When we shame ourselves, the centers of the brain that have to do with learning shut down, so we literally paralyze ourselves. We keep ourselves stuck in the very habits we want to change. Welcome to the one you feed Throughout time. Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Dr SHAWNA. Shapiro, a professor, author, and internationally recognized expert in mindfulness and compassion. Shauna has published over a hundred and fifty journal articles and three critically acclaimed books translated into sixteen languages. On this episode, Eric and Shauna discuss her book Good Morning, I Love You Mindfulness and Self Compassion Practices to rewire your brain for calm, clarity and joy. Hi Seanna, welcome to the show. Thank you delighted to be here. I'm excited to have you on. We are going to discuss your book Good Morning, I Love You Mindfulness and self Compassion Practices to rewire your brain for calm, clarity and joy. But before we get into the book, let's start, like we always do, with a parable. There's a grandmother who's talking with her grandson and she says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops. He thinks about it for a second, and he looks up at his grandmother and he says, grandmother, which one wins? And the grandmother says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that paragul means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Well. First of all, I love that My dad told me that parable when I was a little girl, and what it has always meant to me, even before I became a scientist and really understood the science behind it, is that where we put our attention, where we put our energy, as what we grow. And if we are practicing negativity or fear or anger, that's what we're growing. And if we're practicing kindness and generosity, that's what we're growing. That's what we're feeding. As the grandmother said. And I think what we know now from neural plasticity is that whatever we are practicing grows stronger. And so what really matters in life is focusing on what you want to grow, what you want to feed. And I think the other thing I love about that parable is it reminds us that none of us are perfect. We all have good and bad inside of us, and that's normal, that's natural, And it really is about choice and having the freedom to choose what parts of ourselves we want to strengthen. Yeah, I love that part of the parable too, that I don't think people talk about that much, which is the normalization that the human condition is a struggle and that we have all this stuff going on inside of us. I love the way the parable sort of described is it sounds like it's a pretty close battle, you know, it sounds which we just you know, really reinforces that this just goes on. So I love that idea, And you know what you said, they're out. What we practice grows is one of the real key messages in your book, which is what we practice grow stronger. And also how we practice, which is something we're really going to get into here in a minute. But I thought I would start by asking you to tell us a little bit about what led you into your initial encounters with mindfulness. Well, I was introduced to mindfulness at one of the lowest points in my life. I was about seventeen, and I had just had spinal fusion surgery, so I had a metal rod put in my spine for scoliosis. Um. It was very unexpected, and so I went from this healthy, active teenager, kind of starved my volleyball team and my whole life senator on my physicality to lying in a hospital bed, unable to walk. And I remember during that time the physical pain was significant, but it was really my mind that tortured me most. It was the fear of the future. What I ever recover and the incredible sense of loss, and I just didn't have the tools to cope. And it was at that time that my father introduced me to mindfulness, and it was one of those moments where just I can't explain it, but it's like you just know, there's a deep knowing. And when I started reading this book, he gave me Wherever you go, there you are by John Cabots, in the first line said, whatever has happened to you, it's already happened. The real question is now what? And there was this sense of hope, like there was a path forward that I perhaps could be happy again. And that journey led me some years later to Thailand and Nepal to a monastery to actually study and practice meditation, and it was there that I experienced for the first time this sense of freedom from the pain of my body and a sense that there was the power of the mind to actually shift both our physical health and our mental well being. And that really led to the last twenty five years of my life. Yeah, you mentioned that sort of instant recognition. I was introduced to Zen Buddhism in in high school by a teacher, and I just remember there was this almost instant like draw, And I think the draw was similar to what you're describing, because it was basically saying, you know what, outside of you can be chaos and pain and suffering. And I was a serious young man as a as a high schooler, and and so I'm reading all these novels and I know that the world lots of bad things can happen, and all of a sudden this thing comes along and says, but even in the midst of that, there's a way to be okay. And I just immediately like that, that's what I want. And that's what was so extraordinary about the monastery was I remember as I was leaving, feeling the sense of well being, the sense of happiness, and reflecting on the fact that nothing much had changed in my life. Right. I hadn't me money, it didn't all of a sudden have a boyfriend. My spine still had its metal rod and scars on my body. But there was this sense of happiness, and I realized that it wasn't our external circumstances that determined our happiness. It was really this interior landscape and that we have some control over that. Yeah, So you were at the monastery and you're describing a little bit about how, you know, you had some initial glimpses of mindfulness that were really positive, but then you got into sort of being there and it was a real struggle. And one of the struggles was that the monks that didn't really speak much English. So you had an English speaking monk finally show up and you guys kind of get into a conversation about your struggles and he gave you some pretty important ideas. Yes, it was really extraordinary because before going to the monastery, had had this one experience with meditation where there was this infinite peace and bliss, and by the time I got to the monastery, I had this expectation that meditation was going to be peaceful and joyful and easy, and when I started practicing, it was the exact opposite. It was my mind going all over the place and just kind of feeling more and more frustrated and impatient and struggling. And when this monk arrived who spoke English, I shared with him my struggles and he looked at me and he said, oh, dear, you're not practicing mindfulness. You're practicing impatience, frustration, judgment. And then he said these five words that I'll never forget. What you practice grows stronger. Exactly what we were talking about with the parable is whatever we practice grows stronger. And we know this now with neural plasticity. Are repeated thoughts, emotions, behaviors, they shape our brain. They actually changed the physical architecture of our brain. And so he explained to me that if I was meditating with judgment, I was growing judgment. Meditating with frustration, I'm growing frustration. So he helped me understand that mindfulness isn't just about paying attention, which is what we normally think. It's just about being present. It's about how you pay attention. Your attitude is what is really essential. I wish I had learned that lesson twenty years earlier, because and listeners have heard this story. I wasn't on again, off again meditator for a long time, and there are a variety of reasons for that, but certainly one of them was the fact that I always felt like I was doing it wrong. You know. It was this constant like, all right, I'm supposed to keep my mind on the breath, and I can't do that, so I'm not doing it right. Gone it and frustration and who wants to do something you feel like you're failing at every five seconds. And so I know that the books I was reading we're telling me come back non judgmentally too, But I almost feel like it has to be stated, at least in my case, in almost over the top language about how kind I approached this, because there is something built into the way we even the basic meditation instructions that I don't think anybody can come to them anymore without preconceived notions and the preconceived notion of oh, my mind should be quiet, which is nobody's mind when they start. And so you know, I think that that's one of the key pieces that's so important about what you're talking about here. And you talk about three pillars of mindfulness, but you say, you know, a really big one and the one that's most neglected is this one about our attitude exactly. And what you're saying is so important and so universal. When I came back from the monastery, I started my PhD program, became a scientist and clinical psychologist, and I started working with people teaching them mindfulness, and every single person I worked with had the exact experience you did whether they were women with breast cancer, or high level CEO s or stressed out college students, every single person had this tremendous self judgment. And it wasn't just about meditation. It wasn't just like I'm doing the meditation wrong. It's like I'm doing life wrong. There's something wrong with me. What happens when we judge ourselves. What happens when we shame ourselves. And so I started studying shame, and what I learned is that shame doesn't work. It doesn't make you a better parent, it doesn't help you become a better meditator, it doesn't help you lose weight. When we shame ourselves, the centers of the brain that have to do with learning shut down, so we literally paralyze ourselves. We keep ourselves stuck in the very habits we want to change. And that's why I started focusing on this attitude of kindness, that this is a pillar of mindfulness. And if we're not practicing kindness, we're not practicing mindfulness, and we certainly aren't going to heal and change and grow. There's so many things you said in there that I think we should spend time on because it's so fundamental. There's a Stanford researcher, B. J. Fogg who's written a lot about how bit change, and he's got a line in his latest book that sort of summarizes what we're saying here, which is that people change better by feeling good than feeling bad. It just works way better. And yet there's a sense if we're really hard on ourselves. You know, we had Kristin Knephon not too long ago. We've had her on a couple of times, this idea of this compassion and kindness. And I always say when I'm working with coaching clients, I say, it's not just that it feels better and that's good, Like feeling better is a really good thing. Being kind to yourself actually makes your internal landscape more hospitable and habitable. But more than that, it's that it works way better. And that's what you're talking about here exactly. Well. I I usually say the opposite of people. I say, if beating yourself up work, I'd say go ahead and do it. It just doesn't work. That's really the key to this idea of kindness and compassion is that they not only feel better to us, which is lovely, but they actually are effective. What happens when we're kind and from passionate is we release opening into our system. We turn on the learning centers of the brain, and we turn on the motivation centers. So this attitude actually gives us the resources we need to change, and I think that's so important. What we know now is that change is something that we actually can learn to do. You know, it's another core thing that I talk with coaching clients about. People think I just can't, I'm lazy, I'm I'm It's not you, it's your approach. And so we know so much about change, and so much of making successful change is about learning. You know, there are people now who are starting to say that they think addiction is largely a learning disorder. It's an inability to learn. And so what you're saying is so critical because any kind of change we want to make, we have to be able to learn. And yet when we shame ourselves, we shut down the ability to learn. So let's talk a little bit more about the neuroscience there. What's happening when we're shaming ourselves. When we shame ourselves, the amygdala triggers this cascade of nor pronepherine and cortisol. It floods our system, It shuts down the learning centers of the brain, and it shuttles all of our resources to survival pathways. We literally go into a fight or flight freeze response because of our own attack. We're attacking ourselves, but the body doesn't know that, and so it literally robs us of the resources we need to do the work of changing. And I agree with you about addiction because one of the hallmarks of addiction is shamed and shame keeps people stuck. And that's why for me, my work in the world is to help people change. And I'm very interested in the processes of learning. And what I found as a professor is that mindfulness is foundational to learning. It creates this environment that actually is conducive to learning. And so in all my class says whether or not we're going to talk about mindfulness, we begin with mindfulness practice just to prepare the mind for learning. And in what ways does mindfulness prepare the mind for learning? Or what sort of mindfulness practices prepare the mind for learning? Answer that either way, I guess yeah, it's a great question. So there are many different mindfulness practices, and for me, the most important thing for people to understand is that mindfulness is separate from meditation. Mindfulness is a way of being, It's a way of living moment by moment, and meditation is kind of the exercise, the workout, like going to the gym that strengthens your ability to be mindful through your day. And so mindfulness is defined as these three key elements, intention, attention, and attitude. And so I'll have my students practice those three elements in different ways, but those are the core of mindfulness, and I'll just talk about each. The first is intention and not simply knowing why am I paying attention? Right? What is the most important thing to me? Your intention is your values, what you care about. So I like to say your intention sets the compass of your heart says this is the direction I want to go. This like the grandmother said, this is the wolf I want to feed. That's your intention. The second element is of course, your attention, and this is about learning how to train our attention in the present moment. And what we've learned is that the mind has a really hard time staying focused. In fact, the mind wanders forty seven percent of the time on average, So that's about half of our life, that we're not here, we're lost in the future, we're sucked into the past, and we miss this moment. And if you think about it, you know, people say that time is our most valuable resource. They're wrong. It's our attention that is our most valuable resource. So mind host trains our attention. And then the final element, the third element, is our attitude, which is what we've been talking about, having this attitude of kindness and curiosity. And so we want to be practicing all three, zeroing in on what's most important, capturing stabilizing our attention, and then attending with kindness. And that practice of mindfulness, which can be done when we're listening, when we're eating, when we're dancing, when we're walking, when we're making love, and when we're meditating. That practice creates this host environment of learning, of evolving, and of growth. One of the things that I think is the biggest challenge to mindfulness and one of the biggest challenges I would say, to spiritual practice in general. And I know that we could say mindfulness is or isn't a spiritual practice. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, but is forgetting It's like we get up, maybe I do your good morning. I love you practice, I get myself out on the right foot. Maybe I meditate, and then I walk out the door. And the next time I think about any of that stuff is like ten at night, I'm laying down, going how is my day? So I'm kind of curious from your perspective, what are some ways that we can we've mindfulness in through more of our lives. I've got a I've got a program called spiritual habits, and that's the whole goals. It takes, you know, behavioral science and spiritual principles. So I have some of my own ideas, but I would love to hear your thoughts on how we can bring more of this to our day to day life, particularly around the problem of forgetting. Yes, beautiful. So what's interesting is the word mindfulness in Polly means to remember. So it's this process of forgetting and remembering and forgetting and remembering, and that is what I believe is the whole of spiritual practice, right, is we forget who we truly are and then we remember and so as we go through the day. I love what you just said about having habits, and it's really building in habits throughout our day that help us remember. So with my students, we create different habits, different practices that that will support them through the day. And as you start to grow these muscles of awareness of mindfulness, they become more natural. So, for example, like you said, when you wake up in the morning, I think when you wake up in the morning and when you go to bed at night, those are the most important times to practice. And that's what most spiritual traditions say right morning and evening. But there's actually research that came out of you see San Francisco last year showing that your mood in the morning and your mood in the evening are the best predictors of your physiological health and longevity. Your mitochondria. Um there are the health of your mitochondria predictive of whether or not you're in a good or bad mood in the morning and evening, and the length of your telomeres, which are the best predictor we have of how long someone's going to live. So anchoring yourself in these practices in the morning and the evening is really beneficial. But like you said, there's this whole day in between, and so it's important to kind of create pauses to schedule time in your day, and it doesn't have to be to meditate. It could be pausing to write down what you're grateful for. It could be going out in nature, you know, doing what dak Or Keltner calls an aw walk, where you walk in nature and you look for the beauty and the good. So much of our day is focused on the negative. You know, there's something in psychology called the negativity bias, and it's really important to start to balance that by specifically orienting or priming the mind to look for the good. So one practice I wrote about this in the book is when I wake up, I say, I wonder what surprising and magical thing is going to happen today. And what that does is it primes my mind to look for the good, to look for the surprising instead of to scan for danger. I'm I'm actually looking for the good. And as I practice this over and over again, it grows stronger. Yeah. I think that's one of the ways that a formal gratitude practice helps me, is that if I'm doing one regularly, and I like to think of it as gratitude slash appreciation, like gratitude could be like oh, I've got a home to live in. But appreciation could be this cup of tea or the way the light shines on that leaf. By trying to recount what those are, it does what you're describing, which is sort of gets me on the lookout. It's the same way like having like a photo a day goal gets my mind sort of looking at what's what's beautiful around me. It is a priming of the mind. I like that. So I want to talk a little bit about mindfulness in general. You you've sort of devoted your adult life to it. It's undergone some stunning growth over the last five years now, I would say, and you talk about one of the concerns is that you say the recent interests often lead to its oversimplification and over commodification, and it can quickly turn into a character of itself that loses its transformational power. So talk to me about what ways does mindfulness lose its transformative power. What are some of the things we want to be on the lookout for. So one of I think the greatest pitfalls of mindfulness is that it can turn into a self improvement project where we're using the practice as more way to beat ourselves up. When we don't measure up to this kind of gold standard of perfection. And so for me, a huge realization was recognizing that this practice isn't about self improvement, it's about self liberation. And what I mean by that is this liberation from our constant self judgment, are constant comparing mind. Am I good enough? And I measuring up into a sense of freedom and a sense of relating to ourselves and to life with with greater kindness, greater openness, and greater flexibility where there's there's not such control or trying to get certainty, but there's a way that we can flow and move with life with greater trust and faith, both in ourselves and in life itself. Yeah. I loved that line from the book that you know, we've got to change our mindset from one of self improvement to one of self liberation. I think that's such a great way of saying it. I used to ask this question a lot on the show early on, and the question I would ask is, how do we balance this desire to improve ourselves and by that I just mean to be better, happier people. How do we balance that with the very fact that that striving gets in the way. It's endemic to all spiritual practice, I think to a certain degree. At least I know for me, it's when I let go of wanting anything to be different that I experienced my greatest spiritual freedom. And yet there's an engine that pushes me forward to engage in spiritual practice. And so I love that improvement versus liberation. But talk more about that. Yeah, well, there's this exquisite paradox. And I think this is where our intention becomes very powerful, because our intention really sets the stage for what is possible. Right. It reminds us again and again of why we're practicing, why we're engaging in these practices. And yet our intention is a direction, it's not a destination. And so again and again we reset our compass. We say, this is the direction I want a head. But we don't get fixated on a destination, and we don't get fixated on some idea of perfection. I think that's the greatest problem is when you think there's some end goal that you're going to get to. Perfection doesn't exist. In fact, the only time it exists is you know when you're dead right about it. Perfection is the antithesis of evolution. We're all throwing, We're always changed. Once you reach perfection is over. So the goal is not the end. The goal is the living and the evolving. And what mindfulness does for me is creates this liberation where every moment becomes precious and every moment is in a sense and end to itself. And if I take care of this moment, I'm going to be preparing myself for the next moment. I love that. Yeah. Audio Shanti said to me once, if you want a perfect spiritual teacher, find a dead one, you know, because because the living ones are gonna disappoint you if you get to know them well enough, like they just will. They're human. I love that idea. You say that perfection isn't possible, but transformation is. And then also that change is a direction, not a destination exactly, and that it happens in small increments if you think about it. Change doesn't happen overnight. And I think that is where most people lose hope, is they give like a big push and then it doesn't change overnight, and they give up. But I write about in the book is something called the five percent principle. And I love this and I use it every day in my life is can I just be five percent kinder? Or can I just exercise five percent more? And it was really interesting because my son was having his mid term exams and he's in high school as he's a freshman, so it's like the first time he's ever had a real exam, and he said, I just can't study for it. It's just too much. And I said, let's just do five percent, like you don't have to deal hunter percent. Let's just take a little five percent end. And you can see how it softened and opened him where there wasn't so much pressure and so much urgency. And I think all of us are children especially, are living with so much urgency and pressure. And what the five percent principle says is let's just go in that direction. We don't need to do it perfectly. Yeah, it's one of the biggest teachings on this show over all the years, is just those baby steps, just little steps at a time. I'm working on a sort of a Dharma talk for a Zen center that I'm doing later this week, and I was talking about that very thing, you know, comparing like these these Hollywood ideas of these big moments. You know, I've had a couple in my life, like the moment I realized I'll die if I don't go into treatment, Like it's a big moment, but it's not really that much bigger than the twenty seven thousand others after that that I chose to go to a meeting, call my sponsor, stay sober, Like those all are so important. And there's the idea of the marginal gains. There's the story of the British cycling coach who you know, he didn't even do five percent. He was like, if we get one percent improvement in lots of different areas, it adds up to this really big change, exactly. And so it's again just like which wolf are you going to feed? You have to feed them on a daily basis, right, And so it's just this little bits of am I'm moving in the direction that's an alignment with my heart, that's an alignment with my soul. That is my deepest desire. And I think that idea of remembering because we forget so easily, right, we forget. So what's important, and that's what these practices are about, is remembering. Because the way people get off course is not because they just all of a sudden veer off the cliff. It's like these little minor broken commitments and these these minor errors that are one percent in judgment. And you know, if you're one percent off and you're driving from California, Texas, you're not going to get there in a different direction. And so what we're trying to do is just re course correct every day. Am I in alignment? Am I living the life I'm supposed to live? Yeah? I love that idea. I think you're you're speaking my language. Let's go back to intention for a second, because one of the things about intention is when do you set intentions? Do you set an intention for the day? Do you set an intention when you sit down to meditate? Do you set an intention for the hour? Do you like what? What are your thoughts on what are the places to set intention? And how important is it to keep one intention or to change your intentions? Or let's just talk more about the practical implementation of intention. Absolutely, it's a great question. So our intentions are evolving, they're always changing, So you don't just set an intention like a New Year's resolution and that's it for the year. And so the way I work with intention is when I sit to meditate. I always begin with an intention just to make the meditation alive. So it's not just like, okay, now it's trying to meditate. I'm doing it again. UM. So I'll set my intention then and and they change, you know. Sometimes it's just made this be of benefit in my life and in the world. There's this kind of sense of an offering a dedication. Um. But sometimes the intentions are more specific. And I'll give you an example. Some years ago, I was away teaching in Europe, and I was gone for about two weeks, and my son at the time was nine years old, and it was the longest we've ever been apart. And I distinctly remember flying back from Copenhagen and I was kind of in the coach middle seat, kind of squished up, and all of a sudden almost having an anxiety attack because I was so worried that I had ruined my relationship with my son, that I had been gone too long, I had broken our attachment bonds. I made the wrong choice, And instead of spiraling into shame and guilt and doubt, I set a clear intention when I get home, the most important thing is to reconnect with my son and So when I got home, I made a commitment for twenty four hours not to unpack, not to check mail, not to do email. And I this very clear intention, and I said to my son, we live in California. I said, do you want to go to the beach because something we both love? He said sure. So I start packing up the perfect picnic and all his perfect foods and his gear, and I'm ready to go to the beach and wave into the neighbors saying like, look what a good mom I am. And I go back inside and I'm like, hey, Jackson, you're ready to go? And he's like, yeah, I don't feel like it. I'm like, what, We're gonna go to the the beach and I'm gonna show you how much I love you, damn it. So he gets on a swim Shottenson. I'm out at the car and I'm ready to go, and I'm in agenda mode, like I want to get to the beach of the perfect sunlight and the perfect time for our picnic. And he's sitting on our front porch and I'm like, hey, let's go, and he doesn't even look up at me, and I start getting impatient, and I'm about to kind of just be like, get in the car, when all of a sudden, I remember my intention. What's the most important thing? Oh yeah, all I want to do is reconnect with my son. I don't care if we go to the beach. And I walked back over to where he was sitting and he was watching these ants and I sit down next to him and we're watching the ants together, and all of a sudden, I feel his little body begin to soften, and I feel his shoulder lean into my shoulder, the sun on our backs, and that was it, That was the most important thing. But we forget, and so our intentions they remind us, That remind us of what do I really care about? Yeah, And so we can have an intention for a day, but we can also have an intention for a situation, a meeting, a conversation, a dinner. What's my intention at dinner tonight with the family. My intention is to be present. My intention is to be kind. And it changes the whole trajectory when you go into a board meeting, when you even for this podcast that we're recording. Before we started recording, I set a really clear intention that would be of benefit. And there's a way in which it shifts the entire direction of what's happening because you get back in alignment with what's important. It's just like saying grace before dinner that it changes the feeling. Instead of everyone rushing in and you know everyone's on their phone and what not, to actually have that pause and remind yourself this is a special time. I think that that intention before meditation is a really important piece. That again another thing that I spent most of my life not doing. I just I still do it. Sometimes I just sit down and I write in and I just find that by stopping and thinking about why I'm doing it makes a big difference. It's essential, and I believe it's essential to keep this practice up to keep up your motivation, because otherwise you forget about why you're doing it and it becomes one more chore. Meditation. Lauren Roche, who is one of my dear friends and teachers, he says, it's a love affair with life that you sit down and you reconnect with your deepest truths, with your deepest felt sense, and to set that intention right. May this liberate me, May this help me be more compassionate, May this help me be more present? So I'm not missing my life. And there's a way in which sometimes I mean, I'm embarrassed to admitted it, but I'm a scientist, so I do it. Sometimes I'll sit down there and I'll be like, oh my god, I really should be writing another book chapter of helping our kids with their homework, and I'll just say, no, no, no no, right now, I'm strengthening my immune system, and I'm improving my sleep quality and decreasing cortisol. And I'll just kind of remind myself of all the benefits, just to kind of remotivate myself, saying, oh, yeah, I'm taking care of myself by doing this, that is my intention. Yeah, let's go through some of those benefits. What what are some of the benefits to a regular meditation practice or a regular mindfulness practice. Well, what's truly extraordinary is that there's such a wide range of benefits that not only does it reduce stress, reduced court as all, lower blood pressure, strength in our immune system. It also helps with cognitive capacities, so it increases our attention and focus, but it also increases our memory, our ability to learn, our ability to innovate and create. And then some of the things I'm most interested in is Meditation increases our empathy and compassion. It increases our self compassion, It increases our happiness levels. It increases our ability to shift perspectives so that we have more cognitive flexibility, we don't get stuck in these rigid thought patterns, and it reduces our cultural by is. It allows us to see each other clearly. And I think, more than anything, this is what our world needs is greater compassion, greater clarity, and greater capacity to sense our inner connection. When you instruct somebody in a basic meditation practice, what are your basic instructions? Well, you can try it right now. I'll guide us through a very short one. All right, listening, if you'd like, you can let your eyes close, and if you don't like to close your eyes, it's fine to keep them open. You can just focus on one point and then just begin by reflecting on your intention. So your intention right now might just to be present and curious, open, and then gathering your attention into your body and watch your mind's gonna want to wander off. It's like, oh, this is my break, it's not your break. Come back. Feel your body, wiggle your toes, feel your feet. Practicing these neural pathways of presence, of attention, feel your breath, and then infusing this with kindness. So maybe soften the body five more, bring five more openness, curiosity, and just practicing for another moment your intention, attention, attitude. You can take another breath in and out, notice how you feel, and if your eyes are closed, you can let some light back into them. Good simple m And so as that practice goes on, do you encourage people to stay with the breath, the sensations of the body, the intention, or all the above? Exactly, it's all of the above. It's this kind of mindfulness, is this synergistic co rived rising of these three elements. And so there's this sense of because if I just focus on my attention, it starts getting a little bit tight and I start getting a little bit like rigid. And so then I infuse it with kindness, with openness, with with curiosity, with gentleness. And if I'm sitting there and I'm getting a little spacey, It's like, why am I doing this in the first place? What's my intention? And so we're softening opening at the same time that we're heightening our attention, and there's this really interesting combination of this laser light clarity and this total ease. And it's not often in more life that we feel this in life, you know, maybe athletes, you know, they described that flow experience, and it's for me very similar to that of this this flow within myself and with life where I'm not spaced out, I'm perfectly clear, and yet I'm at ease. I love that. I think that's a beautiful description of it. We're nearing the end of our time, but I wanted to ask you briefly about your practice. That there's the title of the book called good Morning, I Love You, So let's talk about the good Morning I Love You practice. It's the title of my book in the United States. However, in the United king it was titled Rewire your Mind. Because good Morning, I Love You did not translate into British. I'm teasing a little bit, um, but it was re titled Rewire your Mind. But good Morning, I Love You is really the essence of the book. And I know it's a bit of a hokey title, and as a scientist, they said, no, people aren't going to take you seriously. But this practice is the most powerful practice I know. It completely changed my life and I learned it about ten years ago when I was going through a very difficult divorce and I was waking up every morning with this pit of despair and shame and judgment, and no matter how hard I tried, you know, to shoot those those negative thoughts away, they kept coming back. And my meditation teacher suggested I start practicing some self compassionate highness. And she said, I want you to say I love you, Shawna every day. And I said, no way. It felt so inauthentic and contrived. And she said, how about just saying good morning when you wake up? She said, put your hand on your heart and releases oxytocin. It's good for you. She knew the science would get me and say good morning, Shawna. So the next morning I woke up, put my hand on my heart, took a breath, and said, good morning, Shawna. And it's kind of nice, right Instead of the avalanche of shame, I felt this flash of kindness. And I kept practicing, and as I practiced, I noticed a little bit more kindness, a little less harshness. And a few months later it was my birthday and I was down at a place called Escelin and Big sur one of the most magical places on earth, and I was all alone. I was my first time away from my husband and my son on my birthday. And I woke up and I went down to these mineral hot springs and I slid in. It was before the sun was rising, and I put my hand on my heart to do my good morning practice, and all of a sudden, this image of my grandmother came to me, and before I knew it, I said, good morning, I love you, Shawn, a happy birthday, and it was as if the damn around my heart burst, and this love just poured in my my grandmother's love, my mother's love, my own self love. And I wish I could tell everyone that every day since then has been this bubble of self love and I've never felt judgment or shame again. And that's not true. But what is true is is this pathway of kindness was established, and every morning I feed it with this practice of good morning, I love you, And some days it feels awkward and lonely, and some days I feel profound love. And what I know is the most important thing is I keep practicing. And so I invite everyone who's listening to practice to tomorrow morning, wake up, put your hand on your heart. In fact, maybe just put your hand on your heart. Now. It's this really interesting sensation of self care, you know, this gesture of kindness. And for some people when you do it, it feels really uncomfortable, that's okay, and for some people it feels really soothing. That's okay. But to bring five more kindness, to bring five more care to yourself, and you can put your hand back in your lap. But I invite you to try it tomorrow morning and to actually add the words good morning and your own name, or if you're brave, good morning, I love you, wonderful. Well, you and I are going to continue talking in the post show conversation. I want to talk about something you said in your book that it's possible to change our happiness set point, which is really news to me. So I would love to explore that further and some other ideas in the post your conversation listeners. If you'd like access to that and any episodes, add free episodes and support the show, you can go to one you feed, dot net slash join. So thank you so much Seanna for coming on. It's been such a pleasure. To talk with you. Thank you. If what you just heard was helpful to you, Please consider making a monthly donation to support the One You Feed podcast. When you join our membership community. With this monthly pledge, you get lots of exclusive members only benefits. It's our way of saying thank you for your support now. We are so grateful for the members of our community. We wouldn't be able to do what we do without their support, and we don't take a single dollar for granted. To learn more, make a donation at any level and become a member of the One you Feed community. Go to when you feed dot net slash Join The One You Feed podcast. Would like to sincerely thank our sponsors for supporting the show.

When we shame ourselves, the centers of the brain that have to do with learning shut down, so we literally paralyze ourselves. We keep ourselves stuck in the very habits we want to change. Welcome to the one you feed Throughout time. Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Dr SHAWNA. Shapiro, a professor, author, and internationally recognized expert in mindfulness and compassion. Shauna has published over a hundred and fifty journal articles and three critically acclaimed books translated into sixteen languages. On this episode, Eric and Shauna discuss her book Good Morning, I Love You Mindfulness and Self Compassion Practices to rewire your brain for calm, clarity and joy. Hi Seanna, welcome to the show. Thank you delighted to be here. I'm excited to have you on. We are going to discuss your book Good Morning, I Love You Mindfulness and self Compassion Practices to rewire your brain for calm, clarity and joy. But before we get into the book, let's start, like we always do, with a parable. There's a grandmother who's talking with her grandson and she says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops. He thinks about it for a second, and he looks up at his grandmother and he says, grandmother, which one wins? And the grandmother says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that paragul means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Well. First of all, I love that My dad told me that parable when I was a little girl, and what it has always meant to me, even before I became a scientist and really understood the science behind it, is that where we put our attention, where we put our energy, as what we grow. And if we are practicing negativity or fear or anger, that's what we're growing. And if we're practicing kindness and generosity, that's what we're growing. That's what we're feeding. As the grandmother said. And I think what we know now from neural plasticity is that whatever we are practicing grows stronger. And so what really matters in life is focusing on what you want to grow, what you want to feed. And I think the other thing I love about that parable is it reminds us that none of us are perfect. We all have good and bad inside of us, and that's normal, that's natural, And it really is about choice and having the freedom to choose what parts of ourselves we want to strengthen. Yeah, I love that part of the parable too, that I don't think people talk about that much, which is the normalization that the human condition is a struggle and that we have all this stuff going on inside of us. I love the way the parable sort of described is it sounds like it's a pretty close battle, you know, it sounds which we just you know, really reinforces that this just goes on. So I love that idea, And you know what you said, they're out. What we practice grows is one of the real key messages in your book, which is what we practice grow stronger. And also how we practice, which is something we're really going to get into here in a minute. But I thought I would start by asking you to tell us a little bit about what led you into your initial encounters with mindfulness. Well, I was introduced to mindfulness at one of the lowest points in my life. I was about seventeen, and I had just had spinal fusion surgery, so I had a metal rod put in my spine for scoliosis. Um. It was very unexpected, and so I went from this healthy, active teenager, kind of starved my volleyball team and my whole life senator on my physicality to lying in a hospital bed, unable to walk. And I remember during that time the physical pain was significant, but it was really my mind that tortured me most. It was the fear of the future. What I ever recover and the incredible sense of loss, and I just didn't have the tools to cope. And it was at that time that my father introduced me to mindfulness, and it was one of those moments where just I can't explain it, but it's like you just know, there's a deep knowing. And when I started reading this book, he gave me Wherever you go, there you are by John Cabots, in the first line said, whatever has happened to you, it's already happened. The real question is now what? And there was this sense of hope, like there was a path forward that I perhaps could be happy again. And that journey led me some years later to Thailand and Nepal to a monastery to actually study and practice meditation, and it was there that I experienced for the first time this sense of freedom from the pain of my body and a sense that there was the power of the mind to actually shift both our physical health and our mental well being. And that really led to the last twenty five years of my life. Yeah, you mentioned that sort of instant recognition. I was introduced to Zen Buddhism in in high school by a teacher, and I just remember there was this almost instant like draw, And I think the draw was similar to what you're describing, because it was basically saying, you know what, outside of you can be chaos and pain and suffering. And I was a serious young man as a as a high schooler, and and so I'm reading all these novels and I know that the world lots of bad things can happen, and all of a sudden this thing comes along and says, but even in the midst of that, there's a way to be okay. And I just immediately like that, that's what I want. And that's what was so extraordinary about the monastery was I remember as I was leaving, feeling the sense of well being, the sense of happiness, and reflecting on the fact that nothing much had changed in my life. Right. I hadn't me money, it didn't all of a sudden have a boyfriend. My spine still had its metal rod and scars on my body. But there was this sense of happiness, and I realized that it wasn't our external circumstances that determined our happiness. It was really this interior landscape and that we have some control over that. Yeah, So you were at the monastery and you're describing a little bit about how, you know, you had some initial glimpses of mindfulness that were really positive, but then you got into sort of being there and it was a real struggle. And one of the struggles was that the monks that didn't really speak much English. So you had an English speaking monk finally show up and you guys kind of get into a conversation about your struggles and he gave you some pretty important ideas. Yes, it was really extraordinary because before going to the monastery, had had this one experience with meditation where there was this infinite peace and bliss, and by the time I got to the monastery, I had this expectation that meditation was going to be peaceful and joyful and easy, and when I started practicing, it was the exact opposite. It was my mind going all over the place and just kind of feeling more and more frustrated and impatient and struggling. And when this monk arrived who spoke English, I shared with him my struggles and he looked at me and he said, oh, dear, you're not practicing mindfulness. You're practicing impatience, frustration, judgment. And then he said these five words that I'll never forget. What you practice grows stronger. Exactly what we were talking about with the parable is whatever we practice grows stronger. And we know this now with neural plasticity. Are repeated thoughts, emotions, behaviors, they shape our brain. They actually changed the physical architecture of our brain. And so he explained to me that if I was meditating with judgment, I was growing judgment. Meditating with frustration, I'm growing frustration. So he helped me understand that mindfulness isn't just about paying attention, which is what we normally think. It's just about being present. It's about how you pay attention. Your attitude is what is really essential. I wish I had learned that lesson twenty years earlier, because and listeners have heard this story. I wasn't on again, off again meditator for a long time, and there are a variety of reasons for that, but certainly one of them was the fact that I always felt like I was doing it wrong. You know. It was this constant like, all right, I'm supposed to keep my mind on the breath, and I can't do that, so I'm not doing it right. Gone it and frustration and who wants to do something you feel like you're failing at every five seconds. And so I know that the books I was reading we're telling me come back non judgmentally too, But I almost feel like it has to be stated, at least in my case, in almost over the top language about how kind I approached this, because there is something built into the way we even the basic meditation instructions that I don't think anybody can come to them anymore without preconceived notions and the preconceived notion of oh, my mind should be quiet, which is nobody's mind when they start. And so you know, I think that that's one of the key pieces that's so important about what you're talking about here. And you talk about three pillars of mindfulness, but you say, you know, a really big one and the one that's most neglected is this one about our attitude exactly. And what you're saying is so important and so universal. When I came back from the monastery, I started my PhD program, became a scientist and clinical psychologist, and I started working with people teaching them mindfulness, and every single person I worked with had the exact experience you did whether they were women with breast cancer, or high level CEO s or stressed out college students, every single person had this tremendous self judgment. And it wasn't just about meditation. It wasn't just like I'm doing the meditation wrong. It's like I'm doing life wrong. There's something wrong with me. What happens when we judge ourselves. What happens when we shame ourselves. And so I started studying shame, and what I learned is that shame doesn't work. It doesn't make you a better parent, it doesn't help you become a better meditator, it doesn't help you lose weight. When we shame ourselves, the centers of the brain that have to do with learning shut down, so we literally paralyze ourselves. We keep ourselves stuck in the very habits we want to change. And that's why I started focusing on this attitude of kindness, that this is a pillar of mindfulness. And if we're not practicing kindness, we're not practicing mindfulness, and we certainly aren't going to heal and change and grow. There's so many things you said in there that I think we should spend time on because it's so fundamental. There's a Stanford researcher, B. J. Fogg who's written a lot about how bit change, and he's got a line in his latest book that sort of summarizes what we're saying here, which is that people change better by feeling good than feeling bad. It just works way better. And yet there's a sense if we're really hard on ourselves. You know, we had Kristin Knephon not too long ago. We've had her on a couple of times, this idea of this compassion and kindness. And I always say when I'm working with coaching clients, I say, it's not just that it feels better and that's good, Like feeling better is a really good thing. Being kind to yourself actually makes your internal landscape more hospitable and habitable. But more than that, it's that it works way better. And that's what you're talking about here exactly. Well. I I usually say the opposite of people. I say, if beating yourself up work, I'd say go ahead and do it. It just doesn't work. That's really the key to this idea of kindness and compassion is that they not only feel better to us, which is lovely, but they actually are effective. What happens when we're kind and from passionate is we release opening into our system. We turn on the learning centers of the brain, and we turn on the motivation centers. So this attitude actually gives us the resources we need to change, and I think that's so important. What we know now is that change is something that we actually can learn to do. You know, it's another core thing that I talk with coaching clients about. People think I just can't, I'm lazy, I'm I'm It's not you, it's your approach. And so we know so much about change, and so much of making successful change is about learning. You know, there are people now who are starting to say that they think addiction is largely a learning disorder. It's an inability to learn. And so what you're saying is so critical because any kind of change we want to make, we have to be able to learn. And yet when we shame ourselves, we shut down the ability to learn. So let's talk a little bit more about the neuroscience there. What's happening when we're shaming ourselves. When we shame ourselves, the amygdala triggers this cascade of nor pronepherine and cortisol. It floods our system, It shuts down the learning centers of the brain, and it shuttles all of our resources to survival pathways. We literally go into a fight or flight freeze response because of our own attack. We're attacking ourselves, but the body doesn't know that, and so it literally robs us of the resources we need to do the work of changing. And I agree with you about addiction because one of the hallmarks of addiction is shamed and shame keeps people stuck. And that's why for me, my work in the world is to help people change. And I'm very interested in the processes of learning. And what I found as a professor is that mindfulness is foundational to learning. It creates this environment that actually is conducive to learning. And so in all my class says whether or not we're going to talk about mindfulness, we begin with mindfulness practice just to prepare the mind for learning. And in what ways does mindfulness prepare the mind for learning? Or what sort of mindfulness practices prepare the mind for learning? Answer that either way, I guess yeah, it's a great question. So there are many different mindfulness practices, and for me, the most important thing for people to understand is that mindfulness is separate from meditation. Mindfulness is a way of being, It's a way of living moment by moment, and meditation is kind of the exercise, the workout, like going to the gym that strengthens your ability to be mindful through your day. And so mindfulness is defined as these three key elements, intention, attention, and attitude. And so I'll have my students practice those three elements in different ways, but those are the core of mindfulness, and I'll just talk about each. The first is intention and not simply knowing why am I paying attention? Right? What is the most important thing to me? Your intention is your values, what you care about. So I like to say your intention sets the compass of your heart says this is the direction I want to go. This like the grandmother said, this is the wolf I want to feed. That's your intention. The second element is of course, your attention, and this is about learning how to train our attention in the present moment. And what we've learned is that the mind has a really hard time staying focused. In fact, the mind wanders forty seven percent of the time on average, So that's about half of our life, that we're not here, we're lost in the future, we're sucked into the past, and we miss this moment. And if you think about it, you know, people say that time is our most valuable resource. They're wrong. It's our attention that is our most valuable resource. So mind host trains our attention. And then the final element, the third element, is our attitude, which is what we've been talking about, having this attitude of kindness and curiosity. And so we want to be practicing all three, zeroing in on what's most important, capturing stabilizing our attention, and then attending with kindness. And that practice of mindfulness, which can be done when we're listening, when we're eating, when we're dancing, when we're walking, when we're making love, and when we're meditating. That practice creates this host environment of learning, of evolving, and of growth. One of the things that I think is the biggest challenge to mindfulness and one of the biggest challenges I would say, to spiritual practice in general. And I know that we could say mindfulness is or isn't a spiritual practice. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, but is forgetting It's like we get up, maybe I do your good morning. I love you practice, I get myself out on the right foot. Maybe I meditate, and then I walk out the door. And the next time I think about any of that stuff is like ten at night, I'm laying down, going how is my day? So I'm kind of curious from your perspective, what are some ways that we can we've mindfulness in through more of our lives. I've got a I've got a program called spiritual habits, and that's the whole goals. It takes, you know, behavioral science and spiritual principles. So I have some of my own ideas, but I would love to hear your thoughts on how we can bring more of this to our day to day life, particularly around the problem of forgetting. Yes, beautiful. So what's interesting is the word mindfulness in Polly means to remember. So it's this process of forgetting and remembering and forgetting and remembering, and that is what I believe is the whole of spiritual practice, right, is we forget who we truly are and then we remember and so as we go through the day. I love what you just said about having habits, and it's really building in habits throughout our day that help us remember. So with my students, we create different habits, different practices that that will support them through the day. And as you start to grow these muscles of awareness of mindfulness, they become more natural. So, for example, like you said, when you wake up in the morning, I think when you wake up in the morning and when you go to bed at night, those are the most important times to practice. And that's what most spiritual traditions say right morning and evening. But there's actually research that came out of you see San Francisco last year showing that your mood in the morning and your mood in the evening are the best predictors of your physiological health and longevity. Your mitochondria. Um there are the health of your mitochondria predictive of whether or not you're in a good or bad mood in the morning and evening, and the length of your telomeres, which are the best predictor we have of how long someone's going to live. So anchoring yourself in these practices in the morning and the evening is really beneficial. But like you said, there's this whole day in between, and so it's important to kind of create pauses to schedule time in your day, and it doesn't have to be to meditate. It could be pausing to write down what you're grateful for. It could be going out in nature, you know, doing what dak Or Keltner calls an aw walk, where you walk in nature and you look for the beauty and the good. So much of our day is focused on the negative. You know, there's something in psychology called the negativity bias, and it's really important to start to balance that by specifically orienting or priming the mind to look for the good. So one practice I wrote about this in the book is when I wake up, I say, I wonder what surprising and magical thing is going to happen today. And what that does is it primes my mind to look for the good, to look for the surprising instead of to scan for danger. I'm I'm actually looking for the good. And as I practice this over and over again, it grows stronger. Yeah. I think that's one of the ways that a formal gratitude practice helps me, is that if I'm doing one regularly, and I like to think of it as gratitude slash appreciation, like gratitude could be like oh, I've got a home to live in. But appreciation could be this cup of tea or the way the light shines on that leaf. By trying to recount what those are, it does what you're describing, which is sort of gets me on the lookout. It's the same way like having like a photo a day goal gets my mind sort of looking at what's what's beautiful around me. It is a priming of the mind. I like that. So I want to talk a little bit about mindfulness in general. You you've sort of devoted your adult life to it. It's undergone some stunning growth over the last five years now, I would say, and you talk about one of the concerns is that you say the recent interests often lead to its oversimplification and over commodification, and it can quickly turn into a character of itself that loses its transformational power. So talk to me about what ways does mindfulness lose its transformative power. What are some of the things we want to be on the lookout for. So one of I think the greatest pitfalls of mindfulness is that it can turn into a self improvement project where we're using the practice as more way to beat ourselves up. When we don't measure up to this kind of gold standard of perfection. And so for me, a huge realization was recognizing that this practice isn't about self improvement, it's about self liberation. And what I mean by that is this liberation from our constant self judgment, are constant comparing mind. Am I good enough? And I measuring up into a sense of freedom and a sense of relating to ourselves and to life with with greater kindness, greater openness, and greater flexibility where there's there's not such control or trying to get certainty, but there's a way that we can flow and move with life with greater trust and faith, both in ourselves and in life itself. Yeah. I loved that line from the book that you know, we've got to change our mindset from one of self improvement to one of self liberation. I think that's such a great way of saying it. I used to ask this question a lot on the show early on, and the question I would ask is, how do we balance this desire to improve ourselves and by that I just mean to be better, happier people. How do we balance that with the very fact that that striving gets in the way. It's endemic to all spiritual practice, I think to a certain degree. At least I know for me, it's when I let go of wanting anything to be different that I experienced my greatest spiritual freedom. And yet there's an engine that pushes me forward to engage in spiritual practice. And so I love that improvement versus liberation. But talk more about that. Yeah, well, there's this exquisite paradox. And I think this is where our intention becomes very powerful, because our intention really sets the stage for what is possible. Right. It reminds us again and again of why we're practicing, why we're engaging in these practices. And yet our intention is a direction, it's not a destination. And so again and again we reset our compass. We say, this is the direction I want a head. But we don't get fixated on a destination, and we don't get fixated on some idea of perfection. I think that's the greatest problem is when you think there's some end goal that you're going to get to. Perfection doesn't exist. In fact, the only time it exists is you know when you're dead right about it. Perfection is the antithesis of evolution. We're all throwing, We're always changed. Once you reach perfection is over. So the goal is not the end. The goal is the living and the evolving. And what mindfulness does for me is creates this liberation where every moment becomes precious and every moment is in a sense and end to itself. And if I take care of this moment, I'm going to be preparing myself for the next moment. I love that. Yeah. Audio Shanti said to me once, if you want a perfect spiritual teacher, find a dead one, you know, because because the living ones are gonna disappoint you if you get to know them well enough, like they just will. They're human. I love that idea. You say that perfection isn't possible, but transformation is. And then also that change is a direction, not a destination exactly, and that it happens in small increments if you think about it. Change doesn't happen overnight. And I think that is where most people lose hope, is they give like a big push and then it doesn't change overnight, and they give up. But I write about in the book is something called the five percent principle. And I love this and I use it every day in my life is can I just be five percent kinder? Or can I just exercise five percent more? And it was really interesting because my son was having his mid term exams and he's in high school as he's a freshman, so it's like the first time he's ever had a real exam, and he said, I just can't study for it. It's just too much. And I said, let's just do five percent, like you don't have to deal hunter percent. Let's just take a little five percent end. And you can see how it softened and opened him where there wasn't so much pressure and so much urgency. And I think all of us are children especially, are living with so much urgency and pressure. And what the five percent principle says is let's just go in that direction. We don't need to do it perfectly. Yeah, it's one of the biggest teachings on this show over all the years, is just those baby steps, just little steps at a time. I'm working on a sort of a Dharma talk for a Zen center that I'm doing later this week, and I was talking about that very thing, you know, comparing like these these Hollywood ideas of these big moments. You know, I've had a couple in my life, like the moment I realized I'll die if I don't go into treatment, Like it's a big moment, but it's not really that much bigger than the twenty seven thousand others after that that I chose to go to a meeting, call my sponsor, stay sober, Like those all are so important. And there's the idea of the marginal gains. There's the story of the British cycling coach who you know, he didn't even do five percent. He was like, if we get one percent improvement in lots of different areas, it adds up to this really big change, exactly. And so it's again just like which wolf are you going to feed? You have to feed them on a daily basis, right, And so it's just this little bits of am I'm moving in the direction that's an alignment with my heart, that's an alignment with my soul. That is my deepest desire. And I think that idea of remembering because we forget so easily, right, we forget. So what's important, and that's what these practices are about, is remembering. Because the way people get off course is not because they just all of a sudden veer off the cliff. It's like these little minor broken commitments and these these minor errors that are one percent in judgment. And you know, if you're one percent off and you're driving from California, Texas, you're not going to get there in a different direction. And so what we're trying to do is just re course correct every day. Am I in alignment? Am I living the life I'm supposed to live? Yeah? I love that idea. I think you're you're speaking my language. Let's go back to intention for a second, because one of the things about intention is when do you set intentions? Do you set an intention for the day? Do you set an intention when you sit down to meditate? Do you set an intention for the hour? Do you like what? What are your thoughts on what are the places to set intention? And how important is it to keep one intention or to change your intentions? Or let's just talk more about the practical implementation of intention. Absolutely, it's a great question. So our intentions are evolving, they're always changing, So you don't just set an intention like a New Year's resolution and that's it for the year. And so the way I work with intention is when I sit to meditate. I always begin with an intention just to make the meditation alive. So it's not just like, okay, now it's trying to meditate. I'm doing it again. UM. So I'll set my intention then and and they change, you know. Sometimes it's just made this be of benefit in my life and in the world. There's this kind of sense of an offering a dedication. Um. But sometimes the intentions are more specific. And I'll give you an example. Some years ago, I was away teaching in Europe, and I was gone for about two weeks, and my son at the time was nine years old, and it was the longest we've ever been apart. And I distinctly remember flying back from Copenhagen and I was kind of in the coach middle seat, kind of squished up, and all of a sudden almost having an anxiety attack because I was so worried that I had ruined my relationship with my son, that I had been gone too long, I had broken our attachment bonds. I made the wrong choice, And instead of spiraling into shame and guilt and doubt, I set a clear intention when I get home, the most important thing is to reconnect with my son and So when I got home, I made a commitment for twenty four hours not to unpack, not to check mail, not to do email. And I this very clear intention, and I said to my son, we live in California. I said, do you want to go to the beach because something we both love? He said sure. So I start packing up the perfect picnic and all his perfect foods and his gear, and I'm ready to go to the beach and wave into the neighbors saying like, look what a good mom I am. And I go back inside and I'm like, hey, Jackson, you're ready to go? And he's like, yeah, I don't feel like it. I'm like, what, We're gonna go to the the beach and I'm gonna show you how much I love you, damn it. So he gets on a swim Shottenson. I'm out at the car and I'm ready to go, and I'm in agenda mode, like I want to get to the beach of the perfect sunlight and the perfect time for our picnic. And he's sitting on our front porch and I'm like, hey, let's go, and he doesn't even look up at me, and I start getting impatient, and I'm about to kind of just be like, get in the car, when all of a sudden, I remember my intention. What's the most important thing? Oh yeah, all I want to do is reconnect with my son. I don't care if we go to the beach. And I walked back over to where he was sitting and he was watching these ants and I sit down next to him and we're watching the ants together, and all of a sudden, I feel his little body begin to soften, and I feel his shoulder lean into my shoulder, the sun on our backs, and that was it, That was the most important thing. But we forget, and so our intentions they remind us, That remind us of what do I really care about? Yeah, And so we can have an intention for a day, but we can also have an intention for a situation, a meeting, a conversation, a dinner. What's my intention at dinner tonight with the family. My intention is to be present. My intention is to be kind. And it changes the whole trajectory when you go into a board meeting, when you even for this podcast that we're recording. Before we started recording, I set a really clear intention that would be of benefit. And there's a way in which it shifts the entire direction of what's happening because you get back in alignment with what's important. It's just like saying grace before dinner that it changes the feeling. Instead of everyone rushing in and you know everyone's on their phone and what not, to actually have that pause and remind yourself this is a special time. I think that that intention before meditation is a really important piece. That again another thing that I spent most of my life not doing. I just I still do it. Sometimes I just sit down and I write in and I just find that by stopping and thinking about why I'm doing it makes a big difference. It's essential, and I believe it's essential to keep this practice up to keep up your motivation, because otherwise you forget about why you're doing it and it becomes one more chore. Meditation. Lauren Roche, who is one of my dear friends and teachers, he says, it's a love affair with life that you sit down and you reconnect with your deepest truths, with your deepest felt sense, and to set that intention right. May this liberate me, May this help me be more compassionate, May this help me be more present? So I'm not missing my life. And there's a way in which sometimes I mean, I'm embarrassed to admitted it, but I'm a scientist, so I do it. Sometimes I'll sit down there and I'll be like, oh my god, I really should be writing another book chapter of helping our kids with their homework, and I'll just say, no, no, no no, right now, I'm strengthening my immune system, and I'm improving my sleep quality and decreasing cortisol. And I'll just kind of remind myself of all the benefits, just to kind of remotivate myself, saying, oh, yeah, I'm taking care of myself by doing this, that is my intention. Yeah, let's go through some of those benefits. What what are some of the benefits to a regular meditation practice or a regular mindfulness practice. Well, what's truly extraordinary is that there's such a wide range of benefits that not only does it reduce stress, reduced court as all, lower blood pressure, strength in our immune system. It also helps with cognitive capacities, so it increases our attention and focus, but it also increases our memory, our ability to learn, our ability to innovate and create. And then some of the things I'm most interested in is Meditation increases our empathy and compassion. It increases our self compassion, It increases our happiness levels. It increases our ability to shift perspectives so that we have more cognitive flexibility, we don't get stuck in these rigid thought patterns, and it reduces our cultural by is. It allows us to see each other clearly. And I think, more than anything, this is what our world needs is greater compassion, greater clarity, and greater capacity to sense our inner connection. When you instruct somebody in a basic meditation practice, what are your basic instructions? Well, you can try it right now. I'll guide us through a very short one. All right, listening, if you'd like, you can let your eyes close, and if you don't like to close your eyes, it's fine to keep them open. You can just focus on one point and then just begin by reflecting on your intention. So your intention right now might just to be present and curious, open, and then gathering your attention into your body and watch your mind's gonna want to wander off. It's like, oh, this is my break, it's not your break. Come back. Feel your body, wiggle your toes, feel your feet. Practicing these neural pathways of presence, of attention, feel your breath, and then infusing this with kindness. So maybe soften the body five more, bring five more openness, curiosity, and just practicing for another moment your intention, attention, attitude. You can take another breath in and out, notice how you feel, and if your eyes are closed, you can let some light back into them. Good simple m And so as that practice goes on, do you encourage people to stay with the breath, the sensations of the body, the intention, or all the above? Exactly, it's all of the above. It's this kind of mindfulness, is this synergistic co rived rising of these three elements. And so there's this sense of because if I just focus on my attention, it starts getting a little bit tight and I start getting a little bit like rigid. And so then I infuse it with kindness, with openness, with with curiosity, with gentleness. And if I'm sitting there and I'm getting a little spacey, It's like, why am I doing this in the first place? What's my intention? And so we're softening opening at the same time that we're heightening our attention, and there's this really interesting combination of this laser light clarity and this total ease. And it's not often in more life that we feel this in life, you know, maybe athletes, you know, they described that flow experience, and it's for me very similar to that of this this flow within myself and with life where I'm not spaced out, I'm perfectly clear, and yet I'm at ease. I love that. I think that's a beautiful description of it. We're nearing the end of our time, but I wanted to ask you briefly about your practice. That there's the title of the book called good Morning, I Love You, So let's talk about the good Morning I Love You practice. It's the title of my book in the United States. However, in the United king it was titled Rewire your Mind. Because good Morning, I Love You did not translate into British. I'm teasing a little bit, um, but it was re titled Rewire your Mind. But good Morning, I Love You is really the essence of the book. And I know it's a bit of a hokey title, and as a scientist, they said, no, people aren't going to take you seriously. But this practice is the most powerful practice I know. It completely changed my life and I learned it about ten years ago when I was going through a very difficult divorce and I was waking up every morning with this pit of despair and shame and judgment, and no matter how hard I tried, you know, to shoot those those negative thoughts away, they kept coming back. And my meditation teacher suggested I start practicing some self compassionate highness. And she said, I want you to say I love you, Shawna every day. And I said, no way. It felt so inauthentic and contrived. And she said, how about just saying good morning when you wake up? She said, put your hand on your heart and releases oxytocin. It's good for you. She knew the science would get me and say good morning, Shawna. So the next morning I woke up, put my hand on my heart, took a breath, and said, good morning, Shawna. And it's kind of nice, right Instead of the avalanche of shame, I felt this flash of kindness. And I kept practicing, and as I practiced, I noticed a little bit more kindness, a little less harshness. And a few months later it was my birthday and I was down at a place called Escelin and Big sur one of the most magical places on earth, and I was all alone. I was my first time away from my husband and my son on my birthday. And I woke up and I went down to these mineral hot springs and I slid in. It was before the sun was rising, and I put my hand on my heart to do my good morning practice, and all of a sudden, this image of my grandmother came to me, and before I knew it, I said, good morning, I love you, Shawn, a happy birthday, and it was as if the damn around my heart burst, and this love just poured in my my grandmother's love, my mother's love, my own self love. And I wish I could tell everyone that every day since then has been this bubble of self love and I've never felt judgment or shame again. And that's not true. But what is true is is this pathway of kindness was established, and every morning I feed it with this practice of good morning, I love you, And some days it feels awkward and lonely, and some days I feel profound love. And what I know is the most important thing is I keep practicing. And so I invite everyone who's listening to practice to tomorrow morning, wake up, put your hand on your heart. In fact, maybe just put your hand on your heart. Now. It's this really interesting sensation of self care, you know, this gesture of kindness. And for some people when you do it, it feels really uncomfortable, that's okay, and for some people it feels really soothing. That's okay. But to bring five more kindness, to bring five more care to yourself, and you can put your hand back in your lap. But I invite you to try it tomorrow morning and to actually add the words good morning and your own name, or if you're brave, good morning, I love you, wonderful. Well, you and I are going to continue talking in the post show conversation. I want to talk about something you said in your book that it's possible to change our happiness set point, which is really news to me. So I would love to explore that further and some other ideas in the post your conversation listeners. If you'd like access to that and any episodes, add free episodes and support the show, you can go to one you feed, dot net slash join. So thank you so much Seanna for coming on. It's been such a pleasure. To talk with you. Thank you. If what you just heard was helpful to you, Please consider making a monthly donation to support the One You Feed podcast. When you join our membership community. With this monthly pledge, you get lots of exclusive members only benefits. 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