Episode 7: Richard Osman, Mea Motu and Miriam Margoyles

Published Jan 12, 2025, 8:13 PM

In this episode of Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, British comedian and author Richard Osman talks starting a new novel series and his take on the comedy scene. 

Boxer Mea Motu had a massive 2024 - so she joined Francesca to chat her year and what is driving her to succeed. 

And the ever delightful and surprising Miriam Margoyles toured New Zealand in early 2024 - and she had a delightful chat with Francesca. 

Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin brings you the best interviews from Newstalk ZB's The Sunday Session. 

Listen on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. 

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You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin from News Talks ATB. The big names, the fascinating guests, the thoughtful conversations, bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, powered by News Talks.

Ab HI and Welcome to the summer edition of Great Chats. I'm Francisca Rudkin and in this podcast we bring you some of the best feature interviews from the Sunday Session on News Talks EDB throughout twenty twenty four. First Up Today, author and TV personality Richard Osmond, author of the Thursday Murder Club book series, which have been a huge hit ten million copies sold worldwide. Kind of hit. This year though, he put the Thursday Murder Club on hold to start a new series called We Solve Murders, which was a big move. So we started the conversation talking about why he decided to start a new after four books, You've put Thursday Murder Club series on whole to right resolve murders. Why the break? Did you just need a break?

No, God, not at all. I think I think readers occasionally need a break. I think, you know, I'm going to be writing for the next twenty five years, so at some point you have to introduce a new world to readers. You have to introduce new characters to readers, and you know that's what I'm doing here. Thursday Murder Club will be back in twenty twenty five, but in the meantime, I've got this wonderful raft of new characters who I think and I hope people will also fall in love with.

I'm sure they will. Was it quite refreshing, though, for you to do something different to develop these new characters.

I don't know really.

For the first couple of weeks, I really felt like I was cheating on the Thursday Murder Club.

I felt terribly guilty.

And then I've reasoned with myself that the Thursday Murder Club still exists in this world.

They're just up the road.

They're just putting their feet up after a tough few years. And as soon as I in love with these new characters, Steve and Amy and Rosie, everything was, everything was golden from that moment onwards.

A different book, but there add little similarities. I think, you know, it's absolutely going to appeal to your fans, isn't it. There are some similarities between the series in this book.

Yeah, listen, I think so much, as I'd like to say, I've written, you know, an extraordinary new piece of experimental fiction. Anyone who likes the Thursday Murder Club books, I think, is going to love this. It's got the same written wisdom and warmth and all of that kind of stuff. It's just on a broader canvas. It's likely more globe trotting than Thursday Murder Club has done. But yeah, you would not mistake it for anyone else's writing. I think once you got through the first few pages, I.

Did hear that Steve, one of the one of the main characters, might be slightly inspired by yourself and the fact that you're a bit of a reluctant traveler.

Yes, I wanted to write something that was globe trotting, and I thought to myself, who would who would it be funniest for me to send around the world? And I thought the best person would be someone who really, really really doesn't want to go around the world, and that's Steve. Steve lives in a beautiful village in Hampshire in the south of England. In the New Forest. All he wants to do really is stay home with his cat Trouble, and he wants to do the pub queers, and he wants to hang out with his mates. And essentially, his daughter in law is a bodyguard for billionaires and all she wants to do is go around the world.

And she gets into trouble.

Someone is targeting her and she owes only one person she can trust, that's Steve, so she sends for him. And suddenly, poor Steve has to leave behind this quiet life and fly around the world on private jets to much to his disappointment.

I have to say, I'm not sure if you're at the private jet stage yet, but is that you are? You a reluctant traveler.

A little bit. I like it when I am somewhere.

I don't like the transitional period between being at home and being somewhere abroad. That's the bit I hate. I'm happy at home. If I end up somewhere else, I'm okay. But yeah, buy in line. I don't want to go to airports, so I don't want to be on planes. I don't want to in my brain, I don't like to do new things, and I kind of do but I wanted to have somebody having this incredibly luxurious world around him and all the time just thinking, oh god, I need to get home for Tuesday, because that's the pub quiz.

I do have to hit you up on a night though. Regarding tripling, because you went to Australia last year, you came all the way to Australia. We adjusted, We adjust a tiny hop across the tasmany disappointed you did not make it.

Tell me about it, you were disappointed. One of my great ambitions is to come to New Zealand, right I think I think British people are in love with New Zealand because it has you know, it feels exhaustic and far away, but it has a familiarity. You know, if we've been to Scotland, we feel like New Zealand is this extraordinarily exciting and you know, a tropical version of Scotland.

Yeah. I went to Australia. I could only do a week.

I honestly, like all British people, I thought New Zealand was like half an hour on the plane from Sydney. When I discovered it wasn't, I thought, okay, if I'm going to do New zeither that I don't want to turn up for a day. If I want to do New Zealand, I'm going to come for a month, see everything, see everybody.

Very cool. Yeah, you've always written. Most of your work has, of course being on TV, and it wasn't until you were almost fifty that you started releasing these novels. Do you think that time and that life experience, you know, was actually helpful when it came to you know, these books, these books. Do you think that if you'd been writing these books, say, in your twenties, there would have been quite a different thing.

I do think that. Yeah. I mean, listen, there are some there are people who write.

Brilliant books in their twenties, you know, Sally Rooney, Martin Amos, that there are people who can do it. I think if I'd written a book in my twenties, it might have been a bit more glib, you know, I'm sure it would have been. You know, I could have written something funny and written a murder mystery. But I think I hope that life and lived experience allows me to write a book that resonates more with people, and I can write about things I wouldn't have been able to do and I've been through all sorts of things, so yeah, I think that my brain was looking after me. And every time I started a novel over the years, I think my brain was saying, You've got to wait your turn, young man, and you've got to wait until actually you've got something to say.

Has the book success sort of turned your career a little bit? I mean, is this kind of what you're mostly doing these days?

Yeah, it's funny, you know what.

Weirdly, being a TV presenter was the with blip in my life because I've always been a writer, and then I became a completely accidental television presenter and a completely accidental famous person in the UK. And actually, writing is my love. Writing is the thing that I've always done. So this is actually, this is one hundred percent me. If I look back across my whole career, if anyone wants to know who I am, if anyone wants to know where my heart is and what I know about the world, it's in the books. That is one hundred percent me. And everything in life happens for a reason. But I'm very glad I've lived life in the order that I have.

You're right, incredibly strong, intricate, characters, where do they come from? What do you want in a character?

Well, to me, I know I write in the genre of crime fiction, and people sort of always think about plots and always think about where do you get your ideas? And for me, books are all character. That's the only thing I'm interested in. Really, It's not what happens in the book, it's why do I care what happens in the book? Why am I going to follow the story? So everything for me starts with character. So you know, if I start a book, I'm not thinking, Oh, what could happen, what could be the murder, what could be the twist? I'm thinking, who am my protagonists here? What's their relationship with each other? Why do they love each other? What differences do they have with each other? And when I start writing a book, I just write conversations between characters until I work them out, until suddenly people say something. So in this book, I've got Steve Wheeler, the ex cop, and I've got his daughter in law, which I thought was a fun relationship, and I thought, right, I'm going to find out a little bit about this daughter in law, Amy, who's a bodyguard, so she has to have a client at the start of the book, I thought, I'll give her a like a no like a Jackie Collins type novelist. So she's looking after this woman called Rosie D'Antonio on a private island in South Carolina, and I thought, I'll just write a conversation between the two of them.

And I'm trying to find out about.

Amy when I'm doing this, and she's having this conversation with Rosie, who is of indeterminate age but certainly was around in the Hollywood of the seventies and eighties, so she certainly has a certain vintage. She's always got a martini in her hand, of mischief in her eyes. And when I finished that, just a bit of dialogue, this one little chapter, I thought, Rosie has got to also be It was going to be a two parter. Now this book is a three part and that's what I love about character. That's what I love about citing books is find the characters. Find the characters, and then follow them and plot can follow. But everything is do I care about these people.

Some people think that mixing crime and comedy it's not a natural peering. I mean, I think that comedy can be mixed with absolutely anything, but I think it's really hard to get the balance right. And you get the balance right, but that's hard, Yes.

It really is, and I'm exactly like you as a lifelong crime fiction fan. There's a few people who could even do it. Chris Brickman, I can do it, Carl Arson and the States can do it. But I don't really like it so much when there are jokes in crime but takes me out of the story. And so right from the start of the two Murder clu I thought, whatever you do, don't make this funny. I just thought, absolutely, don't do it. But my career has been comedy. That's the way my brain works, its first port of call. So the rule I made for myself was the characters can be funny. The author is not allowed to be funny. So if there's anything that's making you laugh, it's the characters, and there are interactions with each other and that the situations they find themselves in. I hope at no point you're thinking, oh, that's the author trying to be funny. That's the author making a joke, because it takes you out of the story. So set myself that rule early on, which is anything funny that happens is down to the characters, and I keep myself out of it.

That's how I try and make that balance.

It works. Let's talk about the Netflix adaptation, because it's quite incredible the group of people that have come on board to pull us off. You've got Steven Spielberg, You've got Chris Columbus is writing and directing it. You've got the most incredible cast. So that what is it like handing it over? What is it like handing over to people of this kind of caliber?

Well, yes, exactly those That question is absolutely right to be a two parter because obviously, when you have to hand it over, unless you're going to be in charge of the whole thing yourself, you have to hold it at arm's length.

You have to see, I've done my bit, which is right the book. I have to let someone else have some fun now.

But when you hand it over to people of that caliber, and Chris Columbus is just the nicest man you'll ever meet in your entire life. And then Chris says, oh that Helen Mirren's going to do it, You're like okay, And then old Sir Ben Kingsley has joined up. See there, Imri is this per Piers Brosna, isn't there. You just think, well, look, I know I'm holding this at arm's length, but I feel like I'm in safe hands. So I've been down to the set a few times and you know, they make me very welcome and that's lovely. But seeing that incredible group of people doing their job is wonderful and I just I'm honestly, I'm watching from the outside and waiting, Like all fans of the book, I'm just waiting to see what they do with it and what the film's like. But it's some Yeah, you sort of sit there and Pierce Bosn and it ambles over and starts chatting to you, and you think, well, this is this is an unusual Tuesday.

You've had a lot of involvement in television in the UK, the media and New Zealanders and all sorts of trouble. Some companies have made capbex one Nick Mooks has adopted some entire news division. Who You're talking about the BBC and its financial woes on your podcast. What is the situation like in the UK? Is the media struggling?

Yeah, it's the same.

Really, Well, do you know what It's interesting when we say the media is struggling, because what we actually mean is the media as we understand it from where we were when we grew up, is struggling. So you know, I grew up in an environment and lots and lots of your listeners would have grown up environment where you've got your free to air television and you've got your regular channels, and you know, everything is scheduled. And that was our childhood, that was our teenage years, that's our twenties. So that's what we understand by media that is definitely going. So all those big older legacy companies and those big legacy broadcasters, they're in trouble because advertisers have found easier ways to reach people, and without those advertisers that the ecosystem doesn't work. So I think media, funnily enough, creativity and content has probably never been in a better place because there's lots and lots of ways for people to enter the industry to create content. But that thing that is in our heart, which is sitting down with our family or friends watching something that the rest of our country is watching at the same time, and then talking about it the next day, that is something that's going to disappear and it's tremendously sad for us. It's certainly tremendously sad for people who work in those legacy industries. But I think it's inevitable, and I think it does get replaced with something interesting, and it will get replaced with.

Something There is more work to do.

But you know, if you worked on the steam trains just before the electric trains came in, there's not a huge amount that you can do about it. It's the truth, other than you know, try and you know, learn how electric trains work.

Richard just finally Thursday Murder Club characters. It's great to hear. We'll be back in twenty twenty five. But I suppose the one issue about writing about people in a retirement village and of the sucon age is that how long can they last? So does that sort of tear up your heartstrings a bit? Because you've created these characters that people really really love. I mean, they can go on for ever. But I wonder if it ever crosses your mind.

Yeah, I do think.

Yeah, that's if I made any misstep here, it's to start a series with protagonists in their late seventies and early eighties.

I think that I try and pack.

An awful lot in So the first four books sort of take place sort of across a year, really, and I'll continue to do that. I'm also banking on the fact that readers and myself can enter into a little contract with each other, which is we can slow down the aging process a little bit.

But you're absolutely right.

I can't be writing about them in twenty years time, but there's plenty of life in them yet.

I will say that.

But you make a very valid point, and don't think it's not something that's kept me awake at night before.

Now the biggest names from the Sunday Station Great Chats with brand Shiska Rudgin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks.

It'd be an incredibly likable man. That was Richard Osmond has book series at The Thursday Murder Club and we solve murders. As of recording this podcast, a release date for the Netflix adaptation of The Thursday Murder Club hasn't been released yet, but hopefully it will be out in twenty twenty five. The cool thing about my job is getting to meet fast seating people, and I loved meeting me and Mottu this year. One of my Guilty Pleasures is Celebrity Treasure Island, No judgment, thank you. And Mia was a contestant this year, which was a great excuse to get her in the studio to talk about reality TV boxing, dealing with what life throws at you, and giving back. Here is my interview with me and Mottu. We started out talking about CTI were you a bit of a reluctant contestant for Celebrity Treasure Island?

I don't know.

Did they have to twist your arm to do it?

Kind of?

Yes? Yeah, okay, so you were? You were sort of? I'm not so had you ever seen the season? Have you ever seen the show?

Oh?

Yeah, I watched the last show because of Tudio and Tommy.

Yes. Oh good, So you kind of knew what you were getting into.

Not really. I just watched little bits of episodes of it, like snippets, but never.

Watched the full show.

So I watched the Games Room as funny as but I had no idea what was it about to happen?

Oh that is That's brilliant and maybe a good way to go into it, because it is quite an experience, isn't it.

Yeah, it is.

It's definitely an experienced definitely challenging, and definitely I thought reality TV was just like, you know, you only do it when the TV's on.

I love it, I love it, But actually you were expected to do things quite often all the time, you know, like you're just yeah, they're telling you what you have to do, and you have to do it.

And yeah, we're constantly on the go, and it's like you're never resting.

It's like the only time you rest is when they're gone. And as that nighttime, Oh.

My god, what did you think? So what did you think it would be like? Did you have any idea what it would be like?

I thought it would just be like one game a day, Yeah, and then we get to chill and have fun and news a proper toilet in the shower.

But no, it wasn't like that. And I thought, oh, yeah, off the screen is.

We can eat normal food.

But no, so it was rare.

So that is really interesting. So what we see is what we get that you don't get to go and spend the night in a motel and use a shower or a toilet. Were you are is where you are until you leave.

Yeah, it's definitely you're sleeping on those horrible bunks and it's freezing cold.

But you were quite surprised, like people really did struggle a little bit with the conditions.

Yeah, it was like adapting to the conditions and like the new environment was very different and we had to late. Literally, we're staying with these people twenty four to seven and we've got no phone.

No communication.

We don't even know that the time is because we're not allowed to know.

There's some quite strong personalities in this season. I can't wait for the season. It looks so good. How did you find that sort of getting to know all these people and trying to play the game against them.

Oh, I found it quite amazing, Like I got to know everyone and on a personal note, but also on just being on the island, because that's that's what you've got, is your team, and you're not allowed to communicate with anyone else. You can't even communicate with the other team. You can't even communicate with the people behind the scenes. You're only allowed to communicate with your team. So that was very challenging, but also at the same time, it was really nice because I got to know them on a whole other level and it built like a family vibe.

Because they were I was left with.

And you know, there was different definitely different personalities. It was like there was clashing. But for me, I was more of a supporter and encouraging and I just wanted to give everything to go and I wanted to get to know everybody because it was definitely out of my comfort zone because I struggled to trust people. So it gave me a new motivation to be like, Okay, let's get out of your comfort zone and let's get to know these people for who they are.

Oh, good on you, Good on you. How'd you find the physical challenges that they throw at you?

Oh?

I love the physical challenges. They were my most funest. Like I was the one that always wanted to give everything a go. I was just like I didn't really care about winning or losing.

I care.

All I cared about was giving one hundred percent.

And that's something that you're going to do on October the twenty sixth, aren't you. This is so exciting that you're able to challenge England's Alie Scottney for these titles. How excited are you?

Oh?

I'm so excited.

I can't wait.

I'm like itching inside me and I want to burst and explode, and I'm just it's finally here.

I was laughing once was talking just before we came on here. When I mentioned it, you just couldn't stand still. You're just moving the whole time. So what do you do?

Now?

How do you go about preparing for a fight like this?

So I've got to go overseas because there's just there's no sparring or anything here. For me, it's quite hard and everyone I just don't have that support here where overseas, I've got more of a challenge for spirring and it will definitely benefit me and up build my skills and stuff. So that's the must challenging. So I was quite stressed at the start. As soon as I found out that I was fighting, I was quite stressed and very upset and emotional because I was just full of joy and pride. But at the same time, I was like, how am I going to get there? Because we literally have to do this all on our own and come from our own pocket.

So that was a stressful thing. But I'm lucky.

I've got a lot of people who I reached out to and are willing to support and back me. So I've got sponsors that are willing to sponsor me. But it ain't easy because you know that's the hardest. But it is trying to get overseas and trying to get sparring.

And that's stressful, right, because you just want to focus on the fight as you do. Right, that's what you want to focus on, But unfortunately you know you don't have that. You can't. You've got to be thinking about everything. Is this your biggest fight yet?

Yes? This is my biggest fight.

Do want to put the pressure on, but it really is. I mean, this could be a historic opportunity.

One hundred percent.

That's all I've wanted is I've always wanted to unify and be undisputed, and I want to I want to be that one that breaks the records.

So how do you then keep the magnitude of this opportunity kind of in check? How do you just focus on the fight.

I've just got a good I've got a good team. Yeah, I've got a really amazing coach and a manager who really just always keeps.

Me in line and on check.

And I have great family who just help me with my children and they just allow me to focus on my sport. But it's challenging because sometimes I've got to work and try to juggle it all together.

But we make it happen and I find ways.

When you get to England, this is going to be huge this fight. There's going to be so much publicity around it. You know, the fights themselves are these huge events and things. Is that distracting or do you enjoy that? Do you enjoy walking into that environment?

I love it. I enjoy walking into that environment.

Like I'm already prepared and my focus is only the fight, so you know, I you know, I allow all the publicity just to come and I know that's part of being an athlete, So it doesn't bother me as long as I don't lose focus off the fight.

And then when you're in the ring, you know, obviously there's going to be a lot of support there for Ali. But that doesn't phase you either, does it.

No, that doesn't phase me because I definitely been an overseas and already had that. But I just focus on me, and you know, the people that are foreign criticism, I just smile away because you know, a dangerous fighter is happy fighter.

Miya, You've had the most incredible journey to get to where you are and the success that you've you know that you've earned. What do you want people to take from your journey? You know, I know that you've been a victim of violence, You've you've been homeless, you're you know, you've got your kids and things. What do you want people to take from what you've managed to do?

I want people to know that no matter what walk or life you come from, you are great. You are amazing, You are beautiful and have a voice. That's what I want people to know. And you know, look at me and be like whatever, I've been through that walk and it doesn't matter how bad you walk, you can always get up and how badly are you willing to fight? So that's it's a determination, and I refuse to say no. I'll always challenge myself. If someone says I can't, I'll be like, oh well, I'll prove you wrong.

And as long as I give it a go, that's greatness.

Because it's really brief thing. So times to say yes to things, even when life is okay and good. Yeah, it's really hard to do it when things are a bit tough, isn't it?

It is?

And it's just for me.

I just want to normalize that it's okay not to be okay?

Yeah, it really is.

How have you got to where you are? Who has helped you get to where you are?

My big guess help and support has to be my coach, Isaac Peach and Alena Peach. They're definitely supported me back to me and they have allowed me to be me. My coach tells me all the time, you change for nobody, you be you, and I've always held that and I'll always remain me.

What do you love about boxing?

What I love about boxing is that it's very challenging, but also it's taught me how to walk life. You know, It's built confidence, it's helped me with my mental health, and the biggest thing is it's really opened the door for what.

I I rarely want to chase.

And that's funny for our next generation, allowing our kids to have a voice and they're normalizing that it's okay not to be okay for our kids, you know, giving that opportunity for our kids to be who they are. We're always trying to put these expectations on our children when really we're not actually listening to them and allowing them to be what they want to be and who they want to be. Allow them to be their identity and be true to who they are and support them in that.

It's we get so fixated and what.

We want for them instead of what they want for themselves.

And that's my biggest congregation.

Yeah. Absolutely, And what about just boxing in general? Is it is it growing as women's boxing growing in New Zealand.

It's slowly growing in New Zealand.

Woman's boxing not as quick as what I thought it would be, but it is slowly growing. But overseas it's a lot more bigger boxing, you know. So it's a lot bigger overseas, but I'd love it to grow here. You I don't even want women to be fighters. I just want them to have self love in self care where boxing, and that's what boxing gives. It's a it's a safe place to lash your anchor and cut of control.

It bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday session. Great chats with Francesca Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks at be Me and Wotwo.

There so inspiring and you can hear that passion, can't you When she talks about boxing. You should have seen her face light up when we started talking about boxing and she just couldn't sit still. Things did not go according to plan for me this year, though, but watch the space. I still believe the best is yet to come when it comes to her boxing career. My last guest on the podcast today is the delightfully naughty Miriam Maugles, known for her many characters on the screen, most famously Professors Sprout in the Harry Potter movie, and many of you will have witnessed her honest and quite outrageous interviews on talk shows. She toured New Zealand early in twenty twenty four and we had a chat about all sorts of things, including bad Jelly, the witch of all things. Here is my interview with Miriam maglees. Where are you in the country at the moment? Here in New Zealand at.

The moment, I'm in a hotel in Elleslie, which I'm enjoying very much, and I'm with my cousin Carol, and I'm very fond of her, and really that's why I came this week. But I also have managed to do some work that's exciting because I'm a voice actress as well as a proper actress and I've been doing the voice of Bad Jelly, which is a very important and much loved children's series.

Very exciting. I mean, I think we all. I still have my copy of Bad Jelly that I had as a child. Such a loved story, isn't it.

Well, I didn't know anything about it until I was asked to do it, because I think it's something that maybe New Zealand as and Australians know, but I didn't know when I was little. But then I grew up on Enid Blyton and that sort of thing in nineteen forty one, in the early forties. But it's delightful and it's it's kind of good. You know, it's worthy. It's not it's not defiling or corrupting. There is a sweetness and an energy, and she's not everybody's cup of tea bag Jelly. She's quite naughty, of course, and I like that. I respond to that.

When I heard you were playing the part, I did think that you had been perfectly cast.

Well I think so too. As it happens.

Let's talk about your live show. Of course, you're coming back in March for Miriam Live. Tell me about the show. Of course, it's based off the book as well in the memoir.

Yes, it is a book tour, I suppose, and I will just come on stage. I will be interviewed by somebody clever, and then it's thrown open to the audience and they can ask me any questions they like about anything at all, even you might say, inappropriate subjects, and I shall tell them the truth. I'll tell them the extent of my activities, both upright and lying down.

Telling the truth is and being honest and being genuine is something that you're well known for. It's something that we appreciate so much. Do we do it enough?

Now? Of course we don't do it enough. And it's appalling that I should be one of very few people who seem to do it. Everybody used to do it. When I was little, it was very important. My parents said, you must never lie. You can't do business with people who lie. And yet all the major politicians of the world lives in their bottoms. It's absolutely shocking. So if I can reverse the trend of liars, I would have done a very good deed.

Is it important to be authentic for you personally? But it's just as you say, it's who you are, where you come from.

I think it's important, but I don't think I cannot be authentic. I don't know how to be anything else than I am, and I don't see the point. I want people to know what I'm really like, who I really am, just as I want to know about you and your listeners, what are they like, what do they want out of the world. It's a natural thing to be oneself, and I'm glad I'm confident enough in myself to be myself. I mean, some people, perhaps they lack confidence, and I want to be able to give people confidence. But I keep being asked to be an agony aunt now and kind of advise people. And I'm not qualified to advise anybody about anything, but I think I can say, believe in yourself and share it.

But you've lived such a life, Mariam, haven't. You were so many experts. I can totally understand why somebody sees take some of that knowledge, take that wisdom, take that experience, and being agny at.

It's quite flattering because when I was much younger, people used to say, as the title of my book, oh Mary, as if I was, you know, shocking and behaving badly, which I still do, of course, And I have to admit that. But I've never hurt anybody. I've never killed anybody. I've never damaged anybody. I don't want to make people feel small. I want to build the well.

Oh.

I want them to be happy, because happiness is rare and valuable and we should try to increase the sum of it in the world. But most people, not most people that you know, most politicians, and what I'm saying, most politicians don't make life better for us. They make it worse, and that I can't accept. So I do speak out about politicians.

Because you're often described as a bit naughty and that word shocking. But what strikes me is, as you just mentioned there is it's harmless shock. You're not a shock shock going for a cheap joke at the expense of other people, or hamming other people or offending. It's always comes from you know. The shock is often you sharing your story. Honestly, it's you know, the joke is on you as oppose on other people. And that's that's become sort of a fine line that we're not quite so good at nailing these days.

I believe what you say is true, and I hope so because that's what I want. I don't want to expose other people. I want to expose myself, and some people would rather I didn't. I can understand that.

Too, and you certainly have at times.

Yes, but breasts are okay. What's wrong with breasts? I don't think they're offensive. And in fact, one of the things I've been asked to do is to write an extra chapter for Oh Miriam for the paperback version of is coming out in July, because I've just been fitted for a bra and I've never been fitted for a bra before. I used to just you know, pick one off the shelf, so to speak. But there's a there's a shop in London called Rigby and Pella, which is where the Late Queen used to buy her bras, and we're very large ladies or ladies who've had a mostectomy or some breast operation go to be fitted and sorted. And I've always had breasts that were just too much to deal with and I hope them into whatever bra I could get older. But I've been to a place that really takes trouble over your bra and it's a completely different experience.

And has it been life changing having a welfated bra?

I think it's been breast changing, but I don't that life changing. I shall have to see.

I love the fact that I think I'm right eighty two years of age. You're still having new experiences.

Well, yes, of course, and I think it's important to have new experiences. They're not always terrific ones. I mean, I'm developing arthritis. Never had that before, so that's thing I'm learning about. But suddenly your body doesn't do what you used to be able to do with it, and I don't like that bit of it. But growing old is a process, so let's see what happens. And I'm going to keep being massaged all the time I want. I'm going to every town I go in on my tour, I'm going to get a good massage.

So the body is sort of throng a few yeah, sort of speed bumps into the works. But you seem to be still so incredibly busy with work. Obviously you like being busy.

Oh, I do like being busy. It's a privilege. I just wish that my success. I'm so late in life. I could have done with it a bit earlier, but never mind, it's come now, and I'm saving the money for cares because I will need careers, and I don't really want to go into a home, but there are a couple of homes that I've checked out and me and my partner will go there. I want to be with her as much as possible. I've been very lucky because I found when I was about twenty seven, I found somebody I wanted to spend my life and we have fifty four years. And that's pretty special because, as I always say, life is sweeter shared.

Absolutely, you spend quite a lot of time in Australia as well, don't you.

I do. I am an Australian. I became an Australian. I should have become a New Zealander, but I didn't know.

It's okay, that's okay. We would love to have had to you. But you do spend a bit of time there as well. Will that continue?

Oh yes, I hope so, because it's it's a big and interesting country. And I have a very good house there which I share with my partner and her sister actually, and we love it. I love it's the Southern Highlands, and that was because of Babe, because that was the first place I went to work and make a film, and I really enjoyed that. It's beautiful. But my word, A New Zealand is much more beautiful than Australia, There's no question about that. A variety of it is amazing.

You're too kind, just going back to doing things. For the first time, I saw last year that you graced the cover of a Vogue magazine. Was that the first time that it happened?

Well, of course it was, and that it was Gay Pride, and I'm you know, I'm a well known lesbian. I suppose I can say that without without upsetting people. And they wanted to put a well known lesbian on the cover, so they had me. I never expected to be on the cover of Vote. But you know what, that photographer, Tim Walker, he's brilliant. He made me look pretty good, I thought. And I'm not a pretty face. I'm not pretty, and I've got a body like an old sack. But you know what, he made me look pretty sprauncy, and I was thrilled. And it sold out that version of it, that that episode. It's not a television come, it's a magazine. That that issue sold out, So I'm pretty chucking myself about that.

I hope the hope they have you back. Also, just going back to this naughtiness, where did that come from? I believe it sort of came from your mother.

Well, it didn't come from Daddy, because he was a very you know, rather a tight lip, a rather shy man actually from Scotland, the sweet man. But mummy was. Yeah, I think mummy was a bit naughty, but not in a way that would cause comment in the way that my naughtonus causes comment. She wasn't sexually naughty, and she didn't swear, but she had a twinkle and she was outspoken, and I think I developed that a bit. I've always been naughty at school. I was naughty, and I liked being naughty. I liked putting out my hand and saying, please, miss Kay, what a testicle? Laughing Naughtally, I've just enjoyed it because I could see that if you said the word testicles, people look shopped. And I enjoyed that. Mind you, I don't say testicles very much anymore.

Well, I'm delighted that we've got both breasts and testicles in the interview today. If your mother could see you now, I read a few comments that you'd made that she might be a little displeased about some of the things that you say or do. What would she think of Miriam today?

She would love me whatever, because that was the kind of mum. She was all encompassing, all embracing, totally supporting. But she would make her feelings known that I was not behaving like a lady, and she always wanted to be to behave like a lady, and I never have.

There's quite a difference between saying to somebody I love you and saying I love you no matter what. Isn't there.

Mummy would say I love you no matter what, but try to take a pride in your appearance, and don't swear, and don't fart, and lift your head up and put your shoulders back. She was always trying to improve me, and I loved her and I still love her the best.

Guess from the Sunday session Great Jazz with Francesca Rudgin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks, it'd be.

That was Miriam my lease, inspiring us all to be a little bit more honest in our lives, maybe a little naughty and not let age stop you doing what you want to do. Hey, thank you for joining me on this Newstalk's IP podcast. Feel free to share these chats. If you like this podcast, make sure you follow us on iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget we're releasing two new EPs a week Mondays and Fridays throughout summer. I'll catch you next time on Great Chats.

For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen live to news talks it'd be from nine am Sunday, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

The Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin

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