Welcome to the Favorites of the Podcast presented by BET three six y five. We are part of the Volume Podcast Network. I am Chad Mollman of the Action Network. We are live from our Tommy John Holmes Studios. I'm joined as always by my co host, my companion, mikem Boudre, my BFF professional better Assignmon Hunter.

Welcome to the Favorites of the Podcast presented by BET three six y five. We are part of the Volume Podcast Network. I am Chad Mollman of the Action Network. We are live from our Tommy John Holmes Studios. I'm joined as always by my co host, my companion, mikem Boudre, my BFF professional better Assignmon Hunter.

And I saw I man Chadow.

And I saw I man Chadow.

What's going on?

What's going on?

Brother?

Brother?

Listen.

Listen.

I feel like I'm more of an interested student in the glorious, colorful, exciting past that is betting and the sports betting world. It's how I got into it right, Like I was never better first writer second. I was writer first who loved the psychology. I love the history, I love the story of the mob. I love sort of the characters who populate the world of sports betting. And so you know, we had Mitchell had come up with this great idea a few weeks ago where he did some great old gambling stories and some of which he stole from an excellent book called Roll the Bones. And today we are joined by the author of Roll the Bones, a long time professor at UNLV University Nevada, Las Vegas, the nation's pre eminent gambling historian Roll The Bones We Know is Matt's favorite book. So imagine Matt's delight when we found out our author and our guest has a brand new book that just came out in January called Something for Your Money, The History of Las Vegas Casinos, available now wherever books are sold. He's someone I've known for years. He was a regular and patient source when I would head out to Vegas during my ESPN days and was out there for a variety of stories. Welcome to the show, Dave Schwartz, Thanks for having me, Chad, thanks for having me listen. Your book has thrown Matt Mitchell for a loop. He can't believe this book exists. He can't believe it tells every story that he's been dying to know for years. Can you please, for Matt Mitchell's sake and for the sake of our listeners who are all avid interested parties in bedding, how did you end up doing this?

I feel like I'm more of an interested student in the glorious, colorful, exciting past that is betting and the sports betting world. It's how I got into it right, Like I was never better first writer second. I was writer first who loved the psychology. I love the history, I love the story of the mob. I love sort of the characters who populate the world of sports betting. And so you know, we had Mitchell had come up with this great idea a few weeks ago where he did some great old gambling stories and some of which he stole from an excellent book called Roll the Bones. And today we are joined by the author of Roll the Bones, a long time professor at UNLV University Nevada, Las Vegas, the nation's pre eminent gambling historian Roll The Bones We Know is Matt's favorite book. So imagine Matt's delight when we found out our author and our guest has a brand new book that just came out in January called Something for Your Money, The History of Las Vegas Casinos, available now wherever books are sold. He's someone I've known for years. He was a regular and patient source when I would head out to Vegas during my ESPN days and was out there for a variety of stories. Welcome to the show, Dave Schwartz, Thanks for having me, Chad, thanks for having me listen. Your book has thrown Matt Mitchell for a loop. He can't believe this book exists. He can't believe it tells every story that he's been dying to know for years. Can you please, for Matt Mitchell's sake and for the sake of our listeners who are all avid interested parties in bedding, how did you end up doing this?

Well? I grew up in Atlantic City, New Jersey, just around the time that they legalized gambling, so one of my earliest memories was them blowing up the old hotels and building casinos. So it's a kid. I was really curious, like, why do people gambling casinos? Why are they blowing up all the old hotels and stuff like that. So when I went to grad school, I decided to write a dissertation in that and that started me on the road to studying the history of gambling and casinos.

Well? I grew up in Atlantic City, New Jersey, just around the time that they legalized gambling, so one of my earliest memories was them blowing up the old hotels and building casinos. So it's a kid. I was really curious, like, why do people gambling casinos? Why are they blowing up all the old hotels and stuff like that. So when I went to grad school, I decided to write a dissertation in that and that started me on the road to studying the history of gambling and casinos.

And so you wrote Roll the Bones. You wrote Something for Your Money, which just came out. Both of them are packed with deliciously colorful stories about not just sort of the recent history of betting, but the entire history of betting. Gambling is so intertwined with the history of America, right from lotteries being how we paid for the American Revolution. Lotteries were how Harvard and Yale were funded and founded. This it is core to the American experience. All that said, what were your favorite stories when researching these books?

And so you wrote Roll the Bones. You wrote Something for Your Money, which just came out. Both of them are packed with deliciously colorful stories about not just sort of the recent history of betting, but the entire history of betting. Gambling is so intertwined with the history of America, right from lotteries being how we paid for the American Revolution. Lotteries were how Harvard and Yale were funded and founded. This it is core to the American experience. All that said, what were your favorite stories when researching these books?

Yeah, you know, it's kind of interesting. One fun story. It just shows how far we've come politically and in a lot of ways. So in the eighteen twenty eight election, which was the rematch of Andrew Jackson against John Quincy Adams, one of the scandals was that John Quincy Adams allegedly had bought a billiard's table for the White House and so there is an outrage that how dare he buy gambling equipment with public money? Ironic because Andrew Jackson was a huge, degenerate gambler, just like absolutely would love the bent On horses. Just totally sick, sick gambler. So it's kind of funny that they cus the New England John Quincy Adams the intellectual of being a gambler. You know, they tried to do some spin and these days, again the president or the candidate wouldn't speak for themselves, they would have people speak for them. So they tried to do some spin and say, well, you know, he didn't really buy it, he doesn't gamble, he just has it so that the visiting aristocrats have something to do and like, oh, now you're an aristocrat. Now you're better than us. So trying to make it better made it worse. And it was one of those things. You know, probably public frustration over the banking system, all those issues were the things that probably really got Jackson in the White House, but you know, this was a little part of it. So I think that's fascinating that gambling had a role in this very pivotal election eighteen twenty eight.

Yeah, you know, it's kind of interesting. One fun story. It just shows how far we've come politically and in a lot of ways. So in the eighteen twenty eight election, which was the rematch of Andrew Jackson against John Quincy Adams, one of the scandals was that John Quincy Adams allegedly had bought a billiard's table for the White House and so there is an outrage that how dare he buy gambling equipment with public money? Ironic because Andrew Jackson was a huge, degenerate gambler, just like absolutely would love the bent On horses. Just totally sick, sick gambler. So it's kind of funny that they cus the New England John Quincy Adams the intellectual of being a gambler. You know, they tried to do some spin and these days, again the president or the candidate wouldn't speak for themselves, they would have people speak for them. So they tried to do some spin and say, well, you know, he didn't really buy it, he doesn't gamble, he just has it so that the visiting aristocrats have something to do and like, oh, now you're an aristocrat. Now you're better than us. So trying to make it better made it worse. And it was one of those things. You know, probably public frustration over the banking system, all those issues were the things that probably really got Jackson in the White House, but you know, this was a little part of it. So I think that's fascinating that gambling had a role in this very pivotal election eighteen twenty eight.

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We're going to Joe's Bar on.

We're going to Joe's Bar on.

Weed Street, more popularly known as Joe's on Weed free Event, free drinks, Free, Live show Me, Simon, some other guests RSVP. To reserve your spot, follow the link in this episode's description, or just google Favorites, Podcast, Event Chicago and the RSVP site Pop right up. RSVP, Free Drinks, Free fun, Me and Simon hanging out with you, all of you listen. When you were thinking about this is a field of study, or thinking about what your first book was going to be, the next book was going to be, how you're teaching gambling as a professor, how do you frame the idea of risk and gambling into the evolution.

Weed Street, more popularly known as Joe's on Weed free Event, free drinks, Free, Live show Me, Simon, some other guests RSVP. To reserve your spot, follow the link in this episode's description, or just google Favorites, Podcast, Event Chicago and the RSVP site Pop right up. RSVP, Free Drinks, Free fun, Me and Simon hanging out with you, all of you listen. When you were thinking about this is a field of study, or thinking about what your first book was going to be, the next book was going to be, how you're teaching gambling as a professor, how do you frame the idea of risk and gambling into the evolution.

Of the country that we see today.

Of the country that we see today.

Well, really is an essential part. And if you look at it, you know, America, the United States, it really is a place of second chances, and that means that things didn't go well your first chance. So there is this idea that the United States is just tolerant a risk and that's how things happen. And sometimes it goes really well, sometimes it doesn't go so great, but there's always another shot.

Well, really is an essential part. And if you look at it, you know, America, the United States, it really is a place of second chances, and that means that things didn't go well your first chance. So there is this idea that the United States is just tolerant a risk and that's how things happen. And sometimes it goes really well, sometimes it doesn't go so great, but there's always another shot.

Matter, Simon, I don't want to monopolize. If one of you want to jump in, I know, Matt, you've got a lot of questions.

Matter, Simon, I don't want to monopolize. If one of you want to jump in, I know, Matt, you've got a lot of questions.

Dave, one of My favorite anecdotes from Roll the Bones is about William Penn. Is it true that the land that would become the state of Pennsylvania was potentially the repayment of a royal debt?

Dave, one of My favorite anecdotes from Roll the Bones is about William Penn. Is it true that the land that would become the state of Pennsylvania was potentially the repayment of a royal debt?

Yeah, you know, that is the story. Obviously I wasn't there so when when he signed that marker. But William Penn. So, William Penn was a Quaker leader anybody from Philly, you know, I went to school in Philly. So the statue of Billy Penn. So he was a Quaker. Quakers were not the most popular group in England at the time, and somehow he got this grant for Pennsylvania, which is a really lucrative part of what would become the colonies and later the US. And the story was Sir William Penn, William Penn, the Quaker's father was a gambling buddy of King Charles the Second and when he when Sir William Penn died, Charles the second owed him a lot of money and basically on his deathbed said just take care of my son and we're good. And supposedly that's where it came from. So that's how the Quakers ended up with Pennsylvania. And that's how we get to the eagles, I guess.

Yeah, you know, that is the story. Obviously I wasn't there so when when he signed that marker. But William Penn. So, William Penn was a Quaker leader anybody from Philly, you know, I went to school in Philly. So the statue of Billy Penn. So he was a Quaker. Quakers were not the most popular group in England at the time, and somehow he got this grant for Pennsylvania, which is a really lucrative part of what would become the colonies and later the US. And the story was Sir William Penn, William Penn, the Quaker's father was a gambling buddy of King Charles the Second and when he when Sir William Penn died, Charles the second owed him a lot of money and basically on his deathbed said just take care of my son and we're good. And supposedly that's where it came from. So that's how the Quakers ended up with Pennsylvania. And that's how we get to the eagles, I guess.

And that's that's the most remarkable thing about this book. That's like fifty five words in this book. I mean, you just move on to seven hundred other fascinating things. It really is a remarkable piece of literature.

And that's that's the most remarkable thing about this book. That's like fifty five words in this book. I mean, you just move on to seven hundred other fascinating things. It really is a remarkable piece of literature.

Do we have any idea where Charles the Second and William penn were gambling?

Do we have any idea where Charles the Second and William penn were gambling?

Yeah? Probably farrow fa r oh. That was the popular game back then, So probably Pharaoh, But it could also have been a number of card games, you know, not poker because I wasn't inventing the app, but a number of there are a number of earlier bidding card games that would eventually kind of evolve into poker. And the King had a marker like, yeah, well not literally, that's just my gambling. Yeah, Like having worked in the casino industry, you kind of use the terminal alogy basically as a gambling debt, not legally collectible, but morally collectible. And that's the thing about gamblers that they rather pay the gambling debt to prove that they're good for it than not. So yeah, Charles the Second was good for it in the end in Pennsylvania. Is the proof?

Yeah? Probably farrow fa r oh. That was the popular game back then, So probably Pharaoh, But it could also have been a number of card games, you know, not poker because I wasn't inventing the app, but a number of there are a number of earlier bidding card games that would eventually kind of evolve into poker. And the King had a marker like, yeah, well not literally, that's just my gambling. Yeah, Like having worked in the casino industry, you kind of use the terminal alogy basically as a gambling debt, not legally collectible, but morally collectible. And that's the thing about gamblers that they rather pay the gambling debt to prove that they're good for it than not. So yeah, Charles the Second was good for it in the end in Pennsylvania. Is the proof?

Well, Simon as a billy adjacent native. This is in your territory. It is part of your history now to know that you are doing the right thing in your community by gambling as much as you possibly can.

Well, Simon as a billy adjacent native. This is in your territory. It is part of your history now to know that you are doing the right thing in your community by gambling as much as you possibly can.

And it's crazy to think everything GE's birth from the pen name Penn Medicine. I mean obviously, like you just talked about, our capitol building has William Penn standing on the top of it.

And it's crazy to think everything GE's birth from the pen name Penn Medicine. I mean obviously, like you just talked about, our capitol building has William Penn standing on the top of it.

And it's pretty insane to think not that filled Upia is just known for betting.

And it's pretty insane to think not that filled Upia is just known for betting.

But at its core, I mean, I can't tell you many street bookies I knew Chad growing up, where every neighborhood, every block has a different guy, And it's tarting to make more sense. You really think about the state and how it was founded and the people that live there, and because that was probably I wouldn't say common knowledge right back then, but people must have known. I mean, everyone just talks to everyone's at everyone's business. This is before obviously newspapers and everything like that. I mean the word must have spread around town about how Pennsylvania got birthed?

But at its core, I mean, I can't tell you many street bookies I knew Chad growing up, where every neighborhood, every block has a different guy, And it's tarting to make more sense. You really think about the state and how it was founded and the people that live there, and because that was probably I wouldn't say common knowledge right back then, but people must have known. I mean, everyone just talks to everyone's at everyone's business. This is before obviously newspapers and everything like that. I mean the word must have spread around town about how Pennsylvania got birthed?

Am I assuming that right?

Am I assuming that right?

Oh? Yeah? And I think people knew how big, you know, Charles the Second was into a lot of that they spent a lot of time in exile in France. The French then were the notorious gamblers, so kind of picked up that habit. And it's kind of interesting too when you look at people who don't like gambling, which there are people for a while in England they said, well, this isn't a genuine English hobby, it's a French perversion that came into England. So it's kind of funny how that is spun, you know, and we see that happen throughout history.

Oh? Yeah? And I think people knew how big, you know, Charles the Second was into a lot of that they spent a lot of time in exile in France. The French then were the notorious gamblers, so kind of picked up that habit. And it's kind of interesting too when you look at people who don't like gambling, which there are people for a while in England they said, well, this isn't a genuine English hobby, it's a French perversion that came into England. So it's kind of funny how that is spun, you know, and we see that happen throughout history.

Well, look, you must have seen this through many stages in your research, whether it was you know, England in the sixteen hundreds to sports betting and that being the third rail of gambling. I remember sitting with you in the UNLV library and I think in the building where your department is, and we were talking about Delaware in New Jersey and how Delaware at the time that legalized New Jersey had just filed suit to get passed, but the Professional Amateur Sports Protection Act overturned.

Well, look, you must have seen this through many stages in your research, whether it was you know, England in the sixteen hundreds to sports betting and that being the third rail of gambling. I remember sitting with you in the UNLV library and I think in the building where your department is, and we were talking about Delaware in New Jersey and how Delaware at the time that legalized New Jersey had just filed suit to get passed, but the Professional Amateur Sports Protection Act overturned.

And you use the.

And you use the.

Phrase sports betting is the third rail of all the betting types, lottery, legal poker, legal casinos, Native American casinos, all of that. What do you think finally turned. In your point of view, from your very deep knowledge and base of perspective, what do you think finally turned for sports betting.

Phrase sports betting is the third rail of all the betting types, lottery, legal poker, legal casinos, Native American casinos, all of that. What do you think finally turned. In your point of view, from your very deep knowledge and base of perspective, what do you think finally turned for sports betting.

Well, it's interesting because if you look back in the nineteen fifties, when people in the government were researching, well what is gambling and how's it happening? It was mostly illegal and I remember I think it might have been something that can him out of New York City or somewhere. But this government study said, you know the numbers, which was the illegal lotteries, and policy like, that's the worst. It's the most exploitative sports betting. At least a better has a chance, but this is just the worst. And ten years later, what did states legalize lotteries? And at the time there's a lot of debate, well, if we were to legalize sports betting, what happens if the betters get lucky? Now we owe money. So governments didn't want to do it because they didn't want to take on that liability. What happened was the private casino companies, basically because they have the casino itself to offset that, and they can use a sports betting to draw people in. And the old model in the new model it's just another revenue source because it's online. You know. Basically, once they got behind it, thing shifted. But before that, states weren't really eager to legalize it because you know, I mean, just imagine what it would be like if state in New Jersey or Pennsylvania or anyone was running, you know, running a sports book. We would be very different.

Well, it's interesting because if you look back in the nineteen fifties, when people in the government were researching, well what is gambling and how's it happening? It was mostly illegal and I remember I think it might have been something that can him out of New York City or somewhere. But this government study said, you know the numbers, which was the illegal lotteries, and policy like, that's the worst. It's the most exploitative sports betting. At least a better has a chance, but this is just the worst. And ten years later, what did states legalize lotteries? And at the time there's a lot of debate, well, if we were to legalize sports betting, what happens if the betters get lucky? Now we owe money. So governments didn't want to do it because they didn't want to take on that liability. What happened was the private casino companies, basically because they have the casino itself to offset that, and they can use a sports betting to draw people in. And the old model in the new model it's just another revenue source because it's online. You know. Basically, once they got behind it, thing shifted. But before that, states weren't really eager to legalize it because you know, I mean, just imagine what it would be like if state in New Jersey or Pennsylvania or anyone was running, you know, running a sports book. We would be very different.

Well wait a second, that's I had no idea that was the case my understanding, and I didn't do any research on this.

Well wait a second, that's I had no idea that was the case my understanding, and I didn't do any research on this.

I just sort of assumed it was that.

I just sort of assumed it was that.

Sports betting never really got traction because of moral issues, and you're saying it had nothing to do with it. It was really about the fear that they would all of a sudden be on the hook for customer friendly outcomes as they call them today, and have to pay out and all of a sudden, instead of having a surplus, they've got a debt.

Sports betting never really got traction because of moral issues, and you're saying it had nothing to do with it. It was really about the fear that they would all of a sudden be on the hook for customer friendly outcomes as they call them today, and have to pay out and all of a sudden, instead of having a surplus, they've got a debt.

Yeah, well I think that, And again I'm not in their mind, so I wasn't there back then. I don't know what they did. But if we look at it, look at the different forms of gambling. Most states legalized lotteries first highest margin, you know, then went into casinos. Ah, they can tax it. They can make decent money. Sports betting was last because that has the narrowest margin, and again, you know you don't have that. It's not as dependable. So when they're doing it or budgetary reasons like okay, we're going to generate with a lottery, we can generate this much money a year to fund the schools. Sports betting, you know, not that stable. So I don't think there's a lot of people rushing to legalize it back then.

Yeah, well I think that, And again I'm not in their mind, so I wasn't there back then. I don't know what they did. But if we look at it, look at the different forms of gambling. Most states legalized lotteries first highest margin, you know, then went into casinos. Ah, they can tax it. They can make decent money. Sports betting was last because that has the narrowest margin, and again, you know you don't have that. It's not as dependable. So when they're doing it or budgetary reasons like okay, we're going to generate with a lottery, we can generate this much money a year to fund the schools. Sports betting, you know, not that stable. So I don't think there's a lot of people rushing to legalize it back then.

Hmm.

Hmm.

It's always about the money, it's never about the morals. Dave Simon. Listeners are uncomfortable in their daily lives. They lack the confidence to achieve greatness. What they ask us can they do? How can they transform their lives.

It's always about the money, it's never about the morals. Dave Simon. Listeners are uncomfortable in their daily lives. They lack the confidence to achieve greatness. What they ask us can they do? How can they transform their lives.

For the better?

For the better?

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You know.

You know.

In your book, Dave, you wrote a little bit about the Keyfaber hearings. For those who don't know, I'll say it quickly so I can set up the question. In the nineteen early nineteen fifties, estes Keifaber, who was a cenator from Tennessee, very ambitious guy. There was a lot of consternation within communities, especially big cities, about the influence of organized crime, and so he set up this two years of investigations, going city to city on a tour where he had subpoenaed the organized crime bosses and they were being forced to testify about their business and everything that was going on. To me, one of the biggest things that came out of it was the realization by the public that sports betting was the biggest revenue driver for organized crime. And to me, Dave, I don't know if you have studied and seen differently, that felt like a death blow for sports betting. That felt like a fun thing people did in the community to being sort of a nefarious, dangerous thing, and it changed that business is trajectory, yeah.

In your book, Dave, you wrote a little bit about the Keyfaber hearings. For those who don't know, I'll say it quickly so I can set up the question. In the nineteen early nineteen fifties, estes Keifaber, who was a cenator from Tennessee, very ambitious guy. There was a lot of consternation within communities, especially big cities, about the influence of organized crime, and so he set up this two years of investigations, going city to city on a tour where he had subpoenaed the organized crime bosses and they were being forced to testify about their business and everything that was going on. To me, one of the biggest things that came out of it was the realization by the public that sports betting was the biggest revenue driver for organized crime. And to me, Dave, I don't know if you have studied and seen differently, that felt like a death blow for sports betting. That felt like a fun thing people did in the community to being sort of a nefarious, dangerous thing, and it changed that business is trajectory, yeah.

Because if you look at the history of illegal gambling, right back in the twenties, when we know organized crime was doing a lot of stuff, you would see if you go back in the newspaper archives, we'll talk about local rackets, boss. So there was like the Brooklyn rackets and the Waterfront rackets, and the Newark rackets and the Philly rackets. It was all local. Okay, what happens in nineteen fifteen fifty one, and the keyf offer is okay, he needs an issue. He wants to be president, he needs an issue. Kind of went into antitrust stuff, but that didn't excite people. McCarthy he had already taken anti communism, so that's gone, Well, what about gambling. Well, wait, the local gambling you're doing with your bookie, that's actually part of this national or even international crime syndicate. So it's a national issue, so Congress has jurisdiction because across the state lines, and that's where it really shifted. That's where you had the idea of the mafia as a national organization or even international organization. Before that, it was all local, you know. And again, it's kind of fun to go back in the archives and see when they start using that language. So yeah, it did change the narrative because originally people said, well, yeah, I'm just putting down a two dollar bet. And there's a book in the archives called a two dollars bet means murder, Wow, And it's trying to tell people, yeah, your harmless sports betting is actually funding organized crime, and that did shift the narrative. You're absolutely right.

Because if you look at the history of illegal gambling, right back in the twenties, when we know organized crime was doing a lot of stuff, you would see if you go back in the newspaper archives, we'll talk about local rackets, boss. So there was like the Brooklyn rackets and the Waterfront rackets, and the Newark rackets and the Philly rackets. It was all local. Okay, what happens in nineteen fifteen fifty one, and the keyf offer is okay, he needs an issue. He wants to be president, he needs an issue. Kind of went into antitrust stuff, but that didn't excite people. McCarthy he had already taken anti communism, so that's gone, Well, what about gambling. Well, wait, the local gambling you're doing with your bookie, that's actually part of this national or even international crime syndicate. So it's a national issue, so Congress has jurisdiction because across the state lines, and that's where it really shifted. That's where you had the idea of the mafia as a national organization or even international organization. Before that, it was all local, you know. And again, it's kind of fun to go back in the archives and see when they start using that language. So yeah, it did change the narrative because originally people said, well, yeah, I'm just putting down a two dollar bet. And there's a book in the archives called a two dollars bet means murder, Wow, And it's trying to tell people, yeah, your harmless sports betting is actually funding organized crime, and that did shift the narrative. You're absolutely right.

Yeah, there's nothing like a complete and total extraction from your two dollars bet to that being the reason why the person down the street is getting knocked off.

Yeah, there's nothing like a complete and total extraction from your two dollars bet to that being the reason why the person down the street is getting knocked off.

I mean, I've been killed by a small bet before it's done me that much.

I mean, I've been killed by a small bet before it's done me that much.

That makes sense.

That makes sense.

One of my kind of favorite themes of the of both your books.

One of my kind of favorite themes of the of both your books.

But there's so much.

But there's so much.

There's so much gambling embroiled in parts of American history and American culture and really international world history. Going back hundreds of years. But one of my favorite anecdotes was that in the middle of the nineteenth century, the first major regulatory act in congressional history, so tigers have been around for like whatever eighty years, related to boiler construction and steamboat licensing. Could you explain why that was related to gambling?

There's so much gambling embroiled in parts of American history and American culture and really international world history. Going back hundreds of years. But one of my favorite anecdotes was that in the middle of the nineteenth century, the first major regulatory act in congressional history, so tigers have been around for like whatever eighty years, related to boiler construction and steamboat licensing. Could you explain why that was related to gambling?

Okay, so we all know this isn't the golden age of steamboats all that fun stuff. Also people use steamboats, they became gambling tools. People both gambled on them, you know, playing all kinds of aims, especially poker, but also people would bet which steamboat was going to get there first. The captains were cut in on it so they would have an incentive, and they found that captains and the crew would push the steamship so hard that boilers exploded, and they said, this is too much risk. We've got to cut back in this. So it is amazing how something like that, And it also shows how universal that gambling gene is, where like literally the vessel you're riding on with the high pressure steam that is deadly that you know has killed people before, you're still going to overload it just to get that edge. That is wild. It's crazy that.

Okay, so we all know this isn't the golden age of steamboats all that fun stuff. Also people use steamboats, they became gambling tools. People both gambled on them, you know, playing all kinds of aims, especially poker, but also people would bet which steamboat was going to get there first. The captains were cut in on it so they would have an incentive, and they found that captains and the crew would push the steamship so hard that boilers exploded, and they said, this is too much risk. We've got to cut back in this. So it is amazing how something like that, And it also shows how universal that gambling gene is, where like literally the vessel you're riding on with the high pressure steam that is deadly that you know has killed people before, you're still going to overload it just to get that edge. That is wild. It's crazy that.

You report that in one year five hundred people died from this, and in.

You report that in one year five hundred people died from this, and in.

Congress is like, holy shit, guys, you keep blowing up your own passengers because you can't just erasing your steamboats. We are going to make our first ever regulatory action' hilarious.

Congress is like, holy shit, guys, you keep blowing up your own passengers because you can't just erasing your steamboats. We are going to make our first ever regulatory action' hilarious.

And obviously you know what tremendous about about Las Vegas and its history, and we'll dive into that shortly. But those teamboats obviously related to the big business of New Orleans. Could you explain briefly, you know, kind of how important New Orleans was to the development of American gambling pre Las Vegas.

And obviously you know what tremendous about about Las Vegas and its history, and we'll dive into that shortly. But those teamboats obviously related to the big business of New Orleans. Could you explain briefly, you know, kind of how important New Orleans was to the development of American gambling pre Las Vegas.

Yeah, I mean, New Orleans is huge. It was really America's first gambling capital, without a doubt. You had the French, you had the Spanish, you had Native Americans, you had African cultures coming in there. So you also had a lot of people, a lot of money. It was a thriving port. So it really is where America. If people in America wanted to gamble, most gambling was happening there. They experimented with legal gambling houses really early on in the nineteenth century. The games of poker and crafts were both both born in New Orleans or near New Orleans. So really New Orleans in the nineteenth century was the capital of gambling in America without a doubt.

Yeah, I mean, New Orleans is huge. It was really America's first gambling capital, without a doubt. You had the French, you had the Spanish, you had Native Americans, you had African cultures coming in there. So you also had a lot of people, a lot of money. It was a thriving port. So it really is where America. If people in America wanted to gamble, most gambling was happening there. They experimented with legal gambling houses really early on in the nineteenth century. The games of poker and crafts were both both born in New Orleans or near New Orleans. So really New Orleans in the nineteenth century was the capital of gambling in America without a doubt.

Incredible.

Incredible.

Yeah, I just want to piggyback off that. I've thought a lot about this and you know, gambling. To me, it's a really important part of my life. And you know, you seem like some of knows all about I mean, every little detail, every story. And you know, a story I love that I read a long time ago is about Native Americans didn't have a word for lie, but they did have a word for bet. And I always thought that's such a human thing, like at our core, I mean, think of the earliest man. What you said was, Buddy, I bet you I can race you home and beat you in a race where I can kill that animal before you can kill it, like a little bet like that. What is your discovery of the earliest bets ever written or made in human history?

Yeah, I just want to piggyback off that. I've thought a lot about this and you know, gambling. To me, it's a really important part of my life. And you know, you seem like some of knows all about I mean, every little detail, every story. And you know, a story I love that I read a long time ago is about Native Americans didn't have a word for lie, but they did have a word for bet. And I always thought that's such a human thing, like at our core, I mean, think of the earliest man. What you said was, Buddy, I bet you I can race you home and beat you in a race where I can kill that animal before you can kill it, like a little bet like that. What is your discovery of the earliest bets ever written or made in human history?

What goes way? It goes back really far. And I've got another layer of this, you know, so in the earth, basically for a lot of human history, people weren't living in settlements, the first settlements, you know, we find evidence of gambling, you know, primitive dice, things like that, and kind of the funny thing is so like if we would say, and I'm not saying this is the absolute year, but if we say the earliest dice were ten thousand years old, the earliest cheating dice crooked dice, or like nine and ninety nine years old, So cheating was also part of it a long ways away, and it's kind of funny. Like one of the more poignant stories is the when Mount Vesuvius erupted and POMPEII was engulfed in ash, you know, in the taverns. You know, there was this one thing where it was a gambling table and they had the guy's debts were like just scratched up on the wall and they're just thinking like suddenly there's all the ash and the lava coming down, and this guy's last thing is like, oh man.

What goes way? It goes back really far. And I've got another layer of this, you know, so in the earth, basically for a lot of human history, people weren't living in settlements, the first settlements, you know, we find evidence of gambling, you know, primitive dice, things like that, and kind of the funny thing is so like if we would say, and I'm not saying this is the absolute year, but if we say the earliest dice were ten thousand years old, the earliest cheating dice crooked dice, or like nine and ninety nine years old, So cheating was also part of it a long ways away, and it's kind of funny. Like one of the more poignant stories is the when Mount Vesuvius erupted and POMPEII was engulfed in ash, you know, in the taverns. You know, there was this one thing where it was a gambling table and they had the guy's debts were like just scratched up on the wall and they're just thinking like suddenly there's all the ash and the lava coming down, and this guy's last thing is like, oh man.

I'm down, and then he's like, great, I'm off the hook. That's I was actually thinking. The guy who won is like, are you freaking kidding me? I finally hit a streak and now we're all going under.

I'm down, and then he's like, great, I'm off the hook. That's I was actually thinking. The guy who won is like, are you freaking kidding me? I finally hit a streak and now we're all going under.

This is ridiculous.

This is ridiculous.

Yeah, really bad beat. Volcanic bad beat for sure, Yeah, volcanic. So yeah, I can't get worse than that.

Yeah, really bad beat. Volcanic bad beat for sure, Yeah, volcanic. So yeah, I can't get worse than that.

That was good.

That was good.

One thing I wanted to also point out from your book is you have this recurring theme which I really enjoyed, kind of the Simon's point of you, like, you go back to the earliest bets made in humankind, but all the way up to the present day. You keep describing societies that are getting more and more advanced. Gambling exists because it's people are congregating. Then gambling is frowned upon, that it is outlawed, and that it is found to be totally irrepressible, and that it is eventually tolerated or regulated, but that it happens in every corner of the world over and over and over again for thousands of years. So looking back at the history of gambling kind of overall and maybe Las Vegas specifically, our audience is mostly sports betters, Like, what are the lessons that our audience can take away.

One thing I wanted to also point out from your book is you have this recurring theme which I really enjoyed, kind of the Simon's point of you, like, you go back to the earliest bets made in humankind, but all the way up to the present day. You keep describing societies that are getting more and more advanced. Gambling exists because it's people are congregating. Then gambling is frowned upon, that it is outlawed, and that it is found to be totally irrepressible, and that it is eventually tolerated or regulated, but that it happens in every corner of the world over and over and over again for thousands of years. So looking back at the history of gambling kind of overall and maybe Las Vegas specifically, our audience is mostly sports betters, Like, what are the lessons that our audience can take away.

Well, it's basically, I mean, there's a couple of them. First of all, people have always gambled. I mean, obviously not everybody, but a lot of people have always gambled. But things do go in cycles, and there's no reason to think that people are going to keep on betting the way they're betting right now, you know, because if we look back, just looking at casinos in Vegas in the sixties, and we're just going to go back sixty years, which is not that much time historically, but like sixties, they're mostly playing craps. Blackjack is just starting to get big because skill play is just starting to get popular, but it's still mostly craps. There's maybe a couple of dozen slot machines, is not that big a deal, and the casinos are a lot smaller. Go to the nineties, giant air conditioned slot machine houses, just total slot machines. But the slot machines look really different than they are today. They're mostly steppers, a couple of video machines, but mostly steppers versus today. Less focus in the gambling, more focus and everything else. You've got electronic table games, You've got all kinds of things evolving, you know, And that's and think about how sports betting has changed too with the advent of technology, and now you don't have to go to the bookie bookies in your phone, so there's just a lot of that going on. And I think my other lesson is, you know, they say the house always wins, Usually the house does but when it does, and I this might be kind of ominous for sports betting. You know, when the house doesn't win, the house tends to change the rules. So if people find something, find an exploit, they will change the rules to prevent that because the house has to win otherwise they don't stay in business.

Well, it's basically, I mean, there's a couple of them. First of all, people have always gambled. I mean, obviously not everybody, but a lot of people have always gambled. But things do go in cycles, and there's no reason to think that people are going to keep on betting the way they're betting right now, you know, because if we look back, just looking at casinos in Vegas in the sixties, and we're just going to go back sixty years, which is not that much time historically, but like sixties, they're mostly playing craps. Blackjack is just starting to get big because skill play is just starting to get popular, but it's still mostly craps. There's maybe a couple of dozen slot machines, is not that big a deal, and the casinos are a lot smaller. Go to the nineties, giant air conditioned slot machine houses, just total slot machines. But the slot machines look really different than they are today. They're mostly steppers, a couple of video machines, but mostly steppers versus today. Less focus in the gambling, more focus and everything else. You've got electronic table games, You've got all kinds of things evolving, you know, And that's and think about how sports betting has changed too with the advent of technology, and now you don't have to go to the bookie bookies in your phone, so there's just a lot of that going on. And I think my other lesson is, you know, they say the house always wins, Usually the house does but when it does, and I this might be kind of ominous for sports betting. You know, when the house doesn't win, the house tends to change the rules. So if people find something, find an exploit, they will change the rules to prevent that because the house has to win otherwise they don't stay in business.

Oh, for sure, that's another recurring theme throughout throughout history.

Oh, for sure, that's another recurring theme throughout throughout history.

Well, that's also why the States didn't want to be in that business, right They worried that they all of a sudden would have a season where they owe money instead of are taking in money.

Well, that's also why the States didn't want to be in that business, right They worried that they all of a sudden would have a season where they owe money instead of are taking in money.

And what do you do with you know, that hole in the budget.

And what do you do with you know, that hole in the budget.

Sports betting specifically, why do you think, I guess from your point of view, you said it'll change.

Sports betting specifically, why do you think, I guess from your point of view, you said it'll change.

How is it different than what you thought it.

How is it different than what you thought it.

Would be when it was legalized, even in these past, say seven years.

Would be when it was legalized, even in these past, say seven years.

Well, it's really interesting because if you look at the history of sports betting in Nevada, traditionally it was maybe and I'm saying from the eighties onward, when you had the advent of casinos being in sports betting, it was maybe one percent of total Nevada gaming revenue, maybe one percent. You know, then in the early twenty tens, we get up to two percent and kind of into three percent. So it really is something in Nevada. It really is an amenity to bring people in. The whole idea that they had is I don't want my hot blackjack player leaving to go someplace else to place a bet, so I'm gonna have this here even if it doesn't make money. And you know, every slot manager in the world is saying, if I had that space that the sports book has or the polkroom has, I could make the revenue to make a year. I could make in a month, you know that, And like true, but then they're gonna leave to go bet in someplace else, and they're they're gonna gamble there. So they really did do as amenity. What we've seen, you know, in the past ten years or even less, is the emergence of sports betting as a revenue source in its own through online and mobile, which is something we have not seen in Nevada before or so that's totally different. And it did you know way back when, back in twenty ten, when I was trying to extrapolate, well, how big of a market is it, Like, well, if it's two percent, it'll be this and it turned out to be a lot bigger than that because behaviors changed. So that's just proof that it happens.

Well, it's really interesting because if you look at the history of sports betting in Nevada, traditionally it was maybe and I'm saying from the eighties onward, when you had the advent of casinos being in sports betting, it was maybe one percent of total Nevada gaming revenue, maybe one percent. You know, then in the early twenty tens, we get up to two percent and kind of into three percent. So it really is something in Nevada. It really is an amenity to bring people in. The whole idea that they had is I don't want my hot blackjack player leaving to go someplace else to place a bet, so I'm gonna have this here even if it doesn't make money. And you know, every slot manager in the world is saying, if I had that space that the sports book has or the polkroom has, I could make the revenue to make a year. I could make in a month, you know that, And like true, but then they're gonna leave to go bet in someplace else, and they're they're gonna gamble there. So they really did do as amenity. What we've seen, you know, in the past ten years or even less, is the emergence of sports betting as a revenue source in its own through online and mobile, which is something we have not seen in Nevada before or so that's totally different. And it did you know way back when, back in twenty ten, when I was trying to extrapolate, well, how big of a market is it, Like, well, if it's two percent, it'll be this and it turned out to be a lot bigger than that because behaviors changed. So that's just proof that it happens.

Yeah, I remember when I first started going out to Vegas and I was working on the odds, and I would get the numbers from the Nevada Gaming Control Board of the total handle and then the hold for these sports books, and I think, correct me if I'm wrong, late nineties, early two thousands, it would be like six million a year in total revenue for every sports book in the state of Nevada. I'm like, why the fuck am I writing this book because this thing doesn't matter at all, like we thought it was a big deal, and it means nothing with the overall scheme of what really is important in the state of Nevada. But it has always sports betting since really the state of Nevada legalized it in the seventies. I think has had this outsized impact on the rest of the industry in terms of not its importance, but a little bit of its glamour.

Yeah, I remember when I first started going out to Vegas and I was working on the odds, and I would get the numbers from the Nevada Gaming Control Board of the total handle and then the hold for these sports books, and I think, correct me if I'm wrong, late nineties, early two thousands, it would be like six million a year in total revenue for every sports book in the state of Nevada. I'm like, why the fuck am I writing this book because this thing doesn't matter at all, like we thought it was a big deal, and it means nothing with the overall scheme of what really is important in the state of Nevada. But it has always sports betting since really the state of Nevada legalized it in the seventies. I think has had this outsized impact on the rest of the industry in terms of not its importance, but a little bit of its glamour.

Would you say that.

Would you say that.

Yeah, And obviously there's a lot more illegal betting going on back then, which I don't think we even you know, for a while, the FBI estimated it. Then at some point they just kind of gave up. I learned that when I was researching another book, covering the Wire, which was about online gaming gambling prohibition. So it's kind of interesting to see how they eventually said, we don't know how much illegal gambling there is, illegal sports betting there is going on. We know it's big, so's that's kind of the uh, yeah, that's kind of where that is. But Nevada, did you know? Originally yeah, they did views it as an amenity, but now it's becoming a revenue source in its own right.

Yeah, And obviously there's a lot more illegal betting going on back then, which I don't think we even you know, for a while, the FBI estimated it. Then at some point they just kind of gave up. I learned that when I was researching another book, covering the Wire, which was about online gaming gambling prohibition. So it's kind of interesting to see how they eventually said, we don't know how much illegal gambling there is, illegal sports betting there is going on. We know it's big, so's that's kind of the uh, yeah, that's kind of where that is. But Nevada, did you know? Originally yeah, they did views it as an amenity, but now it's becoming a revenue source in its own right.

This is a sloppyly awarded question, apologies, but like you you could describe a let's say, a thousand years of betting activity across the whole world, right, Yeah, all of them, all of the betting activity in every form, always involved other human parties, and almost always leaving your home, and now only in the last like what decade you no longer need both of those things. How enormous of a change is that in the from a cultural standpoint to like what betting is and how intrinsically human the activity is.

This is a sloppyly awarded question, apologies, but like you you could describe a let's say, a thousand years of betting activity across the whole world, right, Yeah, all of them, all of the betting activity in every form, always involved other human parties, and almost always leaving your home, and now only in the last like what decade you no longer need both of those things. How enormous of a change is that in the from a cultural standpoint to like what betting is and how intrinsically human the activity is.

It's a big change. That's one that's probably about five or six hundred years in the making to be a little little, little little dramatic there. So if we think back, you know, to the dawn and gambling, as we were saying like, yeah, can I throw this, you know, rock farther than you can? I catch this? Sound them before you, you know that sort of thing, like Simon was saying, Yeah, that is personal. Oh my horse is faster than your horse. All right, well I don't know, but my buddy's horse is faster than your buddy's horse. Okay, now we're doing that. You know, my alma mater can be your alma mater in football, okay, you know, my favorite team can be your team. It was very personal.

It's a big change. That's one that's probably about five or six hundred years in the making to be a little little, little little dramatic there. So if we think back, you know, to the dawn and gambling, as we were saying like, yeah, can I throw this, you know, rock farther than you can? I catch this? Sound them before you, you know that sort of thing, like Simon was saying, Yeah, that is personal. Oh my horse is faster than your horse. All right, well I don't know, but my buddy's horse is faster than your buddy's horse. Okay, now we're doing that. You know, my alma mater can be your alma mater in football, okay, you know, my favorite team can be your team. It was very personal.

You have.

You have.

This shift to mercantile gambling and commercial gambling that really happens kind of really gets underway more in the Renaissance, in that period the Reformation, as you have the rise of sort of capitalism and fun things like that, and it intensifies in America with the mention of the spot machine, where like, if you think about what we did in America, we took gambling and we invented a machine that can gamble more efficiently, which is such an American thing. And that's late nineteenth century eighteen ninety nine. This is what they were doing, and this is what Americans are doing, like, oh, railroad, will build build a bigger railroad. Telegraph yeah, all across the country. Gambling, Yeah, here's a machine that'll do that for me. So in every okay, looking at betting. Invention of the telegraph, Hey huh, Now we can find out what's happening at race tracks all around the country. We can bet on them here. And that was really the first remote betting, and I argue that was the first remote remote entertainment where people would actually be hearing them narrate, like what's happening in the race, and they're very excited. And people were freaked out then because they're like, oh my god, why are they jumping and yelling and screaming and stuff and they're not even at the track.

This shift to mercantile gambling and commercial gambling that really happens kind of really gets underway more in the Renaissance, in that period the Reformation, as you have the rise of sort of capitalism and fun things like that, and it intensifies in America with the mention of the spot machine, where like, if you think about what we did in America, we took gambling and we invented a machine that can gamble more efficiently, which is such an American thing. And that's late nineteenth century eighteen ninety nine. This is what they were doing, and this is what Americans are doing, like, oh, railroad, will build build a bigger railroad. Telegraph yeah, all across the country. Gambling, Yeah, here's a machine that'll do that for me. So in every okay, looking at betting. Invention of the telegraph, Hey huh, Now we can find out what's happening at race tracks all around the country. We can bet on them here. And that was really the first remote betting, and I argue that was the first remote remote entertainment where people would actually be hearing them narrate, like what's happening in the race, and they're very excited. And people were freaked out then because they're like, oh my god, why are they jumping and yelling and screaming and stuff and they're not even at the track.

I would say it's probably the intrinsic power of the spoken word chad, Yeah, timeless, timeless and evocative.

I would say it's probably the intrinsic power of the spoken word chad, Yeah, timeless, timeless and evocative.

Yeah, yes, yeah. And they had no concept of remote entertainment like today where we'll watch the game and get all excited even though we're not in the stadium. You know, they had no concept and that was how that was born. So it is really interesting. In every technological devancement, people are betting, you know, telephones, people using telephones to bet, Internet people using the Internet to bet. Mobile people are using mobile now and I don't see a reason why that won't continue.

Yeah, yes, yeah. And they had no concept of remote entertainment like today where we'll watch the game and get all excited even though we're not in the stadium. You know, they had no concept and that was how that was born. So it is really interesting. In every technological devancement, people are betting, you know, telephones, people using telephones to bet, Internet people using the Internet to bet. Mobile people are using mobile now and I don't see a reason why that won't continue.

So which came first? This is a chicken in the egg.

So which came first? This is a chicken in the egg.

Is it.

Is it.

Gambling as a point of pride or gambling for the sake of gambling? And I think there's a nuanced difference there. But before technology, gambling for the sake of pride, because you ed had to be more in person and a little bit more about competition versus gambling that is at scale and is about gambling for gambling sake.

Gambling as a point of pride or gambling for the sake of gambling? And I think there's a nuanced difference there. But before technology, gambling for the sake of pride, because you ed had to be more in person and a little bit more about competition versus gambling that is at scale and is about gambling for gambling sake.

Yeah, I mean, think about the difference between poker and slot machines. You know, poker, and I know everybody gets bad beats and stuff like that, but it comes down to I'm better than you and I'm taking your money because of skill for even though yeah, I mean there are bad beats and stuff like that, and you know, whereas slot machines is just hey, I'm putting my money up and whatever happens happens, it's out of my hands. So it's that's that different. You know, people who just want that rush of gambling versus people who want to gamble to show their skill. You know, that is the difference right there, and they probably always had a little bit of them. Probably the skill dominated more early on, but since we've gone to more totally random games like slots, a little bit more of the pure gambling.

Yeah, I mean, think about the difference between poker and slot machines. You know, poker, and I know everybody gets bad beats and stuff like that, but it comes down to I'm better than you and I'm taking your money because of skill for even though yeah, I mean there are bad beats and stuff like that, and you know, whereas slot machines is just hey, I'm putting my money up and whatever happens happens, it's out of my hands. So it's that's that different. You know, people who just want that rush of gambling versus people who want to gamble to show their skill. You know, that is the difference right there, and they probably always had a little bit of them. Probably the skill dominated more early on, but since we've gone to more totally random games like slots, a little bit more of the pure gambling.

That's why I love gambling though, Like slots now there's an edge. Like I know guys who have quit sports betting on what I do, and they literally live in books or outside sports books by the slot machines, and they just watch people on machines and they know timing wise that this machine's hot, like this is this machine's right in the pop Like they just watch them and play for hours and they'll wait and jump on their machine, which is just to me, it's like crazy how people just find an edge and every little thing like you talked about, and you know, go back ten thousand years of those fake dice pros. Everybody they're always me find an edge. They might call that cheating. To me, that's a professional, that's someone trying to find an edge. So I love the breakdown of all these history right now. It's really interesting.

That's why I love gambling though, Like slots now there's an edge. Like I know guys who have quit sports betting on what I do, and they literally live in books or outside sports books by the slot machines, and they just watch people on machines and they know timing wise that this machine's hot, like this is this machine's right in the pop Like they just watch them and play for hours and they'll wait and jump on their machine, which is just to me, it's like crazy how people just find an edge and every little thing like you talked about, and you know, go back ten thousand years of those fake dice pros. Everybody they're always me find an edge. They might call that cheating. To me, that's a professional, that's someone trying to find an edge. So I love the breakdown of all these history right now. It's really interesting.

You know, Nate Silver not to plug another book, But talking about slots, he wrote a book that came out over the summer called On the Edge, and he had a section in there about people who, to your point, Simon, are looking to find the edges in slot machines. I've probably been to Vegas a thousand times, no exaggeration, in my life, and I think that I've played slots zero times, Simon. Like when you go to the casinos, now, do you have any urge to do anything other than walk to the book, make your bet and get out? Or will you stay and play Parker? I know you love poker, Like will you play poker? Will you play blackjack?

You know, Nate Silver not to plug another book, But talking about slots, he wrote a book that came out over the summer called On the Edge, and he had a section in there about people who, to your point, Simon, are looking to find the edges in slot machines. I've probably been to Vegas a thousand times, no exaggeration, in my life, and I think that I've played slots zero times, Simon. Like when you go to the casinos, now, do you have any urge to do anything other than walk to the book, make your bet and get out? Or will you stay and play Parker? I know you love poker, Like will you play poker? Will you play blackjack?

What is your menu?

What is your menu?

That's the running joke to a lot of professional sports better is it's like basketball players want to be rappers, sports betters want to be poker players, and vice versa poka players.

That's the running joke to a lot of professional sports better is it's like basketball players want to be rappers, sports betters want to be poker players, and vice versa poka players.

I know some really high level poke players.

I know some really high level poke players.

I've seen when many tournaments in Vegas, especially in twenty fourteen, I mean twenty fifteen when I was really in Vegas a lot, and I would see these guys win one hundred K and then just go bet it on like a Lakers first half and lose it. And it's like that's also why these sportsbook exists, right, They're hitting these guys who are great at one thing, but something that great at and they have confidence in when they shouldn't have confidence in. So yeah, for me, slot machines, chat, I'm with you on that. The only time I've ever hit a slot machine is at the airport in Vegas, Like that's the one time they'll get me.

I've seen when many tournaments in Vegas, especially in twenty fourteen, I mean twenty fifteen when I was really in Vegas a lot, and I would see these guys win one hundred K and then just go bet it on like a Lakers first half and lose it. And it's like that's also why these sportsbook exists, right, They're hitting these guys who are great at one thing, but something that great at and they have confidence in when they shouldn't have confidence in. So yeah, for me, slot machines, chat, I'm with you on that. The only time I've ever hit a slot machine is at the airport in Vegas, Like that's the one time they'll get me.

If I got eight hours to kill and I got the itch, I'll hit the slot machines and things like that. But I'm with you. The big thing for me is blackjack.

If I got eight hours to kill and I got the itch, I'll hit the slot machines and things like that. But I'm with you. The big thing for me is blackjack.

I told you, if I'm really nervous about a bet I made, I can't watch the game in the sports book, I can't be around all the people talk and anything like that.

I told you, if I'm really nervous about a bet I made, I can't watch the game in the sports book, I can't be around all the people talk and anything like that.

I'll go right across the blackjack table.

I'll go right across the blackjack table.

You know it.

You know it.

Give me a twenty dollars limit. I don't even care. I'm just there to kill time while watching the game on one of the corner of TVs. So that's definitely my nervous hitter is. I just like to sit there play blackjack for a couple hours while watching games.

Give me a twenty dollars limit. I don't even care. I'm just there to kill time while watching the game on one of the corner of TVs. So that's definitely my nervous hitter is. I just like to sit there play blackjack for a couple hours while watching games.

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Dave. Do you gambed now? Having worked in the casino and having been awake at four thirty in the morning watching people gamble kind of kills all the romance. Yeah, what I'm hearing at four thirty.

Dave. Do you gambed now? Having worked in the casino and having been awake at four thirty in the morning watching people gamble kind of kills all the romance. Yeah, what I'm hearing at four thirty.

Is my business day. One day the volcano is coming for me. So that's yeah, more terms back, you know.

Is my business day. One day the volcano is coming for me. So that's yeah, more terms back, you know.

It's just yeah, you see things doing surveillance, it's like, uh, you know, just like, well, I'm not in part of it. For me, it's like I'm no smarter or luckier than these people. So it's not it's got to be somebody. I don't think it's going to be me.

It's just yeah, you see things doing surveillance, it's like, uh, you know, just like, well, I'm not in part of it. For me, it's like I'm no smarter or luckier than these people. So it's not it's got to be somebody. I don't think it's going to be me.

Our audience will not be surprised that I absolutely adore gambling. I can think of the two casinos where I was made to move because they were shampooing the carpet while I was playing, which, as you know, like they're doing that at like four am, Christmas morning or whatever when they're like no one, no one will be here, which is never going to make anybody move. I proposed at the roulette wheel of the Old Barbary Coast then Bill's Gambling Hall. Yeah no, yeah, they I did not know that she hit her number and they pushed the chips out with the ring on top. I had had to take the ring because I was traveling for business and it was around Thanksgiving from Milwaukee to Denver to my family's Thanksgiving in Baltimore to Las Vegas, so I hit every time zone, which made me want to puke my guts out. Don't travel with a diamond ring, uh And then yeah, I just assumed that the uh Bill's Gammon Hall would be fine with it. They were like, what the fuck are you talking about. I was like, oh right, I forgot to like clue you in on this. I had lost enough money at Bill's historically that the pit boss was like, oh dude, no problem, no problem, and he showed the ring to the camera, placed it on the chips and said, I'll clear this table out and then you have to get you have to fill it. So I got my my family who would come with me, and we sat down and she lost every spinch. She played ten numbers at a time, so you're gonna win about one in every four spins. She lost twelve spins.

Our audience will not be surprised that I absolutely adore gambling. I can think of the two casinos where I was made to move because they were shampooing the carpet while I was playing, which, as you know, like they're doing that at like four am, Christmas morning or whatever when they're like no one, no one will be here, which is never going to make anybody move. I proposed at the roulette wheel of the Old Barbary Coast then Bill's Gambling Hall. Yeah no, yeah, they I did not know that she hit her number and they pushed the chips out with the ring on top. I had had to take the ring because I was traveling for business and it was around Thanksgiving from Milwaukee to Denver to my family's Thanksgiving in Baltimore to Las Vegas, so I hit every time zone, which made me want to puke my guts out. Don't travel with a diamond ring, uh And then yeah, I just assumed that the uh Bill's Gammon Hall would be fine with it. They were like, what the fuck are you talking about. I was like, oh right, I forgot to like clue you in on this. I had lost enough money at Bill's historically that the pit boss was like, oh dude, no problem, no problem, and he showed the ring to the camera, placed it on the chips and said, I'll clear this table out and then you have to get you have to fill it. So I got my my family who would come with me, and we sat down and she lost every spinch. She played ten numbers at a time, so you're gonna win about one in every four spins. She lost twelve spins.

In a row.

In a row.

It was absolutely excruciating, sweating through my clothes. By now, the pit boss has told every other table in the vicinity of what's happening. So every time she lost. There were audible groans coming from the other tables, which she thought she was being mocked. But yeah, it was great, and we're November twenty ten, so still going strong, she said, yes, still going strong. Yeah, it's great, dude, put.

It was absolutely excruciating, sweating through my clothes. By now, the pit boss has told every other table in the vicinity of what's happening. So every time she lost. There were audible groans coming from the other tables, which she thought she was being mocked. But yeah, it was great, and we're November twenty ten, so still going strong, she said, yes, still going strong. Yeah, it's great, dude, put.

Out another edition because that's the best gambling story I've heard.

Out another edition because that's the best gambling story I've heard.

Oh, I remember when I told the Bill sports Book, Because of course, she says, yes, we hug and I'm like, I got to go make some more bets, and I said, hey, I just got engaged, and the guy's like, sounds good. I go, no, I got engaged. Here the reaction of the Bill's Gaming Gold sports Book employees to that I had chosen to get in that casino at that time, I've never seen people ask more clarifying questions. They would have been less incredulous if I told them I arrived there on a dragon, But to their credit, they gave me the whole book of drink tickets. So shout out to the now defunct Bill's Gambling Hall corner of Flamingo in the Strip.