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Welcome to the Middle.

Welcome to the Middle.

I'm Jeremy Hobson and after a week that seemed like a year off, Tolliver, you are back.

I'm Jeremy Hobson and after a week that seemed like a year off, Tolliver, you are back.

To this j I'm back and I'm feeling better than ever. Man got well And by the way, this is a good time for us to remind our listeners that we call you our house DJ.

To this j I'm back and I'm feeling better than ever. Man got well And by the way, this is a good time for us to remind our listeners that we call you our house DJ.

But if you're listening on the podcast, you don't get to hear any of Tolliver's music because we don't have the rights. I'm just the guy exactly. They're like, what does he do so Tolliver? It has now been more than a month since the election. We are still a little more than a month away from inauguration day and Democrats are still trying to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it. They lost ground with a number of demographics. But we're going to talk about a big one today that you really need to win in order to win the presidency, and that would be the working class. That could be people without a college degree, people who work in more industrial jobs, or people who simply don't make enough money to be considered middle class. It is a lot of people, more than half of the voters in the election this year, and Trump won them fifty four to forty four percent according to exit polls. So our question this hour what do Democrats need to do to better appeal to the working class. We'll get to your calls in a moment at eight four four four middle that is eight four four four six four three three five three. But first, last week we talked about America's loneliness epidemic and what we can do to solve it. We got a lot of great calls. Here are some of the comments that came into our voicemail after the show.

But if you're listening on the podcast, you don't get to hear any of Tolliver's music because we don't have the rights. I'm just the guy exactly. They're like, what does he do so Tolliver? It has now been more than a month since the election. We are still a little more than a month away from inauguration day and Democrats are still trying to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it. They lost ground with a number of demographics. But we're going to talk about a big one today that you really need to win in order to win the presidency, and that would be the working class. That could be people without a college degree, people who work in more industrial jobs, or people who simply don't make enough money to be considered middle class. It is a lot of people, more than half of the voters in the election this year, and Trump won them fifty four to forty four percent according to exit polls. So our question this hour what do Democrats need to do to better appeal to the working class. We'll get to your calls in a moment at eight four four four middle that is eight four four four six four three three five three. But first, last week we talked about America's loneliness epidemic and what we can do to solve it. We got a lot of great calls. Here are some of the comments that came into our voicemail after the show.

My name is Nathan Nelson. I live in Cleveland. I live in a neighborhood that is really based in community. There's even two separate organizations in our neighborhood that are focused on social health. People reach out to us, and when we moved here last year, it was an incredible experience and it's something I've wondered if there's nationwide programs for breading it because the programs here in our community in Clevelands are just incredible.

My name is Nathan Nelson. I live in Cleveland. I live in a neighborhood that is really based in community. There's even two separate organizations in our neighborhood that are focused on social health. People reach out to us, and when we moved here last year, it was an incredible experience and it's something I've wondered if there's nationwide programs for breading it because the programs here in our community in Clevelands are just incredible.

Hey, Jeremy, this is Brett Burdon's loneliness, and I think the key to it is nobody owns houses anymore. I live in California. Everybody rent, Everybody is moving because of rent, and because of not being able to have the ownership, the communities itself have fallen apart.

Hey, Jeremy, this is Brett Burdon's loneliness, and I think the key to it is nobody owns houses anymore. I live in California. Everybody rent, Everybody is moving because of rent, and because of not being able to have the ownership, the communities itself have fallen apart.

This is Joshua Tim calling from Phoenix, Arizona. One thing that's helped me since I've become an adult really put myself in situations to see people consistently, Like recently, I just did a comedy club and I think just having something like that where we're seeing the same people weekend and week out is important. That consistency and showing up.

This is Joshua Tim calling from Phoenix, Arizona. One thing that's helped me since I've become an adult really put myself in situations to see people consistently, Like recently, I just did a comedy club and I think just having something like that where we're seeing the same people weekend and week out is important. That consistency and showing up.

Well.

Well.

Thanks to everyone who called in, and you can hear that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, on the iHeart app.

Thanks to everyone who called in, and you can hear that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, on the iHeart app.

Or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Or wherever you listen to podcasts.

So now to our topic this hour, what can democrats do to better appeal to the working class?

So now to our topic this hour, what can democrats do to better appeal to the working class?

Tolliver, what is the number to call it?

Tolliver, what is the number to call it?

It's eight four four four Middle, that's eight four four four sixty four three three five three, or you can write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.

It's eight four four four Middle, that's eight four four four sixty four three three five three, or you can write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.

Let's meet our panel. Joining us Jane Kleb, Nebraska's Democratic Party Chair. Her book is called Harvest the Vote, How Democrats can win again in rural America.

Let's meet our panel. Joining us Jane Kleb, Nebraska's Democratic Party Chair. Her book is called Harvest the Vote, How Democrats can win again in rural America.

Jane, Welcome to the Middle.

Jane, Welcome to the Middle.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And one thing Democrats can do is get better music like Tolliver has.

And one thing Democrats can do is get better music like Tolliver has.

Everybody needs a Tolliver Really the checks in the mail, Thank you so much.

Everybody needs a Tolliver Really the checks in the mail, Thank you so much.

Also joining us Sarah smartsh journalist and author of the new book Bone of the Bone, Essays on America by a daughter of the working class.

Also joining us Sarah smartsh journalist and author of the new book Bone of the Bone, Essays on America by a daughter of the working class.

Sarah. Great to have you back on the Middle.

Sarah. Great to have you back on the Middle.

Good to see you again, Jeremy.

Good to see you again, Jeremy.

And before we get to the funds, let me ask each of you what is your analysis? Why are Democrats losing ground and Republicans gaining ground with working class Americans.

And before we get to the funds, let me ask each of you what is your analysis? Why are Democrats losing ground and Republicans gaining ground with working class Americans.

I'll start with you, Jane.

I'll start with you, Jane.

We spend so much time as Democrats in our heads rather than talking about from our hearts and in our gut, and Trump and the Republicans do a very good job of just cutting through the noise and getting to issues that directly impact people's pocketbooks. And I often use climate as an example. As Democrats, we talk about cet as numbers and.

We spend so much time as Democrats in our heads rather than talking about from our hearts and in our gut, and Trump and the Republicans do a very good job of just cutting through the noise and getting to issues that directly impact people's pocketbooks. And I often use climate as an example. As Democrats, we talk about cet as numbers and.

Parish treaty accords and.

Parish treaty accords and.

Build back better and the IRA and all these appens, rather than talking about let's protect people's land and water and protect their property rights from you know, the risky fossil fuel pipelines that are going to cross through their land. But instead we talk about all this stuff up here, rather than getting to folks gout in their feelings.

Build back better and the IRA and all these appens, rather than talking about let's protect people's land and water and protect their property rights from you know, the risky fossil fuel pipelines that are going to cross through their land. But instead we talk about all this stuff up here, rather than getting to folks gout in their feelings.

Sarah s Marsh, what do you think, well.

Sarah s Marsh, what do you think, well.

Jeremy, I think that the premise of this episode of your show contains the word that's really at the center of the conundrum, which is class. I've been writing about socioeconomic class as an underdiscussed aspect of the American identity for almost twenty years, and you know, both parties grapple with and struggle with that concept in different ways. I would argue that maybe the right has weaponized that aspect of identity to great effect, whereas the Democrats largely have failed to even reckon with that shared experience among struggling Americans. That cuts across a lot of other identity markers that we are often considering when we talk about things like diversity and equity and inclusion that are important to most folks of a liberal persuasion. So, you know, I think the conversation is sort of nascent in some ways on the Democratic side of the aisle, and they're gonna have some catching.

Jeremy, I think that the premise of this episode of your show contains the word that's really at the center of the conundrum, which is class. I've been writing about socioeconomic class as an underdiscussed aspect of the American identity for almost twenty years, and you know, both parties grapple with and struggle with that concept in different ways. I would argue that maybe the right has weaponized that aspect of identity to great effect, whereas the Democrats largely have failed to even reckon with that shared experience among struggling Americans. That cuts across a lot of other identity markers that we are often considering when we talk about things like diversity and equity and inclusion that are important to most folks of a liberal persuasion. So, you know, I think the conversation is sort of nascent in some ways on the Democratic side of the aisle, and they're gonna have some catching.

Up to do.

Up to do.

Jane, what do you think about that. You're the chair of the Democratic Party of Nebraska.

Jane, what do you think about that. You're the chair of the Democratic Party of Nebraska.

Yeah, so, you know, it's frustrating, I think as Democratic leaders, because we know that our party has always stood with working class and our policies impact working class folks, but that message in the brand of the Democrats is obviously not getting to people. I also think it's a problem that we as a party haven't really come up with any big ideas that will impact people's pocketbooks since FDR. So we're talking a lot about that as Democratic leaders right now.

Yeah, so, you know, it's frustrating, I think as Democratic leaders, because we know that our party has always stood with working class and our policies impact working class folks, but that message in the brand of the Democrats is obviously not getting to people. I also think it's a problem that we as a party haven't really come up with any big ideas that will impact people's pocketbooks since FDR. So we're talking a lot about that as Democratic leaders right now.

You know.

You know.

Is it something like do we start running on expanding public location from pre k all the way through community college? You know, obviously two years of not having to pay daycare, which is extremely expensive for working families, and then getting young people through community college so they can do a trade nursing. So I think these are the things that we have to do, you know. But I do think that there were you know, Sarah's that the Republicans have weaponized class. They've been very good about wedging then cultural issues and feelings of like your episode last week of loneliness, there's a lot of working class folks who do feel lonely, who do feel left behind, and that cuts different racial backgrounds.

Is it something like do we start running on expanding public location from pre k all the way through community college? You know, obviously two years of not having to pay daycare, which is extremely expensive for working families, and then getting young people through community college so they can do a trade nursing. So I think these are the things that we have to do, you know. But I do think that there were you know, Sarah's that the Republicans have weaponized class. They've been very good about wedging then cultural issues and feelings of like your episode last week of loneliness, there's a lot of working class folks who do feel lonely, who do feel left behind, and that cuts different racial backgrounds.

I also think that sorry cut in here, that Democrats could just do a better job of tooting their own horn a little bit, because, for what I understand, the economic numbers were pretty good heading into this election, but everybody thought, you know, the Democrats were very bad on the elect or sorry, on the economy.

I also think that sorry cut in here, that Democrats could just do a better job of tooting their own horn a little bit, because, for what I understand, the economic numbers were pretty good heading into this election, but everybody thought, you know, the Democrats were very bad on the elect or sorry, on the economy.

Well, we'll get to some of the messaging issues Tolliver that you bring up there. But Sarah, before we go to the funds, I want to ask you one more thing, because, according to the Brookings Institution, in the working class, there are now far more workers in healthcare and retail than there are in manufacturing, and far more in food service than in construction.

Well, we'll get to some of the messaging issues Tolliver that you bring up there. But Sarah, before we go to the funds, I want to ask you one more thing, because, according to the Brookings Institution, in the working class, there are now far more workers in healthcare and retail than there are in manufacturing, and far more in food service than in construction.

Many are women, many are not unionized.

Many are women, many are not unionized.

Is as we think about the twenty twenty four working class, it may not be the working class that sort of comes to mind when you just put those two words together.

Is as we think about the twenty twenty four working class, it may not be the working class that sort of comes to mind when you just put those two words together.

Yeah, it's surely it includes the white guy in a hard hat or the white guy going down into a coal mine. But that ain't it. That ain't even most of it anymore. And so these sorts of complexities, we can't unravel the sort of stereotype of the working class until we even have a shared language to be discussing it. One thing I come across is when I bring a critique about, well, the Democrats didn't talk enough about the working class, and then someone will literally respond to me by saying, they talked about the middle class all the time. They're not here in the different they're literally here. There is a difference, there is a demarcation line. And if we're that clunky with our language still in you know, kind of reckoning with historic wealth inequality and what that means about our class structure, then the sort of nuance that you're talking about, Jeremy, where you know, getting into all the beautiful diverse and many diversity identities that exist within the working class is going to be a struggle.

Yeah, it's surely it includes the white guy in a hard hat or the white guy going down into a coal mine. But that ain't it. That ain't even most of it anymore. And so these sorts of complexities, we can't unravel the sort of stereotype of the working class until we even have a shared language to be discussing it. One thing I come across is when I bring a critique about, well, the Democrats didn't talk enough about the working class, and then someone will literally respond to me by saying, they talked about the middle class all the time. They're not here in the different they're literally here. There is a difference, there is a demarcation line. And if we're that clunky with our language still in you know, kind of reckoning with historic wealth inequality and what that means about our class structure, then the sort of nuance that you're talking about, Jeremy, where you know, getting into all the beautiful diverse and many diversity identities that exist within the working class is going to be a struggle.

Let me go to Ron, who's calling from Arlington Heights, Illinois. Ron, welcome to the middle Go ahead, what do you think the Democrats should do to better appeal to the working class?

Let me go to Ron, who's calling from Arlington Heights, Illinois. Ron, welcome to the middle Go ahead, what do you think the Democrats should do to better appeal to the working class?

Well, as I was saying, I think that the party has strayed a little bit from its base, and I think a lot of people perceive it as being too liberal. Now, I was born in a blue craant class family. My father was a butcher, and the Butcher Union, their whole subdivision was democratic, and you know, those are the values that instilled in me. But as I've gotten older, I have voted for Republicans occasionally. But I'm sixty six now it's gotten so divisive that, as I was saying, when I read some of these comments on the political articles, you're either maga or you're woke, and it seems like there's no common ground. And I don't feel that i'm either. But I think the perception is that the Democrats are focusing on some issues that are just too far to the left, that aren't affecting the common man. And I think Joe Biden did a lot for the working class. And I don't know why it's not being perceived that way, but yeah, I don't know. I don't have an answer.

Well, as I was saying, I think that the party has strayed a little bit from its base, and I think a lot of people perceive it as being too liberal. Now, I was born in a blue craant class family. My father was a butcher, and the Butcher Union, their whole subdivision was democratic, and you know, those are the values that instilled in me. But as I've gotten older, I have voted for Republicans occasionally. But I'm sixty six now it's gotten so divisive that, as I was saying, when I read some of these comments on the political articles, you're either maga or you're woke, and it seems like there's no common ground. And I don't feel that i'm either. But I think the perception is that the Democrats are focusing on some issues that are just too far to the left, that aren't affecting the common man. And I think Joe Biden did a lot for the working class. And I don't know why it's not being perceived that way, but yeah, I don't know. I don't have an answer.

Yeah, no, but we take your point. Ron, it's a good point. Let me let me take it to our guest, Jane. What do you think about that. I mean it sort of gets to what we've been talking about that maybe they are these bigger issues, but people aren't. The Democrats aren't talking enough about those kitchen table economic issues.

Yeah, no, but we take your point. Ron, it's a good point. Let me let me take it to our guest, Jane. What do you think about that. I mean it sort of gets to what we've been talking about that maybe they are these bigger issues, but people aren't. The Democrats aren't talking enough about those kitchen table economic issues.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think one of the other problems that we have is the Republicans have gotten so good at micro targeting these media bubbles and information bubbles that a lot of us are in now. So it's no longer your town paper and kind of CNN and MSNBC. You know, it's different podcasts, it's different radio shows, it's different blogs, it's Reddit. And the Republicans, I think, have done a good job of villainizing Democrats. Right, So all of the mail that went out against Democratic candidates in Nebraska for state ledge and further down ballot was really focused on the trans issue, and they basically said, you know, John Cavanaugh is for they them, not you, And that cuts to I think, you know, people's heart and guts and feeling like Democrats are leaving them behind. And Democrats aren't necessarily only focusing on trans and abortion and some of these other cultural issues, but we're not running away from them because we feel like it's a need for us to defend in those you know, obviously critical people's lives, but Republicans do a good job of then wedging us, so then we don't get to talk about Talliver.

And I think one of the other problems that we have is the Republicans have gotten so good at micro targeting these media bubbles and information bubbles that a lot of us are in now. So it's no longer your town paper and kind of CNN and MSNBC. You know, it's different podcasts, it's different radio shows, it's different blogs, it's Reddit. And the Republicans, I think, have done a good job of villainizing Democrats. Right, So all of the mail that went out against Democratic candidates in Nebraska for state ledge and further down ballot was really focused on the trans issue, and they basically said, you know, John Cavanaugh is for they them, not you, And that cuts to I think, you know, people's heart and guts and feeling like Democrats are leaving them behind. And Democrats aren't necessarily only focusing on trans and abortion and some of these other cultural issues, but we're not running away from them because we feel like it's a need for us to defend in those you know, obviously critical people's lives, but Republicans do a good job of then wedging us, so then we don't get to talk about Talliver.

We can't talk about the working class without talking about unions, of course, which have usually supported Democrats. But this year we saw a distinct shift from unions at both the rank and file and leadership level.

We can't talk about the working class without talking about unions, of course, which have usually supported Democrats. But this year we saw a distinct shift from unions at both the rank and file and leadership level.

Yeah, very true. The teamsters in particular have long been staunched supporters of Democrat candidates, but not this year. Here's teams to President Sean O'Brien on Fox News. The union decided not to endorse either candidate this year.

Yeah, very true. The teamsters in particular have long been staunched supporters of Democrat candidates, but not this year. Here's teams to President Sean O'Brien on Fox News. The union decided not to endorse either candidate this year.

We interviewed both candidates and we were seeking commitments from both candidates, and we couldn't get solid commitments on our core issues like the pro Act, like video and national right to work, like staying out of labor disputes and not trying to force any contracts on us, like what happened to our brothers and sisters in the real industry. And we didn't get solid commitments from either candidate, which was a major factor in our decision as a general executive board not to endorse any candidate.

We interviewed both candidates and we were seeking commitments from both candidates, and we couldn't get solid commitments on our core issues like the pro Act, like video and national right to work, like staying out of labor disputes and not trying to force any contracts on us, like what happened to our brothers and sisters in the real industry. And we didn't get solid commitments from either candidate, which was a major factor in our decision as a general executive board not to endorse any candidate.

And again, he didn't endorse either candidate this year, we'll be right back with more of the middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning.

And again, he didn't endorse either candidate this year, we'll be right back with more of the middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning.

In the Middle is a national call in show. We're focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically, and philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking you what can the Democratic Party do to reach the working class? Better appeal to the working class. However, what is the number to call in?

In the Middle is a national call in show. We're focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically, and philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking you what can the Democratic Party do to reach the working class? Better appeal to the working class. However, what is the number to call in?

It's eight four four for Middle. That's eight four four four six four three three five three. You can also write to us that listen to the Middle dot com or on social media.

It's eight four four for Middle. That's eight four four four six four three three five three. You can also write to us that listen to the Middle dot com or on social media.

I'm joined by journalists and author Sarah Smarsh and Nebraska Democratic Party Chair Jane Kleb. And before we go back to the phones, let's talk about unions, because we just heard from Sean O'Brien a moment ago, the Teamsters, also the longshoreman, the firefighters union. They did not endorse the Democrat this time, even though they have done that in the past, and even though Democrats are more supportive of unions. Kamala Harris walked a picket line with striking autoworkers Jane Club, what do you think about the shift among union workers, which is an important part of the working class, although not all of the working class.

I'm joined by journalists and author Sarah Smarsh and Nebraska Democratic Party Chair Jane Kleb. And before we go back to the phones, let's talk about unions, because we just heard from Sean O'Brien a moment ago, the Teamsters, also the longshoreman, the firefighters union. They did not endorse the Democrat this time, even though they have done that in the past, and even though Democrats are more supportive of unions. Kamala Harris walked a picket line with striking autoworkers Jane Club, what do you think about the shift among union workers, which is an important part of the working class, although not all of the working class.

Yeah, I mean, I think obviously the vast majority of unions backed you know, Democrats, especially at the top of the ticket, clearly at the state and local level. But what I think you are seeing is some of the rank and file are pushing back on their leadership. There are more Republicans in unions now than there used to be. The railroaders for example, and Nebraska used to be percent Democrats. They're now seveny Republicans. So there is a real shift, and I think we're seeing, you know, their leadership reflecting.

Yeah, I mean, I think obviously the vast majority of unions backed you know, Democrats, especially at the top of the ticket, clearly at the state and local level. But what I think you are seeing is some of the rank and file are pushing back on their leadership. There are more Republicans in unions now than there used to be. The railroaders for example, and Nebraska used to be percent Democrats. They're now seveny Republicans. So there is a real shift, and I think we're seeing, you know, their leadership reflecting.

Their baits now.

Their baits now.

Obviously, Democrats policies clearly back unions were the ones who believe that we need to pass a national law like card check that gives people the ability to create unions in their workplace, and Republicans are firmly against that. But again, you know, I think some of the problems also is in the visuals of Democrats.

Obviously, Democrats policies clearly back unions were the ones who believe that we need to pass a national law like card check that gives people the ability to create unions in their workplace, and Republicans are firmly against that. But again, you know, I think some of the problems also is in the visuals of Democrats.

We don't have many.

We don't have many.

Rural We just lost our last working farmer in John Tester, have many rural We don't have any working class folks in leadership positions being the ones that are the spokespeople of our party.

Rural We just lost our last working farmer in John Tester, have many rural We don't have any working class folks in leadership positions being the ones that are the spokespeople of our party.

That's something that.

That's something that.

We're actively working now to change in this new leadership elections that we're hosting.

We're actively working now to change in this new leadership elections that we're hosting.

Interesting, let's go to Susan, who's in Payatt County, Idaho.

Interesting, let's go to Susan, who's in Payatt County, Idaho.

Susan, welcome to the middle.

Susan, welcome to the middle.

Go ahead, Hi, what a timely discussion. A Paett County, Idaho very rural. My husband a longtime Democrat farmer there. I attended the reorganization meeting this week of our Paett County Democrats. I was the only person attending who had any linkage to working class America by history. Granddaughter of a mine worker, daughter of a teamster. I was a public service employee union member. I was the only one who mentioned that I can go toe to toe with these managerial types based on my education at the elite universe public university of our country. But I don't lead with that. But they don't care that I am the only person sitting in this room who has any connection with working people. They're all about the money. Who gives the most money to the campaigns? That all lost, by the way, and the tone is all wrong. I like Sarah's comment clunky language. I'm one of their peers on education, but they offended me. And I'm a lifelong Democrat.

Go ahead, Hi, what a timely discussion. A Paett County, Idaho very rural. My husband a longtime Democrat farmer there. I attended the reorganization meeting this week of our Paett County Democrats. I was the only person attending who had any linkage to working class America by history. Granddaughter of a mine worker, daughter of a teamster. I was a public service employee union member. I was the only one who mentioned that I can go toe to toe with these managerial types based on my education at the elite universe public university of our country. But I don't lead with that. But they don't care that I am the only person sitting in this room who has any connection with working people. They're all about the money. Who gives the most money to the campaigns? That all lost, by the way, and the tone is all wrong. I like Sarah's comment clunky language. I'm one of their peers on education, but they offended me. And I'm a lifelong Democrat.

And did you ever consider voting for Trump this time around, Susan.

And did you ever consider voting for Trump this time around, Susan.

Oh, never, I would not vote before, I would vote for tones, could never vote for anything that man stands for. It's all alive. Anybody who will listen will agree with you on the individual lives. They just won't take the package and say no, that's not acceptable.

Oh, never, I would not vote before, I would vote for tones, could never vote for anything that man stands for. It's all alive. Anybody who will listen will agree with you on the individual lives. They just won't take the package and say no, that's not acceptable.

So why do you think so many people in the working class Susan did decide to vote for Trump this last time?

So why do you think so many people in the working class Susan did decide to vote for Trump this last time?

Well, as I said, I was dismissed in a group of my peers for being a working class person. As Jane said, a nurse is a trades person. Well, the kind of education that it takes to be a trades person anymore is kind of high, and for all years it has been. But you're not treated like you're the peer of these people who manage the rest of you.

Well, as I said, I was dismissed in a group of my peers for being a working class person. As Jane said, a nurse is a trades person. Well, the kind of education that it takes to be a trades person anymore is kind of high, and for all years it has been. But you're not treated like you're the peer of these people who manage the rest of you.

You're just not, Susan.

You're just not, Susan.

Thank you, Sarah, smash your thoughts on that. I mean, she's really articulating the idea of like being looked down on by her even her fellow Democrats.

Thank you, Sarah, smash your thoughts on that. I mean, she's really articulating the idea of like being looked down on by her even her fellow Democrats.

Yes, class is not just about money. It's not just about income. It's not just about wealth that is or isn't in a bank account.

Yes, class is not just about money. It's not just about income. It's not just about wealth that is or isn't in a bank account.

It's not even just.

It's not even just.

About college degrees. It's also about culture and about attitudes, and about the way that certain spaces and certain types of people have been portrayed in movies and TV shows and books for a long time in a way that is deeply marked by classism, and that concern, that issue is rife throughout our society. And I don't think it's the province of the Democratic Party by a means or limited.

About college degrees. It's also about culture and about attitudes, and about the way that certain spaces and certain types of people have been portrayed in movies and TV shows and books for a long time in a way that is deeply marked by classism, and that concern, that issue is rife throughout our society. And I don't think it's the province of the Democratic Party by a means or limited.

To that space.

To that space.

But there is something to the fact that at the same moment that okay, we had NAFTA, which was a culmination, that free trade agreement in the nineties was a culmination of both parties.

But there is something to the fact that at the same moment that okay, we had NAFTA, which was a culmination, that free trade agreement in the nineties was a culmination of both parties.

The person who.

The person who.

Signed it into law was Bill Clinton. I think that left a bitter taste in a lot of former Democrats' mouth, Democrats at the time who were members of the working class. And then at that precise moment, we find ourselves moving toward historic wealth inequality. And then at that precise moment, the Right comes in and starts talking about class and addressing the very valid sense of pain and being on the losing end of condescension and it's really a perfect storm for the Democrats to experience the sort of reckoning that they're seeing right now.

Signed it into law was Bill Clinton. I think that left a bitter taste in a lot of former Democrats' mouth, Democrats at the time who were members of the working class. And then at that precise moment, we find ourselves moving toward historic wealth inequality. And then at that precise moment, the Right comes in and starts talking about class and addressing the very valid sense of pain and being on the losing end of condescension and it's really a perfect storm for the Democrats to experience the sort of reckoning that they're seeing right now.

Well, and it's interesting because you mentioned NAFTA. That was one of the first things that Donald Trump did when he came in the first time was renegotiated into the USMCA, and now he's saying that he wants to do that again, even though that was his his deal. But obviously he sees that as on the top of minds of people in the working class in this country and his supporters. Let's go to Shock Kim, who is in north side Las Vegas, Nevada, shot him.

Well, and it's interesting because you mentioned NAFTA. That was one of the first things that Donald Trump did when he came in the first time was renegotiated into the USMCA, and now he's saying that he wants to do that again, even though that was his his deal. But obviously he sees that as on the top of minds of people in the working class in this country and his supporters. Let's go to Shock Kim, who is in north side Las Vegas, Nevada, shot him.

Welcome to the middle, go ahead.

Welcome to the middle, go ahead.

Thank you so much appreciated. I just wanted to say I kind of came in on the tail end of conversation and the last thing I heard was maybe the Democrats should have toooed up their own horn regarding the economy. And you know, it's funny because well, not really funny, but you know, kind of humorous because it's like, you know, I've studied accounting, and I've taken several economics classes, and I always found that a lot of the indicators, key indicators regarding an economy that candidates will like to kind of you know, spout all to you know, to prove that the economy is doing so great. A lot of what they're saying, the working class they don't feel that. And maybe, you know, on the macro level, the economy is doing great, But my grandfather, who's buying eggs at Smith's, he can't make that connection. And sure there may be av and bird flu, you know, that's you know, causing the price of eggs to rise. But you know, that messaging that's not getting out. And even if it did get out, I don't know if somebody like my grandfather or my father, I don't know if they will be recepted to that.

Thank you so much appreciated. I just wanted to say I kind of came in on the tail end of conversation and the last thing I heard was maybe the Democrats should have toooed up their own horn regarding the economy. And you know, it's funny because well, not really funny, but you know, kind of humorous because it's like, you know, I've studied accounting, and I've taken several economics classes, and I always found that a lot of the indicators, key indicators regarding an economy that candidates will like to kind of you know, spout all to you know, to prove that the economy is doing so great. A lot of what they're saying, the working class they don't feel that. And maybe, you know, on the macro level, the economy is doing great, But my grandfather, who's buying eggs at Smith's, he can't make that connection. And sure there may be av and bird flu, you know, that's you know, causing the price of eggs to rise. But you know, that messaging that's not getting out. And even if it did get out, I don't know if somebody like my grandfather or my father, I don't know if they will be recepted to that.

You know.

You know.

So I think, you know, just saying, oh, democraticators toot their horn with the economy a bit more, I don't even know if that will be effective.

So I think, you know, just saying, oh, democraticators toot their horn with the economy a bit more, I don't even know if that will be effective.

Interesting.

Interesting.

Yeah, I guess actions speak louder than words to it to a lot of people.

Yeah, I guess actions speak louder than words to it to a lot of people.

Shot Kim, thank you, Jane Club, what do you think about that?

Shot Kim, thank you, Jane Club, what do you think about that?

Yeah?

Yeah?

You know, as a chair we would get these talking points from the White House, you know that were like three pages long telling us to you know, keep on hitting the build back better and the IRA and how many projects. You know, money went out too, but you know a lot of those projects weren't getting built yet, right, and so they'll actually be getting built under Donald Trump. And so you'll see Donald Trump actually getting a lot of credit for battery storage and all these other kind of projects that the money went out the door under Biden.

You know, as a chair we would get these talking points from the White House, you know that were like three pages long telling us to you know, keep on hitting the build back better and the IRA and how many projects. You know, money went out too, but you know a lot of those projects weren't getting built yet, right, and so they'll actually be getting built under Donald Trump. And so you'll see Donald Trump actually getting a lot of credit for battery storage and all these other kind of projects that the money went out the door under Biden.

And so we failed to listen to voters.

And so we failed to listen to voters.

We failed to address the immediate concerns that people were having, whether it was gas prices, then it was groceries and housing, and we know solutions that worked, right.

We failed to address the immediate concerns that people were having, whether it was gas prices, then it was groceries and housing, and we know solutions that worked, right.

The child tax credit did work. It put immediate money in.

The child tax credit did work. It put immediate money in.

People's pockets and immediately addressed their concerns and their pain. And as Democrats, we should have done the same again. Instead, we were worried about Republicans hitting us with, you know, talking points of debt. But if the republic, if the tables were turned, Republicans would have done exactly that.

People's pockets and immediately addressed their concerns and their pain. And as Democrats, we should have done the same again. Instead, we were worried about Republicans hitting us with, you know, talking points of debt. But if the republic, if the tables were turned, Republicans would have done exactly that.

They would have gotten checks signed by Donald Trump.

They would have gotten checks signed by Donald Trump.

Into people's mailboxes, so they knew that the government was listening to them.

Into people's mailboxes, so they knew that the government was listening to them.

Well.

Well.

And speaking of sign by Donald Trump, I saw President Biden was saying he thought that he was I don't know whether he.

And speaking of sign by Donald Trump, I saw President Biden was saying he thought that he was I don't know whether he.

Used the word stupid or an idiot for not.

Used the word stupid or an idiot for not.

Signing his name on stimulus checks because Donald Trump obviously got credit for signing his name on the stimulus checks.

Signing his name on stimulus checks because Donald Trump obviously got credit for signing his name on the stimulus checks.

It still blows my mind the Democrats can't message to the working class when their opponent is Donald Trump and come on, literally.

It still blows my mind the Democrats can't message to the working class when their opponent is Donald Trump and come on, literally.

A billionaire, right. We fased a billionaire.

A billionaire, right. We fased a billionaire.

Who had felonies, who's basically a reality TV show and has multiple bankruptcies, and we couldn't beat him because there is something about him that makes people say he will stick it to the man, right like he even though he is a billionaire, he looks he gives this perception that he is against corporate greed and that's our party, that's our party's message.

Who had felonies, who's basically a reality TV show and has multiple bankruptcies, and we couldn't beat him because there is something about him that makes people say he will stick it to the man, right like he even though he is a billionaire, he looks he gives this perception that he is against corporate greed and that's our party, that's our party's message.

But we failed to even mention that.

But we failed to even mention that.

I mean, did you hear Kamala Harris often talk about how we are going to take it to corporate greed.

I mean, did you hear Kamala Harris often talk about how we are going to take it to corporate greed.

No, we did not. We didn't deliver that message.

No, we did not. We didn't deliver that message.

Let's go to David who's in Dallas Town Access David, Welcome to the middle.

Let's go to David who's in Dallas Town Access David, Welcome to the middle.

What do you think.

What do you think.

I really appreciate you taking the call. If you could have the Democratic Party stopped insulting the working class. I think back to the infamous backut of Deplorable's comment, right, There's been a succession of figures in the Democratic Party who have made it sound like people who may be better lying Republicans or were on the fence, and then suddenly being told that, oh, if you're voting for Donald truck or stupid, which I personally did not, just he is deplorable. But then when you do that, I, as somewhat of a moderate, have no route to engage with the majority of my family and my sened family who are mega Republicans who maybe were raised in a more traditional setting or were very religious.

I really appreciate you taking the call. If you could have the Democratic Party stopped insulting the working class. I think back to the infamous backut of Deplorable's comment, right, There's been a succession of figures in the Democratic Party who have made it sound like people who may be better lying Republicans or were on the fence, and then suddenly being told that, oh, if you're voting for Donald truck or stupid, which I personally did not, just he is deplorable. But then when you do that, I, as somewhat of a moderate, have no route to engage with the majority of my family and my sened family who are mega Republicans who maybe were raised in a more traditional setting or were very religious.

I myself be very religious, and I have no leg to stand on. If you insault the electric if you insult people because they don't agree with some of the culture worse stuff that's being said, then there is no room for dialogue and just going to continue to polarize the conversations.

I myself be very religious, and I have no leg to stand on. If you insault the electric if you insult people because they don't agree with some of the culture worse stuff that's being said, then there is no room for dialogue and just going to continue to polarize the conversations.

And did you hear Kamala Harris in particular insulting the electorate or are you just talking in general terms? Are you going back to Hillary Clinton with the basket of port I'm.

And did you hear Kamala Harris in particular insulting the electorate or are you just talking in general terms? Are you going back to Hillary Clinton with the basket of port I'm.

Going back to Harry Clinton. I'm also thinking about President Biden in some of the comments that he made about individuals who are voting for Ronald Trump, during the election and even after he bowed out right because that didn't do Kamala Harris any favors when he made those comments.

Going back to Harry Clinton. I'm also thinking about President Biden in some of the comments that he made about individuals who are voting for Ronald Trump, during the election and even after he bowed out right because that didn't do Kamala Harris any favors when he made those comments.

Yeah, David, thank you very much for that. Sarah smrsh your thoughts there on David's comments.

Yeah, David, thank you very much for that. Sarah smrsh your thoughts there on David's comments.

Just to expand on the sense that he's getting at or pointing at. It doesn't have to just be an overt comment or insult. I would argue that it's an insult to tell people that the economy is doing great when there's forty or fifty million people in this country and poverty. The most common household among them is single mothers and their children. Never heard the word poverty. I read an eighty two page economic plan. I didn't see the term working class once. I even did a PDF story for it. Wasn't there poverty was mentioned in that document. The economic plan that was offered by the Harris campaign in the context of the child tax credit very good. But what I'm getting at is it's not just about direct and over insults. It's about it's about a sense of being unseen and a sense of being rendered invisible and by whether it's the reality or the messaging or both. Politics and political behavior is really an emotional one before it is a rational one oftentimes, and that's true on both sides of the aisle. And a lot of people just felt like we're in a burn it down moment, right or wrong. I am struggling to survive and I'm ready to burn it down. A Democratic socialist from Vermont who had a similar message got more support in the Kansas caucus in twenty sixteen than Donald Trump did. Okay, And so I'm not so sure that it's about too much wokeness or being too progressive on social ideas. I think it's about like, who is looking in the eye and saying, I believe that you are in pain and we need major structural change. And if if whether they're whether what they're lying or not, and what their motivations are, that's a different conversation. But but I think what the caller was getting at is a sense of, uh, the real struggle and strife that a lot of people feel is you know, being made invisible while perhaps they're simultaneously also being consent condescended to well.

Just to expand on the sense that he's getting at or pointing at. It doesn't have to just be an overt comment or insult. I would argue that it's an insult to tell people that the economy is doing great when there's forty or fifty million people in this country and poverty. The most common household among them is single mothers and their children. Never heard the word poverty. I read an eighty two page economic plan. I didn't see the term working class once. I even did a PDF story for it. Wasn't there poverty was mentioned in that document. The economic plan that was offered by the Harris campaign in the context of the child tax credit very good. But what I'm getting at is it's not just about direct and over insults. It's about it's about a sense of being unseen and a sense of being rendered invisible and by whether it's the reality or the messaging or both. Politics and political behavior is really an emotional one before it is a rational one oftentimes, and that's true on both sides of the aisle. And a lot of people just felt like we're in a burn it down moment, right or wrong. I am struggling to survive and I'm ready to burn it down. A Democratic socialist from Vermont who had a similar message got more support in the Kansas caucus in twenty sixteen than Donald Trump did. Okay, And so I'm not so sure that it's about too much wokeness or being too progressive on social ideas. I think it's about like, who is looking in the eye and saying, I believe that you are in pain and we need major structural change. And if if whether they're whether what they're lying or not, and what their motivations are, that's a different conversation. But but I think what the caller was getting at is a sense of, uh, the real struggle and strife that a lot of people feel is you know, being made invisible while perhaps they're simultaneously also being consent condescended to well.

And Jane Club.

And Jane Club.

Donald Trump did make a lot of promises in this campaign about no tax on tips, no tax on over time, and things like that. Do you expect him to carry out those those promises? He even is talking about potentially raising the minimum wage, things that a lot of people in the working class would like to see.

Donald Trump did make a lot of promises in this campaign about no tax on tips, no tax on over time, and things like that. Do you expect him to carry out those those promises? He even is talking about potentially raising the minimum wage, things that a lot of people in the working class would like to see.

Do you expect him to do those things? And do you expect him to be punished if he doesn't do those things by these people who voted for him?

Do you expect him to do those things? And do you expect him to be punished if he doesn't do those things by these people who voted for him?

So polytics memories, people's memories are very short. So I'm not sure that you know. And if we've seen the track record of Donald Trump, he doesn't seem to get punished by voters. Now he's already started to walk back the minimum wage comment. He made a comment just the other day that he's not sure that he could do it at the national level because there's different states that have different economic needs, like somebody in Nebraska eight dollars an hours different than somebody in New York. So you may start to see him walk back some of these things and on like overtime.

So polytics memories, people's memories are very short. So I'm not sure that you know. And if we've seen the track record of Donald Trump, he doesn't seem to get punished by voters. Now he's already started to walk back the minimum wage comment. He made a comment just the other day that he's not sure that he could do it at the national level because there's different states that have different economic needs, like somebody in Nebraska eight dollars an hours different than somebody in New York. So you may start to see him walk back some of these things and on like overtime.

I was with a bunch of union guys at IBW.

I was with a bunch of union guys at IBW.

Hall the other day and they were very frustrated about the overtime comment because they basically were like, we know what he's doing.

Hall the other day and they were very frustrated about the overtime comment because they basically were like, we know what he's doing.

It's basically all window dressing.

It's basically all window dressing.

He's gonna say that he's gonna have no taxes on overtime, but then there's gonna be rules in place where they can't even get overtime, So that you know, there's this like give and take of the issues at play. But I do think that this really goes back to voters definitely told us at the doors. This was not something that we were blinds by as Democrats. I think a lot of you know, there's some structural issue to this where the boomers won't let go of leadership positions and our party they've been so detached from on the ground working class and middle class voters that they don't even have the ability to hear us when we say there's a problem because they're living in the bubble of DC or the bubble of consulting class. Not to say, obviously that Biden Inherris didn't do great things. I'm a strong Democrat. I believe Democratic Party looks out for people. But we failed voters this cycle, and we allowed Donald Trump to get back into the White House, and he is going to do real harm on poor working class in people who we care about, like immigrants.

He's gonna say that he's gonna have no taxes on overtime, but then there's gonna be rules in place where they can't even get overtime, So that you know, there's this like give and take of the issues at play. But I do think that this really goes back to voters definitely told us at the doors. This was not something that we were blinds by as Democrats. I think a lot of you know, there's some structural issue to this where the boomers won't let go of leadership positions and our party they've been so detached from on the ground working class and middle class voters that they don't even have the ability to hear us when we say there's a problem because they're living in the bubble of DC or the bubble of consulting class. Not to say, obviously that Biden Inherris didn't do great things. I'm a strong Democrat. I believe Democratic Party looks out for people. But we failed voters this cycle, and we allowed Donald Trump to get back into the White House, and he is going to do real harm on poor working class in people who we care about, like immigrants.

Put food on our table.

Put food on our table.

Let's get to a call. Ken is calling from Nashville, Tennessee. Ken What do you think the Democrats should do to appeal to the working class.

Let's get to a call. Ken is calling from Nashville, Tennessee. Ken What do you think the Democrats should do to appeal to the working class.

Yeah, it's the first and foremost problem is that the playbook today is the same it was in nineteen sixty eight. In sixty eight, Lyndon Johnson doesn't run, Hubert Humphrey takes over. There are a ton of celebrities backing Hubert Humphrey, Rocker, Tommy James, They go, Will, let's get him because we need to have the young vote. It's the same thing that happened this year. It's an old playbook. It does not work. You're not going to get the middle class and those who are in need to come to vote for your candidate because you've got John bon Jovie on stage or Beyonce. Nobody cares about that. And I'm a professional musician, nobody cares about that. I've run three campaigns for Democrats in this state. I cannot even get any congressman or congresswoman to call me back ever, because they don't. What they will do is send you an email and say we got your message. Hey, we're a little low on funds, send us some money.

Yeah, it's the first and foremost problem is that the playbook today is the same it was in nineteen sixty eight. In sixty eight, Lyndon Johnson doesn't run, Hubert Humphrey takes over. There are a ton of celebrities backing Hubert Humphrey, Rocker, Tommy James, They go, Will, let's get him because we need to have the young vote. It's the same thing that happened this year. It's an old playbook. It does not work. You're not going to get the middle class and those who are in need to come to vote for your candidate because you've got John bon Jovie on stage or Beyonce. Nobody cares about that. And I'm a professional musician, nobody cares about that. I've run three campaigns for Democrats in this state. I cannot even get any congressman or congresswoman to call me back ever, because they don't. What they will do is send you an email and say we got your message. Hey, we're a little low on funds, send us some money.

That's what did you make a five dollars contribution right now on Ken, Thank you for that, and you've set up Tolliver for like any kind of you can say.

That's what did you make a five dollars contribution right now on Ken, Thank you for that, and you've set up Tolliver for like any kind of you can say.

Now, Tommy James, I'm voting for Kid Rock.

Now, Tommy James, I'm voting for Kid Rock.

Okay, that's where my vote is.

Okay, that's where my vote is.

Telliver. I know some messages are coming in online.

Telliver. I know some messages are coming in online.

Yeah, we got a lot of them. So Laura and Greeley says Democrats need one liners, Democrats need more one liners. I agree with that, John and Chicago Rights. I personally don't think Trump and his cronies will help, but I have vast sympathies for people who think that the nanny state has crept into every aspect of our lives, and their intrusive policies, from very poorly thought out green energy to ineffective DEI strategies have rightfully driven people to have to pick any alternative.

Yeah, we got a lot of them. So Laura and Greeley says Democrats need one liners, Democrats need more one liners. I agree with that, John and Chicago Rights. I personally don't think Trump and his cronies will help, but I have vast sympathies for people who think that the nanny state has crept into every aspect of our lives, and their intrusive policies, from very poorly thought out green energy to ineffective DEI strategies have rightfully driven people to have to pick any alternative.

You know.

You know.

It's that is a perfect segue, Tolliver, because the idea of the messaging being the problem is something that has been around for a long time for Democrats.

It's that is a perfect segue, Tolliver, because the idea of the messaging being the problem is something that has been around for a long time for Democrats.

Yeah, and that's something we've heard before. Here's some criticism of Hillary Clinton's ability to appeal to working class white voters in twenty sixteen from none other than Joe Biden.

Yeah, and that's something we've heard before. Here's some criticism of Hillary Clinton's ability to appeal to working class white voters in twenty sixteen from none other than Joe Biden.

There's been a shift in a focus now that we got the car out of the ditch and on the road and running on really focusing on the real inequities that exist and still exists for working class, middle class people who are left behind. And uh, And what happened was that wasn't the central part of the campaign moving forward in my view now. I said at the convention, when I introduced Hillery and praised her, I said, we don't show enough respect to that group that in fact has been left behind.

There's been a shift in a focus now that we got the car out of the ditch and on the road and running on really focusing on the real inequities that exist and still exists for working class, middle class people who are left behind. And uh, And what happened was that wasn't the central part of the campaign moving forward in my view now. I said at the convention, when I introduced Hillery and praised her, I said, we don't show enough respect to that group that in fact has been left behind.

That as you can hear, Tulliver is Joe Biden from a long time ago, twenty sixteen, that's when that was vintage. Yes, we'll be right back with more of your calls on the middle.

That as you can hear, Tulliver is Joe Biden from a long time ago, twenty sixteen, that's when that was vintage. Yes, we'll be right back with more of your calls on the middle.

This is the Middle.

This is the Middle.

I'm Jeremy Hobson, and this hour we're asking you what could Democrats do to appeal to the working class. You can call us at eight four four four Middle that's eight four four four six four.

I'm Jeremy Hobson, and this hour we're asking you what could Democrats do to appeal to the working class. You can call us at eight four four four Middle that's eight four four four six four.

Three three five three.

Three three five three.

You can also reach out at Listen to the Middle dot com. I'm joined by journalists and author Sarah Smarsh and Nebraska Democratic Party Chair Jane Kleb And before we go back to the phones, Sarah one way of looking at the select is that it was about inflation first and foremost. That's something that's been happening around the world since the pandemic, and parties that are in power have been in trouble everywhere. What do you say to people who say the Democrats don't have a problem with the working class, they're just getting the blowback for inflation that has hit the working class harder than anyone else.

You can also reach out at Listen to the Middle dot com. I'm joined by journalists and author Sarah Smarsh and Nebraska Democratic Party Chair Jane Kleb And before we go back to the phones, Sarah one way of looking at the select is that it was about inflation first and foremost. That's something that's been happening around the world since the pandemic, and parties that are in power have been in trouble everywhere. What do you say to people who say the Democrats don't have a problem with the working class, they're just getting the blowback for inflation that has hit the working class harder than anyone else.

Well, I would say to that that, I think the moment at which we find ourselves is a culmination of decades of the Democratic Party kind of drifting away from its original core identity in supporting working class folks. So, yes, every election is a reflection of more recent times, but there's been a deep shift and these sorts of trends of specifically working class folks, first the white ones, and now also people of color within that socioeconomic strata moving away from the Democratic Party. And just in case it doesn't come up by way of any other questions, let's just let's just point out that, regardless of party, a lot of good and decent people who are working within that system, their hands are tied by the amount of money, corporate money, big money, big billionaire money that is in politics because of citizens United, and so long as that is guiding the ship of our government. A lot of these conversations that we're having are just sort of getting at the edges of the true and primary cause of what people are and are not able to do with. The levers of are often very wonderful and enviewable democracy.

Well, I would say to that that, I think the moment at which we find ourselves is a culmination of decades of the Democratic Party kind of drifting away from its original core identity in supporting working class folks. So, yes, every election is a reflection of more recent times, but there's been a deep shift and these sorts of trends of specifically working class folks, first the white ones, and now also people of color within that socioeconomic strata moving away from the Democratic Party. And just in case it doesn't come up by way of any other questions, let's just let's just point out that, regardless of party, a lot of good and decent people who are working within that system, their hands are tied by the amount of money, corporate money, big money, big billionaire money that is in politics because of citizens United, and so long as that is guiding the ship of our government. A lot of these conversations that we're having are just sort of getting at the edges of the true and primary cause of what people are and are not able to do with. The levers of are often very wonderful and enviewable democracy.

Let's go to Bob, who's in Overland Park, Kansas. Bob, welcome to the middle. Your thoughts on what the Democrats should do to appeal to the working class.

Let's go to Bob, who's in Overland Park, Kansas. Bob, welcome to the middle. Your thoughts on what the Democrats should do to appeal to the working class.

Well, I agree with the last comment that it's been decades since this problem has been building up. The Republicans have spent the last forty to fifty years with think tanks and academic position papers and the telecommunication infrastructure they have, and they've convinced everybody that the solution to everything is the free market and deregulate and get rid of government and lower taxes. And no matter what people say, now, they've got this in their head. So you can't even raise taxes on billionaires now without people getting upset. And the Democrats have got to start planning and changing so that they can change the public awareness of the problems we have where we've got a country of private opulence and public squalor. And it's just appalling that we've had this democratic acquiescence to all these things that have gone on for the past thirty forty years, where they've allowed deregulation and for example, we got rid of the U in the radio, we got rid of the fairness doctrine. So we've got all these terrible things going out that people listen to all day, and deregulating the financial industry, we've got levels of economic inequality that's just historic.

Well, I agree with the last comment that it's been decades since this problem has been building up. The Republicans have spent the last forty to fifty years with think tanks and academic position papers and the telecommunication infrastructure they have, and they've convinced everybody that the solution to everything is the free market and deregulate and get rid of government and lower taxes. And no matter what people say, now, they've got this in their head. So you can't even raise taxes on billionaires now without people getting upset. And the Democrats have got to start planning and changing so that they can change the public awareness of the problems we have where we've got a country of private opulence and public squalor. And it's just appalling that we've had this democratic acquiescence to all these things that have gone on for the past thirty forty years, where they've allowed deregulation and for example, we got rid of the U in the radio, we got rid of the fairness doctrine. So we've got all these terrible things going out that people listen to all day, and deregulating the financial industry, we've got levels of economic inequality that's just historic.

And I think I think we've got your point there. Let me take that to Jane Cleb and ask me. He says democratic acquiescence to what Republicans have been doing for many years. It sounds like he's saying they're just not fighting back enough.

And I think I think we've got your point there. Let me take that to Jane Cleb and ask me. He says democratic acquiescence to what Republicans have been doing for many years. It sounds like he's saying they're just not fighting back enough.

Yeah, and obviously we do need to fight back because let's look at Donald Trump's cabinet. It is literally filled with now billionaires, and he's certainly not a reflection of the working or middle class with the people that he is elevating and said, anywhere can people that if your corporation and you give a billion dollars to make things in America that he's going to do away with any regulation. And I get that that is this populist message that is going to cut through to some people.

Yeah, and obviously we do need to fight back because let's look at Donald Trump's cabinet. It is literally filled with now billionaires, and he's certainly not a reflection of the working or middle class with the people that he is elevating and said, anywhere can people that if your corporation and you give a billion dollars to make things in America that he's going to do away with any regulation. And I get that that is this populist message that is going to cut through to some people.

But what that is going to mean is going to be.

But what that is going to mean is going to be.

More pollution for communities that are going to be left behind, you know, not unsimilar to all of us not doing good by folks who live near fossil fuels where we need fossil fuels. Of course, when you turn your lights on that you can see and we can build America, but we never did right by the workers who were in the coal mines.

More pollution for communities that are going to be left behind, you know, not unsimilar to all of us not doing good by folks who live near fossil fuels where we need fossil fuels. Of course, when you turn your lights on that you can see and we can build America, but we never did right by the workers who were in the coal mines.

We never did right by the communities whose land and water were polluted.

We never did right by the communities whose land and water were polluted.

And so we have this major responsibility in front of us now as Democrats, where we can put forward proposals and ideas to reform America as an energy system so communities are actually made whole while we're still making energy.

And so we have this major responsibility in front of us now as Democrats, where we can put forward proposals and ideas to reform America as an energy system so communities are actually made whole while we're still making energy.

That's what we are going to do.

That's what we are going to do.

I mean, there's a whole new generation of Democrats, myself included Ken Martin who's running for the d are we are scared of sitting and waiting for the boomers to let us lead. We're basically pushing our way through to the front. So we do start to change our message. We do start to reflect more than one person on the convention stage, which was John Russell. We had one working class person who wore a snapshirt and a haircut that working class people visually recognize that has got to change.

I mean, there's a whole new generation of Democrats, myself included Ken Martin who's running for the d are we are scared of sitting and waiting for the boomers to let us lead. We're basically pushing our way through to the front. So we do start to change our message. We do start to reflect more than one person on the convention stage, which was John Russell. We had one working class person who wore a snapshirt and a haircut that working class people visually recognize that has got to change.

Let's go to Hannah, who is in Philadelphia.

Let's go to Hannah, who is in Philadelphia.

Hannah, welcome to the middle Go ahead.

Hannah, welcome to the middle Go ahead.

Hey, thanks, Jeremy. Yeah, I'm from Philly. So one of the things I was thinking about was maybe we're ignoring the fact that not that we did something wrong with our messaging, but we're ignoring the fact that the candidate wasn't just appealing to the vast majority of the working class. For instance. I mean, and I'm totally cool with you know, I.

Hey, thanks, Jeremy. Yeah, I'm from Philly. So one of the things I was thinking about was maybe we're ignoring the fact that not that we did something wrong with our messaging, but we're ignoring the fact that the candidate wasn't just appealing to the vast majority of the working class. For instance. I mean, and I'm totally cool with you know, I.

Wanted a woman.

Wanted a woman.

I didn't you know, of color would have been fine too. I was a supporter of Barack Obama. But I think that the male factor is really important to traditional people. You know, the working class tends to be more traditional, and I think we're kind of ignoring that and thinking that it's the messaging or the things we did long when really might have just been the candidate.

I didn't you know, of color would have been fine too. I was a supporter of Barack Obama. But I think that the male factor is really important to traditional people. You know, the working class tends to be more traditional, and I think we're kind of ignoring that and thinking that it's the messaging or the things we did long when really might have just been the candidate.

It's an interesting point, and I'm glad that we have an all female panel to respond to that. Sarah smarsh I mean, she's making the point that maybe the working class, more traditional didn't want a woman candidate, and that that was one of the problems.

It's an interesting point, and I'm glad that we have an all female panel to respond to that. Sarah smarsh I mean, she's making the point that maybe the working class, more traditional didn't want a woman candidate, and that that was one of the problems.

What do you think about that.

What do you think about that.

I think there might be some religious factions of our electorate for whom that would be true. The working class folks, I know, regardless of gender, regardless of race. I'm gonna be honest with you. Of course, sexism and misogyny remain rife in our society, and I don't actually believe that that was the main reason that a lot of working class voters didn't connect with with the candidate.

I think there might be some religious factions of our electorate for whom that would be true. The working class folks, I know, regardless of gender, regardless of race. I'm gonna be honest with you. Of course, sexism and misogyny remain rife in our society, and I don't actually believe that that was the main reason that a lot of working class voters didn't connect with with the candidate.

Okay, Aisha is with us from Chicago. Aisha, what do you think?

Okay, Aisha is with us from Chicago. Aisha, what do you think?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. I was telling a producer. I really think that there we we've this has been discussed right. There is a listening problem within the party. There is a communicating problem within the party, and I think that's because the party no longer knows the middle the working class. I think they are. There is a vast different or distance that's been put between the party and the representative than what actually exists out here on the ground. And that's showing up in one way that I noticed during the campaign season that it showed up. It's even the language that's being used. How can you talk to someone who works a teamster that works in a factory about the ax that they pay when you're talking at economic times? Do they even understand what you're talking about? How can you display how your policy will affect them when they don't even know how policy works. So knowing your audience is one of the ways that you communicate with your audience effectively, and that is not happening in the party, not at all.