The SpillWhat exactly can I do in my lunch break (is a pottery class a go?)? And how does a new graduate get an entry-level role if all job ads ask for experience?!
Welcome to BIZ Inbox, your new workplace group chat where we answer the burning questions you definitely can't ask your boss.
Writer and podcaster Em Vernem teams up with career coach Soph Hirst to tackle your trickiest workplace dilemmas.
If you want your work life issue solved, send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au.
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HOSTS: Soph Hirst and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Georgie Page
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that this podcast is recorded on Spillers. Hello, m venom here. I have been very busy lately, not just because of the spill but because I've been working on a brand new podcast called Biz. I've already had so many messages from friends saying that this is exactly what they needed, so I hope you'll love it as well. Beers tackles everything from awkward pay rise conversations to dealing with colleagues who steal your ideas. No more generic advice, just real strategies from women who've been there, done that. It's hosted by me m Vernham, Michelle Battisby, who's an entrepreneur that launched Bumble in Australia and now runs her own startup called Sunroom, and Sophurst. Soph took the lead from Google to launch work Baby. It's a career coaching program for people in their early career era, just like myself. In this episode that you're about to hear, we answer three work questions. One can I date a coworker? Two? How to get experience for a job when you can't get hired in entry level positions. And three reasonable things to do during your lunch break and spoilers. You can do way more than I thought. Enjoy this episode and if you like it and want to listen every week, there's a link in our show notes to all of the Epps. Hello, and welcome back to biz Inbox. I'm m Ven. I'm a podcaster and writer here at Mama Mia. And look, I do have a toxic work behavior that I feel like I need to confess right now, and it's that I'm constantly stealing pens from other people's desks. I am making eyes with our producer Taylor because I stole this pen I'm holding right now from her desk and I'm here joined with.
And I'm so pursed. Wait are you stealing them from other people's desk?
Correct personal pens?
Yes? Do you give them back at the end?
It depends on my day, Like sometimes I forget. I think they're all my pens. So if anyone who works up on me just wants to do like a little go past my desk, you.
Can pick up your lands for bias.
They're just there. I need one, I need one, so bis inbox. Every week, we're going to be answering your burning questions about work. Nothing is off the tables, and we're not going to give you the big, flowery like hustle culture answers. We're going to give you straight answers that you need so you can avoid having that meant to be at your desk, which I know you do have.
Today we're dealing with matters of the heart work experience, and also just how sacred your lunch hour actually is.
I am very excited for that question, in particular because I have very strong feelings about my lunch hour. Let's get into it. So our very first question of the week is our very first voicemail as well. It's from an anonymous submission. This is what they said, Hi, I've.
Just got a question for the pod. What do you guys think about dating coworkers? Is it weird?
No wonder? This was anonymous.
Yeah, totally. Have you dated a co worker?
I have not. I would if there was options to date coworkers working among MEA there's a very small pool of single men that come through here.
So true. I think going into the office when you have a crush on someone just makes it so much more fun to go into work.
I get excited to go to work, but I feel like it would also be super risky.
Yeah it is, I guess. I actually wanted to look up how many people have data a coworker. Do you know what the number is?
Surely like forty percent.
It's half. Half of people who responded said they've actually dated a co worker, which was way higher than I expected.
Most of them successful.
I don't know. I'd chat gptat it's me you know two seconds. But at bigger companies there are actually guidelines around this, and I think especially in like a post me too world, probably more companies have guidelines and they're probably a little bit more clear. So at Google, for example, if you were having a relationship with someone, you actually had to declare it if they were in your team or if you were in the same reporting line. And if you were in the same reporting line, that wasn't actually allowed to be a thing, so you either had to change teams or you couldn't have the relationship. But there was actually like a formal process for it. Kind of thing.
What if you didn't know what your relationship even, what if you're like in a situationship that would actually be good for people who are scared of situationship of dating, you have to be like, well, we have to confirm it to the workplace.
So true, maybe you should just be as a process around this year. I think that kind of leads to some of my points around timing. But the other thing I think was really funny. When I was working in New York, there was a creative agency who actually had a benefits policy where if two co workers got engaged, they would pay for the wedding. Oh I know, how good is that insane? Yes, it's because they were based in like Colorado, and they really wanted to attract good talents, so like, if you move here and you hook up with, you know, someone else who's in the team, then we'll pay for the wedding. I thought that was pretty cool.
Oh my god, that Christmas part is to be wild totally.
But you know what you actually do, like, is it okay? Is weird? I think one just make sure you do understand your company policy around it. But to your point around timing and sort of like the flow of communication, so it can obviously be so much fun, but then you know at some point people are going to find out or you're going to need to tell people maybe, and like, do you want to be in control of that flow of information or do you want it to happen for you? Yeah, what do you think?
Well, that's so true. I also feel like there's no way it wouldn't affect my work, especially if it doesn't work out and then you're just seeing this person every day who like you've both breaken each other's heart maybe, and I think that would just be really hard, especially if you.
Love your job. Yeah, I think you have to definitely think about your reputation because it's like it's a funny thing, right, it's like your personal life. It really shouldn't be anything to do with work, but it kind of is because it can change the way that you're actually showing up at work. And I think maybe even possibly for women, it can affect your reputation more than men. I'm not sure. Maybe it's different now in a post me to world. Maybe it's very hard for men. But once you know that it is serious, maybe have a think about letting a manager know and just showing up and saying like, Hey, this isn't actually going to affect me and my role, I'm committed whatever it is, so maybe think about that. But I do think it's tricky if you're just dating someone or hooking up, like.
I would say, either a relationship or nothing. Yeah, no situationships, no casual sex. Sorry, I know I sound like a nanner, But don't do it. It's not worth it. So this next question comes in from Sarah. Here's what she says.
I just graduated from UNI and I'm looking for an entry level job. But all the jobs want someone with experience and I.
Don't have any because I just left UNI.
I'm so confused. What do I do?
Oh, Sarah. I feel like, especially with young people coming into the workforce, it feels like every single generation gets hit with the same obstacle. And I got hit with it as well when I joined the workforce full time straight after UNI. Because every job I went to apply for they just had these requirements that I was nowhere close to meeting. Like it was always three to six years of experience, or you had to have this certain degree, or you had to do this. No one told me that I could still apply even though I didn't meet all the requirements. And it was only when so I was actually scouted for this job. I started as a social media assistant. HR actually messaged me on LinkedIn and was like, Hey, we'd love for you to apply to this role. And I looked at the job description and I was like, I don't meet any of these, like any of these at all. And I told my mom and my mom was like, yeah, you probably won't get it, but you've never interviewed before, so why didn't you just give it a go? And I was like okay, and then I got the job. No way, And I just hate that so many especially I feel like it's mainly young women who if they don't meet like one hundred percent of the requirement, they just won't do it.
I totally agreat. I think there's this thing where you think you don't have the skills and experience but you actually do. So don't think about what you don't have, think about what you do have, but it's sort of about how you package it up and showcase it interesting. So I remember this so deeply as well. So I grew up in regional New South Wales. My dad was a trade my mom is a preschool teacher. I knew no one from the world of business. I go to Sydney Union get a marketing degree. I feel like I have no practical skills on knowledge. I went for one internship, didn't get it. I was like, that was embarrassing. I'm never trying that again. And I just remember feeling so lost. I was working at a bar, met this customer and she worked in marketing. I remember leaving my side of the bar and just clutching her hands and being like, help me. Can I take you for coffee? Can I learn about your Like? I just don't know what to do. There's two things that I want to say. If I was sort of like starting out again twenty twenty five, I'm in this death loop of no experience but can't get the job, need the job to get the experience. Here's what I'm going to say. One, go and meet people who are doing the job that you want to do and just ask them, you know, what's your job, Like what are the skills that you need for someone who doesn't have experience in that actual job? Like what are some of the transferable skills? And what you're going to find comes up all the time is things like project management, writing events does, like knowing how to use camb but whatever. There's all these kind of skills that you actually do have you know, have you worked in retail, have you trained other people up before in a team? Do you have sales skills? So there's probably skills that you do have, and then it's just about how you actually showcase those. So what I think people need this is not about just having like a LinkedIn profile kind of like build something or make something, create something that can live a little bit online to show that you've got these skills and you can do that outside your job. So I'll give you some examples. Maybe it's like you build your own sub stack and you have like your subsat newsletter. Maybe it's like you start a little online community and you do meetups and then you're like having some little place online where you show what you're doing there. Like maybe it is that you're involved in clubs and societies at UNI and we're doing event organization whatever. You need to be doing some stuff that shows you know, you can manage your project, you can like do things, and there needs to be a place online where people can go and see that. And I think just like packaging up and showcasing some of that stuff, you can do that regardless of whether you have a job or not. And then meeting people, point them to that and show them that, and then I think that's the better way to do it.
That's so smart. Also, I think what's really important is figuring out the values of the company that you kind of want to work for and what they appreciate. Like here at Mummia, we really appreciate creativity. And I remember one of my colleagues and this when I was working in the social media team, Mattie King. She got her job because she created an Instagram page saying why Mummy should hire me? And she did like all these posts about her whole life story and we were like immediately yes, Like it was just so Mumma Mia, and was so perfect and she was brilliant and she nailed the interview.
It was so good. I absolutely love that, Like massive inspiration. I actually got my job at Google because I had a music blog. Like you think that's nothing to do with tech marketing, right, but it actually is because the transferable skill there is creativity and like being able to create a brand. So I had this little music blog. It was called the Perfect Five. It was just five songs every week. That was really cute. This is like back in the day, cook.
I find it, we need to post it on the business instead.
Some screenshots of it and we will post it on the on the ground for sure. But I remember like showing this in the interview and talking about how I was really resourceful because they were like, did you pay someone to build this? And this is back in the day when it was pretty hard. It's like, no, I didn't pay someone. I like traded some of my friends. You know, I did some stuff with them, they did this, So they're like, oh, you're resourceful. You know you've got this done for free. You've got influence because you're getting friends to do stuff, and you've got creativity. So all these transferable skills that I was showcasing just because I had a music bog and it wasn't even that successful. It's like, no, I had people following me, but it was just like, you know, you've got something online where you're showing people like I can do something.
That's so good, So just like get creative with it. Just put yourself out there and yes, yah, don't rely on your LinkedIn profile. Actually like message people on LinkedIn, Like follow the people that you want to work with, the work for and message them and just be like Can I take you that for a coffee?
One hundred percent? Can I give you one more thing that I would do? Yeah, I was doing this now. I would find people who have the jobs I want. I would offer to take my coffee every I just like a fifteen minute chat on the phone if you've got a vibe with them. I would actually offer, can I shadow you when you go to industry events and like write up some insights of what you learned at that event and post for LinkedIn for you or a lot of people struggle with having nicely designed slides, right, so I would offer, Hey, I'm pretty handy on camber. I'm gonna design some slide templates for you to use for your presentations. And I would like sort of do some stuff for people to show you've got skills and build a relationship like that.
That's so smart. Okay, So we're coming up to a break. So after the break, we're going to be talking about a very serious question that involves my all important lunch break. So this next question comes from Bridget and she actually sent this through our Instagram DMS. You can follow us on Instagram at bisby Mama Mia. We do heaps of posts on there and please slide into our DMS with any questions you have. She wanted to know what are some reasonable things she could do during her lunch break? Like, she wanted to know, is it okay to take her our lunch break to go to the gym or to go shopping? So what do you reckon?
Well, bridget on my lunch break. I used to go and get botox.
That's smart.
I mean the short answer is it's your lunch break, so do whatever the hell you want with it. Obviously, there's some caveats to this, so yeah, like at bigger companies, they might actually have guidance around this. You might say something in your contract about how long your lunch break is, and you know it's going to be different with different roles if you're doing shift work or whatever. But let's just say like a normal office job, right, It's really a question around team norms and company norms and how much you have your shit together. If you are doing your job and you've got your shit together, you should be able to do whatever you want with that time. I want to rebrand the lunch hour, the lunch lunchtime, right, I want to rebrand this. I love a rebrand Yeah, it's not your lunch time. It is your reset time, and so I think it's a really important part actually of the day. We can't just work for eight hours straight, like you actually need that time in the middle of the day to properly reset. So it's your reset time and you should be protecting it. And people are going to try and steal that time from you, and I think you should protect it. Just a couple of things proactively communicate around like that is your time. So I would always make sure and I would tell my team just like block your lunch hour out in your calendar, and I would even set mine. There's a thing you can do in Gmail where you set it to out of office, so it would just order a decline of tract to book meetings over it.
But let me write that down auto the client.
That was the culture we had to google. Maybe you don't try that if that's not you.
I wasn't going to call our producers out, but we are recording this at twelve forty five people.
It really is I think just around kind of proactively communicating, and if you're a manager, I think you should be having conversations with your team around like what is normal to do on your lunch break, right. I remember there was a manager at Google who actually used to just put gon surfing kind of thing and block that time if it wasn't even in this launch break. But the reason that worked is if you proactively communicate like I'm out of the office at this time, he's obviously getting his work done, he's on top of your shit. You sort of should be in control of your own time. You have to think about your reputation and how you're showing up and not to be taking the piss. So one thing to watch out for is I think a lot of people will say, can I eat my lunch at my desk during my lunch hour and then take off like two to three pm to go and do yoga? And like, technically you should if you have a conversation with your manager and they're cool with that and like there's no other important meetings, and technically that's okay. But I think there can be a bit of creep sometimes where it's like you kind of aren't really doing your work during that lunchtime because you're eating, and then you're just taking off this time as well, and it kind of interior afternoon.
So yeah, I think it's dependent on the person. Are you able to question do you have to be transparent of what you're doing in your lunch break? Like what if I want to go see my therapist.
Not need to tell anyone. I mean it is your lunch Again, it comes around to companies and teams should be talking about this and check you contract. I'm not an HI expert, so check your contract. But you shouldn't have to tell anyone what you're doing in your lunch hour, like that is your time. The one thing that you should be doing is letting people know that you're not contactable, so like because sometimes people need stuff right or like it's really hard to book time with people into book meetings if you're not having that in your calendar and someone does see that as a free slot and then they want to book something there and you're like, actually, I was planning to go and do like a hairdresser appointment. It can just be really hard for people, So block it out in advance. I would always have that hour blocked out in my calendar and yeah, just communicate around if someone tries to book a meeting and that you can just say like, hey, this is my reset time is this meeting important, Can we do it another time or.
Yeah, lunchtime's out, reset times in.
Yeah, that's it.
Well, thank you so much for helping us clear our little biz in box. If you have a work question, please send it our way. You'll find exactly how to do that in our show notes, or of course you can always slide into our DM so always open for you.
If you missed it earlier. This week, Michelle and I taught you how to be more productive while doing less at work.
It was so good. Oh my god.
Head back into the feed to hear to ultimate productivity.
We will be back in your ears next week.
Bye bye
