The Ravens LoungeWelcome into Lounge presented by DraftKings. I'm Ryan Mink here with Garrett Downing and we're thrilled to be joined by PFF's head of content. Gordon McGuinness. Does great work at Pro Football Focus and has been for a while doing that great work. So thank you Gordon for joining us. Also, Guinness one of our favorite beers. So I mean an automatic slam dunk for you to come on the pod. We really appreciate it.
Thank you very much for having me. It's very fun to be here.
Yeah, So I want to get into combine talk and your takeaways for the combine. Obviously it's a time when he stocks it up and down. Who for you really stood out and probably mostly raised their stock at the Combine.
I think the two biggest ones who I think have potentially bottled themselves right into the top ten are armand Membou, the offensive tackle from Missouri. I think for him it was a kind of on two fronts. So the combination of him having a tremendous workout, you know, running a four point nine to one at well over three hundred pounds, and that the forty yard dash he had where he was making a whole bunch of noises. He powered his way through there.
Yes, good, that really saw me.
Yeah, that was a great selling point for him. But then the other thing that helps him is that a lot of the guys who, because this is a weird draft class, were by. There are several tackle guard tweiners and Will Campbell, who I think if his arms were a couple inches longer, would be one hundred percent the top offensive tackle off the board. His arm length came in like below the threshold that a lot of NFL teams look for, So that's got a lot of people thinking that he might have to kick inside the guard at the next level. I personally would like to see him get the opportunity to fail at tackle before he moves inside the guard, but some NFL teams I think that'll be you know, that'll be the case for him. So that helps vault Membu all the way up to be the top offensive tackle in the class. And there on the opposite side of the ball, Schmar Stuart having a tremendous one of the most impressive combines I think anyone's ever had at that position, and he's a fascinating player because a lot of the concerns with him are about the production he had at Texas A and M. You didn't have a season with more than two sacks in a single season. All those things for us. He was the fourth highest graded edge defender in the in college football in this draft class against the run last year. So I think that if you are one of the people who wants to point to his role at Texas A and M and how he was potentially limited by scheme, that's probably what I would point to, and I would say, look this guy. It's not apples to apples, but he did prove that he can beat people one on one in the running game, and he's a tremendous athlete. We think he's a player who can go in the top ten.
Very interesting it was Shamar Stewart going into the week in Indianapolis. A lot of the conversation was whether he could be there for the Ravens at big number twenty seven and at Daniel Jeremiah's Matt going into Indianapolis had him as the Ravens pick at twenty seven. Is the likelihood of him being there at the end of the first round? Is that gone? We GISs that dream goodbye.
I think it's pretty slim just because of just how good he was. One of our guys at PFF earlier today I heard him talking about in terms of the relative athletic scores, that there's a website that pushes those out. He now has the best of any edge defender, and the three guys who are right below him and wear above him before he ran all went number one overall. So I don't think he's going to go number one overall, But the odds on him now making it all the way to the late first round feel a lot slimmer. I think the odds on him getting beyond kind of the top fifteen, maybe even the top ten, I've slimmed quite significantly.
I think your point about him about being a really elite run defender gives him a higher floor to some teams. You might be saying, all right, worst case scenario, we're getting a great edge defender here, who even if he doesn't have the sack production that we hope, like, okay, we're going to get that, you know, like he's not gonna just totally bomb, you know, and then the intangibles, the athletic intangibles, gives him this high ceiling. Also, So if you combine a high floor of the high ceiling. That's a prospect that I think teams are going to be willing to game one even though the combine performance for me doesn't change the fact that the biggest red flag with him, right, that doesn't change the production conversation.
No, it definitely doesn't. And then the other thing I would point to is, so we do grading and track and of things. At the Senior Bowl, he had probably the best week of anyone at the Senior Bowl, and he did win one on one regularly. I think he had like a fifty percent pass rush win rate at the Senior Bowl. But even then, that's like it's in a practice setting, you know, it's not the same things as in a game set. And so scouts are going to have to be comfortable with the fact, especially if you're drafting in the top ten. If you're drafting guy in the top ten, you expect him to be a guy who gets after the quarterback regularly, and scout's going to have to be comfortable with their belief that he can develop as a pass rusher in the NFL.
So I want to get your perspective just big picture wise on this draft and Adam Schefter made the point last week at the Combine and looking at the draft class that he's hearing from NFL teams, the difference in the player that you're going to get at ten is really not that different than the player you could get at thirty five, And so that could affect the way the teams approached the draft and looking at the grades from your standpoint, when you at PFF are looking at things obviously very analytically, is that the way that you see it as well, and how could that affect this draft?
I think that's absolutely correct, And the way I would look at it is that there's probably two true kind of blue chet players in this class in Abdull Carter and Travis Hunter. And I think part of the reason why the draft interest took a little bit of time to get going this year is because the quarterbacks aren't the most exciting in this class. I think people aren't sure how good Cam Wore is going to be. There's question marks about Sheer Sanders, and then who the third quarterback is a huge, big question mark for everyone. Similar with wide receivers, right, it's not like we have a year like we had last year where there's like a good number of guys who will hear their names called in the top fifteen at that position. But as we've got through towards the past, the Senior Bowl and through the Combine and now I think a lot of people are realizing that they're still an awful lot of very good players in this draft. They're just maybe not the kind of elite talents that people have been used to at the top of the draft. And where I think that helps a team like the Ravens is picking late in the first round. I think Adam Schefter is absolutely correct, like the window of guys who could start hearing their name called probably as early as twelve or thirteenth. Overall, right the way through to probably the mid second round are all relatively interchangeable, I think.
So. I think when I look at it, like one thing that the Ravens have a great track record of doing to this point, and it's I feel like it's rinse and repeat in a lot of ways every year where the Ravens end up taking somebody in the first round, and then like the commentary from NFL Network or from ESPN is like, man, how did the lee let this guy follow to the Ravens. Of course, the Ravens geting Nate Wiggins, who might be the best cover corner in the draft at the end of the first round, and you could go through, how did Kyle Hamilton follow to the Ravens at number fourteen? So as you look at it, who is it likely that we have? Who are we having that conversation about on draft night that I can't believe this player fell to the Ravens at number twenty seven.
I think the media are already getting ahead of this because pretty much, pretty much pretty much every mock draft I've seen since the combine has Malachi Starks fallen to the Ravens, and it feels like that's the floor we're by. You know, you ran a four point five and Nikim Manwirry, the South Carolina safety, had a far more impressive combine from that perspective, but I feel like Ravens of the type of team who are going to look at the tape from Alachi Starks over the past three years and also like four point five is not a bad time for a safety. You know that it's perfectly acceptable there, and then you look at what he did last year. He spent some time in the slot and all those things as well. I just feel like he is the type of player that if he does fall, because people weren't that impressed with his combine, I think the Ravens will be delighted to see him there at the end of the first round.
And why do you feel that way, Because even going into the combine, Garrett and I were talking about we both are kind of hot on the safeties and we're like, who would you prefer, emn Worry or Starks, And I'm curious to get your perspective on why Youth. It sounds like you think Starks is a better fit.
I think so. I think, probably to go back to something you said earlier around floors and ceilings, I think him and Worry probably almost definitely has the higher ceiling because he's such a good athlete. It's almost like taking an athlete of Kyle Hamilton's size and like super charging the athleticism. And he himself had like a at the podium about how like it would be over for the league if they had the two of those guys in the same second. Malachi Starks was just a guy who just played good football for a good number of years at a big school in Georgia and has the versatility that he can help out in the slot as well as as well as those things. So it's not I guess it's not really an either or. I think it's just that there's a there's a floor of a good player at safety in Malachi Starks that I think the Ravens would be pretty happy with at the end of the first round.
I ask you one more question about Starks is I've heard so far a knock on him is, oh, he didn't make a lot of plays, And I'm just trying to marry that with I mean, I know this past season he only had one interception, but he had six picks over his three years at Georgia, and when I'm watching some of the highlights, I mean, these are ridiculous interceptions. And so I'm just curious, like, do you view him in the Gift PFF grades and coverage, Like is he legit playmaking kind of free safety which will would compliment Kyle Hamilton.
Well, I think he is. And I think sometimes when you see a guy have low interception numbers, it's because offenses avoid him in coverage and they try and do those things. But we've seen him make some tremendous plays. I think there was an interception against Oregon maybe last season that's just like shows tremendous range from the free safety possession where he tracks the ball down. So either it was either an interception or it was a pass breakup, but there was a play where he just showed tremendous range there, and I think he absolutely has the capability if he was to go into the Ravens secondary, he wouldn't be the first player that you know, teams are looking to avoid right away, so that would probably increase his potential to make some plays.
So I want to go back to pass rusher. We talked about Shamar Stewart, who's probably gonna be gone, But are there players in that mix at the end of the first round who could be there for the Ravens who you think would make sense?
I think so. I think the pass rushers and the edge of defenders in this class. To go back to the thing we said earlier about the caliber of this draft class, there's over twenty edge defenders in this draft class who I look at and I'm like, I can see a path to a pretty successful NFL career for those guys. Feels like a really, really deep class the two guys who I think are very much in play for the Ravens at the end of the first round. Nick Gorton from Texas A and M was more productive as a pass rusher than Schmar Stewart and can play with his hand in the ground but also standing up. And Donovan Israaku, the guy from Boston College. Now he might have played himself out of that range with a really impressive combine. He's just a guy who is really quick off the edge and has that kind of quick twitch that would potentially give the Ravens an elite pass rusher there. And for me, this is a draft class where by there's an opportunity for the Ravens to potentially double dip at the position, and we've seen them do that over the past few years, whereby they take two guys at the same position in the first four rounds, and I think this is a class that sets up there. And you know, when you look at edge defender for the Ravens, it's not like they don't have good players there. Both Kyle van and I and a Daffi alway have performed well for them, but they have lacked that kind of true difference maker off the edge since the trerell Sugs days, and I think if you look at what they did that wide receiver were by the invested first ro Impeck over a couple of years, and they kept going back to the well till they really hit on Zay Flowers and then Rashaan Bateman's breakout. This year, I think there's an opportunity there for them to take a couple of swings at the edge this year to try and find a difference maker in that defense.
It's interesting because when you look at it and you say there could be twenty really good players at that position, my head goes to Ravens value. They put a premium on value. There's some other needs, of course that they would like to address. Offensive lines up in the air, depending on what happens with Ronnie Stanley, but there's always other needs you would like to address. We just spent time talking about safety there like twenty really good pass rushers. My head says, like, just wait and take one of the second of the third round and then get a really good player. What do you make of that option and that approach and who could be guys if they end up waiting.
It's definitely possible and I think as well, when you talk about the other needs, it's hard to find a starting left tackle in the third round of the NFL draft. So I think if the Ravens are looking to have to find the starting left tackle in the draft, it's probably a guy like Josh Connorley from Moregan at the end of the first round, like he's the guy who'll probably be in that range if you're then thinking about edge defenders further on in the draft. The guy I really like is David Walker from Arkansas State. Was dominant at the FCS level, had a great Senior Bowl, and he's not doesn't have the longest arms in the world. And the issue for him as a projection to the NFL is obviously the level of talent that he went up against, but was one of the highest grade pass rushers, one of the highest grade run defenders in the FCS last year. And I went through and looked at his tape in the couple of games he had over the last couple of years against FBS schools, and there were schools in the Power four I think it was Oklahoma and Missouri, possibly Oklahoma State, and he didn't have a lot of bad plays on tape in those games. So he's a guy who I think, despite the fact that he went to a small school, I could see him being the type of player who goes in the third or fourth round and winds up having an NFL career whereby he develops into a bit of a star.
All Right, Gordon, hearing me on this one, because this is a theory of mine. Jehad Campbell. Okay, we're talking about linebackers here. He seems like he could be one of those guys where all right, this is a premiere talent playing at a position that's not a premium inside linebacker position, and he just falls down the board. And yeah, the Ravens have Roquan Smith, and I think they like Trent and Simpson and the potential that he has. But like, is he an example of a player that could just be too good to pass up at twenty seven?
I think so. And I think you can even map out where it makes sense from a like a salary cap perspective, in the sense that if you get him and he is a top inside linebacker, you pair him with Rokwan Smith over the course of JA had Campbell's rookie contract, you could effectively have similar to what San Francisco had when they had Fred Warner and Drake Greenlaw in those types of guys, and you don't have to pay JA had Campbell if he is that good for three four years, so you get the opportunity there to be creative with the salary cap. The only potential knock on JA Had Campbell going to the Ravens is that I think he is probably a perfect fit for the Ravens former defensive coordinator in Seattle and they tried to find a couple of different linebackers. I feel like Mike McDonald would love that type of linebacker who he can use as a blitzer and he can use in coverage and all those things as well.
Do you think that he could play on the edge, because I was wondering, you know, on early downs, could Jahad Campbell potentially be an edge guy? But you know, you want to keep a dafe on the field and you want to let Calvin Nou rush the passer. And then in passing situations, all right, Jahide comes inside, he's a blitzer and you have an ultra pass rusher kind of defense.
I do find it interesting that that hasn't been mentioned as much for him, as it has for a guy like Jalen Walker at Georgia, who similar type of player in the sense of good pass rusher. Walker's definitely more of a tweener between a linebacker and an edge defender. I haven't seen much of Jahan Campbell as an edge defender, but given how good he an as an athlete, like if he arrived in Baltimore, I would definitely be open to the idea of seeing what he can do off the edge as well.
So his takeaway from me in last year's draft was like, don't over don't outthink the room. And we were going into last year's draft and it didn't really seem like the Ravens had a huge need at corner. They had other needs that we spent a lot of time talking about. Like it was draft night the Ravens drafted Nate Wiggins, who is one of the best corners in the draft, and like, I don't know that we mentioned him at all the whole process, Like we didn't talk about him, and you're like, what did we miss here?
And well, we thought he wasn't gonna make it. We thought he wasn't gonna get past Philly.
We can we can make that judge. We can have an excuse, We can use that excuse. But like we just talked about a lot of other guys who went well before the Ravens were on the clock, and so so it's like, what we what did we miss there? And like my takeaway was, if there's a great Corner who's available, like the Ravens would absolutely take that guy in the first round. And you look at it this year and it's like Corner is still just as big of a need as it was a year ago. When you consider the fact that you know, Wild Humphrey has got another year in his contract, Brandon Stevens is a free agent. Of course, you have your two starters and Marlin and Nate Wiggins, but you need to have at least three really good corners. So long way of saying, I would not be shocked at all this year if the Ravens go cornerback in the first round. A guy that I really like going into the combine and I wonder if he would be in the mix. This guy that reminds me of of Nate Wings a little bit, and that's Maxwell Harson out of Kentucky who ran a blazing time in the forty, but who could be options in your mind in the first round At cornerback.
I definitely think cornerback's an option, especially if Brandon Stevens doesn't come back. And it also depends I guess what the coaching staff you TJ. Tample long term? Right? Do they think he's a cornerback or a safety cornerback in college? But I think he played more safety last year or in preseason. The guys who I think again, it's similar to the guy you mentioned, Maxwell Hairston, but there's other guys who could be available in that range. Chevron Ravel from easth Carolina, big tall guy who was really athletic when he played there, dealt with an injury this past season. And you've got guys like Jda Barrett Barron from Texas who potentially has played himself out of that spot by having a really nice combine. But there's an awful lot of players in this class who we're going to talk about having really good combines, who so many of the guys had good combines that actually not all of them can sneak their way into the top fifteen now, So he's one of those guys who fits in there. The guy who I think could be interesting as someone who were maybe not thinking about just now, but potentially could be there when the Ravens come on the clocks. Will Johnson from Michigan, Now, I would have never thought. This does feel like there isn't the same hype on him that there was. It's probably a little bit similar to what the Nate Wiggins conversation was like. I remember him being a top ten pick throughout most of last season, and then the closer and closer we got to the draft, all of a sudden he was dropping in those the ranges in the twenties. Where I think he could be a great fit for the Ravens is that he very much as a playmaker. He gambles and almost a little bit like what the Ravens had when Marcus Peters was there, and a guy who will gamble and make a play on the ball and try and take it the other way.
And he dealt with a toe injury and didn't work out at the combine. So he's one of those guys where okay, maybe the buzz not working at the combine just and especially like you're saying, Gordon, these other guy cornerbacks having really good performances maybe he slides a little bit. Twenty seven feels that'd be a heck of a slide for a player that talented, But hey, I wouldn't mind seeing it. Wouldn't mind seeing it. Is are there any corners you know? I've heard Trey Amos as a guy, and it seems like there's some good options there early second round. Are who are some good second or third round corners that you feel like could fit Baltimore's scheme.
I think that's where guys like Darryn Porter, the guy from Iowa State who ran a really fast forty. He's like six foot two as well, so he's a nice tall guy. And then similarly a guy who I've seen this guy mock to them in the first round a good few times, but also have seen him drop right out the first round. But Florida states as Area Thomas, who is young, he's only going to be I don't think he's even twenty one by the time the draft comes round, tall over six foot, good coverage skills over the past couple of seasons. So this is similar to the edge defender class. This is there is a good group of guys that you could get in the second, third round of this class who I think could potentially develop into into starters. And those are the two names that jump to mind.
I want to mention go back to a guy that you mentioned in the cornerback conversation in the first round is Schevon Revel out of East Carolina, and I've seen him come up on a handful of occasions as a potential option for the Ravens in the first round, and I look at the size and it seems like he would be a kind of a prototype of what NFL teams in particular the Ravens are looking for. But then on the flip side, I'm like, smaller school he I think he was in college for six years with the COVID year in there, and so he's like a little bit older. I think it'll be twenty three when the draft happens, so a little bit older. And so I'm like, that doesn't seem to fit what the Ravens have done where they've gone big program younger players under Eric Tacosta. What's your scouting report on Revel and whether he could be a good fit.
I think he absolutely could be a good fit. It's probably the reason why I think there's a good chance he hasn't in the pick is kind of similar to what you mentioned, and I think similar on the offense of line with the guy like Grey's Abel, who I think good player but doesn't necessarily fit, but Revel I think big, physical, really really good in coverage for US, like eighty plus PFF coverage grades over the past two seasons. This season the injury limited him there, but he is the type of player that maybe he's not the first round pick for the Ravens because again, he's not a lock to go in the first round. He's the type of player who potentially he's there in the second round and they can go and find a potential starting cornerback or future starting cornerback in the second round with him.
All right, So Gordon, I'm gonna give you three defensive linemen here, give me your flavor. Okay, who do you like? Derek Harmon, Darius Alexander, and Walter Nolan are Who's the best fit for the Ravens.
For me, it would be Derek Carmon. I think Derek Harmon is a tremendous football player. He's the twenty second ranked player on our Big Board, just now coming off his best season in college football. But a guy who like got a seventeen point six percent pass rush win rate last year, just dominant as a pass rusher. He's not bad against the run either, He's very good against the run. But a tremendous athlete as well. Now the other two guys as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with those guys. But if I was, if I was picking a guy that the Ravens could could add to that defensive line, who could add some disruption up front, Derek Harmon's the guy for me.
And you do you think that a pass rusher or not pass rusher? But you were at the combine. I was at the combine. A lot of talk at the combine about, hey, the Eagles just won the Super Bowl with this great defensive front, defensive line, defensive line, defensive line. Everybody needs to invest that. Just go do what the Eagles did. And it's that simple. Do you think that because of that and in your conversations with teams and looking at your analysis, that there could be more of a priority put on defensive player defensive line front players and those guys could jump up the board.
I definitely think it's possible. Like it as a copycat league, and you know, you think about the fact that what the Eagles were able to do to the Chiefs offense by being so good across the defensive line, especially in the interior, that does give teams a reason to think, Okay, that's the best opportunity we have to to go and beat the Chiefs or to be a dominant team. The other part though, that I think the other reason why it's going to be a heavy, heavy defensive line draft is just that it is such a good group of players at those positions. You know, like last year, I think was an offensive line class where we saw a huge number go in the first round. This year it's kind of the reverse, whereby it's the defensive lineman getting there, getting their revenge and their bounce back there. The Eagles thing is, you know, it's never as simple as that. They obviously get a lot of other things that they have. They were able to get tremendous production out of their two rookie cornerbacks last year. You know, they got Jail and Hurts given the best two performances of the season in the two most important games. But it is a league. It you do went and losing the trenches and if you can go and create that disruption and the Eagle's dead in that and that Super Bowl was dominance upfront.
So well for the flip side of it, too, is just built up a great offensive line. And so the Ravens, as we already mentioned earlier, is Ronnie Stanley could get resigned. They Ravens talked about there's optimism around getting a long term deal done with him, and so if they keep him at left tackled, then that answers a big question this offseason. And then you only have one spot along that offensive line that you potentially need to replace with Matt Pat McCarey. Lee's in free agency. So but if they're looking for offensive linemen in the draft, Simmons out of a highest state has been mentioned as a possible option. He's coming off the knee injury, and it sounded like from what I heard of the combine he's talking about being ready and at his pro day in April, which seemed earlier than a lot of people expected. What do you make of him specifically as a potential option for the Ravens.
I'm interested in Kelvin Banks junior too, and connerly Connery junior. Who you brought up, So, yeah, which guys which, Yeah, of course you asked about the Ohio say guy oh Buck, guy over here, but guy Bill over here. I'm curious of those three guys, which one fits the Ravens the best.
So I'm gonna disappoint you a little bit. Ryan, I think George Simmons would, especially if they if they definitely need a tackle, right if Ronnie Stanley isn't back. Simmons had the best pressure rate among offensive tackles in this draft class, like the lowest pressure rate. Admittedly it was on a smaller sample size before that injury. The injury, though, appears to have checked out, like he himself was saying, you know, I'm gonna be ready to do those things, and normally if that's not true, relatively soon after that you hear people saying, yeah, like he's saying he's ready, but we're not really too sure about that. There wasn't much of that in Indianapolis. There wasn't any real suggestion. I do think though, again, if they need a left tackle, I think Josh Connell is the next best option. Still a good player. It earned a seventy eight point three PFF grade for US last year. Kevin back to junior, probably the best season of all the guys last year. The issue with him is similar to Will Campbell, whereby is he definitely going to be a tackle in the NFL and there is a little bit of debate over whether or not he might actually be best if he kicks inside. So the tough thing for the Ravens if they absolutely need a left tackle or they need an offensive tackle in this draft, is that they're potentially not going to be able to take one of those tweener guys who Hey, if it doesn't work at tackle, we're just going to kick you inside the guard.
All right, last question for me, Gordon, Since you know the Ravens well, you know that we can't have a draft conversation without talking about wide receiver. Okay, so who are some wide receivers? Maybe mid round guys. That's where I could see them taking on, preferably some return experience. Like what wide receivers do you think could be on the Ravens radar?
I think it's fascinating because it's like one of the things I hear people say all the time is like styles win prize fights, and what the Ravens lack at the wide receiver position is like a bit more of a bigger body. If they could get a guy like Jaden Higgins from Iowa State in the second round, potentially the third round, depending on where his draft stock winds up being he's like a six foot four guy who has plenty of speed, can go and be that kind of contested catch receiver for Lamar Jackson. Also, I think it's fascinating to think about a guy like Tess Johnson Morgan who was what one hundred and fifty four pounds at the combine in Indianapolis. He only ran a four or five five or four five one I think it was, but he has the short area of quickness and really impressed at the Senior Bowl. So especially if you're thinking about a guy who maybe is a punt returner first, if he is going to fall down into Day three potentially because he's going to be such a size outlier, like he is one percentile first percent title in terms of size when it comes to wag He's the type of guy who could be there and he was a really really good college receiver. Now he's the size thing is a big deal, and it's why you're not going to hear his name called early in the draft because you are a gambling on a player who historically is not going to succeed in the NFL. But the quality is definitely there.
The other thing I want to get your take on this, You've I've seen you on Twitter mentioned this and is running back and for the Ravens. John Harwall said at the podium at the combine, like, hey, we could take a running back. And then I talked with him at the Combine as well, and in the interview I did with him, he pointed out, people don't think we need a running back. We could take a running back. It's a good running back draft. You've even talked about the possibility of a first round running back, which I would be very surprised at the way Ravens went that route.
Orton going out on the limb, I like it hot take Gordon, all right.
But what do you think of the possibility of the Ravens taking a running back as early as round one?
It's really bad when it's a someone from PFF saying that you should take a running back in the first round. But I feel like I feel like the viewing running backs has changed a little bit, and my personal opinion on them. Now, you come out of this past season and Saquon Barkley and Derek Henry had mendish years, and I think the takeaway for some people is, oh, like running backs are back in vogue, spend high draft picks on running backs, pay running backs. My take is more that they are a force multiplier for offenses. And I think what you saw sae Quon Barkley and Derek Henry do was they went into either a system where there was a great offensive line like Philadelphia or a great running scheme in Baltimore by Lamar Jackson just open things up for you and that supercharged the offense a little bit for the Ravens. So my take on why a running back now first round I think would still be a surprise even to me. But where I could see it being something that they want to address early is they have just seen how good this offense can be when you pay Lamar Jackson with an elite running back in Derreck Henry. Derek Henry, I think is good breaks the mold of running backs. For why you expect his career to take a massive dive as he gets a little bit older, because he seems to keep himself in tremendous condition, and you know it was phenomenal this past season. But it wouldn't surprise me to see them think about, like we want to go in and pair another great running back, should Derek Henry not be here in a couple of years time, and go and find a guy that can pair with Lamar Jackson.
In that sense, it'd be an interesting route to go, no doubt about that. I mean, I think they'll take one. Like they're supposed to have eleven picks as the expectation, so I think you're running back at some point. The question is how high? Of course, last last one for me is one of my favorite things that you guys do a profobile focus. You have the draft simulator so you can go through you and you make make all your mock draft picks and it gives you a little gray next to it. You can pare it. You feel good if you get an A in your in your draft. So like, if you're doing your mock draft for the Ravens, what is the ideal scenario, like what how does this thing play out for the Ravens that you Gordon would give the Ravens an A For me.
Edge one of the edge defenders falling right. It's the two guys I mentioned earlier, Nick Gorton and Donovan Azoraku from Boston College. When I look into one of the things you can do in the mockcraft simulators, you can actually look into who other people are selecting, like who most people select for the Ravens, And it was heading into this past week our Man Membou and Shamar Stuart, who probably are not going to be there at twenty seven now, but then at that point some of the other edge defenders come in. Nick Gorton is the next edge defender up there, So for me it would be going edge defender in the first round as long as one of those guys get there.
Gordon, I love the PFF tools, But see Garrett, he's the guy who just tries to duke the system to get straight a's on your system. So he's like he's taking Malachi Starks in the third It's like, oh a plus, great draft Garrett. So that's the only thing is you gotta find some way to like humble people like Garrett and make sure they don't get straight a's.
Yeah, but that's the the PFF simulator does a good job of not allowing me to do that because those guys are typically gone. It's pretty accurate.
Okay, all right, I'm just saying this guy tries to cheat the system, so you gotta fight away, all right. Well, thank you for joining us, Gordon. This is really a pleasure and awesome insights. So thank you so much. And all of our listeners out there. Make sure you get a Pro Football Focus and check out all their draft covers. They do a great job over there. Thanks so much, Gordon.
Thanks guys, you're listening to the Lounge podcast. We're coming to you from the Sea Geek Studio. We also want to mention our partners with Draft King sports Book. There an official sports betting partner of the Baltimore Ravens Draft King Sportsbook, The Crown is yours. So shout out to Gordon for joining us. Good to talk with him. He's been covering the Ravens in the NFL for a long time and Pro Football Focus does a great job of breaking everything down and just giving some good analytical insight into the draft. So appreciate that perspective from him. So after hearing from him, how much are you tinkering? How much are you already coming off your early indications of which direction the Ravens could go.
No disrespect to Gordon, but I am moving it in.
You're sticking to your guns, sticking to it. Well, you're early. Just mentioned you should tell the listeners which way you're right now?
Okay, all right, I'll put it on the record. You want me to plant my flag, it's what you want me to. Yeah, I mean you're leaning this. This is not an ink of course, I laminated, of course, okay, but I'm going Malachi Starks, that's the way I'm leaning. Yeah, and I and I want to I want it on the record right now that I want listeners to know. I said. I called him first, and I said, you can't lay. Don't even think about it, Garrett, don't even come sniffing around here. He's my guy, and so you're not allowed to. Well you want to see that on the final mop.
You you did make that claim early on, so I give you credit for that. And I told you coming out of Indie, I was really impressed with Malchai Starks when he stepped to the podium. He's smart. His football IQ and everything that you hear and read is through the roof, and it seemed that way just in talking with him, and that was evident. And when we talked about him at the Combine a little bit in episode last week, we talked about him from the standpoint of he's a little bit more of a of a traditional free safety and and so that would pairwell Hamilton.
He can do that.
But in hearing him, man, he talks about his versatility, like versatility was every other word out of his mouth when you talk to him. And so he can play down out the line of scrimmage and in the slaughter, you can play deep. He can do all these different things. So like his versatility, if you like asked him, what's your greatest strength, I think he would point at his versatility. So I'm using that as a as a indication that they could go that direction, Like I think I like Malachi Starks a lot, and so if he ends up being the pick, and it's it's funny and hearing Gordon make the point that like draft analytics are getting ahead of it right now, saying like, of course Malachi Starks falls to the Ravens. I actually saw that as a write up and one of the mock drafts that came out, like of course this guy's going to be there for the Ravens and they end up taking another great player at the end of the first and so it would not surprise me at all if they went that route.
Well, and the funny thing is that, like you know, he didn't. It's being framed that he had this like not great, not very good combine and in some of these drills like the not the forty and some of the bigger vertical and all that stuff, it wasn't great. But like some of the other shuttle drills and things like that, he was the best in the glass. And so the athleticism showed up. It's just Nick emmun Moory overshadowed him with his forty yards dash time and those some of those more high profile testing them.
Yeah, he had a bad forty. He had a he had I should say not a bad he had a His forty wasn't great. It wasn't through the roof. And when Eman Warre, who's a bigger guy, runs this four four forty, then you're like, whoa, this guy is now vaulting up the board. And I think that when you contrast those but I think that that's probably a little bit short sighted and looking at just that, because you're right when you look at some of these other drills, Malachi Starks performed really well from an overall athletic testing story.
I just pulled it up. He was first among among defensive backs. Check it if this defensive axerc the DB's they just are in short shuttle, gauntlet, drill, line drill, whatever the W drill is and whatever the Tarot Austin drill is. You know you can get a drill name there.
Yeah, I know. Shots Ravens assistant coach Austin.
So like first in five other drills, including short shuttle, which is a pretty big one. Yeah, and so he's an athletic dude.
Yeah. Uh so I think that, like in hearing from Gordon and talking to people last week, like I think the Ravens are in a really good spot where they're picking with how this draft is gonna fall. They'll have good options, Like I just don't feel like they're going to be forced into anything, like you could. You could go different ways and feel really good about the pick. And like if one of the pass rushers is there, great, if it Starks or even War, even war is probably gonna be gone. But if it's one of those safeties. Great, if it's a great corner, as I talked about with him, sure sign me up for another great corner.
Well, the biggest dominated there is Ronnie Stanley. Yes, obviously, if if you re sign Ronnie Stanley, which you know the Ravens have said they're very optimistic about getting that accomplished, then you are really in just best player available mood. If you don't get a deal done there, then obviously tackle is a much bigger need. And so that is like, all right, you know, similar a little bit to last last off season. You're like, you got to get an offense tackle in the first two rounds. And so that's part of the beauty of getting a deal done with Ronnie Stanley is man that puts the Ravens really in best player available position. And I do you think it's so funny that the two prospects that mel kiper Junior and Daniel Jeremiah both mocked to the Ravens before the combine both had perfect ten point zero RIS scores, which Gordon mentioned in here. They're like athletic testing scores, both perfect tens that made them the most athletic prospects that their positions since at least nineteen eighty seven since they started doing these RAS scores. So that's Stewart, Shamar Stewart, Nick em Mommorey.
Yeah, so they're both just fly.
Are the two guys projecting the ravens? Like Nope, yeah, sorry, I mean, and we don't know, you know, I do feel like there's to a degree, there's always this bias coming out of recency bias coming out of the combine where you're like, oh, somebody blows up. You're like, oh, man, no way, they're gonna be going top ten. And then like people go back to the tape and things, you know, it settles down a little bit and it evens out to a degree, you know AJ Brown for example, DK Metcalf.
Yeah, those are the two ones that really stand out.
They blew up the combine and then they.
Are both second round picks, second round picks.
So like I think sometimes those things can kind of level out. But we'll see.
Right now, coming out of the combine, there's seventy guys who are first round.
Picks, exactly like everybody's the first round pick.
But everybody's flying on the board. Everyone has a great performance and everyone's talking about like he's not gonna be there anymore, right.
Right, Some of these interviews you did with medium members out there, your first round prospect after this.
Yeah, I appreciate that well. As always, we'd love to se hear here from the listeners. You can email us at the Lounge at Ravens dot NFL dot net. Let us know what questions you have, let us know what you think the Ravens should do in this year's draft. We always love getting your emails. Thanks again to Gordon, and we will be back with you later this week. On Thursday, we've got an interview with Ravens offensive coordinator Todd Monkin. We're really excited about that. We sat down with Todd. I think listeners and viewers are really going to enjoy the conversation with him, share some great insight on the team and the approach this offseason. So you'll be able to catch that right here in the Lounge podcast feed, as well as on our Apple website and our YouTube channel. Thank you so much for listening, and talk with you again on Thursday,
