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Here we go. It's hour two and a Monday, live in Los Angeles. It's The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day if you're just tuning in. Mike McCarthy and the Cowboys have agreed to part ways. It came down to years, not money, meaning, Jerry said. Jerry and Mike came to terms with money. But Mike McCarthy has a new agent, Don Yee, who I know a little bit, highly respected, highly cerebral, knows how to market his guys. He had Brady for years. He may still have talk. I think he told McCarthy asked for the moon. You're the best coaching candidate out there now that Rabel's signed. In fact, you got a ring and Mike Rabel doesn't as a head coach and I think the Cowboys. Jerry didn't want to pay him for five years, and McCarthy smartly said, I'm looking at my roster in Philadelphia's. I'm not signing a three or four year deal. This is a rebuild. And if you're the GM, Jerry, I want five years, and Jerry didn't want it. Mike McCarthy wins, All right, we do it. On Mondays, Colin was right, Colin was wrong.

Here we go. It's hour two and a Monday, live in Los Angeles. It's The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day if you're just tuning in. Mike McCarthy and the Cowboys have agreed to part ways. It came down to years, not money, meaning, Jerry said. Jerry and Mike came to terms with money. But Mike McCarthy has a new agent, Don Yee, who I know a little bit, highly respected, highly cerebral, knows how to market his guys. He had Brady for years. He may still have talk. I think he told McCarthy asked for the moon. You're the best coaching candidate out there now that Rabel's signed. In fact, you got a ring and Mike Rabel doesn't as a head coach and I think the Cowboys. Jerry didn't want to pay him for five years, and McCarthy smartly said, I'm looking at my roster in Philadelphia's. I'm not signing a three or four year deal. This is a rebuild. And if you're the GM, Jerry, I want five years, and Jerry didn't want it. Mike McCarthy wins, All right, we do it. On Mondays, Colin was right, Colin was wrong.

Here we go.

Here we go.

Where Colin was right.

Where Colin was right.

I picked the Washington Commanders as my surprise playoff team in the NFL. I didn't know if they'd win a game, but they did. I love Dan Quinn, Cliff Kingsbury, Jaden Daniels. I thought it worked, and I thought their division had a couple of teams in the Giants in Dallas with the weak rosters. I said Friday, I don't think they're as good as Tampa. I don't think they'll win, but if they do, it's because of, singularly Jaden Daniels. And that's exactly what happened.

I picked the Washington Commanders as my surprise playoff team in the NFL. I didn't know if they'd win a game, but they did. I love Dan Quinn, Cliff Kingsbury, Jaden Daniels. I thought it worked, and I thought their division had a couple of teams in the Giants in Dallas with the weak rosters. I said Friday, I don't think they're as good as Tampa. I don't think they'll win, but if they do, it's because of, singularly Jaden Daniels. And that's exactly what happened.

Where Colin was row.

Where Colin was row.

I got a little too high on Jordan Love j Max scolded me the entire season, But you know what I thought after that, green Bay Dallas performance. I thought this guy is gonna be great, and it was a roller coaster year. Three picks against Philly. I was told out of college by a GMI trust that he thought he was a little loose and he wasn't sure you could coach that out of him. But if you count the playoff game in Philly, he ended up with fourteen picks and the nineteenth highest passer rating in the NFL. I think he needs an off season with Matt Lafleur to clean it up. I still like him a lot, but I was a little too high on him.

I got a little too high on Jordan Love j Max scolded me the entire season, But you know what I thought after that, green Bay Dallas performance. I thought this guy is gonna be great, and it was a roller coaster year. Three picks against Philly. I was told out of college by a GMI trust that he thought he was a little loose and he wasn't sure you could coach that out of him. But if you count the playoff game in Philly, he ended up with fourteen picks and the nineteenth highest passer rating in the NFL. I think he needs an off season with Matt Lafleur to clean it up. I still like him a lot, but I was a little too high on him.

Where Colin was right.

Where Colin was right.

Mike Rabel to the Patriots, I said Friday, Rabel's the best candidate, Patriots the best job. This is an easy one. People always say you can't go home again, but this is the only opening where you get two things that are necessary, and they get both a stable owner with championship pedigree and and a young quarterback on a rookie deal that shows great promise. Now, I mean, I guess you could say Washington, but we didn't know much about the new owner. We know Robert Kraft. This makes a lot of sense. I think he's gonna win in fact, I think New England next year. You think I'm crazy. I think they'll battle for a playoff spot, a wild card playoff spot. You can always get better on the perimeter, faster than you can on the lines. You can go get corners, you can go get wide receivers in the draft. This is the best running back draft in a decade, and there's tons of receivers. I think he's a culture builder. I think it's perfect where Colin was wrong, justin Herbert Listen. You know I love him, but that was a stinker. Now, former Charger Dan Fouts had his worst game as a pro in the playoffs. But if you take out one pass to Lad McConkey, they didn't do anything. And I love him, but he was off in two playoffs starts. I've got to be honest. He has a passer rating a sixty and has completed only fifty two percent of his throws. I still think he's great, but you know what, your legacy gets cemented and regresses in the playoffs, and he needs a really great playoff performance. Two trips, two ugly ones.

Mike Rabel to the Patriots, I said Friday, Rabel's the best candidate, Patriots the best job. This is an easy one. People always say you can't go home again, but this is the only opening where you get two things that are necessary, and they get both a stable owner with championship pedigree and and a young quarterback on a rookie deal that shows great promise. Now, I mean, I guess you could say Washington, but we didn't know much about the new owner. We know Robert Kraft. This makes a lot of sense. I think he's gonna win in fact, I think New England next year. You think I'm crazy. I think they'll battle for a playoff spot, a wild card playoff spot. You can always get better on the perimeter, faster than you can on the lines. You can go get corners, you can go get wide receivers in the draft. This is the best running back draft in a decade, and there's tons of receivers. I think he's a culture builder. I think it's perfect where Colin was wrong, justin Herbert Listen. You know I love him, but that was a stinker. Now, former Charger Dan Fouts had his worst game as a pro in the playoffs. But if you take out one pass to Lad McConkey, they didn't do anything. And I love him, but he was off in two playoffs starts. I've got to be honest. He has a passer rating a sixty and has completed only fifty two percent of his throws. I still think he's great, but you know what, your legacy gets cemented and regresses in the playoffs, and he needs a really great playoff performance. Two trips, two ugly ones.

Where Colin was right.

Where Colin was right.

Ohio State. I picked them to be in the National Championship before the year, I said they would lose at Odson and beat Oregon the next time. And I also said, even after they beat Michigan, I still think they're one of the top two teams in the country. I think they're gonna beat Notre Dame and I like Notre Dame a lot. But Ryan Day and Chip Kelly that Michigan loss was jet fuel. They are playing tremendous football. Will Howard after a bad Michigan game is on it. I don't. I mean, listen, their O line isn't all time stuff, and the Buckeyes usually have great old lines. But running back receiver Will Howard coaching there. There's nothing not to like here, and it just proves rivalries are great. But Nick Saban won a Natty one year after losing to Auburn. It comes in Ohio State. You got to move past the Michigan game sometimes this team. The Michigan loss actually was a catalyst for this performance where Colin was raw. Listen, I had the Longhorns winning the National championship and they lost twice to Georgia, once to Ohio State, and they should have lost Arizona State situationally, and I think Sarks a very good coach, but boys situationally, they made some calls. I did not love running outside on that goal line. Play was not didn't work for me. I think they got the most out of Quinn viewers. I think he is what he is. Arch Manning will start this point forward, But watching that game, I never felt Texas was as good as Ohio State. And maybe it just comes down to personnel. But I had them winning the Natty and I'm wrong where Colin was right. I've been saying this now for several years. I like Mike Tomlin, and he's great as an underdog coach, but when they lose effort, you're in trouble because offensively, he can't figure out offensive lines. They're offensive lines again seven straight year. They can't establish a run game, and again they'll lead the NFL in defensive spending. I think he's a good football coach, but I think even good football coaches sometimes need a fresh start. And again I would hire Mike Tomlin. I mean, if if the Cowboys called now that McCarthy's leaving, I'd hire Mike Tomlin. I think he's a good coach. I think the Pittsburgh thing, I think they need to reboot and I think Mike Tomlin does too. Where Colin was right, Lamar Jackson won his third playoff game. Listen. I know, I know, but he can't beat Kansas City, and nobody could beat Tiger Woods in his prime or Michael Jordan when he got to the finals. Sometimes winning in the playoffs against the greatest quarterback playing in the sport is really hard. But I think Lamar once again one hundred and thirty two passer rating two TV's no picks without Zay Flowers. I mean they they knew. Everybody in the ballpark knows they don't have they don't have a receiver. It's Mark Edwards, Dereck Henry and Lamar didn't matter, poised great. We got to stop the Lamar Jackson stuff. Yeah, he struggles against Kansas City, the world struggled against MJ like Phil Micholson's an old timer couldn't beat Tiger much. I still think Lamar Jackson is really really special. Colin Wright, Colin wrong one more.

Ohio State. I picked them to be in the National Championship before the year, I said they would lose at Odson and beat Oregon the next time. And I also said, even after they beat Michigan, I still think they're one of the top two teams in the country. I think they're gonna beat Notre Dame and I like Notre Dame a lot. But Ryan Day and Chip Kelly that Michigan loss was jet fuel. They are playing tremendous football. Will Howard after a bad Michigan game is on it. I don't. I mean, listen, their O line isn't all time stuff, and the Buckeyes usually have great old lines. But running back receiver Will Howard coaching there. There's nothing not to like here, and it just proves rivalries are great. But Nick Saban won a Natty one year after losing to Auburn. It comes in Ohio State. You got to move past the Michigan game sometimes this team. The Michigan loss actually was a catalyst for this performance where Colin was raw. Listen, I had the Longhorns winning the National championship and they lost twice to Georgia, once to Ohio State, and they should have lost Arizona State situationally, and I think Sarks a very good coach, but boys situationally, they made some calls. I did not love running outside on that goal line. Play was not didn't work for me. I think they got the most out of Quinn viewers. I think he is what he is. Arch Manning will start this point forward, But watching that game, I never felt Texas was as good as Ohio State. And maybe it just comes down to personnel. But I had them winning the Natty and I'm wrong where Colin was right. I've been saying this now for several years. I like Mike Tomlin, and he's great as an underdog coach, but when they lose effort, you're in trouble because offensively, he can't figure out offensive lines. They're offensive lines again seven straight year. They can't establish a run game, and again they'll lead the NFL in defensive spending. I think he's a good football coach, but I think even good football coaches sometimes need a fresh start. And again I would hire Mike Tomlin. I mean, if if the Cowboys called now that McCarthy's leaving, I'd hire Mike Tomlin. I think he's a good coach. I think the Pittsburgh thing, I think they need to reboot and I think Mike Tomlin does too. Where Colin was right, Lamar Jackson won his third playoff game. Listen. I know, I know, but he can't beat Kansas City, and nobody could beat Tiger Woods in his prime or Michael Jordan when he got to the finals. Sometimes winning in the playoffs against the greatest quarterback playing in the sport is really hard. But I think Lamar once again one hundred and thirty two passer rating two TV's no picks without Zay Flowers. I mean they they knew. Everybody in the ballpark knows they don't have they don't have a receiver. It's Mark Edwards, Dereck Henry and Lamar didn't matter, poised great. We got to stop the Lamar Jackson stuff. Yeah, he struggles against Kansas City, the world struggled against MJ like Phil Micholson's an old timer couldn't beat Tiger much. I still think Lamar Jackson is really really special. Colin Wright, Colin wrong one more.

Heard The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like. Heard Hierarchy Time now, no go. The top ten NFL teams according to College number tenes Cincinnati Bengals.

Heard The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like. Heard Hierarchy Time now, no go. The top ten NFL teams according to College number tenes Cincinnati Bengals.

Sorry, they beat the Broncos and the Pittsburgh Steelers that made the playoffs, and they beat the breaks off of Green Bay. Right now, they're a good football team. Joe Burrow is on fire five game winning streak. He completed seventy seven percent of his throws, thirteen tds, four picks in a one to eleven passer rating. That's just sometimes the way it works. You get hot too late. Cincinnati is a top ten team in the league.

Sorry, they beat the Broncos and the Pittsburgh Steelers that made the playoffs, and they beat the breaks off of Green Bay. Right now, they're a good football team. Joe Burrow is on fire five game winning streak. He completed seventy seven percent of his throws, thirteen tds, four picks in a one to eleven passer rating. That's just sometimes the way it works. You get hot too late. Cincinnati is a top ten team in the league.

Let me tell you who.

Let me tell you who.

Kansas City, Buffalo and Baltimore didn't want to make the playoffs. Cincinnati, they were fine with bow Knicks. They were fine with Justin Herbert, CJ. Stroud and don't want bow Knicks anywhere near the playoffs. Cincinnati at ten, number nine. Minnesota, yeah they listen. They're like a really good student who got a D in their last couple of test scores. Doesn't make him a bad student. Top ten scoring offense, top five defense. They got out coach last night, and they're not as good as Detroit and frankly, the Rams young defense is a site to behold, but I have the Vikings at nine, number eight, the inconsistent Houston Texans. Now they're only two and five against playoff teams, and they're gonna go to Kansas City. It's gonna be cold, and they're gonna probably get smoked. They're nine to zero when holding opponents to twenty points or fewer, and Kansas City is getting better on offense, so that's not gonna happen. I think they're still a year away. I think Denver's a year away. I think Green Bays a year away. I do think CJ. Stroud's a different quarterback on the road than at home. We told you that going into the Chargers game.

Kansas City, Buffalo and Baltimore didn't want to make the playoffs. Cincinnati, they were fine with bow Knicks. They were fine with Justin Herbert, CJ. Stroud and don't want bow Knicks anywhere near the playoffs. Cincinnati at ten, number nine. Minnesota, yeah they listen. They're like a really good student who got a D in their last couple of test scores. Doesn't make him a bad student. Top ten scoring offense, top five defense. They got out coach last night, and they're not as good as Detroit and frankly, the Rams young defense is a site to behold, but I have the Vikings at nine, number eight, the inconsistent Houston Texans. Now they're only two and five against playoff teams, and they're gonna go to Kansas City. It's gonna be cold, and they're gonna probably get smoked. They're nine to zero when holding opponents to twenty points or fewer, and Kansas City is getting better on offense, so that's not gonna happen. I think they're still a year away. I think Denver's a year away. I think Green Bays a year away. I do think CJ. Stroud's a different quarterback on the road than at home. We told you that going into the Chargers game.

C J.

C J.

Stroud cold weather on the road. Their season will end number seven Commanders, no punts or turnovers against the Bucks. I don't know if I like the team or I'm in love with Jayden Daniels. I mean, the kids, just honest to god, there's about sixty percent of my homes sixty percent Lamar Jackson. It's the best rookie I've ever seen, next to Andrew Luck. Six game winning streak. Each of their last five games have been decided on the last play from scrimmage. You can't do that forever. That's just too emotional, too wild. I think they'll lose, but they deserve a ton of respect. How would you like to be Washington for the next ten years with Jayden Daniels and cap Space? Sign me up now.

Stroud cold weather on the road. Their season will end number seven Commanders, no punts or turnovers against the Bucks. I don't know if I like the team or I'm in love with Jayden Daniels. I mean, the kids, just honest to god, there's about sixty percent of my homes sixty percent Lamar Jackson. It's the best rookie I've ever seen, next to Andrew Luck. Six game winning streak. Each of their last five games have been decided on the last play from scrimmage. You can't do that forever. That's just too emotional, too wild. I think they'll lose, but they deserve a ton of respect. How would you like to be Washington for the next ten years with Jayden Daniels and cap Space? Sign me up now.

Number six.

Number six.

Number six is the Rams played a perfect game in the first half last night, but they were not gonna on third down. And their offense can be really sluggish in the first half. Listen, they're really good, not great, but they're fifteen and five when they have Stafford and Puka and Cup and Kyron Williams. Kien Williams got dinged up last night, cross your fingers. And they're seven and one when they scored twenty one plus. Their offense gets stuck though, and it happens kind of regularly where their offense gets stuck. But if you give McVeigh or Andy Reid extra time, good night. And I thought this this defense is no joke. In the first four weeks of the year, they had eight sacks. That had eight sacks last night. This defense is Jared Verse is unblockable. This kid right here jumping into the end zone. So the Rams are a young defense that about every three weeks, you look up and they're noticeably better. I have the Rams at number six, number five Philadelphia. I don't know if I don't think they can win the Super Bowl. Yes, they're thirteen. In one of the last fourteen games, they were two for eleven on third down. Jalen Hurts went nearly two full quarters without a comple and I don't love the head coach. I do think they'll beat the Rams because the Rams played perfect and now go outdoors to cold weather and Philadelphia played poorly and still won. They have the best roster in the NFL. But I mean, Saquon Barkley is the leader of this team. It's not the quarterback, it's not the coach. This is the one team to me, Like you can like Derrick Henry, but I get Lamar and John Harbaugh. Saquon Barkley leads this team. That's the guy in the old line that I trust. Number four, Listen, the Ravens are good, boy. They are really dependent on Derrick Henry and Lamar and that would concern me. Three drives of eighty five plus yards, you know what I feel about Lamar Jackson. Listen, They're one and five against the Chiefs, and they beat everybody else. So I don't think this team would beat Kansas City if they hadn to play him an arrowhead. I just don't think they would because I think Kansas City is better defensively, and I think Baltimore is getting better on the defensive side. They held opponents under twenty points in five straight games, so that's what good coaching staffs do and good general managers do. Baltimore had flaw, and they're now better at the flaw. Kansas City wasn't very good on offense early, and now Kansas City is better on offense. That's what good organizations do. So they've cleaned up the mess on defense. I have them there at what do I have the Ravens at four? Number three Detroit Lions second best roster in football off of by hosting the Commanders. They struggle against mobile quarterbacks, which is not a good thing to struggle against. In twenty twenty five in the NFL six and two against playoff teams. Dan Campbell has a culture of relentlessness. Guys play hurt. Jared Goff. For all you Jared Goff critics, this should be a calling was really right for the next ten years Jared Goff on third and fourth down this year. Eighteen touchdowns, no picks. Best o line in.

Number six is the Rams played a perfect game in the first half last night, but they were not gonna on third down. And their offense can be really sluggish in the first half. Listen, they're really good, not great, but they're fifteen and five when they have Stafford and Puka and Cup and Kyron Williams. Kien Williams got dinged up last night, cross your fingers. And they're seven and one when they scored twenty one plus. Their offense gets stuck though, and it happens kind of regularly where their offense gets stuck. But if you give McVeigh or Andy Reid extra time, good night. And I thought this this defense is no joke. In the first four weeks of the year, they had eight sacks. That had eight sacks last night. This defense is Jared Verse is unblockable. This kid right here jumping into the end zone. So the Rams are a young defense that about every three weeks, you look up and they're noticeably better. I have the Rams at number six, number five Philadelphia. I don't know if I don't think they can win the Super Bowl. Yes, they're thirteen. In one of the last fourteen games, they were two for eleven on third down. Jalen Hurts went nearly two full quarters without a comple and I don't love the head coach. I do think they'll beat the Rams because the Rams played perfect and now go outdoors to cold weather and Philadelphia played poorly and still won. They have the best roster in the NFL. But I mean, Saquon Barkley is the leader of this team. It's not the quarterback, it's not the coach. This is the one team to me, Like you can like Derrick Henry, but I get Lamar and John Harbaugh. Saquon Barkley leads this team. That's the guy in the old line that I trust. Number four, Listen, the Ravens are good, boy. They are really dependent on Derrick Henry and Lamar and that would concern me. Three drives of eighty five plus yards, you know what I feel about Lamar Jackson. Listen, They're one and five against the Chiefs, and they beat everybody else. So I don't think this team would beat Kansas City if they hadn to play him an arrowhead. I just don't think they would because I think Kansas City is better defensively, and I think Baltimore is getting better on the defensive side. They held opponents under twenty points in five straight games, so that's what good coaching staffs do and good general managers do. Baltimore had flaw, and they're now better at the flaw. Kansas City wasn't very good on offense early, and now Kansas City is better on offense. That's what good organizations do. So they've cleaned up the mess on defense. I have them there at what do I have the Ravens at four? Number three Detroit Lions second best roster in football off of by hosting the Commanders. They struggle against mobile quarterbacks, which is not a good thing to struggle against. In twenty twenty five in the NFL six and two against playoff teams. Dan Campbell has a culture of relentlessness. Guys play hurt. Jared Goff. For all you Jared Goff critics, this should be a calling was really right for the next ten years Jared Goff on third and fourth down this year. Eighteen touchdowns, no picks. Best o line in.

Football, Number two, number one, Number two.

Football, Number two, number one, Number two.

Number two Kansas City listen, worst point differential in the history of the league for a team that's as good as them. I know they had to buy, and I know they'll be good, and I know they'll beat the brakes off of Houston. And they are getting stronger late with their musical chairs on the offensive line in Hollywood Brown. And they are seven to two against current playoff teams and twenty one and two. But aesthetics matter and data matters. And my number one team in the league number was as Buffalo. There's never been a team in pro football that had thirty passing touchdowns and over thirty rushing touchdowns. Not only do they win at home, all but one home game was a blowout seven win by twenty points. I think this offense is incredible. Left tackle right now, the best remaining in the playoffs. Quarterback, most talented remaining in the playoffs James Cook. Top five running back, two good tight ends, three capable receivers. They are not as good as Kansasity defensively, there is no question, and maybe they don't match up with Baltimore defensively. But this team right now is so good offensively, left tackle, quarterback, weapons, run game. I have them number one by an inch. I think this is the year. I think this is the best version of Buffalo. Hey, these are tough decisions, folks.

Number two Kansas City listen, worst point differential in the history of the league for a team that's as good as them. I know they had to buy, and I know they'll be good, and I know they'll beat the brakes off of Houston. And they are getting stronger late with their musical chairs on the offensive line in Hollywood Brown. And they are seven to two against current playoff teams and twenty one and two. But aesthetics matter and data matters. And my number one team in the league number was as Buffalo. There's never been a team in pro football that had thirty passing touchdowns and over thirty rushing touchdowns. Not only do they win at home, all but one home game was a blowout seven win by twenty points. I think this offense is incredible. Left tackle right now, the best remaining in the playoffs. Quarterback, most talented remaining in the playoffs James Cook. Top five running back, two good tight ends, three capable receivers. They are not as good as Kansasity defensively, there is no question, and maybe they don't match up with Baltimore defensively. But this team right now is so good offensively, left tackle, quarterback, weapons, run game. I have them number one by an inch. I think this is the year. I think this is the best version of Buffalo. Hey, these are tough decisions, folks.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in neon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in neon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.

Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.

You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the iHeartRadio App.

You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the iHeartRadio App.

Why should you listen to Cavino and Rich.

Why should you listen to Cavino and Rich.

We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world.

We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world.

We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss.

We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss.

And the fact that we've been friends for the last twenty years and still work together. I mean that says something, right, So.

And the fact that we've been friends for the last twenty years and still work together. I mean that says something, right, So.

Check us out out. We like to get you involved. To take your phone calls chop it up, as they say, I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planetar. Be sure to check out Cavino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific, And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covin, Know and Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course on social media that's Covino and Rich.

Check us out out. We like to get you involved. To take your phone calls chop it up, as they say, I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planetar. Be sure to check out Cavino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific, And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covin, Know and Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course on social media that's Covino and Rich.

So there's a lot to unravel and unpack here when we bring on Adam Silver, eleven years as the NBA commissioner. So let's start with the good stuff. International expansion, China and Africa. You have a new CBA for seven years. You just signed a massive TV deal. I like the NBA Cup. I'm a distracted consumer. If the court's purple, I know it matters. I like it. I think it works. So there's a lot of good here, more good than bad. But I'm I'm gonna set this question up because this is something I struggle with. I'm a consumer and I'm distracted. I'm on my phone as much as TV, so I have been watching Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese. They feel like burden magic because I am viscerally connected to them via college. This is why studios do sequels. I know the actors. Zach Edy. I really like watching him plays, having a very nice rookie season, but I know him because Matt Painter and Purdue is a big time program. It would be reductionist to say he's succeeding because he's big. He's succeeding because of what Purdue did and not only that commissioner, but I got to watch the growth, so I am emotionally committed to Zach Edy. I think your heart was in the right place with a G League, but it hides players from me that I want to grow with. Is there an argument to be made that college basketball there's I feel like it's not not that it's marginalized, but it's not as big as it could be. It could be such a microwave for your stars, and the league doesn't see it that way. Is that a fair critics.

So there's a lot to unravel and unpack here when we bring on Adam Silver, eleven years as the NBA commissioner. So let's start with the good stuff. International expansion, China and Africa. You have a new CBA for seven years. You just signed a massive TV deal. I like the NBA Cup. I'm a distracted consumer. If the court's purple, I know it matters. I like it. I think it works. So there's a lot of good here, more good than bad. But I'm I'm gonna set this question up because this is something I struggle with. I'm a consumer and I'm distracted. I'm on my phone as much as TV, so I have been watching Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese. They feel like burden magic because I am viscerally connected to them via college. This is why studios do sequels. I know the actors. Zach Edy. I really like watching him plays, having a very nice rookie season, but I know him because Matt Painter and Purdue is a big time program. It would be reductionist to say he's succeeding because he's big. He's succeeding because of what Purdue did and not only that commissioner, but I got to watch the growth, so I am emotionally committed to Zach Edy. I think your heart was in the right place with a G League, but it hides players from me that I want to grow with. Is there an argument to be made that college basketball there's I feel like it's not not that it's marginalized, but it's not as big as it could be. It could be such a microwave for your stars, and the league doesn't see it that way. Is that a fair critics.

I don't think it's a fair criticism because we do see it that way and we're doing everything we can to build college basketball.

I don't think it's a fair criticism because we do see it that way and we're doing everything we can to build college basketball.

I mean, let me take a few steps back.

I mean, let me take a few steps back.

Like, first of all, in terms of the G League, most of the G League players are either international players who didn't play in college or former college players. In fact, we had a program called Team McKnight Condai sa Rice recommended we create. There was an NCAA commission, and you'll recall pre collectives and nil money. President Obama criticized us, and then the NCAA had a commission and said there should be a track, a pro track into the NBA because it was unfair that the only opportunity for these young players was to play without being paid in college. So we had already had the G League, but then we created this program called Team McKnight where for a select few high school players, if they wanted the opportunity to get to get paid and then come into the NBA, they could play in that program. But even then we recognize that compared to the facilities the conditions at the top D one programs, even though we were paying them and they couldn't have been paid at that point, it was they were still better off playing at Kentucky or Louisville or Duke or USC or wherever else. And so once the nil and collective money came in, we actually shut down the Team ig Night. We still have the G League, And the last thing we want to do is take top prospects would otherwise be going to school. Take Cooper Flag at Duke. We'd rather he be there than be playing in the NBA right now or be playing in the G League. We want those players to develop. So, you know, I think there's a misnomer to the extent that you or others feel that we're not supportive of college basketball. And personally a huge college basketball fan, I'm Charlie Baker, the former governor of Massachusetts.

Like, first of all, in terms of the G League, most of the G League players are either international players who didn't play in college or former college players. In fact, we had a program called Team McKnight Condai sa Rice recommended we create. There was an NCAA commission, and you'll recall pre collectives and nil money. President Obama criticized us, and then the NCAA had a commission and said there should be a track, a pro track into the NBA because it was unfair that the only opportunity for these young players was to play without being paid in college. So we had already had the G League, but then we created this program called Team McKnight where for a select few high school players, if they wanted the opportunity to get to get paid and then come into the NBA, they could play in that program. But even then we recognize that compared to the facilities the conditions at the top D one programs, even though we were paying them and they couldn't have been paid at that point, it was they were still better off playing at Kentucky or Louisville or Duke or USC or wherever else. And so once the nil and collective money came in, we actually shut down the Team ig Night. We still have the G League, And the last thing we want to do is take top prospects would otherwise be going to school. Take Cooper Flag at Duke. We'd rather he be there than be playing in the NBA right now or be playing in the G League. We want those players to develop. So, you know, I think there's a misnomer to the extent that you or others feel that we're not supportive of college basketball. And personally a huge college basketball fan, I'm Charlie Baker, the former governor of Massachusetts.

And now head of the and CAA.

And now head of the and CAA.

He and I've been meeting a lot to talk about actively what we can do to better develop young American players, which clearly has to begin before they get to college, before the NBA. So and but you know, we are the league of the WNBA too, and so I pay a lot of attention to Caitlyn Clark and the star players that are emerging and the WNBA and who are coming from college and when whether it's Angel or Caitlin or Juju now and these players come into the w NBA as you know, built fully, you know, multi dimensional stars that people are familiar with like it was in the old days in the NBA.

He and I've been meeting a lot to talk about actively what we can do to better develop young American players, which clearly has to begin before they get to college, before the NBA. So and but you know, we are the league of the WNBA too, and so I pay a lot of attention to Caitlyn Clark and the star players that are emerging and the WNBA and who are coming from college and when whether it's Angel or Caitlin or Juju now and these players come into the w NBA as you know, built fully, you know, multi dimensional stars that people are familiar with like it was in the old days in the NBA.

We love that.

We love that.

The problem is, like so many things in life, I'm not sure we can turn the clock back on that type of development.

The problem is, like so many things in life, I'm not sure we can turn the clock back on that type of development.

I will say it's positive, you know.

I will say it's positive, you know.

Putting aside, I think there's some issues that need to be addressed in terms of the NIL system and the collectives. It seems like nobody's really happy with it right now. In terms of the competitive landscape, I think it's positive that those players are able to be paid, and if they're able to be paid, particular the players that are on the margin of whether they or not they would be lottery picks or first round draft picks, they now have a huge incentive to stay in school because they can. They're not only can get the further development, but they can get paid as well.

Putting aside, I think there's some issues that need to be addressed in terms of the NIL system and the collectives. It seems like nobody's really happy with it right now. In terms of the competitive landscape, I think it's positive that those players are able to be paid, and if they're able to be paid, particular the players that are on the margin of whether they or not they would be lottery picks or first round draft picks, they now have a huge incentive to stay in school because they can. They're not only can get the further development, but they can get paid as well.

Here's something that I addressed with David Stern, and I'll address it with you too. I think trades are good for sports. If you look at the best teams in the NBA right now, Oklahoma City, Cleveland, and Boston, they have smart front offices that have drafted and developed well. They can occasionally make a Donovan Mitchell move or Porzingis move, or a Drew Holliday, but those teams have drafted and developed well, and they're being rewarded for it. You know, Dallas drafted Luca. You know they can go get Kyrie, but lucas a star. The NBA gets a little too caught up if you take Lebron out. Let's just take Lebron out. He is the historic outlier. Even Kevin Durant, Warriors one before him, Warriors one after him.

Here's something that I addressed with David Stern, and I'll address it with you too. I think trades are good for sports. If you look at the best teams in the NBA right now, Oklahoma City, Cleveland, and Boston, they have smart front offices that have drafted and developed well. They can occasionally make a Donovan Mitchell move or Porzingis move, or a Drew Holliday, but those teams have drafted and developed well, and they're being rewarded for it. You know, Dallas drafted Luca. You know they can go get Kyrie, but lucas a star. The NBA gets a little too caught up if you take Lebron out. Let's just take Lebron out. He is the historic outlier. Even Kevin Durant, Warriors one before him, Warriors one after him.

Is that.

Is that.

I think the league sometimes is too concerned with trades. If Jimmy Butler, who's a good player, maybe of superstar anymore, went to Oklahoma City, I would want to watch them more. Or Golden State, I would want to that. The league sometimes to protect the small markets. Let's not worry too much about that. Let's just let players move because the sense that it ruins the league or creates a competitive balance outside of Lebron.

I think the league sometimes is too concerned with trades. If Jimmy Butler, who's a good player, maybe of superstar anymore, went to Oklahoma City, I would want to watch them more. Or Golden State, I would want to that. The league sometimes to protect the small markets. Let's not worry too much about that. Let's just let players move because the sense that it ruins the league or creates a competitive balance outside of Lebron.

It really doesn't.

It really doesn't.

Most of the great teams in this league historically have always been draft and develop, build a core, and then add sprinkle in some good players via trades.

Most of the great teams in this league historically have always been draft and develop, build a core, and then add sprinkle in some good players via trades.

I don't think it's an accident that we've had six different teams over the last six years that have won championships, and at the end of the day, we sell competition and I hear you. It sounds like you're making an argument for dynasties to a certain extent, that we should do more to allow a great player to go to an already great team or an already very good team. The problem is that it's zero sum. The players are going to go somewhere. That's the great news. All the top tier players are going to play in the NBA, and that there is a correlation. It's far from perfect, but there's a correlation between what players make and their performance on the floor. And so what we've done, and I understand your point of view over time is while we have a soft cap system, it's become harder and it has been more difficult once you have a fully loaded team.

I don't think it's an accident that we've had six different teams over the last six years that have won championships, and at the end of the day, we sell competition and I hear you. It sounds like you're making an argument for dynasties to a certain extent, that we should do more to allow a great player to go to an already great team or an already very good team. The problem is that it's zero sum. The players are going to go somewhere. That's the great news. All the top tier players are going to play in the NBA, and that there is a correlation. It's far from perfect, but there's a correlation between what players make and their performance on the floor. And so what we've done, and I understand your point of view over time is while we have a soft cap system, it's become harder and it has been more difficult once you have a fully loaded team.

Yes, then add a great player on top of that.

Yes, then add a great player on top of that.

And to your point, if Kevin Durant couldn't have gone to Golden State from Oklahoma City when he did, the team he had gone to would have almost by definition, if it weren't already a great team, would have become a great team. And for us, we think that's better league wide in terms of creating more competition. I mean, we're coming off a season last year and it's continued this year. Or I think we have more competitive teams than any time in league history. And to your point, the fact that tomorrow night Cleveland and Oklahoma City are playing yet again, you know, fantastic build up for that game, incredible competition. We just got to remember at the end of the day, that's what we're selling. I mean, I think that's part of the reason for the enormous success of the NFL. This any given Sunday notion that nobody thinks twice if you know, the Packers are in the super Bowl, there's no bemoaning that it's a small market whatsoever. And I think our league, it's true that if you look back on you know, the first you know, sixty years of our league, it seemed David Stern joked, you know when when he came into the league, I thought the job was you went back and forth from Boston to la every year, and one of the team's got the rings, you know. And I think the fact that now we're selling competition in every market, and that in terms of from a television standpoint too, that you know, whether it's Oklahoma City, whether it's San Antonio, whether it's Salt Lake City, that those teams are in a position when well managed to compete in the same way the large markets can.

And to your point, if Kevin Durant couldn't have gone to Golden State from Oklahoma City when he did, the team he had gone to would have almost by definition, if it weren't already a great team, would have become a great team. And for us, we think that's better league wide in terms of creating more competition. I mean, we're coming off a season last year and it's continued this year. Or I think we have more competitive teams than any time in league history. And to your point, the fact that tomorrow night Cleveland and Oklahoma City are playing yet again, you know, fantastic build up for that game, incredible competition. We just got to remember at the end of the day, that's what we're selling. I mean, I think that's part of the reason for the enormous success of the NFL. This any given Sunday notion that nobody thinks twice if you know, the Packers are in the super Bowl, there's no bemoaning that it's a small market whatsoever. And I think our league, it's true that if you look back on you know, the first you know, sixty years of our league, it seemed David Stern joked, you know when when he came into the league, I thought the job was you went back and forth from Boston to la every year, and one of the team's got the rings, you know. And I think the fact that now we're selling competition in every market, and that in terms of from a television standpoint too, that you know, whether it's Oklahoma City, whether it's San Antonio, whether it's Salt Lake City, that those teams are in a position when well managed to compete in the same way the large markets can.

And by the way, I mean it's not just money.

And by the way, I mean it's not just money.

I mean players choose markets based on you know, climate taxes. Sure, some like big cities, some like small cities. Yeah, but you know, I think I'm balanced. This is a much better system for a thirty team league.

I mean players choose markets based on you know, climate taxes. Sure, some like big cities, some like small cities. Yeah, but you know, I think I'm balanced. This is a much better system for a thirty team league.

I'm gonna throw this at you. I said this the other day about the esthetic of the NBA. It's a bit homogenous, a little cookie cutter. And I said, listen, I don't mind three pointers, but if the NFL was just you could run the ball and throw bombs. No no layering, no drag routes, no tight end screen. It was just run it or bombs. Optically, it's not as fascinating. And I love the three pointer, but like, and you know this, you're a pretty progressive thinking. I think athletes are better. Wemby can pull up and cross you over on a dribble and shoot. They couldn't do that ten years ago. And the truth is, because your players are so gifted and it's such a global pool, the three pointer is too easy. And I have simply said I would put the three pointer. I would go have it go into the bench about six feet up, eliminate the corner. I'd bring back the handcheck. I do like physicality. Your athletes are so great it's become too easy to hit it, and the optics on it are repetitive. I think there's numbers ratings that prove people are they they like layers and power forwards and physicality and not just dunks and threes.

I'm gonna throw this at you. I said this the other day about the esthetic of the NBA. It's a bit homogenous, a little cookie cutter. And I said, listen, I don't mind three pointers, but if the NFL was just you could run the ball and throw bombs. No no layering, no drag routes, no tight end screen. It was just run it or bombs. Optically, it's not as fascinating. And I love the three pointer, but like, and you know this, you're a pretty progressive thinking. I think athletes are better. Wemby can pull up and cross you over on a dribble and shoot. They couldn't do that ten years ago. And the truth is, because your players are so gifted and it's such a global pool, the three pointer is too easy. And I have simply said I would put the three pointer. I would go have it go into the bench about six feet up, eliminate the corner. I'd bring back the handcheck. I do like physicality. Your athletes are so great it's become too easy to hit it, and the optics on it are repetitive. I think there's numbers ratings that prove people are they they like layers and power forwards and physicality and not just dunks and threes.

What do you do to solve that?

What do you do to solve that?

Because I think you've engaged with people and acknowledged it can be a bit repetitive. It is a bit of an issue. What do we do to change it?

Because I think you've engaged with people and acknowledged it can be a bit repetitive. It is a bit of an issue. What do we do to change it?

That The hardest question is the last one you asked, what do we do to change it? I agree to the extent that you start to see very similar offenses. Yes, around the league. You know, teams have brands, teams have identity. You know Joe Dumars is a colleague now at the league office, the Bad Boys, et cetera. You know, I think you know the Showtime Lakers. So I recognize that's the extent that off to start to look very similar.

That The hardest question is the last one you asked, what do we do to change it? I agree to the extent that you start to see very similar offenses. Yes, around the league. You know, teams have brands, teams have identity. You know Joe Dumars is a colleague now at the league office, the Bad Boys, et cetera. You know, I think you know the Showtime Lakers. So I recognize that's the extent that off to start to look very similar.

We lose that.

We lose that.

At the same time, the league is going through a transformation. Just as you said, players like Victor Webbin Yama players like you know Yo kich are doing things big men never did historically. I mean, it wasn't that long ago column. You'll remember that conversations you had with David Stern, we would bemoan the lack of skill among some players that you know, there there was a sense there was too much physicality. Yes, that the play under the back, you know that you would have you know, the hack.

At the same time, the league is going through a transformation. Just as you said, players like Victor Webbin Yama players like you know Yo kich are doing things big men never did historically. I mean, it wasn't that long ago column. You'll remember that conversations you had with David Stern, we would bemoan the lack of skill among some players that you know, there there was a sense there was too much physicality. Yes, that the play under the back, you know that you would have you know, the hack.

A shack era.

A shack era.

You know, there were big men that just couldn't shoot free throws. There are no big men anymore who can't shoot may throws, just as one comparable from generation to generation.

You know, there were big men that just couldn't shoot free throws. There are no big men anymore who can't shoot may throws, just as one comparable from generation to generation.

Have never been higher. So I think we just got to be careful.

Have never been higher. So I think we just got to be careful.

Like the one thing I want to do is I don't want to sort of knee jerk move the three point line. We're sort of going through a process now seeing how these players are adapting to the new rules and figuring out if whatever changes we should make. I mean, be honest, I wish it were as simple as just moving the three point line back, because then we would just do it. I mean, part of the concern from the basketball folks is that if you move the three point line back, you'll end up sort of just clogging up, you know, the sort of the area under the basket, and that's not such attractive basketball either. I think this is doable. I think we by examining the game and sort of seeing where it's going. I mean, it frustrates me a little as well, because it's it's obviously you're representative of how what a fair number of people are saying about the game, and I watch it, watch it night in, night out, and we're seeing some of the most incredible athleticism and skill in the history of this league, again Victor wen Banyama. But I think you're also saying too that if we moved the three point line back and what we ended up with was Victor when Banyama standing under the basket the whole time, just waiting to done, that wouldn't be interesting either. So you know, one, I assure you we are on it. I think it's a very fixable issue. I mean, it's you know we've gone from I mean I always tell the story like Bob Coosey, who I don't know, he's around ninety five years old. Those stays in touch with me, and he'll call me after watching a game and say, I'm so frustrated because the commentators think that what these players are doing, let's say, from twenty eight feet or thirty feet and seemingly just flicking the ball up with their wrists and swishing these three pointers, that somehow that's easy. They said, the skill level is incredible. But he'll also say, you know, I think we all want to see diversity in the offenses. But by the way, one other thing I'll just throw in, I don't think the players are getting enough credit for playing the style defense they're playing now as well.

Like the one thing I want to do is I don't want to sort of knee jerk move the three point line. We're sort of going through a process now seeing how these players are adapting to the new rules and figuring out if whatever changes we should make. I mean, be honest, I wish it were as simple as just moving the three point line back, because then we would just do it. I mean, part of the concern from the basketball folks is that if you move the three point line back, you'll end up sort of just clogging up, you know, the sort of the area under the basket, and that's not such attractive basketball either. I think this is doable. I think we by examining the game and sort of seeing where it's going. I mean, it frustrates me a little as well, because it's it's obviously you're representative of how what a fair number of people are saying about the game, and I watch it, watch it night in, night out, and we're seeing some of the most incredible athleticism and skill in the history of this league, again Victor wen Banyama. But I think you're also saying too that if we moved the three point line back and what we ended up with was Victor when Banyama standing under the basket the whole time, just waiting to done, that wouldn't be interesting either. So you know, one, I assure you we are on it. I think it's a very fixable issue. I mean, it's you know we've gone from I mean I always tell the story like Bob Coosey, who I don't know, he's around ninety five years old. Those stays in touch with me, and he'll call me after watching a game and say, I'm so frustrated because the commentators think that what these players are doing, let's say, from twenty eight feet or thirty feet and seemingly just flicking the ball up with their wrists and swishing these three pointers, that somehow that's easy. They said, the skill level is incredible. But he'll also say, you know, I think we all want to see diversity in the offenses. But by the way, one other thing I'll just throw in, I don't think the players are getting enough credit for playing the style defense they're playing now as well.

So it's an incredible game. I know you love the game.

So it's an incredible game. I know you love the game.

It's, you know, the number one participation sport in the United States. You mentioned Kitlyn Clark. It's incredible to see what the women are now doing on the floor and the amount of young girls who are playing this game. So as stewards of the game, you know, Joe Dumar's leads our competition committee, you know we will tweak it, we will correct those issues.

It's, you know, the number one participation sport in the United States. You mentioned Kitlyn Clark. It's incredible to see what the women are now doing on the floor and the amount of young girls who are playing this game. So as stewards of the game, you know, Joe Dumar's leads our competition committee, you know we will tweak it, we will correct those issues.

So years ago, I had a president Barack Obama in a couple of times, and one of the things I offered him, I said, you're the first president in my life that's had the deal with social media and the vile nature of it. It may not change policy, but does it change the discussions in the briefing rooms before you go out? Does it change the way perhaps you think of policy. Because we're in a tribal nation, it's very loud. So along those lines, I love George Brett as a baseball player. As a kid Kansas City Royals, George Brett often missed thirty games in a season. Nobody thought it was load management. Right. We live in a different time. Platforms call it out and tickets are more expensive, so it does bother me. I'm a small town kid. I went once a year to see downtown Freddie Brown, Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, Jack Sikma. If they didn't play, that was the game I got. And I can see that little kid in Milwaukee, middle class family go and Jannis could play, but he doesn't. Is it a bigger problem? I think it's a problem. Do you view it as being sort of platformed up by loud voices or does the league look at this and think, you know, our middle class fans they go to one game a year, they're not corporate stewards, and that they want to go and see their stars play. I think it's serious. Do you in the league think it is a problem that is something you want to solve.

So years ago, I had a president Barack Obama in a couple of times, and one of the things I offered him, I said, you're the first president in my life that's had the deal with social media and the vile nature of it. It may not change policy, but does it change the discussions in the briefing rooms before you go out? Does it change the way perhaps you think of policy. Because we're in a tribal nation, it's very loud. So along those lines, I love George Brett as a baseball player. As a kid Kansas City Royals, George Brett often missed thirty games in a season. Nobody thought it was load management. Right. We live in a different time. Platforms call it out and tickets are more expensive, so it does bother me. I'm a small town kid. I went once a year to see downtown Freddie Brown, Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, Jack Sikma. If they didn't play, that was the game I got. And I can see that little kid in Milwaukee, middle class family go and Jannis could play, but he doesn't. Is it a bigger problem? I think it's a problem. Do you view it as being sort of platformed up by loud voices or does the league look at this and think, you know, our middle class fans they go to one game a year, they're not corporate stewards, and that they want to go and see their stars play. I think it's serious. Do you in the league think it is a problem that is something you want to solve.

We so much think it's a problem that in the last collective bargaining agreement you may recall, we added some provisions to further incentivized players to play as many games as they possibly can by making them ineligible for certain awards, certain benefits if they fall below a certain level of games. Having said that, to your point, you know, and I'm never going to shoot the messenger in terms of whether it's social media or the media.

We so much think it's a problem that in the last collective bargaining agreement you may recall, we added some provisions to further incentivized players to play as many games as they possibly can by making them ineligible for certain awards, certain benefits if they fall below a certain level of games. Having said that, to your point, you know, and I'm never going to shoot the messenger in terms of whether it's social media or the media.

It's a real issue.

It's a real issue.

And how can you know for that family for that one time that they're going to go see the boxer or the Lakers or the Knicks or whatever else. I completely understand their point of view. The problem is as much as we are an eighty two game league. I mean take Lebron for example. Okay, Lebron has missed i think three games so far this season. Yeah, he's forty years old, he has the most minutes in NBA history, and he's missed I think three out of let's say thirty seven games so far.

And how can you know for that family for that one time that they're going to go see the boxer or the Lakers or the Knicks or whatever else. I completely understand their point of view. The problem is as much as we are an eighty two game league. I mean take Lebron for example. Okay, Lebron has missed i think three games so far this season. Yeah, he's forty years old, he has the most minutes in NBA history, and he's missed I think three out of let's say thirty seven games so far.

I think that's incredible.

I think that's incredible.

Now, for the family that went to the Laker game of one of those three games, I understand their disappointment, and I know he does as well. You know, it's with it with its season as long as we have, by the way, and whether it's because load management or an injury, it's still the same impact on that family. And all I can say is we've worked with our teams. We're working a lot on the science. I think, incidentally, you don't hear load management so much around the league anymore because I think we've dispelled that notion that it's somehow through some analytics or a computer program that on November twelfth, you can make a decision that a player should sit out on December twentieth, which is what was going on in the league, and in fact, my understanding, at least of the data that's come in so far, it may even be the case that some of the early early season injuries are caused by players not having enough load.

Now, for the family that went to the Laker game of one of those three games, I understand their disappointment, and I know he does as well. You know, it's with it with its season as long as we have, by the way, and whether it's because load management or an injury, it's still the same impact on that family. And all I can say is we've worked with our teams. We're working a lot on the science. I think, incidentally, you don't hear load management so much around the league anymore because I think we've dispelled that notion that it's somehow through some analytics or a computer program that on November twelfth, you can make a decision that a player should sit out on December twentieth, which is what was going on in the league, and in fact, my understanding, at least of the data that's come in so far, it may even be the case that some of the early early season injuries are caused by players not having enough load.

Because even thank you, thank you again.

Because even thank you, thank you again.

You know, it's fascinating, Like when I got to the league a little over thirty years ago, a lot of players would take the month of August and like literally go fishing. You know, they would show out and they would they would like eat a little bit more, gain a little bit of weight. They'd come into training camp and that's when you got back into shape and you'd lose those pounds and you'd play your way and and and train and practice back into game shape. Now there's not there's hardly a player in the league that isn't working out every single day. Guys even go to the finals, they take a day off, they're back on the floor, but often it's specialized one on one training, it's weight room work, whatever it is. It's not five on five basketball because and a lot of it in fairness, these players, and that's what frustrates me too, because they don't take a day off. There's some of the hardest working athletes out there, but then they have it in their head that they're more likely to get injured if they're playing five on five. So yeah, right, So then they come back into training camp and it's still not necessarily five on five. There's the preseason again, minutes are limited. Then boom the regular season comes and at least I can't say it's perfect. I know it's causation yet, but there's certainly correlation early in the season that you see those guys And it's interesting. It used to be we would hear from teams that you're going to injure our players if they play for USA Basketball, the US national team, the Olympic team, or the national teams you know, from the countries they're from. In fact, it's the opposite it. We have fewer injuries and maybe not surprisingly from the guys who participate in competition over the summer because the load is maintained. They're not overdoing it, you know, I mean I I but you know they come back and there's that the consistency of the load, you know, throughout the off season. So I think this is an area too where better data, you know, AI is changing everything where we're going to be in a position, I think where we can convince the teams and convince the players that actually playing is in their interest. But unfortunately we're never going to be able to completely solve that issue for that family that comes to that game and is disappointed. I will say, just lastly, and maybe speaks a little bit to the data that we're coming off last year in the entire history of the NBA, it was our highest attendance and I'm sure I mean that market.

You know, it's fascinating, Like when I got to the league a little over thirty years ago, a lot of players would take the month of August and like literally go fishing. You know, they would show out and they would they would like eat a little bit more, gain a little bit of weight. They'd come into training camp and that's when you got back into shape and you'd lose those pounds and you'd play your way and and and train and practice back into game shape. Now there's not there's hardly a player in the league that isn't working out every single day. Guys even go to the finals, they take a day off, they're back on the floor, but often it's specialized one on one training, it's weight room work, whatever it is. It's not five on five basketball because and a lot of it in fairness, these players, and that's what frustrates me too, because they don't take a day off. There's some of the hardest working athletes out there, but then they have it in their head that they're more likely to get injured if they're playing five on five. So yeah, right, So then they come back into training camp and it's still not necessarily five on five. There's the preseason again, minutes are limited. Then boom the regular season comes and at least I can't say it's perfect. I know it's causation yet, but there's certainly correlation early in the season that you see those guys And it's interesting. It used to be we would hear from teams that you're going to injure our players if they play for USA Basketball, the US national team, the Olympic team, or the national teams you know, from the countries they're from. In fact, it's the opposite it. We have fewer injuries and maybe not surprisingly from the guys who participate in competition over the summer because the load is maintained. They're not overdoing it, you know, I mean I I but you know they come back and there's that the consistency of the load, you know, throughout the off season. So I think this is an area too where better data, you know, AI is changing everything where we're going to be in a position, I think where we can convince the teams and convince the players that actually playing is in their interest. But unfortunately we're never going to be able to completely solve that issue for that family that comes to that game and is disappointed. I will say, just lastly, and maybe speaks a little bit to the data that we're coming off last year in the entire history of the NBA, it was our highest attendance and I'm sure I mean that market.

No doubt the highest ticket prices too.

No doubt the highest ticket prices too.

So I will say, yes, they're fans disappointed, but people love the NBA experience, they love going to the games. I understand when there's a particular star you're interested, but also we've never been deeper in terms of the talent to four hundred and fifty players in the league.

So I will say, yes, they're fans disappointed, but people love the NBA experience, they love going to the games. I understand when there's a particular star you're interested, but also we've never been deeper in terms of the talent to four hundred and fifty players in the league.

Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple quick ones because I know you're a busy guy, much busier than me, and then these can require shorter answers. So one of the things the iPhone has changed everything. Our society is more caffeinated, more distracted, and more frenetic. Hockey regular season, baseball regular season, NBA regular season. It's just harder to get ratings. Events UFC on Saturday, college football, NFL, Olympics, World Cup events get excellent ratings. It's not necessarily the fault of a league if there's a decline in Monday through Friday. And as I look and read stories about the decline of ratings, my take is it's an iPhone issue. It's not baseball. Until Otawi and the Dodgers put up basically the best most talented team ever, the Dodgers had great ratings. Is that can you just is it just possible that Hey, we have contracts that limit the number of games we can be reduced to. We don't want to make one and done like college basketball. Is that your regular season ratings they don't matter that much because I just saw your new TV deals and that the media makes a bigger deal of the truth is we're good when it matters in May and June, and that's just a new world.

Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple quick ones because I know you're a busy guy, much busier than me, and then these can require shorter answers. So one of the things the iPhone has changed everything. Our society is more caffeinated, more distracted, and more frenetic. Hockey regular season, baseball regular season, NBA regular season. It's just harder to get ratings. Events UFC on Saturday, college football, NFL, Olympics, World Cup events get excellent ratings. It's not necessarily the fault of a league if there's a decline in Monday through Friday. And as I look and read stories about the decline of ratings, my take is it's an iPhone issue. It's not baseball. Until Otawi and the Dodgers put up basically the best most talented team ever, the Dodgers had great ratings. Is that can you just is it just possible that Hey, we have contracts that limit the number of games we can be reduced to. We don't want to make one and done like college basketball. Is that your regular season ratings they don't matter that much because I just saw your new TV deals and that the media makes a bigger deal of the truth is we're good when it matters in May and June, and that's just a new world.

Yeah, you asked me to answer shorter, so I'll try to be. There's so much that could be set on this So first of all, this season, just to set their record straight, we're up about four percent on ESPN and ABC. If you had TNT into the mix, we're down slightly three or four percent for this season. That's our rating story so far. We're coming off last season where it was our highest regular season ratings in four years. But the issue is, especially for a sport like the NBA where we have a very young fan based young men, yes, young women cable as you know, and I'm sure has an impact on your show as well, that since you last interviewed me five plus years, there's been yet another dramatic increase in the number of people who subscribe. I'll call traditional television cable, satellite television, or who watch traditional television so much so that from a decade ago it's like fifty percent fewer people watch traditional television. In fact, last year the lines crossed. More people are now watching programming on streaming services than they are through legacy conventional television. So back to the iPhone. So those deals you talked about that we just entered into for next year. Part of the reason I believe, in addition to the sport itself, that we're able to provide so much value is every one of those new partners Disney and ESPN, NBC, Universal, Peacock, and of course Amazon provide their games through streaming. Maybe in the case of NBC it's also broadcast or Disney, ABC and ESPN, But every single game beginning next season is going to be available on a streaming service. And then, you know, burden on or onus on us. Then that we know now there's the opportunity to watch this programming on those screens on those TVs they carry everywhere they go. But I think as a result, we have to up our game too, So they're adding more games of consequences. The colored floors you joked about before for the NBA Cup. So that gets people's attention. But beyond that, they really exciting thing to me about moving to streaming services, which are in essence internet television. You can add all kinds of incredible functionality, customization, personalization. People want to bet on games, they can do it. People want to buy merchandise, they're fascinated with a particular camera angle, or they want an audio feed that is directed at hardcore fan or casual fans. So I think, and this isn't just the case for the NBA, I think for all of the leagues that the competition is that much greater than it used to be. Yeah, and so we have to do a better job engaging our fans in these games.

Yeah, you asked me to answer shorter, so I'll try to be. There's so much that could be set on this So first of all, this season, just to set their record straight, we're up about four percent on ESPN and ABC. If you had TNT into the mix, we're down slightly three or four percent for this season. That's our rating story so far. We're coming off last season where it was our highest regular season ratings in four years. But the issue is, especially for a sport like the NBA where we have a very young fan based young men, yes, young women cable as you know, and I'm sure has an impact on your show as well, that since you last interviewed me five plus years, there's been yet another dramatic increase in the number of people who subscribe. I'll call traditional television cable, satellite television, or who watch traditional television so much so that from a decade ago it's like fifty percent fewer people watch traditional television. In fact, last year the lines crossed. More people are now watching programming on streaming services than they are through legacy conventional television. So back to the iPhone. So those deals you talked about that we just entered into for next year. Part of the reason I believe, in addition to the sport itself, that we're able to provide so much value is every one of those new partners Disney and ESPN, NBC, Universal, Peacock, and of course Amazon provide their games through streaming. Maybe in the case of NBC it's also broadcast or Disney, ABC and ESPN, But every single game beginning next season is going to be available on a streaming service. And then, you know, burden on or onus on us. Then that we know now there's the opportunity to watch this programming on those screens on those TVs they carry everywhere they go. But I think as a result, we have to up our game too, So they're adding more games of consequences. The colored floors you joked about before for the NBA Cup. So that gets people's attention. But beyond that, they really exciting thing to me about moving to streaming services, which are in essence internet television. You can add all kinds of incredible functionality, customization, personalization. People want to bet on games, they can do it. People want to buy merchandise, they're fascinated with a particular camera angle, or they want an audio feed that is directed at hardcore fan or casual fans. So I think, and this isn't just the case for the NBA, I think for all of the leagues that the competition is that much greater than it used to be. Yeah, and so we have to do a better job engaging our fans in these games.

Okay, I promise. I know your PR people are probably saying, get coward out of here.

Okay, I promise. I know your PR people are probably saying, get coward out of here.

I can ignore them, thank you.

I can ignore them, thank you.

Okay, there's another one. So this really bothers Jason McIntyre. I think he really has been on this for two years. He's been very publicly critical of Barkley, banging on the league.

Okay, there's another one. So this really bothers Jason McIntyre. I think he really has been on this for two years. He's been very publicly critical of Barkley, banging on the league.

And my take is.

And my take is.

Just I'll cut to the chase. Have you ever called that show's executives or Charles and said Charles, could could you not beat down on us every night that there are those that believe it takes a negative tact or tone on a fairly consistent basis. I don't think it affects the ratings. I think they're entertainment show. But I don't see the research you do. Have You contacted them at one point said you guys are a little negative.

Just I'll cut to the chase. Have you ever called that show's executives or Charles and said Charles, could could you not beat down on us every night that there are those that believe it takes a negative tact or tone on a fairly consistent basis. I don't think it affects the ratings. I think they're entertainment show. But I don't see the research you do. Have You contacted them at one point said you guys are a little negative.

Never ever, ever, And the only contact I've ever had with them, and it would have been with Ernie. It's occasionally Ernie and I will talk and he'll say we're going to be discussing some aspect of the salary cap or you know, the CBA, and it'll like, just give me a primer on what the rules are, so that if somebody says something that is factually wrong, I'm in a position to correct them.