Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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All right, let's get to the broader market here. You're taking a look at treasuries, still having all the sell off here, yield's really pushing higher. The question is why is it just purely just a risk on trade and then risk off and treasuries. Let's get more with Ira Jersey, Bloomberg Intelligence Chief US Interest Rate strategistic joining us IRA. When you look at a move like this, is this a purely Hey, tariffs might not be as bad. We're buy inequities, we're selling bonds.

All right, let's get to the broader market here. You're taking a look at treasuries, still having all the sell off here, yield's really pushing higher. The question is why is it just purely just a risk on trade and then risk off and treasuries. Let's get more with Ira Jersey, Bloomberg Intelligence Chief US Interest Rate strategistic joining us IRA. When you look at a move like this, is this a purely Hey, tariffs might not be as bad. We're buy inequities, we're selling bonds.

Yeah, I think it's as simple as that, Alex. At least this morning the headline certainly of the SMP Global pmis also didn't hurt any either. You saw a little bit of a move after that with yields moving up a basis one or two, But generally it's the risk on sentiment right now. And you know, we've been talking about the entire year We're going to have this play between, Look, are we going into a recession anytime soon or is the economy going to hang on just enough that the Fed Reserve is going to be reluctant to cut interest rates because you know, the services sector is doing okay. Plus tariffs might increase inflation expectations. So the market just hovering around this, you know, low four percent range for the tenure yield is probably something that we're going to continue to see for quite a long time.

Yeah, I think it's as simple as that, Alex. At least this morning the headline certainly of the SMP Global pmis also didn't hurt any either. You saw a little bit of a move after that with yields moving up a basis one or two, But generally it's the risk on sentiment right now. And you know, we've been talking about the entire year We're going to have this play between, Look, are we going into a recession anytime soon or is the economy going to hang on just enough that the Fed Reserve is going to be reluctant to cut interest rates because you know, the services sector is doing okay. Plus tariffs might increase inflation expectations. So the market just hovering around this, you know, low four percent range for the tenure yield is probably something that we're going to continue to see for quite a long time.

We're going to get some inflation data at the end of this week, Ira, what do you think the how do you think the Fed's looking at this core PCEE data that we'll get on Friday.

We're going to get some inflation data at the end of this week, Ira, what do you think the how do you think the Fed's looking at this core PCEE data that we'll get on Friday.

Well, they like the core PC data. But usually and in the recent past, the forecast has been done a pretty good job in determining where it's going to be, at least within a tenth of a percent. So I suspect that that the market. Yeah, if there's a big surprise, obviously the market will move. But I think we'll move on that and think about next week's non form payroll report and some of the other PMI reports that we get from the US from the Institute of Supply management next week. Those tend to be the bigger movers, right, and the jobs market still is the key, with certainly CPI inflation being number two. Interestingly, when you look at what the ten year yield has been most sensitive to in terms of changes when data points miss, it's always payrolls number one. CPI has been number two, but this pc inflator is all the way down at number seven right now in our list of the top ten, so that's fallen off quite a bit. Retail sales, on the other hand, that's now number three. That had been number two for a long time. But those three are really the data points that you want to focus in on. That's certainly when you see any shifts there, that's when you're going to see big moves in the treasury market.

Well, they like the core PC data. But usually and in the recent past, the forecast has been done a pretty good job in determining where it's going to be, at least within a tenth of a percent. So I suspect that that the market. Yeah, if there's a big surprise, obviously the market will move. But I think we'll move on that and think about next week's non form payroll report and some of the other PMI reports that we get from the US from the Institute of Supply management next week. Those tend to be the bigger movers, right, and the jobs market still is the key, with certainly CPI inflation being number two. Interestingly, when you look at what the ten year yield has been most sensitive to in terms of changes when data points miss, it's always payrolls number one. CPI has been number two, but this pc inflator is all the way down at number seven right now in our list of the top ten, so that's fallen off quite a bit. Retail sales, on the other hand, that's now number three. That had been number two for a long time. But those three are really the data points that you want to focus in on. That's certainly when you see any shifts there, that's when you're going to see big moves in the treasury market.

And we get some auctions this week as well, really in the belly of the curve. You had mentioned earlier last week that the ten year had kind of found its high, but we're looking for a bottom. But what does that mean then for the belly.

And we get some auctions this week as well, really in the belly of the curve. You had mentioned earlier last week that the ten year had kind of found its high, but we're looking for a bottom. But what does that mean then for the belly.

Yeah, so we get twos, fives, and seven So those fives and sevens is distinctively the belly. I actually think tomorrow's two year auction will be maybe the most well bid this year of the this week's auctions, in part because the break even and the risk factors that you can get at a four percent two year yield means that basically yields have to double over the next year for people to start losing money. So you're if you're an investor, whether you're benchmark to some index or you just want to hide somewhere, the two year I think will still get pretty good demand, But those fives and sevens are the question, Alex, and I think that they'll probably do okay. And I'm basing that on the fact that last week's twenty year and the twenty year auctions have not gone particularly well in general over the last couple of years. But last week it was very strong. Auction was one of the strongest twenty year auctions that we've actually had since that point was reintroduced. And so I do think that that fines and sevens this week will probably go okay, particularly if they cheapen up a little bit here over the next forty eight hours.

Yeah, so we get twos, fives, and seven So those fives and sevens is distinctively the belly. I actually think tomorrow's two year auction will be maybe the most well bid this year of the this week's auctions, in part because the break even and the risk factors that you can get at a four percent two year yield means that basically yields have to double over the next year for people to start losing money. So you're if you're an investor, whether you're benchmark to some index or you just want to hide somewhere, the two year I think will still get pretty good demand, But those fives and sevens are the question, Alex, and I think that they'll probably do okay. And I'm basing that on the fact that last week's twenty year and the twenty year auctions have not gone particularly well in general over the last couple of years. But last week it was very strong. Auction was one of the strongest twenty year auctions that we've actually had since that point was reintroduced. And so I do think that that fines and sevens this week will probably go okay, particularly if they cheapen up a little bit here over the next forty eight hours.

As Paul, have you totally tuned out at this moment because I was talking about auctions.

As Paul, have you totally tuned out at this moment because I was talking about auctions.

Yes, sweet, I did, absolutely.

Yes, sweet, I did, absolutely.

I feel you, I, but I'm ready to follow up here.

I feel you, I, but I'm ready to follow up here.

What's the soccer match we got to focus on in the next couple of days here? I?

What's the soccer match we got to focus on in the next couple of days here? I?

Oh, well, I'm still I'm still depressed that the United States came in fourth in the Nations League in over the weekend, losing to both to both Panama and Canada in the consolation game. So you know, ask me later this week and I'll let you know.

Oh, well, I'm still I'm still depressed that the United States came in fourth in the Nations League in over the weekend, losing to both to both Panama and Canada in the consolation game. So you know, ask me later this week and I'll let you know.

He got him off his game. All right, Iran, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Ivery Jersey Chief, you wish interest rate strategist, Chief International soccer strategist for bloomerg Intelligence. You wears two hats.

He got him off his game. All right, Iran, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Ivery Jersey Chief, you wish interest rate strategist, Chief International soccer strategist for bloomerg Intelligence. You wears two hats.

There.

There.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarklay and Android Auto the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Alex Deal, You're alongside paulse We need this at Bloomberg Intelligence Radio. Happy rainy Monday in New York. Were broadcasting live from our interactive broken studio right here in Mintown, Manhattan, and also check us out on YouTube as well. I's got to check in on the markets. We're obviously seeing a relief rally here. It's definitely a risk on kind of day. Does it last? What do you do with it? Danian Dioria is co chief investment officer at Investment, joining us now from Hartford Data. Is this the kind of day that you sell into rallies or do you feel like, all right, things are going to.

Alex Deal, You're alongside paulse We need this at Bloomberg Intelligence Radio. Happy rainy Monday in New York. Were broadcasting live from our interactive broken studio right here in Mintown, Manhattan, and also check us out on YouTube as well. I's got to check in on the markets. We're obviously seeing a relief rally here. It's definitely a risk on kind of day. Does it last? What do you do with it? Danian Dioria is co chief investment officer at Investment, joining us now from Hartford Data. Is this the kind of day that you sell into rallies or do you feel like, all right, things are going to.

Go well well?

Go well well?

I mean, you know, the obviously the correction that preceded all of this was a lot more sentiment driven, I think than fundamentals driven. And so you know, if you're going to be trading on any of these moves in the market, you know, any of the hey, now we're going to have a.

I mean, you know, the obviously the correction that preceded all of this was a lot more sentiment driven, I think than fundamentals driven. And so you know, if you're going to be trading on any of these moves in the market, you know, any of the hey, now we're going to have a.

Lot of tear ffs, no apso we're cutting back. It's going to be the dirty fifteen. It's not going to be everybody, et cetera.

Lot of tear ffs, no apso we're cutting back. It's going to be the dirty fifteen. It's not going to be everybody, et cetera.

Then yeah, this is probably a buying moment I think for the app person. You know, in the average investor, it's more about what are the fundamentals here? Do we actually think you know, the kind of the tariff tantrum that we're going through and have been going through and will continue to you know, in spite of a little bit of positive news on that front, you know, is that is that something that's going to ultimately lead to broader concerns in the market. And you know, look, corrections three quarters of the time don't lead to recessions. But you know, a lot of it depends on what news is yet.

Then yeah, this is probably a buying moment I think for the app person. You know, in the average investor, it's more about what are the fundamentals here? Do we actually think you know, the kind of the tariff tantrum that we're going through and have been going through and will continue to you know, in spite of a little bit of positive news on that front, you know, is that is that something that's going to ultimately lead to broader concerns in the market. And you know, look, corrections three quarters of the time don't lead to recessions. But you know, a lot of it depends on what news is yet.

To come.

To come.

For a world where there is some level of uncertainly maybe greater than average. Is it a way you construct your portfolio, is how you allocate your assets or just buy quality and I guess hope for the best.

For a world where there is some level of uncertainly maybe greater than average. Is it a way you construct your portfolio, is how you allocate your assets or just buy quality and I guess hope for the best.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I mean, look, there's a there's a lot of different ways you can kind of come at this. Certainly, and we sit you know, investments, it's at the junction of a lot of manager there's.

So I mean, look, there's a there's a lot of different ways you can kind of come at this. Certainly, and we sit you know, investments, it's at the junction of a lot of manager there's.

A lot of research services.

A lot of research services.

I mean, certainly you're hearing a lot more international speak. You know, obviously I came into this year, I'll be honest with you. We do these chief Investment Officer panels everywhere, and the idea of US dominance was just you know, very much a theme at these panels. And you know, look, markets are cyclical, and certainly the US markets had much higher valuations than international markets.

I mean, certainly you're hearing a lot more international speak. You know, obviously I came into this year, I'll be honest with you. We do these chief Investment Officer panels everywhere, and the idea of US dominance was just you know, very much a theme at these panels. And you know, look, markets are cyclical, and certainly the US markets had much higher valuations than international markets.

I think you're seeing some repricing of that now.

I think you're seeing some repricing of that now.

But you know, the tone has shifted, right, and you're hearing more around well, hey, maybe international diversification is a good idea in portfolios. We would say that's a long run secular asset allocation need you know, for most people, right, unless you're unless you're completely focused on US indexes and can't handle the tracking error, we would largely say be diverse bied international markets.

But you know, the tone has shifted, right, and you're hearing more around well, hey, maybe international diversification is a good idea in portfolios. We would say that's a long run secular asset allocation need you know, for most people, right, unless you're unless you're completely focused on US indexes and can't handle the tracking error, we would largely say be diverse bied international markets.

Anyway, we are certainly.

Anyway, we are certainly.

Hearing more now even from a news and macro perspective, that looking at international you know, having diversification away from US makes sense.

Hearing more now even from a news and macro perspective, that looking at international you know, having diversification away from US makes sense.

And does that do you have to sell something to then buy or is this like, hey, I had some cash, I'm going to deploy.

And does that do you have to sell something to then buy or is this like, hey, I had some cash, I'm going to deploy.

Well, you know, that's a great question because of course.

Well, you know, that's a great question because of course.

We've been living in the last few years with this massive amount of money sitting in cash. And while it's great, you know, we're past these years of financial repression for just savers.

We've been living in the last few years with this massive amount of money sitting in cash. And while it's great, you know, we're past these years of financial repression for just savers.

We all know that, you know that kind of.

We all know that, you know that kind of.

The traditional wisdom is unless it's money you need in the next three years.

The traditional wisdom is unless it's money you need in the next three years.

It's probably better served than sitting in cash.

It's probably better served than sitting in cash.

So there are certainly people with money on the sidelines who they've missed, you know, whopping twenty plus percent two years in a row from the S and P for example, And as we all know, you know, it's time in the market, right, if you're missing those big months, years, et cetera, it's really hard to make that back up when you look at the average that.

So there are certainly people with money on the sidelines who they've missed, you know, whopping twenty plus percent two years in a row from the S and P for example, And as we all know, you know, it's time in the market, right, if you're missing those big months, years, et cetera, it's really hard to make that back up when you look at the average that.

You accumulate over time.

You accumulate over time.

So look, if you if you have long run money sitting in cash, for sure, we would say put that into a balanced portfolio. But the other side of the coin is you've also got a lot of people who leaned into stocks, right, very pro growth optimism that we started the year. You know, obviously big run up, especially driven by growth, and so you have people who are overweight equities. And if your overweight equities relative to your risk tolerance and what you can handle, you know, you should be thinking about harvesting from the equity position if you're doing more equity, and you should also be thinking about getting more into fixed income.

So look, if you if you have long run money sitting in cash, for sure, we would say put that into a balanced portfolio. But the other side of the coin is you've also got a lot of people who leaned into stocks, right, very pro growth optimism that we started the year. You know, obviously big run up, especially driven by growth, and so you have people who are overweight equities. And if your overweight equities relative to your risk tolerance and what you can handle, you know, you should be thinking about harvesting from the equity position if you're doing more equity, and you should also be thinking about getting more into fixed income.

Well, in your notes, you've got bitcoin is no gold, So let me get your thoughts on bitcoin.

Well, in your notes, you've got bitcoin is no gold, So let me get your thoughts on bitcoin.

Yeah, you know it's bitcoin is one dred percent from my perspective, a risk on speculative asset. I we read and you know you're seeing headlines obviously now comparing kind of the performance of bitcoin and gold are these places to kind of hot out, say again, good, thank you? Yeah, so so so look are these places to hide out? And we would just very much point out that they are massively different. You know, when people think about a bitcoin investment, they're not thinking about it a as a currency or b as you know, certainly you know, there's an argument that this is another form it's digital gold, but from the standpoint of the volatility of these assets, there's no comparison.

Yeah, you know it's bitcoin is one dred percent from my perspective, a risk on speculative asset. I we read and you know you're seeing headlines obviously now comparing kind of the performance of bitcoin and gold are these places to kind of hot out, say again, good, thank you? Yeah, so so so look are these places to hide out? And we would just very much point out that they are massively different. You know, when people think about a bitcoin investment, they're not thinking about it a as a currency or b as you know, certainly you know, there's an argument that this is another form it's digital gold, but from the standpoint of the volatility of these assets, there's no comparison.

And when you're thinking about bitcoin, it's really kind.

And when you're thinking about bitcoin, it's really kind.

Of more this asymmetric payoff, the potential for sort of like a lott of like return.

Of more this asymmetric payoff, the potential for sort of like a lott of like return.

If you want.

If you want.

That, that's fine, But thinking that it looks like gold and is going to be a safe haven asset I think doesn't work.

That, that's fine, But thinking that it looks like gold and is going to be a safe haven asset I think doesn't work.

Okay, So that kind of lined me up for the safe haven part. So all this taking into effect what's like your best safe haven trade right now?

Okay, So that kind of lined me up for the safe haven part. So all this taking into effect what's like your best safe haven trade right now?

Certainly fixed income, you know, the standard place to have ballast in the portfolio, I think makes a lot.

Certainly fixed income, you know, the standard place to have ballast in the portfolio, I think makes a lot.

Of sense still.

Of sense still.

You know, but if you're talking about with inequity markets, you started off there actually mentioned quality.

You know, but if you're talking about with inequity markets, you started off there actually mentioned quality.

There's a couple of different ways to go after quality.

There's a couple of different ways to go after quality.

You can do you know, traditional quality is a fundamental indicator. You're looking for stocks that or you know, frankly ETFs or mutual funds with a bevy of stocks that have high quality earnings, right, so high profitability, you know, not the need to reinvest plow a lot of money back in, you know, and also probably you know, cash based earnings more than a cruel based earnings. So that's one indicator. Another is more technical indicator, of course, which is just what is the volatility of that stock? And you've got a lot of ways to make that play to the traditional defensive sort of you can pick low volatility stocks, or you can pick kind of minimum variants where you know, the stock itself maybe is not the lowest volatility, but it doesn't correlate well with the rest of the market, so it adds sort of padding to the rest of the portfolio.

You can do you know, traditional quality is a fundamental indicator. You're looking for stocks that or you know, frankly ETFs or mutual funds with a bevy of stocks that have high quality earnings, right, so high profitability, you know, not the need to reinvest plow a lot of money back in, you know, and also probably you know, cash based earnings more than a cruel based earnings. So that's one indicator. Another is more technical indicator, of course, which is just what is the volatility of that stock? And you've got a lot of ways to make that play to the traditional defensive sort of you can pick low volatility stocks, or you can pick kind of minimum variants where you know, the stock itself maybe is not the lowest volatility, but it doesn't correlate well with the rest of the market, so it adds sort of padding to the rest of the portfolio.

That's a really good point, all right, Dana, Thanks Slot. We really appreciated Dana Diyoria, a CoA Chief investment officer at Investnet joining us on the markets.

That's a really good point, all right, Dana, Thanks Slot. We really appreciated Dana Diyoria, a CoA Chief investment officer at Investnet joining us on the markets.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg business app listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch US live on YouTube.

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The other wild carbon than the Trump administration is how the talks unfold when it comes to peace between Russia and Ukraine. Apparently US and Russian officials are meeting in Saudi Arabia to discuss a potential CEA spot in the war, and this of course follows talks between the American and Ukrainian teams joining US now. As Roz mathis and Bloomberg News director for Europe, the Middle East and Africa, Roz, what do you know in terms of where the talks are well?

The other wild carbon than the Trump administration is how the talks unfold when it comes to peace between Russia and Ukraine. Apparently US and Russian officials are meeting in Saudi Arabia to discuss a potential CEA spot in the war, and this of course follows talks between the American and Ukrainian teams joining US now. As Roz mathis and Bloomberg News director for Europe, the Middle East and Africa, Roz, what do you know in terms of where the talks are well?

As you were saying, we had talks initially between the US and Ukraine officials in Saudi Arabia. Now we've got talks that have been going on today between the US and Russia, and they seem to be really granular and quite technical in nature, focused on some specifics around perhaps getting agreement for ceaespar and maritime traffic in the Black Sea, for example. We're not getting a lot of redoubts at the moment from those conversations, so they seem to have gone into a bit of a quiet phase on it, at least with each other. But the sense is they're going bit by bit and this idea of a ceasefi in Ukraine. We had that conversation aitially around in a CESFI fit not hitting each other's energy infrastructure even though attack seemingly are still going on in the minute. And now we've got conversations around how to get you know, guarantees around traffic, maritime traffic in the Black Sea. But the big one, of course is what to do where people are actually fighting along the line of contact, which is a very long line on the side of Ukraine, and what to do there in terms of bringing the fighting to a holt. There doesn't seem to be any particular developments on that front so far. So the message really that we're getting is that even though the US President clearly wants a very quick ceasefire here, that there's a lot of steps that need to happen, a lot of complexity along the way.

As you were saying, we had talks initially between the US and Ukraine officials in Saudi Arabia. Now we've got talks that have been going on today between the US and Russia, and they seem to be really granular and quite technical in nature, focused on some specifics around perhaps getting agreement for ceaespar and maritime traffic in the Black Sea, for example. We're not getting a lot of redoubts at the moment from those conversations, so they seem to have gone into a bit of a quiet phase on it, at least with each other. But the sense is they're going bit by bit and this idea of a ceasefi in Ukraine. We had that conversation aitially around in a CESFI fit not hitting each other's energy infrastructure even though attack seemingly are still going on in the minute. And now we've got conversations around how to get you know, guarantees around traffic, maritime traffic in the Black Sea. But the big one, of course is what to do where people are actually fighting along the line of contact, which is a very long line on the side of Ukraine, and what to do there in terms of bringing the fighting to a holt. There doesn't seem to be any particular developments on that front so far. So the message really that we're getting is that even though the US President clearly wants a very quick ceasefire here, that there's a lot of steps that need to happen, a lot of complexity along the way.

And rise as you point out, the US administration certainly hopes for a Ukraine piece deal, but it doesn't seem like Vladimir Putin is in any hurry here. What do we know about his thinking?

And rise as you point out, the US administration certainly hopes for a Ukraine piece deal, but it doesn't seem like Vladimir Putin is in any hurry here. What do we know about his thinking?

Well, that's right, I mean, obviously he's willing to have conversations and perhaps even a direct meeting with the US President with Donald Trump at some point in the near future, perhaps in a place like Arabia again. But he's made it really clear, and that's by our own reporting and our own sourcing as well, is that he's got Maximum's demands here and he's not going to shave those down in any great hurry. These are things that he says that he insists need to happen for there to be a cease fire moving towards a more permanent deal, and those are essentially red lines that are not that great for Ukraine in all of this, in terms of his territorial demands to make sure that Ukraine can never join NATO, for example, to really know confence Ukraine in and whether those are just demands that he gets traction on with Donald Trump and the US in the end that are detrimental to Ukraine. So he's not in any great hurry here to get to a ceaspar final dear, He's obviously open to talking, but the position from Russia has been very clear. They've got demands and they want them met.

Well, that's right, I mean, obviously he's willing to have conversations and perhaps even a direct meeting with the US President with Donald Trump at some point in the near future, perhaps in a place like Arabia again. But he's made it really clear, and that's by our own reporting and our own sourcing as well, is that he's got Maximum's demands here and he's not going to shave those down in any great hurry. These are things that he says that he insists need to happen for there to be a cease fire moving towards a more permanent deal, and those are essentially red lines that are not that great for Ukraine in all of this, in terms of his territorial demands to make sure that Ukraine can never join NATO, for example, to really know confence Ukraine in and whether those are just demands that he gets traction on with Donald Trump and the US in the end that are detrimental to Ukraine. So he's not in any great hurry here to get to a ceaspar final dear, He's obviously open to talking, but the position from Russia has been very clear. They've got demands and they want them met.

What about Europe? Where's Europe right now? In during these conversations, still trying to get in the door, it seems from the conversation in a fulsome way at least.

What about Europe? Where's Europe right now? In during these conversations, still trying to get in the door, it seems from the conversation in a fulsome way at least.

I mean, obviously we've had a lot of meetings that have gone on just at the EU level lately, including last week, and Ealy is having another call this week. We know that again the US pent the UK Prime Minister rather talked with Donald Trump yet again. So a lot of conversations going on, and the message from Europe is we need to be part of the discussion around a CEASPA, and Ukraine's interesting to be represented, but it's very clear that they know they're struggling to get a seat at the table and that Donald Trump is not particularly interested in giving them one at the table, let alone giving Ukraine a proper seat at the table. And so for Europe the challenge is getting their voice is heard, or showing that they're there and able to pick up some of the slack potentially and supporting Ukraine.

I mean, obviously we've had a lot of meetings that have gone on just at the EU level lately, including last week, and Ealy is having another call this week. We know that again the US pent the UK Prime Minister rather talked with Donald Trump yet again. So a lot of conversations going on, and the message from Europe is we need to be part of the discussion around a CEASPA, and Ukraine's interesting to be represented, but it's very clear that they know they're struggling to get a seat at the table and that Donald Trump is not particularly interested in giving them one at the table, let alone giving Ukraine a proper seat at the table. And so for Europe the challenge is getting their voice is heard, or showing that they're there and able to pick up some of the slack potentially and supporting Ukraine.

Roz Is there any sense of timing when this could come together? Is there any consensus building out there?

Roz Is there any sense of timing when this could come together? Is there any consensus building out there?

Well, it's very hard to say, because again these talks that are going on at the moment seemed to have been very technical in nature and very specific around detail. So are we getting the little pieces of the chessboard towards a bigger CEASPA at some point? Imagine? The key thing is whether there's an agreement to have further rounds of talks within a matter of days or at least towards the end.

Well, it's very hard to say, because again these talks that are going on at the moment seemed to have been very technical in nature and very specific around detail. So are we getting the little pieces of the chessboard towards a bigger CEASPA at some point? Imagine? The key thing is whether there's an agreement to have further rounds of talks within a matter of days or at least towards the end.

Of this week.

Of this week.

And at what point can that build to a direct meeting between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, possibly as soon as next month. I mean, obviously Donald Trump keeps saying Easter as a timeline. He wants something by Easter. But what exactly he would be happy to get by easter? Is it a partial ceasepar again around energy, or perhaps maritime traffic in the Black Sea as a springboard to something else. So we're likely to get a full throat at CSPA either way, at least in the next couple of weeks.

And at what point can that build to a direct meeting between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, possibly as soon as next month. I mean, obviously Donald Trump keeps saying Easter as a timeline. He wants something by Easter. But what exactly he would be happy to get by easter? Is it a partial ceasepar again around energy, or perhaps maritime traffic in the Black Sea as a springboard to something else. So we're likely to get a full throat at CSPA either way, at least in the next couple of weeks.

All right, Ros, thanks a lot, We really appreciate it. Ras Mathison joining us on the talks between Russia and the US on Ukraine. All right, some breaking news for you, ASHALLMI is said to raise about five point five billion dollars an upsized share placement. They were selling about eight hundred million shares now, Shelmy was kicking off a share sale in part to raise funds for its EV business. The fundraising expected to be a long term positive for the company, but many saying that it may pressure shale shares in the short term due to shocker dilution.

All right, Ros, thanks a lot, We really appreciate it. Ras Mathison joining us on the talks between Russia and the US on Ukraine. All right, some breaking news for you, ASHALLMI is said to raise about five point five billion dollars an upsized share placement. They were selling about eight hundred million shares now, Shelmy was kicking off a share sale in part to raise funds for its EV business. The fundraising expected to be a long term positive for the company, but many saying that it may pressure shale shares in the short term due to shocker dilution.

And the stock is up bus sixty five percent year to date and two hundred and eighty five percent on a trilling a twelve month basis. Even I know that's a good time to self stock.

And the stock is up bus sixty five percent year to date and two hundred and eighty five percent on a trilling a twelve month basis. Even I know that's a good time to self stock.

Yeah, it is, and they take your point, all right. Coming up R J. Gallows, Senior portfolio manager Fixed and come at Federate Hermes will be joining us on the fixed income space. We get two fives and tens later on this week. A lot of supply coming online there.

Yeah, it is, and they take your point, all right. Coming up R J. Gallows, Senior portfolio manager Fixed and come at Federate Hermes will be joining us on the fixed income space. We get two fives and tens later on this week. A lot of supply coming online there.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

Switch over to the EV business interest story out there that's really been rocking. I think the EV business that's byd you know, saying they've gon have a five minute charging system that is a game changer if that is in fact the case. Let's check in with bn EF folks here b n EF. They cover all the energy industry head to toe. Alex's b but they've got all the data, all the analysis. Great stuff. Ryan Fisher joins us Bloomberg bn EF EV Charging team leader. So Ryan, talk to us about this by d story as relates to this fast charger.

Switch over to the EV business interest story out there that's really been rocking. I think the EV business that's byd you know, saying they've gon have a five minute charging system that is a game changer if that is in fact the case. Let's check in with bn EF folks here b n EF. They cover all the energy industry head to toe. Alex's b but they've got all the data, all the analysis. Great stuff. Ryan Fisher joins us Bloomberg bn EF EV Charging team leader. So Ryan, talk to us about this by d story as relates to this fast charger.

Yeah, I mean this has just come out of nowhere. In some ways, we had the portions of this world doing charging three fifty KILLOW. This is a thousand killer what we were three to four times the kind of other best in class that people were expecting when we talk about five minutes. Obviously, that's similar to gasoline for four hundred kilometers of charge. Some of the others are more like the best in class. Lucid obviously is quite famous. They're doing it in like one hundred maybe one hundred and eighty kilometers in that time.

Yeah, I mean this has just come out of nowhere. In some ways, we had the portions of this world doing charging three fifty KILLOW. This is a thousand killer what we were three to four times the kind of other best in class that people were expecting when we talk about five minutes. Obviously, that's similar to gasoline for four hundred kilometers of charge. Some of the others are more like the best in class. Lucid obviously is quite famous. They're doing it in like one hundred maybe one hundred and eighty kilometers in that time.

This is a real step change.

This is a real step change.

And not only is it that, what you've got is an announcement and they're going to do it, going to make the vehicles available a month later. So typically you might hear an announcement from a Western automaker and maybe a couple of years later that tech you've heard about will be there. Whereas they're saying these vehicles in China, you'll be able to buy them soon, but yeah, that is only in China.

And not only is it that, what you've got is an announcement and they're going to do it, going to make the vehicles available a month later. So typically you might hear an announcement from a Western automaker and maybe a couple of years later that tech you've heard about will be there. Whereas they're saying these vehicles in China, you'll be able to buy them soon, but yeah, that is only in China.

How how did they get it down to five minutes?

How how did they get it down to five minutes?

So it seems like they've improved the fast charging technology through both the voltage so you have higher voltage on the vehicles, you could lower the current or the current to accept this power, and then changing the battery chemistry as well.

So it seems like they've improved the fast charging technology through both the voltage so you have higher voltage on the vehicles, you could lower the current or the current to accept this power, and then changing the battery chemistry as well.

So the interesting thing is.

So the interesting thing is.

That they've added different types of calling because if you have really high currents going through the battery, then you have a lot of heat.

That they've added different types of calling because if you have really high currents going through the battery, then you have a lot of heat.

Being created, so they've changed their cooling technology.

Being created, so they've changed their cooling technology.

They've improved some of the other intricacies of the sales as well. And on a bigger market point, you've got a lot of companies saying we're going to build solid state batteries, so like next generation battery technologies for the car, Well, is that even needed any more? Or if BYD can do this with an evolution of the current tech.

They've improved some of the other intricacies of the sales as well. And on a bigger market point, you've got a lot of companies saying we're going to build solid state batteries, so like next generation battery technologies for the car, Well, is that even needed any more? Or if BYD can do this with an evolution of the current tech.

So what can be what likely will be the competitive response from the Western battery infrastructure people. They got to up their game, like now don't they.

So what can be what likely will be the competitive response from the Western battery infrastructure people. They got to up their game, like now don't they.

Yeah, it's just such a race.

Yeah, it's just such a race.

Like you look at these evs and you think about buying one, and there's just something new coming that's more advanced, one after the other. So like as a consumer, maybe you don't want to buy because you think, well, I'm going to buy something that'd be absollete pretty quick. From the Western automakers, they're going to find it hard. You look at BYD they've just got so many engineers, they're vertically integrated. They're doing much of this by themselves, all the way down to now buying the ships to distribute these cars they've built around the world and getting involved in the metals and mining game and things like that. So it's hard to imagine how everybody is going to compete. Obviously, we've got tariffs in different regions to try and block the Chinese out, and then when you think about this tech, there is an element of do you actually need it? So when you look on the Chinese articles, they were looking at the JAOMIU Su seven, which is the vehicle made by the Jami, which is the smartphone maker. So they've entered the market and they're selling electric vehicles and the hundreds of thousands of volume. They've outsold loads of cars. It's kind of an amazing story, and people comparing saying, well, actually, this one BYD is talking about is ten thousand dollars more expensive. So like the tech is not necessarily everything on fast charging when there's people who are doing I don't know, fast cars.

Like you look at these evs and you think about buying one, and there's just something new coming that's more advanced, one after the other. So like as a consumer, maybe you don't want to buy because you think, well, I'm going to buy something that'd be absollete pretty quick. From the Western automakers, they're going to find it hard. You look at BYD they've just got so many engineers, they're vertically integrated. They're doing much of this by themselves, all the way down to now buying the ships to distribute these cars they've built around the world and getting involved in the metals and mining game and things like that. So it's hard to imagine how everybody is going to compete. Obviously, we've got tariffs in different regions to try and block the Chinese out, and then when you think about this tech, there is an element of do you actually need it? So when you look on the Chinese articles, they were looking at the JAOMIU Su seven, which is the vehicle made by the Jami, which is the smartphone maker. So they've entered the market and they're selling electric vehicles and the hundreds of thousands of volume. They've outsold loads of cars. It's kind of an amazing story, and people comparing saying, well, actually, this one BYD is talking about is ten thousand dollars more expensive. So like the tech is not necessarily everything on fast charging when there's people who are doing I don't know, fast cars.

Fancy cars.

Fancy cars.

They've got a lot of other features as well, like whilst this is a step change, do we necessarily need five minutes over ten minutes?

They've got a lot of other features as well, like whilst this is a step change, do we necessarily need five minutes over ten minutes?

Does everybody care? It's debatable.

Does everybody care? It's debatable.

I mean it depends how long your bathroom break is, which you know you got a shot some concessions. Okay. We also had the headline that BYD is out selling Tesla's in China. In particular, you can't get a BYD car in the US, I should point that out. And the BYD sales for this year about five to six million cars. So is this five minute battery like a big selling point for this in comparison to say a Tesla or no?

I mean it depends how long your bathroom break is, which you know you got a shot some concessions. Okay. We also had the headline that BYD is out selling Tesla's in China. In particular, you can't get a BYD car in the US, I should point that out. And the BYD sales for this year about five to six million cars. So is this five minute battery like a big selling point for this in comparison to say a Tesla or no?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, I think so.

And then in China what you've got is I think last year BID saw something like one point six million pure battery election because just the battery powers the car, and I think Tesla was somewhere around six hundred thousand to seven hundred thousand.

And then in China what you've got is I think last year BID saw something like one point six million pure battery election because just the battery powers the car, and I think Tesla was somewhere around six hundred thousand to seven hundred thousand.

So it gives you, and they were seconds.

So it gives you, and they were seconds.

It gives you an idea Tesla doing well, but obviously just how well BYD are doing one of the things BYD had been leaning into previously with these plug.

It gives you an idea Tesla doing well, but obviously just how well BYD are doing one of the things BYD had been leaning into previously with these plug.

In hybrid models. So you have an engine and you have a battery.

In hybrid models. So you have an engine and you have a battery.

The engine might only be small and the car itself might be mainly running off the battery. So they've done quite well with those, and it might just show a little bit of a pivot from them to say, actually, we can.

The engine might only be small and the car itself might be mainly running off the battery. So they've done quite well with those, and it might just show a little bit of a pivot from them to say, actually, we can.

Maybe do without the engine. Now, look we've got this.

Maybe do without the engine. Now, look we've got this.

Huge range, huge huge, huge range, fast charging power vehicles like you don't necessarily need.

Huge range, huge huge, huge range, fast charging power vehicles like you don't necessarily need.

To worry about that.

To worry about that.

Also, it might be a pivot from them in terms of Tesla versus BYD when you said that they're not available in the US.

Also, it might be a pivot from them in terms of Tesla versus BYD when you said that they're not available in the US.

But they are available in other regions.

But they are available in other regions.

So they've done very well in places like Brazil and Thailand. There's something like eighty ninety percent share of the EV market there, and like eighteen ninety percent share is obviously huge for the So that's just that's Chinese manufacturers, with which Bwide is pretty major one they've got to plant out in Brazil as well, so they're making moves to kind of dominate those The charging tech could be part of that too. So the interesting thing is, like we've had these like charging connector wars. Do you have the Tesla connector do you have the connector that all the other manufacturers are using? And in Europe all the other manufacturers won out. In America, Tesla went out well. Arguably in some of these kind of smaller merging markets, this that you could end up with the Chinese connector becoming an interesting proposition and maybe the Chinese automotive industry will think about that. And it doesn't mean that they've got it so far, but if they're selling the most cars and they've got the most advanced charging tech, then maybe that's the way.

So they've done very well in places like Brazil and Thailand. There's something like eighty ninety percent share of the EV market there, and like eighteen ninety percent share is obviously huge for the So that's just that's Chinese manufacturers, with which Bwide is pretty major one they've got to plant out in Brazil as well, so they're making moves to kind of dominate those The charging tech could be part of that too. So the interesting thing is, like we've had these like charging connector wars. Do you have the Tesla connector do you have the connector that all the other manufacturers are using? And in Europe all the other manufacturers won out. In America, Tesla went out well. Arguably in some of these kind of smaller merging markets, this that you could end up with the Chinese connector becoming an interesting proposition and maybe the Chinese automotive industry will think about that. And it doesn't mean that they've got it so far, but if they're selling the most cars and they've got the most advanced charging tech, then maybe that's the way.

That they can exert more influence over the rest of the world.

That they can exert more influence over the rest of the world.

Hi, Ryan really appreciate it. Ryan Fisher is EV Charging team leader. That basically means he heads up all the coverage when it comes to EV charging at Bloomberg BNF, and as Paul was saying earlier, Bloomberg EF covers pretty much everything commodities, power, transport, industry, buildings and ad sectors, all to help with the energy transition and some hard data there.

Hi, Ryan really appreciate it. Ryan Fisher is EV Charging team leader. That basically means he heads up all the coverage when it comes to EV charging at Bloomberg BNF, and as Paul was saying earlier, Bloomberg EF covers pretty much everything commodities, power, transport, industry, buildings and ad sectors, all to help with the energy transition and some hard data there.

This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal

This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal