Ring ring ring ring. May I please speak with Zoe. Oh, hello, Lamar, Let's patch in Hannah. God, I forgot what it was like working with you guys. Hello everybody, and welcome to our show with Zoe, Lamarn and Hannah and Um, we're just so excited today we have the most wonderful director person um all around great guy. Jake kasd in here directed our pilot and many episodes of our show and also had a huge hand in creating the tone, developing the show just from the ground up. So we're very stoked, a very stoked. So good to see you guys. Been how's your how's your how's your time away from the show? Be treating you? It's been a nightmare? Are you kidding me? I will say. Um. Jake has directed written so many things that everybody loves, UM from Zero Effect to Freaks and Geeks to Jumanji movies, Um Bad Teacher, so many great things that I love. And I think, yeah, and I think that. The question that's been burning the fans for ever at this point is will Jumanji return that lovely repairman? Make another came? And if so, are you in? It's the question we get all the time and we're so satisfying that when we would show that movie and Lamaren would walk to Lamarne in that second of the two Jumanji movies, and we would show the movie and in the theater there was always like an audible excited reaction, like a little audience freak out when la Moore would walk in right at the end. It was one of my favorite things. It's always the reaction when the walks always usually even when it was it was a bold but strategic move. You knew you'd get a reaction if you entered the end of the movie with no pants, and it worked exactly. I've since been canceled. But they were wearing a very long shirt. It um so so Jake you you were you were born in Michigan? Yes, that's true. Is that a comedy town? Is that a big comedy It's a great town. I left Detroit area. We moved away when I was like a baby. So um pre comedy. Yeah. So where'd you get your comedy roots from? Where? It? Is it a family? I will say this? Okay, So the Kastan's have played a huge role in my career because I actually did my first movie with Jake's dad, Lawrence Kasin, who's a legendary writer, director who can do is one of those people that can do everything. And I also went to high school with his super talented brother John, and just love the Kasin family. So I mean, I feel like maybe you got a little comedy from the family from me. That's right. Zoe has an amazing long history with with with our whole family. That is a great and I love you too, yeah, yeah, love him all love him. Yeah, Zoe went to high school with my brother John, and that was how the very first way that we met. And then, um, yes, so we we have this great sort of long long road together. But I think that I pulled into the lead on the Zoe race when we did this show together for many many years. Yeah, yeah, I will say that we have done the most extensively. But so we I think one thing we were all curious about is like, so I was the first cast member to get involved with the show, but like, what was it like before we were all what happened? Like how did you meet Liz? Yeah? Sure, how you can get involved? Yeah, absolutely, I can tell you my um my journey with it started, um just a few weeks before yours Um, you know, it was a wild thing where, Um, Liz, who I had met once or twice before, and I was a big fan of hers because she'd written some scripts that I'd read and loved, and I just thought she was such a funny writer. We didn't know each other well. Um, she wrote me a note and said, would you think about directing this pilot. I had been a bunch of years since I had directed a pilot, so it was kind of a little bit out of nowhere and which we had some bunch of common people. She sent it along and I read it and just immediately said, yeah, absolutely. And it was actually one of these things where I had sort of almost decided that before reading it, like there was just I've had this happened once or twice, very lucky, fortunate thing where somebody calls and says, do you want to do something, and you just know that it's the right thing to do. And Um, hearing from Lez about the pilot that would become New Girl was definitely one of those moments where I just sort of had this instinct like this is gonna be great. She's so funny and from the description I could tell that I was gonna love it and then I read it and I just thought it was brilliant, you know, um, And it was kind of the way that can be sometimes with what we you know, if you if you're lucky enough to do this, sometimes you you make a decision like that quickly and it ends up being like a giant thing in your life. And for me, freaking gigs or something like that, where it was similar like Judd called up and said, do you want to do this? And by the time I got off the phone, I was like, I think I want to do this. And I had never worked in TV before, you know, I hadn't read it yet. And like about a little more than ten years later, it was a very similar thing with Lizer. I just sort of had this feeling like this is going to be something great. I don't know if you remember this, but you and I had lunch in Chicago and talked about freaks and geeks. Do you remember? Yes? I do remember. That's right. This was I dropped out of college to assume my dream of being an actor. But you came and you were like, do you want to? I really would love it if you auditioned for this. Um. Oh right, I was going to college at Northwestern. I was in the theater program and I had basically like just started and you were like, hey, I've got this you know pilot, like you know it's going to be a TV show obviously, and I was like, I just started school up to audition, but I was like, I just I got to see what this school things like. And then of course, like six months later, I dropped out. I remember. I was like, I remember that vividly and I haven't thought about it in really a long time, but that's right. That was another like turn in the in the road for Freaks and Geeks. Yeah. Yeah, it's usually opposite from me director to sit me down and say, please don't read from my thing and I think it all lunch. I would like to make sure you part of this project. Yeah, I mean, I I don't remember which UM role I would have been up for in Freaks and Geek. It was probably like Freaks and Geeks, it was probably like all the female right where they were like a lot of female roles in that show. Yes, I'm I'm trying to remember it. Uh, I'm not sure. I mean, we were casting that show in a in a um sort of unusual way. That's right where we were kind of um, it was we were open to the possibility of expanding and kind of shaping the cast um around beyond sort of what was in the script. So there was there was who we found. We were kind of building it to the ensemble, although it ended up being very close to what was in the script. But you know, with some big kind of casting swings on that show where it's sort of changed the shape or what it was, and in a lot of ways to some degree, we extended that approach into what we were doing when we were casting New Girl, which was a really kind of comprehensive and intense, uh process. But you know, similarly like, um, you know, it's one of the great casts that I've ever been fortunate enough to work with, and we went through yeah, yeah, that's what I meant, and one of the you know, it was it was one of those situations where like we we worked really it was a big process, but it really worked out. You know. I feel like when I talked to actors, especially over the past ten years, I would say of them in this town, go, you know, I was almost in the cast of New Girl, And it makes me feel like a single person in this Town read the show and Jake and I know because you were like I as soon as I got cast, I was like, oh, I really really want to be a part of the casting process because I just know how it is to come in for shows or movies and it's it's hard, and you it's I was like, you know, I can kind of be someone that maybe can make people feel comfortable. Also we can see chemistry. So as soon as I was cast, even though against my lawyer's advice, was like, well, the deal is not done. You can't do work before your deals then, and I was like, I know, but I'm just gonna do it. I'm a rebel. I'm a rebel. So I joined the casting process and we saw a lot everybody in Hollywood. Yeah, we we We saw a lot of people. And I think, you know, part of it is that it was the you know, the whole thing. One of the parts of it that's so interesting is just like the whole world of television has changed so dramatically in the ten years since we were doing this, and you know, it was sort of towards the end of an era where the conventional pilot season worked the way that it had for like the whole history of TV, you know, up until quite recently where um, you know, you developed the whole television development cycle is very kind of rigid and like you sell scripts during one period and then they decide what they're going to pick up, and then everybody makes the pilots exactly the same time, and there's this formal you know, kind of like pilot season casting period where everybody is running around from audition to audition. I don't know, I mean it still exists in some form or at least did you know before the the current world that we're living in, but not nearly too in the way that it did then. And so it was sort of towards the end of the period where like within it the group of people who are out and auditioning and really getting out there. You know, they're going from thing to thing to thing, and you're seeing really a lot of people and we and we did see a lot of a lot of people, although you know, and like you say, I mean, Zoe was before any of that even started. Zoe was in and uh gonna play this part, and that was kind of the you know, first definitive um like decision about like what you know that that's a lot of the show. It starts to get become visible to us, like from that moment, Okay, it's Jerry dochn was this character, and we're going to surround her with, you know, brilliant people. When I knew that you were directing the UM pilot, that was like the deal stealer because I was like, this is a hilarious script. I didn't. I knew Liz, like I didn't know her personally. I had read a play of hers years before and stuff, and I knew she was really talented, and I had friends that were friends with her and could vouch for her. But like, you know, I was like, but the tone of the show, like everything kind of rest on the directing and setting the tone for the show because I've never done, you know, more than like an episode or two of TV or you know, I did. I've done like I did like a few episode arcs. But I was never like a series regular. You never held out on a show like this, which is a whole different, the whole other thing. When I knew you were directing it, I was like, I am in that's nice, that's that's true. That's nice to hear. I mean, it was it was you know, I think when you're especially transitioning from you were making you were working a lot in the period leading up to that already you've been making all those movies. But it is a very different sort of it's just a different process. I mean, there's a lot related about it, but you know, there are many aspects of it series television that are really different. And it was it was you know, I loved being able to roll into that with you. Well, just it was such a gift to be able to like make something where you know, you have you and then other real, really amazing directors that you know, came on this show. And I really think that you being on like attracted a lot of other really good directors as well. But but the fact that we were doing television. You have to make a show every week no matter what, like you have, we have to and and there's something so nice about that. Like on a movie, there's like something kind of drawn out about it, and it's like with television, you know, you're just gonna make it no matter what, and it's kind of exciting. Yeah. Yeah, And you know, the I always feel like that when you're doing the pilot, you know, you're as that if you're directing a pilot, you're you have a lot of opportunity to kind of help build with the thing is going to be and sort of getting there, and uh, you know, I always it's always feel like directing a pilot is like being uh, member of a band. It's like being the bass player in a in a really good band if you're lucky, you know, and where you're trying to position everybody else to not only be great, but to set up something that they can keep doing for a really long time. You know. That's the cast, it's whoever you're working with behind the camera, the actual camera, all of that, you know. Um, And and as you the further you go, I mean, it starts with the pilot obviously, but by the time you you know, sort of get into series, it's just incredibly clear that the whole thing is completely contingent on the writing and the cast and there's and you can and we did bring in great directors, and we had great directors. It's not to diminish that fantastic contribution that a bunch of bo came in helping us figure it out. Um. And then you know, throughout the series we had great people Um, but you're it's a different kind of building right at the very beginning because you have nothing to refer back to, so you're doing it for the very first time. And then you know, as it continues, Uh, you're, you're it really everybody else sort of assumes the what it is in a great way. And that's like really satisfying and fun to see, you know. Um, and we did between this incredible cast we had and just such a funny group of writers like that. It was like week after week and hard working and like constantly punching and how can we make it funnier? And you do the table rate and it's just like joke for joke like they were. It's just like a stealth team of brilliant comedy people that were working on that show. So it's just a lot of firepower. It was really like an exciting, cool thing to be part of. Yeah, questions, so let's keep it. I want to stick to the beginning, or stay on the beginning for a little bit. I know when you talk about the beginning of the process, how how fun it could be. You're seeing a bunch of actors come in, the writers are writing like dope shit, Like what what's the most frustrating part about that process though? In the in you know, start coming from the beginning, what what makes you pull your hair out? For those at home who don't know about this process, I know it's it's not all fun, it's not all games. I just want to add to what you're saying, Lamar in that like directing a pilot, it is probably like like other like directing episodes like is obviously uh, you know it's a feat. But directing the pilot, because you're establishing the tone, it's a really really important job. Every decision is a big decision. Yeah, And and there's you know, I guess I don't know if like pull your hair out is I guess what I would say is, you know, there's famously in making TV and making TV pilots, there there can be a lot of voices outside of the simple creative process of it. There's you know, um, the classic thing, and I made a movie about this called the TV Set, is you know that there's sort of like all of this external kind of like executive pressure on something that can mess it up, either with you're not allowed to hire the actor, or the notes are not good, or there's something about it. That makes it really fresh and different. But that makes people nervous and so they want you to change that thing or you know, there are a lot of ways that a pilot can get messed up. And well, we really did not have a lot of that kind of interference here. I have to give credit to those people. It was not a they loved it from early on. People loved the script. They got increasingly excited as we would bring them, bring you guys to them. You know, they would just look at the cast and I mean just they got pretty psyched. And so well was you know, certainly went through a development process and had notes and wrote many different drafts. Like all pilots, Um, we didn't have a lot of interference on this. All of that said, you're always kind of worried about it, Like I'm I just go through everything like in this sort of defensive stance. It's like you're going to get that football to the end zone, and the end zone is getting picked up sport football and the sport you're talking about for those for those about this thing I put in my shoes, Yeah exactly. Yeah, Yeah, you know that there's that there's this um wanting to deliver it for everybody you know, and make sure that you that you do the work and get the products so it gets on and then it can have its life. Right. I just wanted to talk about casting for a second because I feel like that's a question I get asked a lot, which is, how did you guys get chosen at the end for this show? And I don't know if I know everybody's story about if you remember first meeting Jake and Max and the more, and we know you've known Zoe for a really long time myself, did you know from the beginning how did it all come together? That chemistry? We knew that, Um, well, we knew that we as I say that, like the very first conversations I was having with Liz about this, we're, um, you know about process? How's this going to work? Um? And the very first thing we and that I do remember like saying, because I had sort of picked up from um Chad Apatow working on the Freaks pilot, his thing was always everybody has to read. You just always building a show like this, if you need an ensemble to work together this way, it was like, everybody has to read. And Liz was like, yeah, absolutely, that totally makes sense. We'll get into it. And she said there's one thing, though, which is we think we should approach Zoe. And I said, well, I know Zoe. I love Zoe. That's obvious. No breaker, Yeah, she'll do it. That would be different. And then she hopped in. And from that point, and Zoe had done all this work, we knew she was a known quantity. We knew that we would build the show around her. And from the time that Zoe pop got into it, like as she's describing, she was then part of a lot of the casting we would do. Sometimes we do sessions, um, you know, without Zoe and then bring back people to read with Zoe. Sometimes she was just there. I mean she was. My memory is you were really in it with us. Was there every day, were doing it every day I would volunteer to I'd be like, you guys, eve me, I just come in like because I just really like wanted like in case somebody would be maybe like on the off chance that somebody would be like maybe not good in a pre read or something, but good with me. I was like, well, let's just like you had a great instinct that this is critically important because in some ways as I like I was saying, it ends up kind of being more important than like the longevity is what you're looking for, right, It's like more important than what just what happens in the pilot um because you know, you can have somebody have three scenes in a pilot, but you're gonna be working with them if all goes well for years, you know. So like with with Hannah, for example, that's the thing, like like CC's big in the pilot, great in the pilot, but in the rest of it, but by a few weeks later, she's much more dimensional and expanded and has story, and we're off on right, And so there's a little bit of like what you're trying to find is beyond what is just in these thirty pages, what does it seem like it's going to be in the you know, long term. The other thing about that I would say was key to this and uh so impressive to me was Liz realized quickly that, you know, in order to really feel the scope of that, we would need to keep updating the sides what people are reading, well beyond what's in the script, because you can't necessarily make a decision of that magnitude from based on you know, two scenes, and also you've heard the same two scenes four times, They're just not as funny to you anymore. It's like, you know what the jokes are, and you know, so you might do those two scenes, but we're also gonna do to other scenes. She would go home pretty much every and right and craft and punch up sides with um you know, Brett Baron, day Finkel, who were running the show with her, who are also brilliant guys, and who are around on the pilot as well, which is a little bit unusual to have more writers on the pilot than just that. It was a very fortunate thing, you know. She just had the They had this sort of great working thing that really made each other laugh, and so we always had a new side. So it was like new stuff every day, you know, which was kind of a cool thing. And then you start to discover what people are capable of. Um, I think in terms of everybody else, you know, my memory and she would have to confirm this, but my memory, I know that Liz and Jake had worked together before they had that. She she was aware of his brilliance and had I think had him in mind as a possibility for that character, and he came in and owned it right away. I got several emails from friends like Max Winkler and Jeremy Conner director friends of mine, recommending Jake, So I was like, Okay, this guy is probably going to be pretty good. Yeah. It was a well known secret at that point. He was. He was somebody that that people knew was super funny and talented and versatile and and and and he and Liz had had worked on something together. Yeah, they worked done in her Yeah. Yeah, he was in No Strings Attached. Yeah, yeah, directed, which was the first thing I'd ever read of was Oh my god, that was such a funny script. It was at that time called funk Buddies because everybody was in that movie. The titles of so many great people in that movie, the original titles. She always said, so Liz, when she writes the first I mean, I don't know whether it still stands, but like when um, when I signed on to New Girl, it was called Chicks and Dicks, and she'd written this script um that ended up being called No Strings Attached, and it was originally called funck Buddies. So she kind of reading what wasn't it called Sluts No it wasn't that was different play, but yeah, that was a documentary. I'd have to go back and look at the title. But but I remember I actually didn't connect it that I had read a play of hers until I somehow was searching her name and then I found this play that my friend had sent me because we're going to do a reading of it. I guess it never ended up happening happening, but I had remembered reading it and how funny it was. Yeah, Zoey's origin story, Jake's origin story, keep going. Max. I was at this in these very first weeks. I was in New York working instantly else and I was not in those very first casting sessions. But my memory of it is that like the first week they had located, they had sort of been knocked out by Jake and Max, and I was watching him remote and I think he just kind of came in. I mean, Max was somebody who you know, had been around a little bit and had done other pilots. People were aware of his work and how funny he was. He'd never had anything quite like this, obviously, but it was he came and it was a similar thing where I was like he read Schmidt and it was like, oh yeah, that's it. These two are the first two guys. It's like this is this these three or where it starts? And um, we had we we kind of knew that really early. Um, and then you thought we need two vjst Listen. We s rounded out by making sure we have a Canadian one and that's right, all of North America represented in the VJA world here. Fox is really adamant that we got I am. And then basically, as is often the case when that happens, and that's now we're talking about. But ironically, it was a very similar thing with Freaks and Geeks, which was like half the cast fell into place like in ten days, and then we spent three months figuring out who is going to play the rest of the parts. Um. And so similarly, uh, you know, we started to have a the core and needed to fill it out and figure out who the rest of it everybody was going to be. And it just became more um, you know, just we saw a ton of people to see remaining remaining characters. I will say, Hannah, I remember that like with you, you and I remember being like that. Hannah is just the most like somebody who would be my friend and like that comfort level, you know what I mean, like you were just like I had the most ease with you. I feel like that played a huge part. I mean, other than your performance was great, but I remember that are ease together played a big part in your casting for sure. And then and there's I think that there's also just this thing when you've been you know, sometimes when you've been looking for who's going to play a character for a long time, you've been in those rooms for days and days, and it can get you know, exhausting, or you can think like, is there something wrong with the scenes or the character? What do we meant? What can we do differently? Is that? Like why is this so hard? And then somebody comes in and you're just like, oh, it's not hard anymore. It's that person. But you know, it's just like a kind of a bell rings and you all they walk out, and you all look at each other and you're like, uh, look at that she's here, you know, and I think that that it um that can happen, and it can, and it's really exciting when it does, you know, And I do think that that's it. Sometimes they just don't walk in right at the very beginning, and it takes a minute for for the right people to walk in and and and Lamourne was part of that early process as well in a big way, and was, um, you know, some that we loved from the moment we met him. And another one of those things where it was, uh, you know, oh yeah, this guy's really really funny. Um, and went through quite a bit of process. You could probably remember it better than I do, but but basically, yeah, well, how would you go ahead? He took a show with Heather Locklear. Explain how you took a show with Heather lock Well we can take it from that well, because because the process and I've talked about this before, but it's it's the I want to say. This is the first time I'm talking about this with with what with one of the decision makers, you know what I mean. Um, So, I it was my first pilot season. I was reading for a lot of stuff and testing and so I had the tests around the exact same time. But I remember being at the at the callback, just the general callback for the for for CBS, the CBS show, the assistance starting Heather Lucklear and t J Millet. So I said, I was like they had said, hey, we hear you're testing for that show has crashed and that's billed out a decade ago. Um, And so I they had said when I was at the audition, they said, hey, we hear you're testing for a New Girl tomorrow. I said, yeah, they go, can we ask you to tank that audition? And I was like, I don't know how this process works, but whoever makes me an offer, it's like, never makes me an offer. And so I remember us going back going, hey, this network is gonna make him an offer. Hey New Girl, can you guys make him an offer? And the answer from casting was no. And so I went to the test anyway, and I decided I'm going to the test no matter what. I want this show. And then a call came in when I was right before you signed the contract, a call came in from my agents saying, hey, don't sign the contract. It's like what what? Why not? They're like, well, you just got an They've made an off of the You can't say no because you can go and read for all these things and and get passed on. So just take the Yeah, well, I mean that makes makes sense and that's just a good you gotta work, And I mean that's a big deal. You know that was with with that character, which was coach at that you know that we were casting in the pilot. Um, I do you think with that character probably the most. We were trying all different ideas of what that What it ended up being with with with Damon was just a little different than what it was in the original script, and so there was some of that exploration and that. UM. I have to say, I can't remember exactly what was leading that Liz would remember better than I do, but there was a you know, there was an evolution to what we were. We were kind of reading people and trying to figure it out and changing the sides and all of that. And I do remember that you the one I remember thinking you were so funny and we there were and then there was some moment I remember where we were kind of in it and then suddenly you were no longer. It was hot gossip in the actors who had been cast circle because I remember talking to Jake and X were like, we we saw him, like we all came in for the tests and we saw you. Weide saw him outside and then he was Yeah. But I do remember this about that part and every time, every time, every time I would come in, be you, Liz, I think you want to say Breton, Dave, Um Zoe, And I remember I remember one time in particular, Um, every time would come in, everyone would be so like, Hey, what's up the board? Heyy ever we were on first name basis, at a first name basis at that point, and I remember I remember taking the offer and sitting in the Fox courtyard and you guys walking to go do the test, and I remember going, hey guys that you guys went hey, boy friend. At this point, well you were like you were probably like I mean like at that point, they were like a handful of people coming in for the test. Um. This was like before we even thought about Damon or anything. We had this like handful of people that were all coming into tests and you were my top person, and I was like, I pretty much thought you were going to be cast and then you pulled out like last minute, and I'm like, and obviously worked out otherwise we would. Well that's why it was really nice that. Yeah, yeah, it's true, I mean, it made it said that. I mean, yeah, the short version of that was, you know, the damon somebody we knew and loved, but thought he wasn't available because he was on a different show. And then we sort of got the word that we could. It sounded like that show probably wasn't gonna come back, and so we could. He was like the last one in like right as we were about to start. It was like, oh, maybe that could work. Maybe the you know, his other show isn't a problem. Then we go, We did the pilot with him, a great time with him. Then his other show does get picked up, so he can't do Girl. So there was this sort of like, oh, now what do we do? But as you say, in a way it there was something about the way this whole messy thing had worked out that kind of worked for us because when when we had that sort of shocking panic moment we've made this pilot that we love and we don't really what it been. Now one of the guys is not gonna do it, it was like, well who should be? And we all knew immediately like, well, mornings hilarious, dude, you know, was right, maybe we can. Maybe his other pilot didn't happen, and lucky for us, it haddn't and we were able to, you know, get you to join in this other character, like what you guys had something to do with that pilot not happening. I don't know really, you guys, guys, I don't think we were working behind like Heather, Heather, you don't want to do something person Welcole too. So now that we've gone through the cast, I feel like when we've talked about the pilot together Lamar and Zoe and I the pilot, we keep saying like it feels like a movie. It feels like a standalone movie and not like a pilot episode of television. Um, was that like intentional approach that you had when you kind of put it together, because it feels so different than any other pilot I've ever seen. I've seen pilots that tried to be it afterwards I've seen Yeah, you know, I think that that's always my hope for it is that it feels like a little movie and that we shoot it in a way that feels sort of like it's in a movie language. Um. You know, I think part of it is that, um, there are conventions to what uh, single camera comedies look like a lot of the time, and particularly then there have been so many more of them in the time since I mean we're already well into that sort of you know, there were a lot then, but there have been a lot more now. Um I think you know, so part it's just we're in a different kind of vernacular just and and I was very conscious of, you know, shooting it in a way that was more like how you should a movie. And and then I think the other part of it is, you know, it's obviously who you're working with, the photographer, the design, it's like a lot of there are a lot of decisions you can make along the way. But it was very much how we approached freaks and geeks, you know, which is even though it's a comedy, we're gonna shoot try to give it the scope that you would if you were making like a movie about this. Um. Yeah, Now that process from um script to page a lot of changes. Did you did you see yourself adjusting things? What what did it start out as and then what ended up being on the screen. You know, I really do think of it as it was one of the really great collaborative experiences I've ever had, um with with with Liz and Bretton, Dave and with you guys. It was just like this very sort of fluid thing where everybody's trying to figure it out together and working towards the same thing. Um, you know, I think the script evolved over time partly because, you know, really because Liz has this sort of relentless joke thing of just like she's it's gonna be funny. Like she's as kind of like talented and hardcore about that as anybody I know, like of just like she's gonna make sure it's funny, and she's really funny, and she if the joke isn't land, it's going to be a better joke. And if she sees something that someone else, she's never practiced about it. She's totally receptive to other people's stuff. She loves it when you guys would riff. She was just she was just like a great um you know, like a kind of intensity that you that to me is is awesome and yeah, and and so that makes it you're just laughing the whole time. But then there's also like, you know, just this whole emotional story to it that we were very kind of like communicative about with with each other, with um, with with you know, you guys doing the scene. So I'm sure that it did sort of like evolved as we were doing it, But my memory of it is that it was just this very kind of like we're all in it together and let's figure this thing out. You know. Katherine Pope was the other executive producer at that stage, brilliant UM person who was kind and the other you know voice in all of those conversations in the office, very supportive. I just remember she was like, um, having a baby. She was she was texting is from like her c section or something. It was like one of those things where I was like, this woman is the most dedicated producer I've ever seen. She wasn't like I'm going to take a day off because you know, having a baby. She was like we were getting emails from her. She was having two babies this show. There was something I wanted to mention UM that I thought was so smart, and I know that it was kind of related to something you were saying earlier, but about kind of you know, knowing you know that you wanted the show to get picked up, which is obviously everybody's goal, but having been through it before, UM, you you had an idea of what uh you know, the network and studio were looking for and that we did do a ton of work, you know, like on I mean on the table read side um before because the table read of a pilot is like one of the most important things to kind of making the studio and the network feel like they you know, feel kind of confident. You know that because sometimes cast gets fired after the pilot table read sometimes, you know, sometimes, yeah, table reads can be a real make or break moment. And I remember we did we did multiple, uh run throughs before we did the table read. I remember we did one you know, with with cast members like people filling in for cast members that we didn't have. We we you know, Liz would be doing Liz and bretton Dave would be doing rewrite. It's we we would be getting we do pre reads. We've got notes. It was really I had my script like marked up to a t and you know, once you get going, you're not doing you know, you're kind of cold reading scripts, you know, once you're in the season. But but that pilot table reads really important. And I thought that was so smart that you really really coached us all through. But that yeah, that was that You're right, that that's can be a critical moment and you know, we knew that, like the cast was just rock in. I mean, that was I'm confusing. It was clearly a great cast that but it's certainly a moment where something can go screwy if for the wrong reasons, where something doesn't land in a table read or something it feels like some element of the story isn't doing anyone, or something reads harsh instead of funny, and it's like there's any number of million things can happen at a table read that can just sort of make people comfortable right as you're like a week before you start, and which is like the worst moment to reactive to. It's bad for confidence, it's a bad sort of creative place. So the way you can sort of avoid those kind of problems is to just make sure that the table read goes really well. And we knew that that would be important. We also knew that it wouldn't be that hard here, but you know, because it was really funny and you guys were great and we and you know, usually it goes well if those things are in place. It's just um, you never know. So yeah, we're being you know, super make sure that it's buttoned down. I have a really vivid memory of the I think was only there for a day or two of the pilot, but I had to do that phone call um where Jess as on the other side saying, you know, two boobs Johnson, and I was just like, I'm sure little more felt the same way where you kind of show up and your whole thing is like, don't get fired, get fired, lookt fired. And they needed someone to read the other side of the phone call and to be Jess and I don't know what happened because we were on like it's like a little propped up set really really quick and there's a million other things going on, and so you did it, Jake and I and I was like, this is so terrifying that this man who has so much control over this moment is now and I'm hearing you go like Rebecca Johnson, two boobs Johnson, and I'm trying to say in this call for people listening. Sometimes sometimes you're off doing something else for some reason and you can't be there for off camera if you like two phone call at different times exactly, and yeah in the and so on some lucky occasions you get me on the other side. Though I do remember that we shot a scene that earlier there would have been someone better for that Johnson, two boots Johnson. It's a very clear traumatic memory. But then it was funny about it is that you guys brought me back. You're lucky to have Well. I was just like, he's so close, and he's watching everything so closely. What if I say it wrong? And I got for me in terms of my own fears, that trauma of your performance was brilliant. But I was That's what I was looking for it. I was trying to get to how was that you were? You were? You made a great justice. It was really my job that was in jeopard The thing that was funny though, is that we shot a scene that never made it into the pilot where you guys dressed me up as a gigantic bird at a photo shoot and then brought in a like a a vicious bird. Yeah, a condor or, I don't know what it was. And they said quiet on set, nobody speak, yeah, vulture and it will attack you. And but I had to speak. And it was the side of the phone call and they needed someone to read the other side, and Jake, I will say, you did not read the other side. Of the phone call. Then you're like, I don't want to be attacked by a bird, is what I thought. It sounds like anyone who spoke could be attacked. It sounds like Jake is involved in a lot of hazing, okay, because he made you dress up like a bird, brought in a goddamn vulture and didn't use it. For me, there was there was a moment I think what you dumped yogurt, yes, at some point, and I don't think that got you yogurt yogurt or something, your bathing in yogurt, because it was I was I there for That was the episode one of two right where yeah, I was so excited about it. I was like, oh, this is gonna looks so great. Oh yeah, crush, I was gonna kill Remember the I do remember the thing was with the vulture. That was the thing I always remember about that was and I remember the scene was funny and it was just you know, things get shorter as you're cutting them down. You just start you know, you want the tightest possible version. For some reason that that fell away, But I remember with that with that um seeing we were in the cutting room and we're looking at it and it's all kind of working in a fun way. But then I remember Liz saying like, I'm not sure we should have a vulture in our pilot. It seems like a bad seems like it seems like something you shouldn't in the moment. In the moment, I thought, this fields like a risky idea. And the director is choosing not to speak during this moment. When he did this yesterday, I feel like he should be scared. That was a moment too as well that I remember vividly that I feel like pretty much helped me get into I know there was a lot of, you know, character traits that would change from my character throughout episodes. Episode I know you guys were trying to find who Winston was, and I forget the episode. I'm not sure if it was the first episode of season two where we're in the bar and Nick is making fruity drinks and and you you were you were yelling out notes to me. You were throwing us sometimes for all those out there and listen to Land, you know, the director, um and writers. Sometimes we'll toss out jokes from behind the camera, and I remember you were trying to get me to behave in a certain way of performanis certain way. And I couldn't hear you, and I remember you going it was great. It was great because it became it because I started getting it. I started understood all you said was uh mor Gurley. I was like, oh oh, but you didn't meet it. And I remember how you met it, and that became my thing forever. Every time I had a drink on the show and behaved this way, and the memes that go around where I'm just kind of looking at Nick and I say, look at me being so naughty. It's it's it's all over the place and I and I just remember going forward from that moment being trying don't just don't just do what's on the page, like be bolder, you know, try other things. The mark of a great director is when they you know, like they say the thing that makes you that opens up your imagination so that you can really inhabit the character and and you know, and I think Jake is just such a great example of a great director who really like allows you to be creative in your own right, but like guides you into the place where you're going to be your best. But yeah, that that's a that's a good example, thank you. With a series in particular, so much of it, like I say, it's just trying to figure out something that can be great in the moment, but also hopefully that you can see signs of how it's going to be great for a long time and that the writers are going to pick up on and go like, oh, yes, there's a whole episode about this. There's a whole you know, we could do a whole story arc about this. And part of that is just inspired by what you're seeing from people, and then part of it's just the million great ideas that people have to come up with in order to just staying these things, you know, just great writing, but the that there's an enormous part of it that's like how do we you know, what are we seeing from what we're what the cast is giving us that shows us what it's going to be. And I do think you know more like you say that it the Winston just got it was. It's definitely like as the series went on, it just got sort of deeper and richer and more interesting and funnier. And this is what he's I mean it was we would always say in editing like oh my God, this is like, you know, as we would get later, he was like, what he's doing here is just so kind of brilliant, and like this has been there and we could have been. It's just like a thrill of watching this emerge as you just sort of like the you know, the character filled out and what you were doing with it just got so funny week after week. Thank you. I had to say this too, because I have that similar moment that Lamouren just shared of something that you said to me that stuck with me so strongly, and I don't think I've ever told you, Jake, so I remember, and I shared this with Zoe and Lamour going in for that final test um, and that's what's kept me through the pilot. I feel like feeling so strong went for the final test and I talked about the thin walls that existed at Fox. So all the girls that had gone in before me had read, and they had read in a very similar um, had made similar choices where it was a lot louder, broader. They had made those comedy choices and it sounded funny, and I was like, Oh, everybody's doing it this way and they've made it this far, and I had a very different approach to c C and UM. I remember walking in the room going, well, maybe I should just do it like these far more seasoned actresses are doing it. Maybe I've been doing it like I don't know, And but I decided at that moment when I sat down with Zoe to do that chemistry read two do the choice that I read CC the way I had been doing it, which was a lot more dead pan and straight ahead. And um, and I will never forget because usually you don't hear anything in the room, No one says anything to you in the room. And I'll never forget you turning back to Catherine, Liz Brett and Dave um and casting and saying that's how it's done. And it was just like this moment, and I it really like impacted me to continue the audition making the same choices and then going to like my first ever set, really and to know that I had made that right choice and that you had kind of given me that the room. It was really powerful. And I don't remember what I had for breakfast this morning, but I remember saying that to me a decade ago. It was really powerful. I think you know that's that's awesome. I love hearing that. I always think it's weird when people want to be stingy with positive feedback, Like it's like like, I if someone's great, tell them they're great. I mean it's hard enough, and especially like with actors coming into audition, it's like, yeah, it's so vulnerable and um and hard and if it's not going to be if they're not vulnerable, then then it's because they've they're sort of beat up by it. And I mean it's just like the process of auditioning is nerve wracking for for people coming in and you yeah, that's why I want to be there because I was like, I know what this is like to go in for things, and like if I I mean, I started working when I was sixteen years old, so I had been on a lot of like devastating auditions in my life, you know, and I wanted everybody to feel comfortable. And it was so nice because it's true, Jake, You're always so positive and make people feel so comfortable, and I think that just like putting people at ease, like it's just like creates that baseline for for just a good experience for everyone and for them to do their best rather than you know, people starting on edge like thinking they're not doing a good job. Nobody's gonna do a better job if they think they're doing you know, or if or if they think is exhausted or something you know, like, which can also happen sometimes because you can get you know, I can, but by the time you've been sitting there for a few hours, you do you can get a little like. But it's sort of on the people who are doing the auditioning to uh you know who are who are reading people to like, you know, stay stay alert, be the other person in the room, like you I like, you still have the basic social responsibility to it. Saying you could get tired listening to the same over and over again for hours on edge. It's weird. I'm I'm not saying that you could, um, but well, I honestly and it's like I said it before, but I would say what is always amazing with that is you can get kind of worn down and you can get in your own head about like, you know, what's going why is this hard? Why am I having trouble focusing? And then someone will walk in and you'll just be like wide awake all of a sudden like it's just that someone will walk in and just open your eyes with what they're doing and it's yeah, exactly and so and that's the cool part. You know, you you got it. Sometimes it's so sometimes it's like what I was describing, where you get you know, Okay, we have we've been casting for a week and we have three of the leads, and then sometimes it's got to earn it a little more. But it's still something really kind of great when people come in and you're just like, h that's that's so exciting. Now obviously, um, I want to switch topics a little bit. Um, we can dive back into this in a in a little while. But obviously working with such an amazing cast, um like you did on New Girl and humble, humble, modest yea, the most yeah, the most humble cast A clear a clear bright spot in your life. But your career said your career took a downward turn, a downward turn, when at the time it's all downhill from here and it and it was you you were obligated to direct create the new Jumanji series. Um, what what was that process like? Going backwards? Uh, it's a lesser cast. Its really sucked going to Hawaii and in Paradise after the Los Angeles centric city Hawaii. Um, yeah, it was a danger pace. There's no question. It was a It was a whole different ballgame. But in many ways. But at the same time, a lot of the basics of what you're doing are actually not that different. I mean, there's there's on a movie like that, there's some stuff that is really different. You know, they're a lot more uh digital ostriches and Jamanji than A New Girl and then and there are other differences to there's this, you know, there's a it's more physical. Wait a minute, you're saying the ulture could have been digital, where we were like what they realized, but we realized the different a vulture, it should be digital. It was a multure by the way. But you know, I think that we you'd be surprised. I mean, you came and did a day with us on Jumanji, and like when you're standing there doing that, I mean, it's different kinds of like that particular thing was like not exactly a hard comedy scene, but it doesn't feel basically, it feels like the same job. Right. It's like if you're doing the same thing it does. It was an interesting prep though. You know, my scene obviously was was the scene was a quick scene. But prior to that, I had to do this thing where I I got was it motion capture or something? Where I stood in this thing with a million stand you that's not something you do. That's noting. That wasn't on New Girl yet. We weren't doing light our scans of everybody and yeah, there's there's U there. You know. It's obviously a lot more physical. There are differences, but the basic thing of what you're doing every day, which is like how do we get the best version of this scene? Working with these people, it's not that different, and that that cast is they're amazing, obviously they're and they're also just like they show up and want to figure it out and do pros and they all have to read to what's important? How audition? How many a the studio? Rock I'm not sure he knows what that is. He's never had a audition in his life. Sitting in Hawaii just there, Yeah, he's yeah, he's living. Was there was there a challenge for you knowing that a prior prior I p of that already existed. Um, having to do with justice having to original original. Yes, I mean there was there was the pressure of UM, that's always with anything that's uh, you know, rebooted or you know, a sequel or um, there's always that concern. Now there are so many things that are there's so many more things that are based on something else than that aren't. UM for better or worse. I don't really think it's for better. But even though I've I've done I had a good experience doing that. You know, I like original stuff. I think, you know, there was the with that. There was how do we I knew that what we were doing was very very different. People would when they ultimately saw it, they would not feel like we were you know, treading. We were doing a lesser version of the original movie. We were just in a different the completely different idea um. And it also had this additional you know, sort of weight of the original movie is one of Robin Williams kind of like state ball movies for a lot of people. And you know, he's like a hero to anybody who works in comedy, and so you kind of want to be honoring the work. So that we were conscious of all of that, and we were conscious that you know, it's the kind of project that when you say, like when people read there's gonna be another Jumanji, they're just immediately suspicious of it. I think that's probably appropriate. You know, like people there's a natural sort of audience skepticism about anything they love coming back in some new form, and so then it's on you to, like, you know, show him why you did it and that they could have a new good time with it. So it's part of the it's part of the thing, you know, why say you did that. Congratulations. Yeah, he's did a great job. Thank you. You should keep doing it. I think you're you're onto something here. Thank you ouclehoo. I actually remember because your brother was a friend of mine in middle and high school. I remember reading an article about you in the l A Times after you directed Zero Effect, and then my and uh my mom had clipped it out and she was like, look um, that's John Casson's brother. And I remember reading the article and you were like, what twin three or something when something like that was you were a baby. Yeah, I was really really young, and I love that movie so much. Thank you so good. I just really made for the first time in a really long time, and I was really young, I think, which seemed crazy to other people then but didn't seem crazy to me. And now in retrospect I think about it, it seems kind of crazy, like it's it's hard to believe sort of you know, um yeah, and it's also it's been a while now, just also started shocking. And that's why I'm telling you. The tenure anniversary of the debut of New Girl was just like what how is that even possible? But I can't believe it. It's partly because it continued for so long. I mean, New Girls the only show it was at the Prior to New Girl, I had never been on a show that had made it to a second season and then and I've been on some shows that I Love You Sason one season, yeah, eighteen episodes, and and I had worked on Undeclared with jud as well, which was yeah, I mean it was and that was another like very short um life, you know, uh, working with jud and Paul on Freaks. There was like this sort of definitive moment for all of us. But it was only eighteen episodes. So when we remember when we got to episode nineteen of New Girl and it was clear that it was like, you know, people were watching and we were going to get to do We're gonna at least get to keep going for a while. Um. I remember thinking like, wow, this is what it's like to make it to the end of an actual networks see sense and know that you're coming back for another one. And it was exciting and you know, so so we got to have the experience continue for for a bunch of years, which I guess is maybe why so shocking that it's been that long since it started. It's also so interesting because that show. Usually after a show is done and off the air, um, and then maybe it lives in reruns, but that's like belongs to a certain era. But now with streaming so many people, Yeah, well I think it's a brand new that's just started. Yeah. That's what I was gonna ask you guys, is have you you must just out in the world have encountered this sort of thing that seems to have happened in the last couple of years, people discovering the show for the first time, like the Netflix. I just feel like there's been this whole new generation. I keep hearing about my friends kids and teenagers and stuff. Have you can you feel it out there? Yeah, definitely. It was almost like, you know, there was like a second where there was like a kind of a little bit of a lull, and then all of a sudden, it was like people coming up, especially when things open back up from the you know, a little bit opening back up from the pandemic and everything, and all of a sudden, all the people who binge watched New Girl coming out of the woodwork. And and it's kind of been nice to hear from everybody because there's it's really such an affectionate fan base of the show. Usually it's people coming up saying like, oh, these feel like my friends, or I watch it with my friends or my partner or you know just as like me or I get all kinds of things. But it's almost always just like very kind and affectionate and not entitled. It's just like such a just a nice group of people who like this show. So it's really and it's interesting too because a lot of people come up to me now and they and they know the show. They clearly binge the show. But when I say maybe I've gotten this maybe ten or fifteen times where someone goes, you're on that show it's Jess, and they remember the song and they remember it's Jess, and they just been the whole thing without looking at the name of the show. That's the other thing that also is different is in the first run of our show, you'd have to wait week to week and then wait all summer for a new season. And now you meet people and they're just like, I just watched all of New Girl this weekend. That's hours of talent, and so I know it intimately. In such it's a very different experience. So I would assume binge seven and it's just totally because it's this big body of work, right, I mean, it's like, and you know, I was, I was, you know, more uh present in the first couple of years. I mean I was. I was very present in the first couple of years, and then I started working on other things simultaneously, and I would be there would be periods where would be away making a movie and then I'd come back, which was you know, like this what it was like a home base kind of for for me. And there's later years, I wasn't there day and day out for you watching the edits and stuff. I was always watching the end. I was always around. I was just not always every Days Presents, but I was always I was always a stone throwaway. But the but you know, I remember like getting to the end of those last couple of seasons, Like the last couple of seasons were simultaneous to the Jumanji, the first Jumanji, and I was away for a big part of that, and I remember I'd still watched the episodes to come out, and it was just like, remember, thinking, these characters have gone so many places. These writers have come up with so many stories, and you know, if every episode as an a story, B story to see story, there's a hundred fifty of them or whatever it is. I mean, that's hundreds of story ideas. And to get to those hundreds of story ideas, there's hundreds that they've discarded, right, Like it's always because it's never the first idea, it's always like, you know, what's the best version of this? So for everybody involved, it's just this massive, you know, seven year body of work. And to think when I when you hear now from these like I've had a bunch of my friends have said, you know, my teenager in the last two weeks watched the entire series or that kind of thing, and you just go like that's so great, like that it's still completely alive for these kids and the like for a new and for older people too, and that like it still feels really like relevant and on and the performances are just as good now as they were then in the writing is just as good now as it wasn't. So it's like, I love it. I just love that it that during this crazy couple of years we've all had, that's been a source of, you know, some entertainment for some people. It's it's great. I wonder two off your watching like binge watching a show that took seven eight years to shoot and you watch it in the weekend. Is it just like a flipbook of aging? Like that's what happens. It's strange because you know he's it's it's seven years of watching these actors who you know, you don't really fully address. Time Y had two pregnancies on the Shadies were born. Yeah, I was like, there are two seasons where I was just like like why is just always holding or laundry basket? So many things happened, and it feels like what's interesting is nobody who's binged the show ever says or comments on that at all. It just feels like this comforting group of friends that they can always just put on and it feels really good, which always feels really nice to hear. Was that intentional that that you kind of made that like that, that the show was kind of evergreen? You know? Now? It didn't feel dated. I mean except when you see Jake Johnson or Nick Miller's phone, Uh it's um which was outdated that even then. Yeah, But was that was it sort of intentional to keep it kind of evergreen? I guess so? I mean, you know, I think we were there was sometimes again you'd have to ask was in Bretton Dave. I think there's a little bit of a you know, um, being you're you're there's always a little bit of a question in your head about like how topical like are the reference is going to seem like two years from now? Are these references gonna just seem really like two years ago? Or is it? You know, like there can be sometimes an awareness of that kind of thing, But I don't know, I don't remember thinking about it that was exactly. I think you're just trying to make it really funny and it's still if if if in the places where where we were successful in that it's like it still is, you know, and it's dense. The other thing with New Girl that is just like I think a sort of under like almost like a technical detail of it is it's just so dense with comedy and stuff. Like each episode is so packed in some ways more than than probably more than any other show I ever worked on, just in terms of like sheer kind of amount of stuff in each twenty one and a half minutes, you know, and so it kind of like you can watch them repeatedly, you know, and discover something new. I've always said that we've got we there's so much comedy in it, and there's so much stuff that we didn't use, so many alts that you could create an entire seven. This is my pitch, and it will happen if you pitch it. Um. Just have someone go in and recut every episode and just switched the jokes and just change the jokes, change to add the things that didn't work, and just have the alternate new Whenever they were adding remember like they added extra episodes to some seasons, and we're like shooting a crazy amount of episodes, like, guys, just take some of that stuff that we already and cut a new episode. Yeah, here's the big question Box was known to actually a new one? You want a new one. I feel like one of the number one questions that we also get asked is if we will ever do a reunion? And who knows if we will, But if we ever did one, would you direct it? Of course? I mean, if you know there would be it's totally like, can you imagine such a thing? I think you know it's if you guys and Liz were doing that. I would love nothing more. Sore's so much fun. Great, great, Okay, you gotta get her. That's why we created this entire podcast to put people on the spot, one by one exactly. Yeah, I said I would do it on that podcast. It's on record. It's on record. It's basically signing a contract sending this to the lawyers. What is next for you? What is next in your life? On What's next? You know, I got a bunch of like a bunch of stuff kinda percolating, and we'll see what actually happens. First, I've spent a lot of this year working on uh the Doogie Kloha MD on Disney Plus, which just started. That's a back in Hawaii. Yeah, we're back in Hawaii and I was we were there. I did the pilot for that, and then uh, Malvin and Worksafan I, you know, were some of the people who produced that series. So um I was working on that sort of first half of this year and Eron is Aaron working on that. We I have some new books on. We had Aaron on it, one of our awesome producers, wonderful and Courtney Kane created it, who had worked with Melvin and I on another show on Fresh Off the Boat, which is a different show that we were doing simultaneous to New Girl and uh you know, fantastic casts. Actually Max Greenfield may or may not stroll through at some point. Watch closely, you may spot him. Uh yeah, So so we um I've been working on that and then since then been sort of have a couple of different series that we're developing and a couple of different movies that we're developing. And we'll see which what happens next, but you know, trying to trying to figure it out and project Roulette with Yeah, a little band exactly, always a little always, a little Jumanji happening in one corner and keeping the keeping the Hawaii and the birds are digital. Yeah, you have to keep at least of your work in Hawaii. And then yeah, that was funny because I was in Hay a lot on the first movie. I was there for months, and we're mostly in the sort of jungle locations on that on Oaha, it's really hard to get to. It's just it's gorgeous, but it's just very physical and you're kind of you know, sweaty and getting eaten by bugs and you're in this beautiful place. We're doing all this good but it was just like really intense. I loved it, of course, but it's intense. And then came back for Doogie and it was like we're at people's houses on the beach and just like beautiful. This is what you go to, the beach, the jungle and it's really chill. Yeah, we love shooting there though. It's amazing, highly recommended. So, Jake, we do this thing in our interviews called Nick's Box. In this segment, we crawled into the back of Nick's closet and pull out the memories that the cast and crew of New Girl have kept hidden for years. So Jake Kasten, what's your favorite memory from your time working on New Girl. You can only pick one, thank god, and the ones you don't pick our dogshit, that's what It's almost like. It could be a standout memory, embarrassing, it could be something anything. It's funny because it's like it's such a big chunk of a life. It's hard to even separate out anecdotally like that, you know it, uh my primary it's not real specific, but my strongest association with it, I think is just being on that set that first like what it felt like to be shooting that show in that first season, like in the pilot in the first season, when it just had this like kind of there was just something like completely electric about it and it and it stayed that way. I was going to say, I'm like, oh my god, yeah, and it must be true. There was just something like like it's not funny, but it is true. It was just like it was like this sort of there was something buzzy about the whole thing of like can you believe we're doing this. It's hard to put a finger on why. It just felt like completely alive and exciting and it was like, you know, nerve racking. It was a little bit of a high wire act and we were always kind of like catching up. But my my primary association was like, this is just the coolest place to be working and like, you know, alive and fun. And then you know, it was intense as well, but it was just that that is my strongest kind of like sensory association with it was this wild experience and that that remained. It's just that it was brand new the first season and it was like, you know, surprising, kind of fun. Yes, indeed, it will see you at the table read for the reunion before hopefully before it's not before, hopefully. Thank you, Jake Casden, Thanks guys, And that was our interview with Jake as in we love him so much and we're so grateful that he's our friend and he joined us for the show you've been listening to Welcome to Our Show, a New Girl recap podcast. Welcome to Our Show is a production of I Heart Radio, hosted by Zoey Deschanel Lamar and Morris and Hannah Simon. Our executive producers Joel Mooney. Our engineer and editor is Daniel Goodman. The Welcome to Our Show theme song was written by Zoey Deschanel, performed and produced by Zoey Deschanel and Pierre de Reader. Follow us on Instagram and Welcome to our Show pot. If you have a question you'd like us to answer, you can email us at Welcome to our Show podcast at gmail dot com. Don't forget to rate, subscribe, and share far and wide. Thanks for listening. We'll hear you next week.