Danielle Wood is an Australian economist and the current chair of the Australian Productivity Commission.

Had a lot of fun chatting with Dani about how she's making sense of AI and its implications for policy. We discuss:
whether AI will be more like the internet or the Industrial Revolution,
where in the AI stack the profits will ultimately flow (and why it might not be the model layer),
why diffusion is the "main game" for Australian policymakers,
whether there's a case for government support of data centres,
why the AI jobpocalypse story is too crude (and why humans may still have jobs even under transformative AI),
whether AI will turn out to be a normal or abnormal technology, or both,
and why in either case Australia shouldn't follow the EU in legislating an AI Act.

Sponsors
Effective Altruism Australia: how Australians give to GiveWell's top charities — tax-deductibly, and with 100% pass-through. Until June 30, 2026, EAA is matching new donations up to $300,000. Donate at https://www.eaa.org.au/joewalker.
e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to https://www.e61.in/joewalker.
Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at https://www.vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

Danielle Wood is an Australian economist and the current chair of the Australian Productivity Commission.
Had a lot of fun chatting with Dani about how she's making sense of AI and its implications for policy. We discuss:
<ul>
<li>whether AI will be more like the internet or the Industrial Revolution,</li>
<li>where in the AI stack the profits will ultimately flow (and why it might not be the model layer),</li>
<li>why diffusion is the "main game" for Australian policymakers,</li>
<li>whether there's a case for government support of data centres,</li>
<li>why the AI jobpocalypse story is too crude (and why humans may still have jobs even under transformative AI),</li>
<li>whether AI will turn out to be a normal or abnormal technology, or both,</li>
<li>and why in either case Australia shouldn't follow the EU in legislating an AI Act.</li>
</ul>
Sponsors
<ul>
<li>Effective Altruism Australia: how Australians give to GiveWell's top charities &mdash; tax-deductibly, and with 100% pass-through. Until June 30, 2026, EAA is matching new donations up to $300,000. Donate at <a href="https://www.eaa.org.au/joewalker">https://www.eaa.org.au/joewalker</a>.</li>
<li>e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to <a href="https://www.e61.in/joewalker">https://www.e61.in/joewalker</a>.</li>
<li>Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at <a href="https://www.vanta.com/joe">https://www.vanta.com/joe</a>. Use the discount code "JOE".</li>
</ul>
To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

Well-researched interviews on ideas, technology, and policy. (Plus a recurring series on Australian public policy.)

Well-researched interviews on ideas, technology, and policy. (Plus a recurring series on Australian public policy.)

Joe Walker hosts refreshingly in-depth conversations with founders, scientists, scholars, economists, and public intellectuals.

The Joe Walker Podcast

Joe Walker hosts refreshingly in-depth conversations with founders, scientists, scholars, economists, and public intellectuals.

How Can Australia Get a Piece of the AI Action? — Danielle Wood

This is the second episode in a multi-part series called 'Compute in Australia'. Series announcement here. More episodes to follow over the coming month.

[Recorded 24 August 2026.]

Janet Egan is Senior Fellow and Deputy Director of the Technology and National Security Program at the Center for a New American Security in Washington, DC. Her research focuses on the national security implications of artificial intelligence. She was previously the inaugural director of policy in Australia's Office of Supply Chain Resilience.

I caught up with Janet while she was home in Australia to stress-test the strategic case for building a large compute industry here. We discuss why training compute gives Australia more leverage than inference compute, whether hosting compute could also give us influence over AI safety, why copyright is a red line for the AI companies, and why Australia's window to act is "a month or months, rather than a year". 

Sponsors
e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to https://www.e61.in/joewalker.
Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at https://www.vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

This is the second episode in a multi-part series called 'Compute in Australia'. Series announcement <a href="https://josephnoelwalker.com/compute-in-australia/">here</a>. More episodes to follow over the coming month.
[Recorded 24 August 2026.]
<a href="https://www.cnas.org/people/janet-egan?ref=josephnoelwalker.com">Janet Egan</a> is Senior Fellow and Deputy Director of the Technology and National Security Program at the Center for a New American Security in Washington, DC. Her research focuses on the national security implications of artificial intelligence. She was previously the inaugural director of policy in Australia's Office of Supply Chain Resilience. I caught up with Janet while she was home in Australia to stress-test the strategic case for building a large compute industry here. We discuss why training compute gives Australia more leverage than inference compute, whether hosting compute could also give us influence over AI safety, why copyright is a red line for the AI companies, and why Australia's window to act is "a month or months, rather than a year".&nbsp;
Sponsors
<ul>
<li>e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to <a href="https://www.e61.in/joewalker">https://www.e61.in/joewalker</a>.</li>
<li>Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at <a href="https://www.vanta.com/joe">https://www.vanta.com/joe</a>. Use the discount code "JOE".</li>
</ul>
To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

The Geostrategic Case for Compute in Australia — Janet Egan [Compute Series]

This is the first episode in a multi-part series called 'Compute in Australia'. Series announcement here. More episodes to follow over the coming month.

[Recorded 7 August 2026.]

Dr Andrew Charlton MP is an Australian economist, entrepreneur and politician. As Cabinet Secretary and Australia's Assistant Minister for Science, Technology and the Digital Economy, he is one of the key leaders shaping the Australian government's AI strategy.

Andrew shares his internal model for how AI plays out economically and what a middle power like Australia should do about it. We discuss whether data centres will yield large economic rents, the geostrategic case for a compute industry, and how the government plans to use compute to climb the stack to "sovereign AI".

Sponsors
e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to https://www.e61.in/joewalker.
Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at https://www.vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

This is the first episode in a multi-part series called 'Compute in Australia'. Series announcement <a href="https://josephnoelwalker.com/compute-in-australia/">here</a>. More episodes to follow over the coming month.
[Recorded 7 August 2026.]
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Charlton">Dr Andrew Charlton MP</a> is an Australian economist, entrepreneur and politician. As Cabinet Secretary and Australia's Assistant Minister for Science, Technology and the Digital Economy, he is one of the key leaders shaping the Australian government's AI strategy.
Andrew shares his internal model for how AI plays out economically and what a middle power like Australia should do about it. We discuss whether data centres will yield large economic rents, the geostrategic case for a compute industry, and how the government plans to use compute to climb the stack to "sovereign AI".
Sponsors
<ul>
<li>e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to <a href="https://www.e61.in/joewalker">https://www.e61.in/joewalker</a>.</li>
<li>Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at <a href="https://www.vanta.com/joe">https://www.vanta.com/joe</a>. Use the discount code "JOE".</li>
</ul>
To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

How Can Australia Get a Piece of the AI Action? — Danielle Wood

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