You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin from News Talks EDB.

You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin from News Talks EDB.

And it is time for the panel now, and I'm joined by resident economists at ope's partners, Ed mcnight high Ed.

And it is time for the panel now, and I'm joined by resident economists at ope's partners, Ed mcnight high Ed.

Hi, Francesca, great to be here, and we've.

Hi, Francesca, great to be here, and we've.

Also got broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton. Hi, Wilhelmina, good morning. Good to have you both with us. Can we please first start about the story around the boot camp and the two young people who went missing and were found in not an ideal situation for those who are running the boot camp. Look, when the boot camps were set up, we knew that they wouldn't be one hundred percent successful. They wouldn't have one hundred percent success rate. I think what most of us were really hoping was that the way that they were going to be designed would offer a solution to helping young people get back on track. Willemina, this isn't a good start.

Also got broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton. Hi, Wilhelmina, good morning. Good to have you both with us. Can we please first start about the story around the boot camp and the two young people who went missing and were found in not an ideal situation for those who are running the boot camp. Look, when the boot camps were set up, we knew that they wouldn't be one hundred percent successful. They wouldn't have one hundred percent success rate. I think what most of us were really hoping was that the way that they were going to be designed would offer a solution to helping young people get back on track. Willemina, this isn't a good start.

No, it doesn't really bode well for the start of this trial. I don't think we really needed this trial to prove that all in all, ultimately they don't work or aren't as effective as other methods. There's already evidence out there to show that. I think we really have to strip back the layers and look behind it and actually address the issues at the core. That's things like poverty and equality, abuse, isolation, the lack of family support and connection, and look actually why these young people are driven to a life of crime. Obviously, the boot camps are a less expensive, easier option, I think, and is obviously a quicker likelihood of getting results, which is probably why the government has taken that route instead of putting all of its focus and time and addressing those core issues. But many of these young people, if you look at them, they have grown up without parents, without opportunity, They don't have a sense of community and connection. And I remember doing a story maybe two or three years ago when ram raids were a massive issue and speaking to a couple of ram raiders at the time, I think one of them was thirteen, one of them was fifteen, And when you peel back the layers and you actually talk to them without any outside influence, it was just me and them talking and discussing why it was that they did this, and it was really sad, and they said, I don't have any family, I don't have anywhere to go. I've found a sense of community and a sense of belonging and doing things like this that other people who are doing it, they've taken me under their wing. And it's obviously those issues that we really need to target to stop people. It's the preventative measures rather than the ambulance that of the cliff and I appreciate the effort that's been made to do something, but I just don't know if this is the right route.

No, it doesn't really bode well for the start of this trial. I don't think we really needed this trial to prove that all in all, ultimately they don't work or aren't as effective as other methods. There's already evidence out there to show that. I think we really have to strip back the layers and look behind it and actually address the issues at the core. That's things like poverty and equality, abuse, isolation, the lack of family support and connection, and look actually why these young people are driven to a life of crime. Obviously, the boot camps are a less expensive, easier option, I think, and is obviously a quicker likelihood of getting results, which is probably why the government has taken that route instead of putting all of its focus and time and addressing those core issues. But many of these young people, if you look at them, they have grown up without parents, without opportunity, They don't have a sense of community and connection. And I remember doing a story maybe two or three years ago when ram raids were a massive issue and speaking to a couple of ram raiders at the time, I think one of them was thirteen, one of them was fifteen, And when you peel back the layers and you actually talk to them without any outside influence, it was just me and them talking and discussing why it was that they did this, and it was really sad, and they said, I don't have any family, I don't have anywhere to go. I've found a sense of community and a sense of belonging and doing things like this that other people who are doing it, they've taken me under their wing. And it's obviously those issues that we really need to target to stop people. It's the preventative measures rather than the ambulance that of the cliff and I appreciate the effort that's been made to do something, but I just don't know if this is the right route.

Do you think it's too soon to judge a program with.

Do you think it's too soon to judge a program with.

This, I think it's much too soon, And in fact, I think the fact that there are some young kids running around with machetes trying to hijack cars shows you the exact reason why we need these boot camps. These kids aren't doing these ridiculous things because of the boot camps. That's the reason why we've got to have them. And I understand what Wilhelmine is saying that we've got to think about some of the other causes of poverty and whether people have parents and a nice home and all of these things. But meanwhile, they're out there doing some really serious things. And the person that I'm really thinking about is that poor lady in Hamilton who had people run up to her car wielding machetes trying to take her car off her And we need to make sure that these kids are getting some serious attention and probably doing some things like boot camps to make sure that the public is safe.

This, I think it's much too soon, And in fact, I think the fact that there are some young kids running around with machetes trying to hijack cars shows you the exact reason why we need these boot camps. These kids aren't doing these ridiculous things because of the boot camps. That's the reason why we've got to have them. And I understand what Wilhelmine is saying that we've got to think about some of the other causes of poverty and whether people have parents and a nice home and all of these things. But meanwhile, they're out there doing some really serious things. And the person that I'm really thinking about is that poor lady in Hamilton who had people run up to her car wielding machetes trying to take her car off her And we need to make sure that these kids are getting some serious attention and probably doing some things like boot camps to make sure that the public is safe.

Well, I was really hoping Willhelana that we were going to have a slightly different approach to the boot camps as time to address some of the issues that you were talking about.

Well, I was really hoping Willhelana that we were going to have a slightly different approach to the boot camps as time to address some of the issues that you were talking about.

Yeah, one hundred percent agree. I think there needs to be more of a kind of a wrap around approach. We have to look at why these kids are breaking out, Why is the situation within those boot camps so untenable that they are breaking out? So, you know, perhaps if there was more of that sense of committing And obviously, you know, we've all not been in there and seen it firsthand, so we can't share that experience, that lived experience. But I think there's a real importance for a wrap around approach. I get there is merit in giving them a sense of schedule, a sense of purpose, you know, getting up at sixty m, lights off at nine. I get that would be useful, but I think that there is more to it. There is more that needs to be.

Yeah, one hundred percent agree. I think there needs to be more of a kind of a wrap around approach. We have to look at why these kids are breaking out, Why is the situation within those boot camps so untenable that they are breaking out? So, you know, perhaps if there was more of that sense of committing And obviously, you know, we've all not been in there and seen it firsthand, so we can't share that experience, that lived experience. But I think there's a real importance for a wrap around approach. I get there is merit in giving them a sense of schedule, a sense of purpose, you know, getting up at sixty m, lights off at nine. I get that would be useful, but I think that there is more to it. There is more that needs to be.

Done, absolutely, I think, and I think too when it comes to the way that this is presented, I feel like everyone kind of needs to who's involved in this, needs to get in a room together, find the good news stories out of this, out of these boot camps, and prevent presenting that information as well, because something tells me that this particular story isn't going to go anywhere in a hurry. I think it's going to be around for a week or two. And look, something else that caught my attention this week is the reliance on the bank of mum and dad. And a Keiwi bank commissioned a survey of two thousand and eight national representatives. They responded and they found that thirty four percent of homeowners said that they receive financial help from family to buy their first home, which is quite a lot of people requiring this help. And I just think this is going to be hugely problematic. One because it means that mum and Dad are going to need to have wealth beyond their own retirement needs, which can be quite difficult at times. And two, I think that you know, for those who aren't able to get that help, they're just going to leave the country yet.

Done, absolutely, I think, and I think too when it comes to the way that this is presented, I feel like everyone kind of needs to who's involved in this, needs to get in a room together, find the good news stories out of this, out of these boot camps, and prevent presenting that information as well, because something tells me that this particular story isn't going to go anywhere in a hurry. I think it's going to be around for a week or two. And look, something else that caught my attention this week is the reliance on the bank of mum and dad. And a Keiwi bank commissioned a survey of two thousand and eight national representatives. They responded and they found that thirty four percent of homeowners said that they receive financial help from family to buy their first home, which is quite a lot of people requiring this help. And I just think this is going to be hugely problematic. One because it means that mum and Dad are going to need to have wealth beyond their own retirement needs, which can be quite difficult at times. And two, I think that you know, for those who aren't able to get that help, they're just going to leave the country yet.

Well, there's a couple of things in there. The good news is that two thirds of homeowners haven't used the bank of mum and dad. And what's important to just understand is it's not always parents giving a boatload of cash to their kids. What often happens is that mum and dad own their own house, they take up a small top up mortgage against their property and then either gift or loan that to their kids. So it's not like it's just people with boatloads of cash. It can also be just normal people who own their own home, have paid off a bit of the mortgage and then are using that equity to help their kids out. A couple of other important stats, just to pick up buying a first home in New Zealand, the statistics are going really well at the moment. In fact, as a proportion of the market, first home buyers have never been so active in the market right now. They are the number one buying group out there with over a quarter of properties per just over the last three months we buy first home buyers and at the last sentence we actually saw home ownership increase, so it's not all a bad news story for KI. We first home buyers at the.

Well, there's a couple of things in there. The good news is that two thirds of homeowners haven't used the bank of mum and dad. And what's important to just understand is it's not always parents giving a boatload of cash to their kids. What often happens is that mum and dad own their own house, they take up a small top up mortgage against their property and then either gift or loan that to their kids. So it's not like it's just people with boatloads of cash. It can also be just normal people who own their own home, have paid off a bit of the mortgage and then are using that equity to help their kids out. A couple of other important stats, just to pick up buying a first home in New Zealand, the statistics are going really well at the moment. In fact, as a proportion of the market, first home buyers have never been so active in the market right now. They are the number one buying group out there with over a quarter of properties per just over the last three months we buy first home buyers and at the last sentence we actually saw home ownership increase, so it's not all a bad news story for KI. We first home buyers at the.

Moment, No, not at all, Willemina. So right, we've seeing house prices fall a bit, affordability measures have improved a little bit, and as you say, there's lots of first home buyers out there, but it's still clearly you've got all these good conditions will mean, but clearly people still need some help.

Moment, No, not at all, Willemina. So right, we've seeing house prices fall a bit, affordability measures have improved a little bit, and as you say, there's lots of first home buyers out there, but it's still clearly you've got all these good conditions will mean, but clearly people still need some help.

Yeah, one hundred percent. And I was googling around this morning and just trying to find sort of the average facts and figures and around, you know, the kind of average salary of a New Zealander sort of around sixty five thousand dollars was the most recent figures I could find. It might be slightly higher than that. Whereas the average house price, although it's fallen down, it's stabilized. It's really good news. It's still just shy of a million in terms of national figures. Which if you're looking at basing that on a twenty percent house deposit, especially if you're single and you're buying it on your own, you can see why people are sort of getting a bit of a hand up from their parents. I don't think there's anything wrong with mum and dad helping you into your first home, especially if at the other end that maybe you're helping them in their older years. But I think it becomes a problem when there's a massive reliance or an expectation in that. Like Ed was saying, there are you know, lots of other options. Obviously lots of situations it's alone you pay your parents back, but there's also other things to explore, like the concept of co ownership. So going in and actually buying a property with your parents. They're not giving you the money, they're not loaning you the money, but they have a stake in that equity. So there are ways that it can actually be done fairly. But honestly, I admire all the people, especially people who are buying on their own, who are able to do it without any help. Props to them because it's no easy feat.

Yeah, one hundred percent. And I was googling around this morning and just trying to find sort of the average facts and figures and around, you know, the kind of average salary of a New Zealander sort of around sixty five thousand dollars was the most recent figures I could find. It might be slightly higher than that. Whereas the average house price, although it's fallen down, it's stabilized. It's really good news. It's still just shy of a million in terms of national figures. Which if you're looking at basing that on a twenty percent house deposit, especially if you're single and you're buying it on your own, you can see why people are sort of getting a bit of a hand up from their parents. I don't think there's anything wrong with mum and dad helping you into your first home, especially if at the other end that maybe you're helping them in their older years. But I think it becomes a problem when there's a massive reliance or an expectation in that. Like Ed was saying, there are you know, lots of other options. Obviously lots of situations it's alone you pay your parents back, but there's also other things to explore, like the concept of co ownership. So going in and actually buying a property with your parents. They're not giving you the money, they're not loaning you the money, but they have a stake in that equity. So there are ways that it can actually be done fairly. But honestly, I admire all the people, especially people who are buying on their own, who are able to do it without any help. Props to them because it's no easy feat.

Oh look, thank you both so much. No, I don't think. I don't think parents are handing handing out money and goingre go, go for it. I think there's is there absolutely loans or gifts or it's coming through a trust and various things like that. Thank you both so much. Ed McKnight and Wilhelmina Shrimpton.

Oh look, thank you both so much. No, I don't think. I don't think parents are handing handing out money and goingre go, go for it. I think there's is there absolutely loans or gifts or it's coming through a trust and various things like that. Thank you both so much. Ed McKnight and Wilhelmina Shrimpton.

For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio