Other than his otherworldly skill at golf, Joel Dahmen is just like us. A native of Clarkston, Wash. (population 7,229), he likes cold beer and football and, presumably, apple pie. While Tiger Woods’s maniacal workouts led to a physique that resembles a martini glass, Dahmen is unbothered by his dad bod. Think of him as the pro next door.
In this episode Dahmen speaks candidly about his long road to the PGA Tour and the stress that comes with having to fight for his job. He talks about what he learned moonlighting as a caddie for a friend at Q School, and takes listeners behind the scenes of Max Homa’s baby shower. As a member of the Player Advisory Council, Dahmen sheds light on the Tour’s boardroom machinations and what Jay Monahan is like behind closed doors. At every turn he is self-deprecating and amusing.
So I think we can all agree that Echo golf shoes changed the game. When Fred couples rolled up wearing them without socks, it spoke to their comfort and just sort of that that effortless cool. But you have an Arnold Palmer story I want to hear. Right, Let's have I ever told you about my last visit with Arnold. I saw Arnold. I would like to thank no reporters for Arnold more than I did when he was in his eighties. My last visit with him was in Latrobe, and I drove there wearing these pathetic birken stocks when I got always I'll just wear my shoes when I get there. But when I got there, all I had was my Echo golf shoes. And Arnold's really formal, and I'm going into his office with my cleaned up Echo golf shoes and armoms like checking me out, and he's nodding, and I said, Arnold, you're looking at my socks and these arms like, no, I'm looking at your shoes. And then Arnold talked about all the different shoes he wore, and no questioner, Arnold Doug the Echo shoe. I love the Echo show. I know you do too, Uh, it's a great shoe sales resistant. If it's good enough for Arnold Palmer and Fred Couples, it's good enough for the rest of you. So go to Echo dot com and um, you can find one that fits that you like that people will stare at, like Arnie. So back to need a fourth, Jeff, I called you, Jeff, Yes, absolutely, m hmm. Golf is the thing on anything in golf that doesn't change, the only thing that changes the best in playing? Does this man of one time winner on the PGA Tour. The point Alan is he didn't go Hollywood. You need a fourth? This is fun. So let's say you're probably a better guitar player than I am a golfer. I think it's the reason so many athletes across sports. I think he's the greatest athlete they ever saw. I would go to the range and I would try to hit you know, a couple of hundred one irons, and I would try to hit him as high and as hard as I could. Great athletes do leave a legacies. You're kind only the one I can share. Not get myself in trouble. Oh my god, this is a dangerous grow their Welcome back to Anita fourth. This is Alan Schipnak. This is the podcast where myself, Michael Bamberger, and US Open champion Jeff Ogilvie take turn surprising each other with mystery guests. Uh. Today's is an active PG tour player. He's from the great state of Washington, not Fred Couples. Uh. He contended at this year's US Open until the bitter end. Unfortunately, we saw a little too much of him at this year's Phoenix Open, a little too much of him. Uh. I'm making this easy, guys. He is known for is fun, quirky chemistry with his long time caddy. All Right, forget it, Joel David, come on down and show yourself. What's happened. How we doing, guys? This is fun. So you look a little nervous. I can see you're scanning from face to face on Yeah. This is uh, Jeff, are you back in Australia, Back in Australia. Yeah, yeah, Okay, I have no idea what time would be there, but it's uh, it's in the morning. It's so good tomorrow. It's like it's like time travel. And Michael, where are you? Joel? I mean I'm in San Diego and Uh, I know you don't know me, but you you made a big impression on me. The first time I saw you in person. It was at the Washington event and it was the one that uh that Mullinari Mulinari one, and I was following you. I think I was drawn to the floppy hat and there were and I don't remember the ins and outs of it, but you got the red ass because there was a cheating thing going on and we're going to get to the bottom of it. That's the headline, and I don't know the story behind it, but I remember being impressed. Uh yeah, that that did happen. It was I played with Tiger on Saturday, so it was already like the biggest move of my career at the time. It's my second year on tour. I'm just trying to find my way, really and then Sunday happens on the tenth hole, and uh yeah, that was that was still probably the biggest point of my golf career. Wait does that come up? Do you guys talk about that with you all the time? Like, uh so, Maxi Holm I had his big baby shower last night, and so you know, he's got a bunch of people over his house. We're having a grand old time and it comes up. I mean it is, it is quite often. I actually caddied for Brandon Harkins three weeks ago now and in Boise at the corn Ferry Finals event. So we're out playing a practice and the parents come out on Tuesday afternoon. We'repared with son kang no way, what are the odds of that? Like, it's uh that the tours really kept a separate uh, you know, we played out the same category for a while, never even like in the same morning and afternoon went like we were always opposite waves, not even close to each other. So we've only played together once since then, and it's been fine. We were it wasn't like we were friends before. It's likely over. We didn't know who each other was really before and it's been fine. Afterwards. I I raked his bunker and I cleaned his ball and told him good shots, so it was all it's all good. That's so commendable. I mean, that's one thing I want to ask you about, was your experience caddying, because Brandon, mean one of your when you're great friends, it's it's a big moment in his career. You have some knowhow, but playing a caddy is not the same. So what was experience like being on the other side of the strap. Yeah, caddying is so hard. One. I'm almost thirty five. I'm a professional athlete, is what you know? I guess technically I'm a professional athlete. I'm suppose to be in the prime of my career and I, uh, it's hard to carry that bag. You know, I had the full staff bag. It was as light as it could possibly be. Uh, and it was still it was still tough. But um sell bishally, I want to back on the PGA tour. Um. You know, he finished twenty six in the regular season. I just missed out. I'm actually going over to his house for dinner tonight. I just got back in. So we're super close, and I was, you know, he called me Sunday night and he's like, hey, can I you know, I can can can? Can Can I come up? And caddy, I said, yeah, sure, um, anything I can do to help, But it's so hard to help in like a one week's time. It's like you're not really gonna work on the golf swing. You're just trying to make him happy and stay out of his way. Really for the most part. But now we're in boys, you're also at elevations. We're playing five to ten percent pinning on the heat. I haven't carried a book and done a yard is in five years. Gino is a great caddy. He takes care of all that stuff. So now he's relying on me to do the numbers. I am panicking about that. I'm always thinking about the next shot, like you know where the pin is and all the slopes and everything you possibly do, and like it's it's it's fast. It is really fast out there, and then you're trying to make sure you get the pin. You're just trying to be in the way, trying to clean the ball. Like it was a It was a new found respect again. I've I've I think I treat caddies pretty well. I would have a great relationship with my with with Gena. He's my best friend. But I can still kind of be a butt head out there at times, and so I'm gonna be a lot gentler to too Geno going forward, for sure, do you think we'd all be better players if we had to caddy for someone once and once every now and then. I said that quote in an interview. I learned someone else. They said every good player should caddy one time for another good player. Um, in a big event, I think it's so hard. And you know, does he want to hit a little pitching wedge or a big gap? Which, like what's he feeling keeping track of the wind? Like? Then he called in for a read and you're like, do you like? He says it's a cup out and I'm only on the edge, Like, do I give him like a ball and a half to split the difference? Right? It really tell him what I feel? Uh? It is it's it's hard work, and um, I'm glad I'm on the playing side of it for now. For sure. Did you carry the umbrella? No, no one rella. We carried like four balls in the bag. He actually didn't even put a water in the bag because he would chug it on the tea box and throw it in the garbage. So I didn't have to carry an extra water like it was. It was pretty funny. Well, he didn't have anything extra in there. That is such an insightful common jep because in my experience, guys will carry the umbrella when there's a zero point zero chance of rain. Uh So it depends on the boss. It does depends on the boss. It's all about the player. Like if the if the boss is um he's a tough one, you carry the umbrella un percent of the time. But most players, I think, leave the caddy. It's like your choice. But if we get stuck with that one, you're in. It was a congree a couple of years ago, JT Post and famously got caught in the rain. There was zero cent chance and Aaron Fleaner uh did not have it and he was soaking wet and cleaners. He's one of my favorite people. But he's been known to maybe kind of corner or two out there, and he's carried the umbrella every round since then. So how how can a caddy really eat a green for a player when he can't really know how hard the player wants to strike the putt? Yeah, that's fair. I mean, sometimes you know, let's say you're always trying to hit it twelve inches or seventeen ins the whole or somewhere in that range. Like, but sometimes you're gonn hit a softer and sometimes you're just gonna have harder And player doesn't always know what they're gonna do to be honest. I mean we try to do things, but uh that that part is really difficult. I think that comes with a lot of time. Like Gino knows the downhillers are going to be hit a lot softer obviously, but he's he's we've been together for eight years, like he can. That's when you have you know, you can really you know, kind of figure out what your player does and exactly you know what what was tendencies are as well. So um for a one off gig, I think he was just trying to have a buddy on the bag and help out and unfortunately we actually missed a cup by one. But that's how it goes. Is there one? Is there one decision that that you helped him make that you still regret to of him? We were uh first round, we're on the I guess it was our like thirteen or fourteen told. But he has like a he has a wedge to a back pin. If you go along, it's auto bogie and could be double and he wanted to chip a pitching wedge back there to skip it up the slope. And I'm like, if this flies a little too far at skipping into the back bunker, No, chance. So I talked him into his his gap wedge, which was a perfect number, I thought, but he didn't. He want to make sure he got it on top. But it's a small little area and he kind of goosted a little bit and one hopped over to the back bunker and plugged, and then he left that one in the bunker and he got that one up and down, thankfully for Bogey. But there I could have even like lied to him aout a number at that point, give him three yards shorter to hit it into, because you just know that long is so bad. So I should have probably just let him hit his pitching wedge and like skip it in there, because that's what he kind of wanted. And I was protecting Long and um and then in the second round we're going for part five, and I said Long was good to a back bunker, like his three would go over his too and would kind of come up short, and I thought it was easier if he hit it over the green, so I kind of talked him into a three wood, and it was not an easy bunker shot where if you would have hit his two iron short, he probably could have got up and down. So those two I feel kind of crappy about I talked him into we had to He had to make two birdies coming in the last four. See how we just did the heat and wheat thing. That's his problem, not mine. Now. Uh, we needed too of our last four and one was drivable and he wanted three would again. I didn't want to go along, so I talked to me to two iron. But he didn't hit a great two iron and went into a bunker that was forty yard shorts and I was dead there. And um, just a couple of things. But I don't know, like could another caddy. Maybe another caddy wouldn't have helped him in a couple of other spots, So I don't know. I mostly try to stay out of the way and just walk fast. But um, it's it's so much work, and it's such a hot job. It's such a hot job. I imagine. Yeah, yeah, I control. Yeah, my man used to do that. I'm squirrel who Ketty felt me for a really long time. Brilliant Ketty, he used to I'm convinced that I would never have any proof. He would never tell me, but he used to tell me the yardage to pick the club. He wanted me to pick, like you say, lying about the yardage, he absolutely would tell me a number. He if he wanted me to hit seven, he would give me a number where I would never hit six. He would just give me a different number, So I would pick seven every time. Um. And like you said, like one week, catting for a guy for one week would be really difficult. Caddy for a guy for years and years and years. You become one golfer. It's one organism. So you kind of know how to read putts for him, and you know what he's thinking. You know, you could probably predict when. You could predict when I was going to hit the wrong club just by my mood walking off the previous green. You know you know you're gonna him at the pin all of a sudden. It's a bad idea. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, tough jump for one week. Speaking of Squirrel, he's an all time caddy. I only was around with him a couple of events. I think I played with him once. He had looked Donald and Hilton Head and he was great. But there's an absolutely, maybe a top five all time story that he caddied for you and he answered the phone on a T box. Could you you want to tell that story. It is, it is unbelievable, it's mostly true. Um, well tell a little bit to make it well. He tells it the best, especially after a bottle red but um tenth at Riviera and we all know the whole um. And this is back when it was a fifty fifty call. I mean most guys had driven now or three would go for the green. But back then it was sort of this is I don't know, mid two thousand's half the field with hit three or four iron laid up and half of field with hit driver and squirrel was adamant old school caddy. You laid up Tennant River area. You just laid up your three on at the bunker wedge on the green, three on at the bunk at wedge of the green. And like it was gradually over a few years, because we played the every year. Gradually, I'm like Driver, He's like, no three on And I was getting more and more and more like I wanted to go for the green. And finally I doubled nine or something walk on too Tennants. Like I met Driver today, there's no three eye over there. I'm like, no, i'mitting Driver. He goes, well, you're wrong, it's a three eye over there. I'm like, get out of the way. I'mitting driver, hit driver, make double. So we get to the eleventh tea, which is a really small, intimate little tea at Riviera. The crowd or on top of you, I mean, they can hear your whole conversations the tiny little area. And this was back when we had like the KNOCKI of well, everybody else had probably moved to blackberries and iPhones, but he still had the old Knokia phone that had the crazy old school ring tone with the aerial I think you pulled up when you are when you answer the phone. And it was ringing in his bag all the time. He wasn't putting it on silent. It was ringing all the time. But usually it was a practice round or you didn't really notice. This was in the tournament and his phone goes off right when I'm over the ball um and he and he unzips the bag quietly as squirrel do it, just gets it out and answers the phone, look, no, no, no, sorry mon cause okay, bye, hangs it up, puts in the bag and I just looked straight at him with I don't know, there's a hundred two other people standing there. I'm like, what are you doing answering the phone? Like we're playing a golf tourn it? What are you doing? He goes, oh yeah, and who was that? Anyway? Who are you answering the phone too? You guys? That was my mom. She said no one should hit driver on the tenth Riviera. I just couldn't stuff. He just kidding me from the most angry man, just a happy, laughing man. It was incredible, just one a moment. Yeah, and it's pretty much old truth. Well, thank you for listening to need a fourth podcast. We're going to conclude it now because right I can't talk that this this podcast over. That's unbelievable. Yeah, the story has been going ever since. So good. I love that one. All Right, we'll take us inside of the Maxi Homa uh baby shower because this this must have been one of the tour events, the social gathering of the season. Let's hear about it. It It was. It was a pretty big time. So uh. He bought a new house recently. Um, it's nice as you would imagine. Uh, And he was kind of one of the first parties he's kind of really had I guess he's he typically goes off site at a house to party. I would say, but uh, a lot of people, um kind of I wouldn't say who's hooper se but there was there were some heavy hitters there and uh, just a great time it was. It was a lot of young people. Um, you know it kind of knew most of them, but it's just it was. He he threw it himself, which is one of the cooler things that he threw the baby shower for his wife. Um, and made a co ed deal, which is a ton of fun. Um hung out with Colton Nose there most of the time him. You know, you can hear a story after story from that guy. Um, it was. It was just a lot of fun there was. He had a bartender set up so that was good. Plenty of food, he had a chef cooking and uh we actually were like really well behaved for what kind of could have happened. We're only there for three or four hours and um I was home at eight o'clock. Uh and um not too hungover today. So it was actually really fun. It was great. I mean, when you get a bunch of tour guys together, do you do you wind up chipping in the backyard, like how how does that play out? It was one of those things. So yeah, he were his me, Coult nosed and Max in the group chat in the morning and Colt's like, hey, Joel, do you want a pregame this thing? And I'm like sure. So we go out to lunch with our wives or his his soon to be wife and have some cocktails wherever. We were kind of joking. He's like, are we gonna play beer pong at this thing? And uh, Max just said yeah yeah, but like later, it's kind of a classy deal. So I run to Walmart and I grab a six ft footable table, red solo cups, beer pong balls in a case of beer, and we show up a little bit later than most people, and we walk into this thing with our table, beer pong balls and the whole deal. And we walk in immediately like the music stops. Everyone looks at us because we're slightly underdressed and we're carrying beer pong supplies, and he's like, oh shit, guys, put in the garage. We can do with this later because we want to keep it classy for a while. So um, we we were going to turn that one up and kind of right about that time when it could have turned the corner. Are a lot of us probably realize it's a terrible idea. So we we all kind of went home and all of that is still in his garage so that we'll save that for next time. But yeah, he's got a little chipn area back, he's got that stuff. We we just kind of sat inside. We watch the LSU Florida State game, which is great, and we watched the Ciro's tennis match, which is fun. And just guys, you know, all the girls are one it's like middle school. The girls on one side talking about babies and their stuff and all the guys are telling tall tales and and watching sports. PGA to a baby showers, I mean, how many baby shows have a bah? Yeah exactly. I mean you can tell them Max. It's definitely thrown by a on the you know, of the husband. But yeah, like my wife is having a baby shower at the end of October and she's like, you have to leave for the day, and I'm like, I have a day off Saturday. I'm home in the fall like it is. I'm gonna be nine o'clock kickoff. I'm gonna be ready to roll and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a day for sure. But Jeff, when you were when you were based uh in Scottsdale, did did your guys overlap a little bit and you and Joel did you have any not really? I think no might room for jaw when I left, Yeah, a little bit. We played one practice around. I kind of joined you for like five holes. He's actually was that week in in in d C there in eighteen um and I remember this comment. I was like, Oh, where do you live? And he said Arcadie. At the time, I'm like, oh, I love Arcadia, Like and that's actually where Max just bought this place. And that's like, that's super nice. It's not Scott's Dale. It's like you don't feel like you're in Arizona. You don't feel like you're in desert. They have green grass, tall, big trees, awesome houses. And I was like, because we were kind of looking at actually buying a house at that time as our first house we're gonna buy. And I remember I was like, oh, like what are you kind of selling that one for type of deal? And he mentioned the number and I was like, oh, I need to win a couple events and probably a major two to uh to to to live in Arcady at the Ogilvie household for sure, So um, that's still our goal. We're actually be in the house now in Scottsdale. Hopefully it's done by Christmas. But we were down there and first thing, my wife says, like, we gotta live here someday, and I'm like, honey, we're doing pretty good. But this is like another level of to to get what you can get in Scottsdale, to get what you can Arcadie is is definitely another level. Where as a kid where you want to watch golf on TV, Yeah, I watched quite a bit something My dad and I did a ton, especially Saturday and Sunday, and we would go always play golf afterwards, live right by a golf course and it was easy for us to go down and cruise round for an evening nine. So um, I remember, did Jeff, do you chip in on like sixteen or seventeen or yeah, and for par for par and you had a awesome drive on eighteen and a good wedge shot or like a short iron in there. I remember that, but you weren't really talked about all day. You were kind of just kind of you know Monty, I know, Mr and Iron shot in there, and then obviously fills debacle. Uh, but I feel like no one was talking about Jeff. He wasn't really on TV as much, and an all of a sudden they showed him like the last like three holes and then he won. So I don't know, it was a bit of the pill and Monty show. It was a bit of the fulk filling Monty Show really, which is kind of nice for you. I guess you can kind of not that you were sure, you're still feeling it, but he probably felt like you were hiding a little bit. Yeah, it didn't feel like that when we were there. I mean, um, Phil was not. I mean that was the peak of Phil in New York on I mean Tiger's father just that was his first miscut to the major I think wingfoot um, and so it was all that weekend was Phil's chance, right, and they just New York, they were they had already put him up on the throne um. So yeah, it was good for me. He turned out good for me. It was a little bit like the PGA this year. You know, j T wasn't really in the mix at all, and all of a sudden, a few holes to go. I was like, oh, JT is gonna win. Like that was. It was one of those sort of deals. Um, crazy finish anyway, ancient history. We love that. Where where's your trophy at now, Jeff? Uh, it's on the shelf. It's actually funny. Um. I had it up in Scottsdale in Arcadia for a bit and then when we moved, it went into some boxes and I lost it for like two years. Um, when you're moving, you collect a whole lot of bunch of stuff. I mean, I didn't lose it. I knew I had it, but I didn't know where it was. It was in the boxes at the back of the storage and it somewhere. Um, it's funny. Someone asked me about it. Don't you really care? And I'm like, well, kind of. I mean I care that I want and it was a great experience and stuff. But if you if you took it away from me, I wouldn't think any less of it. You know. I don't sit there every day and like look at trophies, you know. Um, it's funny. Winning, it's the good winning. It's a good part, not the piece of metal they give to you afterwards. You know, well, don't you have to buy it too? It's like eight or ten dollars to buy it or something. Yeah, it was like ten or eleven at that point. I think they're probably even more expensive now some guys but monopoly on making silver trophies for the major winners, which is just baffling to me. They give you a million or two dollars win a tournament, and they can't just throw your replica. It's yeah, just take just take the ten k off the top from you and just give you the trophy. I feel on her. You know what Sean McKell told me is the water Maker, of course, is so big, and the replica is even bigger and requires a lot of silver, and it was gonna be the price of silver was really high back then or something that's me, like fifty dollars, and so you never got that. You never got the replica made. And um and of course he's on some hard times as a player, and um as a few years ago he still hadn't gotten it done. He was thinking that that's now or never. I gotta I gotta get one made. But yeah, I don't think people really really understand. It always interests me because as as a player, as you know, nothing is guaranteed. You have a history, you won in two thousand twenty one, you have some endorsements and some guaranteed money, but uh, how much do you worry about the future and project out two years, three years, five years talking about kids and houses? Like how much stress is that on a guy like he was making a very nice living but you're not. You don't have the five year exception from a major and all these other things. Yeah, like I said, this is I think I'm starting my seventh year, which is kind of beyond my wildest streams really, but yeah, it's something that is always at the forefront. So I had the two year exemption from the win and teeing it up next weekend, ap But like, I playing for my job again, I'm playing for my card. Um. It's something that's we talk about all the time with my wife. And I'm pretty confident in my game, and I think I can hang around for a long time, and I'm doing things to to better myself and and my game as well. Um, but the talent is so good and people are coming up left and right, and I'm not a bomber, and uh sometimes can struggle on the greens. So like it doesn't take a whole lot to like get in a funk and not come out of it. I mean, like Harry Higgs this year, like one of my good buddies, Like he struggled really almost all of all the calendar season. Um, so you see like how quickly that can happen. And I think I play out of fear a lot, like a fear of I have a fear of getting a real job. I don't want to do that. So I I sneaky practice more than people think I do. And I do a lot of things too, better myself as a golfer, and because I know, especially with these elevated purses and what we have playing for like if I have a good five year run here, I can probably be sept for life. And my wife and I are pretty conservad with money. We invest wisely. Uh, we're we'd like to invest in real estate. We think it's pretty Um, I think it's a good long term play. We don't fly private, we don't really spend a ton of money, so that is also we can retire, we can take care of our future kids. And but Yeah, I mean it is a very real thing. I've I've obviously had a solid run here, but a quick injury, a quick phone here there, like it happens fast. So I'm I'm aware of that, but I'm also confident in who I am. I guess. I mean, when when you see what happened to Will's La tourist, does that send a little shutter down your spine, because that that's gonna people of the most expensive back injuries in golf history. Right, he's number one of the FedEx couple list falls to thirty. Who knows what he gave up or how long that will last. I mean, how does that land emotionally for for a guy who's in the middle of his playing career. Yeah, I mean you see a lot of the chatter on on social media stuff about you know, oh, he could have taken the money and he'd be fine, like you hope, like, uh, you know, a back injury is always scary. Um, golfers get injured way more than than people think, and nagging stuff that that can you know, kind of hang around it and and linger and so it's yeah, like it does it does worry me? Um? Do we all have insurance Yeah, but it's nothing close to playing on tour, especially for Will, who is the world beater, is going to be one of the greats for a long time. Yeah, you just hope that he can come back, uh, you know, and and at least be the same, if not better. It's amazing, Joel, how many guys with your sort of profile can be real lifers just on the on the PGA tour and then even on the Senior tour. When you think about someone like a Paul Goydos or Jay Haas or Jim furik Um who don't look like Tiger and don't look like Rory and don't look like Will's alotoris. But just the way you described your life, I mean, it was such combination of realism and optimism that every golfer needs. And I take my hat off to you, but I also know that there's something about that kind of personality type and that kind of physique and that kind of approach to the game to life that can make it may not sound like that much, but Paul Goydos and Brad Faxton for that matter, a lot of other guys they lasted a long long time in this game, and it's hard, hard, hard, to do, and I mean Jeff would know that far far better than than any of us, but might might take my hat off here. The way you just describe the balance in your life and how and how you view your profession. Yeah, thank you. It's it's something that I guess. I'm I'm lucky. I understand I'm lucky, and I'm very grateful to be on the PGA tour. And I know how things can disappear quickly. Uh, And so yeah, I have a trainer at home, I have a pt on the road, like I do all of these things to take care of my body. I mean, John Daily famously said at one time, you can't pull fat um Like I don't have a beach body. I am not jacked, I'm not ripped. But it's something that I well, I've talked with my coach about and it's like, hey, you don't have any injury prone your golf swing like you're gonna be fine. And the way my body works and the way they chat with my trainer and like we make sure that all of that stuff is still strong. So injury is not a huge deal for me. Um. But a kid like I mean will swings it so fast and he's he's still limber and he's got all this stuff. But that's that's just part of the gig. Like I mean, ah, I wouldn't say I'm on a pitch count neither. But I don't have as many balls as a lot of you guys do either, And maybe you know, I could be slightly better if I do. But I've have a young golf body. I would say, compared it for my age, and you know, compared a lot of these other people. When you're young and you're just getting out that all you want to do is find every little one percenter here and there. And I think so often guys will go off track when they just look for those littlectra one percenters and go too hard. How how often do you see a guy change come back from the offseason with a change body, and he's now a vegan and he's like doing your gre every morning and stuff, and he has a great three months, and then two years later he doesn't have his card. You know, Um, it happens all the time. I just think you've got to sort of play golf sincerely, not seriously. You know, you've got to be all in, but it's it's not your whole life. Just do what you do. And that's like every year I went through to a the times when I struggled, when I was reaching for more than me, you know. But if I just played golf and I just jeff um usually it was pretty good. If I could go back and change anything, I wouldn't have taken it quite as seriously as I sincerely is the right way to be all in. But just play golf and leaned to have half a shot less a day, you know, And that's an extra million dollars at the end of the year, you know what I mean, Like, you just don't need to chase it so odd and you with two So we wife and I decided, I think three years ago, to do a dry January. We're gonna cut out alcohol, uh and cut out sugars. So it was fine. A couple of weeks, I get Sony Open and I'm playing okay, but Saturday hits and I uh, I have like a sugar breakdown because I'm used to having sugar and I UH and I literally like start like shaking, and I'm like what is going on? And I'm like, someone give me a coke in a Snicker's bar right now? Because I am losing it. So I played like two owls as a mess. Finally got it like and so that was that was kind of a wake up for me of like, hey, like you gotta it's one thing to be healthy to understand that, but it's like you have to kind of understand what makes you take as well. So that same one still didn't drink, didn't do anything was healthy, but just make sure I was eating more like the the golf course. And so we get the Pebble beach. I think I had missed every I made the cut and study, but missed the other cuts. And it was Friday night of Pebble I was playing poorly. I was frustrated. I was not happy. Called my coach with my wife and I'm like, hey, like this sucks. He's like, Joel, you need to go to the bar and you need to go get drunk tonight because you're gonna miss this cut anyways, but go have a night and you can, you know, prep for l a after that. And my wife is like, what, this is your golf coach telling you to do this? So uh, but Rob knows how he took. Rob played on the PGA Tour for a couple years he's played in US opens. Like this guy is awesome and he knows me very well, and so go out and have cocktails at night, make eight berries at Spyglass the next day, and then play well on Sunday at Pebble and I finished twelve. Go to rib I'm one back of the lead. On Sunday, finished fifth, and then two weeks later finished fifth at bay Hill, and I was like, okay, Like there's a balanced all of this, but I have to be who I am, and I'm if that means a couple of cocktails and eating sugar, then I'm gonna do that. I love that. But it also seems like you have a genuine love for for for golf, which some guys like to compete, some guys like the rewards, but you just seem to love the game. I think about a couple of years ago, I was of it abandoned dunes, and there was you and Gito and a couple of buddies at Sheep Ranch and we cross paths. It's actually one of the biggest regrets in my golfing life. I was one under on the first four holes, playing great. I saw you guys on the fifty part three the Foozl the five iron about thirty yards, Like god, damn it, my head. I do love golf like I love playing with my friends. I love listening to music. I love playing fast like if I hit the lottery. I don't know if I would played to her golf anymore. I don't know if I enjoy the travel that much. Um, But I would play golf nearly every day. I would join a couple of different golf clubs around town, and I would play all the time. I love played for a little bit of money. I'm likes is great. A couple of beers, music and play fast like I love golf. I love going to bandon dunes. Um. I love all those things. But I love like hanging out with my friends and it affords me I can play with my dad still it's great. Um, I can play with the guy who's Tony handicapp and I can play with other pro golfers like it doesn't matter. And I think that's a great thing about golf, and it's competing on to her fun. Yeah, it's a blast. Like you know, when you're playing well, there's nothing really better than than than being in a hunt on Sunday and and you know, it affords me a great life, but the most fun I have sometimes just playing with my buddies at home. Chill. How do you feel about having your wipe out on the golf course? He says, something you like, I'm sure she wants to have her own identity as well. How do you how do you balance that kind of thing? It's a good question. We've she's worked your entire life. She's worked since she's fourteen years old. Um, she's just works hard. That's just uh. And so when I got on tour, as you know, as better she traveled with it kind of keeps me in line a little bit. Um, I my life is better with her around. We're best friends. She's an incredible woman and we've developed a lot of great friendships on the road as well. So that was something. But also like she's Joel Damon's wife. Now she's not Lana anymore, and so um we are. We're due to have a kid in in January, so that'll be fun. But something, you know, we kind of try to make sure that golf is in our life, um, and especially for her, So I do better when she's on the road. Um. And we have a great time with it. She's she's a huge foodie. So we make sure we you know, at all the fun restaurants around and do that stuff. But um, it is something that we've talked about. It's like, hey, do we like what what can we get you at home? You know, kind of like what what is your passion? So it's something we were always kind of balancing and trying to figure out. She doesn't want to be she's not a she's not a tour wife. You know, there's to her wives and then there's wives of golfers. Um, she's not a tour wife. I see Jeff's filing down there because he's thinking, you guys all know there's many of them out there. So, uh, we're lucky that we've we've got to meet some great couples that were really close with We spent a lot of time with sharehouses together and all that stuff, and very lucky to be able to do that. But and I'm lucky that my wife is not a to her wife. I mean when I met her, I was on the mini tours making negative money. She was working two jobs. She was working sixteen eighteen hours a day, five six days a week to pay our bills and put food on the table. But always supported me and and and pushed me. And she still kicks me in the butt quite a bit when I get a little lazy at times. And you know today we was clean out the closet day and that is a mess. So, uh, you know, she she runs a pretty She lets me have all the fun I want. But when it's time to buckle up, she she makes sure that I'm I'm in the right seat for sure. She had a food blog at one point. Is that still a thing. Yeah, it's more of an Instagram account travel eats and treats. It's really fun. She just kind of takes pictures of And it's not like we go to like we don't go to fancy places all the time. We don't go always go to the best steakhouse. It's like what are the local za So we have spots. Now obviously Sea Islands one of our favorites. Um, they have you know, great stuff there. New Orleans is fun, but we we try to go to like holes in the wall and you know some some some dived ear places. Dona's driving dogs. Yeah, it's it's a lot more of that. And she's an incredible cook. So she cooks a lot at home and spoiled there, and so we go out and eat some good food, and she tries to, uh, you know, prep that for when when when we're at home. As the best and worst thing about playing on tour, I think is the food. You get to go out too restaurants every night. Um, like it's the best thing to go out in a different food and like you said, New Orleans and New York and Sandy saida monica is always a great wake. Um, great food. But then after a while sometimes you go to some towns where it's red robin, buggy king rot and like, god, this, let's just go on. We started rent a lot of houses the last couple years so we can cook at home as well. We choose, you know, there's two or three spotsiblit at, and then make sure we need at home as well, because you know, you go stretches three or four weeks in hotel rooms and you're not getting a home cooked meal. And that makes me like, that's the part I struggle with a lot, so rent houses with other golfers and and trying to make sure we we have some good meals at home as well. I was talking to Pat Perez at the live event in Portland, and he was talking about all the ways they take care of the players. He's like, and all the food. Man. I said, well, I've been in the player of dining. They feed you guys so much out on tour. He's like, yeah, but but only breakfast at lunch, we get dinner out here. I was like, oh jeez, yeah, that's what you need that. He was serious, he was dead serious. I was like, wow, okay, I mean I will say that the Travelers Been is one of the best events on tour and Thursday night, Uh, they do an awesome, huge dinner that all the families and the kids are out back playing with football all and all those things. But like people talk like that dinner on Thursday night is one of the fastest kind of it's awesome, all the food you could possibly want. Um, And people talk about that like that's a big thing for players on tours, And it's kind of funny how that works. Uh. It is nice come off the route when you finish late and you get to just walk into the clubhouse and you dinner real quick and then because you have a quick turnaround for the morning. So it's kind of funny how us golfers um can can need or want certain things that don't seem like that big of a deal, but they're kind of a big deal, kind of in the whole overall spectrum. Joel, what is your mindset when you're driving to the golf course and you know you're gonna be playing with the guy and I'm not asking you, of course to name names, but you're gonna play with the guy that you really just don't like. How do you how do you wrap your mind around the idea that, well, I'm gonna be with described for five hours, especially on a Thursday and Friday. Yeah, we had one recently this summer that it wasn't great and we knew it was gonna suck, and but we're both playing while it was in a bigger event and kind of when the parents came out, like Gino that night, I'm like, hey, do you know come prep with stories? It's we know it's me and you only tomorrow and like give you know bed be ready for for extra story time and you're almost just gonna like, I don't know, it's more like me against him to have a tale or me you know whoever that competitor is. But that's where I'm super lucky that my best friend is also my caddy. Like sometimes those days are more fun, Like you continue, I don't know just the stories we're gonna tell each other. And you know, you have, like you said, four or five hours out there together of not chatting with the other human. Um, it's it's almost fun at times because it happens so rarely. Now I'm pretty friendly with most people, and but there's always a couple of you know, and it's just not going to be that much fun. So that's where I'm lucky that that the genos there for me. Don't don't say that other player's name. But if you if you whisper only me and do you guys probably the Yeah, some guys just get under your skin and rot something. That's just just the way they You know, you've had an incident somewhere, or ah didn't carry the water, hasn't dropped it too far off or something. Um, you know, you have incidents and stuff that happened. You just it's kind of fun watching God's Square. I think sometimes sometimes it's fun to make the guy who makes you uncomfortable uncomfortable. Um, I get a challenge you know, yeah, I kind of started going that round a little bit more. I despise slow play, like slow play. I understand there's there's a slow play problem on tour, but mostly it's just the fields are too big, Like you just can't there's just too many people in the golf course, like there's gonna be the road, you know, traffic jams out there. But like slow played, And sometimes I'll I'll do the extra slow play for a couple of holes just to make sure we get behind, because it's not an issue for me, And so I like to watch those guys have to. When the rules fisher pulls up, I'm like, yes, let's go. I can finally be in my routine now. And you guys get a swarm a bit. This is good inside baseball. So how do you play extra slow? Oh, I'll go to the bathroom randomly and take a while, and I'll like grab of water after people hit and like mess around and there, and then I'll walk slower and I'll pretend like I didn't know I was away. That's a fun one because now I get to go through my routine, uh and be like, oh I didn't know, Like, oh, it's you me and so that's that was always just those things add up and uh sometimes you know, if you mark like a one ft put, that really pisces people off. So sometimes I'll get in that mode and just mark everything, um and to watch people. This is what slow players do naturally, Like you actually have to work at it and plan this out to go slower. This is what they do. That's how they're slow. It's unbelievable to be like, I think Gino is one of the quicker caddies, but he's I don't understand, like how like I just don't understand. Like you get a number, it takes like everyone says a range fighters gonna help you to play. There's no chance range fighters feed to play because you're either well, Gino can get a number ten seconds at most, and now we know it's between two clubs and you're probably only gonna hit one of them ent of the time anyway, so there's not a whole lot. Obviously it's a windy park three or something like I get there's times, but we call them time suckers, so they suck all of your time. And then all of a sudden, now you guys are on the clock where you guys are behind and now have a tough t shot coming up for a tough shot, and I need the extra thirty seconds all of a sudden, but they sucked all that time out earlier in the round, so now I don't have time when I've been playing twice as fast as him all day. That's the part that's frustrating at times. I always felt like slow play should be um an issue that the players hand out the penalties. There should be a tributal of current players, and it would there's there's gotta be away because you you guys know instinctively and you at the end of the round, you could point to seven different times that this person slowed you down. That rules officials never going to be there for all eighteen holes. Like it seems like there should be some frontier justice where the players could actually assess the penalties and that would that would have a monumental effect, right, Like, uh, you know, we have to work out some of the details, but I think that's amazing. I think that we should post like the slow players in the locker room. I think that there there could be something to that. I know that they say like the best, you know, we we we should police ourselves better. We should call out the slow players, but we're golfers. Were not confrontational, Like there's not a single human out there that know that it's confrontational. Like we're all in our own world. We kind of but no one's gonna step up and be like, hey, you're playing slow speed up. It's like you just kind of wait for the rules official to do it at the time. So I don't know, there's it's not only your best interest to get into it with a plague because then you're all stressed for the rest of the diet, that's exactly. And you know it's you're to take care of yourself and you know, play your best, and it's not good if your heart rate gets up because you call someone else out. That's just never a good end game for anything. So the solution is less players on the golf course. That's why you can play in three enough hours at Colonial on Saturday and Sunday because there's just less players and it doesn't take much time. So but um, when you have a hundred fifty six man field, it's just to be slow. We should pay the fastest players. They should be they should be like inside the pip they should be on the shot linked numbers. There should be the fastest players get bonus money down to the top ten, and then most improved from last year's numbers should get paid. Most of the good because some guys do improve and they work at it, and that is like, hey, thank you, Like you saw a problem and you fix it. I like that idea. That's a great, that's a good. Instead of punished slow play, let's reward fast play, you know, because so, I mean, these guys all go home. I mean jeal'sis he loves golf, and I'm you play with two players at home. They run around, they don't warm up, they all shoot sixty five taking two hours and five minutes. They just woke up and hit it and they all go loud, and they played better, every single one of them. As soon as it comes to Thursday. It's just two and a half minutes of shot to start on the club. Like you've been playing golf, your haul off, you're really good at it. D nineties and seven on and it's always been a seven on. I just did a seven on. What what what do you mean, like it's just crazy, you're exactly. I mean, you played a whisper rock lot. I mean, yeah, you'd show up, you grab a cocktail, you hit three balls and maybe two pots, and you're on the tea and you're rippling down the middle. And no one ever was like, oh, I didn't get a warm up today. I'm like, and then it's a two hour routine to get ready for the Thursday morning. And you're like, I don't, I don't understand it. That's crazy. But when you said that, no one's confrontations because all the assholes went to the live tour. But like, those are my words, not Jewels. Yeah, most most, there's a couple of others we could send over there. Uh, this is something I'm just curious how how different your answers will be. Um, because you're Jeff and Jewel, you're the two guys on this podcast. You can really play golf, like when you're standing over a ball, and of course there's always a million variables in a tournament, situation, whatever, But what what sensation are you trying to create in your body? Like what is the feel you're looking for? I'm really I've always been curious about Wow, I'm not going to tell you it's a sacred I'm trying to black out I'm trying to not do I'm I'm a I'm more of a field player anyways, but like I'm a like a one swing, thought and go type guy. And sometimes when I'm playing my best, if you ask a lot of players, what were you thinking about there? Like I wasn't. I was reacting to a target type thing, which is kind of a cliche answer, but um, I I don't know, You're It's the biggest qublem with golf. Raw, It's the biggest problem with golf is like you asked everyone else good players, but what were you doing when you do it? And then I describe it? But I went thinking of that when I was doing it. I was just doing it. You can't And how do you describe a feel in woods? Like words aren't appropriate to describe a feel. You can't describe what your golf swing feels like all Brad facts and can't describe what he's putting stroke feels like, I don't know, it just feels like I'm rolling the ball over there. You know, we're looking for what he's doing, but he's just putting. To him, it's just putting. Um And I mean there's books and websites and blogs and videos and sports scientists all trying to break down what we do in a golf swing. But really, the people who know how they do it, they just walk up and hit it, you know, and everyone cuts it up and piece us later on. It's just an impossible thing to do to describe what you feel. You know, we just play a lot and we just weren't like, how do you what do you feel when you throw a ball to someone? You know, you just throw a ball right, you aim at the glove and you just throw a ball. What are you feeling? What muscles sequence do you use when you throw a ball? And it's amazing how often your feel is not real. Now we have all the technology of all the track man's and all the other stuff, it's like, oh, I feel like I'm swinging right and it's still two left. And it's like, well, so if I tell someone I feel like I'm swinging right, but it's not actually what's going on? Like that doesn't match up at all. And I mean famously like the ball flight laws right, like Nicholas and Palmer and all those guys had it absolutely backwards, Like they said they closed the club phase? Are they point the club face? Where they wanted to go and they swing you know out, you know for drawing and fade. I'm like, that's absolutely opposite of how you do that. But I was even young, I was old enough for two I was taught to hit a fade by pointing your club at the target and then swinging left where really that's not how it works at all. So it's kind of amazing how feels aren't real, so and every you just kind of trust whatever your feel is that day or whatever it could be, and you just kind of roll with it. To the point you guys are making at the Open. This child you to play in the Open at Saint Andrews this year, I missed out. That's one of that's I think I might have another chance before I'm too old, but that was one of my that's gonna burn me not to play a hundred and fifties. That's andrewth Well, I hope you got another chance. I'm sure you will. But one of one of the an Alan knows this because we've talked about it, but one of the highlights for me was Trevino was there, of course as a former Open champion, and of course all the guys who are on the range. Ryan Harmon and John Rump way way way too young to even know the highlight reel of Lee Trevino. They just know that Lee Trevino is golf and and Brian Harmon particularly was really watching him closely. And afterwards I talked to me, said, what did you pick up on there? And he said, just like how much he feels golf and how mechanical I can get. And I don't consider Brian Harmon mechanical golfer at all, but uh, it was just interesting to hear him gravitate Trevino without necessarily even really understanding what yourvina is all about. But still you could tell, you know, for me, Savey was that way, Steve was that way before that. Uh, So it's interesting that how we're how we're drawn to these golfers, that Payne Stewart was that way, who have what what what Jeff is describing, just have it? You can't really and don't really don't even want to want to talk about it. Kind of change the subject for one second, because we won't have Joel and I won't have this opportunity all all that often Joel, I find Jay Monahan when I'm in his physical presence. You know, just the eyes alone are very impressive. He's intense. You know, he's got that New England bulldog quality about him. But you've seen him behind closed doors a lot lot more than than certainly Alan and I have. Um, how is he different behind closed doors than the than the Jay Monahan we see in press conferences? Uh? I think Jay's a rock star. Uh, he's he's quick with a joke. Behind closed doors, he's Uh, he's open. I would say he's he's he knows so much about each player, Like he asked about how my wife is doing, and um asked how my dog's doing, and um, uh, he he got to watch Uh so I'm on a Netflix show that's coming out next year and he got to watch kind of an I guess a rough cut of it, of of one of my episodes, I guess or uh. And he said such a nice note about that, like he's he's. I think he's just the best. Like he you could argue the business side and the politics. I don't really get into that much. I don't know. I'm not smart enough to figure it all out. So I think he is and the people that do all that stuff for fine. I think where he's doing a good job. I'll let him talk. But Jay has always been super personal. I've got to get a couple of dinners with him, um, But he's he's easy with a smile and typically a pretty good joke, and he is very aware and locked into to what's going on with almost all the players. I've been impressed with that part. But Joe, you're on the player Advisory Council, right, Like, you gotta know this stuff. You can't totally punt on all the politics and the deal making that like, it's your purview, man, your your leadership. I am not The board is the leadership, and I am just the guy sits in the room. Jeffrey Ever on the pack, Yeah a little bit. Yeah. So yeah, it's fun and you're not really part of it. You just had ideas to throw upstairs. Wrong. Yeah, that's exactly right. Like it's I pressed pretty hard for three years to be on the pack because I thought I'm gonna be on tour. I want to know how the business works. This is my job, and I feel like I should just know what's going on. And maybe I don't know if I've ever had this grandiose idea of what should be going on or maybe how to make it better. I just want to understand it better. And I kind of get in the room and it doesn't matter at all what I say or what I think, which is fine, but it's kind of fun to be in the room and when when people start talking, and there's some guys that are extra fun to listen to at times, and uh, we gotta poke fun of them after the meetings over. Just okay, don't don't see their names, you're just screet, but just give us their initials. H Uh No, I don't have enough to heal in me yet. Day uh So I become friendly with the Chad Mom. He's the Fox Media executive who's overseeing the Netflix show, and he's been telling me all year like people are gonna lose their minds when they see this um And I guess I'm a little dubious because I know, I know, I've seen tour players a lot through the years and and their their habits. But what is what about this show is going to be eye opening to the fans at home and how in your situation in particular, how open have you been and then how comfortable have you gotten having the cameras invade your life. I would say that I've been very open, probably to a fault. I mean, my wife and I we hosted a huge party Tuesday night. We call it Taco Tuesday. We've done it for years here for the Phoenix Open, but this year it was kind of a blowout. I mean we had seventy plus people here and bartender and all the stuff going. So that was kind of the first step. But they've been to our house three times now, like they've sat down my wife separate multiple times. So we've we've been very open to it. But well, I don't know, we're pretty open. I mean we're we don't have anything to hide, and we're pretty normal people, I would say comparatively a lot of tour players. We live a pretty normal lifestyle outside of kidding a golf ball and traveling a lot. So I think people are gonna be surprised at one how boring most tour players are, uh, like, oh, what do they do at home? It's got to be so much fun, Like no, it's really not like you kind of wake up, go to the gym, go play some golf, and that's it. Like there is and there's not I think they wanted this drama, and I haven't watched a lot of that F one Drive to Survive stuff, but there's always like sounds like they're always kind of like fighting amongst teams and there's always some drama going on, and um, there's just really not that on the PGA tur I know this year is you know, special with the live and and the stuff going on back and forth. But I just think I think they're gonna love like hearing some some comments and like what they're always like, oh what are the players talking about on the golf course where you stay, what you eat and like like simple things. So I think they're gonna be I don't I don't have they've they've been very the Netflix. They were very very quiet about how this is all going to me. They haven't like, hey, they don't really show you snippets. They don't. They just say, yeah, you guys are doing great. I heard Kepta is unbelievable on it. Um. I don't know if he led him into some of his grandiose things, but I've heard he's gonna be great, and I've heard that there's others that are like duds. So I don't know how it's all gonna shave out. I think they're just be surprised with some behind the scenes stuff, which is like in the locker room, they'll just kind of be like, we're just typical people. Um, we're just dudes like who play golf, and we talked about the same stuff that everyone else talks about, and um so I my understanding is they're not out to get anyone. They're not out to you know, show a bad side of nationally anyone, So you're probably gonna get the best of all of it. Um. But I'm kind of just as curious and kind of excited to see how this all unfolds. What would be an example of Brooks kept a good going grandiose. I don't even know. I played with them one time and he was super nice to me, but I imagine that I have I've heard so we've all heard stories. So I heard he likes Vegas. I've heard, uh, he likes have a good time at home as well. So but I mean everyone likes to drink a beer and hang out. So I don't know exactly what that means, but I've heard that he let them into his life quite a bit at home, which I guess I'm just excited to see as anyone else, well I have heard, you know, because that they needed they needed one bad guy wouldn't live, bad guy who just took the money and it was it wasn't for any you know, noble reasons. Just completely sold his soul. So maybe it's Brooks, maybe it's somebody else. We'll see what that'll that all out a little spice to it. Perhaps it's all in the editing, right, but they there's so they have so much content. I can imagine like what is left on the the floor, like the editing floor, Like you know, they shoot someone but smarter than me knows, but I don't. They shoot hours and hours to get like a minute that's gonna be on the actual TV show. So I don't know how that's all gonna work out. But um, I think I'm gonna be able to lay my head on the pill at night and be like I was who I was, And UM be curious what my wife said. She's she's pretty real at time. So I'm I try to cover up a couple of things every now and then. But also Gino has been miked up for multiple rounds, and so the stuff you can edit, you can edit it both ways, like super quickly on if you don't. If there's not a previous conversation, all of a sudden, he circles back something you just talked about, like that could be totally out of context, which is a really fun way to get out of things. I was taken out of context. But um I I'm hoping that they paint us in the best light that they can. Yeah. Well, and I think people anyone who follows golf even casually at this point knows that you and Gino are are thickest thieves. And if there's any bickery or trash talking amongst you, it's you're gonna survive it. It's it's not really Oh yeah, there won't be anything between us. I think it'll be mostly him probably making fun of me for hitting bad golf shots, or me, um yeah, telling him he was wrong. That happens a lot. That's great. Well, you've been extremely generous with your time, Joel. Before before we let him go, do you guys have any any final thoughts or final questions? Very very enjoyable, Joel. I've I've no need to be, you know, a highly intelligent, insightful player and uh I've admired you from Afar and I'll say hi in person the next time I see you. But I didn't know that was such a famous thing. I'm sorry that I brought it up. I had I known that, I wouldn't have. But I remember being very I'm sure Alan was like a barber. Everybody knows that thing. What do you that's not obscure? Uh uh, I'll just I'll just this one quick observation. You all talked about tribunals in different ways. I had a friend who died last year. He's a great guy named Michael M. Thomas, who was a longtime member at National Golf Links. And his thing was this, this follows from your discussion to slow play and who should get reward and who should get penalized. His thing was that every golf club should have a reverse admissions committee and someone is going to get thrown out of the club every year for merit or not. And I thought that was gonna keep people on their toes. And what you said, what you said Joel about fear, Uh, fear is some motivator in life, and uh, it's valuable, So keep being scared. It's good than yeah, alright on that note. We're gonna let you go, Joel, part of our our little podcast sneakiness. You hit the leave button and then we're gonna we're gonna Monday Morning quarterback. You're a period. We get to talk about you. Yeah, but thank you for your time. Yeah, thank you guys. This is fun. I like this format. This is a lot of fun. I think you guys have something here that's you know, there's a million podcasts out there, but this one's well, the three of you are are say, pretty pretty special, and you're getting this field. So it's it's kind of fun that you know, you have a surprise guest and you have no idea what's coming or or where where it's going to go. Good stuff. Thanks John, take care you have to press the lead button. Joel's the red. Uh. That was great. I mean, clearly one of the good guys. Right. I don't know anyone in golf it doesn't like Joel David Oh fantastic. I want to go and Smart thinks about golf. Um thinks about the two. Uh, it's not getting carried away with not getting carried away with his results or thing. He just loves playing golf on tour and he wants to keep Tona. That's just really this other guy who will play like you said that divid Thomas are the brad Facts and he looks like same as like he could be the guy who's that Jerry Kelly. You know, um caeps at all in balance, And I would from the little I know about his game, looks again, who could you get? You get him on if there was ever a US Open on a tree line golf course. Again that may never happen. He'd be a good guy. You know, he looks like he's out of the Jeff Ogilvy, Scott Simpson, Larry Nelson tradition of you know, keep the ball in front of you, play smart shots, go for it when you can, the middle of the greenham part five second shot. You know, two pup berties are great. Uh, seventy is great. And I could see this guy contending in the US Open. Yeah, he played great at Brooklyne. So I don't think that's as a bet as traditional as it gets. So I think that was a neat set up. Not to segue, but that was neat, wasn't it. Yeah? I know it's there's and you know this better than anybody. Jeff like guys get to tour and and a lot of them just sort of turned into a different person, right, But like I think part of what makes Joel appealing he's just the same guy he was seven years ago, when he was or ten years ago when he was struggling on the on the Canadian tour. And it's refreshing that even if somebody has success, these to exactly the same, because that that that seems in any wack of life, that seems a little rare. I'm look, I'm sure it happens everywhere, but on tour absolutely the measure of the guys when he plays really well for a period and when he plays really poorly for a period, like how they are. You know, some guys personalities and uh perspectives on things change depending on where they are on the money list. And he seems to be a guy who's going with the home every day, which is what you're really looking for, you know, in a in the locker room, you know you're gonna gravitate towards those guys who are consistent are really good guys. They're not getting carried away with what they are. They know that in two months time they might missing every cut you know, man, it's such a etherial fleeting thing, uh form when you play golf. Um, and he seems to have that own perspective. So yeah, good value. I hope the stays out there as long as you can. Yeah, you're here, Jeff. Have you ever played with Bill Murray or been around Bill Murray? I've been around Bill, Thank goodness. I haven't played with him at least in the tournament because I think that's a fair distraction. I mean, d I did unbelievable job playing with him for so long because I think it's a circus. But a few, yeah, a few of the events at the tournament over the years. He's um. He's an interesting character. The reason I bring the reason I bring him up with one of his things is you're going along in your career and then you hit it big very quickly, and Bill Murray says you're gonna be a dick for a year. That goes without saying the question is what happens at on the one year anniversary? That's awesome? All right. Well, on that note, we're gonna end another unit a fourth Thank you for listening, of course, Jeff Ogilvie, Michael Bamberger I'm Alan schip Nick. It's this is a fun little thing we have going here, and we appreciate your support. So we will be back in your ear with another episode soon. But that's all we got. Wishing Joel Damon happy trails. We appreciate his time and we'll try and we'll try on top. It's gonna be hard to get a more thoughtful guest, but that's our goal ever, try and get every episode better than one before it. I don't know if that's possible, but we'll do our best. So thanks for listening. That's all