Welcome to The Favorites, the podcast presented by BET three sixty five. We are part of the Volume Podcast Network. I am Chad Melman of the Action Network. I'm live from my Tommy John home studio. I'm joined as always by my co host, my companion, my Campadre might be a FAFT professional better Simon Hunter. Hello, Simon, Chad.

Welcome to The Favorites, the podcast presented by BET three sixty five. We are part of the Volume Podcast Network. I am Chad Melman of the Action Network. I'm live from my Tommy John home studio. I'm joined as always by my co host, my companion, my Campadre might be a FAFT professional better Simon Hunter. Hello, Simon, Chad.

How are we doing? Brother?

How are we doing? Brother?

Listen dude, I'm in the middle of an epic, epic travel streak. I've been gone for three to four days of every week and just about every weekend since the Super Bowl. Got home late last night after visiting Penn State University over the weekend with my son. We're narrowing down the college choices. We're getting down to the end. I am going to ask my guests, because he's intimately familiar with all of the places that my son has left. I'm going to want to get his opinion on it. But the NCAA tournament is underway. You and I have a very special guest. He's honestly, he's an inspiration to a lot of the people on our production staff, some of whom he's actually worked with very closely, including myself. He's always been an incredible producer, one of the legendary ESPN producers. He became a beloved media personality, not television, not audio, all around media personality. Always been a passionate gambler. I've known the guy for fifteen years, going back to my ESPN days. You've seen him on Sports Center with SVP College Game Day. Our OG listeners are going to know him very well from not just the Behind the Bets podcast from my ESPN days, he also co hosted the spinoff podcast with Chris Filica, Behind the Bets the College Years. A gambling content pioneer. It's Stanford, Steve Stanford, Welcome to the show.

Listen dude, I'm in the middle of an epic, epic travel streak. I've been gone for three to four days of every week and just about every weekend since the Super Bowl. Got home late last night after visiting Penn State University over the weekend with my son. We're narrowing down the college choices. We're getting down to the end. I am going to ask my guests, because he's intimately familiar with all of the places that my son has left. I'm going to want to get his opinion on it. But the NCAA tournament is underway. You and I have a very special guest. He's honestly, he's an inspiration to a lot of the people on our production staff, some of whom he's actually worked with very closely, including myself. He's always been an incredible producer, one of the legendary ESPN producers. He became a beloved media personality, not television, not audio, all around media personality. Always been a passionate gambler. I've known the guy for fifteen years, going back to my ESPN days. You've seen him on Sports Center with SVP College Game Day. Our OG listeners are going to know him very well from not just the Behind the Bets podcast from my ESPN days, he also co hosted the spinoff podcast with Chris Filica, Behind the Bets the College Years. A gambling content pioneer. It's Stanford, Steve Stanford, Welcome to the show.

Brother, Hello fellas pleasure, Welcome U. Chad's been too long. I was so pumped to see at the super Bowl.

Brother, Hello fellas pleasure, Welcome U. Chad's been too long. I was so pumped to see at the super Bowl.

Nice.

Nice.

It's it's the best part, you know.

It's it's the best part, you know.

I think everybody that has to deal with the Super Bowl finds their pockets and everybody has gotten to the point where you know you it's like, you know, Kyle Brant did the best thing about seeing people at the super Bowl.

I think everybody that has to deal with the Super Bowl finds their pockets and everybody has gotten to the point where you know you it's like, you know, Kyle Brant did the best thing about seeing people at the super Bowl.

I thought it was tremendous. Just the three questions that are asked.

I thought it was tremendous. Just the three questions that are asked.

But people know what to expect when you've done so many of them, and you know, I'm not the concert going guy. I'm not gonna you know, I just have zero interest. And the best times I've had are you know, a little small private party or just telling guys, hey, I'm at this hotel bar, let's let's meet there. And those are the best times because you go to these shows, you can't hear a word anyone's saying, uh, and you want to talk to people because you haven't seen him in social media is a great connection, but you're not getting what you can get and then you see things on social media that people are posting and you're like, eh, I'd love to ask about that, and that's the time to do it.

But people know what to expect when you've done so many of them, and you know, I'm not the concert going guy. I'm not gonna you know, I just have zero interest. And the best times I've had are you know, a little small private party or just telling guys, hey, I'm at this hotel bar, let's let's meet there. And those are the best times because you go to these shows, you can't hear a word anyone's saying, uh, and you want to talk to people because you haven't seen him in social media is a great connection, but you're not getting what you can get and then you see things on social media that people are posting and you're like, eh, I'd love to ask about that, and that's the time to do it.

So it was great to catch up with you. And it's been too long.

So it was great to catch up with you. And it's been too long.

I you know, people talk about you know, it's it's it's always like, how.

I you know, people talk about you know, it's it's it's always like, how.

Did you go from producer to TV?

Did you go from producer to TV?

And your name is the first one that comes up because you gave you gave the bear and I a little on ramp to the highway that I didn't know what was podcasts and you did and your vision has always been just incredible to me. Uh, going back when you used to come in in studio every week with ESPN, the magazine with Scott and Ryan us developer friendship there and I mean you literally had us on and like yeah, Harry, go go do your own and not knowing what the platform was, and then to hear people react and then Baron and I get to get to interact with the people we did and and and get get people to listen. It was I'll never forget it.

And your name is the first one that comes up because you gave you gave the bear and I a little on ramp to the highway that I didn't know what was podcasts and you did and your vision has always been just incredible to me. Uh, going back when you used to come in in studio every week with ESPN, the magazine with Scott and Ryan us developer friendship there and I mean you literally had us on and like yeah, Harry, go go do your own and not knowing what the platform was, and then to hear people react and then Baron and I get to get to interact with the people we did and and and get get people to listen. It was I'll never forget it.

It was.

It was.

I can't believe it's been fifteen years.

I can't believe it's been fifteen years.

I wasn't even expecting that.

I wasn't even expecting that.

No, man, I try and say out of sight, out of mind, It's not true. People always remember certain things. Maybe certain people remember want to remember certain things. But no, man, I'll never forget the opportunity you gave us, and it's turned into an unbelievable run. This past year at college football was most fun I've ever had, with the playoff and traveling, going to Bloomington for the first time among the top things. So it's a pleasure to meet you guys, appreciate you, what you guys do, what you've built. It's really really in credible in this, you know, podcasting and gambling. It feels like it's ever going to end, and there's got to be a roof at some point. But how early you started at Chad is still something I'm amazed by. And the belief that you had in yourself and establishing a crew is really really cool to see because we've seen plenty go by the wayside.

No, man, I try and say out of sight, out of mind, It's not true. People always remember certain things. Maybe certain people remember want to remember certain things. But no, man, I'll never forget the opportunity you gave us, and it's turned into an unbelievable run. This past year at college football was most fun I've ever had, with the playoff and traveling, going to Bloomington for the first time among the top things. So it's a pleasure to meet you guys, appreciate you, what you guys do, what you've built. It's really really in credible in this, you know, podcasting and gambling. It feels like it's ever going to end, and there's got to be a roof at some point. But how early you started at Chad is still something I'm amazed by. And the belief that you had in yourself and establishing a crew is really really cool to see because we've seen plenty go by the wayside.

And here we are.

And here we are.

Dude. I got a feeling. Matt Mitchell and Gifford, who used to work with you at ESPN, Yeah, they're probably going to cut all that out.

Dude. I got a feeling. Matt Mitchell and Gifford, who used to work with you at ESPN, Yeah, they're probably going to cut all that out.

But had any purposes. I get it.

But had any purposes. I get it.

Listen the behind the bets the college years. That was the most natural evolution, Simon. You would not know this because you did not care about me before you DM me on Twitter. But the podcast that how old is Simon Simon Simon's thirty.

Listen the behind the bets the college years. That was the most natural evolution, Simon. You would not know this because you did not care about me before you DM me on Twitter. But the podcast that how old is Simon Simon Simon's thirty.

Five thirty five? Yeah, Chad, Chad knows the deal.

Five thirty five? Yeah, Chad, Chad knows the deal.

I lived the life there for I was living in Vegas, degener gambler, so Risilla NSVP did make my cut though, So I didn't listen to gambling stuffcause I don't want to my head. Yeah, you know, I'm gonna know it all, asshole, especially back in those days. But yeah, when I was a runner, living in my car, running from across Vegas, long days, lots of SVP and Marcille and they're random gems of Stanford Steve just humble in for one or two seconds.

I lived the life there for I was living in Vegas, degener gambler, so Risilla NSVP did make my cut though, So I didn't listen to gambling stuffcause I don't want to my head. Yeah, you know, I'm gonna know it all, asshole, especially back in those days. But yeah, when I was a runner, living in my car, running from across Vegas, long days, lots of SVP and Marcille and they're random gems of Stanford Steve just humble in for one or two seconds.

You know that is Stanford Steve. I'm sure you've heard this.

You know that is Stanford Steve. I'm sure you've heard this.

Everyone's favorite character on any show is the guy that talks for maybe one or two minutes. Right, So I hit the point of like I liked SVP, I liked Forcillo, but anytime I got to hear at Stanford Steve's story, especially your glory days of college, I'm just like, fuck, this guy is the man. So yeah, obviously seeing what you were started out as where you're at now, man, it's it's pretty epic how you've taken that little niche and made it to a huge, huge career.

Everyone's favorite character on any show is the guy that talks for maybe one or two minutes. Right, So I hit the point of like I liked SVP, I liked Forcillo, but anytime I got to hear at Stanford Steve's story, especially your glory days of college, I'm just like, fuck, this guy is the man. So yeah, obviously seeing what you were started out as where you're at now, man, it's it's pretty epic how you've taken that little niche and made it to a huge, huge career.

Man, you're the man.

Man, you're the man.

Yeah, Chad, Chad created that niche. So again, thank you. I'm serious. I'm telling you because it.

Yeah, Chad, Chad created that niche. So again, thank you. I'm serious. I'm telling you because it.

Was, man, because I mean, I would, I would even I would still get shipped from from Radio PRIs. You're like, what are you doing, Like I'm going to tape of podcast. They're like what, like you're talking, I'm like yeah, and it it it turned into what it did.

Was, man, because I mean, I would, I would even I would still get shipped from from Radio PRIs. You're like, what are you doing, Like I'm going to tape of podcast. They're like what, like you're talking, I'm like yeah, and it it it turned into what it did.

But yeah, behind the bets, man, holy Cayle, that was long.

But yeah, behind the bets, man, holy Cayle, that was long.

We were doing that show from across the studio. With SVP and Rosillo and even Feli could crush that. You used to come on Behind the Bets and we would do an episode a segment on Behind the Bets just about college football, and at some point, like you guys just didn't need me doing it. You could go for so long. It was also just the most classic natural off ramp transition because of Saved by the Bell, the college years for the old heads. Yea, the perfect name. Carry on, gentlemen, and it was fucking great.

We were doing that show from across the studio. With SVP and Rosillo and even Feli could crush that. You used to come on Behind the Bets and we would do an episode a segment on Behind the Bets just about college football, and at some point, like you guys just didn't need me doing it. You could go for so long. It was also just the most classic natural off ramp transition because of Saved by the Bell, the college years for the old heads. Yea, the perfect name. Carry on, gentlemen, and it was fucking great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you're you hated college football and you will just wanted to talk NFL and it couldn't have worked out better because I could care less about the NFL and I love college football.

I mean, you're you hated college football and you will just wanted to talk NFL and it couldn't have worked out better because I could care less about the NFL and I love college football.

So that was that. Would you nail it out of the park.

So that was that. Would you nail it out of the park.

That's called complimentary football, right there, Stanford, That's what that is.

That's called complimentary football, right there, Stanford, That's what that is.

Are we going to talk about or are we going to talk about? Which is? What is the right side at all? Remember those arguments?

Are we going to talk about or are we going to talk about? Which is? What is the right side at all? Remember those arguments?

Well, the right side is the winning side. That's that's the bottom line. Let me do a little business right here. As a reminder, the Favorites podcast is presented by BET three sixty five and it is now live in my home state of Illinois Baby New Bet three six five customers, including those in Illinois, get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets. When you bet five dollars, sign up using promo code Favorites, deposit ten dollars. Place at bet for five dollars, get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets. Those bonus bets can be used on spreads, totals, player props, features, and more. Whatever the moment, It's never ordinary. At Bet three sixty five, especially in Illinois. Must be twenty one or older in present in Arizona, Colorader, Indiana, Iowa, Illinois, Louisiana, North Carolina, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, or eighteen and older in Kentucky. Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or one hundred bets off in Iowa terms. Conditioned restrictions apply. Speaking of Illinois before we dive in. Another reminder officially RASVP for our free Favorites live show in Chicago. This is a big event Elite eight March Madness Games on Saturday, March twenty ninth. That Joe's on Weed, It's on Weed Street, Folks free event, free Ranks Free live show with college basketball betting experts Stucky in three man weave overall Good times. RSVP. To reserve your spot, click the link in this episode's description or just Google Favorites Live event Chicago, be sure to rsv P. All right, Stanford, we know you're a Duke guy, not a Duke grad, but a Duke fan. Like, there's a long list of teams in the past you could see winning the tournament, and right now, like Florida came on strong. Yeah, obviously, Auburn struggled at the end of the season. Duke has basically three guys who will be first round picks. How many teams do you think can realistically win it all? Right now?

Well, the right side is the winning side. That's that's the bottom line. Let me do a little business right here. As a reminder, the Favorites podcast is presented by BET three sixty five and it is now live in my home state of Illinois Baby New Bet three six five customers, including those in Illinois, get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets. When you bet five dollars, sign up using promo code Favorites, deposit ten dollars. Place at bet for five dollars, get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets. Those bonus bets can be used on spreads, totals, player props, features, and more. Whatever the moment, It's never ordinary. At Bet three sixty five, especially in Illinois. Must be twenty one or older in present in Arizona, Colorader, Indiana, Iowa, Illinois, Louisiana, North Carolina, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, or eighteen and older in Kentucky. Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or one hundred bets off in Iowa terms. Conditioned restrictions apply. Speaking of Illinois before we dive in. Another reminder officially RASVP for our free Favorites live show in Chicago. This is a big event Elite eight March Madness Games on Saturday, March twenty ninth. That Joe's on Weed, It's on Weed Street, Folks free event, free Ranks Free live show with college basketball betting experts Stucky in three man weave overall Good times. RSVP. To reserve your spot, click the link in this episode's description or just Google Favorites Live event Chicago, be sure to rsv P. All right, Stanford, we know you're a Duke guy, not a Duke grad, but a Duke fan. Like, there's a long list of teams in the past you could see winning the tournament, and right now, like Florida came on strong. Yeah, obviously, Auburn struggled at the end of the season. Duke has basically three guys who will be first round picks. How many teams do you think can realistically win it all? Right now?

Ooh, glad you asked. I got my list right here. Duke's region, the East, actually has the most. I make a list every Valentine's Day of teams that I can think can win the national title.

Ooh, glad you asked. I got my list right here. Duke's region, the East, actually has the most. I make a list every Valentine's Day of teams that I can think can win the national title.

Then it changes when the.

Then it changes when the.

Bracket comes out because I get it, and you guys know the deal with gambling people, and like all they want is picks.

Bracket comes out because I get it, and you guys know the deal with gambling people, and like all they want is picks.

They want picks, they want picks, and it's.

They want picks, they want picks, and it's.

Really really hard because I still think the bracket dictates how I feel and until I see it and see the matchups and all that, I don't really have a great feel. But that gives you more clarity because you start to see pass.

Really really hard because I still think the bracket dictates how I feel and until I see it and see the matchups and all that, I don't really have a great feel. But that gives you more clarity because you start to see pass.

And things like that.

And things like that.

So I have five teams in Duke's bracket that I believe can win the national title, and one is hanging on by a whisper. But I can't give up on them because again, the hardest thing we do in this world we do. We do things as far as you know, picks and all that is forgetting what a team looked like the last time we saw them, and it's it's the hardest. I think it's the hardest thing with NBA betting when you start getting the series. I think it's the hardest thing with college football after a team plays a big game, say on the road, because if you if you focus in on how bad a team look and they played bad, you're just setting yourself up. And it's it's really hard to do. You gotta you gotta clear the table and assess things and the basis of here and and with the tournament. In that bracket, I have Duke Arizona BYU Wisconsin is the team that's hanging on by a thread in Alabama. Wisconsin was a team I really like getting better all year, and then you go to the Big Ten title game, they play their worst game of the year and lose. And now you look at their draw. Now they got to go to Denver. They played Sunday afternoon. The teams that have played in Big Ten title games don't have a great history.

So I have five teams in Duke's bracket that I believe can win the national title, and one is hanging on by a whisper. But I can't give up on them because again, the hardest thing we do in this world we do. We do things as far as you know, picks and all that is forgetting what a team looked like the last time we saw them, and it's it's the hardest. I think it's the hardest thing with NBA betting when you start getting the series. I think it's the hardest thing with college football after a team plays a big game, say on the road, because if you if you focus in on how bad a team look and they played bad, you're just setting yourself up. And it's it's really hard to do. You gotta you gotta clear the table and assess things and the basis of here and and with the tournament. In that bracket, I have Duke Arizona BYU Wisconsin is the team that's hanging on by a thread in Alabama. Wisconsin was a team I really like getting better all year, and then you go to the Big Ten title game, they play their worst game of the year and lose. And now you look at their draw. Now they got to go to Denver. They played Sunday afternoon. The teams that have played in Big Ten title games don't have a great history.

Uh.

Uh.

And then say a tournament and so you go to Denver. All right, you got to play the Montana team, who's not bad at all. Watch them through the season. I actually think they could do pretty well and cover that number. But Wisconsin's that team. And then BYU and Alabama are the two teams I'm so bummed they're in the same bracket, just like Florida and Saint John's. I'm sure we'll get to But BYU and Alabama were two teams I thought all year they got to get out of the conference and get to tournament play because of what they bring in the table as far as matchups, size, length, style of play, all that. I love what BYU and Alabama bringing the table, and that one was tough. I keep going back and forth of who's going to the final four out of that and I honestly think Arizona beats Duke because when you look at what Arizona brings to the table, they're better and better. They're getting. You know, the acron pick is getting more popular and more popular, but it seems like the line keeps going up, which I don't like at all. I think it's up to thirteen wherever you're getting numbers from. But Arizona played Duke already this year. They lost into usan low scoring game. It was after Duke got beat by Kentucky. I think Duke really really needed it and Tommy Lloyd was still figuring out their lineup. And now you look at what Arizona did in the Big twelve tournament, which is super impressive to me. I love the way their guards play, and you have the ultimate Kale Love factor.

And then say a tournament and so you go to Denver. All right, you got to play the Montana team, who's not bad at all. Watch them through the season. I actually think they could do pretty well and cover that number. But Wisconsin's that team. And then BYU and Alabama are the two teams I'm so bummed they're in the same bracket, just like Florida and Saint John's. I'm sure we'll get to But BYU and Alabama were two teams I thought all year they got to get out of the conference and get to tournament play because of what they bring in the table as far as matchups, size, length, style of play, all that. I love what BYU and Alabama bringing the table, and that one was tough. I keep going back and forth of who's going to the final four out of that and I honestly think Arizona beats Duke because when you look at what Arizona brings to the table, they're better and better. They're getting. You know, the acron pick is getting more popular and more popular, but it seems like the line keeps going up, which I don't like at all. I think it's up to thirteen wherever you're getting numbers from. But Arizona played Duke already this year. They lost into usan low scoring game. It was after Duke got beat by Kentucky. I think Duke really really needed it and Tommy Lloyd was still figuring out their lineup. And now you look at what Arizona did in the Big twelve tournament, which is super impressive to me. I love the way their guards play, and you have the ultimate Kale Love factor.

Yeah, if he's bad, they're not gonna win.

Yeah, if he's bad, they're not gonna win.

But if he's good, kids brought a team in the National Championship three years ago, So I look at Arizona. It's super dangerous in that bracket, being really really tough. Everybody's just saying Duke's got a path because you know, they get Mississippi State and the winner Misssippi State and Baylor. But I think it's more tricky than that. Those teams are gonna be afraid they're gonna get everybody's best shot. You don't know what Cooper is going to look like. And I just I feel like it's a it's a tougher then draw, and then you factor in another thing that I always look at.

But if he's good, kids brought a team in the National Championship three years ago, So I look at Arizona. It's super dangerous in that bracket, being really really tough. Everybody's just saying Duke's got a path because you know, they get Mississippi State and the winner Misssippi State and Baylor. But I think it's more tricky than that. Those teams are gonna be afraid they're gonna get everybody's best shot. You don't know what Cooper is going to look like. And I just I feel like it's a it's a tougher then draw, and then you factor in another thing that I always look at.

And when we.

And when we.

Got off the air last night at two am, nine million and over nine million brackets submitted at ESPN dot com Duke winning that.

Got off the air last night at two am, nine million and over nine million brackets submitted at ESPN dot com Duke winning that.

I want part of that. You got a zero.

I want part of that. You got a zero.

I sometimes I feel Simon, tell me if you feel the same way. I mean that you're a professional better, But obviously college basketball wasn't where you make your money. I've always felt like the BRAC, the people creating the seedings, the selection committee, either they have an ear for what gamblers don't want to see or they are so unself aware they fuck every team that gamblers really want to believe in. And I feel like I saw it all over the brackets this year, even with Auburn, Like Auburn is the number one overall seed, they got to go to Kentucky and then they potentially have to play Louisville, which is essentially a home game in Lexington for Louisville in the second round if Louisville wins its opening round game against Creighton, Like, what the fuck is up with the selection? When you look at this Stanford, do you feel like they have an ear for what gamblers are thinking? Or do you think they're just bad at this?

I sometimes I feel Simon, tell me if you feel the same way. I mean that you're a professional better, But obviously college basketball wasn't where you make your money. I've always felt like the BRAC, the people creating the seedings, the selection committee, either they have an ear for what gamblers don't want to see or they are so unself aware they fuck every team that gamblers really want to believe in. And I feel like I saw it all over the brackets this year, even with Auburn, Like Auburn is the number one overall seed, they got to go to Kentucky and then they potentially have to play Louisville, which is essentially a home game in Lexington for Louisville in the second round if Louisville wins its opening round game against Creighton, Like, what the fuck is up with the selection? When you look at this Stanford, do you feel like they have an ear for what gamblers are thinking? Or do you think they're just bad at this?

I think they're bad, I really do. You look at some of the spreads.

I think they're bad, I really do. You look at some of the spreads.

I mean, like I said, I love BYU and that VCU game is brutal because VC is a great defensive team. Now VC has only played two tournament teams and you know they got to go to Denver, as I pointed out after playing Sunday Afternoon too, which you know likes BYU. But then the lines in the twos, I think, and then you just look at twelve five Colorado State's favored over Michigan, now, like it's brutal the way they do it, And you know, I always held back that it was done the right way, but this year, I just I can't with the North Carolina thing, Like you know, bracket what's the site, bracket matrix, one hundred and eleven brackets all you know, bracketologist computers, the whole thing, one hundred and eleven out of one hundred and eleven had West Virginia and Carolina out, and you know, and then you see the selection show with the vice chair now because Bubbo's lady of Carolina, like Baba.

I mean, like I said, I love BYU and that VCU game is brutal because VC is a great defensive team. Now VC has only played two tournament teams and you know they got to go to Denver, as I pointed out after playing Sunday Afternoon too, which you know likes BYU. But then the lines in the twos, I think, and then you just look at twelve five Colorado State's favored over Michigan, now, like it's brutal the way they do it, And you know, I always held back that it was done the right way, but this year, I just I can't with the North Carolina thing, Like you know, bracket what's the site, bracket matrix, one hundred and eleven brackets all you know, bracketologist computers, the whole thing, one hundred and eleven out of one hundred and eleven had West Virginia and Carolina out, and you know, and then you see the selection show with the vice chair now because Bubbo's lady of Carolina, like Baba.

Who got seventy thousand dollars bonus because Carolina.

Who got seventy thousand dollars bonus because Carolina.

I couldn't.

I couldn't.

I can't get there now. And I think it's a shame because this being the brand. And you know in Indiana factors into it too, because immediately I saw Carolina and I'm like, well, Boise States out uh and they're just gonna go with the names. And then you see Texas and it's like whoa. So it's it's brutal because I always want the little guys to go. And I get the SEC is the best conference ever with fourteen teams, and I watch it as much as anybody, but like you're just you know, I still you know, you look at teams like Drake, if they didn't win their conference tournament, I thought they deserved to me in they're like thirty and four. You know, at some point I want teams that are capable. And it's only gonna get worse. Hurt people talking like the out of conference games that all right, they want to.

I can't get there now. And I think it's a shame because this being the brand. And you know in Indiana factors into it too, because immediately I saw Carolina and I'm like, well, Boise States out uh and they're just gonna go with the names. And then you see Texas and it's like whoa. So it's it's brutal because I always want the little guys to go. And I get the SEC is the best conference ever with fourteen teams, and I watch it as much as anybody, but like you're just you know, I still you know, you look at teams like Drake, if they didn't win their conference tournament, I thought they deserved to me in they're like thirty and four. You know, at some point I want teams that are capable. And it's only gonna get worse. Hurt people talking like the out of conference games that all right, they want to.

Get Quad one wins.

Get Quad one wins.

You know, all the shoe companies do the preseason scheduling, like out of conference preseason, that's all done with shoecomp. MAUI has a Nike school under Armoured. Indeed, it's like they control all that, so the little guys can't even get in on that. And then like I look at everybody's picking high Point right because they're playing Purdue. It's pretty basic why everyone's picking high Point. They see a good record, they see perdue forget that they went to the national title game last year, and just think about year's previous re Painter has failed, who I think is still an excellent coach. High Point hasn't played a Quad one game in two years. How do you equate? How do you equate that? Like it's just you know, going off on a woman. I'm sure they'll win and people will be happy and say I told you so, But I can't. I can't get there doing that when I look at what I watch and you know, I mean it's the ultimate dice dice, ultimate dice roll this tournament, and you know, coaches are judged on what they do in this thing.

You know, all the shoe companies do the preseason scheduling, like out of conference preseason, that's all done with shoecomp. MAUI has a Nike school under Armoured. Indeed, it's like they control all that, so the little guys can't even get in on that. And then like I look at everybody's picking high Point right because they're playing Purdue. It's pretty basic why everyone's picking high Point. They see a good record, they see perdue forget that they went to the national title game last year, and just think about year's previous re Painter has failed, who I think is still an excellent coach. High Point hasn't played a Quad one game in two years. How do you equate? How do you equate that? Like it's just you know, going off on a woman. I'm sure they'll win and people will be happy and say I told you so, But I can't. I can't get there doing that when I look at what I watch and you know, I mean it's the ultimate dice dice, ultimate dice roll this tournament, and you know, coaches are judged on what they do in this thing.

And I think it's tough.

And I think it's tough.

You go to a guy like Rick Barnes, you know, I think the world of them, the way he's recruited, the different schools that he's won at, and he's got one Final Four, But if you look close, there's plenty of Sweet sixteen and Elite eights in there.

You go to a guy like Rick Barnes, you know, I think the world of them, the way he's recruited, the different schools that he's won at, and he's got one Final Four, But if you look close, there's plenty of Sweet sixteen and Elite eights in there.

Like I think the world.

Like I think the world.

I wanted Houston and Tennessee to go to the Final Four, and now they're in the same bracket. So it's always handcuffs when it comes to the committee. But yeah, I think they could be better.

I wanted Houston and Tennessee to go to the Final Four, and now they're in the same bracket. So it's always handcuffs when it comes to the committee. But yeah, I think they could be better.

Simon, you get all this second hand intel from all the people you know that are professional betters, does it ever make you want to go all in on college basketball, like for an extra two months, just extend your season? Do you see opportunities there? We've never actually talked about.

Simon, you get all this second hand intel from all the people you know that are professional betters, does it ever make you want to go all in on college basketball, like for an extra two months, just extend your season? Do you see opportunities there? We've never actually talked about.

This, No, but I guess it's because it doesn't line up well with football, where like, my hardest months really are that December, January, February stretch, and then when I'm done with that, I'm so it's like, fuck, am I really about to learn a thousand college kids' names.

This, No, but I guess it's because it doesn't line up well with football, where like, my hardest months really are that December, January, February stretch, and then when I'm done with that, I'm so it's like, fuck, am I really about to learn a thousand college kids' names.

Are probably all gonna be gone within the next year or two.

Are probably all gonna be gone within the next year or two.

It's just a lot to take on, but college is a thing where you can someone like me that's further away from it.

It's just a lot to take on, but college is a thing where you can someone like me that's further away from it.

I feel like I do make more money than the.

I feel like I do make more money than the.

Guys who are locked in on it, and they are so into it where I can pick their picks and I don't overthink it. Like me and you joked about it last year, we said it Yukon felt like free money, and we bet that heavy and we wrote it all the way to the finals. And sometimes it really is that simple right there, that those unique years of great coaching, great team, great team chemistry, don't overthink it where this year I feel like starver Seve's talking about a little bit where they're it's open. Like every team that is the best, there's a weakness to it. There is a reason you can talk yourself into them failing. So these are my favorite type years were last year, me and you had fun because we made a ton of money bet in Yukon. I want the madness, like that's what we're here for. We're here for the madness. And last year, not that it wasn't a great tournament, we just didn't have the madness like we wanted. So this year I'm I'm really looking forward to it. I feel like we're gonna have a really crazy open field. I don't know if Stanford Steve has the same view totally.

Guys who are locked in on it, and they are so into it where I can pick their picks and I don't overthink it. Like me and you joked about it last year, we said it Yukon felt like free money, and we bet that heavy and we wrote it all the way to the finals. And sometimes it really is that simple right there, that those unique years of great coaching, great team, great team chemistry, don't overthink it where this year I feel like starver Seve's talking about a little bit where they're it's open. Like every team that is the best, there's a weakness to it. There is a reason you can talk yourself into them failing. So these are my favorite type years were last year, me and you had fun because we made a ton of money bet in Yukon. I want the madness, like that's what we're here for. We're here for the madness. And last year, not that it wasn't a great tournament, we just didn't have the madness like we wanted. So this year I'm I'm really looking forward to it. I feel like we're gonna have a really crazy open field. I don't know if Stanford Steve has the same view totally.

Like I said, I have plenty of teams that I mean, each region has at least three teams I believe that can win a national title. Now I'm more optimistic for certain teams and don't look at the path, but I just think about what I watch when I see that team. You know, everyone talks about, you know, the Saint John's Florida bracket, right, I mean, Florida could not be more impressive and how good the SEC was. They won every game in the tournament by double digit points. And they played let's see, I'm trying to think of it. They played a ten seed in Arkansas or no, that was Auburn. I forgot who they played. Oh, they beat Missouri, they're a six seed. Then they beat Alabama's a two seed, and they beat Tennessee, who's a two seed, all by double digits.

Like I said, I have plenty of teams that I mean, each region has at least three teams I believe that can win a national title. Now I'm more optimistic for certain teams and don't look at the path, but I just think about what I watch when I see that team. You know, everyone talks about, you know, the Saint John's Florida bracket, right, I mean, Florida could not be more impressive and how good the SEC was. They won every game in the tournament by double digit points. And they played let's see, I'm trying to think of it. They played a ten seed in Arkansas or no, that was Auburn. I forgot who they played. Oh, they beat Missouri, they're a six seed. Then they beat Alabama's a two seed, and they beat Tennessee, who's a two seed, all by double digits.

Like I get it.

Like I get it.

I kind of want them to lose, so the odds would the odds would help, but you that's what you get here.

I kind of want them to lose, so the odds would the odds would help, but you that's what you get here.

And are you guys.

And are you guys.

Familiar with the with the Calcuttas and all that what are the auction for the team?

Familiar with the with the Calcuttas and all that what are the auction for the team?

I can't wait.

I can't wait.

I think Yukon went for close to forty K and ours last year and it was warranted, like we were in on for a while and I'm just like, man, this is because you have to win the tournament. There Where I like this year more where I could pick some teams off at a cheaper price. That can Hey, all I need is them to get to sweet sixteen. And we made money on this team. So that's why we have ours in a couple of days. I can't wait. But it's more open, there's more options, and we've done an unbelievable job of avoiding the monster upsets. A couple of years ago, Illinois was the most expensive team. They lost in the second round of Loyola like that that hurts man. Auburn was red hot, won the SEC Tournament last year, big highest priced four seed by far Lucia on the first round.

I think Yukon went for close to forty K and ours last year and it was warranted, like we were in on for a while and I'm just like, man, this is because you have to win the tournament. There Where I like this year more where I could pick some teams off at a cheaper price. That can Hey, all I need is them to get to sweet sixteen. And we made money on this team. So that's why we have ours in a couple of days. I can't wait. But it's more open, there's more options, and we've done an unbelievable job of avoiding the monster upsets. A couple of years ago, Illinois was the most expensive team. They lost in the second round of Loyola like that that hurts man. Auburn was red hot, won the SEC Tournament last year, big highest priced four seed by far Lucia on the first round.

We've done a good job of that avoiding that.

We've done a good job of that avoiding that.

So that's another factor in the whole gambling thing that if you know you know it, you're fascinated by it. It's super fun when it goes well. But uh yeah, we've done a good job of avoiding the catastrophe.

So that's another factor in the whole gambling thing that if you know you know it, you're fascinated by it. It's super fun when it goes well. But uh yeah, we've done a good job of avoiding the catastrophe.

You when you do your Calcuttas. And I'll explain it sort of as generally as I can so people understand. It's basically your buying teams that you think are going to win the entire tournament, and you're basically going all in on those teams. But you can invest in sort of three four different teams depending on the number of people in the Calcutta and the size of the pool that you want it to be, et cetera, et cetera. When you are playing in a Calcutta, do you go in with a couple of people that you're pooling your money?

You when you do your Calcuttas. And I'll explain it sort of as generally as I can so people understand. It's basically your buying teams that you think are going to win the entire tournament, and you're basically going all in on those teams. But you can invest in sort of three four different teams depending on the number of people in the Calcutta and the size of the pool that you want it to be, et cetera, et cetera. When you are playing in a Calcutta, do you go in with a couple of people that you're pooling your money?

Oh?

Oh?

Yeah, okay, yeah O.

Yeah, okay, yeah O.

Our biggest thing is we basically have the percentages, but we don't know the big We don't know the total number yet because you don't know what you spend until you know. So it's you know, that year with Illinois, we got out on Illinois. They were and they ended up going for high twenties, I would say, and I think we got I think we were in at like nineteen and they were like the first one seat because you do it backwards, like you get the eleven and fourteen seed in a region. I think you get twelve and fifteen how we do it? But then once you get to you know, the top four seeds, it's every team's its own. So you know, a couple of years ago, who do we have Oral Roberts when they made the run like we I think we spend twenty five hundred and they got to the Elite eight like we were. In the way they do it is you don't know the payouts for each round because you don't know how much money is in the pop. But once you know that, you know a first round win and second round win are are one percent of the pot, and then it doubles and it keeps doubling, and it's you know, you you those sweets. To get to the sweet sixteen is enormous. To get to the Laite A is even bigger, and obviously the final four and title gamer are monstrous. But it's it's a super super fun and we got you know, we've been together five years I think now since I moved here, So it's super super fun. If you if you get a chance and and and you want to take a different way of looking at the tournament, it's totally different because it also gives you betting chances, you know, if if you you know, it's sort of a you know the opposite of a happiness hedge, where you know you could do that. So and then if you don't get the team that you really wanted, uh, you can go bet them, you know, if you want it. Uh, if you if you're really that confident and there's discrepancies on your team or something like that. So it it creates a whole nother viewpoint of the tournament, which I find super super cool.

Our biggest thing is we basically have the percentages, but we don't know the big We don't know the total number yet because you don't know what you spend until you know. So it's you know, that year with Illinois, we got out on Illinois. They were and they ended up going for high twenties, I would say, and I think we got I think we were in at like nineteen and they were like the first one seat because you do it backwards, like you get the eleven and fourteen seed in a region. I think you get twelve and fifteen how we do it? But then once you get to you know, the top four seeds, it's every team's its own. So you know, a couple of years ago, who do we have Oral Roberts when they made the run like we I think we spend twenty five hundred and they got to the Elite eight like we were. In the way they do it is you don't know the payouts for each round because you don't know how much money is in the pop. But once you know that, you know a first round win and second round win are are one percent of the pot, and then it doubles and it keeps doubling, and it's you know, you you those sweets. To get to the sweet sixteen is enormous. To get to the Laite A is even bigger, and obviously the final four and title gamer are monstrous. But it's it's a super super fun and we got you know, we've been together five years I think now since I moved here, So it's super super fun. If you if you get a chance and and and you want to take a different way of looking at the tournament, it's totally different because it also gives you betting chances, you know, if if you you know, it's sort of a you know the opposite of a happiness hedge, where you know you could do that. So and then if you don't get the team that you really wanted, uh, you can go bet them, you know, if you want it. Uh, if you if you're really that confident and there's discrepancies on your team or something like that. So it it creates a whole nother viewpoint of the tournament, which I find super super cool.

You know what, I don't know that I've ever asked you this, or if I did, I can't remember the answer. You're from Connecticut, Like, how did you get into betting?

You know what, I don't know that I've ever asked you this, or if I did, I can't remember the answer. You're from Connecticut, Like, how did you get into betting?

Uh?

Uh?

Being around people that we're doing it and weren't supposed to, Uh, you know a lot of relatives and Chad. It's funny I get asked. You know, you guys get all questions, all that you always betting, every gonna stop the advertising, the whole thing. I just think people are so much more better off now because you know, I seen and heard horror stories of you know, local bookies, right, and you see these people and they're just betting on credit. So yeah, they're gonna run if they're not. You know, the rule number one is you can't bet money you don't have. That's that, that's rule number one in gaming. You you're only asking for trouble if you do that. And with the apps, now your money's are like it's already there, you know, Yeah, I want you want a hundred bucks on a game, they're taking it right then, and then you get it.

Being around people that we're doing it and weren't supposed to, Uh, you know a lot of relatives and Chad. It's funny I get asked. You know, you guys get all questions, all that you always betting, every gonna stop the advertising, the whole thing. I just think people are so much more better off now because you know, I seen and heard horror stories of you know, local bookies, right, and you see these people and they're just betting on credit. So yeah, they're gonna run if they're not. You know, the rule number one is you can't bet money you don't have. That's that, that's rule number one in gaming. You you're only asking for trouble if you do that. And with the apps, now your money's are like it's already there, you know, Yeah, I want you want a hundred bucks on a game, they're taking it right then, and then you get it.

You get it.

You get it.

On the other end, it's just like going to a book in a sports book at any of the places, and there's no more betting with credit. So I think the way yeah, if you if you have direct access to the account where that app is set up, you could run into some issues, but it's fun. Is just just wheeling and trying to play catch up. It's kind of it's kind of not you're not able to do it on these apps because the money's up front. So seeing that and and everybody be infatuated with the parlays, now I get it. It's way healthier than the stuff that I grew up around, where it was going against rule number one, and it was people betting money that they didn't have and being allowed to because they were betting on credit with the guy.

On the other end, it's just like going to a book in a sports book at any of the places, and there's no more betting with credit. So I think the way yeah, if you if you have direct access to the account where that app is set up, you could run into some issues, but it's fun. Is just just wheeling and trying to play catch up. It's kind of it's kind of not you're not able to do it on these apps because the money's up front. So seeing that and and everybody be infatuated with the parlays, now I get it. It's way healthier than the stuff that I grew up around, where it was going against rule number one, and it was people betting money that they didn't have and being allowed to because they were betting on credit with the guy.

Was that just like family friends, family buddies in the neighborhood.

Was that just like family friends, family buddies in the neighborhood.

Yeah, yeah, the old slips.

Yeah, yeah, the old slips.

Back in the day, you remember the slips, Yeah for sure. You know, those slips were going around high school like hotcakes. Man, you get your hand on a slip and somebody's booking it and then somebody hits one and they don't have them. Like it's it all started then, Man.

Back in the day, you remember the slips, Yeah for sure. You know, those slips were going around high school like hotcakes. Man, you get your hand on a slip and somebody's booking it and then somebody hits one and they don't have them. Like it's it all started then, Man.

Who listen back in the day, this is semi before Simon's time, maybe not, but parlay cards were the big thing, and parlay cards would just fly through the high schools, yep. And that's how it got a lot of people into bedding. Like Simon, you live sort of on the cusp of all this because you know, Stanford and I are a little bit older than you.

Who listen back in the day, this is semi before Simon's time, maybe not, but parlay cards were the big thing, and parlay cards would just fly through the high schools, yep. And that's how it got a lot of people into bedding. Like Simon, you live sort of on the cusp of all this because you know, Stanford and I are a little bit older than you.

A little bit.

A little bit.

But like Delaware, my old my memories of Delaware is going to a pizzeria and filling out a parlay card at the pizzeria while waiting to get my slice. And it's like, you know that was at seventeen eighteen, Like we drive down from Jersey to Delaware, they'll get a slice and make a bet.

But like Delaware, my old my memories of Delaware is going to a pizzeria and filling out a parlay card at the pizzeria while waiting to get my slice. And it's like, you know that was at seventeen eighteen, Like we drive down from Jersey to Delaware, they'll get a slice and make a bet.

And yeah, the thing Steve's talking about like cracks him up.

And yeah, the thing Steve's talking about like cracks him up.

I'll think about like my bookie, especially when I was young, is not only the credit thing, but like having to meet up with that bookie to give cash too and having that conversation and being like I'm one hundred short and give me that look of like it's no problem, like he knows he's got you down the road anyway.

I'll think about like my bookie, especially when I was young, is not only the credit thing, but like having to meet up with that bookie to give cash too and having that conversation and being like I'm one hundred short and give me that look of like it's no problem, like he knows he's got you down the road anyway.

You got my number exactly.

You got my number exactly.

And the other thing too, Chad, is people don't get like like from twelve to one on an NFL Sunday, like everybody knew where the guy was and you had to call and that's when like, you know, there they didn't usually have what do we call it total phone where you could you know, call waiting. It was just like I'm trying to call it. It's busy, it's busy. It's busy.

And the other thing too, Chad, is people don't get like like from twelve to one on an NFL Sunday, like everybody knew where the guy was and you had to call and that's when like, you know, there they didn't usually have what do we call it total phone where you could you know, call waiting. It was just like I'm trying to call it. It's busy, it's busy. It's busy.

He's got the phone off the hook.

He's got the phone off the hook.

And so like you had to make the call and and and to your points, like you had to go meet up and like was there going to be a conversation or you know, like it's just and you know, everybody had their weeks, right all right, we close. You know, the NFL was always do you give Monday night as the as the end of the week, and and you know, Uncle's another words. I live by Monday night football. If this game was at Sunday at one o'clock, would you be betting? And it's like probably not because but everybody's down and they're trying to chase let's throw it down and lose it.

And so like you had to make the call and and and to your points, like you had to go meet up and like was there going to be a conversation or you know, like it's just and you know, everybody had their weeks, right all right, we close. You know, the NFL was always do you give Monday night as the as the end of the week, and and you know, Uncle's another words. I live by Monday night football. If this game was at Sunday at one o'clock, would you be betting? And it's like probably not because but everybody's down and they're trying to chase let's throw it down and lose it.

Is it's not on Sunday at one o'clock. It's on Monday. Yeah, I think I might.

Is it's not on Sunday at one o'clock. It's on Monday. Yeah, I think I might.

Yep exactly, So oh god.

Yep exactly, So oh god.

Yeah, well you mine. A buddy of mine just wrote. His name is Alan Lobe and he has been on the show before. He's a very successful screenwriter. He wrote the movie twenty one, he wrote the movie Wall Street two. He's written ten twelve movies that a lot of folks have seen. Has continued to produce a lot. He just wrote a story about his gambling addictions and actually was really thoughtful about why he believes legalized sports betting is better even though there are constant commercials now and this has been a crazy week about sweep steak. So what about the Commodities and Futures Trading Commission and whether or not they're going to continue to allow the prediction markets like robin Hood and Kelshi to allow full basically buying and selling of teams in March madness that it's still better because of what you just pointed out Stanford, which is you're not betting on credit, right, you're not. If you're digging yourself into a whole, it's a different conversation than when you're digging yourself into a whole.

Yeah, well you mine. A buddy of mine just wrote. His name is Alan Lobe and he has been on the show before. He's a very successful screenwriter. He wrote the movie twenty one, he wrote the movie Wall Street two. He's written ten twelve movies that a lot of folks have seen. Has continued to produce a lot. He just wrote a story about his gambling addictions and actually was really thoughtful about why he believes legalized sports betting is better even though there are constant commercials now and this has been a crazy week about sweep steak. So what about the Commodities and Futures Trading Commission and whether or not they're going to continue to allow the prediction markets like robin Hood and Kelshi to allow full basically buying and selling of teams in March madness that it's still better because of what you just pointed out Stanford, which is you're not betting on credit, right, you're not. If you're digging yourself into a whole, it's a different conversation than when you're digging yourself into a whole.

Long Now, young kids don't know I know guys who, especially my Runner days, Chad, Like between twenty ten and twenty twelve, I can tell you a handful of guys that owed money, they became priest, or joined the military, or just you know, completely disappear and move to Argentina.

Long Now, young kids don't know I know guys who, especially my Runner days, Chad, Like between twenty ten and twenty twelve, I can tell you a handful of guys that owed money, they became priest, or joined the military, or just you know, completely disappear and move to Argentina.

You don't hear those stories as much as you did.

You don't hear those stories as much as you did.

Back then because guys would get up to twenty k thirty k debt and they don't have a dollar to their name. So, like Steve's talking about, I'm getting all these funny memories thinking back to these crazy characters I knew. It's like, yeah, I haven't seen Jimmy in a couple of weeks. Oh that dude's a fucking priest.

Back then because guys would get up to twenty k thirty k debt and they don't have a dollar to their name. So, like Steve's talking about, I'm getting all these funny memories thinking back to these crazy characters I knew. It's like, yeah, I haven't seen Jimmy in a couple of weeks. Oh that dude's a fucking priest.

Now, dude, he's gone. It's like, what, Yeah, he's a priest now.

Now, dude, he's gone. It's like, what, Yeah, he's a priest now.

It's like, those are the things I think back to of those days of credit man, guys were just on the run.

It's like, those are the things I think back to of those days of credit man, guys were just on the run.

Oh fellas, before we witness any legendary buzzer beaters, Cinderella stories or diaper dandy. Is this NCAA tournament at all starts with all of us staying cool, calm and collected this march, And the best way to do that staying truly comfortable, the kind of flexible, breathable comfort only possible through our sponsor, Tommy John. Before the confetti of a better life can fall, before the first chords of a one shining moment montage can play, we must strive for best in class underwear and the best casual essentials money can buy. So box out underperforming undergarments and crash the boards of comfort with Tommy John Simon. Why will you be wearing Tommy John in twenty twenty five?

Oh fellas, before we witness any legendary buzzer beaters, Cinderella stories or diaper dandy. Is this NCAA tournament at all starts with all of us staying cool, calm and collected this march, And the best way to do that staying truly comfortable, the kind of flexible, breathable comfort only possible through our sponsor, Tommy John. Before the confetti of a better life can fall, before the first chords of a one shining moment montage can play, we must strive for best in class underwear and the best casual essentials money can buy. So box out underperforming undergarments and crash the boards of comfort with Tommy John Simon. Why will you be wearing Tommy John in twenty twenty five?

Because comfort is King Chad.

Because comfort is King Chad.

Right now, you can shop Tommy John dot com slash favorites and get twenty five percent off your first order. Save twenty five percent at Tommy John dot com slash favorites. That's Tommy John dot com slash favorites. Stanford. For those who might not know your full backstory, your nickname is Stanford because you played football at Stanford. I don't think people realize how big of a recruit you were. Remind me, like, where were you ranked when you were coming out of high school? Because I also believe you had an offer to Notre Dame. I think you and I talked about this once. But give me sort of the context for your football all star hood and where else you could have gone.

Right now, you can shop Tommy John dot com slash favorites and get twenty five percent off your first order. Save twenty five percent at Tommy John dot com slash favorites. That's Tommy John dot com slash favorites. Stanford. For those who might not know your full backstory, your nickname is Stanford because you played football at Stanford. I don't think people realize how big of a recruit you were. Remind me, like, where were you ranked when you were coming out of high school? Because I also believe you had an offer to Notre Dame. I think you and I talked about this once. But give me sort of the context for your football all star hood and where else you could have gone.

Uh. I'm trying to remember the name of the magazine, but this was pre internet nine athlon.

Uh. I'm trying to remember the name of the magazine, but this was pre internet nine athlon.

Was it athlon? No?

Was it athlon? No?

It wasn't athlon. It was like a blue chip illustrator or one of.

It wasn't athlon. It was like a blue chip illustrator or one of.

The parade No.

The parade No.

I didn't make the parade team though, Oh gosh, what was the name of it. Anyway, I'm on my visit to Stanford and uh, Mosorysen was the guy who recruited me and comes running out of his office like he knew that I was there. I was there with my brother on my visit and he's like, look, look, look, look, and I'm like what He's like, they ranked you number one. I'm like what And it was like number one player in the country. I'm like, what the hell is this. I'm like, okay, so I to make it quick, like I could have went anywhere, you know, whatever people throw around, five star. The whole thing like went on these visits, went to camp at Notre Dame. Holtz was still there, but that staff was in flux, a lot of miscommunication. Mac Brown's at North Carolina. You know, Nebraska was really good. Tom Osborne was there. Best guy in our league the year before went to Nebraska, Tony Ortiz So there was that connection. Spurrier came to the high school Heisman thing, which was a Tristate area team that I made through MSG. That was something I'll never forget. Eddie George won it that year and then they selected fifteen guys in the area and Spurrier saw my highlight film was like hey, He's like, you want to We're playing national championship, you want to come. I'm like, what, like literally the Monday morning after my visit to Stanford and I'm like I'm like driving home and I'm like looking at flights to Arizona and like just had lunch with Tiger Woods at Stanford. Like it was a complete, complete shit show. And to be seventeen years old in that time, you know, you start, you know, coaches could call once a week and you're talking to all these coaches and you're building relationships, Hey, how are you?

I didn't make the parade team though, Oh gosh, what was the name of it. Anyway, I'm on my visit to Stanford and uh, Mosorysen was the guy who recruited me and comes running out of his office like he knew that I was there. I was there with my brother on my visit and he's like, look, look, look, look, and I'm like what He's like, they ranked you number one. I'm like what And it was like number one player in the country. I'm like, what the hell is this. I'm like, okay, so I to make it quick, like I could have went anywhere, you know, whatever people throw around, five star. The whole thing like went on these visits, went to camp at Notre Dame. Holtz was still there, but that staff was in flux, a lot of miscommunication. Mac Brown's at North Carolina. You know, Nebraska was really good. Tom Osborne was there. Best guy in our league the year before went to Nebraska, Tony Ortiz So there was that connection. Spurrier came to the high school Heisman thing, which was a Tristate area team that I made through MSG. That was something I'll never forget. Eddie George won it that year and then they selected fifteen guys in the area and Spurrier saw my highlight film was like hey, He's like, you want to We're playing national championship, you want to come. I'm like, what, like literally the Monday morning after my visit to Stanford and I'm like I'm like driving home and I'm like looking at flights to Arizona and like just had lunch with Tiger Woods at Stanford. Like it was a complete, complete shit show. And to be seventeen years old in that time, you know, you start, you know, coaches could call once a week and you're talking to all these coaches and you're building relationships, Hey, how are you?

You know, how'd you play last week? How school going like?

You know, how'd you play last week? How school going like?

And you start building relationships and then you got to tell these guys no, And as a seventeen year old kid, like, it was super super scary, and I remember just wanting to get the list down because I wanted to be done and decided before Christmas. And it was super frantic scary and you know, not knowing like you know, we see kids getting nil deals now and I just think about like nil. I couldn't handle that, Like I couldn't even figure out where I wanted to.

And you start building relationships and then you got to tell these guys no, And as a seventeen year old kid, like, it was super super scary, and I remember just wanting to get the list down because I wanted to be done and decided before Christmas. And it was super frantic scary and you know, not knowing like you know, we see kids getting nil deals now and I just think about like nil. I couldn't handle that, Like I couldn't even figure out where I wanted to.

Go to school.

Go to school.

So yeah, it was best of the best treatre royalties on visits and ultimately decided to go to Stanford because my birthday is January first. Grew up watching the Rose Ball on my birthday my whole life, and there was always a dream to play on my birthday and to go to a school like CEE Stanford, like I still put it up against any campus in the world and to be able to get that education because I really, you know, my dad passed.

So yeah, it was best of the best treatre royalties on visits and ultimately decided to go to Stanford because my birthday is January first. Grew up watching the Rose Ball on my birthday my whole life, and there was always a dream to play on my birthday and to go to a school like CEE Stanford, like I still put it up against any campus in the world and to be able to get that education because I really, you know, my dad passed.

Away when I was going to my junior year of high school.

Away when I was going to my junior year of high school.

Wanted to go out and prove myself, like I got some growing up to do hair and was able to do that and ended up playing in the Rose Bawl against Ron Day in Wisconsin on my twenty third birthday, which was my final game, and then took an Interjet internet startup job that summer in August and was broken out of a job by Thanksgiving. So that was that was a that was a treat and a lesson to learn really quickly. And I mean I I all the time now with kids in college, Like you got to have a plan.

Wanted to go out and prove myself, like I got some growing up to do hair and was able to do that and ended up playing in the Rose Bawl against Ron Day in Wisconsin on my twenty third birthday, which was my final game, and then took an Interjet internet startup job that summer in August and was broken out of a job by Thanksgiving. So that was that was a that was a treat and a lesson to learn really quickly. And I mean I I all the time now with kids in college, Like you got to have a plan.

Man.

Man.

It's not the cool thing to do when you're in college, but shit, like when people are are done helping you pick classes and all that, like it's just you and your whatever support system you got, and if you don't have it or have a plan, that's the roughest transition I think in a lifetime, because you're getting handed things. I mean, as a as a scholarship football player, you're getting handed things that you're so taken for granted and then to be punched in the face.

It's not the cool thing to do when you're in college, but shit, like when people are are done helping you pick classes and all that, like it's just you and your whatever support system you got, and if you don't have it or have a plan, that's the roughest transition I think in a lifetime, because you're getting handed things. I mean, as a as a scholarship football player, you're getting handed things that you're so taken for granted and then to be punched in the face.

You know. Living in Powell Out, we're a Menlo Park, no check.

You know. Living in Powell Out, we're a Menlo Park, no check.

And I was never a guy that was like, yeah, you know, speaking of betting with credit, Yeah, I got, I got month, I got rent next month like I got. I was like, I'll never forget, like Monday took the job in like labor day August twenty twenty. No, I mean August two thousand and Monday before Thanksgiving, like call my mom and like I'm out of a joht, Like we got bought out and like it was done. Like you never heard those stories of the internet. So like I had guys that got in like late nineties, got in with Google.

And I was never a guy that was like, yeah, you know, speaking of betting with credit, Yeah, I got, I got month, I got rent next month like I got. I was like, I'll never forget, like Monday took the job in like labor day August twenty twenty. No, I mean August two thousand and Monday before Thanksgiving, like call my mom and like I'm out of a joht, Like we got bought out and like it was done. Like you never heard those stories of the internet. So like I had guys that got in like late nineties, got in with Google.

Uh who Yahoo? Like whoever?

Uh who Yahoo? Like whoever?

Like off and running like set in five years after being graduated, and I'm broke without a job. Uh, not even four months out of college. So uh it was pretty eye opening. But I wouldn't trade it in.

Like off and running like set in five years after being graduated, and I'm broke without a job. Uh, not even four months out of college. So uh it was pretty eye opening. But I wouldn't trade it in.

Uh.

Uh.

People ask me all the time, would you rather gone? I could have went to any SEC school. Uh, but the friends and things I was able to do at Stafford, I'll never trade in for anything.

People ask me all the time, would you rather gone? I could have went to any SEC school. Uh, but the friends and things I was able to do at Stafford, I'll never trade in for anything.

Do you remember the name of the company?

Do you remember the name of the company?

I don't.

I don't.

What were you? What were you doing?

What were you? What were you doing?

Uh? It was some like internet sale.

Uh? It was some like internet sale.

I have no idea, just I didn't even know what I was doing. It was just you know, a couple of guys and who were like, hey, let's do this.

I have no idea, just I didn't even know what I was doing. It was just you know, a couple of guys and who were like, hey, let's do this.

So yeah, I know that era. It's interesting you say that. You know, we were talking before I came on about colleges and like, I'm just going through this whole process with my kid right now. Who's narrowing it down? It's coming down to Maryland, Penn State, and Indiana was sort of the third tier. And wherever we've gone, he's met with the people who run the programs that he's interested in, and every time we're done, he's like, he loves the school he just met with. Yeah, just at Penn State. But I think part of it is he feels badly saying no to people who have been so nice to him, about saying, hey, come here and this is what we can do, and not like he's being recruited like an athlete. It's a completely different thing. But when you're seventeen years old, I can see it. I can see how hard it is if someone is being kind to you to say no to them. It's brutal.