Does meditating feel like a chore, another to do list item to check off, or perhaps it's even fallen off the list entirely. If you sense that meditating regularly would benefit you, but you struggle to find a sustainable place for it in your schedule, I can help. There are reasons people struggle with creating and maintaining a meditation practice, and it isn't because meditation isn't right for them. In my free guide the top five reasons you can't seem to stick with a meditation practice and how to build one that lasts, I teach you why it can be a struggle to build a meditation practice that lasts, and the small fixes that can have a big impact when it comes to getting you where you want to be with meditating regularly. Go to oneufeed dot net and sign up for this free guide right on our homepage.

Does meditating feel like a chore, another to do list item to check off, or perhaps it's even fallen off the list entirely. If you sense that meditating regularly would benefit you, but you struggle to find a sustainable place for it in your schedule, I can help. There are reasons people struggle with creating and maintaining a meditation practice, and it isn't because meditation isn't right for them. In my free guide the top five reasons you can't seem to stick with a meditation practice and how to build one that lasts, I teach you why it can be a struggle to build a meditation practice that lasts, and the small fixes that can have a big impact when it comes to getting you where you want to be with meditating regularly. Go to oneufeed dot net and sign up for this free guide right on our homepage.

Ultimately, love is the most powerful force, and it's the uniting force, and that's what we're hoping to be able to do with our mission.

Ultimately, love is the most powerful force, and it's the uniting force, and that's what we're hoping to be able to do with our mission.

Welcome to the one you feed Throughout. Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guests on this episode are the founders of the Holistic Life Foundation, Smith Atman Smith and Andre Gonzalez. They talk about their new book, let Your Light Shine, How Mindfulness Can Empower children and rebuild Communities. In the book, they describe how they have spent the last twenty years teaching yoga, meditation, and breath work to thousands of at risk kids in Baltimore schools, helping them to develop deep reserves of patience, empathy, resolve, and when needed, the righteous anger that fuels deep structural change. Their work has received wide national attention due to the remarkable results. The schools that have participated in their programs have seen suspension rates plummet and graduation rates go through the roof.

Welcome to the one you feed Throughout. Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guests on this episode are the founders of the Holistic Life Foundation, Smith Atman Smith and Andre Gonzalez. They talk about their new book, let Your Light Shine, How Mindfulness Can Empower children and rebuild Communities. In the book, they describe how they have spent the last twenty years teaching yoga, meditation, and breath work to thousands of at risk kids in Baltimore schools, helping them to develop deep reserves of patience, empathy, resolve, and when needed, the righteous anger that fuels deep structural change. Their work has received wide national attention due to the remarkable results. The schools that have participated in their programs have seen suspension rates plummet and graduation rates go through the roof.

Andy, Ali and Atman, Welcome to the show.

Andy, Ali and Atman, Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having us, Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us, Thanks for having us.

Yeah, we appreciate it.

Yeah, we appreciate it.

Yeah, thank you guys for being here. We're going to be discussing your book called Let Your Light Shine, how mindfulness can empower children and rebuild communities, and we'll also be talking about your great work with the Holistic Life Foundation, which is an organization that you you guys founded probably over twenty years ago. But before we do, we'll start like we always do, with the parable. In the parable, there's a grandparent they're talking with their grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always a battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops. They think about it for a second. They look up at their grandparent and they say, well, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you guys, in your life and in the work that you do.

Yeah, thank you guys for being here. We're going to be discussing your book called Let Your Light Shine, how mindfulness can empower children and rebuild communities, and we'll also be talking about your great work with the Holistic Life Foundation, which is an organization that you you guys founded probably over twenty years ago. But before we do, we'll start like we always do, with the parable. In the parable, there's a grandparent they're talking with their grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always a battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops. They think about it for a second. They look up at their grandparent and they say, well, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you guys, in your life and in the work that you do.

I know. One thing that jumps right out to me is like it sounds like yoga in its traditional form, you know what I mean. It's like your ego versus your universal consciousness, you know what I mean. Like you have a choice of where you put your conscious awareness and where you put your energy. So it's like, can be that higher of operational stuff for that low of our rational stuff. I mean, it's all just energy, but it's a matter of where you put your awareness and your effort, so you can either feed your connection to your universal consciousness or the separate nature of your ego to.

I know. One thing that jumps right out to me is like it sounds like yoga in its traditional form, you know what I mean. It's like your ego versus your universal consciousness, you know what I mean. Like you have a choice of where you put your conscious awareness and where you put your energy. So it's like, can be that higher of operational stuff for that low of our rational stuff. I mean, it's all just energy, but it's a matter of where you put your awareness and your effort, so you can either feed your connection to your universal consciousness or the separate nature of your ego to.

Build off of that. It also reminds me of something I teach. Your uncle Will used to always talk about, like sanskaras or habit patterns. What they say is like when you do something over and over again, it tightens its yoke on your individual consciousness, and that's what you're prone to do. But the more that you catch those habit patterns before they actually form or thought constructs, before they actually form into actual action, they loosen their yoke or grip on your individual consciousness. So if it's you know, those bad wolves that you know is feeding you know your ego, and you know it's detrimental to your consciousness, health, enlightenment and all that stuff. You kind of want to like let them slide or let them go and bring about more positive habit patterns. And the more you do that, the more that those habits and will form, and you know those things our teacher used to always say, those negative habits will fall off like a scab. So you know, to me, that is what pops in my mind when you talk about the good wolf and the bad wolf is sanscers.

Build off of that. It also reminds me of something I teach. Your uncle Will used to always talk about, like sanskaras or habit patterns. What they say is like when you do something over and over again, it tightens its yoke on your individual consciousness, and that's what you're prone to do. But the more that you catch those habit patterns before they actually form or thought constructs, before they actually form into actual action, they loosen their yoke or grip on your individual consciousness. So if it's you know, those bad wolves that you know is feeding you know your ego, and you know it's detrimental to your consciousness, health, enlightenment and all that stuff. You kind of want to like let them slide or let them go and bring about more positive habit patterns. And the more you do that, the more that those habits and will form, and you know those things our teacher used to always say, those negative habits will fall off like a scab. So you know, to me, that is what pops in my mind when you talk about the good wolf and the bad wolf is sanscers.

The same thing with me when the same thing with the Domina said sandscarves immediately popped into my head as well. But just to throw another kind of viewpoint out why I was talking about, I was like, I don't want to say the same thing, you know what I mean. I was thinking about also how sometimes when we've discussed the concept of neuroplasticity with people, we talk about how we can rewire our brain and certain things that go on in our lives, and that concept similar kind of brought that out in my head to where you know, a lot of times we'll show a picture in our slide show and it's a picture of you know, like a brain that's nervous or looks stressed out, looks overwhelmed. And if you keep feeding that part of your life, you know, feeding you know, whenever you face adversity or you're going through something intense that you get stressed out, then you're feeding that side of your brain, and your brain gets better at getting stressed out. Whereas if we were faced with adversity or something's going on with your life, you use a breath, you slow your body down, you become what present. Then you're training your brain to be more like that. So instead of constantly triggering the sympathetic part of our autonomic nervous system, and you can be more that parasympathetic state. So similarity to the parable. I think it reminds me of that how whichever one you see is going to get stronger.

The same thing with me when the same thing with the Domina said sandscarves immediately popped into my head as well. But just to throw another kind of viewpoint out why I was talking about, I was like, I don't want to say the same thing, you know what I mean. I was thinking about also how sometimes when we've discussed the concept of neuroplasticity with people, we talk about how we can rewire our brain and certain things that go on in our lives, and that concept similar kind of brought that out in my head to where you know, a lot of times we'll show a picture in our slide show and it's a picture of you know, like a brain that's nervous or looks stressed out, looks overwhelmed. And if you keep feeding that part of your life, you know, feeding you know, whenever you face adversity or you're going through something intense that you get stressed out, then you're feeding that side of your brain, and your brain gets better at getting stressed out. Whereas if we were faced with adversity or something's going on with your life, you use a breath, you slow your body down, you become what present. Then you're training your brain to be more like that. So instead of constantly triggering the sympathetic part of our autonomic nervous system, and you can be more that parasympathetic state. So similarity to the parable. I think it reminds me of that how whichever one you see is going to get stronger.

I love this idea of some scars. It sounds like we pronounce that word slightly differently. I don't know if that's a difference between Hinduism and Buddhism, doesn't really matter, but that idea of when we do a behavior or a thought, one of the things that happens is it makes it easier or more likely to do that behavior or thought in the future. And that's just such a fundamental concept to realize, like, oh, we are creating in essence, the choices that are available to us almost narrow the more we do something. And you mentioned if we can catch something early, it unwinds pretty easy. When we're trying to unwind something that's got thirty years of habit energy behind it. It's not that it can't be unwound, because of course it can, but it is slightly more challenging. And so I always find that helpful to think of. You know, as I'm thinking about how I'm going to spend my time in what I'm going to do, is like for exercise, not only am I getting the benefit of the exercise today and what it does for my mental, emotional, physical help, but I'm also making it easier to do it the next time and the next time. And so I love that you guys brought that up. And then obviously Ali the core idea, right, it's choice, right, you hear the parable, you immediately get it. Our thoughts, our behaviors, our actions, our speech, they all matter. We have a choice in them. So what I'd like to talk about now is just get a little background on you guys and the work that you do. And I want to start by asking one of you to talk about a particular statistic and what you guys did is and you'll flesh this out more, but you basically began in Baltimore or twenty years however long, it's been trying to find the most troubled children and see if by using yoga and meditation you could improve their lives. Now you use different words with them and all that, but that was the core idea. And there was a statistic that jumped out to me that just really caught my attention, and it was one around suspension rates in a school where you guys were using. I think you might have called it your Mindful Moment program. I wonder if you could describe that program and then share some of those stats, because to me right away, I'm like, Holy mackerel, that's incredible.

I love this idea of some scars. It sounds like we pronounce that word slightly differently. I don't know if that's a difference between Hinduism and Buddhism, doesn't really matter, but that idea of when we do a behavior or a thought, one of the things that happens is it makes it easier or more likely to do that behavior or thought in the future. And that's just such a fundamental concept to realize, like, oh, we are creating in essence, the choices that are available to us almost narrow the more we do something. And you mentioned if we can catch something early, it unwinds pretty easy. When we're trying to unwind something that's got thirty years of habit energy behind it. It's not that it can't be unwound, because of course it can, but it is slightly more challenging. And so I always find that helpful to think of. You know, as I'm thinking about how I'm going to spend my time in what I'm going to do, is like for exercise, not only am I getting the benefit of the exercise today and what it does for my mental, emotional, physical help, but I'm also making it easier to do it the next time and the next time. And so I love that you guys brought that up. And then obviously Ali the core idea, right, it's choice, right, you hear the parable, you immediately get it. Our thoughts, our behaviors, our actions, our speech, they all matter. We have a choice in them. So what I'd like to talk about now is just get a little background on you guys and the work that you do. And I want to start by asking one of you to talk about a particular statistic and what you guys did is and you'll flesh this out more, but you basically began in Baltimore or twenty years however long, it's been trying to find the most troubled children and see if by using yoga and meditation you could improve their lives. Now you use different words with them and all that, but that was the core idea. And there was a statistic that jumped out to me that just really caught my attention, and it was one around suspension rates in a school where you guys were using. I think you might have called it your Mindful Moment program. I wonder if you could describe that program and then share some of those stats, because to me right away, I'm like, Holy mackerel, that's incredible.

I mean, I can describe the program, the Moment program. Like you said, we have like an alternative to suspension room when kids are in crisis, and it goes from elementary school all the way to high school where in each of those institutions, and you know, like I said, when kids are in crisis, when they're in high school, they can self refer, but when they're in middle school and elementary school, the teacher or administrator has to refer them to the room. We have staff from the Holistic Life Foundation staffing the room when they come in there. You know, we're not counseled, so we can't tell them what to do, you know, when they are in crisis, but we can actively listen and mirror what they're saying their problem. Is to empower them. You know, like a lot of kids are talked to all the time or talk at and they are not ever listened to, So that right there is empowering and healing to trauma. Then we teach the kids about stress, stresses and house streets plays out in their body, whether you know they clench their fists, clench their jaw, fold their arms, so they know what to look out for when they are about to act out. We also talk about, like I said, there's stresses, whether it's a teacher, classmate. And then you know, after we have them identify those things, we teach them a breath or meditation to help them you know, self regulate. You know, they're not looking for anybody else. The practices are within We teach in a way of reciprocal teaching model where you know, they know how to use the practices and what they're good for. And then you know, we ask them after the end of like the fifteen minute session with us next time that this situation happens, whether you're having that interaction with that student, that teacher, whether you're noticing how the stress plays out in your body, clenching your fist, clenching your jaw, shifting your weight, folding your arms. Do you think that you can, you know, use this practice to help yourself self regulate so you don't have to come back here. And they are like, yeah, we'll do it, We'll do it. And then you know, at the end, we have a tea machine in the room and you know, kids love tea, and you know, we give them some tea and then they go back to class. And you know, one of the most beautiful things about that practice is at the beginning of the year, the number of visits in that room is skyrocket like it's through the roof, you know, the amount of kids that come through there. But because we teach kids how to self regulate, how to identify their stressors, and how to identify how stress plays out in their body, and then the practices they can do to help bring themselves back to homeostasis. You know, the numbers dwindle next to nothing during the course of the year, and in the epicenter of where the Freddie Gray riots happened, you know, there hasn't been a suspension in maybe like eight years, and schools that we go into they eventually get rid of the in school suspension room because it's not needed anymore. So, you know, it's teachers and principles love it because it helps with a classroom environment, school culture, helps increase test scores, attendance, helps decrease suspensions and referral numbers. So we're expanding the program to six new cities this upcoming year through the Clinton Global Initiative because we do get such great stats.

I mean, I can describe the program, the Moment program. Like you said, we have like an alternative to suspension room when kids are in crisis, and it goes from elementary school all the way to high school where in each of those institutions, and you know, like I said, when kids are in crisis, when they're in high school, they can self refer, but when they're in middle school and elementary school, the teacher or administrator has to refer them to the room. We have staff from the Holistic Life Foundation staffing the room when they come in there. You know, we're not counseled, so we can't tell them what to do, you know, when they are in crisis, but we can actively listen and mirror what they're saying their problem. Is to empower them. You know, like a lot of kids are talked to all the time or talk at and they are not ever listened to, So that right there is empowering and healing to trauma. Then we teach the kids about stress, stresses and house streets plays out in their body, whether you know they clench their fists, clench their jaw, fold their arms, so they know what to look out for when they are about to act out. We also talk about, like I said, there's stresses, whether it's a teacher, classmate. And then you know, after we have them identify those things, we teach them a breath or meditation to help them you know, self regulate. You know, they're not looking for anybody else. The practices are within We teach in a way of reciprocal teaching model where you know, they know how to use the practices and what they're good for. And then you know, we ask them after the end of like the fifteen minute session with us next time that this situation happens, whether you're having that interaction with that student, that teacher, whether you're noticing how the stress plays out in your body, clenching your fist, clenching your jaw, shifting your weight, folding your arms. Do you think that you can, you know, use this practice to help yourself self regulate so you don't have to come back here. And they are like, yeah, we'll do it, We'll do it. And then you know, at the end, we have a tea machine in the room and you know, kids love tea, and you know, we give them some tea and then they go back to class. And you know, one of the most beautiful things about that practice is at the beginning of the year, the number of visits in that room is skyrocket like it's through the roof, you know, the amount of kids that come through there. But because we teach kids how to self regulate, how to identify their stressors, and how to identify how stress plays out in their body, and then the practices they can do to help bring themselves back to homeostasis. You know, the numbers dwindle next to nothing during the course of the year, and in the epicenter of where the Freddie Gray riots happened, you know, there hasn't been a suspension in maybe like eight years, and schools that we go into they eventually get rid of the in school suspension room because it's not needed anymore. So, you know, it's teachers and principles love it because it helps with a classroom environment, school culture, helps increase test scores, attendance, helps decrease suspensions and referral numbers. So we're expanding the program to six new cities this upcoming year through the Clinton Global Initiative because we do get such great stats.

And just a couple of things about that program real quick. I think one thing we make sure when we won't go to the schools, we're very intentional about the way we talk about the room, so it's not seen as a room for bad kids. It's more like a resource for everyone at the school because everybody's struggling for different reasons, and no one wants to go to the room if they see it for kids with behavior issues, like it's got to be a room for stress, a room for anxiety, or room for it, you know, if you just can't focus. So it's like a resource to all the kids in the school. And I think one of the main things we were trying to do was change the dynamic from punitive to empowering. Like kids usually being used to get punished for things, and that's just the way they live their lives. But we make it empowering because, like was talking about, they come to the room, they learn to self regulate, and then they start to do that self regulation in the classroom and they don't need to come to the room, so like those things that might have triggered them, and then in September they're like, I need to go to the mindful Moment room. In April it might be oh wait, look I feel myself getting triggered. Oh they taught me this breathing exercise. I can recenter myself, and then they resent themselves in the classroom. So you know, it's a huge part of it. And it's funny that school that I was talking about with the zero suspensions forever for as long as we had the program there, there were no suspensions. And I remember going to get data from the principal and vice principle for a grant that our development director was putting together, and I was like, yeah, I just need suspension data and this and that, and they were like, Ali, we don't have any suspensions here, Like, you know why that is right? I don't know y'all fudge the numbers, Like I don't. I don't understand how y'all don't have zero suspend. How y'all have zero spend. She's like, no, we don't fudge the numbers. Like we're about to suspend a kid, we send them to you all, like we send them to the Mindful Moment room. They re center themselves and they're ready to go back to class. And if the kids that are like repeat offenders, of the kids who kind of like constantly showing up in the room, we had an after school program at that school as well, called Holistic Me, and the kids that just needed a little more support, she would pull them out of whatever program they were in and put them in our after school program and then it would just help them. And there were literally no suspensions there in the entire time and running that program.

And just a couple of things about that program real quick. I think one thing we make sure when we won't go to the schools, we're very intentional about the way we talk about the room, so it's not seen as a room for bad kids. It's more like a resource for everyone at the school because everybody's struggling for different reasons, and no one wants to go to the room if they see it for kids with behavior issues, like it's got to be a room for stress, a room for anxiety, or room for it, you know, if you just can't focus. So it's like a resource to all the kids in the school. And I think one of the main things we were trying to do was change the dynamic from punitive to empowering. Like kids usually being used to get punished for things, and that's just the way they live their lives. But we make it empowering because, like was talking about, they come to the room, they learn to self regulate, and then they start to do that self regulation in the classroom and they don't need to come to the room, so like those things that might have triggered them, and then in September they're like, I need to go to the mindful Moment room. In April it might be oh wait, look I feel myself getting triggered. Oh they taught me this breathing exercise. I can recenter myself, and then they resent themselves in the classroom. So you know, it's a huge part of it. And it's funny that school that I was talking about with the zero suspensions forever for as long as we had the program there, there were no suspensions. And I remember going to get data from the principal and vice principle for a grant that our development director was putting together, and I was like, yeah, I just need suspension data and this and that, and they were like, Ali, we don't have any suspensions here, Like, you know why that is right? I don't know y'all fudge the numbers, Like I don't. I don't understand how y'all don't have zero suspend. How y'all have zero spend. She's like, no, we don't fudge the numbers. Like we're about to suspend a kid, we send them to you all, like we send them to the Mindful Moment room. They re center themselves and they're ready to go back to class. And if the kids that are like repeat offenders, of the kids who kind of like constantly showing up in the room, we had an after school program at that school as well, called Holistic Me, and the kids that just needed a little more support, she would pull them out of whatever program they were in and put them in our after school program and then it would just help them. And there were literally no suspensions there in the entire time and running that program.

You know, it's great what we do for the students, but you know, we also have an aspect of the program where we help support teachers and administrators during their planning periods. We'll send our staff to their rooms to work with the teachers and teach them practices to help them, you know, get rid of secondary trauma and you know, be more present for their students. And you know that helps prevent and burnout and gives them a new air of energy, you know, about their craft and you know a lot of people lose that through you know, accumulating that secondary trauma. And that's one thing that we've noticed that you know, it's been like teachers at schools where they are ready to retire, and when we bring the practice to the school, they get a new energy about them and you know, they have a new light because they're not only is there a classroom environment improving and the kids are born receptive, but you know they aren't accumulating that secondary trauma. They learn the practices to be able to get rid of that and you know, once again, just be present. And then also with the principle, we always take time to work with the principal as well to have a personal practice because they're overwhelmed. Teachers are overwhelmed because you know that to wear so many hats, but the principals wear even more hats than the teachers. And Richie Davidson did a study on, you know, the effectiveness of having a personal practice and being around folks and influencing them through your energy. And that's one thing that we've noticed in the schools that we're at. The secretaries in the schools thank us for having the practice with the principal because of the principals stressed out. The teachers are stressed out, the secretary is are stressed out. But when they do have a personal practice, the positive, calm present vibe reverberates out into the school in every single facet.

You know, it's great what we do for the students, but you know, we also have an aspect of the program where we help support teachers and administrators during their planning periods. We'll send our staff to their rooms to work with the teachers and teach them practices to help them, you know, get rid of secondary trauma and you know, be more present for their students. And you know that helps prevent and burnout and gives them a new air of energy, you know, about their craft and you know a lot of people lose that through you know, accumulating that secondary trauma. And that's one thing that we've noticed that you know, it's been like teachers at schools where they are ready to retire, and when we bring the practice to the school, they get a new energy about them and you know, they have a new light because they're not only is there a classroom environment improving and the kids are born receptive, but you know they aren't accumulating that secondary trauma. They learn the practices to be able to get rid of that and you know, once again, just be present. And then also with the principle, we always take time to work with the principal as well to have a personal practice because they're overwhelmed. Teachers are overwhelmed because you know that to wear so many hats, but the principals wear even more hats than the teachers. And Richie Davidson did a study on, you know, the effectiveness of having a personal practice and being around folks and influencing them through your energy. And that's one thing that we've noticed in the schools that we're at. The secretaries in the schools thank us for having the practice with the principal because of the principals stressed out. The teachers are stressed out, the secretary is are stressed out. But when they do have a personal practice, the positive, calm present vibe reverberates out into the school in every single facet.

So you've given some descriptions of a couple different programs. Why don't you tell me just broadly, you know, what the Holistic Life what all you do, and maybe tell me a little bit about the origin of it.

So you've given some descriptions of a couple different programs. Why don't you tell me just broadly, you know, what the Holistic Life what all you do, and maybe tell me a little bit about the origin of it.

I'll start with the origin and somebody can talk about what we do if y'all want to do it that way.

I'll start with the origin and somebody can talk about what we do if y'all want to do it that way.

So sounds good.

So sounds good.

The origin of the Holistic Life Foundation was I'd say our godfather, who was our teacher, our dad and our mom just in a lot of different ways they got into the practice of yoga. Our godfather got into it in like the early sixties. Him and my dad were like black panthers. They were into like making change, and then they saw that like certain types of change weren't sustainable, like revolution wasn't really a sustainable thing. They got violent, they got bloody, evolution took too long. So they would always talk about an involution, changing your inner life to change the world around you. And he was walking past the books or saw this guy with a big goofy grin and a big nose and a mustache, and was like, who is this guy? And it was Mayor Baba. So he grabbed the Mayor Baba book and read it and went back the next day and bought every single yoga book from this bookstore. And from that moment on, the yoga was the primary motivation of his entire existence, you know what I mean, learning it, absorbing it, teaching it, and just helping people with the practice and empowering people with the practice. He got our dad into it. Well, my dad had a prostate issue and my mom you know, she was had her own spiritual practice mostly around prayer, but she got into like the arivated cooking, like that was her thing. And when me and not more born, you know, our dad was like, well, if I'm meditating, you guys are meditating. So he got us into transcendental meditation early. It's not something I remember ever not being around like meditation as a kid. It was just like that was a part of our lives, getting up before school meditating and then going and watch on this little teeny black and white TV in the kitchen, watching the school be doing Widdy Woodpecker and then going off to school every morning, like that was our life. They put us in a self realization fellow church, the Divine Life Church of Absolute Moanism was what it called when we started going there, and then it became the Divine Life Church of Absolute Oneness, so based on creat yoga, really dope place to kind of see other people meditating and people into the practice. Because where we were in West Baltimore, like no one was into we had to hide our meditation practice. Mat Malus just say we were like closet meditators, you know what I mean, Like we didn't really want to share that with people because it was just weird back then, you know what I mean. Now coolest kids on the block being vegan and meditating and then the yoga, but back then it was just in the early eighties, like nobody was into that. So it was just like something that we hid from people. And then, you know, fast forward, we got out of our practice when our parents separated. We got out of the vegan lifestyle when our parents separated and got divorced, and then we got back into it as we were finishing up college and you know, Uncle Will was excited. We always tease him and say he was like Yoda sit in the Dagoba swamp waiting for Luke to show up. And we showed up and we were like, we want to learn this stuff, and he taught us and it just became a part of our lives. So I think we went deep into the practice. And at the same time, our dad, when we were finishing up school, told us don't go get jobs. He was like, don't go get a job. You guys need to start a business. You guys need to work for yourselves, and you'll be a lot happier, you won't have to deal with racism. In the corporate arena, you'll be able to make decisions, you'll be able to hire people that might not get hired, and you'll have a lot more flexibility and you'll be a lot happier. And that was when we started the Holistic Life Foundation. So it was like the combination of the yoga from Uncle Will, the business and entrepreneurship from our dad was like the perfect storm for us to start the Holistic Life Foundation. And our mom supported us. She was the one that had all the school connections and made sure we didn't starve when we were early starting off the Holistic Life Foundation too. She was an integral part of it as well.

The origin of the Holistic Life Foundation was I'd say our godfather, who was our teacher, our dad and our mom just in a lot of different ways they got into the practice of yoga. Our godfather got into it in like the early sixties. Him and my dad were like black panthers. They were into like making change, and then they saw that like certain types of change weren't sustainable, like revolution wasn't really a sustainable thing. They got violent, they got bloody, evolution took too long. So they would always talk about an involution, changing your inner life to change the world around you. And he was walking past the books or saw this guy with a big goofy grin and a big nose and a mustache, and was like, who is this guy? And it was Mayor Baba. So he grabbed the Mayor Baba book and read it and went back the next day and bought every single yoga book from this bookstore. And from that moment on, the yoga was the primary motivation of his entire existence, you know what I mean, learning it, absorbing it, teaching it, and just helping people with the practice and empowering people with the practice. He got our dad into it. Well, my dad had a prostate issue and my mom you know, she was had her own spiritual practice mostly around prayer, but she got into like the arivated cooking, like that was her thing. And when me and not more born, you know, our dad was like, well, if I'm meditating, you guys are meditating. So he got us into transcendental meditation early. It's not something I remember ever not being around like meditation as a kid. It was just like that was a part of our lives, getting up before school meditating and then going and watch on this little teeny black and white TV in the kitchen, watching the school be doing Widdy Woodpecker and then going off to school every morning, like that was our life. They put us in a self realization fellow church, the Divine Life Church of Absolute Moanism was what it called when we started going there, and then it became the Divine Life Church of Absolute Oneness, so based on creat yoga, really dope place to kind of see other people meditating and people into the practice. Because where we were in West Baltimore, like no one was into we had to hide our meditation practice. Mat Malus just say we were like closet meditators, you know what I mean, Like we didn't really want to share that with people because it was just weird back then, you know what I mean. Now coolest kids on the block being vegan and meditating and then the yoga, but back then it was just in the early eighties, like nobody was into that. So it was just like something that we hid from people. And then, you know, fast forward, we got out of our practice when our parents separated. We got out of the vegan lifestyle when our parents separated and got divorced, and then we got back into it as we were finishing up college and you know, Uncle Will was excited. We always tease him and say he was like Yoda sit in the Dagoba swamp waiting for Luke to show up. And we showed up and we were like, we want to learn this stuff, and he taught us and it just became a part of our lives. So I think we went deep into the practice. And at the same time, our dad, when we were finishing up school, told us don't go get jobs. He was like, don't go get a job. You guys need to start a business. You guys need to work for yourselves, and you'll be a lot happier, you won't have to deal with racism. In the corporate arena, you'll be able to make decisions, you'll be able to hire people that might not get hired, and you'll have a lot more flexibility and you'll be a lot happier. And that was when we started the Holistic Life Foundation. So it was like the combination of the yoga from Uncle Will, the business and entrepreneurship from our dad was like the perfect storm for us to start the Holistic Life Foundation. And our mom supported us. She was the one that had all the school connections and made sure we didn't starve when we were early starting off the Holistic Life Foundation too. She was an integral part of it as well.

Maybe we could pause here for a second before we go into what all you do, and I'd love to have one of you describe what you mean when you say yoga, because as we know, yoga has for many, many many people, it means one thing. It means you do a series of poses on a matware or by yourself. But it's all a physical thing. And maybe there is some element of being present or breathing that's part of it, but it's primarily the physical thing. And you guys are talking about a yoga that is far more to use your title of your business holistic than that, right, So, could someone just share in a sentence or two kind of what you mean when you guys use the word yoga, and then I'd love to hear about the programs that you guys do.

Maybe we could pause here for a second before we go into what all you do, and I'd love to have one of you describe what you mean when you say yoga, because as we know, yoga has for many, many many people, it means one thing. It means you do a series of poses on a matware or by yourself. But it's all a physical thing. And maybe there is some element of being present or breathing that's part of it, but it's primarily the physical thing. And you guys are talking about a yoga that is far more to use your title of your business holistic than that, right, So, could someone just share in a sentence or two kind of what you mean when you guys use the word yoga, and then I'd love to hear about the programs that you guys do.

I mean, I can say what yoga is since it only take a second that and it can dive deeper on you know, what we do to us, yoga is basically like how Patent Jali described it as, like the eight limbs. You know, things that you should do, things that you shouldn't do, the yamas and the yamas, then the postures, then also the breeding practices like you were saying, and then you know meditation. Meditation is really important that a lot of people just skip. I mean that's like, you know, top four levels of Patent Joali's eight Limbs of Yoga. And you know, a lot of people think that it's something that you do when you roll out of matt but you know, our teacher used to always say, it's not something that you do with something that you are. So it's figuring out how to take the practice off the bat and actually into your life excellent.

I mean, I can say what yoga is since it only take a second that and it can dive deeper on you know, what we do to us, yoga is basically like how Patent Jali described it as, like the eight limbs. You know, things that you should do, things that you shouldn't do, the yamas and the yamas, then the postures, then also the breeding practices like you were saying, and then you know meditation. Meditation is really important that a lot of people just skip. I mean that's like, you know, top four levels of Patent Joali's eight Limbs of Yoga. And you know, a lot of people think that it's something that you do when you roll out of matt but you know, our teacher used to always say, it's not something that you do with something that you are. So it's figuring out how to take the practice off the bat and actually into your life excellent.

And I think just real quick, I think union is what yoga means. So it's like the science of uniting your consciousness with that universal consciousness. Because when we're in our ego, we live that separate kind of limiting lifestyle, you know what I mean, where we like we put the limits on ourselves. But when you can unite your consciousness with that universal consciousness, then you get into that omnisition omnipotenomena present universal nature of yourself that you actually are.

And I think just real quick, I think union is what yoga means. So it's like the science of uniting your consciousness with that universal consciousness. Because when we're in our ego, we live that separate kind of limiting lifestyle, you know what I mean, where we like we put the limits on ourselves. But when you can unite your consciousness with that universal consciousness, then you get into that omnisition omnipotenomena present universal nature of yourself that you actually are.

So I'll jump in now about some of self h Love does love don't you like? Yeah, Ali hit it on the head basically about you know, the foundation coming from his mom's and his dad and Uncle Will and you know, imagine three guys in college that just want to help. We see a lot of suffering goaling in the world, and we don't see a lot of people doing anything about it. You know, they get back in contact with Uncle Will and I first meet him. I think that's when we really got into our practice and we had an opportunity to provide some of the techniques that we were doing for ourselves with a group of kings. So, you know, fast forward twenty years later. Now the main thing we try to do is provide evidence base, trial inform, curricula practices, services to individuals all over the nation, all of the world, all age groups. We get eyelighted for a lot of the stuff we do with youth, but we do you know, drug rehab centers, metal health facilities, homeless shelters, Eaverly Holmes, corporations, basically anywhere we can go and remind people some of these practices and techniques like at was talking about, beyond just the movement, we do do movement as well and actually try to make people understand that misconception of yoga sometimes where all they think the yoga is is the bending and stretching and like putting yourself on a pretzel. So we do do some form of movement, some form of breath work, and then we get into the meditation practices and the goal is to provide people with tools for their toolbox, because some people certain techniques will resonate in war with them than others.

So I'll jump in now about some of self h Love does love don't you like? Yeah, Ali hit it on the head basically about you know, the foundation coming from his mom's and his dad and Uncle Will and you know, imagine three guys in college that just want to help. We see a lot of suffering goaling in the world, and we don't see a lot of people doing anything about it. You know, they get back in contact with Uncle Will and I first meet him. I think that's when we really got into our practice and we had an opportunity to provide some of the techniques that we were doing for ourselves with a group of kings. So, you know, fast forward twenty years later. Now the main thing we try to do is provide evidence base, trial inform, curricula practices, services to individuals all over the nation, all of the world, all age groups. We get eyelighted for a lot of the stuff we do with youth, but we do you know, drug rehab centers, metal health facilities, homeless shelters, Eaverly Holmes, corporations, basically anywhere we can go and remind people some of these practices and techniques like at was talking about, beyond just the movement, we do do movement as well and actually try to make people understand that misconception of yoga sometimes where all they think the yoga is is the bending and stretching and like putting yourself on a pretzel. So we do do some form of movement, some form of breath work, and then we get into the meditation practices and the goal is to provide people with tools for their toolbox, because some people certain techniques will resonate in war with them than others.

You know.

You know.

I remember there's a talk once where they were like, these guys have saved all these people's lives, and we always correct them like whoa, whoa, Like we haven't saved anybody's lives. All we do is we remind people that these techniques so they can help themselves, you know, So we don't save anyone's lives. We're just like, hey, don't forget when you're faced with something, you can use this breath or maybe you can use this meditation. They get yourself back to the center to be present. And then as they start doing that more, I think that's when they really start getting that self realization right, separate from the ego and really remembering who they really are, their real self, that capital s self that we're talking about. I think once sad starts happen, answering their lives just to completely transform and they see the world through different eyes, hear the world through different ears, and everything is united. Like all said, that union right where all those divisions that are brought upon us, you know, through the material world and the illusions of this material world, and even being taught you know, in the systems that we're at it, everything is always defined to make it something separate, when really the main point of yoga is union. And I think that, you know, with the holistic life foundation, that ends up coming off in some way, shape or form. We're very particular in the way that we speak in schools where we you know, we don't go to two deeps. We're more surface level, more awareness practices when we're in schools. But when it comes to our actual practices Ali Appman and Eyes, I think that we're Yogis and we're into the connection with that capital as the real universe it self. Ultimately, love is the most powerful force and it's the uniting force, and that's what we're hoping to be able to do with our mission.

I remember there's a talk once where they were like, these guys have saved all these people's lives, and we always correct them like whoa, whoa, Like we haven't saved anybody's lives. All we do is we remind people that these techniques so they can help themselves, you know, So we don't save anyone's lives. We're just like, hey, don't forget when you're faced with something, you can use this breath or maybe you can use this meditation. They get yourself back to the center to be present. And then as they start doing that more, I think that's when they really start getting that self realization right, separate from the ego and really remembering who they really are, their real self, that capital s self that we're talking about. I think once sad starts happen, answering their lives just to completely transform and they see the world through different eyes, hear the world through different ears, and everything is united. Like all said, that union right where all those divisions that are brought upon us, you know, through the material world and the illusions of this material world, and even being taught you know, in the systems that we're at it, everything is always defined to make it something separate, when really the main point of yoga is union. And I think that, you know, with the holistic life foundation, that ends up coming off in some way, shape or form. We're very particular in the way that we speak in schools where we you know, we don't go to two deeps. We're more surface level, more awareness practices when we're in schools. But when it comes to our actual practices Ali Appman and Eyes, I think that we're Yogis and we're into the connection with that capital as the real universe it self. Ultimately, love is the most powerful force and it's the uniting force, and that's what we're hoping to be able to do with our mission.

Can I just say something real quick about h and just like on Boots on the ground, what HLF does is like we do a lot of Tier one, Tier two, and Tier three interventions in K through twelve schools where we're helping kids get the practices early and then move on through their lives. Our after school program is called Holistic Me where we just gives kids a little more support enrichment programs. Holistic Roots is our mentoring program for kids who graduate out of our after school program, where it's more around still the enrichment activities, but more around life skills, whether it's job writings, college readiness, whatever it is. And then kids go into our workforce development program so we can train them to come and work for us. I think throughout the entire lifespan of Holistic Life Foundation, we probably had somewhere between forty and fifty of our former students working for the Holistic Life Foundation. We do work in the community as well, so that's detention centers, mental crisis facilities, senior centers, head starts, homeless shelters, drug treatment centers, everywhere along those lines. The only thing we do is we do a lot of trainings. Mindfless and yoga have become very, very popular, but I think people want to just go to a weekend retreat or read a curriculum and be able to just go and start throwing it out there. I think one thing that the Holistic Life Foundation does is we help to develop authentic teachers, and that's where the real change is going to come from people being the practice and not just doing the practice being able to embody it. So a lot of what we do is around training people to facilitate the programs in a way that's going to help people heal from their trauma, deal with the mental health outcomes that are kind of plaguing people these days, and just live a more peaceful, love centered and connected life.

Can I just say something real quick about h and just like on Boots on the ground, what HLF does is like we do a lot of Tier one, Tier two, and Tier three interventions in K through twelve schools where we're helping kids get the practices early and then move on through their lives. Our after school program is called Holistic Me where we just gives kids a little more support enrichment programs. Holistic Roots is our mentoring program for kids who graduate out of our after school program, where it's more around still the enrichment activities, but more around life skills, whether it's job writings, college readiness, whatever it is. And then kids go into our workforce development program so we can train them to come and work for us. I think throughout the entire lifespan of Holistic Life Foundation, we probably had somewhere between forty and fifty of our former students working for the Holistic Life Foundation. We do work in the community as well, so that's detention centers, mental crisis facilities, senior centers, head starts, homeless shelters, drug treatment centers, everywhere along those lines. The only thing we do is we do a lot of trainings. Mindfless and yoga have become very, very popular, but I think people want to just go to a weekend retreat or read a curriculum and be able to just go and start throwing it out there. I think one thing that the Holistic Life Foundation does is we help to develop authentic teachers, and that's where the real change is going to come from people being the practice and not just doing the practice being able to embody it. So a lot of what we do is around training people to facilitate the programs in a way that's going to help people heal from their trauma, deal with the mental health outcomes that are kind of plaguing people these days, and just live a more peaceful, love centered and connected life.

As you're talking. I'm sort of struck by a couple of ideas. I mean, the first is, you guys described your own practice where you're after union with that capital s self, right, And all of our mystical traditions talk about this in different ways, right. You know, in Buddhism we'd actually say you're kind of getting in touch with Buddha nature, you're losing your egoic self, right, lots of different words for it.

As you're talking. I'm sort of struck by a couple of ideas. I mean, the first is, you guys described your own practice where you're after union with that capital s self, right, And all of our mystical traditions talk about this in different ways, right. You know, in Buddhism we'd actually say you're kind of getting in touch with Buddha nature, you're losing your egoic self, right, lots of different words for it.

Right.

Right.

And that's a path of high degree of rigor and intensity.

And that's a path of high degree of rigor and intensity.

Right.

Right.

There are some people who have those experiences very quickly, very easily, but for most of us, it's going to take a lot of practice.

There are some people who have those experiences very quickly, very easily, but for most of us, it's going to take a lot of practice.

Right.

Right.

So we've got that on one hand, right, But on the other extreme, what you are doing is introducing some of these practices and tools for people who have no interest in that path, but are simply looking for a way to not get suspended, to get better grades, to not get in fights after school, to choose a path besides a gang. I mean, there's lots of different things, and I'm struck by how these similar practices can be useful regardless of what degree you want to go into them. The reason I'm hitting this point is I think it's important for anybody who's listening. Also, when we think about our spiritual practice, we often are given this idea that we have to be these intense devoted people to our spiritual practice, and for some people that I do think is the right path. But there's also a way of saying, you know what, I've just got a few more tools in my toolkit that helped me to be a little bit better person. And I don't ever have to take it further than that if I don't want to, you know. And so I think your work shines a light on those two. You know, those are both extremes, and then there's a million places in between those two.

So we've got that on one hand, right, But on the other extreme, what you are doing is introducing some of these practices and tools for people who have no interest in that path, but are simply looking for a way to not get suspended, to get better grades, to not get in fights after school, to choose a path besides a gang. I mean, there's lots of different things, and I'm struck by how these similar practices can be useful regardless of what degree you want to go into them. The reason I'm hitting this point is I think it's important for anybody who's listening. Also, when we think about our spiritual practice, we often are given this idea that we have to be these intense devoted people to our spiritual practice, and for some people that I do think is the right path. But there's also a way of saying, you know what, I've just got a few more tools in my toolkit that helped me to be a little bit better person. And I don't ever have to take it further than that if I don't want to, you know. And so I think your work shines a light on those two. You know, those are both extremes, and then there's a million places in between those two.

Yeah. So I think a lot of the things you said resonated, and I could hear Uncle Will talking in our head, like, you know, the path is going to be what you make it. Your inner journey is going to be what you make it. I mean, he would always talk about making your journey a fun journey, you know what I mean, like having fun with your spiritual practice, because you can go into it thinking it's going to be hard, and like you know, like dreading going into your practice, but like I enjoyed my practice. I mean I have fun with it. He would always talk about whatever you call that light inside of you, and whether it's God, whether it's Brah Mom, whether it's whatever you call that light inside of a universal light, whatever you call it, that you're like, let your light shine, whatever you call that light. He would always say, talk to that light like you talk to me like you talk to your best friend. You know what I mean. Don't go in there like very meek or shy or begging for anything, because like that abundance and that union is your birthright. It is while we're put here. So you don't have to go in there begging for anything, and like really have fun with it and go in there with a playful attitude, not like you know, again that very meek where you're like, please give me that, you know what I mean, Like you gotta go in there. Even the guy we talk about a Cherry Peter or swamiy Sean caranand in our book, and he would always say, like I can hear his voice. He would always say that a true yogi is very demanding, Like you're going in there and you're demanding the things because these are the things that are your birthright. You're not begging or asking for anything. So I think that's it. And I think one of the other things that Uncle Will helped us with was he would always talk about that sharp edge short versus the broad path, and he's like, if you guys were true yogi's, you would walk that sharp edged sword where it's like, you know, if you're walking on a sword, it's going to hurt the entire time, and there's not much room for error and you can fall off at any point. But if you walk that broad path, you know, you could be over here, you could be over there, you could be somewhere in the middle. As long as you're walking towards that light, then you're actually going in the right direction. I remember there was a point where we would hang out with Uncle Will. We'd drink beer. We would drink it's mostly Hoinikens and Crown Royal. We would drink with Uncle Will. And there was a long period of time where I was like, I felt like if I was going to be yoga, I had to stop drinking. So like I stopped for a while and I remember like him's looking at me. We were sitting over there talking. He cracks up in a Heineken slides in front of me. It's like, ah, you're done with that? And I was like, what do you mean. He was like, well, like the people that you're trying, Like how many spiritual conversations if you had out of the bar, And I was like a ton of them. He was like, yeah, So why does that have to be something that you stop? Like you know what I mean. It's a way you connect with people. It's a way you draw people in. So like, that doesn't have to be something that you give up. Like from time to time you may decide you want to step away from it, and it might fall off at some point, it might not. But like if that's something that you enjoy doing and you're moving in the direction of the light while you're doing it, he was like And he would always talk about it. He was like, yeah, you know, we're over here, we're having all these drinks, but like we're talking about the light the entire time. Like most of our practice with Uncle Will throughout probably the last like ten to fifteen years we practiced with him, had nothing to do with the yoga mat. It was like us and Heineke and Crownroys sitting around like the island in his kitchen and us learning from him that way, and it was like more about practices that we can incorporate into our lives throughout the twenty Like if we did two hours on our mat, it's how we spend those other twenty two hours in our day. Like, that's what he was teaching us during that time, and that was more impactful And that's a bigger part of our practice than our mat based practice probably is right now. But I think that having the fun and living your life the way that he was, Like, if you guys were meant to be some other way, you probably would have been born in a monastery or like in the woods somewhere. He's like, you guys are born in West Baltimore. So that's where you got to operate from and you got to spread the light from there.

Yeah. So I think a lot of the things you said resonated, and I could hear Uncle Will talking in our head, like, you know, the path is going to be what you make it. Your inner journey is going to be what you make it. I mean, he would always talk about making your journey a fun journey, you know what I mean, like having fun with your spiritual practice, because you can go into it thinking it's going to be hard, and like you know, like dreading going into your practice, but like I enjoyed my practice. I mean I have fun with it. He would always talk about whatever you call that light inside of you, and whether it's God, whether it's Brah Mom, whether it's whatever you call that light inside of a universal light, whatever you call it, that you're like, let your light shine, whatever you call that light. He would always say, talk to that light like you talk to me like you talk to your best friend. You know what I mean. Don't go in there like very meek or shy or begging for anything, because like that abundance and that union is your birthright. It is while we're put here. So you don't have to go in there begging for anything, and like really have fun with it and go in there with a playful attitude, not like you know, again that very meek where you're like, please give me that, you know what I mean, Like you gotta go in there. Even the guy we talk about a Cherry Peter or swamiy Sean caranand in our book, and he would always say, like I can hear his voice. He would always say that a true yogi is very demanding, Like you're going in there and you're demanding the things because these are the things that are your birthright. You're not begging or asking for anything. So I think that's it. And I think one of the other things that Uncle Will helped us with was he would always talk about that sharp edge short versus the broad path, and he's like, if you guys were true yogi's, you would walk that sharp edged sword where it's like, you know, if you're walking on a sword, it's going to hurt the entire time, and there's not much room for error and you can fall off at any point. But if you walk that broad path, you know, you could be over here, you could be over there, you could be somewhere in the middle. As long as you're walking towards that light, then you're actually going in the right direction. I remember there was a point where we would hang out with Uncle Will. We'd drink beer. We would drink it's mostly Hoinikens and Crown Royal. We would drink with Uncle Will. And there was a long period of time where I was like, I felt like if I was going to be yoga, I had to stop drinking. So like I stopped for a while and I remember like him's looking at me. We were sitting over there talking. He cracks up in a Heineken slides in front of me. It's like, ah, you're done with that? And I was like, what do you mean. He was like, well, like the people that you're trying, Like how many spiritual conversations if you had out of the bar, And I was like a ton of them. He was like, yeah, So why does that have to be something that you stop? Like you know what I mean. It's a way you connect with people. It's a way you draw people in. So like, that doesn't have to be something that you give up. Like from time to time you may decide you want to step away from it, and it might fall off at some point, it might not. But like if that's something that you enjoy doing and you're moving in the direction of the light while you're doing it, he was like And he would always talk about it. He was like, yeah, you know, we're over here, we're having all these drinks, but like we're talking about the light the entire time. Like most of our practice with Uncle Will throughout probably the last like ten to fifteen years we practiced with him, had nothing to do with the yoga mat. It was like us and Heineke and Crownroys sitting around like the island in his kitchen and us learning from him that way, and it was like more about practices that we can incorporate into our lives throughout the twenty Like if we did two hours on our mat, it's how we spend those other twenty two hours in our day. Like, that's what he was teaching us during that time, and that was more impactful And that's a bigger part of our practice than our mat based practice probably is right now. But I think that having the fun and living your life the way that he was, Like, if you guys were meant to be some other way, you probably would have been born in a monastery or like in the woods somewhere. He's like, you guys are born in West Baltimore. So that's where you got to operate from and you got to spread the light from there.

All the alcoholics and addicts in the audience are suddenly like I am in the Holistic Life Foundation. Where do I sign them through as a recovering alcoholic and addict? Myself? We have a bunch of people in that camp. But I think this point of you know, how do you make your practice fun is a really important idea. You know, how do we keep it alive?

All the alcoholics and addicts in the audience are suddenly like I am in the Holistic Life Foundation. Where do I sign them through as a recovering alcoholic and addict? Myself? We have a bunch of people in that camp. But I think this point of you know, how do you make your practice fun is a really important idea. You know, how do we keep it alive?

You know.

You know.

And one of the challenges I've faced as I've gone down my spiritual path is that all of a sudden a practice will get really really dry for me because certain spiritual teachers will say to me, Okay, now you're at it right, this is it? Like you stay in it now, you know? And then other people and my own mind will say, you know, maybe you just need something different, maybe you need to spice this up a little bit. And I've found that an ongoing challenge as I've navigated my own spiritual paths for thirty years is kind of what to do when it gets dry?

And one of the challenges I've faced as I've gone down my spiritual path is that all of a sudden a practice will get really really dry for me because certain spiritual teachers will say to me, Okay, now you're at it right, this is it? Like you stay in it now, you know? And then other people and my own mind will say, you know, maybe you just need something different, maybe you need to spice this up a little bit. And I've found that an ongoing challenge as I've navigated my own spiritual paths for thirty years is kind of what to do when it gets dry?

Like that?

Like that?

Do I keep going deeper? Do I pivot? And I don't think there's any answer to that. I couldn't answer that question for anybody else, like what do you do? But I do in my life see it as part of figuring out that spiritual path and also kind of what you said, how broad do I want the path to be for myself? Or how narrow do I want it to be? Right? How focused and dedicated am I? And in the last thirty years or so, it varies. Right, there's times where my path is very broad and there are times where it narrows and it narrows and it narrows, and I'm very focused. And to me, that's kind of what this journey we talk about is kind of about. There's no set answer, right, we have to figure it out ourselves with the help of other people, with the discernment of community around us.

Do I keep going deeper? Do I pivot? And I don't think there's any answer to that. I couldn't answer that question for anybody else, like what do you do? But I do in my life see it as part of figuring out that spiritual path and also kind of what you said, how broad do I want the path to be for myself? Or how narrow do I want it to be? Right? How focused and dedicated am I? And in the last thirty years or so, it varies. Right, there's times where my path is very broad and there are times where it narrows and it narrows and it narrows, and I'm very focused. And to me, that's kind of what this journey we talk about is kind of about. There's no set answer, right, we have to figure it out ourselves with the help of other people, with the discernment of community around us.

When you just said that, it made me just like really appreciate our teachers so much because you know, he said, he's going to give us a toolbox of different practices because you know, something that may serve you today, it may not serve you tomorrow like you were just saying. And you know, we have certain physical practices that we do, like when we do hit the mat like the sunrise, you know, the Five Tibetans or the Fountain of Youth practices, you know, certain Koreas like soid Korea, stretch polls, stomach retraction, just our go toos. But then we have limitless meditations that you know, we dive into from time to time just in regards to what we need for that day. Or it might be different matras that Ali's son he calls the cheat calls, because there's a matra for any and everything that you want in your life, you know, it's tapping you into latent energy around you and in your body that bring about certain results, certain maudras. It's so many different things that you can practically apply into your life. If you don't have the time two hours, like Ali was saying, to roll out of mat if you only have twenty minutes, you may just want to do you know, the physical practice, the sunrise and the rights, and then you know, during the course of the day you may do your matras, or you may do certain breathing practices, or you know whatever. So you know, I think that that's one of the reasons why and the reason why we appreciate our teacher, and the reason why we teach how we teach is giving people a toolbox, because you never know if a practice will get boring, you'll have enough to be able to pull out your toolbox to invigorate your interest in the practice and keep you going.

When you just said that, it made me just like really appreciate our teachers so much because you know, he said, he's going to give us a toolbox of different practices because you know, something that may serve you today, it may not serve you tomorrow like you were just saying. And you know, we have certain physical practices that we do, like when we do hit the mat like the sunrise, you know, the Five Tibetans or the Fountain of Youth practices, you know, certain Koreas like soid Korea, stretch polls, stomach retraction, just our go toos. But then we have limitless meditations that you know, we dive into from time to time just in regards to what we need for that day. Or it might be different matras that Ali's son he calls the cheat calls, because there's a matra for any and everything that you want in your life, you know, it's tapping you into latent energy around you and in your body that bring about certain results, certain maudras. It's so many different things that you can practically apply into your life. If you don't have the time two hours, like Ali was saying, to roll out of mat if you only have twenty minutes, you may just want to do you know, the physical practice, the sunrise and the rights, and then you know, during the course of the day you may do your matras, or you may do certain breathing practices, or you know whatever. So you know, I think that that's one of the reasons why and the reason why we appreciate our teacher, and the reason why we teach how we teach is giving people a toolbox, because you never know if a practice will get boring, you'll have enough to be able to pull out your toolbox to invigorate your interest in the practice and keep you going.

One of the things I was struck by as I was reading your book is people often talk about the four types of yoga. Right you guys can expound upon it, but the way it's often been taught to me is that those different paths align to different people's personalities. Right like you just might be a person who you know, worshiping a devotion, you know, or you might be a person where you know, really acts of service. But what I found interested in your guys practice is you're not picking one of those paths, right, You're actually incorporating to some degree all four of them. I think, say a little bit about that, about what those four are and how you think about, you know, maybe staying on one versus blending.

One of the things I was struck by as I was reading your book is people often talk about the four types of yoga. Right you guys can expound upon it, but the way it's often been taught to me is that those different paths align to different people's personalities. Right like you just might be a person who you know, worshiping a devotion, you know, or you might be a person where you know, really acts of service. But what I found interested in your guys practice is you're not picking one of those paths, right, You're actually incorporating to some degree all four of them. I think, say a little bit about that, about what those four are and how you think about, you know, maybe staying on one versus blending.

All of them.

All of them.

So I'd say that with Uncle Will, it was kind of lumped into groups. There was like the physical practice, which was like the hatha, the Kundalini and the Korea like that was always a big part of it. There was Demontra yoga which had its own part. There was Janana yoga that had its own part, and then there was like the karma yoga of course, and bachta yoga. I think those are the major ones that we did with Uncle Will. And then it was like those those weird energetic practices that he would pull out a left field. Every once in a while. He would always have this running joke where we would go over something and we would we would get to the end of it even be like, well, no, I got something else. For you, and you will not get out of this course until you learn. Then you throw something else at us, and we think we were finishing that up, and even like you will not get out of this course until you learn. So it was like always a different form. And his thing was he wanted us to be able to walk into a room and be able to teach anybody. And it was all about people are gonna need different things. Like we might walk into a school and there's a bunch of like rambunctious third graders that bouncing off the walls. They might need to do some austins to burn off some of the energy. That we do some breath work and then they can stop for centering themselves. We might be at a retreat center and people are looking for like a deep spiritual connection. That's a whole other set of practices. So I think he really wanted us to be able to relate to any and everyone. You know, Like we've been around a lot of like really good yoga teachers, but I feel like I can speak for Attman and Andy on this one. I've never been around anyone that was deeply connected to the practices. He was like he would always say that he was a conduit of the practice, because like there'd be times we'd be at his place and like it would be flowing through him. He wouldn't be talking, it would just be like flowing through him. And then he would even have to stop being like, damn, did y'all hear that? Like where did that come from? Like where he'd be even shocked. Then it came out of him where it was just like you know, like he was just like totally there. And I think one of the most important things about him was he would always say, it's in the book a lot about being a scientist and experimenting. He would like, don't go out there and teach these practices until you've experimented on yourself and you've proved to yourself that they work. There might be practices that I'm working on now that you know, I have to prove to myself that they work before I go out and share them with anyone else. I think that's a good way that he kind of brought us through as teachers to make sure that we're not teaching from a place of theory. We're teaching from a place of experience and wisdom, where it's like coming from us and we know like the pitfalls of it. We know how to get over this obstacle in the practice. And you know, there might be something that we've experienced that we can share with someone else that to make their journey with the practice a little easier. So it is all about getting a little bit of this and a little bit of that, a little bit of this and a little bit of that, and being able to adjust with what the universe throws at you. Because, like you were saying, like some practices do get a little dry to you. There might be a time where you know, your practice gets in that zone, Like you're in that zone with your practice, the universe throws you a curveball and then like that practice doesn't work anymore. You got to adjust your practice to what the universe is putting in front of you right there. So, I think being teachers but also being practitioners, he wanted us to be well prepared for when he transitioned, that we had enough to kind of sustain ourselves and to help the people around us sustain themselves too.