Danielle Wood is an Australian economist and the current chair of the Australian Productivity Commission.

Had a lot of fun chatting with Dani about how she's making sense of AI and its implications for policy. We discuss:
whether AI will be more like the internet or the Industrial Revolution,
where in the AI stack the profits will ultimately flow (and why it might not be the model layer),
why diffusion is the "main game" for Australian policymakers,
whether there's a case for government support of data centres,
why the AI jobpocalypse story is too crude (and why humans may still have jobs even under transformative AI),
whether AI will turn out to be a normal or abnormal technology, or both,
and why in either case Australia shouldn't follow the EU in legislating an AI Act.

Sponsors
Effective Altruism Australia: how Australians give to GiveWell's top charities — tax-deductibly, and with 100% pass-through. Until June 30, 2026, EAA is matching new donations up to $300,000. Donate at https://www.eaa.org.au/joewalker.
e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to https://www.e61.in/joewalker.
Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at https://www.vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

Danielle Wood is an Australian economist and the current chair of the Australian Productivity Commission.
Had a lot of fun chatting with Dani about how she's making sense of AI and its implications for policy. We discuss:
<ul>
<li>whether AI will be more like the internet or the Industrial Revolution,</li>
<li>where in the AI stack the profits will ultimately flow (and why it might not be the model layer),</li>
<li>why diffusion is the "main game" for Australian policymakers,</li>
<li>whether there's a case for government support of data centres,</li>
<li>why the AI jobpocalypse story is too crude (and why humans may still have jobs even under transformative AI),</li>
<li>whether AI will turn out to be a normal or abnormal technology, or both,</li>
<li>and why in either case Australia shouldn't follow the EU in legislating an AI Act.</li>
</ul>
Sponsors
<ul>
<li>Effective Altruism Australia: how Australians give to GiveWell's top charities &mdash; tax-deductibly, and with 100% pass-through. Until June 30, 2026, EAA is matching new donations up to $300,000. Donate at <a href="https://www.eaa.org.au/joewalker">https://www.eaa.org.au/joewalker</a>.</li>
<li>e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to <a href="https://www.e61.in/joewalker">https://www.e61.in/joewalker</a>.</li>
<li>Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at <a href="https://www.vanta.com/joe">https://www.vanta.com/joe</a>. Use the discount code "JOE".</li>
</ul>
To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

Well-researched interviews on ideas, technology, and policy. (Plus a recurring series on Australian public policy.)

Well-researched interviews on ideas, technology, and policy. (Plus a recurring series on Australian public policy.)

Joe Walker hosts refreshingly in-depth conversations with founders, scientists, scholars, economists, and public intellectuals.

The Joe Walker Podcast

Joe Walker hosts refreshingly in-depth conversations with founders, scientists, scholars, economists, and public intellectuals.

How Can Australia Get a Piece of the AI Action? — Danielle Wood

This is the first episode in a multi-part series called 'Compute in Australia'. Series announcement here. More episodes to follow over the coming month.

Dr Andrew Charlton MP is an Australian economist, entrepreneur and politician. As Cabinet Secretary and Australia's Assistant Minister for Science, Technology and the Digital Economy, he is one of the key leaders shaping the Australian government's AI strategy.

Andrew shares his internal model for how AI plays out economically and what a middle power like Australia should do about it. We discuss whether data centres will yield large economic rents, the geostrategic case for a compute industry, and how the government plans to use compute to climb the stack to "sovereign AI".

Sponsors
e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to https://www.e61.in/joewalker.
Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at https://www.vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

This is the first episode in a multi-part series called 'Compute in Australia'. Series announcement <a href="https://josephnoelwalker.com/compute-in-australia/">here</a>. More episodes to follow over the coming month.
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Charlton">Dr Andrew Charlton MP</a> is an Australian economist, entrepreneur and politician. As Cabinet Secretary and Australia's Assistant Minister for Science, Technology and the Digital Economy, he is one of the key leaders shaping the Australian government's AI strategy.
Andrew shares his internal model for how AI plays out economically and what a middle power like Australia should do about it. We discuss whether data centres will yield large economic rents, the geostrategic case for a compute industry, and how the government plans to use compute to climb the stack to "sovereign AI".
Sponsors
<ul>
<li>e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to <a href="https://www.e61.in/joewalker">https://www.e61.in/joewalker</a>.</li>
<li>Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at <a href="https://www.vanta.com/joe">https://www.vanta.com/joe</a>. Use the discount code "JOE".</li>
</ul>
To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

 Australia's Plan to Turn Compute Into Sovereign AI — Dr Andrew Charlton MP [Compute Series]

Compute in Australia: Announcing my new podcast series

Patrick Weller is emeritus professor of politics and public policy at Griffith University and the author or editor of some forty books.

Pat wrote what was the first (and may still be the only) Westminster-system equivalent to Robert Caro's epic meditation on Lyndon Johnson: a detailed study of how Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser wielded power. First published in 1989, it's a fascinating study of how one individual climbed into the hermit-crab-shell that is the prime ministership and made it his own.

Pat is also the author of two other detailed studies of Australian political leaders, and the definitive history of cabinet government in Australia.

Pat's work offers a picture of how human institutions – in this case, Westminster cabinets – work in practice and on a day-to-day level. Understanding the messiness, the beautiful malleability of the institutions, and their human bottlenecks has helped me build a more accurate model of the world – useful for predicting how governments may both respond to and utilise powerful new technologies.

Sponsors
Effective Altruism Australia: how Australians give to GiveWell's top charities — tax-deductibly, and with 100% pass-through. Until June 30, 2026, EAA is matching new donations up to $300,000. Donate at https://www.eaa.org.au/joewalker.
e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to https://www.e61.in/joewalker.

To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

Patrick Weller is emeritus professor of politics and public policy at Griffith University and the author or editor of some forty books.
Pat wrote what was the first (and may still be the only) Westminster-system equivalent to Robert Caro's epic meditation on Lyndon Johnson: a detailed study of how Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser wielded power. First published in 1989, it's a fascinating study of how one individual climbed into the hermit-crab-shell that is the prime ministership and made it his own.
Pat is also the author of two other detailed studies of Australian political leaders, and the definitive history of cabinet government in Australia.
Pat's work offers a picture of how human institutions &ndash; in this case, Westminster cabinets &ndash; work in practice and on a day-to-day level. Understanding the messiness, the beautiful malleability of the institutions, and their human bottlenecks has helped me build a more accurate model of the world &ndash; useful for predicting how governments may both respond to and utilise powerful new technologies.
Sponsors
<ul>
<li>Effective Altruism Australia: how Australians give to GiveWell's top charities &mdash; tax-deductibly, and with 100% pass-through. Until June 30, 2026, EAA is matching new donations up to $300,000. Donate at <a href="https://www.eaa.org.au/joewalker">https://www.eaa.org.au/joewalker</a>.</li>
<li>e61: a non-partisan economic research institute focused on Australian public policy. To receive a copy of the new essay I co-authored with e61 on data centres and the compute economy, go to <a href="https://www.e61.in/joewalker">https://www.e61.in/joewalker</a>.</li>
</ul>
To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

How Can Australia Get a Piece of the AI Action? — Danielle Wood

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