A Brutally Honest Review Of Wicked

Published Nov 29, 2024, 3:56 AM

What is this feeling so sudden and new…well it’s our brutally honest review of Wicked.

You’ll be dancing through life as you listen to our breakdown on how the film was made, which big celebrity names missed out on key roles and the storylines from the book that were too dark to be included.

From the scenes we’ve dubbed the most popular to those that were just not that girl, join us as we weep, laugh and sing (only once, we promise) through our review of Wicked Part One.

Plus, we haven’t forgotten Weekend Watch! This week we have a new Netflix rom-com to recommend to you along with a new Aussie holiday classic.

Listen to our Brutally Honest Review Of Gladiator II here. 

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CREDITS

Hosts: Laura Brodnik & Em Vernem

Executive Producer: Kimberley Braddish 

Audio Producer: Scott Stronach

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures. 

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From Mama Mia. Welcome to the Spill your daily pop culture X. I'm m Burnham and I'm Laura Bretney Haha. On the show today, we have the much anticipated brutally honest review of Wicked Part one. We also have Weekend Watch at the end, but first we need to give you a little bit of some background of I guess what do we call it? Wicked law? Would you say?

Yes?

Wicked law, which spans many, many, many decades. So if you're not across the background, which it is, come to my attention that a lot of people aren't, which is you know, totally fine, this is your Wicked.

To the open door environment. Welcome.

He yes. If Wicked has taught us anyone anything, it's that everyone is welcome where there a cat or a dog, unless you go against the wizard and then you're ostracized. So Wicked came out in two thousand and three, so over twenty years ago, as a Broadway show starring Idina Menzel and Christian Shaoweth. But before then it was a very popular book series which came out in nineteen ninety five. So you've got the Wicked series, actually four books in the series, which I'm not sure if people realize we hold that thought. Okay, So you've got Wicked, which is the first book which came out in nineteen ninety five, and the full title is Wicked the Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, written by Gregory Maguire. And then you have Son of a Witch which was published in Son of a Witch, That Leer, which was published in two thousand and five, A Line among Men which came out in two thousand and eight, and then the final book in the series, Out of Oz, which was published in twenty eleven. So these are separate to the original Wizard of Oz books written by Frank Elbam. So did you hear what I said, they're Frank Elbam.

Yeah.

So the writer, Gregory Maguire, was always very enthralled by the story of the Wizard of Oz, both the original movie with Judy Garland, but also the books. And you know, there's a whole world around the Wizard of Oz that has nothing to do with Dorothy in the original books. In that world, and he was always very kind of taken with this idea of the Wicked Witch and the idea that she was just evil because she was evil and there was no backstory, and so he wrote the books to kind of reimagine where her story would go. But he also wrote it as mostly like a political commentary and a commentary on how society reacts to power and corruption and treats people, which.

Is a big theme in the musical and movie as well.

Yes, it's definitely a big theme in both the movie and the musical. But the musical, like the Broadway show, is so wildly different to the books, and.

That is that the book. So is the show like about just the first book or all the entire series.

Yes, so the Wicked stage show is based off the first Wicked book, but they're quite different in men anyways. So when Gregory maguire wrote the novel, he kind of just envisioned it that it would start with Elpheber's birth, which it does, and end with her death, which it does, but there's a lot of changes made there. And it's interesting. When the book was first published, Hollywood was very interested in making it into a movie, and Gregory Maguire has talked about the fact that when the book Wicked came out, he started getting all of these calls. Woopy Goldberg was like, put me in this movie. I want to make it. Demi Moore wanted to be in it, but so many studios, he said, were really hesitant to make it because his reasoning was, it was before you had the adaptation of Lord of the Rings, which was a huge success for Harry Potter. So he said studios were very nervous about making one hundred million dollar fantasy movies based on books. And he said they were particularly hesitant, and history tells it this is true. The studios were particularly hesitant about making a fantasy movie franchise with no male like big male leads, and so it kind of stalled for quite a while there, and then he got a call from composer and Lyriis's Stephen Schwartz, the amazing Stephen Schwartz, who said, I think this is a Broadway show, not a movie, and it was at the time especially so much cheaper to get a Broadway show up. And then he wrote No One Warns the Wicked as a kind of an idea of what he could do. And when Gregory Maguire heard that, he was like, yeah, I'm all in. But then when Gregory Maguire like read the full script for the Broadway show, he was quite upset about how it ends. So I don't want to spoil Wicked Part two for people who haven't seen the stage show.

But but we are spoiling Wiki part one.

Yes, that is the whole point of this podcast, but there are some big changes there. In fact, the books are so much darker, Like this is why I'm quite kind of concerned with the fact that they have reissued the books with pictures of Cynthia Arrivo and Ariana Grande. Have they actually Yeah, so they've come out with new covers and has a photo of Ariana Grande who's playing Glinda Upland, and Cynthia Evo who's playing Alphabethrop on the cover. And the books are so different, particularly the first one, because there's so much darker. There's so much more intense things ben and there's not this huge friendship between Glinda and Alphabet. That there is a friendship between them, but it fizzles away much faster, and it's not the main part of the story, like that thread has been pulled out for the musical, but it doesn't exist in the books. And there's also not a romance between Fierro and Glinda in the books, like he comes to school, he's kind of in their circles. Some bad stuff happens, they still go and meet the wizard. And then years later Alphaba and Fiero re meet and he's married with a wife and many kids, and then they start sleeping together, and then later on she reappears, and then later on she reappears with a child, Lie, who is the bastard son of Alphaba and Fierro, and he moves her into the castle with his family and friends and his children as the mistress, and all this other stuff is happening in Oz and then afterwards they're all brutally killed, Fiera, his wife, or all the kids except for one one of the daughters. And later on the books take an even darker turn. Glinda's really not a figure in them, like she really doesn't look after Alphabet's granddaughter. Later on, Alphabet's son and Fieri's son is like raped by a woman named Candle and left to raise their green skinned daughter.

It's a whole it's a whole situ.

Okay, So no spoilers, but that does not happen. That is no, no, no, I'm assuming the second film. But what I find, Yeah, I can't believe they would reimage because I would think that's a direct correlation. So for me, as someone who's not like fully into the Wicked law, like I did watch the musical, I've talked about and then watched the movie and now I'm obsessed. But it feels like when they transition from going to books to musical, it feels like the musical is more suited for I guess the original Wizard of Oz audience, like that younger audience that the movie wanted to pull in that they could also watch something with their parents that feels like what the musical actually is.

Yes, so Wicked the Stage show then came out twenty one years ago. It was a huge smash hit. It's been playing ever since in multiple different countries and has become one of the most beloved Broadway shows of all time. And it starred Idina Menzel as the original Alphaba and Kristian Shanowe as the original Glinda.

Brilliant brilliant casting.

So this is why for many years a lot of fans didn't want the movies to be made because when the show came out, like those were Idna and Kristen's roles, like they became so synonymous with those roles. It's funny when you hear Idina Menzel's audition story. So they were looking for this person who could hit these high notes and embody this character and really bring it to life. And she talks about going into that initial audition and she's singing and she's hitting the notes and then she goes to hit one particularly famous note and completely stuffs it up and she completely breaks character and she goes, oh fuck, and she said the whole room of all the Wicked teams started laughing, and it kind of showed her personality and showed that she could play Alphabet. It's this very serious character, but she also played like the comedy and the humor and that biting wit that Alphaba has and that's how.

She got the role.

Oh and she was like made.

For that role one hundred percent. So after that became such a smash hit. And they're obviously both Christian Shannow with and Ideina Menzol are also actresses who have been in lots of TV shows and movies and so a lot of people thought that they should be the ones to play these roles on the big screen. But it just movies take so long to get made and there's so many Like every time any kind of movie is on screen, like you have to sort of appreciate the fact that it's a miracle that it ever got made.

So do you think they were chosen originally and then just aged out of that role?

They aged out of the characters.

I don't think there was ever a set thing of like we're making this movie. It was more just thought like these are their characters, either their roles, and people wanted a movie, but I don't think that was ever kind of went past that phase. But once they left those roles and moved on to other things and they aged out of playing it, a lot of fans, including me, were like, well that's it. Don't make the movie, you know. And then over the years, there were lots of adaptations of Wicked that nearly made it to the screen, Like Lady Gaga was attached to one for a while, which I'm not as Alpha Bart, which I'm not. I think she would have been actually quite good.

I also saw a man to say free.

Yes, So there were quite a few other celebrities who desperately wanted to be in a movie.

If you like, look up the other celebrities who are attached, They're literally everywhere and their audition tapes. I'm like, well and truly could have been any one of them.

This is why I think the movie has worked so well is that at first I thought when John and Chwo was attached to direct, and it was also so brilliant, oh brilliant, like what a filmmaker. When he was attached, that kind of gave me a bit more that sound like, I'm so like a little safety net, because I didn't think that he was going to really lean into the idea of just stunt casting or casting a big name or anything like that, which he didn't. And so, Yes, Amanda Seafree did audition, and she talked about the fact that she was filming The Dropout, you know, her TV show that she won awards for, around the same time as they were doing the Wicked auditions.

Yes, and she said I.

Want to par She said that she wanted to play Glinda so much that she said, I'll film the last episodes of my show. I'll fly anywhere, I'll do it on a Sunday, I'll go give up everything for this role.

And she honestly like would have mailed that role like she I think she looks exactly like how I would have pictured Glyn.

At first, when I heard that they had chosen Ariana Grande over Amanda Seafried, I was a bit, sort of a little bit nervy. Yeah, I was quite angry that Amanda had a men cast. But now I don't know, Like, she has got a good voice, and I know she's at the moment working on adapting a musical that she's creating from scratch, so she's very musically minded, but I don't know if she has the vocal range.

Sure, maybe even the chemistry.

Yeah, exactly, There's so many different parts there. And then also Dove Cameron was the other person who was really in the mix for the role. So she had played Christian Shannwood's daughter in a production of Hair Spray, and at first, when Kristin was being asked who should play Glinda in the movie, she a lot of the time did name Dove Cameron. Interestingly, she always named Ariana Grande for Alphaba, and at the time I was like, absolutely washing your mouth.

That was so proud, dare you?

Because Arina Grande originally wanted to play Elfie, Like she said that that is my dream, yeah, to play Alphaba, and she got close.

She did well, I think, and as time went on she sort of saw she was more suited for Glinda. And Dove Cameron auditioned and she said it was the most intense audition process she's ever gone through and she came very close to getting it. Also, Renee Rap auditioned to play Glinda and said that it was she went through also many many rounds. This is the thing about Ariana Grande where I came around to her playing the role before I saw the movie and so that she was quite great in it is that when she first heard that there was a rumor that auditions were starting, is when she was on her big sweeten A tour, you know, that big worldwide tour, and she said, I will absolutely cancel this entire tour, not cancel the tour to go and audition, cancel the tour to start training for her audition. Because she spent almost a year just practicing for her audition in terms of working with a movement and dance coach to get the righte movement working with a vocal coach because it's a different range. She was telling me in her interview, it's a completely different range that she sings.

And we have talked about how if you do, if you are a fan of Arina Grande know her music. Everyone knows some music. Yeah, but if you do watch Wicked and your eyes are closed, there's you wouldn't be able to tell it her Like her Broadway register is so different to what her normal singing voice is.

Like, yeah, absolutely, And so when she went into audition, even John the director said initially he didn't want to. He thought it was also going to be stunt casting if he cast Ariana Grande, especially because of where you think where she was at the time during a world wide tour and all these number ones and everything. The idea that her persona as a pop star would overshadow the movie isn't there.

Wild It's like such a risk. And yet if you're like starting off in movies, a low bunch of movies, you obviously want a big star. Yeah, and then when it's such a big movie in itself, it does the opposite effect.

Yeah, absolutely, like no, no, no, these stars too bad will ruin my movie, and then she came in like no makeup and just her.

Bleached brown yes, her blonde hair.

Looking exactly like almost like a shell of what could be turned into Glinda. And a lot of people have said, did they make her look very kind of almost uncanny, almost the worldly, like.

A blank handy in the movie?

Yeah, which I almost think they do, Like in the movie Glinda has she's a lot more preppy and classic blonde bombshell a little bit in the stage productions, but in the movie they've made her look a little bit almost other world.

Like ethere A.

Right.

Yeah, she's very It's weird when you first see her because like she's the first person you see when the movie starts. Yeah, and if we didn't see all the promo and stuff for it, I would have looked at that and been like, wait, I'm confused, Like where's her bright pink lipstick? Were's her deep eyeshadow and like sparkly eyelid and glitter all over her? And they kept her very simple and let like, I guess the personality of the character be the character rather than like and the outfit as well, rather than like making her up to look princessly.

Yeah.

Absolutely they did make a lot of changes from the stage show to the movie, and I think that's one that works quite well. Yeah, and then everyone had to audition multiple times, so Cynthia Arrivo did as well. But I think people were well. The thing is, when she got announced, a lot of people said who, and I just thought, Oh, bite your tongue.

Oh I'm close to Egot win Who who do you think?

Yeah, exactly, you know, winner of Tony Award's Oscar nominee. But I guess she had been on Broadway for like The Color Purple and other productions for quite a long time, so she was no one as an actress, but she was better known as a Broadway I.

Think when she was announced as Alphaba, Cynthia Rivo as someone who wasn't part of the huge Wicked fan base, this is where I first saw the biggest difference between fan of musicals versus fan of movies. Yeah, because we had the fan of movie look so excited to see Wicked as a movie. I would probably include myself into that category. Had watched the musical, knows the story, couldn't wait for the movie see Cynthia Rivo. I can say that I actually knew who she was, but I understand people who didn't, going who like I've never seen this woman before, and then like the musical fans just going, how fucking day, Yeah, like she is musical royalty.

It's funny too, because with the casting of Jonathan Bailey, Okay, so so many men auditioned in Hollywood to be Fierro, and of Seawan Mendez, I just don't think that would have worked. I didn't see his audition, so I can't say, like I said, I was wrong about Ariana Grandale, admit that, but yeah, he got quite close and he apparently really really wanted it. I say the look, yeah, yeah, I guess. And obviously you can sing, but you know you need more than sing. Fierro's got a particular kind of cruismer that you have to that you have to bottle up for this role. But also these poor sweet boys, I don't want to laugh at them, but the Jonas brothers on talking about thinking stunt casting, but all three both no, not what's the old one?

Kevin? No, Kevin did you don't know.

Kevin from the hit reality TV Jonas.

He must have been busy doing that because he didn't get the call up to audition, but both Nick and Joe Jonas auditioned for Fierro. And it's interesting because the way they talk, they're acting like they were battling it out between the two of them, and I do believe it was more of the open casting call at the beginning that they auditioned for.

I mean, one was a great star in camp.

Rock and too, and again maybe I would have improven wrong. We never know, but I feel pretty safe saying that neither of them would have been great, and so they all went to Jonathan Bailey, which I think is just inspired casting. I didn't know he could sing, so he has been a Broadway star since he didn't know that. He has won a lot of big, very prestigious awards. He's been Yeah, he's been performing on stage and professional production since he was eight years old, so he is that's the thing too. Like Ariana Grande also performed on Broadway when she was a child. Cynthia Rivo is a Broadway star Jonathan Bailey, like, these are all people that have found success in Hollywood in different shows and movies, all through pop music, so they're very palatable to a mainstream audience. But I don't think you can cast people without Broadway backgrounds in those roles.

Yeah, And I also think with people knowing that, Like this is where I think the contrast between movie fans and musical fans. People forget that musicals are actually massive. Yeah, Like they're huge, huge, huge, They have massive fan bases. They are like millions and millions of people who like no musicals, who've studied musicals, who like watch every single musical multiple times. And if they casted someone who had nothing to do with musicals, I think that would have gone down so badly.

Yeah, exactly.

So the only person doesn't really have a musical background is Michelle Yo who plays That's Horrible, Jeff Goldbloom and.

Jeff Goldblum that Man.

So they don't but I guess they don't really have those big musical numbers.

It's so funny when Michelle have like those like musical numbers where they talk scene.

Yeah.

So when Michelle Yo was, I think she was one of the people who didn't have to go through as much as of a rigorous audition process, Like I do believe she's still auditioned. But she and John have like you know, worked together before, and she said to him, but John, I can't.

Sing, what do you want me to do?

Like?

And he was like, no, no, it's the character. And she's obviously brilliant in that role. But Ethan Slater is a Broadway star. Yes, he was in the SpongeBob square Pants.

Still Broadway star.

Yeah, oh you still look.

I know SpongeBob makes it on Broadway to say I've still got to be there every night performing a role, and that is very successful musical.

And yes, I know I gave him a lot of shit when he started, but he was actually quite great. And then the only person really who doesn't have that big Broadway background is Marissa Bodi, who plays Nessa Rose, and that is because she is the first performer who is actually a wheelchair user to play the role of Nessa Roseho's in a wheelchair in over twenty years, Isn't that wild?

So every musical of Wicked didn't have a wheelchair performer.

You know, they have an able bodied person at least all the main productions. Obviously we're not taking into account like community productions and that sort of thing, but no other person on Broadway who is a wheelchair user has played that role before.

But she is brilliant. She's so good, but like the actual role, the character itself not my favor character in the musical, Like I think even like the watching the musical, I'm like, oh my god, I hate this character, but she is so good.

She gets more of a backstory in this which I like a lot of people have said, like, how the hell did they make the first part of the movie so wicked? Part one almost longer than the entire stage show, And it's because they've added in more backstories. So, like Alphabet has more backstory when she arrives at She's university in the musical, you don't see her as a child, you don't see her use her powers and sort of see her being bullied as a kid, and giving her that extra backstory.

Oh kid version, Yeah, like broke I forgot about that, completely broke my head.

Which I think is good because you're going in there and you're giving two different one part of the movie. I quite liked that nessa Rose and Alphabet both have a bit more of a backstory, and I think it really gives the die hard fans like me who have seen the stage show eight times and read the books a bit more context and giving you like a reason to lean forward because's like, oh, there's new information here.

Also the anticipation of what happens next, right, Yeah, if you watched the musical, you would know what happens to these characters. And what made me nervous about Nessa Rose is that we start knowing so much about her in the first movie that I'm like, oh, this is gonna hurt so badly in the second movie.

And she was telling me when I interviewed her that she there's a lot more changes coming for her second movie. It's so interesting because she auditioned and then heard nothing for such a long time, and in that time, she wasn't getting other roles, and she desperately wanted Wicked. So she went away and made a short film and in the short film there's a spell that she casts, and she did that spell to get Wicked. And then she released this short film and literally the next day John m two called her and said and he had Ariana and Cynthia like on the line too, so they could be like, will you be Ournessa Rose?

So she got the role.

And then when I was talking to Ethan Slater, He's like, yeah, I bumped into John in London. He's like, I think we found our nessa rose and I think she's a witch.

But it's okay, Oh that makes me so happy she got the role. Like it does like, broadly speaking, suck that someone who just because they're not able bodied that they have to do that extra step just to get the work that they want to get. And I hope that her getting this role kind of opens everyone else's eyes into like, no, there are so many talented people and we need to stop pulling from the same pool.

Yeah, exactly.

And also a lot of time you have a role this and like it's like, yes, you'll get cast in Wicked, but then like no one else in Hollywood will give her a role, So I think it'll be like the real kind of touchstone of where that things are getting better is if she gets cast in different projects following the success of Wicked. But yeah, all the little details too, Like when you first see her appear at Shoes University, she's wearing like white and gray striped socks, which is alluding to the colored socks that she'll wear when she becomes a Wicked witch later on.

I didn't even say that.

Oh, there's so many hidden details like that's what I like, I love about so much. Are people born wicked or do they have wickedness thrust upon them?

You're agreed, Ye, welcome new students to She's University, Miss Alphama, you can room with Miss Glinda. Ah.

Yeah, this is a movie that I think you really do need to watch multiple times because there's so many hidden details.

Like even at the start.

Of the movie, when the universal logo comes up, it's the black and white vintage version, which is identical to the one that was used in nineteen thirty nine when the original Wizard of Oz came out, and then it switches from that to color, just like the most famous scene from The Wizard of Oz where she opens the door to mons Can Land and it's the color.

Oh, there's so many little things.

I love that.

And we got to watch it together and we were in a room of just like wicked fans because like we were allowed to do the whole like nudging, and they're like look at that and like pointing, like we're all looking at the same screen, but like me pointing. It was just so much fun. But yeah, it's the little easter eggs and I think that's the thing that like works beyond their marketing plan. Like I feel like they had such a brilliant marketing scheme with this, Like the movie's been out now for a few weeks and we're still seeing it all over our social media. It's like it's always the first post. If I opened Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, no matter what, it's always a Wicked post that's first up. And it made me realize that this is probably the first movie I've seen that has been able to branch out cross generational even two people who hate musicals, people who hate like whimsical films, who hates like non reality films, And look, I'm being honest, I'm talking about my dad here. Like my dad loves musicals. He loved Wicked, but he hates like musicals in films. So he didn't like Kabba, he didn't like Mama Mia. He doesn't like anything. Every time someone starts sing a song, he's like, oh God, was gonna be this. He also doesn't like things that aren't reality, so w then he sees like a little bit of magic. He's like, oh God, I thought this was a real film.

Oh no, not the magic. Well, I would love your dad's review.

He is so excited to watch this film, and I think it's because of all the connections it's making with Wizard of Oz, which is like what their generation also grew up with with, like the law of like singing. I think also a big factor of it is how they're actually singing in the actual movie. Yeah, Like that is a huge pull for so many people. And I think just because it's everywhere, Like it feels weird to say I don't want to watch this movie because like why wouldn't you, Yeah, Like why wouldn't you? It's everywhere.

I mean obviously, like a huge amount of you know, money and time was spent on the costumes in the sets, and it's so visual. But also that's been the one thing that a lot of people have had a lot of backlash too. So I don't know if you remember when the first images and the first teaser trailer for Wicked came out, there was a lot of backlash, even from me to an extent, because they really put a lot of stock in the fact that they were going to do almost like what Barbie did in terms of like being very light on CGI and really leaning into practical effects, which is all I want to see in movies at the moment, I want to see real sets, real things built. So that train that takes them from shiz yeah to ods a real train. It's a real train set up that they built. They've filmed them jumping on it's beautiful, yeah, exactly. And also the tulips, they actually planted nine million multicolored tulips. Those are real tulips. And they built the houses and they built the sets like those houses in Munchkinlen You can open the door and look inside, and they're real houses. And so when people saw that, they were just like, how does it look so? And I feel like they changed it for the movie. A lot of people still think that the movie looks a bit washed out and muted, and there's so many different reasons for that.

Some of them I didn't think that well.

Some of it's a creative.

Choice, and some of it's because the way that movies are shot now, you can't shoot them with the same color and technology that you had back in the day. There's a lot of different moving parts there. But I do think it looked quite good when we actually saw the finished product. If we're going to get into some criticisms, okay, I do sometimes think they leant too much into the production and were too kind of focused on like look what we've got, look or we can do. And I think that's sometimes where movie magic can be almost a curse because in a stage what do you.

Mean by that, like lent into the production, like do you have an example?

Yes, I do have an example. Thank you.

You're just like shore your work.

I think in some cases having the movie magic opened up the storyline a bit more like when they're going to the Osters Ballroom and they get in the boats and they go in to the that's all added for the movie. Obviously, nothing like that happens in the stage show. They just walk into a room that's on the stage and then you have animals playing music in the drinks and all that, and that's I think a good example where you can add extra layers and like do world building because you have special effects. But then two songs I think suffered a little bit were Popular and Dancing through Life, which are two of the kind of big musical numbers in the movie. So just think in Dancing through Life, that's Jonathan Bailey's big moment, that's his song. Yeah, there's so much exposition, but I think also so much of it is just on his charisma, and they had built these incredible sets, and I think sometimes they deferred to wanting to show off these incredible sets they have built instead of just focusing on his movement and his dancing. So he does an amazing job. So you know, when he's standing up on the desk and he's stepping over the books and he's kicking the books and all that sort of stuff, that's all him dancing, and that's a one shot. So he learned how to do that. He actually practiced it in his trailer when he was filming Bridgeton. He would be like filming Bridgeton then coming back to his trailer and practicing all of the moves so that he could do the book step and slide. And if you look really closely at the books, the art department from the movie has made shiz textbooks and oz history books, so if you look at the pages, it's all written out with like as if they're actual books, even though you can barely see that. The details amazing. But then I think also they built that library where like the books are spinning and the students are spinning it, and that sort of stuff, and I think sometimes acrobats, yes, you lose the magic of the song by zeroing in too much on look at the look at the stage production of this instead of look at the song. And I think that happened a little bit in Popular to an extent. It's interesting because when they went to film the movie, they wanted to maybe change popular, like change the arrangement a bit, which they did, but they wanted to change it and make it even more poppy and maybe even a bit hip hop. And it was actually Ariana Grande who pushed back and was like, I'm not try glad you did a hip hop version of this, so it's.

Like one of the most popular songs in the entire musical and they changed that too much or no.

And I think that was her really pushing against like I don't want to be a pop star here, I want to be a stage prose. Also, everyone would have hated her that and she would have been blamed. But I also think in that song, like again, that's such an important moment because that's when you really obviously you have that incredible scene in the Osdusk Ballroom where they dance together Alphaba and Glinda, and it's what really solidifies their friendship. And what I think is super interesting about that is that arian and Grande went into that not knowing all the choreography. They just said to her follow alphabet, like follow Cynthia, And so that's why she's mirroring her so perfectly, is that they're really like learning that movement together for the first time.

Ah, that's beautiful.

So then in.

Popular, they put so much into just creating the set, and so I think sometimes the camera pans away from Ariana's performance and Cynthia's performance, and it pans too much to showing look at her shoes, and look at how the closet opens, and look how the makeup opens, and look at all the different details that we've built into this world instead of looking at how she's performing Popular and what she's saying.

Okay, I understand where you're coming from. But I do think that they had those and scenes with like the oh look over here, I look over there for the movie people, because I do think they needed this little like glamour side of it to be like, Okay, we know that not all of you have seen the musical. We know that all of not all of you like musicals. Come look at this, it's for everyone. You'll enjoy it with also acknowledging and knowing that they might be kind of annoying the fans of the actual musical. You know, what kind of sets are I wanted to see?

Yeah, I wanted.

To see like odes to the original Wizard of Oz, Like I wanted to see very low fi but like sets that you know, have been put like so much hard work into. I remember as a kid, I was like absolutely terrified of Wicked Witch of the West. But the thing that made me love it so much was like in the end when she like jumps on her broomstick to go chase after Dorothy, It's so clear that she is going to jump into like a painting, Yeah, and not like the actual like land of And then you just see like a little figurine that's obviously like a set that's made on a table of like this like little Black Wizard whizzing around.

Yeah.

I thought that, Like there was something in the back of my head where I was like, I wonder if they'll do anything like really low fi cool like that, which I know would have pulled away from the actual whole experience of it. But I also think that talking about the sets in general. That's why I'm so excited to find out that they made the train, because I think that's such an ode to not just the musical, but the original Wizard of Oz film, like and the respect that all those teams had putting all the effort into those set builds because that's all they had, Like they had tiny bit of CGI, but not really like they had. Everything had to be built and made, and people died because of asbestos, people died because of lead painting, and they like.

People got sick. They didn't die before we get before we get sued.

And it was just like, like I would have been really upset if they did all that CGI. But I did really love those two songs because I think that's.

Just oh there was They were still great.

I'm just thinking those are the times it was like a bit pulled out of the story by the spectacle rather than the staging. But they did do something a little bit low fi in the popular scene. So that was a very tiny set they had built because they were trying to make it room. Yeah, they were trying to make it look like a dorm space. So it was very small and very hard to film in, especially for that musical number, and they were able to sometimes take the roof off, but it was very hard to kind of see what was going on in the room. So when they're filming Popular John m two hid under the bed because he's trying to get like a close up of what they're doing, and he's under there, and at one stage Ariana Grande was saying that they were doing it and they had to stop the musical and stop filming, and she said, John, we can see you. You're sticking out from under the bed like you're ruining and he started giggling, and that was a whole situation.

That's how they filmed it.

But there are lots of nods to the original Wizard of Oz through the movie, so you can see Dorothy and the Scarecrow and all that sort of stuff in the open then bit. Yeah, and also later on with the Wizard when he's showing them the kind of model that he has of Oz, he picks up the house and tosses it and it's meant to show like going through the tornado and all those little bits. Is also when they put the lion cub in the back of the basket, which was also another scene added for the movie from the musical, it's alluding to the original movie where she's on the bicycle and then it transitions to her being the wicked Witch.

So many things, so many things. It's so so good.

Yeah, there were so many little extra bits added in there, like how did the yellow brick rogu get its color? A bit unnecessary plot point, but I you know, we all knew whether it were like yeah, and I'm.

Like, you know what, the pink also looked quite good.

And also adding in things that were not in the musical that I think really heightened the movie as well, is that in the musical, Fierro's entry the first time you see him is so infamous where he gets brought in in the horse and carriage and he's passed out in the back and you know this whole thing of him like waking up drunk at school days later, And in the movie they added that moment where he and Alphabet meet for the first time alone in the woods and away from and she jokes his face. I mean that comes later after they save the cub together. So when Alphabe's spell puts everyone else in the classroom, even Glinda, to sleep, but not Fiero. It's alluding to that scene in the Wizard of Oz where the other characters go to sleep from the poppies, but not the Scarecrow. So so many things alluding to what's going to come. Actually, there's quite a few times that allude to him becoming the Scarecrow. So in Dancing through Life, there he's dancing like the scare He dances like the Scarecrow. When he did that, I was like, oh, my heart can't take it. And then also he dances past some images of corn fields, and that's also alluding to him.

Even Slater dances like the tin Men.

Yes, And also at one stage, Glinda puts like a red handkerchief and Box up a pocket, which is to show the tin Man later on getting his heart. And then also Box says, yeah, I cry a lot, which is something that the Tin Men obviously rusted himself by crying. And I'm like, stop alluding to the terrible thing's gonna happen to all of you. But very clever and a really nice service for the fans who were just looking for those moments. Please everyone take your seats.

In today's ours, real sorcerer who possesses true magic has become all too rare muck. That was you who made all that happen. How did you do it?

I don't know. I've never known.

You're the one the Wizard has been waiting for. Something has changed with.

I mean, there were so many hugely emotional moments in this movie, so many funny moments, so many wonderful moments. And I think the moment in the Shit's Ballroom where Glinda hold her hand against Elpheba's face, and I think that's the real moment where and she says, you see that, Yeah, you see their friendship. Their friendship really cement itself. But even before that, in What Is This Feeling, which again is such an iconic song where it's a scene that was added for the movie, but you see them having the sparring match in the song, and I just love that because it's alluding to the throw down fight they're going to have in the second movie, you know, on the corn field where they can't wait, but we have some bitch laps happening, which is lovely. But I think the one moment that was really emotional for me was One Short Day, which is when they're in the Emerald City and they're seeing everything, and that's such an emotional moment too, because that's when you have that line in the song, which is we're two good friends and then she has no two best friends. Yeah, but also that is when and I'm so glad that I didn't know this was going to happen, like.

We wait before you get okay, I just wanted to say something my one tip. Okay, I wanted to see more of the Emerald City right, like I didn't. I think that part was really rushed, like them getting to the Emerald City going wow wow, and then we get like two big surprises. Yeah it's meant to be, which is like, wanted that one hundred percent all there. Then they rushed inside and I'm like, oh wait, I wanted to see more of the Emerald City, like I know.

See, there's so many people out there who are like, I can't believe this movie was two hours and forty minutes, and you are people who like you and I, who were like.

Make it four hours, you cows.

I would have watched four hours of this, I know because we were seeing like just moments from OZ and this is where they use a lot of the cameos. I had people who originally had written Wicked in there. Stephen Schwartz, the composer, is the soldier who lets them into the castle. And then we have the biggest cameo of the whole movie. And I don't know if you noticed. I was really trying to hide it, but this is when my body started like absolutely shaking, yelped, yelped, And this is when like I like, I didn't think I made a noise in this part because my boy I was crying.

So hard, row was shaking.

Okay, well, I couldn't help it. I was trying to keep it in, which is when I Dina Menzel and Christian Channelwith appeared and I did obviously have an inkling they were going to be in it, but I think when they came out and they were striking a lot of the original poses that they used in the original stage.

Show and with the same like dynamic as well.

Yeah, and they were sort of playing into some in jokes about how sometimes they would do pressed together they were both seeing and then Christian would be like, no, no, like stop its mind tone kind of thing, and they started doing that, and I just thinking about the history and what these women have created, and oh, I'm gonna cry out.

We think about it just is the history what this show.

Is meant to people, and seeing it in that scene was so freaking magical, and I just think, like I don't always love when fan service is like pushed into movies in that way. Sometimes it can ruin the story a bit, but I think in this moment, it was just the perfect fan service.

And even the interviews they've given for it, like you can see they are so supportive of this film, like wholeheartedly, Like the way Kristen talks about Ariana and like how proud she is of her and how not only did she like make Glinda like her own character, but she did her complete justice. Like I think being Cynthia or even and Arina, granted, that's all you would have wanted in that role because it would have come with so much pressure to live up to these.

Massive characters one hundred percent. And this is why I feel very protective about Ariana and Cynthia on this press too, and people being like, oh, they're so serious, Why are they crying? Why are they acting so over the top, And it's like they came into this so aware of the emotion that other people were bringing to this, and it's like they have to prove every second that they understand the stakes are so high, they stand the characters, and they understand what a huge moment this is for people, Like they cannot be flipp into about it.

Every interview was starting the interview saying this movie means so much to me, and then they're probably like, yes, we know.

I know.

Literally I had like tears in my eyes at the end of my interwers trying to hold it. In the end, I was like, so thank you so much. It just means so much to me, Like it's not just my favorite musical, it's my everything in the world. And they're like, and I was like, I gotta go, and I like ran out of it. It was so much. So then we're getting into yeah, as you're saying the big plot twist of the movie, you have Madame Morrible who's arriving Michelle Yoe's in her element.

Did you get here so fast? We literally just got off the train.

She was on the other end of the train, so and I love how like she's meant to be very regal, but also there's all these hidden details in her costume and her hair and makeup because her power is to control the weather, her hair is it's very style, but it's styled if you look closely into it's meant to look like little tornadoes.

All through her hair.

Also alluding to the way that she murders people later on fire.

I like it was one of those scenes she'd play that character so so well that she was the only character in this whole movie that I actually forgot her hidden memo, Like I actually forgot what like.

She really was, Yeah, because she just did it so well. Yeah, one hundred percent. And then we come into finding out the Wizard's secret, and I think this is where you really see so much of Alphabet's character come to life and the importance of who she.

Is, and like, I think you see her finally understanding her purpose and what she realizes that she needs to do as well.

And it's such a brilliant performance by Cynthia, because I think when people talk about Alphabet as a character or they talk about Cynthia's performance, they really attached to those kind of because she has so many big musical moments. She has the Wizard and I and she has define gravity and I'm not that girl is such an incredible song. But I also think the power of Cynthia's performance. And this is why it's so important to cast an actress who is both a film actress and a stage actress, is that she can do those big moments, those big Broadway belts in a way that not to single someone out, but in a way like someone like an Emma Watson, who was in Biddy and the Beast and is a fairly good film actress in terms of that she can control her face in front of the camera, but she even with the amount of auto tune, she cannot and just her movements, she can't register that level of emotion through song on.

Screen effortlessly as well, because they are live singing, so they also have to work on that transition between acting and singing and then straightaway back to acting and also having to do their own stunts and being in the air and then going back to acting while being in the air.

Yeah, it's so many moving parts. So just in these there's moments where the camera is just sitting so close on Cynthia's face and through the green makeup. By the way, apparently they had to have like thirty different tries of different green to find the right green and also one that wouldn't.

Reflect the same paint as the original.

No rop Cynthoryo that would have been. And they've even just got she's got prosthetic ears on all these things to give her this very uncanny look, because as we find out later on, she's a child of two worlds, unlike everyone else in the Moon, which is why she has this not just the green elixir, but why she has all these different appearances and powers. And I think there's so many times where Cynthia is just acting with her eyes when you see the emotion passed through and you see the realization, and then you see her throw away the one thing she wanted, which was acceptance in order.

To go and fight for the animals.

And haven't even talked about Peter Dinklage is what a voice performance so good? And also the fact that in the stage show you don't see other animals, like doctor Diloman makes a joke about being the token goat, and I thought that was a nice change to how they brought the other animals in and everything.

But another thing that will make the second part way more heart wrenching.

Oh my god, no, I can't watch. I've seen I'm walking out. I know exactly what you're talking about. And what I think also is so wonderful about not just Cynthia Rivo's performance, but Alphabet in general, is that she goes through this big transformation, and normally and pop culture, a transformation like that would be physical, like it would be a makeover. She would have acceptance via looking more beautiful, looking a certain way, and the fact that she in a way, she doesn't have a make over in any way she has a make under because Glinda is the one at the end who I mean. She also gives her the black hat that she becomes known for. Halfway through the movie, but towards the end that really pivotal scene where she goes and gets the cloak and wraps it around her and says, elfa, you're shivering, and it's it's such an interesting example of how something like a beautiful moment if you know the story behind it, it's so beautiful, like that's a friend keeping another friend warm in a moment of trauma. And then, as you know, if you watch the later part of the movie but also the original Wizard of Oz movie, that Kate becomes synonymous. Yeah, it's a simple terror and fear and seeing it fly behind her through the air and then it just yeah, it just goes to show how things can be corrupted if you don't know the backstory.

Okay, you need to write essay.

I've written my whole life is running.

Do you want to talk about poor Chesstree and the monkey's turning? Ah, I've got to say, that wasn't it. I actually find that, in a weird sense, much more terrifying to watch in the stage.

Show Let's get the Shit out of Me in the movie, yeah did it?

Also it's too busy crying.

I wasn't wantying attention to you.

God, I was like terrified. I was like horror, horror in front.

Of me body, horror come to life on stage because in the stage show, like in the movie, you're only used to think that she's doing it to one monkey. And then in the stage show, the curtains fly up at the back and the music plays and the lights are red, and you just see all of these flying monkeys and their actors writing in pain and writing on the floor, and it's very visceral in the stage show. And I think it worked okay in the movie, but I think maybe this is one case where it was a bit too CGI for my liking.

Yeah, because they really focused in on like the actual I guess the wings coming out, yeah, the monkey, like the actual like procedure of it, rather than like the overall emotion of it. And but what I really liked about that like going back to to the arrivo and like acting with her eyes, like when the camera just focuses on her and she sees what she realizes she has done. But not only that, but then she realizes exactly how much power she does yea, at the same time learning that she's the only person in the whole of Oz to have that much power. You just see like she has the most perfect like brow furrow. Yeah, where you're just like, oh my god, you're seeing her learning all of these things while we're also learning all of these things unless you watch the musical obviously at the same time, and that split decision to realize what she's done run away, and then but also at the same time fight for exactly what she did and try to undo all of that pain that she suddenly caused. It's just like done so quickly but so well. And then that last scene where they're like together in the attic by themselves and they getting the hot air balloon. It doesn't work.

Out, yeah, the Hot air but I loved all the hot air balloon messaging throughout the movie. There's a few times that happened because you know, that's such a big part of the original film. However Wizard gets there, but also how you know Dorothy is supposed to go home and then does it, and coming into the last scene and so obviously so much the movie is building two Defying Gravity, which is where part one ends, and that's where the intermission of the Broadway Show happens. A lot of anger from people from putting it into two movies, which I had also when I first heard it was going to be two movies, I felt like it was a cash grab, and I think it's fair to say it definitely is a cash grab. But also I just think there's so much story in there.

But I would have said there for six hours, honestly.

No, I was. You saw me afterwards, I was could not. I was blubbering mess and crying on the street afterwards. So no, couldn't have done that defining gravity. They changed a little bit, but I think that's not really changing the lyrics and just.

Changed the change It I got confused about that.

It's just more so that there's just a few more different notes and the way it's sung and performed, it's a different arrangement.

And there's like a little bit more talking. Yeah, and there's visual stuff like they hold a lot of gaps for to visually see her flying around.

Yeah.

And that's the thing about seeing the different stage shows of Wicked is that every production and every performer puts their own spin on alfhe Bro and Englen. So every time you see these iconic songs perform, they're a bit different. So I was expecting them to be different in the movie. So with defining Gravity, yeah, they had longer breaks to show action, so to show her flying through and that idea of her seeing her younger self and how it transforms into the broom was added for the movie.

Ah.

I loved the symbolism of it. I like it now more that I thought about it. But in the moment, I just want to hear the song of the lyrics, and I just wanted to Yeah.

I was saying I didn't like it because I was singing along. Yeah that kind of throw me off.

Yeah, You're like, this isn't the first I know I think maybe for me, now that I look at it as the ending of a movie, not the ending of a musical, I can see how well it works in terms of setting up the story and the character and having this moment where you have this Catharsis from this bullied little girl to finding out who she really isn't and throwing away everything she ever wanted and reconciling with her younger self like I'm sorry, I threw away what we wanted, but this next thing is going to be more important. It's going to be better. And you see her sort of have that moment, and when you're watching it as a musical theater fan, you just want the song to continue and you don't want to have all those pausing moments for exposition. But as a storytelling element, I feel that it worked really well. And obviously, when Cynthia hits that high note, like all bets.

Are off, she's actually in the room, And I think.

So much is really put on Alphabet's character in that moment. But I think the other more interesting thing and what makes her such an interesting character, and I hate wh people write her off as a bimbo is like Glinda, what she does in that moment of choosing to stay behind and choosing power and popularity at the end of the day over friendship is such a big character moment for her, and I loved how they show that the movie, when Madame Morrible, who hates Glinda but all of a sudden realizes like she's so clever, she's doing damage control straight away. She's like, I've got to get this woman on my side. When you see Madame Morrible hug Glinda and then the camera closes in on Glinda's hand and she's got hands around matter Morrible, but she's almost still deciding what to do, and when she leans and hugs her tightly, like you see Glinda's hand tighten, it's seeing the decision of her throwing away her friendship and choosing power and privilege overdoing what's right, and kind of cementing where her story is going to go.

Oh, so many things.

I'm just not ready for part two, which is coming out next year, and it's like.

I mean, we'll be ready then, but now, oh, it's a.

Year long intermission.

But that's fine, But you know, overall, you had any of.

Us Brutally honest reviewal Part two, twenty twenty five it's coming.

But Yeah, overall, I think it's an incredible adaptation of an incredible show, and I think the more people I know, like musical theater fans, are really protective of it. But I just think the more people that have access to this story and these songs, the better, Like, you know, more wicked in the world.

A weekend watch it is.

A weekend watch time where we give you TV and movie recommendations that have been out this week that you can watch over the weekend and then tell us how good they were. I'm gonna go first because I saw a little on Netflix film. I'm keeping in the theme of me just constantly recommending Christmas movies because our friend Lindsay Lohan, friend of the podcast, Are you happy interviewed her yet? No?

No, no, no, no, I haven't interviewed her. I've only we did interview her for the side I outsourced that one. I've only ever met her and Bean Starstock.

Okay, Well, she's in a brand new film on Netflix. It's kind of a holiday romantic comedy that stars her who plays this woman named Avery, and Ian Harding, who you would know from Pritticlar Life. He has a bit of a problematic character. Yes, he was a great character when I was younger, but as an adult watching back and really lies, I'm like, that's a bit weird, like a cep, a bit of a creep. He plays logan And it kind of revolves around them having a really awkward Christmas reunion. Why because they were ex lovers to the point where they nearly got engaged, and now they realized that the partners that they're dating are siblings and they have to spend Christmas together and they're trying to keep this huge secret from everyone, including the matriarch of the household, who is played by Kristin Chenowith from Wicked as the Mum, who tries to kind of like unravel. All mums know something is up. She knows something is up, and it all goes to pretty much shit. But it is so so funny, it's so good. It's one of those kind of holiday movies that you just put on. You have a glass of wine, mulled wine, maybe you eat like a little pie and you just have the best time of your life. This is called Our Little Secret out on Netflix right now.

Imagine this.

I'm spending the holidays with my boyfriend's family, for the first time. This is for you. Look, it's a screw talk that's from Easy.

Here we go. He has a lot of family members, too many to remember, and his sister is also bringing someone.

I want you to meet Logan, my ex will you No, Logan, I will not marry you.

It's so great to meet you.

Yeah, you cannot tell anyone about us, and this is funny. The last thing I need is to get out woman ammunition. Do we have an understanding?

You are a nightmare?

I love that.

Well.

I'm also recommending a movie and it has a bit of also a Christmas tinge to it.

I guess we're getting into that type of thanks that time here.

You know, I appreciate that.

So this is a new original Australian movie that's premiering this week on Sunday, put in your calendar, called How to Make Gravy And Yes, it is based on the lyrics of the iconic Paul Kelly's song.

Who's going to make the Gravy?

I've been a Wrong Place the same, which has become a real Aussie classic over the years, to the point where Gravy Days being now named as December twenty one and people celebrate the song worldwide.

It's a whole situation that.

Is also my parents wedding anniversary.

No do they know they got married on Gravy Day.

I don't think same for them.

So the song has been adapted into a movie by Nick Waterman and it also has original music by Aria Award winning musician Meghan Washington. Fun fact, Nick and Meaghan are married and they are like a creative Yet you hate people who are both like happily married and in love and they're also both creative genuses and they work together to create things.

Hate that.

So is it a musical.

It's got music woven into it.

It's not like it's not like a Wicked level.

Production or anything like that. So it tells the story of a prisoner named Joe who writes letter to his brother Dan, longing to be with family at Christmas. It's got a really incredible cast. So Joe is played by Daniel Henschel, who people would know from Snowtown and Mystery Road origin. A little No One actor called Hugo Weaving from a Little Knowen franchise Lord of the Rings but also Love Me on Bind which is a great show, plays Noel who throws a lifeline to Joe in prison, a really incredible austrayed cast, including Kate mulvaney, who is one of my favorite stage actresses and also in this movie. And yeah, it's just a really incredibly made you feel good. Yeah, there's a lot of elements of that, and also just a really incredibly made a strain production.

He's telling everyone you'll be home for his birthday, will you?

I'll be out of you by July with good behavior. Sunta real sin, do you think it's easy to get sucked into a lot?

The history shit in here and at some point I realize and they have alive? So how to make gravy? It's out on Binge this weekend. Make sure you watch it and suport this movie.

Thank you so much for listening to The Spill today. We know you love our Broodley honest reviews and guess what, we love doing them. We've done a bunch of them this year. We will put a few links to them in our show notes, including our latest one before Wicked, Gladiator two, which still holds up as my favorite one we've done so far. The Spill is produced by Kimberly Bradish, with audio production by Scott Stronik. We will be back in your podcast feed at three pm on Monday.

Bye bye,