“Use your spies for every kind of business.” This 2500 year-old stratagem from Sun Zi's Art of War still informs Beijing’s modern day approach towards intelligence gathering. Today China’s espionage industrial complex appears to be taking spying mainstream by blurring the boundaries between spying, interference and influence projection. To explore the shadowy realm of Chinese spycraft, Louisa and Graeme are joined by two top-notch journalists-turned-spy-novelists who have written extensively about Beijing’s army of spooks. Adam Brookes, former China correspondent for the BBC and Chris Uhlmann, chief political correspondent for Channel Nine in Australia unpick how Beijing is redefining espionage for the cyber age.

Pic: Sam Geall

&ldquo;Use your spies for every kind of business.&rdquo; This 2500 year-old stratagem from Sun Zi's Art of War still informs Beijing&rsquo;s modern day approach towards intelligence gathering. Today China&rsquo;s espionage industrial complex appears to be taking spying mainstream by blurring the boundaries between spying, interference and influence projection. To explore the shadowy realm of Chinese spycraft, Louisa and Graeme are joined by two top-notch journalists-turned-spy-novelists who have written extensively about Beijing&rsquo;s army of spooks. Adam Brookes, former China correspondent for the BBC and Chris Uhlmann, chief political correspondent for Channel Nine in Australia unpick how Beijing is redefining espionage for the cyber age.
Pic: Sam Geall

The Little Red Podcast: interviews and chat celebrating China beyond the Beijing beltway. Hosted by Graeme Smith, China studies academic at the Australian National University's Department of Pacific Affairs and Louisa Lim, former China correspondent for the BBC and NPR, now with the Centre for Advancing Journalism at Melbourne University. We are the 2018 winners of podcast of the year in the News & Current Affairs category of the Australian Podcast Awards. Follow us @limlouisa and @GraemeKSmith, and find show notes at www.facebook.com/LittleRedPodcast/

The Little Red Podcast: interviews and chat celeb…

The Little Red Podcast

Awardwinning interviews and chat celebrating China beyond the Beijing beltway. Hosted by Graeme Smith, China studies academic at the Australian National University's Department of Pacific Affairs and Louisa Lim, former China correspondent for the BBC and NPR, now with the Centre for Advancing Journalism at Melbourne University. We are the 2018 winners of podcast of the year in the News & Current Affairs category of the Australian Podcast Awards and we're funded by the Australian National University's Centre on China in the World. Find us on your favourite platforms: we're on Stitcher, Spotify and even Podbean. Follow us @limlouisa and @GraemeKSmith, and find show notes at www.facebook.com/LittleRedPodcast/. Our editor is the Saturday Paper's Andy Hazel (@AndyRickie), background research is by the Asia Society's Julia Bergin (@juliabergin1) and Xu Chong (@ChongXuCheng), our stirring theme tune was composed by Susie Wilkins (@susiewilkins) and our iconic art is courtesy of Seb Danta (@SebDanta).

Awardwinning interviews and chat celebrating China beyond the Beijing beltway. Hosted by Graeme Smith, China studies academic at the Australian National University's Department of Pacific Affairs and Louisa Lim, former China correspondent for the BBC and NPR, now with the Centre for Advancing Journalism at Melbourne University. We are the 2018 winners of podcast of the year in the News &amp; Current Affairs category of the Australian Podcast Awards and we're funded by the Australian National University's Centre on China in the World. Find us on your favourite platforms: we're on Stitcher, Spotify and even Podbean. Follow us @limlouisa and @GraemeKSmith, and find show notes at www.facebook.com/LittleRedPodcast/. Our editor is the Saturday Paper's Andy Hazel (@AndyRickie), background research is by the Asia Society's Julia Bergin (@juliabergin1) and Xu Chong (@ChongXuCheng), our stirring theme tune was composed by Susie Wilkins (@susiewilkins) and our iconic art is courtesy of Seb Danta (@SebDanta).

Stranger than Fiction: China’s Espionage Industrial Complex

Few outside the Chinese wedding banquet circuit have heard of fish maw, a flavourless, unappetising-looking swim bladder found in bony fish. In dried form, a kilo from the right species goes for around $150,000 on the world market, double the price of a kilogram of cocaine. The most prized maw is found in one of the remotest corners of the planet, the Kikori Delta in southern Papua New Guinea, where the once ignored scaly croaker is being targeted on an industrial scale by Chinese fishing companies, transforming the lives of villagers—and the ecosystem. Louisa and Graeme are joined by Jo Chandler, an award-winning journalist and senior lecturer at the University of Melbourne’s Centre for Advancing Journalism who reported on the fish maw trade for Nature magazine. 

Image: c/- Jo Chandler, Veraibari Village 2024.

Jo’s fieldwork was supported in part by the Walkley Foundation Sean Dorney Grant for Pacific Journalism.

Few outside the Chinese wedding banquet circuit have heard of fish maw, a flavourless, unappetising-looking swim bladder found in bony fish. In dried form, a kilo from the right species goes for around $150,000 on the world market, double the price of a kilogram of cocaine. The most prized maw is found in one of the remotest corners of the planet, the Kikori Delta in southern Papua New Guinea, where the once ignored scaly croaker is being targeted on an industrial scale by Chinese fishing companies, transforming the lives of villagers&mdash;and the ecosystem. Louisa and Graeme are joined by Jo Chandler, an award-winning journalist and senior lecturer at the University of Melbourne&rsquo;s Centre for Advancing Journalism who <a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-03259-8">reported</a> on the fish maw trade for Nature magazine.&nbsp;
Image: c/- Jo Chandler, <a href="https://www.edo.org.au/2022/11/28/loss-and-damage-a-png-villages-submission-to-the-un-special-rapporteur-on-human-rights-and-climate-change/">Veraibari Village</a> 2024.
Jo&rsquo;s fieldwork was supported in part by the Walkley Foundation Sean Dorney Grant for Pacific Journalism.

Give me Maw:  China's Craze for the Cocaine of the Seas

Writers from Hong Kong face a Kafkaesque decision in the years since draconian security legislation was imposed on the city: to stay and be subject to intense censorship, or to write freely from exile.  In this episode, Louisa speaks to two award-winning authors who have chosen different paths.  Lau Yeewa is still living in Hong Kong; her book Tongueless, translated by Jennifer Feeley, won the 2024 Pen Translates award.   Gigi Leung Lee-chi is now based in Taiwan, and her book The Melancholy of Trees has just won Taiwan's Golden Tripod award. 

Image: c/- Wikimedia Commons, Empty Bookshelves, 2014

Transcripts available at https://www.thechinastory.org/lrp/

Writers from Hong Kong face a Kafkaesque decision in the years since draconian security legislation was imposed on the city: to stay and be subject to intense censorship, or to write freely from exile.  In this episode, Louisa speaks to two award-winning authors who have chosen different paths.  Lau Yeewa is still living in Hong Kong; her book Tongueless, translated by Jennifer Feeley, won the 2024 Pen Translates award.   Gigi Leung Lee-chi is now based in Taiwan, and her book The Melancholy of Trees has just won Taiwan's Golden Tripod award. 
Image: c/- Wikimedia Commons, Empty Bookshelves, 2014
Transcripts available at https://www.thechinastory.org/lrp/

The Centre of the Vortex:  Survivors' Notes from Hong Kong Writers

In our third episode on pig butchering scams, we explore the origins of the Chinese criminal syndicates that enslave people from at least 66 different countries. We examine the institutions supporting this appalling business, from the Thai military to cryptocurrencies, Burmese border guard forces to special economic zones. And the marks for these scam syndicates are not just Chinese lonely hearts—Western countries are now more profitable to scam than China. To ask what can be done to counter this trade, Graeme is joined by Jason Tower, director of the Burma Program at the United States Institute of Peace, and Greg Raymond from the ANU’s Strategic and Defence Studies Centre.

Image: c/- Stefan Czimmek/DW, KK Park on the Myanmar-Thai border

In our third episode on pig butchering scams, we explore the origins of the Chinese criminal syndicates that enslave people from at least 66 different countries. We examine the institutions supporting this appalling business, from the Thai military to cryptocurrencies, Burmese border guard forces to special economic zones. And the marks for these scam syndicates are not just Chinese lonely hearts—Western countries are now more profitable to scam than China. To ask what can be done to counter this trade, Graeme is joined by Jason Tower, director of the Burma Program at the United States Institute of Peace, and Greg Raymond from the ANU’s Strategic and Defence Studies Centre.
Image: c/- <a href="https://www.dw.com/en/how-chinese-mafia-are-running-a-scam-factory-in-myanmar/a-68113480">Stefan Czimmek/DW</a>, KK Park on the Myanmar-Thai border

Stranger than Fiction: China’s Espionage Industrial Complex

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