You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests, the thoughtful conversations, bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, powered by News Talks EDB.

You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests, the thoughtful conversations, bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, powered by News Talks EDB.

Hi and welcome to the summer edition of Great Chats. I'm Francesca Rudkin and in this podcast, we're bringing some of the best feature interviews from the Sunday Session on news Talks EDB. Throughout twenty twenty four, Irish author Marian Keys released her sixteenth novel And twenty twenty four and she joined me to talk about why her books resonate with people, why people crave love stories, and the impact of quitting alcohol on her career. I started by asking her about the specific agenda she had when it came to writing her latest book, My Final Mistake.

Hi and welcome to the summer edition of Great Chats. I'm Francesca Rudkin and in this podcast, we're bringing some of the best feature interviews from the Sunday Session on news Talks EDB. Throughout twenty twenty four, Irish author Marian Keys released her sixteenth novel And twenty twenty four and she joined me to talk about why her books resonate with people, why people crave love stories, and the impact of quitting alcohol on her career. I started by asking her about the specific agenda she had when it came to writing her latest book, My Final Mistake.

Yes, I had planned to write a book about tricky people, difficult people, and when it came to doing it, I started about two years ago. We were just coming out of the pandemic and Russia had just invaded Ukraine and I thought I can't I can't write about people I'm afraid of, and I thought I would like to write a love story, because a love story is what I want to read, and I kind of I always write for myself, but I wanted to write a love story about people who are not nineteen, you know, or even twenty seven. I wanted people in middle age. And I want to write about two characters who had had several near misses over the course of twenty years, and they've hurt each other like you know, as human beings do to each other, and now they've ended up in the same place in the West of Ireland, and they're having to work together. And I was interested in how how we deal with relationships when we met a person from we were much younger, and that kind of picture of who they are has crystallized in our head and we have to realize they've changed. And also I was very interested in the idea of well, this came up a lot for me during lockdown of the things that I had done when I was younger that I really regretted, you know, things that I made decisions at the time that I thought were the best, but with retrospect, I realized that they were. I could have been kinder, I could have been more honest, I could have handled things with more compassion. And that is also part I think of like a long you know, a long relationship, you hurt a person, but you wouldn't do it now.

Yes, I had planned to write a book about tricky people, difficult people, and when it came to doing it, I started about two years ago. We were just coming out of the pandemic and Russia had just invaded Ukraine and I thought I can't I can't write about people I'm afraid of, and I thought I would like to write a love story, because a love story is what I want to read, and I kind of I always write for myself, but I wanted to write a love story about people who are not nineteen, you know, or even twenty seven. I wanted people in middle age. And I want to write about two characters who had had several near misses over the course of twenty years, and they've hurt each other like you know, as human beings do to each other, and now they've ended up in the same place in the West of Ireland, and they're having to work together. And I was interested in how how we deal with relationships when we met a person from we were much younger, and that kind of picture of who they are has crystallized in our head and we have to realize they've changed. And also I was very interested in the idea of well, this came up a lot for me during lockdown of the things that I had done when I was younger that I really regretted, you know, things that I made decisions at the time that I thought were the best, but with retrospect, I realized that they were. I could have been kinder, I could have been more honest, I could have handled things with more compassion. And that is also part I think of like a long you know, a long relationship, you hurt a person, but you wouldn't do it now.

So there was a lot.

So there was a lot.

There's yelts, there's regret, there's longing, there's love, you know, but it's all very parochial, if you get me. I wanted to keep the outside world out of this. I just wanted to be about human relationships, friendships, romances, family, community.

There's yelts, there's regret, there's longing, there's love, you know, but it's all very parochial, if you get me. I wanted to keep the outside world out of this. I just wanted to be about human relationships, friendships, romances, family, community.

It's interesting you say that you were writing what you needed at that moment, but actually I think that that was a very universal feeling, isn't it.

It's interesting you say that you were writing what you needed at that moment, but actually I think that that was a very universal feeling, isn't it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've subsequently discovered that, like people are craving love stories, you know, because like what we read goes through sort of phases, and you know, I mean I still read a lot of crime because I know it sounds weird, but like everything gets sorted out in a crime novel, well usually, and the same with love stories. You know, things get fixed, there is a happy ending of sorts. And you know, even before I had started throughout this, I'd been reading an awful lot of especially enemies, enemies to lovers just were they were doing it for me. And then when Curtis Sittingfeld wrote her book Romantic Comedy, it was like, hooray, we have the stamp of approval. If somebody is amazing as her is writing a I mean, obviously she could never write anything that was cliched, but the trope, the trope is a familiar one, and if it's okay by her, then it's okay for the rest of us to write it also. And you have the comfort, Like that's all I'm longing for is comfortable reads that keep the world at bay because the word is kind of sharp and pointy right now.

Yeah, I've subsequently discovered that, like people are craving love stories, you know, because like what we read goes through sort of phases, and you know, I mean I still read a lot of crime because I know it sounds weird, but like everything gets sorted out in a crime novel, well usually, and the same with love stories. You know, things get fixed, there is a happy ending of sorts. And you know, even before I had started throughout this, I'd been reading an awful lot of especially enemies, enemies to lovers just were they were doing it for me. And then when Curtis Sittingfeld wrote her book Romantic Comedy, it was like, hooray, we have the stamp of approval. If somebody is amazing as her is writing a I mean, obviously she could never write anything that was cliched, but the trope, the trope is a familiar one, and if it's okay by her, then it's okay for the rest of us to write it also. And you have the comfort, Like that's all I'm longing for is comfortable reads that keep the world at bay because the word is kind of sharp and pointy right now.

We shouldn't be snobby about what we read though, should wait, we should just help just Brice going, I need a bit of that, I need a bit of this. I love Romantic her book as well, Curtis's book as well, But it did kind of take me by surprise.

We shouldn't be snobby about what we read though, should wait, we should just help just Brice going, I need a bit of that, I need a bit of this. I love Romantic her book as well, Curtis's book as well, But it did kind of take me by surprise.

Isn't it interesting?

Isn't it interesting?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Because I will always defend the genre and say there's so much more to it, you know, than people give the credit for. And I also say that people should read whatever they want. But then when it comes to kind of defending our own work, it is a bit Oh, I don't know if I have the right to do this, which is nonsense.

Because I will always defend the genre and say there's so much more to it, you know, than people give the credit for. And I also say that people should read whatever they want. But then when it comes to kind of defending our own work, it is a bit Oh, I don't know if I have the right to do this, which is nonsense.

Of course, Am I correct that when you were studying law you used to read Mills and Boons books in the week.

Of course, Am I correct that when you were studying law you used to read Mills and Boons books in the week.

Yes, yes, yeah, I mean absolutely, like I'd spend the week, you know, learning about oh, you know, court cases and laws and accent the history of law. And then my tweet on a Saturday afternoon was to stay in bed and read one or two Mills and Boons. My mother was always getting them from the library, and they helped me so much. You know, it was light relief. It took my head into a place where, like I knew it was going to be okay. My worry was gone. I didn't have to worry about whatever had been worrying about, you know, about what I had learned or not learned more to the point during the week.

Yes, yes, yeah, I mean absolutely, like I'd spend the week, you know, learning about oh, you know, court cases and laws and accent the history of law. And then my tweet on a Saturday afternoon was to stay in bed and read one or two Mills and Boons. My mother was always getting them from the library, and they helped me so much. You know, it was light relief. It took my head into a place where, like I knew it was going to be okay. My worry was gone. I didn't have to worry about whatever had been worrying about, you know, about what I had learned or not learned more to the point during the week.

Yeah, it was such a.

Yeah, it was such a.

Pleasure, embrace the guilty pleasure the world.

Pleasure, embrace the guilty pleasure the world.

Well we must call it a guilty pleasure.

Well we must call it a guilty pleasure.

Yes, it's pleasure.

Yes, it's pleasure.

No, no, no, it's just a pleasure exactly.

No, no, no, it's just a pleasure exactly.

Fair call the Welsh family. They really do keep delivering, don't they. Your first even novel featured the Welsh family, And now this is I think book number eight, which features.

Fair call the Welsh family. They really do keep delivering, don't they. Your first even novel featured the Welsh family, And now this is I think book number eight, which features.

It, is it is?

It, is it is?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I mean I don't want to kind of scare away people who've never read any of them, because they are all standalone. Like I've written about Anna in one other book, but it was a long time ago and her life is very different now. But the dynamic of a big, loud, messy Irish family is something that I am very familiar with and that I really value, and I love bringing that to each subsequent Welsh novel. Even though this is Anna's story, the rest of them also all show up.

I mean I don't want to kind of scare away people who've never read any of them, because they are all standalone. Like I've written about Anna in one other book, but it was a long time ago and her life is very different now. But the dynamic of a big, loud, messy Irish family is something that I am very familiar with and that I really value, and I love bringing that to each subsequent Welsh novel. Even though this is Anna's story, the rest of them also all show up.

Is it your love of the family that keeps you writing about them? Or is it reader demand?

Is it your love of the family that keeps you writing about them? Or is it reader demand?

Oh?

Oh?

I mean, okay, I know this sounds arrogant, and I really don't mean it to be that way, but I can only write what I want to write. I think any writer who kind of tries to anticipate what readers wants is doing everyone a disservice. Any writer who tries to write what they think a market wants from them, Oh well, I can't. I can only speak to myself. I couldn't do it.

I mean, okay, I know this sounds arrogant, and I really don't mean it to be that way, but I can only write what I want to write. I think any writer who kind of tries to anticipate what readers wants is doing everyone a disservice. Any writer who tries to write what they think a market wants from them, Oh well, I can't. I can only speak to myself. I couldn't do it.

No.

No.

I I am very very connected to my own family. I have four siblings. My dad died five years ago, but my mother is still the most powerful woman on the planet. She is this tiny little matriarch. We are all terrified of her. I have nieces, I have nephews, My siblings have spouses. I like us all to be together, and I kind of feel uncomfortable if one of us is missing, when there's only seventeen of us instead of eighteen. I am almost fetishistic in my love of family. So I love writing about families. I love writing about Oh, you know, the way we're giving our identity within a family, and that remains unchanged. You know, you get it very early on, and like, I'm sixty now and I'm still that person. You know, I'm the I'm the I'm the bossy one, I'm the I'm the martyr, I'm the clipboard person who gets very angry if everyone is late.

I I am very very connected to my own family. I have four siblings. My dad died five years ago, but my mother is still the most powerful woman on the planet. She is this tiny little matriarch. We are all terrified of her. I have nieces, I have nephews, My siblings have spouses. I like us all to be together, and I kind of feel uncomfortable if one of us is missing, when there's only seventeen of us instead of eighteen. I am almost fetishistic in my love of family. So I love writing about families. I love writing about Oh, you know, the way we're giving our identity within a family, and that remains unchanged. You know, you get it very early on, and like, I'm sixty now and I'm still that person. You know, I'm the I'm the I'm the bossy one, I'm the I'm the martyr, I'm the clipboard person who gets very angry if everyone is late.

You know, we all have.

You know, we all have.

Our roles to play, and we sort of slip into them with each other, but we are We're more than the roles we give each other. But yeah, I love I love families. I love books about them. I love being in one.

Our roles to play, and we sort of slip into them with each other, but we are We're more than the roles we give each other. But yeah, I love I love families. I love books about them. I love being in one.

I did giggle when I read that your mother called her books philth She she received Woman Has, She received a copy of the lightest book is, she reported Beck, who thoughts it.

I did giggle when I read that your mother called her books philth She she received Woman Has, She received a copy of the lightest book is, she reported Beck, who thoughts it.

Yes, yes, she said, and you'll know what I'm well, people will know what I'm talking about when they've read that X changed an awful lot and became a much better person. And she also said it was very funny, which I appreciated. I mean, she is the great withholder of praise. She didn't actually say the magic words good girl, Marion, but I like to think it was implied.

Yes, yes, she said, and you'll know what I'm well, people will know what I'm talking about when they've read that X changed an awful lot and became a much better person. And she also said it was very funny, which I appreciated. I mean, she is the great withholder of praise. She didn't actually say the magic words good girl, Marion, but I like to think it was implied.

Oh wonderful. You record the audio books yourself. Do you enjoy doing that?

Oh wonderful. You record the audio books yourself. Do you enjoy doing that?

Yes? I love it.

Yes? I love it.

I've only started. This is just the third novel I've done in all these years, because I tried a long time ago with nonfiction and the technology was it basically if your stomach rumbled, you lost the morning's work. But it's all different now. And the only thing that I find horrific is saying the sex scenes, because it's a very intimate thing recording an audio Like it's just me and Roy the my producer, my sound engineer, my director, and like it's just me and him in this kind of very dark it's dark and sound proved space. But he's just really good at sort of he laughs, you know, he makes me laugh. But even saying the words out loud are kind of hard, and then I'm thinking, oh, why why did I.

I've only started. This is just the third novel I've done in all these years, because I tried a long time ago with nonfiction and the technology was it basically if your stomach rumbled, you lost the morning's work. But it's all different now. And the only thing that I find horrific is saying the sex scenes, because it's a very intimate thing recording an audio Like it's just me and Roy the my producer, my sound engineer, my director, and like it's just me and him in this kind of very dark it's dark and sound proved space. But he's just really good at sort of he laughs, you know, he makes me laugh. But even saying the words out loud are kind of hard, and then I'm thinking, oh, why why did I.

Why did I write this?

Why did I write this?

Oh?

Oh?

I love it.

I love it.

I can.

I can.

I can just imagine.

I can just imagine.

Your latest, your last book, the twenty twenty book grobbn Ups that has been picked up by Netflix, which is very exciting because I can I can just see this as a television series. Are you excited about that or is it a bit hard to kind of hand it over to a different medium and allow them to kind of take it and give it a different life.

Your latest, your last book, the twenty twenty book grobbn Ups that has been picked up by Netflix, which is very exciting because I can I can just see this as a television series. Are you excited about that or is it a bit hard to kind of hand it over to a different medium and allow them to kind of take it and give it a different life.

I'm really excited, Francesca.

I'm really excited, Francesca.

I'm really really excited, and I.

I'm really really excited, and I.

Don't mind at all handing it over because I know nothing about that world, and I'm really kind of curious to see who they'll cast. There's there was a very handsome young man in the book called Ferdia. There's been great excitement about who's going to get cast as Furdia. It's a really lovely I mean, it's a wonderful thing to happen, and it's not something that brings me any anxiety at all. It's just utter delight and real pride. Like I'm really honored by this, and I feel the people the production company seesaw they made they made Nine Perfect Strangers, one of the Leanne Mariarty books, and they also they also made Slow Horses. I don't know if you.

Don't mind at all handing it over because I know nothing about that world, and I'm really kind of curious to see who they'll cast. There's there was a very handsome young man in the book called Ferdia. There's been great excitement about who's going to get cast as Furdia. It's a really lovely I mean, it's a wonderful thing to happen, and it's not something that brings me any anxiety at all. It's just utter delight and real pride. Like I'm really honored by this, and I feel the people the production company seesaw they made they made Nine Perfect Strangers, one of the Leanne Mariarty books, and they also they also made Slow Horses. I don't know if you.

Oh my god, it's the best, isn't it? The utter and complete best? So I have so much faith in them. And they're going to film in Ireland, which I'm also thrilled about. So yeah, it's all lovely.

Oh my god, it's the best, isn't it? The utter and complete best? So I have so much faith in them. And they're going to film in Ireland, which I'm also thrilled about. So yeah, it's all lovely.

You were also honored recently by having a portrait painted, which now hangs in the National Art Gallery, which is it's a beautiful portrait. Were you happy with that?

You were also honored recently by having a portrait painted, which now hangs in the National Art Gallery, which is it's a beautiful portrait. Were you happy with that?

Yeah? Again, I had no expectations. I mean I was really surprised when they asked me. And I also felt that like the artist had to portray me however she saw me. So I didn't want to see any of the work in progress because I didn't want to try and influence it, because if I looked horrific, I mean obviously I would be like on my knees pleading with her, you know, to fix me, fix me, you know, give me the give me the makeover, give me a blow up. And so I was braced to look like you know, the Francis Bacon portraits that he did, Yes, like you know, call me a phillistine all you're like, but I would not call them flattering or you see, I have a really asymmetrical face, So I mean, I think at the best of times, I look like something from Picasso's Cubist period. And I was prepared to kind of look at myself and flint, but I was I was just thrilled, Like it's really not only do I look nice in it, but I feel like she got me. You know that there's a look in the eyes that I recognize of kind of, oh, this means mischief. You know that I'm trying to be serious, but I'm planning to say something inappropriate at annie second. The whole thing it was, it was just really I felt like, oh, I felt sort of like I have nothing left to prove if they're giving me this honor, Like it was a wonderful, wonderful thing.

Yeah? Again, I had no expectations. I mean I was really surprised when they asked me. And I also felt that like the artist had to portray me however she saw me. So I didn't want to see any of the work in progress because I didn't want to try and influence it, because if I looked horrific, I mean obviously I would be like on my knees pleading with her, you know, to fix me, fix me, you know, give me the give me the makeover, give me a blow up. And so I was braced to look like you know, the Francis Bacon portraits that he did, Yes, like you know, call me a phillistine all you're like, but I would not call them flattering or you see, I have a really asymmetrical face, So I mean, I think at the best of times, I look like something from Picasso's Cubist period. And I was prepared to kind of look at myself and flint, but I was I was just thrilled, Like it's really not only do I look nice in it, but I feel like she got me. You know that there's a look in the eyes that I recognize of kind of, oh, this means mischief. You know that I'm trying to be serious, but I'm planning to say something inappropriate at annie second. The whole thing it was, it was just really I felt like, oh, I felt sort of like I have nothing left to prove if they're giving me this honor, Like it was a wonderful, wonderful thing.

I mean, it is a very big honor, and it's it's a as you say, you've had this thirty year career, you are a national treasure and alan and yet I saw a photo of you get the hard copy of your latest book, and you looked as I've joyed and thrilled and grateful as you probably did when you got your first book. It was really lovely to say you don't take any of this for granted, right.

I mean, it is a very big honor, and it's it's a as you say, you've had this thirty year career, you are a national treasure and alan and yet I saw a photo of you get the hard copy of your latest book, and you looked as I've joyed and thrilled and grateful as you probably did when you got your first book. It was really lovely to say you don't take any of this for granted, right.

Oh, Like, I absolutely don't. I mean, I just say a couple of things. I mean, you in New Zealand have been very very good to me, and many of you will know that, Like, thirty years ago, I was miird and alcoholic drinking and I had just come out of rehab. And I so often think about what just how lucky I've been, just how incredibly fortunate I've been, you know, to be able to stop drinking, and like I was given so much help, and that everything that has happened to me is completely be a beyond what I could have imagined for myself. And I think, I mean, I do think it's important to stay grateful. But it's easy to stay grateful because I mean, I'm in London at the moment, and that was where I did the worst of my drinking. Every time I'm here, like, I'm happy to be here because it reminds me of you know, there's a parallel version, there's a ghost version of me walking the streets living a very different life, and the fact that I'm I felt so worthless and now that I'm allowed to write books that I enjoy writing and that I feel proud of and that other people enjoy reading. I just that is good fortune. I don't even have the words for it. How grateful and thrilled I am. And with every book that I write, I think, Okay, this is the one where it just you know, the wheels come off. I won't be able to finish it, and I'll just you know, I will disappear into egno me. So the fact that I got a finished copy, you know that I manage to finish it, and they agreed to publish it. It's you know, I am so blessed. I am so fortunate, and I know it.

Oh, Like, I absolutely don't. I mean, I just say a couple of things. I mean, you in New Zealand have been very very good to me, and many of you will know that, Like, thirty years ago, I was miird and alcoholic drinking and I had just come out of rehab. And I so often think about what just how lucky I've been, just how incredibly fortunate I've been, you know, to be able to stop drinking, and like I was given so much help, and that everything that has happened to me is completely be a beyond what I could have imagined for myself. And I think, I mean, I do think it's important to stay grateful. But it's easy to stay grateful because I mean, I'm in London at the moment, and that was where I did the worst of my drinking. Every time I'm here, like, I'm happy to be here because it reminds me of you know, there's a parallel version, there's a ghost version of me walking the streets living a very different life, and the fact that I'm I felt so worthless and now that I'm allowed to write books that I enjoy writing and that I feel proud of and that other people enjoy reading. I just that is good fortune. I don't even have the words for it. How grateful and thrilled I am. And with every book that I write, I think, Okay, this is the one where it just you know, the wheels come off. I won't be able to finish it, and I'll just you know, I will disappear into egno me. So the fact that I got a finished copy, you know that I manage to finish it, and they agreed to publish it. It's you know, I am so blessed. I am so fortunate, and I know it.

The biggest names from the Sunday session great chats with Bran Jeska Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks at B That.

The biggest names from the Sunday session great chats with Bran Jeska Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks at B That.

Was the wonderful Marion Keys. So delightful. Right, Marion is one of Ireland's most successful authors, which's a national treasure. But what struck we were interviewing her was how humble she was. She even flicked the zoom camera on and she showed me how she was doing the interview, which was from her bed. So I got to see the whole room. She showed me the whole room and there she is lying in bed, just delightful. Another one of my favorite guests on the Sunday Session this year was acclaimed Ozzie author Trent Dalton, author of Boyce Swallows, Universe, Love Stories and Lola in the Mirror. Trent attended the Auckland Writers' Festival in May and received a standing ovation after his session. So I started off by gratulating him on his festival appearance and asking him what it meant to him. Congratulations for yesterday, because I don't I can't recall seeing a standing ovation in a filled theater at Auckland Writer's Festival. But what a response. How did that feel to know that your stories mean so much to people?

Was the wonderful Marion Keys. So delightful. Right, Marion is one of Ireland's most successful authors, which's a national treasure. But what struck we were interviewing her was how humble she was. She even flicked the zoom camera on and she showed me how she was doing the interview, which was from her bed. So I got to see the whole room. She showed me the whole room and there she is lying in bed, just delightful. Another one of my favorite guests on the Sunday Session this year was acclaimed Ozzie author Trent Dalton, author of Boyce Swallows, Universe, Love Stories and Lola in the Mirror. Trent attended the Auckland Writers' Festival in May and received a standing ovation after his session. So I started off by gratulating him on his festival appearance and asking him what it meant to him. Congratulations for yesterday, because I don't I can't recall seeing a standing ovation in a filled theater at Auckland Writer's Festival. But what a response. How did that feel to know that your stories mean so much to people?

Oh, Francesco, I've been thinking about it. I went back to my hotel and I was just shaking my head. My editor over in Australia couldn't believe it. She saw it all on Instagram and she's like, what's going on over there?

Oh, Francesco, I've been thinking about it. I went back to my hotel and I was just shaking my head. My editor over in Australia couldn't believe it. She saw it all on Instagram and she's like, what's going on over there?

What did you say?

What did you say?

What did you say? And it was so beautiful and I just I kind of said it yesterday. It was this idea that when I have incredibly inspiring moments like that, And thank you Auckland, by the way, like for just being so kind to me. But I really think of the great fear, you know, the great fear that I had in writing about that stuff that you introed with. You know, I was so terrified about telling the world why I love my family. Francesca, like, how how silly is that, you know? And and when those people stood up yesterday, I'm just like started thinking about my mom and my dad. My dad is not around anymore. And this guy that you're saying who went to you know, this drug dealer guy who was kind of like, you know, a real, very real father figure to me. I just like thank those people because it was talking about them and trying to tell the world why I care about them. Is the reason those people stood up yesterday, you know. And I just think I just keep thinking about as like, always face the thing you're terrified of, you know, because it might be your destruction, but it might be the making of you.

What did you say? And it was so beautiful and I just I kind of said it yesterday. It was this idea that when I have incredibly inspiring moments like that, And thank you Auckland, by the way, like for just being so kind to me. But I really think of the great fear, you know, the great fear that I had in writing about that stuff that you introed with. You know, I was so terrified about telling the world why I love my family. Francesca, like, how how silly is that, you know? And and when those people stood up yesterday, I'm just like started thinking about my mom and my dad. My dad is not around anymore. And this guy that you're saying who went to you know, this drug dealer guy who was kind of like, you know, a real, very real father figure to me. I just like thank those people because it was talking about them and trying to tell the world why I care about them. Is the reason those people stood up yesterday, you know. And I just think I just keep thinking about as like, always face the thing you're terrified of, you know, because it might be your destruction, but it might be the making of you.

Also, this book comes from such a place of love. Does it matter who loves us? When we talk about these characters, as you say, who meant something to you growing up as a child who was so important in your life. Who the most of us would stand back and go, oh, one of the most notorious criminals in Queensland was your stepfather.

Also, this book comes from such a place of love. Does it matter who loves us? When we talk about these characters, as you say, who meant something to you growing up as a child who was so important in your life. Who the most of us would stand back and go, oh, one of the most notorious criminals in Queensland was your stepfather.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a thing. I'm sure so many kids across New Zealand are going through it. I've got this person in my life that I care about deeply, but on paper, that person's a rogue or on paper people you know. I had it from teachers at school. No one gave a damn about my parents, you know, and I was always trying to tell them, no, they're actually amazing, Like it's just that they don't come up here enough and you don't get to know them enough because well, dad's drink and offer or whatever. But it's like I loved them deal and I thought they were incredible, and it's it's such a beautiful thing, you say. You know, a kid will take love wherever that kid can get it, and you can get it from a book, or you can get it from your favorite rock star, and you can get it from a guy who's a heroin dealer. Like that's that's truth. And and I sort of almost I don't want to glorify any of that world in my writing or in my words. But it's true. I've found love, great love from those people.

Yeah, it's a thing. I'm sure so many kids across New Zealand are going through it. I've got this person in my life that I care about deeply, but on paper, that person's a rogue or on paper people you know. I had it from teachers at school. No one gave a damn about my parents, you know, and I was always trying to tell them, no, they're actually amazing, Like it's just that they don't come up here enough and you don't get to know them enough because well, dad's drink and offer or whatever. But it's like I loved them deal and I thought they were incredible, and it's it's such a beautiful thing, you say. You know, a kid will take love wherever that kid can get it, and you can get it from a book, or you can get it from your favorite rock star, and you can get it from a guy who's a heroin dealer. Like that's that's truth. And and I sort of almost I don't want to glorify any of that world in my writing or in my words. But it's true. I've found love, great love from those people.

Boy Swallows Universe. About fifty percent of that novel is.

Boy Swallows Universe. About fifty percent of that novel is.

True, is based on your childhood.

True, is based on your childhood.

What did sharing that story, writing about that do for you, because yesterday you spoke about how we should all write more to deal with the monsters in our nightmares.

What did sharing that story, writing about that do for you, because yesterday you spoke about how we should all write more to deal with the monsters in our nightmares.

Ah, well, the biggest thing I realized now, Francesca, I've honestly this is all in hind is. I'm only a realization I've made in the past couple of weeks. You know, for twenty years, I had these terrible dreams about this guy who was in boyceul As Universe. There's this character Teddy. It's just a brief bit in my book, and I don't talk about the real about seven years or so that my mum lived with this guy who was just horrendous, the worst kind of Ossi mail and the kind of Ossie mail that is causing a bit of an epidemic in our country of domestic violence, that type of male. And I up until I was dad, I was like a father of two girls, and this guy would come to me in my dreams. You know, is long ago that guy got out of our lives in the late nineties because well, my three older brothers and I went and saved my mum from this guy, because we've grown up by then and we were tough enough to kind of rench her away from this guy. But the guy doesn't leave your head. And I realized I spent from the age of thirty eight, I'm forty four now. I realized, I've spent six years writing books about this guy. He's He's the villain in three fiction books like right from Boy Absolutely to All Ashroimks Guys to Loller in the Mirror. I keep writing about this guy. And you know, I made this profound kind of realization only about a couple of weeks ago, that the guy isn't in my dreams anymore. He doesn't, he doesn't come. I used to have dreams where I'd be hopping in a car and I'd turn to my left and he's sitting in the car, and I want to like, I want to kill the guy. It's weird in the dream. I always want to kill the guy. And I realized that I wrote three books, and and it was through those books that I killed him.

Ah, well, the biggest thing I realized now, Francesca, I've honestly this is all in hind is. I'm only a realization I've made in the past couple of weeks. You know, for twenty years, I had these terrible dreams about this guy who was in boyceul As Universe. There's this character Teddy. It's just a brief bit in my book, and I don't talk about the real about seven years or so that my mum lived with this guy who was just horrendous, the worst kind of Ossi mail and the kind of Ossie mail that is causing a bit of an epidemic in our country of domestic violence, that type of male. And I up until I was dad, I was like a father of two girls, and this guy would come to me in my dreams. You know, is long ago that guy got out of our lives in the late nineties because well, my three older brothers and I went and saved my mum from this guy, because we've grown up by then and we were tough enough to kind of rench her away from this guy. But the guy doesn't leave your head. And I realized I spent from the age of thirty eight, I'm forty four now. I realized, I've spent six years writing books about this guy. He's He's the villain in three fiction books like right from Boy Absolutely to All Ashroimks Guys to Loller in the Mirror. I keep writing about this guy. And you know, I made this profound kind of realization only about a couple of weeks ago, that the guy isn't in my dreams anymore. He doesn't, he doesn't come. I used to have dreams where I'd be hopping in a car and I'd turn to my left and he's sitting in the car, and I want to like, I want to kill the guy. It's weird in the dream. I always want to kill the guy. And I realized that I wrote three books, and and it was through those books that I killed him.

Used to say as a thirteen year I'm going to collect guy, and your three older brothers used to sort of laugh at you and go, dude.

Used to say as a thirteen year I'm going to collect guy, and your three older brothers used to sort of laugh at you and go, dude.

Oh as if no, because I was I was like the it's all in Boycewaller's universe. I was total water works and I still am. And if anyone was going to do that bad job, might be my one of my three beautiful, incredibly strong older brothers. And they would laugh at me. And but here's the beautiful theme, my brother Ben. It was. It was at a it was a quarter of It was a quarter final where the Broncos had played your beloved Auckland Warriors and we'd had a win, and Ben had were sitting down afterwards and we're talking about this guy and we both realized we both killed him. You know, Ben did it by becoming the beautiful father that he is and the beautiful, working, amazing man. He runs a bloody organization with four hundred people and gets me very proud and like, you know what I mean, you don't you can you can build your own swords, you know when.

Oh as if no, because I was I was like the it's all in Boycewaller's universe. I was total water works and I still am. And if anyone was going to do that bad job, might be my one of my three beautiful, incredibly strong older brothers. And they would laugh at me. And but here's the beautiful theme, my brother Ben. It was. It was at a it was a quarter of It was a quarter final where the Broncos had played your beloved Auckland Warriors and we'd had a win, and Ben had were sitting down afterwards and we're talking about this guy and we both realized we both killed him. You know, Ben did it by becoming the beautiful father that he is and the beautiful, working, amazing man. He runs a bloody organization with four hundred people and gets me very proud and like, you know what I mean, you don't you can you can build your own swords, you know when.

You do consider your childhood. You know, all new boys, it turned out good? I mean, was there a point where it could have gone differently?

You do consider your childhood. You know, all new boys, it turned out good? I mean, was there a point where it could have gone differently?

Oh?

Oh?

That's that's why I write these books. I think I write these books for that working on that notion Francesca like that, that idea that you are walking walking a knife edge, And you know, I was pretty dark by around sixteen seventeen. Honestly, that kid in Boycewaller's universe is so me, Like Eli Bell in that book and that TV show is absolutely me. He's an absolute avatar for me, and I really own that now. But he was the best version of me as a kid. And I really liked myself at twelve, Like I didn't hurt anyone at twelve, and I hadn't. I haven't, I hadn't done anything to upset anyone, And in fact, it was the reverse I tried. I was the one trying to make everybody okay. But by sixteen or seventeen, reality kicked in and it was just like, no, this world. I would look in the mirror. I'd look in my sort of lifeline. Saint Vincent de Paul donated mirror in this house and commission shoe box that were growing up in. My dad was raising us four boys on his own, and I'd look into that mirror and I was just like, hated what I saw in my future, My future self, because all I saw was what was around me, which was basically I was probably going to turn into a drunk, and that was really attractive at that time. And then, because of whatever reason I think, I had this English teacher named Shirley Adams, like, God, bless any English teacher who's listening to this, because you are saving lives. She said, I know you think it's your job to be a smart alec all the time, and I know it's probably because of the things I've heard about where you're from, but I don't care about that. What I care about is that, sir, I'm going to get it. Most of I talk about Shirley Adams, but it was like, what I care about is that you wrote a pretty good English essay last night, and you should take this further and that gets me a job in journalism. And then on January ten, two thousand, I meet this woman named Fiona Friendsman, and she's like the wife I've had for the past twenty four years. And suddenly I liked what I was seeing in the mirror.

That's that's why I write these books. I think I write these books for that working on that notion Francesca like that, that idea that you are walking walking a knife edge, And you know, I was pretty dark by around sixteen seventeen. Honestly, that kid in Boycewaller's universe is so me, Like Eli Bell in that book and that TV show is absolutely me. He's an absolute avatar for me, and I really own that now. But he was the best version of me as a kid. And I really liked myself at twelve, Like I didn't hurt anyone at twelve, and I hadn't. I haven't, I hadn't done anything to upset anyone, And in fact, it was the reverse I tried. I was the one trying to make everybody okay. But by sixteen or seventeen, reality kicked in and it was just like, no, this world. I would look in the mirror. I'd look in my sort of lifeline. Saint Vincent de Paul donated mirror in this house and commission shoe box that were growing up in. My dad was raising us four boys on his own, and I'd look into that mirror and I was just like, hated what I saw in my future, My future self, because all I saw was what was around me, which was basically I was probably going to turn into a drunk, and that was really attractive at that time. And then, because of whatever reason I think, I had this English teacher named Shirley Adams, like, God, bless any English teacher who's listening to this, because you are saving lives. She said, I know you think it's your job to be a smart alec all the time, and I know it's probably because of the things I've heard about where you're from, but I don't care about that. What I care about is that, sir, I'm going to get it. Most of I talk about Shirley Adams, but it was like, what I care about is that you wrote a pretty good English essay last night, and you should take this further and that gets me a job in journalism. And then on January ten, two thousand, I meet this woman named Fiona Friendsman, and she's like the wife I've had for the past twenty four years. And suddenly I liked what I was seeing in the mirror.

And it's a theme in on your books that nobody is invisible, but sometimes we just need those people to remind us that we're not right next And look I know that. I think there was one review with but he criticized you for being a little bit too optimistic, you know, not quite cynical enough maybe, But actually this is one of the beautiful things about your books because they all deal and cover very hard topics in difficult topics. Yeah, but there is this hope that comes from it and this respect for these flawed characters.

And it's a theme in on your books that nobody is invisible, but sometimes we just need those people to remind us that we're not right next And look I know that. I think there was one review with but he criticized you for being a little bit too optimistic, you know, not quite cynical enough maybe, But actually this is one of the beautiful things about your books because they all deal and cover very hard topics in difficult topics. Yeah, but there is this hope that comes from it and this respect for these flawed characters.

Is that forgetting there to say, Oh.

Is that forgetting there to say, Oh.

Absolutely, I did the most After that session yesterday, I had the absolute pleasure of going over to City Mission. It's amazing this place called home Ground is it incredible? Oh? You know, honestly, God bless Auckland. Like this is the way ahead. Like we had a massive homeless problem in Brisbane and right across Australia and it's like we've got to think called Common Ground, it's a bit of a sister project to Home Ground, and it's like that's how we're going to solve it with amazing facilities to help people not just find accommodation, but also find value and and find hope. Yea, you know, these these sort of words I cop a lot of criticism for, you know, I'm just a firm believer in that stuff. And I was sitting there telling these guys there's this writer's group at home ground right, and they were just like, tell us your story and tell us what makes you write. And I was trying to tell I was tell them about that that like, you know, if I ever get criticism, and I've been pretty lucky, but I get the worst kind if it comes. And it's always about this notion of like almost essentially, how dare you write about people who have fallen through the cracks in such a hopeful, romantic way? And I'm like, are you kidding? That might be the most insulting thing I've ever heard, to assume that there is not love on the street, that there is not laughter and hope and family in the cracks. And I try and tell people it's like I write, please don't mistake my optimism for naivity. I know full well what I'm doing and I want you to know, like I feel like calling people up and going, please remember this comes that story. That one comes from my mum line half dead at the bottom of a telstraphone box. You know, that's where my optimism comes from. And the fact she got back up again. You know, and it's like for a lot of people who've been in the cracks, it's they can't entertain the dark. They cannot safely entertain the darkness, you know. And it's like you've got to remember that, so so always remember to put your arms around the bubbly people too, you know what I mean. It's that thing of like, yeah, watch those sunshine people.

Absolutely, I did the most After that session yesterday, I had the absolute pleasure of going over to City Mission. It's amazing this place called home Ground is it incredible? Oh? You know, honestly, God bless Auckland. Like this is the way ahead. Like we had a massive homeless problem in Brisbane and right across Australia and it's like we've got to think called Common Ground, it's a bit of a sister project to Home Ground, and it's like that's how we're going to solve it with amazing facilities to help people not just find accommodation, but also find value and and find hope. Yea, you know, these these sort of words I cop a lot of criticism for, you know, I'm just a firm believer in that stuff. And I was sitting there telling these guys there's this writer's group at home ground right, and they were just like, tell us your story and tell us what makes you write. And I was trying to tell I was tell them about that that like, you know, if I ever get criticism, and I've been pretty lucky, but I get the worst kind if it comes. And it's always about this notion of like almost essentially, how dare you write about people who have fallen through the cracks in such a hopeful, romantic way? And I'm like, are you kidding? That might be the most insulting thing I've ever heard, to assume that there is not love on the street, that there is not laughter and hope and family in the cracks. And I try and tell people it's like I write, please don't mistake my optimism for naivity. I know full well what I'm doing and I want you to know, like I feel like calling people up and going, please remember this comes that story. That one comes from my mum line half dead at the bottom of a telstraphone box. You know, that's where my optimism comes from. And the fact she got back up again. You know, and it's like for a lot of people who've been in the cracks, it's they can't entertain the dark. They cannot safely entertain the darkness, you know. And it's like you've got to remember that, so so always remember to put your arms around the bubbly people too, you know what I mean. It's that thing of like, yeah, watch those sunshine people.

How does your mum feel about so much of her life in your childhood being in these books and on TV series now?

How does your mum feel about so much of her life in your childhood being in these books and on TV series now?

And it's yeah, it's it's awful. You know, it's terrible for her, you know, And I think, but it's beautiful. You know. It's also it's I think the reason she just loves life. I think I think it's really I think it's made her past five years and I think she dreaded every second. But here's the thing about her, Francesca. You know, she has to go into her boss and go. So Mom's like brilliant. Now you know, she did ten years as a traffic control like stop go woman. She you know, leaves that guy. She should have finished as psychology degree, but this guy didn't let her. You know, she gets out of it. She builds her way back the people of Brisbane furnish her home, you know what I mean, Like gets a home so her boys can go visit. And she gets a job at this place called Budget Direct, you know, which is like an insurance place in Australia, and you know, works there for twenty years, and then she has to go into her boss and say, sorry, sorry, boss. My son's written this book about the years in which I was really in love with that massive heroin dealer and I kind of went away for two years. And this guy reads that book and you know, six months later he comes in he goes, hey, I read that book and I want you to know where we're more proud of you than ever before. And so that's sort of where she's at, and she'll probably listen to this. She follows everything, She sees every comment, she sees every quote, she reads every article, and well, I think I think she got Okay, I'm going to get really emotionally, but you know, I think she got up from that phone box for this. I think that's why she stood up.

And it's yeah, it's it's awful. You know, it's terrible for her, you know, And I think, but it's beautiful. You know. It's also it's I think the reason she just loves life. I think I think it's really I think it's made her past five years and I think she dreaded every second. But here's the thing about her, Francesca. You know, she has to go into her boss and go. So Mom's like brilliant. Now you know, she did ten years as a traffic control like stop go woman. She you know, leaves that guy. She should have finished as psychology degree, but this guy didn't let her. You know, she gets out of it. She builds her way back the people of Brisbane furnish her home, you know what I mean, Like gets a home so her boys can go visit. And she gets a job at this place called Budget Direct, you know, which is like an insurance place in Australia, and you know, works there for twenty years, and then she has to go into her boss and say, sorry, sorry, boss. My son's written this book about the years in which I was really in love with that massive heroin dealer and I kind of went away for two years. And this guy reads that book and you know, six months later he comes in he goes, hey, I read that book and I want you to know where we're more proud of you than ever before. And so that's sort of where she's at, and she'll probably listen to this. She follows everything, She sees every comment, she sees every quote, she reads every article, and well, I think I think she got Okay, I'm going to get really emotionally, but you know, I think she got up from that phone box for this. I think that's why she stood up.

List as well. You've been working for years as a social affairs journalist. How has that also? I mean, obviously you can see how that's broadened to these stories as well. They might not be your story that you're telling, but obviously that's influenced your writing a lot as well.

List as well. You've been working for years as a social affairs journalist. How has that also? I mean, obviously you can see how that's broadened to these stories as well. They might not be your story that you're telling, but obviously that's influenced your writing a lot as well.

I was everything I saw, you know, everything I saw from zero to twenty. I got to explore from twenty to forty as a journalist, and like everything I saw at my school, you know, everything that was going on with the kids at my school, or everything that was going on in my street, you know, growing up, alcoholism, suicide, you know, poverty. You know, I got to explore as a journal and do it with actual, like real care, like I actually really cared about it because I was just trying to unpack my own stuff. How's a real benefit to me? You know? I got this dear friend, he said to me the other day, He goes, you know, Trent, not all of us got to write books about it, And I was like, wow, that's really interesting. Not all of us got to be journals and do all that with it, you know what I mean? Yeah, some of us just have to go get like real, just normal type jobs and then carry that stuff with us and never process any of it. I got to go into people's homes for three hours and sit in their living rooms and go, hey, how are you processing that stuff? It was very powerful.

I was everything I saw, you know, everything I saw from zero to twenty. I got to explore from twenty to forty as a journalist, and like everything I saw at my school, you know, everything that was going on with the kids at my school, or everything that was going on in my street, you know, growing up, alcoholism, suicide, you know, poverty. You know, I got to explore as a journal and do it with actual, like real care, like I actually really cared about it because I was just trying to unpack my own stuff. How's a real benefit to me? You know? I got this dear friend, he said to me the other day, He goes, you know, Trent, not all of us got to write books about it, And I was like, wow, that's really interesting. Not all of us got to be journals and do all that with it, you know what I mean? Yeah, some of us just have to go get like real, just normal type jobs and then carry that stuff with us and never process any of it. I got to go into people's homes for three hours and sit in their living rooms and go, hey, how are you processing that stuff? It was very powerful.

The world's changing so much at the moment, and we're seeing, you know, the potential of AI in the future and how it can change the world, and we're watching you know, media industry struggle and things. And I stood the session yesterday and I watched the reaction and the connection that the audience had with you and your stories in your book, and I thought, how can AI threaten this? You know what I mean?

The world's changing so much at the moment, and we're seeing, you know, the potential of AI in the future and how it can change the world, and we're watching you know, media industry struggle and things. And I stood the session yesterday and I watched the reaction and the connection that the audience had with you and your stories in your book, and I thought, how can AI threaten this? You know what I mean?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Yeah, I mean, do you look, You've got a couple of teenage kids and they're about to, you know, head out into the world and things, and are you sitting there having conversations with and going, well, the sensible thing to study now would be.

Yeah, I mean, do you look, You've got a couple of teenage kids and they're about to, you know, head out into the world and things, and are you sitting there having conversations with and going, well, the sensible thing to study now would be.

So, can I just say that there's a massive elephant in this room. It's a happy elephant. It's your birthday. Can I just acknowledge that because we're talking about kids before, I just want to say the biggest happy birthday to you from all of your amazing listeners.

So, can I just say that there's a massive elephant in this room. It's a happy elephant. It's your birthday. Can I just acknowledge that because we're talking about kids before, I just want to say the biggest happy birthday to you from all of your amazing listeners.

It's been a real birthday.

It's been a real birthday.

I hope you have the best I hope a little bit. Sorry, I just want to blow that open. But that's such a good question I had, you know, Boycewallows Universe was one of the books that got fed into AI. You know, there was this list of and I found out from a journal in Western Australia calls me up and they said, do you know that your book was fed into the AI system for what a novel is? You know, so if you type into basically whatever chat GBT or something and you go, you know, write me a novel, you know, basically you know, boy Swallows Universe was one of the thousands that you know it learned from. And I thought that was hilarious because not only is that kind of not even my story, that's my mum's story. That's they're kind of stealing there. It's like my mum had to live that, and then I had to live a bit of it. My brothers had to live that story, you know what I mean. And that's where that's where our storytelling should always come from. It should always come from the little stones we carry around in our bellies, you know. And A I can never do that, and but yeah, it's treacherous. And I've got a daughter who all she wants to do is sing and play guitar, and I just think, wow, you know, is there is there gonna be a world where that is still incredibly valued. Thing. Are the next people fifty years from now going to value it as much as I value that that notion, you know, because that stuff people who sing and play guitar saved my life and and I personally think it's one of the most important jobs in the world. And I've told her that, but I've also told her, I don't know if that's going to really pay your bills. So I have said that thing of like that terrible thing that a parent sort of sets, you know, maybe think about education or or as you said, Francesca, commerce and you like and you do you sort of go, you know, but that's responsible parenting as well. But then the part of me is just a kid.

I hope you have the best I hope a little bit. Sorry, I just want to blow that open. But that's such a good question I had, you know, Boycewallows Universe was one of the books that got fed into AI. You know, there was this list of and I found out from a journal in Western Australia calls me up and they said, do you know that your book was fed into the AI system for what a novel is? You know, so if you type into basically whatever chat GBT or something and you go, you know, write me a novel, you know, basically you know, boy Swallows Universe was one of the thousands that you know it learned from. And I thought that was hilarious because not only is that kind of not even my story, that's my mum's story. That's they're kind of stealing there. It's like my mum had to live that, and then I had to live a bit of it. My brothers had to live that story, you know what I mean. And that's where that's where our storytelling should always come from. It should always come from the little stones we carry around in our bellies, you know. And A I can never do that, and but yeah, it's treacherous. And I've got a daughter who all she wants to do is sing and play guitar, and I just think, wow, you know, is there is there gonna be a world where that is still incredibly valued. Thing. Are the next people fifty years from now going to value it as much as I value that that notion, you know, because that stuff people who sing and play guitar saved my life and and I personally think it's one of the most important jobs in the world. And I've told her that, but I've also told her, I don't know if that's going to really pay your bills. So I have said that thing of like that terrible thing that a parent sort of sets, you know, maybe think about education or or as you said, Francesca, commerce and you like and you do you sort of go, you know, but that's responsible parenting as well. But then the part of me is just a kid.

How can you not let them go and do what they give it a whirl, what they love and the patient about and.

How can you not let them go and do what they give it a whirl, what they love and the patient about and.

Go for it, because because never get to never you don't want to get to that place and go I didn't. I didn't give it ten years of just going to Prague and with my guitar. You know, it's like that's that's living. And I hope she does.

Go for it, because because never get to never you don't want to get to that place and go I didn't. I didn't give it ten years of just going to Prague and with my guitar. You know, it's like that's that's living. And I hope she does.

You know.

You know.

Your or Can Writer's Festival session today is the craft of making people care.

Your or Can Writer's Festival session today is the craft of making people care.

Do people care?

Do people care?

Oh?

Oh?

They what?

They what?

Correct?

Correct?

They do?

They do?

They do? They absolutely still do. Anyone who reads my books care because my books are filled with such you know, they're not the most beautifully written books, but they're filled with such care. You know, like if there's anything I can offer is my care. And I just yesterday showed me that in spades, Like it was so you should have. You were there, said I was there. It was like I'm telling you, they all stood up because they care. And people will never stop caring, you know. And it's and it's so beautiful to live in, you know, a world where you know, hope and care and compassion is still burning bright, you know. And I said yesterday, there's always someone who's going to want to make you cynical. There's all someone and you just got to fight that. You just got to fight him. You've got to fight him with your smile.

They do? They absolutely still do. Anyone who reads my books care because my books are filled with such you know, they're not the most beautifully written books, but they're filled with such care. You know, like if there's anything I can offer is my care. And I just yesterday showed me that in spades, Like it was so you should have. You were there, said I was there. It was like I'm telling you, they all stood up because they care. And people will never stop caring, you know. And it's and it's so beautiful to live in, you know, a world where you know, hope and care and compassion is still burning bright, you know. And I said yesterday, there's always someone who's going to want to make you cynical. There's all someone and you just got to fight that. You just got to fight him. You've got to fight him with your smile.

I love it.

I love it.

Trent Dalton, thank you so much for coming it and making my birthday hi very sad, very much.

Trent Dalton, thank you so much for coming it and making my birthday hi very sad, very much.

This has been beautiful.

This has been beautiful.

Thank you for bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday session. Great chats with Francesca Rudkin on iHeartRadio Empowered by News Talks at b.

Thank you for bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday session. Great chats with Francesca Rudkin on iHeartRadio Empowered by News Talks at b.

That was Trent Dalton. That show was on my birthday. Have you really made my day? If you have to work on your birthday, you want someone hopeful around like Trent, you have to turn another year older. He really is a beautiful man. If you haven't already, I recommend picking up one of Trent's books. And now we head to Hollywood and my next guest is also very down to earth and open, but has had an extraordinary career. Actress Diane Krueger made a name for herself starring in Quentin Tarantino's and Glorious Bastards, Troy National Treasure, and her latest film is Dreiker, directed by Kiwi director James Napier Robinson. It's based on the story of the b Lorena Joy Womack. The conversation began with Diane telling me what drew her to the character and the story.

That was Trent Dalton. That show was on my birthday. Have you really made my day? If you have to work on your birthday, you want someone hopeful around like Trent, you have to turn another year older. He really is a beautiful man. If you haven't already, I recommend picking up one of Trent's books. And now we head to Hollywood and my next guest is also very down to earth and open, but has had an extraordinary career. Actress Diane Krueger made a name for herself starring in Quentin Tarantino's and Glorious Bastards, Troy National Treasure, and her latest film is Dreiker, directed by Kiwi director James Napier Robinson. It's based on the story of the b Lorena Joy Womack. The conversation began with Diane telling me what drew her to the character and the story.

Well, I've always loved the ballet. I was a ballet dancer myself from a very young agehn not as talented obviously as Joka is, but I've just and to this day, you know, I just enjoy watching the ballet. I love the discipline, the gracefulness, the music and.

Well, I've always loved the ballet. I was a ballet dancer myself from a very young agehn not as talented obviously as Joka is, but I've just and to this day, you know, I just enjoy watching the ballet. I love the discipline, the gracefulness, the music and.

To play you know, a teacher.

To play you know, a teacher.

At the Bullshoy, which to this day is considered the highest form of ballet and the highest academy to be able to get into.

At the Bullshoy, which to this day is considered the highest form of ballet and the highest academy to be able to get into.

Was just wonderful.

Was just wonderful.

And also, you know, the movie is based on a true story that always draws me in.

And also, you know, the movie is based on a true story that always draws me in.

I find that fascinating.

I find that fascinating.

Yeah, what was it like to be back in the dance studio.

Yeah, what was it like to be back in the dance studio.

It was great. It was a little trading as well.

It was great. It was a little trading as well.

I don't do a lot of dancing myself, and obviously I'm way too old to be really as flexible as I once was. But just you know, I love the atmosphere of a ballet's studio. I love seeing the girls do their exercises. You know, I'm still obviously able to see who does well, who's struggling in certain areas. You know, it's it all comes back to you, and yeah, I just remember I have good memories of that time in my life.

I don't do a lot of dancing myself, and obviously I'm way too old to be really as flexible as I once was. But just you know, I love the atmosphere of a ballet's studio. I love seeing the girls do their exercises. You know, I'm still obviously able to see who does well, who's struggling in certain areas. You know, it's it all comes back to you, and yeah, I just remember I have good memories of that time in my life.

While you say that you weren't as talented as Joika, I mean you did take it very seriously. We should explain to people that you trained at the Royal Academy in London. I mean, this is what you did think you were going to do with your life right, Yes.

While you say that you weren't as talented as Joika, I mean you did take it very seriously. We should explain to people that you trained at the Royal Academy in London. I mean, this is what you did think you were going to do with your life right, Yes.

To a certain extent. I was very young, you know, I was a child, and I would go there on my vacations, you know, to do dance camp. I guess in a way, I did take it very seriously. I did train every single day. But you know, for me, there was this turning point where it did not become fun anymore. Once I sort of hit puberty and my body started to change and I was falling behind.

To a certain extent. I was very young, you know, I was a child, and I would go there on my vacations, you know, to do dance camp. I guess in a way, I did take it very seriously. I did train every single day. But you know, for me, there was this turning point where it did not become fun anymore. Once I sort of hit puberty and my body started to change and I was falling behind.

I had a knee injury.

I had a knee injury.

Which kind of took me out for many months, and then just the pain of coming back and trying to regain all that flexibility was just torture to me. So it became not fun, you know, And I just I guess I didn't see myself ever trying to dance in the back of the of the stage.

Which kind of took me out for many months, and then just the pain of coming back and trying to regain all that flexibility was just torture to me. So it became not fun, you know, And I just I guess I didn't see myself ever trying to dance in the back of the of the stage.

I'm going to be honest. Watching Joika's journey, it didn't look a lot like a lot of fun either. Diane, Yeah, I mean it is.

I'm going to be honest. Watching Joika's journey, it didn't look a lot like a lot of fun either. Diane, Yeah, I mean it is.

It is the for those girls, you know.

It is the for those girls, you know.

I think it's that intoxicating mixture of pleasure, the pleasure of dancing. There is this a little bit perverse, I'd say, pleasure of overcoming pain and overcoming personal limitations that you think you have. You know, I think any athlete might feel the same way.

I think it's that intoxicating mixture of pleasure, the pleasure of dancing. There is this a little bit perverse, I'd say, pleasure of overcoming pain and overcoming personal limitations that you think you have. You know, I think any athlete might feel the same way.

And it is a community, you.

And it is a community, you.

Know, it is a little bubble of community. And that's what I remember the most, was feeling part of you know, a mutual goal, a mutual ambition. I do have mostly great memories of that.

Know, it is a little bubble of community. And that's what I remember the most, was feeling part of you know, a mutual goal, a mutual ambition. I do have mostly great memories of that.

Time because I think with this film you do question that desire to sacrifice everything to achieve. Yeah, you want to achieve, yeah, absolutely.

Time because I think with this film you do question that desire to sacrifice everything to achieve. Yeah, you want to achieve, yeah, absolutely.

Because it's it's It's also set in Russia, right, so I think the Bolshoy there's not a lot of room for.

Because it's it's It's also set in Russia, right, so I think the Bolshoy there's not a lot of room for.

For enjoyment or excess, I guess, and it's quite political.

For enjoyment or excess, I guess, and it's quite political.

I will say that the ballet world in general is very competitive and very cutthroat, not just in Russia. So I do think when you when you do get to a certain level, to push through that last door, I think in any academy around the world is very difficult and tedious.

I will say that the ballet world in general is very competitive and very cutthroat, not just in Russia. So I do think when you when you do get to a certain level, to push through that last door, I think in any academy around the world is very difficult and tedious.

Well, how wonderful being an actor and been able to step back into the dance studio and into that world again. You very much looked you know, you absolutely were the right person for this job. You looked so comfortable. I absolutely bel did. I had little kind of flashbacks to my childhood and dance teachers as well.

Well, how wonderful being an actor and been able to step back into the dance studio and into that world again. You very much looked you know, you absolutely were the right person for this job. You looked so comfortable. I absolutely bel did. I had little kind of flashbacks to my childhood and dance teachers as well.

She is strict, so many of them are.

She is strict, so many of them are.

So after the knee and obviously and the torture of sort of if we dance got to you and things, was it kind of a natural progression to go, Okay, well, what else is there that I where I can express the and represent sort of human experiences? Was acting sort of the obvious next step for you?