If you are chasing more because you just want a bigger number on your scoreboard, you want more fancy things to try to impress other people for whatever reason, you are going to end up losing sight of the things that are more important.

If you are chasing more because you just want a bigger number on your scoreboard, you want more fancy things to try to impress other people for whatever reason, you are going to end up losing sight of the things that are more important.

Along that journey, Welcome to the one you feed Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wealth.

Along that journey, Welcome to the one you feed Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wealth.

What if everything you've been told about wealth is missing the point? For years, we've chased more money, success, achievement, only to find it doesn't always bring fulfillment. Today's guests saw Hill Bloom had everything society says should make you happy. But it wasn't until a quiet morning with his newborn son that he understood what true wealth feels like. So how do we balance striving for more with appreciating what's right in front of us? Can we redefine wealth beyond dollars in status? What happens when we start treating time as our most valuable currency. That's what we're going to explore today. I'm Eric Zimmer and this is the one you feed Hi Sawhill, Welcome to the show.

What if everything you've been told about wealth is missing the point? For years, we've chased more money, success, achievement, only to find it doesn't always bring fulfillment. Today's guests saw Hill Bloom had everything society says should make you happy. But it wasn't until a quiet morning with his newborn son that he understood what true wealth feels like. So how do we balance striving for more with appreciating what's right in front of us? Can we redefine wealth beyond dollars in status? What happens when we start treating time as our most valuable currency. That's what we're going to explore today. I'm Eric Zimmer and this is the one you feed Hi Sawhill, Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. Thrilled to be here.

Thank you so much for having me. Thrilled to be here.

I'm really excited to talk with you about your new book, which is called The Five Types of Wealth, which is really a holistic way of looking at the different ways in our lives than which we can be wealthy. And I think it's interesting to look at as a way of seeing where we might want to be more wealthy, but also as a way of really recognizing there's a lot of places we already are wealthy. And I think recognizing that is really important because self improvement is part of the game, but so is self acceptance, you know, and appreciating what we have. And we're going to get into all that after the parable. But let's start there. And in the parable, there's a grandparent who's talking with their grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. What is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops think about it for a second. They look up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life, in the work that you do.

I'm really excited to talk with you about your new book, which is called The Five Types of Wealth, which is really a holistic way of looking at the different ways in our lives than which we can be wealthy. And I think it's interesting to look at as a way of seeing where we might want to be more wealthy, but also as a way of really recognizing there's a lot of places we already are wealthy. And I think recognizing that is really important because self improvement is part of the game, but so is self acceptance, you know, and appreciating what we have. And we're going to get into all that after the parable. But let's start there. And in the parable, there's a grandparent who's talking with their grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. What is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops think about it for a second. They look up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life, in the work that you do.

It really is an important representation to me of a simple fact, which is that you have the power to choose. Each day, we have a choice in which wolf will feed. We can feed the dark wolf and be filled with anger, fear, hate, jealousy, envy, or we can feed the light wolf and be filled with hope, kindness, joy, love, optimism, and at the end of the day, that choice is fundamentally yours.

It really is an important representation to me of a simple fact, which is that you have the power to choose. Each day, we have a choice in which wolf will feed. We can feed the dark wolf and be filled with anger, fear, hate, jealousy, envy, or we can feed the light wolf and be filled with hope, kindness, joy, love, optimism, and at the end of the day, that choice is fundamentally yours.

Wonderful. I'd like to start with a quote that you use at least once in the book, if not a couple of times, which is you say, never let the quest for more distract you from the beauty of enough. Let's start there.

Wonderful. I'd like to start with a quote that you use at least once in the book, if not a couple of times, which is you say, never let the quest for more distract you from the beauty of enough. Let's start there.

I'm glad you pulled this out because this is such a fundamental and important concept to the entire book, the entire idea, and really my life in general. The genesis of this was a very personal experience, which was that shortly after my son was born, you know, after a two plus year journey with infertility that my wife and I had faced, we were blessed with a little boy and I was walking him around outside early one morning and an old man came up to me on the street and said, I remember standing here with my newborn daughter. She's forty five years old. Now it goes by fast, cherish it. And I took my son home and I brought him into bed. My wife was still asleep, and the sun was kind of coming through the windows, and he had this little smile on his face, and I just had this sensation that for the first time in my life, I had arrived. But there wasn't anything more that I wanted. That moment was truly enough, And that was when that line came to me of never let the quest for more distract you from the beauty of enough, because it is so easy in life to allow the things that you prayed for to become the things that you complain about. We see that over and over again in our own lives. The house that we prayed for becomes the house that we complain is too small. The car that we prayed for becomes the car that we can't wait to trade in. The relationship we prayed for becomes the relationship with the person that we criticize. Today's version of more becomes tomorrow's version of not enough if we allow it to, if we don't stop, pause, catch ourselves and pull ourselves back into that moment and recognize that sometimes you are literally living out your prayers. So that is what that quote, what that line is all about. To never allow that chase, that quest for the more, whatever it is, whatever more we're searching for, to distract us, to pull us away from the beauty of enough in the present moment.

I'm glad you pulled this out because this is such a fundamental and important concept to the entire book, the entire idea, and really my life in general. The genesis of this was a very personal experience, which was that shortly after my son was born, you know, after a two plus year journey with infertility that my wife and I had faced, we were blessed with a little boy and I was walking him around outside early one morning and an old man came up to me on the street and said, I remember standing here with my newborn daughter. She's forty five years old. Now it goes by fast, cherish it. And I took my son home and I brought him into bed. My wife was still asleep, and the sun was kind of coming through the windows, and he had this little smile on his face, and I just had this sensation that for the first time in my life, I had arrived. But there wasn't anything more that I wanted. That moment was truly enough, And that was when that line came to me of never let the quest for more distract you from the beauty of enough, because it is so easy in life to allow the things that you prayed for to become the things that you complain about. We see that over and over again in our own lives. The house that we prayed for becomes the house that we complain is too small. The car that we prayed for becomes the car that we can't wait to trade in. The relationship we prayed for becomes the relationship with the person that we criticize. Today's version of more becomes tomorrow's version of not enough if we allow it to, if we don't stop, pause, catch ourselves and pull ourselves back into that moment and recognize that sometimes you are literally living out your prayers. So that is what that quote, what that line is all about. To never allow that chase, that quest for the more, whatever it is, whatever more we're searching for, to distract us, to pull us away from the beauty of enough in the present moment.

Yeah, that's so beautifully said and so very true. We adapt to nearly anything and start to take it for granted, and then you're even going a step further, which is we then see it as a burden, which is a really fascinating thing. And is a surefire way to never be happy in life. And so there's this balance, and I think I've been exploring it on this show for a decade and I mentioned it kind of in the beginning, and you're getting to it right in this question. How can I both strive for more, whether that be financially, in my relationships, et cetera. How can I do that? Because I do think that's a natural human thing, it seems built into us, and also be satisfied with exactly where I am. And doing both those things is at the same time, turns out to be the thing that's an art far more than it's a science.

Yeah, that's so beautifully said and so very true. We adapt to nearly anything and start to take it for granted, and then you're even going a step further, which is we then see it as a burden, which is a really fascinating thing. And is a surefire way to never be happy in life. And so there's this balance, and I think I've been exploring it on this show for a decade and I mentioned it kind of in the beginning, and you're getting to it right in this question. How can I both strive for more, whether that be financially, in my relationships, et cetera. How can I do that? Because I do think that's a natural human thing, it seems built into us, and also be satisfied with exactly where I am. And doing both those things is at the same time, turns out to be the thing that's an art far more than it's a science.

The fundamental tension there is an important one too to wrestle with, And the way that I wrestle with it is to say that the quest for more needs to be grounded in the right things. Yeah, it is dangerous if it is about something as surface level as money or fancy things. If you are chasing more because you just want a bigger number on your scoreboard, you want more fancy things to try to impress other people for whatever reason, you are going to end up losing sight of the things that are more important along that journey. If you are chasing more because it's your purpose to go and build something big, because you really feel fundamentally that you want to grow, that you want to develop yourself. You're trying to get better at the things that you're working on. That is a very well grounded and important pursuit, and there's nothing wrong with that. One where it goes awry for people and where they lead themselves on the road to the rich yet miserable existence that we know a lot of people are living is when that chase for more is just about these things like money or fancy things.

The fundamental tension there is an important one too to wrestle with, And the way that I wrestle with it is to say that the quest for more needs to be grounded in the right things. Yeah, it is dangerous if it is about something as surface level as money or fancy things. If you are chasing more because you just want a bigger number on your scoreboard, you want more fancy things to try to impress other people for whatever reason, you are going to end up losing sight of the things that are more important along that journey. If you are chasing more because it's your purpose to go and build something big, because you really feel fundamentally that you want to grow, that you want to develop yourself. You're trying to get better at the things that you're working on. That is a very well grounded and important pursuit, and there's nothing wrong with that. One where it goes awry for people and where they lead themselves on the road to the rich yet miserable existence that we know a lot of people are living is when that chase for more is just about these things like money or fancy things.

I agree with you that that's a fundamental distinction, and I have found even in my own life, even if my striving for more is pointed in the right direction, you know, I want to be become a kinder person, or you know, it's about growing this show, which is kind of the way that I try and put love into the world, that even within there, I can get caught in this more and more and more, which pulls me out of the moment. So I think what you're saying is, first off, we've got to be really clear about what we're striving for, and if that's misguided, we're always going to be off track. And then the second part comes to even when I'm on the right track, how do I relate to being on that track? And how do I relate to being on a journey that you know there's not a destination on?

I agree with you that that's a fundamental distinction, and I have found even in my own life, even if my striving for more is pointed in the right direction, you know, I want to be become a kinder person, or you know, it's about growing this show, which is kind of the way that I try and put love into the world, that even within there, I can get caught in this more and more and more, which pulls me out of the moment. So I think what you're saying is, first off, we've got to be really clear about what we're striving for, and if that's misguided, we're always going to be off track. And then the second part comes to even when I'm on the right track, how do I relate to being on that track? And how do I relate to being on a journey that you know there's not a destination on?

Yeah, I think that this comes back to a really beautiful quote. I believe it's Victor Frankel who said that our power exists in the space that we can create between stimulus and response, and that concept of space is really essential to the whole book. It's one of the pillars of what I think of as mental wealth is the ability to create space. And the reason that space is so important is because that is where you actually get to choose your response. To go back to the wolves parable, the ability to choose every single day, you actually need to have the space to choose. You need to be able to stop and pause so that you can choose your response. Which wolf are you going to feed? The same applies to this never ending chase. If you're able to pause on a daily basis and appreciate the things that you have while still pursuing the things that you don't that are grounded hopefully in the right reasons, that is where you find your sort of Goldilocks like your sweet Spot. From a life standpoint, I think it was Kurt Vonnegut. In nineteen ninety seven, he gave a commencement speech at Rice University and he talks about his uncle Alex, who had this tendency when things were going nice and you know, the day was really pretty out, he would just stop. He would pause, and he would look up at the sky and he would say, if this isn't nice, what is? And that idea of forcing yourself to pause and appreciate those moments literally say out loud, say, if this isn't nice, what is? On a more regular basis, I guarantee you will find new joy in the journey in your life.

Yeah, I think that this comes back to a really beautiful quote. I believe it's Victor Frankel who said that our power exists in the space that we can create between stimulus and response, and that concept of space is really essential to the whole book. It's one of the pillars of what I think of as mental wealth is the ability to create space. And the reason that space is so important is because that is where you actually get to choose your response. To go back to the wolves parable, the ability to choose every single day, you actually need to have the space to choose. You need to be able to stop and pause so that you can choose your response. Which wolf are you going to feed? The same applies to this never ending chase. If you're able to pause on a daily basis and appreciate the things that you have while still pursuing the things that you don't that are grounded hopefully in the right reasons, that is where you find your sort of Goldilocks like your sweet Spot. From a life standpoint, I think it was Kurt Vonnegut. In nineteen ninety seven, he gave a commencement speech at Rice University and he talks about his uncle Alex, who had this tendency when things were going nice and you know, the day was really pretty out, he would just stop. He would pause, and he would look up at the sky and he would say, if this isn't nice, what is? And that idea of forcing yourself to pause and appreciate those moments literally say out loud, say, if this isn't nice, what is? On a more regular basis, I guarantee you will find new joy in the journey in your life.

Yeah. Vonagett also has that classic story about enough of where he's at a party with Joseph Heller, the author of Catch twenty two, and they're looking around and seeing all these people who have way more than they do, and Joseph Heller, basically I think I'm paraphrasing, says something like, yeah, but I have something they don't, which is I know what enough is?

Yeah. Vonagett also has that classic story about enough of where he's at a party with Joseph Heller, the author of Catch twenty two, and they're looking around and seeing all these people who have way more than they do, and Joseph Heller, basically I think I'm paraphrasing, says something like, yeah, but I have something they don't, which is I know what enough is?

Yeah, exactly, the knowledge that I've got enough. It sort of all relates to one of my favorite stories of the fisherman and the investment banker. I don't know if you've ever heard this, but like this investment banker goes down to an old Mexican fishing village and he comes across this old boat and the fisherman is in the boat and has caught a few fish. And the banker says, how long did it take you to catch those fish? And the fisherman says, only a little while. And the banker asks, why didn't you fish for longer? The fisherman says, well, I have everything I need. In the morning, I fish for a little while, and I go home. I have lunch with my wife, then I take a nap, and then in the evening I go into town and sing and dance with my friends. And the banker's like, you got this all wrong. What you need to do is you need to fish for longer so you can catch more fish. Then you can buy a second boat. Than that boat will make money. You buy a third boat, a fourth boat, a fifth boat. Eventually you build a fishing boat enterprise. You move to the big city, you take the company public, and you'll make millions. And the fisherman says, and then what and the banker says, and then what then you can retire and move to a small fishing village. You can fish for a little while in the morning, and then you can go home. You can have lunch with your wife, take a nap, and in the evening go into town and play music and dance with your friends. And the fisherman kind of just smiles and walks off, and that story. It's interesting. Is common interpretation is to say that the banker is wrong and the fisherman is right. I actually think it's more nuanced than that. I really think this is about the two of them having a fundamentally different definition of what enough looks like. The banker may be grounded in this purpose of building something big, creating jobs, creating this growth, pursuing his definition, and he's trying to apply that map of reality to the fisherman's terrain, which is fundamentally very different. The fisherman is already living his enough life, and so for the two to be seen as in conflict is very interesting because that's what happens when we spend all of our time on our phones comparing our lives to other people. We start getting obsessed with someone else's life. Yep, and starting to apply their map to our reality, which is a recipe for discontentment.

Yeah, exactly, the knowledge that I've got enough. It sort of all relates to one of my favorite stories of the fisherman and the investment banker. I don't know if you've ever heard this, but like this investment banker goes down to an old Mexican fishing village and he comes across this old boat and the fisherman is in the boat and has caught a few fish. And the banker says, how long did it take you to catch those fish? And the fisherman says, only a little while. And the banker asks, why didn't you fish for longer? The fisherman says, well, I have everything I need. In the morning, I fish for a little while, and I go home. I have lunch with my wife, then I take a nap, and then in the evening I go into town and sing and dance with my friends. And the banker's like, you got this all wrong. What you need to do is you need to fish for longer so you can catch more fish. Then you can buy a second boat. Than that boat will make money. You buy a third boat, a fourth boat, a fifth boat. Eventually you build a fishing boat enterprise. You move to the big city, you take the company public, and you'll make millions. And the fisherman says, and then what and the banker says, and then what then you can retire and move to a small fishing village. You can fish for a little while in the morning, and then you can go home. You can have lunch with your wife, take a nap, and in the evening go into town and play music and dance with your friends. And the fisherman kind of just smiles and walks off, and that story. It's interesting. Is common interpretation is to say that the banker is wrong and the fisherman is right. I actually think it's more nuanced than that. I really think this is about the two of them having a fundamentally different definition of what enough looks like. The banker may be grounded in this purpose of building something big, creating jobs, creating this growth, pursuing his definition, and he's trying to apply that map of reality to the fisherman's terrain, which is fundamentally very different. The fisherman is already living his enough life, and so for the two to be seen as in conflict is very interesting because that's what happens when we spend all of our time on our phones comparing our lives to other people. We start getting obsessed with someone else's life. Yep, and starting to apply their map to our reality, which is a recipe for discontentment.

Absolutely. I had an experience of this not too long ago. We spend a lot of time in Atlanta. My partner Ginny, is from there, and I'll be driving around Buckhead and one of the most noticeable things about certain areas of town are the houses are enormous on these giant plots of land, Like it's a lot of money that you just see kind of right out there, and as if I spend enough time driving around there, my brain starts going like, gosh, shouldn't I maybe I should have a house like that? Why don't I have enough money to have a house like that? And then at the same moment as I was thinking that, I turned my attention back to what I was listening to on the radio, and it was a band called the Gaslight Anthem. They're kind of a punk type band a little bit, and then it reminded me of what my ethos actually is, and I was just able to see right in that moment how easily I was getting turned away from my ethos to buy what I was surrounded by and what was attractive, and I needed help to be reminded of where my true values are. And I think that's kind of what you're speaking to here. And the problem is sometimes we don't get those reminders often enough, and so we just get more and more sucked into this idea of someone else's success.

Absolutely. I had an experience of this not too long ago. We spend a lot of time in Atlanta. My partner Ginny, is from there, and I'll be driving around Buckhead and one of the most noticeable things about certain areas of town are the houses are enormous on these giant plots of land, Like it's a lot of money that you just see kind of right out there, and as if I spend enough time driving around there, my brain starts going like, gosh, shouldn't I maybe I should have a house like that? Why don't I have enough money to have a house like that? And then at the same moment as I was thinking that, I turned my attention back to what I was listening to on the radio, and it was a band called the Gaslight Anthem. They're kind of a punk type band a little bit, and then it reminded me of what my ethos actually is, and I was just able to see right in that moment how easily I was getting turned away from my ethos to buy what I was surrounded by and what was attractive, and I needed help to be reminded of where my true values are. And I think that's kind of what you're speaking to here. And the problem is sometimes we don't get those reminders often enough, and so we just get more and more sucked into this idea of someone else's success.

Yeah, and it's so governed by the environment that you are in, the people that you're surrounded by. I will say anecdotally, my friends that live in New York City or Los Angeles struggle with this much more than my friends who live in a small town in the suburbs. It is very much like a cultural indoctrination. If you're surrounded by people who measure their worth in terms of how expensive their kids' school is, or how many weekends they get to spend in the Hamptons or what charter plane they're taking to X, Y or Z. It is very, very difficult to opt out of that game when you're surrounded by it. The environments that we operate and really do govern our reality. They really shape the way that we view the world. And so I have often said to people that your environment that you spend time in a two way feedback loop, because you shape your environments for sure, but your environments then in turn are shaping you. And you really want the environment that you operate in to be a reflection of your core values, because it will be very difficult for you if the to are intention.

Yeah, and it's so governed by the environment that you are in, the people that you're surrounded by. I will say anecdotally, my friends that live in New York City or Los Angeles struggle with this much more than my friends who live in a small town in the suburbs. It is very much like a cultural indoctrination. If you're surrounded by people who measure their worth in terms of how expensive their kids' school is, or how many weekends they get to spend in the Hamptons or what charter plane they're taking to X, Y or Z. It is very, very difficult to opt out of that game when you're surrounded by it. The environments that we operate and really do govern our reality. They really shape the way that we view the world. And so I have often said to people that your environment that you spend time in a two way feedback loop, because you shape your environments for sure, but your environments then in turn are shaping you. And you really want the environment that you operate in to be a reflection of your core values, because it will be very difficult for you if the to are intention.

Yeah, And I think a lot of people find themselves in this spot. I know a lot of our listeners certainly do, because I've just heard from enough of them, worked with enough of them over the years where they've achieved some degree of conventional success, at least in the way that like, they've got a home, they've got retirement savings, they've had children, and then somewhere in there, something wakes up in them and starts desiring more. And yet they're firmly embedded in this place that had these different values, rightfully, so they're very hesitant to be like, well, I'm just gonna blow my whole life up here, right because they may have, you know, a good family and a wonderful spouse, but they need something else. And I think that's why it can be so helpful to try and seek out, even in smaller doses, people who align with your values. It's so important in being able to stay the course with anything.

Yeah, And I think a lot of people find themselves in this spot. I know a lot of our listeners certainly do, because I've just heard from enough of them, worked with enough of them over the years where they've achieved some degree of conventional success, at least in the way that like, they've got a home, they've got retirement savings, they've had children, and then somewhere in there, something wakes up in them and starts desiring more. And yet they're firmly embedded in this place that had these different values, rightfully, so they're very hesitant to be like, well, I'm just gonna blow my whole life up here, right because they may have, you know, a good family and a wonderful spouse, but they need something else. And I think that's why it can be so helpful to try and seek out, even in smaller doses, people who align with your values. It's so important in being able to stay the course with anything.

I think, Yeah, I mean the people you surround yourself with fundamentally determine your outcomes. There is clear scientific evidence that the expectations of the people that you surround yourself with actually hermin whether you are kind of rising or falling to meet those expectations. The Pygmalion effect is the name of this psychological phenomenon whereby we rise to the level of the expectations that others have for us. So if you're surrounded by people who believe you are capable of more and sort of lift you up, you will actually rise to meet those expectations. But similarly, if you're surrounded by people who make you feel bad, who put you down, who tell you you don't have enough, or who show you that with their actions or their behaviors, you will fall to the level of those expectations in the way that you engage with the world. And it is fundamentally a call to action to be very very careful about the people that you allow into your energy, into your reality, because they really will have a profound impact on your happiness or misery in life.

I think, Yeah, I mean the people you surround yourself with fundamentally determine your outcomes. There is clear scientific evidence that the expectations of the people that you surround yourself with actually hermin whether you are kind of rising or falling to meet those expectations. The Pygmalion effect is the name of this psychological phenomenon whereby we rise to the level of the expectations that others have for us. So if you're surrounded by people who believe you are capable of more and sort of lift you up, you will actually rise to meet those expectations. But similarly, if you're surrounded by people who make you feel bad, who put you down, who tell you you don't have enough, or who show you that with their actions or their behaviors, you will fall to the level of those expectations in the way that you engage with the world. And it is fundamentally a call to action to be very very careful about the people that you allow into your energy, into your reality, because they really will have a profound impact on your happiness or misery in life.

Let's talk through that in a little bit more depth. I'm curious how you would think about this, because you clearly value family and loyalty to family to some degree. And so let's take my scenario where somebody is middle aged at this point and they find themselves surrounded by maybe their family and people that maybe do have lower expectations or don't support their values, and yet one of their core values is to be of support and love to the people that are around them. You know, how would you go about thinking about honoring those two values, One which says, hey, I do recognize that the people that I'm around affect my trajectory, and one of my values is I don't only see the people in my life that I love as an instrument for making me more successful.

Let's talk through that in a little bit more depth. I'm curious how you would think about this, because you clearly value family and loyalty to family to some degree. And so let's take my scenario where somebody is middle aged at this point and they find themselves surrounded by maybe their family and people that maybe do have lower expectations or don't support their values, and yet one of their core values is to be of support and love to the people that are around them. You know, how would you go about thinking about honoring those two values, One which says, hey, I do recognize that the people that I'm around affect my trajectory, and one of my values is I don't only see the people in my life that I love as an instrument for making me more successful.

Yeah. I think that there's a big difference between people who are sort of a neutral force in your life versus a truly net negative in your life. And at the end of the day, the person that you need to be most loyal to is yourself. Yeah. And I don't mean that in the sense that you just, you know, cast everyone else off and you're like, you know, fundamentally selfish. But you do need to protect yourself certain ways from people who consistently durrain you and pull you down. And the way that you do that does not have to be cutting people off. The most traditional way that people talk about this is like, oh, you know, if you have a family member that treats you poorly, you have to just cut them off. You never see them again. And that's easier said than done, and it's frankly unrealistic in a lot of cases. Like you know, I have family members who have not been a positive force in my life. Fortunately not direct blood relatives, but family members who I see it every holiday, or close family friends who are the same. And the way that I always advise people to manage that, which is the way that I have come to terms with it, is just because you are around someone physically does not mean you have to open up to them energetically or spiritually. If you believe in that, you can be closed off to someone. If you know that someone is a toxic force on your life, if you know that they happen to say things that are negative or they put you down in certain ways, you don't have to open up to allow them to put the knife in. And by the way, this is the reason that scientifically ambivalent relationships, relationships that are sometimes supportive and loving and sometimes demeaning, are actually more negative for your health, yes than purely toxic ones. This has been shown over and over again like that. You know, you put someone up on stage to give a talk if the audience is purely toxic versus if the audience is ambivalent, sometimes booing, sometimes cheering. The blood pressure spikes and stress levels of the speaker actually are worse when the audience is ambivalent because it opens you up when they're really nice, and so then the knife on the demeaning part really hurts the toxicity. And I think that with relationships and family members that really applies. We need to really monitor who and how they are impacting our energy in those ways so that we can create those level of boundaries that just allow us to continue in our own flow.

Yeah. I think that there's a big difference between people who are sort of a neutral force in your life versus a truly net negative in your life. And at the end of the day, the person that you need to be most loyal to is yourself. Yeah. And I don't mean that in the sense that you just, you know, cast everyone else off and you're like, you know, fundamentally selfish. But you do need to protect yourself certain ways from people who consistently durrain you and pull you down. And the way that you do that does not have to be cutting people off. The most traditional way that people talk about this is like, oh, you know, if you have a family member that treats you poorly, you have to just cut them off. You never see them again. And that's easier said than done, and it's frankly unrealistic in a lot of cases. Like you know, I have family members who have not been a positive force in my life. Fortunately not direct blood relatives, but family members who I see it every holiday, or close family friends who are the same. And the way that I always advise people to manage that, which is the way that I have come to terms with it, is just because you are around someone physically does not mean you have to open up to them energetically or spiritually. If you believe in that, you can be closed off to someone. If you know that someone is a toxic force on your life, if you know that they happen to say things that are negative or they put you down in certain ways, you don't have to open up to allow them to put the knife in. And by the way, this is the reason that scientifically ambivalent relationships, relationships that are sometimes supportive and loving and sometimes demeaning, are actually more negative for your health, yes than purely toxic ones. This has been shown over and over again like that. You know, you put someone up on stage to give a talk if the audience is purely toxic versus if the audience is ambivalent, sometimes booing, sometimes cheering. The blood pressure spikes and stress levels of the speaker actually are worse when the audience is ambivalent because it opens you up when they're really nice, and so then the knife on the demeaning part really hurts the toxicity. And I think that with relationships and family members that really applies. We need to really monitor who and how they are impacting our energy in those ways so that we can create those level of boundaries that just allow us to continue in our own flow.

Yeah, that's such a great point, and I agree ambivalent relationships like that are really difficult to sort out because sometimes they're good and you're like, okay, this is great, and then sometimes they're really bad and you're like, oh, got it. Maybe you know, if it was just always bad, it would be clear what to do. You'd be like, all right, you know, I really need to minimize my time with this person or you know, put them out of my life. And if it were only good, you wouldn't be having the struggle. I think that so many things in life we end up with ambivalence about, and that ambivalence is really challenging.

Yeah, that's such a great point, and I agree ambivalent relationships like that are really difficult to sort out because sometimes they're good and you're like, okay, this is great, and then sometimes they're really bad and you're like, oh, got it. Maybe you know, if it was just always bad, it would be clear what to do. You'd be like, all right, you know, I really need to minimize my time with this person or you know, put them out of my life. And if it were only good, you wouldn't be having the struggle. I think that so many things in life we end up with ambivalence about, and that ambivalence is really challenging.

Yeah, absolutely completely agree. I sort of ascribe to the wisdom that you should give everyone a second chance, but never a third, and I think that that is kind of a healthy way to approach these things when it comes to relationships, and when it comes to relationships that are sort of on the edge for you in your life. Life is too short to allow people into your energy that are truly a consistent negative force over and over again. The first time someone's that way, I personally default to empathy. I assume person's having a bad day. Even when I, like encounter a stranger and they do something that is sort of negative, like you know, treat you in a certain way, It's like something is going on in this person's life that caused them to act this way. Give someone a little bit of grace, But when it becomes a consistent pattern, it's no longer something that's just a one off.

Yeah, absolutely completely agree. I sort of ascribe to the wisdom that you should give everyone a second chance, but never a third, and I think that that is kind of a healthy way to approach these things when it comes to relationships, and when it comes to relationships that are sort of on the edge for you in your life. Life is too short to allow people into your energy that are truly a consistent negative force over and over again. The first time someone's that way, I personally default to empathy. I assume person's having a bad day. Even when I, like encounter a stranger and they do something that is sort of negative, like you know, treat you in a certain way, It's like something is going on in this person's life that caused them to act this way. Give someone a little bit of grace, But when it becomes a consistent pattern, it's no longer something that's just a one off.

So I want to get into the different types of wealth here in a second, but before I do, I'd love to talk about the life raiser. Tell me what the life raiser is.

So I want to get into the different types of wealth here in a second, but before I do, I'd love to talk about the life raiser. Tell me what the life raiser is.

So the life raiser is this concept of having a simple, single statement that is an identity defining rule for your life. A raizer, just as a term, is a sort of rule of thumb that allows you to simplify decision making. So a life raiser is a rule of thumb that allows you to simplify decision making across your entire life. The way that I articulated in the book is best brought to life through a story, which is Mark Randolph, the first CEO, the founder co founder of Netflix, has this thing that he has talked about and written about in the past that throughout his entire technology career he had a hard rule that on Tuesdays at five pm, he was leaving the office to go out on a date with his wife. And he talks about the fact that what he is most proud of from his entire career, which founded all these incredible companies, built these incredible things, is not that he achieved those amazing successes, but that he was able to do that while still remaining married to the same woman and having kids who, as far as he can tell, love to spend time with him. And I thought that it was such an interesting thing after I spoke to him in reflecting on it, because what I understood was that it didn't really have anything to do with any one date or the date in and of itself. It had everything to do with the identity that it established in his life that he was the type of person that never missed a five pm Tuesday dinner with his wife. It means something about how he shows up in the world, and it sends a clear signal ripples to everyone around him about the things that he holds most dear and about the way that he is going to show up in these different situations in his life. To all have our own version of that Tuesday five five pm dinner rule, some single identity defining statement for your own life that allows you to cut through the noise in the various situations that you encounter is very powerful. So on my desk, I have a little sheet of paper that says I will coach my son's sports teams. That is my life raiser. That is the idea that I am going to be the type of husband, type of father, type of community member, type of individual who is always going to put those things first, who is going to make sure that whatever decisions I have to make in life, they are not going to come into conflict with that ideal version of myself. How that version shows up in the world.

So the life raiser is this concept of having a simple, single statement that is an identity defining rule for your life. A raizer, just as a term, is a sort of rule of thumb that allows you to simplify decision making. So a life raiser is a rule of thumb that allows you to simplify decision making across your entire life. The way that I articulated in the book is best brought to life through a story, which is Mark Randolph, the first CEO, the founder co founder of Netflix, has this thing that he has talked about and written about in the past that throughout his entire technology career he had a hard rule that on Tuesdays at five pm, he was leaving the office to go out on a date with his wife. And he talks about the fact that what he is most proud of from his entire career, which founded all these incredible companies, built these incredible things, is not that he achieved those amazing successes, but that he was able to do that while still remaining married to the same woman and having kids who, as far as he can tell, love to spend time with him. And I thought that it was such an interesting thing after I spoke to him in reflecting on it, because what I understood was that it didn't really have anything to do with any one date or the date in and of itself. It had everything to do with the identity that it established in his life that he was the type of person that never missed a five pm Tuesday dinner with his wife. It means something about how he shows up in the world, and it sends a clear signal ripples to everyone around him about the things that he holds most dear and about the way that he is going to show up in these different situations in his life. To all have our own version of that Tuesday five five pm dinner rule, some single identity defining statement for your own life that allows you to cut through the noise in the various situations that you encounter is very powerful. So on my desk, I have a little sheet of paper that says I will coach my son's sports teams. That is my life raiser. That is the idea that I am going to be the type of husband, type of father, type of community member, type of individual who is always going to put those things first, who is going to make sure that whatever decisions I have to make in life, they are not going to come into conflict with that ideal version of myself. How that version shows up in the world.

This idea of a life razor, and I have one of my own. I want to dig a little deeper here, though, I'd love to see how you think about this. Right, Like you'll coach your son's sports teams. It's a good overall framing, But even with that clarity, you're going to be faced with lots of decisions about where time goes. Right, do I put it towards one of my professional pursuits? Do I put it towards my son's development? And you're not always going to choose your son's development, because if you take that to a extent, you could spend your entire life doing nothing but focusing on your child, which it would be fine. How do you think about applying that? Like the Netflix guy's rule was pretty straightforward, like I just have to make sure for an hour and a half on Tuesday I show up. There's a lot of latitude around that. How do you think about taking that I will coach my son's sports team and practically applying it as you go through your day.

This idea of a life razor, and I have one of my own. I want to dig a little deeper here, though, I'd love to see how you think about this. Right, Like you'll coach your son's sports teams. It's a good overall framing, But even with that clarity, you're going to be faced with lots of decisions about where time goes. Right, do I put it towards one of my professional pursuits? Do I put it towards my son's development? And you're not always going to choose your son's development, because if you take that to a extent, you could spend your entire life doing nothing but focusing on your child, which it would be fine. How do you think about applying that? Like the Netflix guy's rule was pretty straightforward, like I just have to make sure for an hour and a half on Tuesday I show up. There's a lot of latitude around that. How do you think about taking that I will coach my son's sports team and practically applying it as you go through your day.

To day life. To me, it is about the statement about the timeype of person you are. I mean, my son is two and a half, so he's not even on sports teams yet, so this is very much a wide.

To day life. To me, it is about the statement about the timeype of person you are. I mean, my son is two and a half, so he's not even on sports teams yet, so this is very much a wide.

Latitude statement for it already.

Latitude statement for it already.

No, no, and I'm far from that type of parent because my parents weren't like that with me. But this is about the type of person that I believe I am when I show up as my best self. Let's take an example. Someone comes to me and offers me a new business opportunity, and I'm looking at it and it's exciting. They're going to pay me a bunch of money, but it's going to require me to be on planes for one hundred days out of the year, going around and doing a bunch of things. I can look at this card and say, well, this seems exciting, but what does the type of person who coaches his son's sports teams do in these situations? Well, I probably can't be away that much and still be the type of person who will be there for my family in this way. So that means I might need to go back and adjust the opportunity. It doesn't mean I'm just going to blanket say no to it, but maybe I need to make adjustments to the construct of how it exists. Similarly, if someone comes and offers me a bunch of money, but it might jeopardize my integrity or morals the way that we're going to be making it, it's a hard no. I can immediately look at this and just say there's no way, because I cannot jeopardize my relationship with my son or wife because for me to coach that team, that's not just my choice. That's his choice that he wants to have me around. That's my wife's choice that she's proud to have me out in the community with other people. So I cannot take actions that wouldjeopardize that if I'm the type of person who does these things. So it's really important to understand the ripples that that one statement creates into other areas. And in Mark's example of the five pm Tuesday dinner, yes it's just this dinner, it also creates a ripple to all of his employees. Because his employees see the CEO of the company creating these boundaries and prioritizing his family and having a life outside of work, well, they're empowered to now do something similar it's not to say that, you know, if you're a junior person, you can do the exact same thing, but they can create something because they know that there's a core of value now and that makes them more loyal to the company, that makes them want to stick around and work together, and it creates you for everybody involved. So it's really those ripples that extend off that single statement that become very interesting.

No, no, and I'm far from that type of parent because my parents weren't like that with me. But this is about the type of person that I believe I am when I show up as my best self. Let's take an example. Someone comes to me and offers me a new business opportunity, and I'm looking at it and it's exciting. They're going to pay me a bunch of money, but it's going to require me to be on planes for one hundred days out of the year, going around and doing a bunch of things. I can look at this card and say, well, this seems exciting, but what does the type of person who coaches his son's sports teams do in these situations? Well, I probably can't be away that much and still be the type of person who will be there for my family in this way. So that means I might need to go back and adjust the opportunity. It doesn't mean I'm just going to blanket say no to it, but maybe I need to make adjustments to the construct of how it exists. Similarly, if someone comes and offers me a bunch of money, but it might jeopardize my integrity or morals the way that we're going to be making it, it's a hard no. I can immediately look at this and just say there's no way, because I cannot jeopardize my relationship with my son or wife because for me to coach that team, that's not just my choice. That's his choice that he wants to have me around. That's my wife's choice that she's proud to have me out in the community with other people. So I cannot take actions that wouldjeopardize that if I'm the type of person who does these things. So it's really important to understand the ripples that that one statement creates into other areas. And in Mark's example of the five pm Tuesday dinner, yes it's just this dinner, it also creates a ripple to all of his employees. Because his employees see the CEO of the company creating these boundaries and prioritizing his family and having a life outside of work, well, they're empowered to now do something similar it's not to say that, you know, if you're a junior person, you can do the exact same thing, but they can create something because they know that there's a core of value now and that makes them more loyal to the company, that makes them want to stick around and work together, and it creates you for everybody involved. So it's really those ripples that extend off that single statement that become very interesting.

Yeah. I love that idea. That is really good, And I also love the idea of having a statement because life happens fast and it gets confusing, and having something that's that always at hand can be so valuable. Mine is just that I try and leave every situation, whether that a person a place better than I found it, Like, that's just kind of my life. Raiser just sort of orients me in general. Doesn't solve every decision making quandary I come up with, but it does point me in a direction, and it's simple enough that it consistently can be useful.

Yeah. I love that idea. That is really good, And I also love the idea of having a statement because life happens fast and it gets confusing, and having something that's that always at hand can be so valuable. Mine is just that I try and leave every situation, whether that a person a place better than I found it, Like, that's just kind of my life. Raiser just sort of orients me in general. Doesn't solve every decision making quandary I come up with, but it does point me in a direction, and it's simple enough that it consistently can be useful.

I love that one. That's a very very good one. Yeah, there's several examples in the book that I go through from people in sort of different walks of life, and that's a really important piece to this idea of the life raiser too, to recognize that your life raiser will change across the different seasons of your life. My son is young man, Wow, this is clearly a key focus. When he goes to college or when our children are no longer in the house, it obviously doesn't serve in quite the same way. So recognizing and assessing sort of pressure testing whether the life raiser that you have is still one that suits the stage that you're in in life is also just a healthy kind of natural process, over and over again.

I love that one. That's a very very good one. Yeah, there's several examples in the book that I go through from people in sort of different walks of life, and that's a really important piece to this idea of the life raiser too, to recognize that your life raiser will change across the different seasons of your life. My son is young man, Wow, this is clearly a key focus. When he goes to college or when our children are no longer in the house, it obviously doesn't serve in quite the same way. So recognizing and assessing sort of pressure testing whether the life raiser that you have is still one that suits the stage that you're in in life is also just a healthy kind of natural process, over and over again.

Before we dive back into the conversation, let me ask you something. What's one thing that has been holding you back lately? You know that it's there, You've tried to push past it, but somehow it keeps getting in the way. You're not alone in this, and I've identified six major saboteurs of self control, things like autopilot behavior, self doubt, emotional escapism that quietly derail our best intentions. But here's the good news. You can outsmart them. And I've put together a free guide to help you spot these hidden obstacles and give you simple, actionable strategies that you can use to regain control. Download the free guide now at oneufeed dot net slash ebook and take the first step towards getting back on track. My son is now twenty six, so you know, if he was your son's age, I might have a very different focus. The stage of life I'm in in the stage of life you're in, are very different.

Before we dive back into the conversation, let me ask you something. What's one thing that has been holding you back lately? You know that it's there, You've tried to push past it, but somehow it keeps getting in the way. You're not alone in this, and I've identified six major saboteurs of self control, things like autopilot behavior, self doubt, emotional escapism that quietly derail our best intentions. But here's the good news. You can outsmart them. And I've put together a free guide to help you spot these hidden obstacles and give you simple, actionable strategies that you can use to regain control. Download the free guide now at oneufeed dot net slash ebook and take the first step towards getting back on track. My son is now twenty six, so you know, if he was your son's age, I might have a very different focus. The stage of life I'm in in the stage of life you're in, are very different.

Yeah. I think that's exactly right.

Yeah. I think that's exactly right.

So we just alluded a little bit to stages of life and how you spend your time in different stages of the life might be different. So let's move on to the first type of wealth that you talk about, which is time wealth. And my favorite part from this is just this very simple question, would you trade lives with Warren Buffett? Talk to me about that question, because that is such a great and illuminating question.

So we just alluded a little bit to stages of life and how you spend your time in different stages of the life might be different. So let's move on to the first type of wealth that you talk about, which is time wealth. And my favorite part from this is just this very simple question, would you trade lives with Warren Buffett? Talk to me about that question, because that is such a great and illuminating question.

I love asking young people this question. Yeah, it is such a simple articulation of a very important point, which is that time is your most precious asset. If I ask a young person, would you trade lives with Warren Buffett, it's a hard charging young person just starting their career, and I tell them he's worth one hundred and thirty billion dollars. He flies around on a Boeing business jet. He has access to anyone in the world. He basically reads and learns for a living. Sounds pretty good, but you would never trade lives with him for one simple reason. He is ninety five years old. There's no way that you should agree to trade the amount of time that he has left for all the money in the world. And on the flip side, he would do anything to be twenty two again, he would give up every single dollar that he has to be twenty two and to have the amount of time that you have. So in that articulation, what you're recognizing is that your time has quite literally incalculable value, incalculable value, and yet on a daily basis, are you really wasting it? I mean, we're spending all this time scrolling on our phones, comparing ourselves to other people, stressing about the past, anxiety about the future, all of these things that are fundamentally disrespecting this one most precious asset that we have, the one asset that we can never get back once it's gone.

I love asking young people this question. Yeah, it is such a simple articulation of a very important point, which is that time is your most precious asset. If I ask a young person, would you trade lives with Warren Buffett, it's a hard charging young person just starting their career, and I tell them he's worth one hundred and thirty billion dollars. He flies around on a Boeing business jet. He has access to anyone in the world. He basically reads and learns for a living. Sounds pretty good, but you would never trade lives with him for one simple reason. He is ninety five years old. There's no way that you should agree to trade the amount of time that he has left for all the money in the world. And on the flip side, he would do anything to be twenty two again, he would give up every single dollar that he has to be twenty two and to have the amount of time that you have. So in that articulation, what you're recognizing is that your time has quite literally incalculable value, incalculable value, and yet on a daily basis, are you really wasting it? I mean, we're spending all this time scrolling on our phones, comparing ourselves to other people, stressing about the past, anxiety about the future, all of these things that are fundamentally disrespecting this one most precious asset that we have, the one asset that we can never get back once it's gone.

I love that question too, because you first hear it and you think, well, of course I would, until you get to the ninety seven. You know, he's ninety seven years old piece, and I think then it kind of wakes you up to this idea. And as you were talking, I was thinking a little bit about you know, we talk about spending time. If we really applied that idea of spending time the way we did money, There's a lot of ways I spend my time that I would not spend money on. It's really interesting to think about, like, I do this thing, but would I pay to do that thing? Of course I wouldn't.

I love that question too, because you first hear it and you think, well, of course I would, until you get to the ninety seven. You know, he's ninety seven years old piece, and I think then it kind of wakes you up to this idea. And as you were talking, I was thinking a little bit about you know, we talk about spending time. If we really applied that idea of spending time the way we did money, There's a lot of ways I spend my time that I would not spend money on. It's really interesting to think about, like, I do this thing, but would I pay to do that thing? Of course I wouldn't.

That's a really interesting way of thinking about it. I've actually never articulated it that way in my mind, but it is an important framing. It is just really interesting what changes you start to make when you recognize that time is really the thing that you have, and that all of these moments, these windows of time are actually in a little bit more of your control than you think. That is a really important and peace is to just recognize that you can actually create time for the things or with the people that you really care about in your life. You can make decisions, you can take actions that actually create more of these moments with the people that you want to spend time with, or for the things that you really enjoy, for the experiences that you really want to have. You can take actions that fundamentally create time in that sense, and once you realize that, you start living differently in a lot of ways. But it all comes from that awareness of the fact that time is the really precious asset, not the money, right.

That's a really interesting way of thinking about it. I've actually never articulated it that way in my mind, but it is an important framing. It is just really interesting what changes you start to make when you recognize that time is really the thing that you have, and that all of these moments, these windows of time are actually in a little bit more of your control than you think. That is a really important and peace is to just recognize that you can actually create time for the things or with the people that you really care about in your life. You can make decisions, you can take actions that actually create more of these moments with the people that you want to spend time with, or for the things that you really enjoy, for the experiences that you really want to have. You can take actions that fundamentally create time in that sense, and once you realize that, you start living differently in a lot of ways. But it all comes from that awareness of the fact that time is the really precious asset, not the money, right.

And I think there's a second level to this. The first level is being intentional about where I put my time. I think the second level is being intentional about what I bring to the things I'm doing. And this gets back to where we started. You said, you know, certain things that we used to pray for we now see as a burden.

And I think there's a second level to this. The first level is being intentional about where I put my time. I think the second level is being intentional about what I bring to the things I'm doing. And this gets back to where we started. You said, you know, certain things that we used to pray for we now see as a burden.

Right.

Right.

It can be easy when you're trapped in the just the word I use there describes the mind state that we're in, even though I don't believe it. That word in this way with your two year old for four hours, and it can begin to feel overwhelming. So your time is in the right place, But what you're bringing to that time is also an important part of what makes that time valuable or non valuable.

It can be easy when you're trapped in the just the word I use there describes the mind state that we're in, even though I don't believe it. That word in this way with your two year old for four hours, and it can begin to feel overwhelming. So your time is in the right place, But what you're bringing to that time is also an important part of what makes that time valuable or non valuable.

I think what you're hitting on is a really important concept, which is that your ability to direct your attention and energy into the moments or windows of time that really matter is where you achieve the greatest successes and outcomes in life. There are these particular windows of time during which certain people are, certain opportunities present themselves, and they are weightier, they are more textured than others. The ancient Greeks actually had two different words for time. They had chronos, which was the idea of chronological kind of linear, quantitative time, and then they had chiros, which was the idea that not all time is created equal, that there are certain moments or windows that have more texture, that have more meaning or more importance, and your ability to direct attention or energy into those is actually amplified in terms of the outcomes that you can create. So those moments with certain people that are really important, those business opportunities that are time sensitive, that if you just lean into and really sprint at, you can generate these incredible outcomes for your life. It's sort of like the Lionel Messi version of playing soccer, where he walks around the field the entire game, and then he sprints in the exact right moment to achieve the incredible outcome that he's going for. It's taking the approach that to life, rather than the consistent jog, finding those moments of time and deploying your attention and energy into them.

I think what you're hitting on is a really important concept, which is that your ability to direct your attention and energy into the moments or windows of time that really matter is where you achieve the greatest successes and outcomes in life. There are these particular windows of time during which certain people are, certain opportunities present themselves, and they are weightier, they are more textured than others. The ancient Greeks actually had two different words for time. They had chronos, which was the idea of chronological kind of linear, quantitative time, and then they had chiros, which was the idea that not all time is created equal, that there are certain moments or windows that have more texture, that have more meaning or more importance, and your ability to direct attention or energy into those is actually amplified in terms of the outcomes that you can create. So those moments with certain people that are really important, those business opportunities that are time sensitive, that if you just lean into and really sprint at, you can generate these incredible outcomes for your life. It's sort of like the Lionel Messi version of playing soccer, where he walks around the field the entire game, and then he sprints in the exact right moment to achieve the incredible outcome that he's going for. It's taking the approach that to life, rather than the consistent jog, finding those moments of time and deploying your attention and energy into them.

I want to do a thought experiment here with you, which is the business stuff I totally get right, Like, this is the time you go hard. If we're talking about time with family, Let's say you know, you recognize that the first ten years of your son's life you call him I think the magic years. I've always said the glory years of parenting are like five to eleven. But you're right, the first ten years are so critical. You can't just pick a couple of moments to sprint there, right, because that would be the equivalent of what you know people call the Disneyland dad. Right, you drop in and you take your kid to Disneyland, and you create these great moments. But day to day, your wife is doing kind of.

I want to do a thought experiment here with you, which is the business stuff I totally get right, Like, this is the time you go hard. If we're talking about time with family, Let's say you know, you recognize that the first ten years of your son's life you call him I think the magic years. I've always said the glory years of parenting are like five to eleven. But you're right, the first ten years are so critical. You can't just pick a couple of moments to sprint there, right, because that would be the equivalent of what you know people call the Disneyland dad. Right, you drop in and you take your kid to Disneyland, and you create these great moments. But day to day, your wife is doing kind of.

All of the work.

All of the work.

And one of the things that I found is that sometimes training my attention in non important moments to be prepared for the important moments is valuable. I mean, I think in many ways this is what meditation is. Meditation I think is training your attention in a moment that theoretically isn't that important, right because you're just sitting there with the goal. At least my goal is the ability to actually really inhabit the important moments.

And one of the things that I found is that sometimes training my attention in non important moments to be prepared for the important moments is valuable. I mean, I think in many ways this is what meditation is. Meditation I think is training your attention in a moment that theoretically isn't that important, right because you're just sitting there with the goal. At least my goal is the ability to actually really inhabit the important moments.

I love that articulation training your attention in the unimportant moments for the important moments. It's not dissimilar from my articulation of the reason we do hard things. You know. I am an avid cold plunger, way past the point where it's no longer trendy like it once was. And the reason I believe in doing that is because I fundamentally believe that when you take on voluntary struggle, you are more well equipped for the involuntary struggle that inevitably comes into your life. And you're sort of articulating the same thing when it comes to these moments, which I love. I do tend to think of life more on a season basis than on a day's basis, and I think that balance as a concept, attention as a concept is actually more well thought of on a kind of waves versus specific tiny moments like the Disneyland trip, because that is a really helpful framing at least for me, that has provided a lot of comfort, and it's provided a lot of security and how we think about our sun and this journey. I mean, like just to be fully transparent. The last three four months, I've been in a season of unbalanced, like truly sprinting to put these ideas out into the world that I care deeply about that I think are going to impact a lot of people, and being able to do that without stress and anxiety, knowing that it is in service of a season of balance to come. Yes, that my wife and I are going to be able to zoom out and spend tons of time together with our sun present moments energy there because of the fact that I sprinted and really leaned into this thing and was able to create that. That is a really important reframing of these things because what it tells you is that you don't have to stress over a lack of balance in the days as long as you understand on the zoomed out view that you're working towards the balance in the seasons.

I love that articulation training your attention in the unimportant moments for the important moments. It's not dissimilar from my articulation of the reason we do hard things. You know. I am an avid cold plunger, way past the point where it's no longer trendy like it once was. And the reason I believe in doing that is because I fundamentally believe that when you take on voluntary struggle, you are more well equipped for the involuntary struggle that inevitably comes into your life. And you're sort of articulating the same thing when it comes to these moments, which I love. I do tend to think of life more on a season basis than on a day's basis, and I think that balance as a concept, attention as a concept is actually more well thought of on a kind of waves versus specific tiny moments like the Disneyland trip, because that is a really helpful framing at least for me, that has provided a lot of comfort, and it's provided a lot of security and how we think about our sun and this journey. I mean, like just to be fully transparent. The last three four months, I've been in a season of unbalanced, like truly sprinting to put these ideas out into the world that I care deeply about that I think are going to impact a lot of people, and being able to do that without stress and anxiety, knowing that it is in service of a season of balance to come. Yes, that my wife and I are going to be able to zoom out and spend tons of time together with our sun present moments energy there because of the fact that I sprinted and really leaned into this thing and was able to create that. That is a really important reframing of these things because what it tells you is that you don't have to stress over a lack of balance in the days as long as you understand on the zoomed out view that you're working towards the balance in the seasons.

I agree one hundred percent with that idea because people talk about work life balance, and I think when you look at it in short chunks, you might see that it's really out of balance. If you're looking at a day or a week, you know, if your kid is sick, that week may be way more child than work because you're home and you know you're taking days off to take care of the child and you suddenly work is out of balance. But I think the trick comes like, I think you've been real intentional about Okay, once I get through this time, which is a book launch, right, A book launch demands a ton out of someone. Once I get on the other side of that, I'm going to be very intentional about how I'm rebalancing this. I think the problem that a lot of people fall into, and I did this, I think for a number of years was I kept believing that just on the other side of this project, I was in the software world. Once we get this release out, then I'm going to dial it back. And the reality was, particularly if someone else is said in your priorities like the gas pedals all the way down all the time. And so I think in those situations it did become more important to recognize, like, okay, I have to watch a little bit closer that I don't get stuck in the belief that, Okay, I'll balance this out later and the next thing you know, three years have gone by.

I agree one hundred percent with that idea because people talk about work life balance, and I think when you look at it in short chunks, you might see that it's really out of balance. If you're looking at a day or a week, you know, if your kid is sick, that week may be way more child than work because you're home and you know you're taking days off to take care of the child and you suddenly work is out of balance. But I think the trick comes like, I think you've been real intentional about Okay, once I get through this time, which is a book launch, right, A book launch demands a ton out of someone. Once I get on the other side of that, I'm going to be very intentional about how I'm rebalancing this. I think the problem that a lot of people fall into, and I did this, I think for a number of years was I kept believing that just on the other side of this project, I was in the software world. Once we get this release out, then I'm going to dial it back. And the reality was, particularly if someone else is said in your priorities like the gas pedals all the way down all the time. And so I think in those situations it did become more important to recognize, like, okay, I have to watch a little bit closer that I don't get stuck in the belief that, Okay, I'll balance this out later and the next thing you know, three years have gone by.

Later is the most dangerous word in the dictionary. We say I'll spend more time with my kids later, I'll spend more time with my partner or my friends later. I'll invest in my health later. I'll find my freedom and purpose later. And the sad thing is that later just becomes another word for never, because those things are not going to exist in the same way later. Your kids are not going to be five years old later. Your partner, your friends won't be there for you later if you're not there for them now. Your health won't be there for you later if you don't invest in it now. You won't magically wake up with freedom and purpose later if you don't build those things now. And so the idea is that you have to design these things into your life in some tiny way today. It doesn't have to be dramatic. We know that life has seasons and you're not going to be able to massively focus on all of these things at all points in time, but they need to be designed in in some tiny way on a daily basis, otherwise you'll just end up regretting it later.