit more, a little bit more, you stay one step ahead of the government, and then the government doesn't smack you, doesn't find you, doesn't sue you, and then we all forget that. Like all of those smart people thought that Hillary Clinton was going to be president, and so as the second term of Obama is ending. They're not pulling back into neutral, They're not getting worried about maybe having a direction shift in Washington. They're like doubling and tripling down. They're hiring as many officials as they possibly can from the Obama team and people they think are going to be favorable from the Clinton world. They're just like really digging in and then Trump wins. Right. So the easy thing to understands you look at the world now is that all of the seeds for what we see in corporate America were driven by this belief from corporate America that the way to make the pressure stop from Washington was to hire the Obama people, who then, of course, as you know, they just import all of what they were going to do in the government. But now they have control over the companies, right, so they're just pushing the companies to do everything that they would have done had they still been in government. Right. So that's I think really to understand where it came from, you have to understand this like arc of what they thought was going to be twelve years of you know, strong push from Washington with democratic presidents to do all of what we now know of Asda.

Well, and what's interesting is, you know, we know that Obama made race a you know, obviously being the first black president, but really just a lot of race initiatives and really pushing sort of that racial division in the country. I mean, the irony is when he left, I think it was even CNN said that, you know, fifty four percent of Americans believed that race relations had gotten worse under his time, so obviously didn't you know, I guess he did to do an effective job driving people apart. Was that just for political reasons or what do you think the strategy for Obama was with all of that?

Well, and what's interesting is, you know, we know that Obama made race a you know, obviously being the first black president, but really just a lot of race initiatives and really pushing sort of that racial division in the country. I mean, the irony is when he left, I think it was even CNN said that, you know, fifty four percent of Americans believed that race relations had gotten worse under his time, so obviously didn't you know, I guess he did to do an effective job driving people apart. Was that just for political reasons or what do you think the strategy for Obama was with all of that?

You know, that's hard. I always people ask me sometimes whether the government officials are doing something for political reasons or for you know, for their own ultras degreesment. I think it's always a mix of things. You know, It's hard when you are pushing this narrative for such a long time on the left about where so many of their policies are are hinged on like social justice, racial justice, all these things, right, like, they hang so many of their policies on those things, which you know, it's the easy answer is to say, once you start selling something for certain reasons, you can't just sell half the package. If you're telling people that environmental justice is so important because minority communities are hardest hit. If you're telling people that you need to have different tax policies, different spending policies, all in the name of racial or environmental or all these other things, right, it's also really hard to then try and be like, but we shouldn't be promoting people in corporate America, and we should like, once you've sold part of the package, the rest of the ideas follow if that makes sense, even if they weren't like the reason that you were selling the idea, they all follow through, right, It all like it continues. People don't. People don't suspend their disbelief and think that we should be very race conscious in some settings but then not in other settings. And so when the left start selling racial you know, justice as a reason to do countless things, it follows through. And I think, if you're being honest, a lot of the like uh, George Floyd's stuff ended up being like the logical conclusion of something that you can see. Right. Obama would talk all the time about this. You've seen this when he's given speeches and like lectured the left about like identity politics and being crazy leftists, right. I think a lot of that is he knew that he was pushing this DEI stuff. And then the logical end point is these marches in the street being like defund the police, that they're racist, and it's like the people who set off like they like release the virus are sitting there thinking, whoa we liked like racial justice to like explain our tax policy or our giveaway policy or a spending policy, like we didn't mean like get rid of the police. And people are like, well, you told us that like racial disparities mean racism, and so like the police are doing things that are racially disparate, so therefore they're racist, so we should get rid of them. You could just see the people be like, oh my god, it escaped containment. We didn't mean that. I think that's probably the right way to think about it.

You know, that's hard. I always people ask me sometimes whether the government officials are doing something for political reasons or for you know, for their own ultras degreesment. I think it's always a mix of things. You know, It's hard when you are pushing this narrative for such a long time on the left about where so many of their policies are are hinged on like social justice, racial justice, all these things, right, like, they hang so many of their policies on those things, which you know, it's the easy answer is to say, once you start selling something for certain reasons, you can't just sell half the package. If you're telling people that environmental justice is so important because minority communities are hardest hit. If you're telling people that you need to have different tax policies, different spending policies, all in the name of racial or environmental or all these other things, right, it's also really hard to then try and be like, but we shouldn't be promoting people in corporate America, and we should like, once you've sold part of the package, the rest of the ideas follow if that makes sense, even if they weren't like the reason that you were selling the idea, they all follow through, right, It all like it continues. People don't. People don't suspend their disbelief and think that we should be very race conscious in some settings but then not in other settings. And so when the left start selling racial you know, justice as a reason to do countless things, it follows through. And I think, if you're being honest, a lot of the like uh, George Floyd's stuff ended up being like the logical conclusion of something that you can see. Right. Obama would talk all the time about this. You've seen this when he's given speeches and like lectured the left about like identity politics and being crazy leftists, right. I think a lot of that is he knew that he was pushing this DEI stuff. And then the logical end point is these marches in the street being like defund the police, that they're racist, and it's like the people who set off like they like release the virus are sitting there thinking, whoa we liked like racial justice to like explain our tax policy or our giveaway policy or a spending policy, like we didn't mean like get rid of the police. And people are like, well, you told us that like racial disparities mean racism, and so like the police are doing things that are racially disparate, so therefore they're racist, so we should get rid of them. You could just see the people be like, oh my god, it escaped containment. We didn't mean that. I think that's probably the right way to think about it.

And also in thinking about it, I mean it's kind of a straight smart strategy because if you're sort of pressuring these companies to build out their DEI department, I mean most of the people who are going to be in those roles, I mean that's the left, the left wing, you know, way of thinking, so they're going to.

And also in thinking about it, I mean it's kind of a straight smart strategy because if you're sort of pressuring these companies to build out their DEI department, I mean most of the people who are going to be in those roles, I mean that's the left, the left wing, you know, way of thinking, so they're going to.

Be filled with progressives and leftists. So it's it's it's actually a.

Be filled with progressives and leftists. So it's it's it's actually a.

Smart way to get a foothold with some of these companies, right.

Smart way to get a foothold with some of these companies, right.

So yeah, yeah, I mean it's like it's like it's like what you see with some of the gender stuff now, where people will say, well, we need to have like a gender equity. I mean, we need to have a transgender department at this university. Well, all you're doing is when you start a whole new apartment and staff it with all your people, you give yourself like more boots on the ground, right, And so you're exactly right. The DEI department starts small, and then they grow, and then they grow, and then they grow, and then one of those people becomes the CEO of the company and now all of a sudden, like you've gotten control of a place.

So yeah, yeah, I mean it's like it's like it's like what you see with some of the gender stuff now, where people will say, well, we need to have like a gender equity. I mean, we need to have a transgender department at this university. Well, all you're doing is when you start a whole new apartment and staff it with all your people, you give yourself like more boots on the ground, right, And so you're exactly right. The DEI department starts small, and then they grow, and then they grow, and then they grow, and then one of those people becomes the CEO of the company and now all of a sudden, like you've gotten control of a place.

How significant was the death of George Floyd, because I mean that really set a lot of things off in the country after his death, from soft on crime policies to you know, the rest of it. So how significant do you think that was in pushing these companies to the left and also, you know, forcing these companies to embrace DEI.

How significant was the death of George Floyd, because I mean that really set a lot of things off in the country after his death, from soft on crime policies to you know, the rest of it. So how significant do you think that was in pushing these companies to the left and also, you know, forcing these companies to embrace DEI.

You know, it's funny. I actually don't know that it had a lot, if anything. I think it probably it was like didn't help them on the DEI front. Like you got to understand that my core belief about companies and why you see like products being taken off store shelves, The thing I care about the most is that they're constantly just negotiating with the pressures that they're under. And so I think, you know, the this goes back to something we were talking about earlier. I do think that that I'll get back to the George Floyd point I promised. But what you saw during the Obama years was also this like negotiation of corporate America between like the burnie crowd that wants to confiscate all of Corporate America and like turn it into like, you know, a government run institution and the social justice crowd that just wants to take thirty percent of the budget of corporate America and turn it into crazy social promotion and stuff, right. And you could see that with the George Floyd protests, where like there's radicals in the streets that are basically like hair down city government, defund the police, and any company that is like not towing the line we're gonna like blast them if you're not taking down your ads, if you're not posting black squares on the internet. Right. And I think in a way that crowd like scale corporate America because they thought they'd cut a deal where if I, like, if I give a huge DEI department, then like the burning crowd won't come for me. Does that make sense?

You know, it's funny. I actually don't know that it had a lot, if anything. I think it probably it was like didn't help them on the DEI front. Like you got to understand that my core belief about companies and why you see like products being taken off store shelves, The thing I care about the most is that they're constantly just negotiating with the pressures that they're under. And so I think, you know, the this goes back to something we were talking about earlier. I do think that that I'll get back to the George Floyd point I promised. But what you saw during the Obama years was also this like negotiation of corporate America between like the burnie crowd that wants to confiscate all of Corporate America and like turn it into like, you know, a government run institution and the social justice crowd that just wants to take thirty percent of the budget of corporate America and turn it into crazy social promotion and stuff, right. And you could see that with the George Floyd protests, where like there's radicals in the streets that are basically like hair down city government, defund the police, and any company that is like not towing the line we're gonna like blast them if you're not taking down your ads, if you're not posting black squares on the internet. Right. And I think in a way that crowd like scale corporate America because they thought they'd cut a deal where if I, like, if I give a huge DEI department, then like the burning crowd won't come for me. Does that make sense?

Yes?

Yes?

And I think that the here's this gets back to our modern day. If corporate America is just responding to pressure, then back then they were importing all the Obama people because they were looking for the pressure to only come from the left under Obama and Clinton. And they're negotiating only between the Obama Tony West. I'm going to work at a company, but talk about diversity and the burning crowd that's like, I'm gonna talk about diversity and take your company from you, right, Like, that's who they were negotiating between. And the right was silent. Right. And so are we surprised that corporate America just starts to like only make products for the left and only higher leftists. Right. What you've seen in the most recent set of years is started with state ags, some private groups and now the Trump administration. Why is corporate America snapping back to the middle. Is now there's like an aggressive pressure from the right to drop your DEI programs, stop doing weird esg stuff, stop banning products, stop trying to ban gas stoves, stop trying to be weirdos, just like be the middle of America, right and bam, all of a sudden, Corporate America sure is talking like they're now in the middle. Why because now there's pressure on the right and there's pressure on the left, and so where does corporate America start to go somewhere in the middle right? Like it's just suddenly, it's like conservatives have finally learned that the only thing corporate America can listen to, if we're being honest, is pressure. Whether it's a boycott or whether it's a lawsuit. They only respond to pressure. And now that there's consistent pressure from the right on these issues, you're seeing corporate America start to at least try to hue back to the middle. And that's a tremendous thing.

And I think that the here's this gets back to our modern day. If corporate America is just responding to pressure, then back then they were importing all the Obama people because they were looking for the pressure to only come from the left under Obama and Clinton. And they're negotiating only between the Obama Tony West. I'm going to work at a company, but talk about diversity and the burning crowd that's like, I'm gonna talk about diversity and take your company from you, right, Like, that's who they were negotiating between. And the right was silent. Right. And so are we surprised that corporate America just starts to like only make products for the left and only higher leftists. Right. What you've seen in the most recent set of years is started with state ags, some private groups and now the Trump administration. Why is corporate America snapping back to the middle. Is now there's like an aggressive pressure from the right to drop your DEI programs, stop doing weird esg stuff, stop banning products, stop trying to ban gas stoves, stop trying to be weirdos, just like be the middle of America, right and bam, all of a sudden, Corporate America sure is talking like they're now in the middle. Why because now there's pressure on the right and there's pressure on the left, and so where does corporate America start to go somewhere in the middle right? Like it's just suddenly, it's like conservatives have finally learned that the only thing corporate America can listen to, if we're being honest, is pressure. Whether it's a boycott or whether it's a lawsuit. They only respond to pressure. And now that there's consistent pressure from the right on these issues, you're seeing corporate America start to at least try to hue back to the middle. And that's a tremendous thing.

Well, you know, we saw some of these sort of you know, I guess you would call them, I guess they're boycotts, but you know pressure campaigns, you know, getting a lot of bad press, and you know a lot of social media activity with things like bud Light and Target and Disney. Why do you think those specific pressure campaigns worked? And then kind of what message do you think that's sent to the rest of corporate America.

Well, you know, we saw some of these sort of you know, I guess you would call them, I guess they're boycotts, but you know pressure campaigns, you know, getting a lot of bad press, and you know a lot of social media activity with things like bud Light and Target and Disney. Why do you think those specific pressure campaigns worked? And then kind of what message do you think that's sent to the rest of corporate America.

I think they worked because it was the first time that corporate America was viewing a lot of the DEI in particular stuff as not free. But you got to understand that like the sales paid. Like I can't explain enough to you that. Like Eric Holder, you know, he was the head of he was Attorney General under Obama. He has this business where he goes to companies in the last few years and he charges them like fifteen hundred dollars an hour. It's probably more like two thousand dollars an hour now because of you know, how the world works, telling him about how there's all these benefits to building out diversity and all these programs, and it was working. Biden, He's making all this money. He goes to a company tells him to be more woke than he cashes a huge check. Well, nowadays we call it getting holdered because then they get sued by a state or now they're going to get sued by by the Department of Justice, and then he's going to come back in and be like, hey, I can defend you. I can make more money. Right, there's this whole industry of people telling them do the woke thing. It's an unalloyed good. You'll get all this positive praise from the Washington Post and the New York Times. You'll be lauded, you'll get to be go to the high five people at your country club, and it won't cost you anything. So just keep doing it right and then bam, bud light happens. You get Target, you get some of these other things. And so the first time these official these people in these companies who aren't radicals are like, wait, I did that thing. You said it was going to be all upside, no downside, but now I'm like getting this massive hit to my bottom line. I should have never done it in the first place. Didn't get me anything. This is dumb. And so I think they worked because they showed actual, like belief from most people that they just want people to make products for them and not just like lecture at them. So I mean, I mean the various ones that worked were where the core demographic of the company just didn't match the slot that was being thrown at them by the heads of the offices right like you know, and so you saw people get really really mad because something totally out of whack was happening. And Corporate America responded because it was the first time they had ever felt pain as a result of something that they were told was like a freebie.

I think they worked because it was the first time that corporate America was viewing a lot of the DEI in particular stuff as not free. But you got to understand that like the sales paid. Like I can't explain enough to you that. Like Eric Holder, you know, he was the head of he was Attorney General under Obama. He has this business where he goes to companies in the last few years and he charges them like fifteen hundred dollars an hour. It's probably more like two thousand dollars an hour now because of you know, how the world works, telling him about how there's all these benefits to building out diversity and all these programs, and it was working. Biden, He's making all this money. He goes to a company tells him to be more woke than he cashes a huge check. Well, nowadays we call it getting holdered because then they get sued by a state or now they're going to get sued by by the Department of Justice, and then he's going to come back in and be like, hey, I can defend you. I can make more money. Right, there's this whole industry of people telling them do the woke thing. It's an unalloyed good. You'll get all this positive praise from the Washington Post and the New York Times. You'll be lauded, you'll get to be go to the high five people at your country club, and it won't cost you anything. So just keep doing it right and then bam, bud light happens. You get Target, you get some of these other things. And so the first time these official these people in these companies who aren't radicals are like, wait, I did that thing. You said it was going to be all upside, no downside, but now I'm like getting this massive hit to my bottom line. I should have never done it in the first place. Didn't get me anything. This is dumb. And so I think they worked because they showed actual, like belief from most people that they just want people to make products for them and not just like lecture at them. So I mean, I mean the various ones that worked were where the core demographic of the company just didn't match the slot that was being thrown at them by the heads of the offices right like you know, and so you saw people get really really mad because something totally out of whack was happening. And Corporate America responded because it was the first time they had ever felt pain as a result of something that they were told was like a freebie.

We've got more with Oage Skinner.

We've got more with Oage Skinner.

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What percentage of.

What percentage of.

These companies do you think where like see CEO actually believes these things versus feeling like they were sort of being held hostage by sort of employees and like the movement so to speak.

These companies do you think where like see CEO actually believes these things versus feeling like they were sort of being held hostage by sort of employees and like the movement so to speak.

Yeah, Yeah. The line I keep being told by lots of different people, especially when I complained to them about like why they're removing products from store shelves, is that about seventy percent of companies just want to go along and get along, and so they'll they'll they'll do what the left wants when they are left in charge to a certain degree, and they'll do it the right ones, but they're not like committed right. And then I've heard that like thirty percent of companies are like either wholly taken over by the DEI clan or the CEO believes it right, Like, I don't know if you guys saw this. Like Robbie Starbuck has done just a huge amount. Yeah, and when he talks about how like Harley Davidson was one that he that was really important to him because the customer base was conservative, and the CEO is like this, like euro you know, like you' a weirdo who was like trying to convince everybody that like climate change was going to end the world and that the only way Harley Davidson could survive is by stopping selling the product that everybody bought, and instead they would just make like electric bikes. That's that's an example of like the CEO is a believer, he's in the thirty percent. Right. There's other companies that have flipped under pressure from states to Robbie Starbuck, where like they kind of like you could just tell that they were just happy that somebody finally gave them an excuse to tell their DEI department to shove off, right, that somebody gave them the right to go down to their HR department and say like they reed, yeah, yeah, yeah, So the comment that so one of the state ags who was pushing back in this. He'll often refer to it as like, I'm not anti business. I think that the pressure I bring is, you know, let the pressure set them free. Right, Like when I bring pressure on a company, it allows them to just make the choices that they know are write for their customers, freed from the belief that they might be called out for being a bigot or a racist or all of the things that you and I have seen people get called. He's like, I just want them to be free to just make business choices, right, and surprise, like, business choices means that they're just like going to keep guestos, that they're going to still sell gas grills, that they're going to like stop doing weird stuff and start just like meeting their customers, right, And so he always refers to as like the pressure like I'm gonna the pressure will set them free. Right. It's not me being negative on corporate America. It's me wanting corporate America to be better. So take us.

Yeah, Yeah. The line I keep being told by lots of different people, especially when I complained to them about like why they're removing products from store shelves, is that about seventy percent of companies just want to go along and get along, and so they'll they'll they'll do what the left wants when they are left in charge to a certain degree, and they'll do it the right ones, but they're not like committed right. And then I've heard that like thirty percent of companies are like either wholly taken over by the DEI clan or the CEO believes it right, Like, I don't know if you guys saw this. Like Robbie Starbuck has done just a huge amount. Yeah, and when he talks about how like Harley Davidson was one that he that was really important to him because the customer base was conservative, and the CEO is like this, like euro you know, like you' a weirdo who was like trying to convince everybody that like climate change was going to end the world and that the only way Harley Davidson could survive is by stopping selling the product that everybody bought, and instead they would just make like electric bikes. That's that's an example of like the CEO is a believer, he's in the thirty percent. Right. There's other companies that have flipped under pressure from states to Robbie Starbuck, where like they kind of like you could just tell that they were just happy that somebody finally gave them an excuse to tell their DEI department to shove off, right, that somebody gave them the right to go down to their HR department and say like they reed, yeah, yeah, yeah, So the comment that so one of the state ags who was pushing back in this. He'll often refer to it as like, I'm not anti business. I think that the pressure I bring is, you know, let the pressure set them free. Right, Like when I bring pressure on a company, it allows them to just make the choices that they know are write for their customers, freed from the belief that they might be called out for being a bigot or a racist or all of the things that you and I have seen people get called. He's like, I just want them to be free to just make business choices, right, and surprise, like, business choices means that they're just like going to keep guestos, that they're going to still sell gas grills, that they're going to like stop doing weird stuff and start just like meeting their customers, right, And so he always refers to as like the pressure like I'm gonna the pressure will set them free. Right. It's not me being negative on corporate America. It's me wanting corporate America to be better. So take us.

Through, as the executive director of Alliance for Consumers, take us through.

Through, as the executive director of Alliance for Consumers, take us through.

I guess some of the.

I guess some of the.

Craziest examples you've seen of companies just pushing like ridiculous, woke things that even you've been like whoa, Okay, that's you know that's out there.

Craziest examples you've seen of companies just pushing like ridiculous, woke things that even you've been like whoa, Okay, that's you know that's out there.

Well, you know it's funny. Is a lot of the A lot of it just I mean you've seen I would say the craziest ones are the things that you've seen, whether it's you know, bud Light deciding that notwithstanding in their core demographic, they're going to become like the LGBTQ hotbed of America, right, or it's places like you know or like what Target did where you're just like, you know, they should know the demographic their shops at their stores and that they're not interested in seeing you know, trans kids swimsuits. But what I think is actually like more interesting is the craziness of the government because the government stuff is like what you're now seeing is governments trying to push companies pass where the companies even want to go. And so you've seen this, like I don't know if you've seen this in California now, like you can't buy gas lawnmowers anymore. Have you seen this?

Well, you know it's funny. Is a lot of the A lot of it just I mean you've seen I would say the craziest ones are the things that you've seen, whether it's you know, bud Light deciding that notwithstanding in their core demographic, they're going to become like the LGBTQ hotbed of America, right, or it's places like you know or like what Target did where you're just like, you know, they should know the demographic their shops at their stores and that they're not interested in seeing you know, trans kids swimsuits. But what I think is actually like more interesting is the craziness of the government because the government stuff is like what you're now seeing is governments trying to push companies pass where the companies even want to go. And so you've seen this, like I don't know if you've seen this in California now, like you can't buy gas lawnmowers anymore. Have you seen this?

I don't think I actually have.

I don't think I actually have.

Oh see, this is beautiful, like when you live in like real America, there is Florida. We're free there, you know, yeah, exactly right, right, So you know I live in Arizona and that's close to California. So like we catch the you know, we catch the blowback that comes out of there. You know, they're busy doing things like banning gas powered lawnmowers and leaf flowers in the name of climate change, right, And so now you see these videos on the Internet of people walking through like a home depot and the cheapest thing they can buy as like a like a normal like riding lawnmar that used to cost like let's just say a thousand dollars is now like a four thousand dollars thing that depending upon where you live, you might have to charge it in the middle of mowing your lawn, right, all in the name of like ESG and you're just sitting there being like you're literally making everybody's lives worse. It costs more and does a worse job. Right. It's like the theme that you see all the time, whether it's messing with your dishwasher, messing with your refrigerator. What's the outcome? The government officials are making it cost more and do a worst job, cost more and do a worse job. And what I think is the part that is like it won't mean as much to your listeners, but it means a lot to me. Is twenty years ago when the government officials would do this junk companies and people would fight it. Where I see the DEI and the ESG stuff really doing this like dirty dangerous thing is it's making companies roll over and agree to remove products and agree to do stuff in the name of the climate or anti racism or any of these other silly things. And so that leaves like a group like mine to actually yell about how this makes people's lives worse. You used to be able to rely on somebody at a company to say, well, I still want to be able to sell something to a person, but now they've been so scared by the Left that they just agree. I mean. Another one that I'll say is just bonkers and will make everybody's life terrible is California has now passed this rule that says, if you want to operate trucks in California, you have to make your entire fleet zero mission trucks. What is a zero mission like freight truck. It means that you're supposed to have, like a truck, like an eighteen wheeler that hauls stuff all across America, be battery powered, right, I don't know if you. I mean, I grew up in the middle of America. These trucks are limited by how much they weigh, and the battery is weigh a ton, which now means that the truck's in can like half as much and have to charge it all the time. But California is busy trying to make it so that you can only have those trucks if you drive anywhere in California. Your truck's in Nebraska and Iowa also have to be zero mission long haul trucks, and the trucking companies agreed to it. They like wrote this special agreement. You're lacking that they wrote this special agreement with the Biden administration saying, even if your rule is struck down in court, we agree to implement it anyway in the name of like climate justice. Right. And so what you've got is like everyone like the stuff at your store comes on these trucks, Like now it's going to get more expensive, it's going to take longer to get there. It's more expensive and does a less good job, and the companies were like, sounds good. Right. So that's the stuff that just like blows my mind is when these officials look like they're just trying to make your life worse. You know, I don't know. Did you see did you see all the articles they're like right at the tail end of the Biden administration about how good life could be with that air conditioning? Did you see this?

Oh see, this is beautiful, like when you live in like real America, there is Florida. We're free there, you know, yeah, exactly right, right, So you know I live in Arizona and that's close to California. So like we catch the you know, we catch the blowback that comes out of there. You know, they're busy doing things like banning gas powered lawnmowers and leaf flowers in the name of climate change, right, And so now you see these videos on the Internet of people walking through like a home depot and the cheapest thing they can buy as like a like a normal like riding lawnmar that used to cost like let's just say a thousand dollars is now like a four thousand dollars thing that depending upon where you live, you might have to charge it in the middle of mowing your lawn, right, all in the name of like ESG and you're just sitting there being like you're literally making everybody's lives worse. It costs more and does a worse job. Right. It's like the theme that you see all the time, whether it's messing with your dishwasher, messing with your refrigerator. What's the outcome? The government officials are making it cost more and do a worst job, cost more and do a worse job. And what I think is the part that is like it won't mean as much to your listeners, but it means a lot to me. Is twenty years ago when the government officials would do this junk companies and people would fight it. Where I see the DEI and the ESG stuff really doing this like dirty dangerous thing is it's making companies roll over and agree to remove products and agree to do stuff in the name of the climate or anti racism or any of these other silly things. And so that leaves like a group like mine to actually yell about how this makes people's lives worse. You used to be able to rely on somebody at a company to say, well, I still want to be able to sell something to a person, but now they've been so scared by the Left that they just agree. I mean. Another one that I'll say is just bonkers and will make everybody's life terrible is California has now passed this rule that says, if you want to operate trucks in California, you have to make your entire fleet zero mission trucks. What is a zero mission like freight truck. It means that you're supposed to have, like a truck, like an eighteen wheeler that hauls stuff all across America, be battery powered, right, I don't know if you. I mean, I grew up in the middle of America. These trucks are limited by how much they weigh, and the battery is weigh a ton, which now means that the truck's in can like half as much and have to charge it all the time. But California is busy trying to make it so that you can only have those trucks if you drive anywhere in California. Your truck's in Nebraska and Iowa also have to be zero mission long haul trucks, and the trucking companies agreed to it. They like wrote this special agreement. You're lacking that they wrote this special agreement with the Biden administration saying, even if your rule is struck down in court, we agree to implement it anyway in the name of like climate justice. Right. And so what you've got is like everyone like the stuff at your store comes on these trucks, Like now it's going to get more expensive, it's going to take longer to get there. It's more expensive and does a less good job, and the companies were like, sounds good. Right. So that's the stuff that just like blows my mind is when these officials look like they're just trying to make your life worse. You know, I don't know. Did you see did you see all the articles they're like right at the tail end of the Biden administration about how good life could be with that air conditioning? Did you see this?

Yes, which I fundamentally just I of course, yeah. I'm you know, I'm the type of.

Yes, which I fundamentally just I of course, yeah. I'm you know, I'm the type of.

Person who like lives in Florida and my permit's freezing so I can sleep with a comforter, Like yeah, great, great, right, I'm like a bad I'm one of the worst offenders.

Person who like lives in Florida and my permit's freezing so I can sleep with a comforter, Like yeah, great, great, right, I'm like a bad I'm one of the worst offenders.

We love in America finds. I know. But when you're in the media, you know this When when you see the first article that says how great it is to live with that air conditioning, you're like, that's weird. When you see the second one, you're like, wait a second. When you see the third, fourth, fifth, and they talk about how like the fight for climate change includes getting rid of things like air conditioners, all of a sudden, you have this moment where you're like, oh my god, the reason you officials are raising the price of air conditioners or banning. They banned the HFCs that go into a lot of these air conditioners, and I don't know, you probably haven't experienced this. Nowadays, a lot of air conditioning companies won't repair your air conditioner. That just make you buy a whole new system because they can't get the replacement chemicals. And so when something leaks, you now have to buy like a new thirty thousand dollars air conditioning system, depending upon where you live. And all of a sudden, you have this moment you're like, oh my god, that's not like a negative side effect from these officials perspective. You kind of want air conditioning to be unreachable? Why do they want us.

We love in America finds. I know. But when you're in the media, you know this When when you see the first article that says how great it is to live with that air conditioning, you're like, that's weird. When you see the second one, you're like, wait a second. When you see the third, fourth, fifth, and they talk about how like the fight for climate change includes getting rid of things like air conditioners, all of a sudden, you have this moment where you're like, oh my god, the reason you officials are raising the price of air conditioners or banning. They banned the HFCs that go into a lot of these air conditioners, and I don't know, you probably haven't experienced this. Nowadays, a lot of air conditioning companies won't repair your air conditioner. That just make you buy a whole new system because they can't get the replacement chemicals. And so when something leaks, you now have to buy like a new thirty thousand dollars air conditioning system, depending upon where you live. And all of a sudden, you have this moment you're like, oh my god, that's not like a negative side effect from these officials perspective. You kind of want air conditioning to be unreachable? Why do they want us.

To live like that?

To live like that?

Though?

Though?

Because you know, I remember, like even I can't remember the exact headlines, but they were also basically like you know, breadlines are great.

Because you know, I remember, like even I can't remember the exact headlines, but they were also basically like you know, breadlines are great.

You know what I mean.

You know what I mean.

It's like yeah, yeah, no exactly, but like why do.

It's like yeah, yeah, no exactly, but like why do.

They want us to What's what's behind that? Like, why do they want us to live like this is?

They want us to What's what's behind that? Like, why do they want us to live like this is?

Okay? Well, now we's explain the y y, the why I'm home. So you may you may have heard this phrase net zero. I mean, I'm sure you've heard that, right people zero? Okay, net zero means net zero by twenty thirty or twenty fifty, depending on who you're talking to. Okay, it actually means that you have to hit at zero as defined by the UN like EIA, like Energy Group, right, they have charts in order to hit net zero that means net zero new carbon emissions. They literally will say, Okay, well, in order to hit at zero, that means you're allowed to have x percent of your emissions come from this, and this and this. It literally means that you have to get rid of all of the natural gas powered fired power plants in America. All the gas stations have to go away, Your ships in your harbors, and the cranes, they all have to become electric. The semitrucks electric in order to hit and at zero, like, they have math that they have to solve for. And so when you buy this idea that the world will end unless we go net zero by twenty thirty, once you accept that, you have to get people to give up air conditioning, you have to get people to give up the gas powered cars. You have to get people to make all of these changes and probably get rid of things like dishwashers, right, get rid of things like a like a refrigerator that is too big, right from the last perspective, because otherwise your math doesn't math. As one of my friends says, like, you just can't get there.

Okay? Well, now we's explain the y y, the why I'm home. So you may you may have heard this phrase net zero. I mean, I'm sure you've heard that, right people zero? Okay, net zero means net zero by twenty thirty or twenty fifty, depending on who you're talking to. Okay, it actually means that you have to hit at zero as defined by the UN like EIA, like Energy Group, right, they have charts in order to hit net zero that means net zero new carbon emissions. They literally will say, Okay, well, in order to hit at zero, that means you're allowed to have x percent of your emissions come from this, and this and this. It literally means that you have to get rid of all of the natural gas powered fired power plants in America. All the gas stations have to go away, Your ships in your harbors, and the cranes, they all have to become electric. The semitrucks electric in order to hit and at zero, like, they have math that they have to solve for. And so when you buy this idea that the world will end unless we go net zero by twenty thirty, once you accept that, you have to get people to give up air conditioning, you have to get people to give up the gas powered cars. You have to get people to make all of these changes and probably get rid of things like dishwashers, right, get rid of things like a like a refrigerator that is too big, right from the last perspective, because otherwise your math doesn't math. As one of my friends says, like, you just can't get there.

And so when they know we're never going to get there though, see, this.

And so when they know we're never going to get there though, see, this.

Is where this is where you and I can have that discussion of maybe some chunk of them are just burnie people who think that like government needs to control all of this stuff. And so if you can, like you know, there's that crowd and this is in my mind, right, Okay, so you and I kind of share that mind, but there's like a whole nother crowd that like they've been told they grow up in California, they've been told in school that the climate change. Like I had somebody at my house the other day who said that they were terrified of climate change. Number one issue climate change? Right?

Is where this is where you and I can have that discussion of maybe some chunk of them are just burnie people who think that like government needs to control all of this stuff. And so if you can, like you know, there's that crowd and this is in my mind, right, Okay, so you and I kind of share that mind, but there's like a whole nother crowd that like they've been told they grow up in California, they've been told in school that the climate change. Like I had somebody at my house the other day who said that they were terrified of climate change. Number one issue climate change? Right?

Did you get them out?

Did you get them out?

And look, my immediate reaction was, what are using number? What are you doing about climate change? And the number one thing they're doing about climate change is composting, So like we clearly have an issue where like the thing they're doing doesn't have anything to do with the thing that like, the life's got some problems, okay, But at the end of the day, there is a cohort of people who like they've been told that the world's ending, that they have to do X to make the world not end, and so they're going to buy damn it, do X, right. But I do think that a lot of this does stem from like government control. And you know, if you tell people that they can't use too much. I mean, look, we made a video called twenty thirty and it's all about what it will be like in California and net zero world. And you see that the government like meters how much electricity you can use, you have to use only so much hot water because you basically are allowed an allotment of like carbon emissions on a given day. And so if your kid takes a hot shower, you can't take a hot shower. Your lights turn off at the end of your day, your electric car you can't have a fan at the office, so the company can hit their net zero targets, right, like it just it is to your mind and my mind, nothing gives the government more ability to control every aspect of your life than telling you exactly how much electricity and power you're allowed to use. You ask somebody who comes from Venezuela and you tell them what the ESG people are pushing, and their immediate reaction is that's how they control your life, because that's what they did in Venezuela. Right. There's another component of people that I think is just like, well, this is how I'm gonna sell a climb change and you and I are like, you're not going to actually do that, and they're like, no, no, but we need to try. So I don't know, it's a mix.

And look, my immediate reaction was, what are using number? What are you doing about climate change? And the number one thing they're doing about climate change is composting, So like we clearly have an issue where like the thing they're doing doesn't have anything to do with the thing that like, the life's got some problems, okay, But at the end of the day, there is a cohort of people who like they've been told that the world's ending, that they have to do X to make the world not end, and so they're going to buy damn it, do X, right. But I do think that a lot of this does stem from like government control. And you know, if you tell people that they can't use too much. I mean, look, we made a video called twenty thirty and it's all about what it will be like in California and net zero world. And you see that the government like meters how much electricity you can use, you have to use only so much hot water because you basically are allowed an allotment of like carbon emissions on a given day. And so if your kid takes a hot shower, you can't take a hot shower. Your lights turn off at the end of your day, your electric car you can't have a fan at the office, so the company can hit their net zero targets, right, like it just it is to your mind and my mind, nothing gives the government more ability to control every aspect of your life than telling you exactly how much electricity and power you're allowed to use. You ask somebody who comes from Venezuela and you tell them what the ESG people are pushing, and their immediate reaction is that's how they control your life, because that's what they did in Venezuela. Right. There's another component of people that I think is just like, well, this is how I'm gonna sell a climb change and you and I are like, you're not going to actually do that, and they're like, no, no, but we need to try. So I don't know, it's a mix.

Yeah, I'm with you because remember even AOC's former chief of staff, I can't remember his name, but he basically said that the Green New Deal was a how do you control the entire economy type of thing, right, I mean.

Yeah, I'm with you because remember even AOC's former chief of staff, I can't remember his name, but he basically said that the Green New Deal was a how do you control the entire economy type of thing, right, I mean.

Okay, So, like you know, it's like we're talking just the two of us, nobody else is listening, you know. I think that explains a lot of this, right, Like, but I do think you have these people who aren't thinking about the logical endpoint, and I just want to give some credit that there are chunks of them out there. I mean I have heard. Okay, so you asked about the craziest thing in corporate America. I finally remember my craziest thing in corporate America. I have heard from friends that they were sitting in meetings at giant, mega death corps that sell lots of stuff. Okay. So like, imagine a big box store that like you or I have been inside, okay, and somebody was legitimately advocating that to meet their net zero target should stop selling beef products in the grocery at their store. And somebody else is like, people like buying hamburger at our store, We're just going to remove it because then it's good for the climate, because you know. The little reveal is that the left thinks that all the cows should go away because they can't make their math math with the cows, just to be clear. But there's literally sitting there and a person who works for a company is advocating removing all of the beef products from their entire store all across America in the name of climate justice basically, and this person is like slack John looking at them, being like, why on earth would we stop selling something to customers that they like and that we have, you know, But that was a discussion in corporate America in twenty twenty four because of these there's people who think of this ESG stuff, And that's not the AOC staffer. That's somebody who's been infected by the bug that the AOC staff are sent over the world, right, and like advocating for like a very anti consumer move at a very consumer facing company, and it was like not laughed out of the room. I mean, it was eventually laughed out of the room, but it took a while.

Okay, So, like you know, it's like we're talking just the two of us, nobody else is listening, you know. I think that explains a lot of this, right, Like, but I do think you have these people who aren't thinking about the logical endpoint, and I just want to give some credit that there are chunks of them out there. I mean I have heard. Okay, so you asked about the craziest thing in corporate America. I finally remember my craziest thing in corporate America. I have heard from friends that they were sitting in meetings at giant, mega death corps that sell lots of stuff. Okay. So like, imagine a big box store that like you or I have been inside, okay, and somebody was legitimately advocating that to meet their net zero target should stop selling beef products in the grocery at their store. And somebody else is like, people like buying hamburger at our store, We're just going to remove it because then it's good for the climate, because you know. The little reveal is that the left thinks that all the cows should go away because they can't make their math math with the cows, just to be clear. But there's literally sitting there and a person who works for a company is advocating removing all of the beef products from their entire store all across America in the name of climate justice basically, and this person is like slack John looking at them, being like, why on earth would we stop selling something to customers that they like and that we have, you know, But that was a discussion in corporate America in twenty twenty four because of these there's people who think of this ESG stuff, And that's not the AOC staffer. That's somebody who's been infected by the bug that the AOC staff are sent over the world, right, and like advocating for like a very anti consumer move at a very consumer facing company, and it was like not laughed out of the room. I mean, it was eventually laughed out of the room, but it took a while.

How much do you think this past election.

How much do you think this past election.

Was just Americans being like, I want to return to normalcy, you know, because the past four years have been totally abnormal, as you talked about, Oh, you don't need air conditioning, you know, redlines are great, or you know, men can be women, women can be men, you know what I mean, Like just we've lived in a totally bizarre world for like four years, and so how much of this past election do you think was just like, get off my lawn, I want to be normal again, you know, I.

Was just Americans being like, I want to return to normalcy, you know, because the past four years have been totally abnormal, as you talked about, Oh, you don't need air conditioning, you know, redlines are great, or you know, men can be women, women can be men, you know what I mean, Like just we've lived in a totally bizarre world for like four years, and so how much of this past election do you think was just like, get off my lawn, I want to be normal again, you know, I.

Think it's I think it describes everything. Look, the vast majority of Americans don't think of themselves as political animals. They just want they just want life to be good and normal. Right, And if you buy what they were saying before, you know, if you buy the narrative is about the last election. They are two elections ago. People were voting for Joe Biden because they thought he was like a return to like a bygone era and normalcy. And what they got to your point was bands on gas stoves and like making your dishwasher worse, and you know, boys and girls' locker rooms and the I think a logical conclusion is whatever I voted for, it's not this. I just want like life to be normal. I want to be able to go to the store and buy Hamburger and drive my car that is powered by gasoline and then go and actually have and like cook it at home without the government telling me what I can and can't use. Right. I think that really sums up a lot of people's views, and I think it's a good thing. And I think that the pressure that you're seeing under the Trump administration against DEI and a lot of these things at the federal level is going to be so comforting to people because it'll manifest itself in just like like life will just look normal at stores again, which would be really nice.

Think it's I think it describes everything. Look, the vast majority of Americans don't think of themselves as political animals. They just want they just want life to be good and normal. Right, And if you buy what they were saying before, you know, if you buy the narrative is about the last election. They are two elections ago. People were voting for Joe Biden because they thought he was like a return to like a bygone era and normalcy. And what they got to your point was bands on gas stoves and like making your dishwasher worse, and you know, boys and girls' locker rooms and the I think a logical conclusion is whatever I voted for, it's not this. I just want like life to be normal. I want to be able to go to the store and buy Hamburger and drive my car that is powered by gasoline and then go and actually have and like cook it at home without the government telling me what I can and can't use. Right. I think that really sums up a lot of people's views, and I think it's a good thing. And I think that the pressure that you're seeing under the Trump administration against DEI and a lot of these things at the federal level is going to be so comforting to people because it'll manifest itself in just like like life will just look normal at stores again, which would be really nice.

We've got a quick commercial break more with Oah Skinner on the other side, and we've seen them kind of come out the gate already and with a lot of these DEI executive orders and really sending the message that you know, this nonsense is over. We're going back to a meritocracy. We're going back to normalcy and common sense. You know, what sort of long lasting changes do you think the Trump administration can make and are they are they going about it the right way right now? And what else would you like to see from them to make those longer lasting changes.

We've got a quick commercial break more with Oah Skinner on the other side, and we've seen them kind of come out the gate already and with a lot of these DEI executive orders and really sending the message that you know, this nonsense is over. We're going back to a meritocracy. We're going back to normalcy and common sense. You know, what sort of long lasting changes do you think the Trump administration can make and are they are they going about it the right way right now? And what else would you like to see from them to make those longer lasting changes.

I mean, they have the ability to make huge changes to the extent that it will be the first time with the like host Students for Fair Admissions versus Harvard, which is a huge Supreme Court case that we haven't talked about, is really important. Now. The entire Department of Justice and the entire White House has US Supreme Court case law saying that, like, you cannot discriminate in America based on race, even if you're Harvard, and even if you're trying to do it in a like altruistic way in your own words. Right, No, you're not allowed to discriminate based on race, full stop. America gets to go back to being like a colorblind society. Now with that in their hand, they finally have the ability. It'll be the first Republican administration with the will and the law on their side to basically create pressure on corporate America. And the number one thing they can do is just follow through on the eos and investigate companies. You know, you asked question earlier that I didn't answer, which is when one company gets a boycott, what message does that send to the other market participants? They all immediately change their behavior. So if one or two companies in an industry get taken out into the school yard and just like you know, metaphorically, you know, get smacked around by the law of anti discrimination law in America using the Apartment of Justice and the Department Civil Rights and made an example of for the crazy stuff that they've been doing. The rest of them are going to stop it. They're going to just shut it down, right. Their lawyers going to walk around and be like, we're done, We're not doing any of that anymore. And the more of that that happens, the more corporate America gets locked into the middle, not being liberal, not being conservative, which frankly, that's a good place for it to be because it's supposed to sell things to both types of people in America, and so the you know what I just want to see is this the cadence just keeps going right because it's been a focus at the beginning, and now just get it implemented. And the more pressure it more, the more it sets corporate America free. And I think if there's four years of pressure, I don't think you're ever going to see corporate America writ large go crazy to the left anymore because we will have trained them that there's pressure on the right and there's pressure on the left. And when there's two types of pressure, you just chart a course through the middle. Well from your lips to God's ears. So let's let's keep the pressure. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking forward to it, you know, And I just I just want people to like be able to buy things from companies that aren't trying to tell them how to live their lives. That's a good thing if we can get there.

I mean, they have the ability to make huge changes to the extent that it will be the first time with the like host Students for Fair Admissions versus Harvard, which is a huge Supreme Court case that we haven't talked about, is really important. Now. The entire Department of Justice and the entire White House has US Supreme Court case law saying that, like, you cannot discriminate in America based on race, even if you're Harvard, and even if you're trying to do it in a like altruistic way in your own words. Right, No, you're not allowed to discriminate based on race, full stop. America gets to go back to being like a colorblind society. Now with that in their hand, they finally have the ability. It'll be the first Republican administration with the will and the law on their side to basically create pressure on corporate America. And the number one thing they can do is just follow through on the eos and investigate companies. You know, you asked question earlier that I didn't answer, which is when one company gets a boycott, what message does that send to the other market participants? They all immediately change their behavior. So if one or two companies in an industry get taken out into the school yard and just like you know, metaphorically, you know, get smacked around by the law of anti discrimination law in America using the Apartment of Justice and the Department Civil Rights and made an example of for the crazy stuff that they've been doing. The rest of them are going to stop it. They're going to just shut it down, right. Their lawyers going to walk around and be like, we're done, We're not doing any of that anymore. And the more of that that happens, the more corporate America gets locked into the middle, not being liberal, not being conservative, which frankly, that's a good place for it to be because it's supposed to sell things to both types of people in America, and so the you know what I just want to see is this the cadence just keeps going right because it's been a focus at the beginning, and now just get it implemented. And the more pressure it more, the more it sets corporate America free. And I think if there's four years of pressure, I don't think you're ever going to see corporate America writ large go crazy to the left anymore because we will have trained them that there's pressure on the right and there's pressure on the left. And when there's two types of pressure, you just chart a course through the middle. Well from your lips to God's ears. So let's let's keep the pressure. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking forward to it, you know, And I just I just want people to like be able to buy things from companies that aren't trying to tell them how to live their lives. That's a good thing if we can get there.

And that's kind of what you guys are doing at the Alliance for Consumers.

And that's kind of what you guys are doing at the Alliance for Consumers.

Yeah, we fight really hard to just look there, there's a long time where companies stopped fighting back against crazy stuff, and they started being the implementers. And at the end of the day, consumers just want, you know, they want simple things. They want to be able to go to the store without getting mugged. They want there to be things on the store shelves when they get there that haven't been robbed. And they would like to not be socially lectured while they're at the store. And they would like the government to let them buy this kind of grill or that, this kind of sink or that without it being entirely dictated by AOC's chief of staff. And if you can just let them do that, they'll vote with their feet and they'll buy the things they want, and they'll live the lives they want. If you live in a coastal enclave of California, you'll buy a tiny electric car and the super expensive dishwasher, and you know, maybe you'll go without air conditioning. And if you live in Plano, Texas, you'll buy a suburban for your four kids, and you'll buy a normal house with normal cars and normal dishwashers, because that's the life you're choosing to live. And that's fine. I'm fine with a crazy person in coastal California live in a crazy life. They're allowed to be weird. But I think most people who live in Eden, Prairie, Minnesota or Plano, Texas should also be allowed to, like buy a car and have three kids. I just think that's like a normal thing to do.

Yeah, we fight really hard to just look there, there's a long time where companies stopped fighting back against crazy stuff, and they started being the implementers. And at the end of the day, consumers just want, you know, they want simple things. They want to be able to go to the store without getting mugged. They want there to be things on the store shelves when they get there that haven't been robbed. And they would like to not be socially lectured while they're at the store. And they would like the government to let them buy this kind of grill or that, this kind of sink or that without it being entirely dictated by AOC's chief of staff. And if you can just let them do that, they'll vote with their feet and they'll buy the things they want, and they'll live the lives they want. If you live in a coastal enclave of California, you'll buy a tiny electric car and the super expensive dishwasher, and you know, maybe you'll go without air conditioning. And if you live in Plano, Texas, you'll buy a suburban for your four kids, and you'll buy a normal house with normal cars and normal dishwashers, because that's the life you're choosing to live. And that's fine. I'm fine with a crazy person in coastal California live in a crazy life. They're allowed to be weird. But I think most people who live in Eden, Prairie, Minnesota or Plano, Texas should also be allowed to, like buy a car and have three kids. I just think that's like a normal thing to do.

Yeah, like I don't want to be weird.

Yeah, like I don't want to be weird.

Yes, most Americans, just like most Americans are busy with their kids and their lives, and they're not thinking about how they could squeeze an extra two percent efficiency out of their dishwasher and exchange for an extra three thousand dollars. That's a Nancy Pelosi problem. That's not a family in Plano, Texas problem. And along the way, the government got confused and they started making it. You know, we call it mandated progressive lifestyle choices. They're just trying to like mandate the Nancy Pelosi Marine California crazy lifestyle onto the rest of the country rather than just letting those people be them and the rest of the country be normal America.

Yes, most Americans, just like most Americans are busy with their kids and their lives, and they're not thinking about how they could squeeze an extra two percent efficiency out of their dishwasher and exchange for an extra three thousand dollars. That's a Nancy Pelosi problem. That's not a family in Plano, Texas problem. And along the way, the government got confused and they started making it. You know, we call it mandated progressive lifestyle choices. They're just trying to like mandate the Nancy Pelosi Marine California crazy lifestyle onto the rest of the country rather than just letting those people be them and the rest of the country be normal America.

Waite Skinner was great to meet you recently and great to have you on the podcast. I really appreciate your time.

Waite Skinner was great to meet you recently and great to have you on the podcast. I really appreciate your time.

This has been fun.

This has been fun.

That was Waged Skinner. Appreciate him for taking the time to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week until next time.

That was Waged Skinner. Appreciate him for taking the time to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week until next time.