Hello, and welcome to the Conversation with Me Amanda Decademy. This series of The Conversation is brought to you by VS Voices, another fantastic podcast I host, which highlights trailblazing women from around the world to celebrate the multifaceted nature of the female experience. You can listen to Voices on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. On this week's episode of the Conversation, I'm speaking to author and filmmaker Tiffany Schalaine about the relationship between humans and technology and some solutions to navigate screen time. I'm so pleased to be talking to you now. I mean, I'm happy to talk to you at any point, but to have an excuse to talk to you, because I, like so many homes around the world, have been struggling with how much time I'm spending online, my kids are spending online, and what that is doing to us individually and as a community. The fact that pretty much everything we do, whether we're exercising, there's an app, we're reading the news, there's an app. You're eating your food, there's an app to like, photograph and document and measure and wag and share, and anything new that comes out in the world now that doesn't have a digital component basically is not going to succeed as a business. So every single thing that comes out in the world has a digital component. The digital life before the pandemic was getting to the point where I was feeling like, Wow, we're losing connection with ourselves, with our environment, with our communities. And then the pandemic hit and there was absolutely no way that I could get anyone in my home to do so many of the things that I could get them to do before, because they'd say, we can't see our friends, we can't do anything, we can't go anywhere. What are we supposed to do? You can only get them to walk the dog, you know, once a day, you know what I mean? Like, there's so many great ideas of things that I would love to do, that I want to do, and that my husband and I have actually made sure that we unplug and we spend time together every weekend without the phones. And so I was so excited to talk to you because I know you have been talking about the relationship between human beings and technology for so many years, well before anyone else was talking about this. You founded the Webby Awards. You made Connected, your film in twenty twelve.

Hello, and welcome to the Conversation with Me Amanda Decademy. This series of The Conversation is brought to you by VS Voices, another fantastic podcast I host, which highlights trailblazing women from around the world to celebrate the multifaceted nature of the female experience. You can listen to Voices on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. On this week's episode of the Conversation, I'm speaking to author and filmmaker Tiffany Schalaine about the relationship between humans and technology and some solutions to navigate screen time. I'm so pleased to be talking to you now. I mean, I'm happy to talk to you at any point, but to have an excuse to talk to you, because I, like so many homes around the world, have been struggling with how much time I'm spending online, my kids are spending online, and what that is doing to us individually and as a community. The fact that pretty much everything we do, whether we're exercising, there's an app, we're reading the news, there's an app. You're eating your food, there's an app to like, photograph and document and measure and wag and share, and anything new that comes out in the world now that doesn't have a digital component basically is not going to succeed as a business. So every single thing that comes out in the world has a digital component. The digital life before the pandemic was getting to the point where I was feeling like, Wow, we're losing connection with ourselves, with our environment, with our communities. And then the pandemic hit and there was absolutely no way that I could get anyone in my home to do so many of the things that I could get them to do before, because they'd say, we can't see our friends, we can't do anything, we can't go anywhere. What are we supposed to do? You can only get them to walk the dog, you know, once a day, you know what I mean? Like, there's so many great ideas of things that I would love to do, that I want to do, and that my husband and I have actually made sure that we unplug and we spend time together every weekend without the phones. And so I was so excited to talk to you because I know you have been talking about the relationship between human beings and technology for so many years, well before anyone else was talking about this. You founded the Webby Awards. You made Connected, your film in twenty twelve.

We Yes, I was thinking about that. We there was like a screaming in La and we've met for my film Connected.

We Yes, I was thinking about that. We there was like a screaming in La and we've met for my film Connected.

Yes, and you this has been the subject matter that you have been well ahead of the world and talking about, and so I just was like, Okay, I'm struggling with this so much. So many other people are so many parents that I know are reaching out to me like what are you doing about your kids and screen time and your whole family? And everyone is feeling disconnected. And so I was like, I have to talk to Tiffany, because I know that you are so knowledgeable and so passionate about this subject matter and your book twenty four to six, which is a genius title. I would expect nothing less from you. It's brilliant, and I wanted just to talk to you to see what your experience has been personally, and also eventually at some point in this conversation for recommendations for people, because there's a lot of great ideas, but how do you do stuff in practical terms?

Yes, and you this has been the subject matter that you have been well ahead of the world and talking about, and so I just was like, Okay, I'm struggling with this so much. So many other people are so many parents that I know are reaching out to me like what are you doing about your kids and screen time and your whole family? And everyone is feeling disconnected. And so I was like, I have to talk to Tiffany, because I know that you are so knowledgeable and so passionate about this subject matter and your book twenty four to six, which is a genius title. I would expect nothing less from you. It's brilliant, and I wanted just to talk to you to see what your experience has been personally, and also eventually at some point in this conversation for recommendations for people, because there's a lot of great ideas, but how do you do stuff in practical terms?

Yes, Well, first of all, it's so great to see you and to be talking to you again, and yeah, my whole career from a very young age. I had the Apple to E before the Mac. I had the Mac. I was so excited about the potential computers connecting us all over the world before the Web, and then I found out the webby Awards when the Web started, and I was like deeply immersed. And my husband's a professor of robotics. We're super into both what does technology amplify and what does it amputate? Because while we're ooh, what does.

Yes, Well, first of all, it's so great to see you and to be talking to you again, and yeah, my whole career from a very young age. I had the Apple to E before the Mac. I had the Mac. I was so excited about the potential computers connecting us all over the world before the Web, and then I found out the webby Awards when the Web started, and I was like deeply immersed. And my husband's a professor of robotics. We're super into both what does technology amplify and what does it amputate? Because while we're ooh, what does.

It amplify and what does it amputate?

It amplify and what does it amputate?

Which is a Marshall mccluan idea who's an incredible media theorist around technology. Like you read his work even before the Web, and you're like, he's writing about today. But I think that's the big question for humanity as we move forward. What does it amplify? What does it amputate? And Ken and I both of our work has both celebrated and critiqued technology our whole career. It's like our longest running conversation between the two of us because he makes robots and we're always kind of experimenting early and I think we got addicted early too. It was eleven years ago I had this very dramatic year in my life, which I chronicled in my film Connected and Connected is a feature documentary that both explores the history of technology and humanity and me losing my biggest connection, which was my father and my daughter being born within days of each other. And it was a real wake up call for me that I did not like how distracted I was. This was twelve years ago before the word digital detox was even expressed, and no one was really talking about it, but I knew I did not like the way I felt. I felt distracted. I felt like I wasn't present. I felt like I couldn't enjoy the things I normally enjoyed without looking at my phone. So my husband and I started, so we had a six year old and we had a newborn, and we started turning off all screens from Friday night to Saturday night for what we called our technology Shabbats. I should say that I am Jewish, but I am not religious. I love love being Jewish, for the comedy, the food, the intellectual wrestling, but I don't believe in God. And I think that's important because most people I knew that did Shabbat and certainly a full day of rest were Orthodox. Jews. I always felt like too bad of a Jew to be able to do that. And for those of you that don't know Shabbat, the concept is that it's the fourth commandment. Now shall have a day of rest. And it's even above on the commandments, honor thy mother and father. It's above do not commit murder. If you look at the ten Commandments from an intellect place, those are the ten ways to live a good life. Most Jews in America, if they do Shabbat, they'll light the candles that have holla, They'll have a nice dinner once a month or so. But the full Shabbat is a full day of rest.

Which is a Marshall mccluan idea who's an incredible media theorist around technology. Like you read his work even before the Web, and you're like, he's writing about today. But I think that's the big question for humanity as we move forward. What does it amplify? What does it amputate? And Ken and I both of our work has both celebrated and critiqued technology our whole career. It's like our longest running conversation between the two of us because he makes robots and we're always kind of experimenting early and I think we got addicted early too. It was eleven years ago I had this very dramatic year in my life, which I chronicled in my film Connected and Connected is a feature documentary that both explores the history of technology and humanity and me losing my biggest connection, which was my father and my daughter being born within days of each other. And it was a real wake up call for me that I did not like how distracted I was. This was twelve years ago before the word digital detox was even expressed, and no one was really talking about it, but I knew I did not like the way I felt. I felt distracted. I felt like I wasn't present. I felt like I couldn't enjoy the things I normally enjoyed without looking at my phone. So my husband and I started, so we had a six year old and we had a newborn, and we started turning off all screens from Friday night to Saturday night for what we called our technology Shabbats. I should say that I am Jewish, but I am not religious. I love love being Jewish, for the comedy, the food, the intellectual wrestling, but I don't believe in God. And I think that's important because most people I knew that did Shabbat and certainly a full day of rest were Orthodox. Jews. I always felt like too bad of a Jew to be able to do that. And for those of you that don't know Shabbat, the concept is that it's the fourth commandment. Now shall have a day of rest. And it's even above on the commandments, honor thy mother and father. It's above do not commit murder. If you look at the ten Commandments from an intellect place, those are the ten ways to live a good life. Most Jews in America, if they do Shabbat, they'll light the candles that have holla, They'll have a nice dinner once a month or so. But the full Shabbat is a full day of rest.

And what's behind that? What is the thinking behind a full day of rest?

And what's behind that? What is the thinking behind a full day of rest?

Okay, that's a great question. There's a lot of different ways you could answer that, but I think the way I will answer that is that to contribute best to yourself, your family, and society, you must have a day of rest, appreciation, presence, inward reflection, connecting with your family, connect if you're not in a family, connecting to yourself in order to do all the things you want to do in the world. That's the way I look at it. That it's I think the most brilliant idea.

Okay, that's a great question. There's a lot of different ways you could answer that, but I think the way I will answer that is that to contribute best to yourself, your family, and society, you must have a day of rest, appreciation, presence, inward reflection, connecting with your family, connect if you're not in a family, connecting to yourself in order to do all the things you want to do in the world. That's the way I look at it. That it's I think the most brilliant idea.

I mean brilliant, it's profound.

I mean brilliant, it's profound.

It's in actually every culture, it's just now only done by super religious and observant people. And for me, what was so exciting as like a sexual sexual secular sexual and secular Jew to think about, You can't sexual Jew. I actually something very funny is.

It's in actually every culture, it's just now only done by super religious and observant people. And for me, what was so exciting as like a sexual sexual secular sexual and secular Jew to think about, You can't sexual Jew. I actually something very funny is.

That Tiffany the sexual Jew.

That Tiffany the sexual Jew.

But the funny thing is it's known to be really good to have sex on Schabbat. So why because you're supposed to do things that are nurturing. So it's like a double missing in Catholicism sex is bad, but than Judaism, Like not only is sex good, but they want you to have sex on Shabbat because it's your day of presence. And so the whole concept is there's one day of joy and learning and presence with your family. And what I've now learned is because I've done a lot of rear, I was so fascinated by the concept.

But the funny thing is it's known to be really good to have sex on Schabbat. So why because you're supposed to do things that are nurturing. So it's like a double missing in Catholicism sex is bad, but than Judaism, Like not only is sex good, but they want you to have sex on Shabbat because it's your day of presence. And so the whole concept is there's one day of joy and learning and presence with your family. And what I've now learned is because I've done a lot of rear, I was so fascinated by the concept.

I can't start thinking about you being a sexual Jew.

I can't start thinking about you being a sexual Jew.

Now I'm a sexual Jew. That is It's so funny because I've always felt like the words secular sounds so cold and I don't like using it for myself even though I would describe myself that way, but I think a sexual Jew it's much better way to describe it. It's much warmer.

Now I'm a sexual Jew. That is It's so funny because I've always felt like the words secular sounds so cold and I don't like using it for myself even though I would describe myself that way, but I think a sexual Jew it's much better way to describe it. It's much warmer.

I learned to this.

I learned to this.

Anyway. So we were doing it purely like I wasn't feeling good. My husband was also feeling very distracted, and we thought, let's just try this experiment. And we were part of this group called Reboot that was doing a national Day I'm Plugging. So we around with like sixty people, decided to turn off all screens, and literally it was exactly what I needed. It was like this oasis of calm I hadn't felt in so long, and presence and all these things. And so then we did it the next week, the next week, the next week, and most people we did it with for that National Day I'm Plugging just did it that one time. For the year, we never stopped doing it, and the benefits got better. I felt more creative on my all my best ideas always come on Saturdays. I laughed more on Saturday, I slept better. I felt like the best mom that day, the best wife, I like the best person of myself. And so the longer we did it, the more addicted everyone became. So now if you imagine we started this eleven years ago, then like about five years ago, it was just out of control. You couldn't walk anywhere in New York without everyone staring at their phones. And you went to dinner, everyone pulled their phones. It was like a yawn. One person would pull it out, everyone pull it out, and everyone would disengage me.

Anyway. So we were doing it purely like I wasn't feeling good. My husband was also feeling very distracted, and we thought, let's just try this experiment. And we were part of this group called Reboot that was doing a national Day I'm Plugging. So we around with like sixty people, decided to turn off all screens, and literally it was exactly what I needed. It was like this oasis of calm I hadn't felt in so long, and presence and all these things. And so then we did it the next week, the next week, the next week, and most people we did it with for that National Day I'm Plugging just did it that one time. For the year, we never stopped doing it, and the benefits got better. I felt more creative on my all my best ideas always come on Saturdays. I laughed more on Saturday, I slept better. I felt like the best mom that day, the best wife, I like the best person of myself. And so the longer we did it, the more addicted everyone became. So now if you imagine we started this eleven years ago, then like about five years ago, it was just out of control. You couldn't walk anywhere in New York without everyone staring at their phones. And you went to dinner, everyone pulled their phones. It was like a yawn. One person would pull it out, everyone pull it out, and everyone would disengage me.

It's like a weird permission. It's like, oh, you're cool with phones at the table. Great, and then everyone gets that all yeah, And I.

It's like a weird permission. It's like, oh, you're cool with phones at the table. Great, and then everyone gets that all yeah, And I.

Was like, oh my god, what's happening to society? So I started doing this and then eventually the benefits just, you know, only just doubled and amplified in my life. And I think because I'm a woman of tech, I'm not anti tech. I'm just anti tech twenty four to seven and carving out this whole day every week with my family, and really it's family day. I mean, it was interesting what you were saying is that it's the day. It's When I was growing up, Sunday was family day because these stairs used to be close, right, But you don't have that anymore. So it's a day we don't schedule a lot, we're with each other, you know, Friday night. We all always have people over for dinner, and if our kids want to be we'll invite our kids friends, family.

Was like, oh my god, what's happening to society? So I started doing this and then eventually the benefits just, you know, only just doubled and amplified in my life. And I think because I'm a woman of tech, I'm not anti tech. I'm just anti tech twenty four to seven and carving out this whole day every week with my family, and really it's family day. I mean, it was interesting what you were saying is that it's the day. It's When I was growing up, Sunday was family day because these stairs used to be close, right, But you don't have that anymore. So it's a day we don't schedule a lot, we're with each other, you know, Friday night. We all always have people over for dinner, and if our kids want to be we'll invite our kids friends, family.

How old are your kids now?

How old are your kids now?

I have an almost eighteen year old and almost twelve year old.

I have an almost eighteen year old and almost twelve year old.

Oh my gosh, this is your okay, So Atlanta is twenty eight and my twins are fourteen.

Oh my gosh, this is your okay, So Atlanta is twenty eight and my twins are fourteen.

That's what I remember. Your twins were round in my.

That's what I remember. Your twins were round in my.

Souperh Yes, so they're fourteen. And that's the tricky pot, right, is the teens who have really no experience of socializing and engagement with their friends without screens. They've come of age at a time where that's the mode of communication. They don't text. They do snapchat photos with like right, you know, with like text on top of it. Like that's how they're communicating.

Souperh Yes, so they're fourteen. And that's the tricky pot, right, is the teens who have really no experience of socializing and engagement with their friends without screens. They've come of age at a time where that's the mode of communication. They don't text. They do snapchat photos with like right, you know, with like text on top of it. Like that's how they're communicating.

I mean, my kids are They're not like Waldorf kids. They love the technology. But I think what it has taught them to have a whole day every week without it is that they can live without that. They can have a conversation around at dinner table without it, you know, having two daughters, I mean we have one table, and I do like a guided conversation where everybody has the equal airtime. Because I was the youngest in a very talkative family, and I was always fighting fair time. So at our dinner table, everybody gets the same amount of time, and we pick a topic.

I mean, my kids are They're not like Waldorf kids. They love the technology. But I think what it has taught them to have a whole day every week without it is that they can live without that. They can have a conversation around at dinner table without it, you know, having two daughters, I mean we have one table, and I do like a guided conversation where everybody has the equal airtime. Because I was the youngest in a very talkative family, and I was always fighting fair time. So at our dinner table, everybody gets the same amount of time, and we pick a topic.

And what I think a topic at dinner, well, what we do.

And what I think a topic at dinner, well, what we do.

I'm actually designing my own version. But I use conversation cards. So if you think about shabat, it's really like having Thanksgiving meal every week because everyone has to say one thing they're grateful for. And Chabot's all about the week frame of time. And then I have cards that have been our youngest daughter has put them out each card and she leads this discussion again because I would see youngest child and she says, everyone say one thing you're grateful for, and how this word on this card pertains to your week. And the words are everything from something that made you laugh, the benefit of the doubt, humility like it can be concepts or words and you have to think about your can pretend it. So it's the deepest conversation of the week. It is the funniest, the most revealing. I mean, because our weekly dinners it's like we do a highlight in low light, but they're like a half an hour and you know whatever, But the fact.

I'm actually designing my own version. But I use conversation cards. So if you think about shabat, it's really like having Thanksgiving meal every week because everyone has to say one thing they're grateful for. And Chabot's all about the week frame of time. And then I have cards that have been our youngest daughter has put them out each card and she leads this discussion again because I would see youngest child and she says, everyone say one thing you're grateful for, and how this word on this card pertains to your week. And the words are everything from something that made you laugh, the benefit of the doubt, humility like it can be concepts or words and you have to think about your can pretend it. So it's the deepest conversation of the week. It is the funniest, the most revealing. I mean, because our weekly dinners it's like we do a highlight in low light, but they're like a half an hour and you know whatever, But the fact.

That your kids participate and they're on board with it. I mean, I don't know if I could get my kids to do that. My kids will sit at a table, if I can get both of them to sit.

That your kids participate and they're on board with it. I mean, I don't know if I could get my kids to do that. My kids will sit at a table, if I can get both of them to sit.

Do you have no screens at the table or yeah.

Do you have no screens at the table or yeah.

No screens at the table. That's a hard rule, you know. I mean, look, I'm interested in conversation, that's right. I really believe in the power of conversation and shed experiences and the power of storytelling and intergenerational storytelling, and obviously a family is a perfect scenario to check those boxes. However, I have found it very challenging to get them both to sit at the table. They want to eat at different times, They're on different kind of schedules. One of their sleeps is messed up up, so she's eating much later. One doesn't like to eat breakfast, sinking everybody up is Oh, I agree, and it actually the six days of the week.

No screens at the table. That's a hard rule, you know. I mean, look, I'm interested in conversation, that's right. I really believe in the power of conversation and shed experiences and the power of storytelling and intergenerational storytelling, and obviously a family is a perfect scenario to check those boxes. However, I have found it very challenging to get them both to sit at the table. They want to eat at different times, They're on different kind of schedules. One of their sleeps is messed up up, so she's eating much later. One doesn't like to eat breakfast, sinking everybody up is Oh, I agree, and it actually the six days of the week.

We only have one meal together during the week, and it's dinner. Because every day at a different time, every lunch at a different That's why I'm saying, like the special Friday night dinner with sometimes their friends families, which is a great way to get to know who your kids are hanging out with, and it's special. We set the table, we make all the foods. We resist from it's glue. I make fresh bread, we have ice cream, whatever everybody wants. It's like a decadent, gorgeous meal, like I think, because it's special, we set you know, flowers, you know, we do the whole thing. And that's actually a really beautiful idea of the concept of like schwat dinner. Because basically parenting is all about modeling behaviors. So I will admit to you something that was happening to because we used to have no screens in the bedroom and we're a two story house, so there's kind of no screens upstairs. And then, of course with a pandemic that went to shit. I mean, their bedrooms became their classrooms. We on our date nights used to go to the movies, and now we put a TV in our bedroom. Suddenly the screens were like multiplying upstairs. And there was a point like three months ago where it got so slippery and the bedtimes and the screen, and I was like, and here I've made films on how Kidney's never screens in the bedroom. Teens are known to check their phone like three times in the middle of Yeah, same with adults. At a certain point, kenn and I were like, whoa, we're getting back with the program. Here all these screens out of the bedroom in nine, so we've.

We only have one meal together during the week, and it's dinner. Because every day at a different time, every lunch at a different That's why I'm saying, like the special Friday night dinner with sometimes their friends families, which is a great way to get to know who your kids are hanging out with, and it's special. We set the table, we make all the foods. We resist from it's glue. I make fresh bread, we have ice cream, whatever everybody wants. It's like a decadent, gorgeous meal, like I think, because it's special, we set you know, flowers, you know, we do the whole thing. And that's actually a really beautiful idea of the concept of like schwat dinner. Because basically parenting is all about modeling behaviors. So I will admit to you something that was happening to because we used to have no screens in the bedroom and we're a two story house, so there's kind of no screens upstairs. And then, of course with a pandemic that went to shit. I mean, their bedrooms became their classrooms. We on our date nights used to go to the movies, and now we put a TV in our bedroom. Suddenly the screens were like multiplying upstairs. And there was a point like three months ago where it got so slippery and the bedtimes and the screen, and I was like, and here I've made films on how Kidney's never screens in the bedroom. Teens are known to check their phone like three times in the middle of Yeah, same with adults. At a certain point, kenn and I were like, whoa, we're getting back with the program. Here all these screens out of the bedroom in nine, so we've.

Got out nine okay. What was their response to that?

Got out nine okay. What was their response to that?

I mean, I think you just need to be parents and be like, you know what, we pay the bills. You live in our house, right, this is the rule of the house. But here I haven't even gotten to the park. So and sure enough they were sleeping better, even if they fought it. At first, they felt better. There was like a more fun nighttime ritual because we'd be It just was like everyone wasn't in their own little worlds, which you never want all the time. I mean some of the time, that's okay. So then my youngest daughter, I was in my bedroom and I always I take a bath and I read. But because I was managing the situation, I still had my phone in my room. And as we know, when you're reading with the phone next do you not reading? You read a page there's something in the book that makes you think of the phone, and you're on the phone, and then you go back to the book. Yeah, it's like this distract a situation. So my younger daughter was like, Mom, why do you have the phone in the bedroom. Yeah, oh my god, you're absolutely right. My phone's going down with your So now at nine, I'm like, hey, and I even ask her to do it, Honey, will you put all of our skins? Here's my phone. We're all doing this together. You know, there's that expression where you can tell your kids something three thousand times, but they're just watching what you do.

I mean, I think you just need to be parents and be like, you know what, we pay the bills. You live in our house, right, this is the rule of the house. But here I haven't even gotten to the park. So and sure enough they were sleeping better, even if they fought it. At first, they felt better. There was like a more fun nighttime ritual because we'd be It just was like everyone wasn't in their own little worlds, which you never want all the time. I mean some of the time, that's okay. So then my youngest daughter, I was in my bedroom and I always I take a bath and I read. But because I was managing the situation, I still had my phone in my room. And as we know, when you're reading with the phone next do you not reading? You read a page there's something in the book that makes you think of the phone, and you're on the phone, and then you go back to the book. Yeah, it's like this distract a situation. So my younger daughter was like, Mom, why do you have the phone in the bedroom. Yeah, oh my god, you're absolutely right. My phone's going down with your So now at nine, I'm like, hey, and I even ask her to do it, Honey, will you put all of our skins? Here's my phone. We're all doing this together. You know, there's that expression where you can tell your kids something three thousand times, but they're just watching what you do.

Yeah, we are the Wi Fi no pun intended in our home, and what we do as parents is what gives the signal to them of what they can and they cannot do. And I think a lot of the issues with screens reflect back to parents and bring up the question of as parents, how reliant am I on my phone? Can I put my phone down? Am I on my phone at night? Am I able to have a conversation without thinking? Oh? I turn all my notifications off? Everything's off. I don't have texts that come up on the screen. Every single notification is off. My ringer is off one hundred percent of the time.

Yeah, we are the Wi Fi no pun intended in our home, and what we do as parents is what gives the signal to them of what they can and they cannot do. And I think a lot of the issues with screens reflect back to parents and bring up the question of as parents, how reliant am I on my phone? Can I put my phone down? Am I on my phone at night? Am I able to have a conversation without thinking? Oh? I turn all my notifications off? Everything's off. I don't have texts that come up on the screen. Every single notification is off. My ringer is off one hundred percent of the time.

You know they say that you check it like eighty times a day. Anyways, you don't need it to also interrupt what you're doing.

You know they say that you check it like eighty times a day. Anyways, you don't need it to also interrupt what you're doing.

I don't want it. When I'm ready, I will check it, so and if you need to get hold of me, you know, the truth is like I've been at home for a year anyway. But the point is is that that those are things that I do, and my family gets frustrated. They're like, oh, we can never get hold of you. I'm like, listen, I will set it to a certain ring so that if it's you and you really need me, it will alert me. But otherwise everything's off, and having to check my own reliance on screens. And I remember, like I didn't grow up with the internet right in the same way, and so I remember feeling so lonely when I would just spend hours and hours by myself in my bedroom, have it like just not being able to see friends, feeling so lonely, either because I wasn't invited, I wasn't included, or for whatever reason I had to be in my home and I was so isolated and so lonely, and learning to manage that feeling of discomfort and loneliness and isolation because I couldn't just pick up my phone and distract myself from that uncomfortable feeling. Even though it was a hard feeling to learn to deal with. It also taught me to deal with uncomfortable feelings. Standing in line at a coffee shop waiting for your coffee, when there's people in front of you, behind you, and everyone's just kind of standing there. That's where I've met some really interesting people. That's where I've had great conversations. That's where I've learned to manage my feeling of self consciousness or like, oh God, why did I wear this thing? I feel so awkward in it, or like I didn't clean my teeth, or like managing all those discomfort feelings, which is a huge pot of life. When you bring a phone into it and you bring a screen into it, you don't have to manage those uncomfortable feelings in the same way. There is no muscle memory that's being built for dealing with those awkward situations because you just picked up the phone. Bye bye loneliness, Bye bye awkwardness, and bye bye spontaneous moment for conversation.

I don't want it. When I'm ready, I will check it, so and if you need to get hold of me, you know, the truth is like I've been at home for a year anyway. But the point is is that that those are things that I do, and my family gets frustrated. They're like, oh, we can never get hold of you. I'm like, listen, I will set it to a certain ring so that if it's you and you really need me, it will alert me. But otherwise everything's off, and having to check my own reliance on screens. And I remember, like I didn't grow up with the internet right in the same way, and so I remember feeling so lonely when I would just spend hours and hours by myself in my bedroom, have it like just not being able to see friends, feeling so lonely, either because I wasn't invited, I wasn't included, or for whatever reason I had to be in my home and I was so isolated and so lonely, and learning to manage that feeling of discomfort and loneliness and isolation because I couldn't just pick up my phone and distract myself from that uncomfortable feeling. Even though it was a hard feeling to learn to deal with. It also taught me to deal with uncomfortable feelings. Standing in line at a coffee shop waiting for your coffee, when there's people in front of you, behind you, and everyone's just kind of standing there. That's where I've met some really interesting people. That's where I've had great conversations. That's where I've learned to manage my feeling of self consciousness or like, oh God, why did I wear this thing? I feel so awkward in it, or like I didn't clean my teeth, or like managing all those discomfort feelings, which is a huge pot of life. When you bring a phone into it and you bring a screen into it, you don't have to manage those uncomfortable feelings in the same way. There is no muscle memory that's being built for dealing with those awkward situations because you just picked up the phone. Bye bye loneliness, Bye bye awkwardness, and bye bye spontaneous moment for conversation.

Yeah, I think that's right on the uncomfortableness, even boredom, which there's been so much research and I'm super interested in this topic too, just how boredom leads to creativity because you you have to just sit with yourself. And this new quote I heard from Rumy, who's one of my favorite pots on is I'm not going to get this exactly what it was, something they'd like to be like, always remember to make appointments to check in with yourself. And I think that with the screens, we've created this environment where you never have to really check in with yourself because you're reacting, you're responding, you're stressing out your connect You're like always in response to everything but yourself. And I really feel like on my Saturdays, so Friday's very social, but Saturdays are the day that I reflect and I think about things, I do some writing. On that day. I connect with my family. We don't make a lot of plans. It's like we go in nature, we cook, we nap, we read, we whatever. We do. Whatever they want to do too. And that's a key part of getting your kids on board. It's like, what do you want to do and it just can't evolve screens. And I even have a whole section at the back of my book Great Things to Do Without Screens by Age and I kind of was joking when I first put it in there, but so many people have referenced it. I mean, people like, what can we do? I'm like, okay, let me do no time machine. There was lots of things that brought us joys that a screen was not in sight. And so Saturday is a very analog pleasure day and I love it. And actually, the pandemic has brought a lot of analog pleasures into my life that I want to make sure don't go away when the pandemic ends. Because I never used to take our baths every night. I never used to read for an hour and a half to two hours every night. I never took hour and a half walks with my dog every day. I mean, like these have been coping mechanisms, but they have brought so much pleasure to my life. And I think also as I've gotten older, I just turned fifty this year, congratulations, thank you. I've always looked forward to showing fifty half century. I have because my parents always they started their second careers at fifty. They got happier at fifty. They really kind of came into themselves. But what I was going to say is that as I've gotten older, whenever I've brought a new ritual into my life, my life has gotten better. And you know, when I was younger, I was all about like living on the edge and traveling all over the world and where am I going to end up tomorrow? And who does where all be there? But I find that rituals are very beautiful and comforting and keep me grounded so that I can be really radical. There's this great Flowbear quote that like like something about rituals and routines will make you radical in your work. That by having these grounding rituals, they free you up creatively, and they free up your brain to go in unusual places.

Yeah, I think that's right on the uncomfortableness, even boredom, which there's been so much research and I'm super interested in this topic too, just how boredom leads to creativity because you you have to just sit with yourself. And this new quote I heard from Rumy, who's one of my favorite pots on is I'm not going to get this exactly what it was, something they'd like to be like, always remember to make appointments to check in with yourself. And I think that with the screens, we've created this environment where you never have to really check in with yourself because you're reacting, you're responding, you're stressing out your connect You're like always in response to everything but yourself. And I really feel like on my Saturdays, so Friday's very social, but Saturdays are the day that I reflect and I think about things, I do some writing. On that day. I connect with my family. We don't make a lot of plans. It's like we go in nature, we cook, we nap, we read, we whatever. We do. Whatever they want to do too. And that's a key part of getting your kids on board. It's like, what do you want to do and it just can't evolve screens. And I even have a whole section at the back of my book Great Things to Do Without Screens by Age and I kind of was joking when I first put it in there, but so many people have referenced it. I mean, people like, what can we do? I'm like, okay, let me do no time machine. There was lots of things that brought us joys that a screen was not in sight. And so Saturday is a very analog pleasure day and I love it. And actually, the pandemic has brought a lot of analog pleasures into my life that I want to make sure don't go away when the pandemic ends. Because I never used to take our baths every night. I never used to read for an hour and a half to two hours every night. I never took hour and a half walks with my dog every day. I mean, like these have been coping mechanisms, but they have brought so much pleasure to my life. And I think also as I've gotten older, I just turned fifty this year, congratulations, thank you. I've always looked forward to showing fifty half century. I have because my parents always they started their second careers at fifty. They got happier at fifty. They really kind of came into themselves. But what I was going to say is that as I've gotten older, whenever I've brought a new ritual into my life, my life has gotten better. And you know, when I was younger, I was all about like living on the edge and traveling all over the world and where am I going to end up tomorrow? And who does where all be there? But I find that rituals are very beautiful and comforting and keep me grounded so that I can be really radical. There's this great Flowbear quote that like like something about rituals and routines will make you radical in your work. That by having these grounding rituals, they free you up creatively, and they free up your brain to go in unusual places.

I too, was very unstructured, and I grew up hosting live TV all over the world, which was the most unstructured, spontaneous job I could have, and I did that from age fifteen, and so I was like, oh, I got to get on a plane and go to wherever and interview somebody live from the middle of a field somewhere, or whatever crazy thing I was doing. And it was very hard to create structure, which is what my kids needed. When I had one baby, I took that baby all over the world with me and she's had a very hard time with structure because she didn't really get it. The only consistent thing was me growing up for her. But with my twins, and my husband is insanely structured. He is the most routine based person I've ever met, and so I really pushed against that, but he was like, no, no, these twins. In order for us to like not lose our minds, we need to have routine and consistency and structure. And I agree with that quote that when you create that system that anchors you, it gives you the security and the strength to go off the path because you're coming back to something that is stable and consistent that you can rely on. And it's almost like you internalize that. And that's growing up and being able to internalize a structure and a system inside yourself. It allows you to be more adventurous in not only your thinking, your creativity, but also your choices because you can come back to structure within yourself.

I too, was very unstructured, and I grew up hosting live TV all over the world, which was the most unstructured, spontaneous job I could have, and I did that from age fifteen, and so I was like, oh, I got to get on a plane and go to wherever and interview somebody live from the middle of a field somewhere, or whatever crazy thing I was doing. And it was very hard to create structure, which is what my kids needed. When I had one baby, I took that baby all over the world with me and she's had a very hard time with structure because she didn't really get it. The only consistent thing was me growing up for her. But with my twins, and my husband is insanely structured. He is the most routine based person I've ever met, and so I really pushed against that, but he was like, no, no, these twins. In order for us to like not lose our minds, we need to have routine and consistency and structure. And I agree with that quote that when you create that system that anchors you, it gives you the security and the strength to go off the path because you're coming back to something that is stable and consistent that you can rely on. And it's almost like you internalize that. And that's growing up and being able to internalize a structure and a system inside yourself. It allows you to be more adventurous in not only your thinking, your creativity, but also your choices because you can come back to structure within yourself.

Love the way you frame that. Yeah, and my older daughter is just going to college soon. That sounds like I'm premus. Yeah, anyways, that's a whole other conversation. But she's going to do textabot in college. I mean she says it's protected her from high school burnout. I mean, because they don't let them do homework on Saturday. So it's like, you know, you're not doing that, You're just doing things that bring you joy and rest.

Love the way you frame that. Yeah, and my older daughter is just going to college soon. That sounds like I'm premus. Yeah, anyways, that's a whole other conversation. But she's going to do textabot in college. I mean she says it's protected her from high school burnout. I mean, because they don't let them do homework on Saturday. So it's like, you know, you're not doing that, You're just doing things that bring you joy and rest.

But do they hang out with you or do they do this with their friends.

But do they hang out with you or do they do this with their friends.

So Friday night we will often have their friends over for our dinner, but Saturday is family day. I mean, again, this is about parents kind of saying Okay, as a family, this is what we value. But we believe as a family that one day a week is important to check in and come together. And you know, this is all about ways to regulate things in your life so you will lead a good life. But the truth is that it keeps changing, like what everyone's needs are. But the one thing that doesn't change is this one day. I think it's just like, listen, our job as parents is to kind of guide them and help with regulation until they're eighteen. Then they're you know, going to college whatever. But hopefully you're instilling enough as parents because you still are parents until eighteen. And I think just parents have thrown up their hands like I don't understand this, I've given up. I'm losing this battle, but take it back like go. You know, we have a family meeting. I love you guys, I love you so much, and we all love each other and there's just certain things as parents that we need to in state here to keep that structure one day a week or whatever your family decides. And in my book I talk about like for my family and for three thousand years, the concept of one day a week off is a profound concept. And what's been exciting is so many people have read it now every different background, and it's like yoga and meditation. Here were these very ancient ideas from these cultures and then they were brought to the West, popularized, and people now understand yoga and meditation make your life better. This is an ancient idea of take one day off. And what does one day off in our modern society means? Like I feel like that's what happens every week for me is I do a lot of journaling on Saturday morning, and I think about what really inspired me, what made me laugh, and what drained me, what like energy was draining or activity was draining.

So Friday night we will often have their friends over for our dinner, but Saturday is family day. I mean, again, this is about parents kind of saying Okay, as a family, this is what we value. But we believe as a family that one day a week is important to check in and come together. And you know, this is all about ways to regulate things in your life so you will lead a good life. But the truth is that it keeps changing, like what everyone's needs are. But the one thing that doesn't change is this one day. I think it's just like, listen, our job as parents is to kind of guide them and help with regulation until they're eighteen. Then they're you know, going to college whatever. But hopefully you're instilling enough as parents because you still are parents until eighteen. And I think just parents have thrown up their hands like I don't understand this, I've given up. I'm losing this battle, but take it back like go. You know, we have a family meeting. I love you guys, I love you so much, and we all love each other and there's just certain things as parents that we need to in state here to keep that structure one day a week or whatever your family decides. And in my book I talk about like for my family and for three thousand years, the concept of one day a week off is a profound concept. And what's been exciting is so many people have read it now every different background, and it's like yoga and meditation. Here were these very ancient ideas from these cultures and then they were brought to the West, popularized, and people now understand yoga and meditation make your life better. This is an ancient idea of take one day off. And what does one day off in our modern society means? Like I feel like that's what happens every week for me is I do a lot of journaling on Saturday morning, and I think about what really inspired me, what made me laugh, and what drained me, what like energy was draining or activity was draining.

If you love the conversation, then I wanted to tell you about another podcast. I hope called VS Voices. The VS Voice is put cost provides a platform for women to speak their diverse truths, share personal stories, and advanced discussions of issues that are important to them. You can listen to voices on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

If you love the conversation, then I wanted to tell you about another podcast. I hope called VS Voices. The VS Voice is put cost provides a platform for women to speak their diverse truths, share personal stories, and advanced discussions of issues that are important to them. You can listen to voices on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

You Know, here's the biggest thing I'll tell you is the difference in my life since I started doing textraot is that the online world is designed through thousands of scientists and programmers and designed to keep you glued to the screen, hooked, hooked, So you are designed to want that next email, want that new stressful news headline, and want that next notification, Want the shoes that keep popping up in the advertisement. Want Want, Want, Want Want. It's like it wakes up the beast inside of you, your animal instincts, and you are in a constant state of wanting more. And here's the thing, you will never get to the end because it's designed that way. Now, I will tell you every Friday night, I race towards turning off my screens. When I turn them off, I immediately from a sense of wanting what I don't have a where I'm not or wanting more of something I don't know, and it switches from want to appreciation of what I have right in front of me. It's so media. Suddenly I'm like, oh my gosh, my home, my animals, my family, the food. I don't want to be anywhere but right here. And then that whole day, I'm just in this state of appreciation and I don't want anything.

You Know, here's the biggest thing I'll tell you is the difference in my life since I started doing textraot is that the online world is designed through thousands of scientists and programmers and designed to keep you glued to the screen, hooked, hooked, So you are designed to want that next email, want that new stressful news headline, and want that next notification, Want the shoes that keep popping up in the advertisement. Want Want, Want, Want Want. It's like it wakes up the beast inside of you, your animal instincts, and you are in a constant state of wanting more. And here's the thing, you will never get to the end because it's designed that way. Now, I will tell you every Friday night, I race towards turning off my screens. When I turn them off, I immediately from a sense of wanting what I don't have a where I'm not or wanting more of something I don't know, and it switches from want to appreciation of what I have right in front of me. It's so media. Suddenly I'm like, oh my gosh, my home, my animals, my family, the food. I don't want to be anywhere but right here. And then that whole day, I'm just in this state of appreciation and I don't want anything.

Well, you're in the present.

Well, you're in the present.

But then I'm also it has a double effect by going off a whole day every week is that Saturday night, you know, I'm like, I'm psyched to see what happened in the world. Like I'm both psyched to go off it and I appreciate even the Internet when I go back on. But I do a lot of films on neuroscience, and you've seen my work. It's a lot of neuroscience. And my father was a brain start, a bit of super interested in my mom's psychologist. That's what I'm most interested is both the kind of biology and psychology of why we do what we do. And the term I heard yesterday is hedonic adaptation and it comes from heat hedonism. Yeah, hedonic adaptation that you've brain you acclimate to that need and desire, which is like food, drugs, social media, binging a show like you're setting, you're setting too.

But then I'm also it has a double effect by going off a whole day every week is that Saturday night, you know, I'm like, I'm psyched to see what happened in the world. Like I'm both psyched to go off it and I appreciate even the Internet when I go back on. But I do a lot of films on neuroscience, and you've seen my work. It's a lot of neuroscience. And my father was a brain start, a bit of super interested in my mom's psychologist. That's what I'm most interested is both the kind of biology and psychology of why we do what we do. And the term I heard yesterday is hedonic adaptation and it comes from heat hedonism. Yeah, hedonic adaptation that you've brain you acclimate to that need and desire, which is like food, drugs, social media, binging a show like you're setting, you're setting too.

Well, let's talk about this because we mentioned screen addiction and you were talking about being present and doing the screen schabot, and what that brought to mind was how a lot of people use screens, social media, whatever screen we're talking about here, in order to escape their life and make their life manageable because their life is challenging in whatever different ways it is. There's no question the shift in brain chemistry that occurs. You're talking about the dopamine when we look at depression, and you obviously can speak to this way more than I can. But the lack of dopamine in a person's brain who's suffering from depression, the high that comes from what we're talking about with the screens, the validation, the engagement, it does increase your dopamine. So of course people are feeling better if they're unhappy in theirselves and their lives, whether it's food, sex, shopping, gambling, porn, Internet, all the things that people go to in order to escape and feel better. And there is no question that I know that the DSM has a diagnosis now for screen addiction, I know that there are multiple not enough, by the way, and I've looked into this for various reasons. There are a couple of treatment centers that focus on screen addiction internet addiction. The majority of them are connected to people who have porn addiction, which I found interesting because not everyone that has a screen addiction has an addiction to porn. Gaming gamers might spend three or four days straight gaming, not showering, not eating diet coke, and whatever the hell they're doing to stay awake. You know, this is a very real addiction, and it's becoming more and more and more, and yet there is very little support in place for people who may think they have an addiction to screens. But the neurology of it is exactly what you're saying, which is setting the bar your neuropathways are getting, especially for kids. And this is the piece that I think about the developing brain, the developing brain that is now used to having these dopamine hits from gaming, from likes, the various ways that validation is occurring, Right, what is that doing that's setting their brains up. They're developing brains up to seek dopamine hits in order just not even for the high just to feel normal, and so what are those behaviors that they are going to seek in addition to the screens in order to have that dopamine high. In my limited perspective, it is setting people up for a lifetime of pleasure seeking, adrenaline seeking behaviors.

Well, let's talk about this because we mentioned screen addiction and you were talking about being present and doing the screen schabot, and what that brought to mind was how a lot of people use screens, social media, whatever screen we're talking about here, in order to escape their life and make their life manageable because their life is challenging in whatever different ways it is. There's no question the shift in brain chemistry that occurs. You're talking about the dopamine when we look at depression, and you obviously can speak to this way more than I can. But the lack of dopamine in a person's brain who's suffering from depression, the high that comes from what we're talking about with the screens, the validation, the engagement, it does increase your dopamine. So of course people are feeling better if they're unhappy in theirselves and their lives, whether it's food, sex, shopping, gambling, porn, Internet, all the things that people go to in order to escape and feel better. And there is no question that I know that the DSM has a diagnosis now for screen addiction, I know that there are multiple not enough, by the way, and I've looked into this for various reasons. There are a couple of treatment centers that focus on screen addiction internet addiction. The majority of them are connected to people who have porn addiction, which I found interesting because not everyone that has a screen addiction has an addiction to porn. Gaming gamers might spend three or four days straight gaming, not showering, not eating diet coke, and whatever the hell they're doing to stay awake. You know, this is a very real addiction, and it's becoming more and more and more, and yet there is very little support in place for people who may think they have an addiction to screens. But the neurology of it is exactly what you're saying, which is setting the bar your neuropathways are getting, especially for kids. And this is the piece that I think about the developing brain, the developing brain that is now used to having these dopamine hits from gaming, from likes, the various ways that validation is occurring, Right, what is that doing that's setting their brains up. They're developing brains up to seek dopamine hits in order just not even for the high just to feel normal, and so what are those behaviors that they are going to seek in addition to the screens in order to have that dopamine high. In my limited perspective, it is setting people up for a lifetime of pleasure seeking, adrenaline seeking behaviors.

Okay, you hit on so many things that I'm glad you've hit on. So Harvard is just starting a new digital wellness lab that I've been on the board for years. Doctor Michael Rich heads it up. He's brilliant. It's all about what we're talking about. All the tech companies who know this is a problem and we're going to help try to find solutions for it.

Okay, you hit on so many things that I'm glad you've hit on. So Harvard is just starting a new digital wellness lab that I've been on the board for years. Doctor Michael Rich heads it up. He's brilliant. It's all about what we're talking about. All the tech companies who know this is a problem and we're going to help try to find solutions for it.

Thank God.

Thank God.

It's a wonderful board and it's a wonderful group and we all share the thoughts that you have and want to create research and access to the public to help people. The other thing that I was going to say is that I guess when you were talking about the people pick up the phone or the screen whatever to escape, and that's real. I mean there's a good hour and a half a day where I'm just like I need to zone out. Yeah, and just being a working mom, Like I'm sure you're like me, I'm running from the vet, the this to the that, to trying to manage the this and the that and all all of it while we're having a career. So the problem with always having such an easy access to be distracted, to escape, to be entertained is first of all, for especially for kids, you need to learn how to deal with those feelings exactly what you've said when you were a lonely teen, which I was too, and you learn how to be uncomfortable and how to work beyond it, which of course one of the greatest growth happens is when you're uncomfortable. But secondly, I worry that people think that all the power is in this phone. And I've asked people why are you afraid? Because people go, oh my god, I read your book. I've gotten I'm too afraid to do it, And I really sit with them, I'm like, what are you afraid of? And what happens when you turn off the phone and you have to deal with not being able to escape, is you find your own power. That's why every great wisdom practice, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, everything says And again I'm not even a religious person, but I'm going to tell you. What I love is the idea that you have to, as Rumy says, make plants to check in with yourself.

It's a wonderful board and it's a wonderful group and we all share the thoughts that you have and want to create research and access to the public to help people. The other thing that I was going to say is that I guess when you were talking about the people pick up the phone or the screen whatever to escape, and that's real. I mean there's a good hour and a half a day where I'm just like I need to zone out. Yeah, and just being a working mom, Like I'm sure you're like me, I'm running from the vet, the this to the that, to trying to manage the this and the that and all all of it while we're having a career. So the problem with always having such an easy access to be distracted, to escape, to be entertained is first of all, for especially for kids, you need to learn how to deal with those feelings exactly what you've said when you were a lonely teen, which I was too, and you learn how to be uncomfortable and how to work beyond it, which of course one of the greatest growth happens is when you're uncomfortable. But secondly, I worry that people think that all the power is in this phone. And I've asked people why are you afraid? Because people go, oh my god, I read your book. I've gotten I'm too afraid to do it, And I really sit with them, I'm like, what are you afraid of? And what happens when you turn off the phone and you have to deal with not being able to escape, is you find your own power. That's why every great wisdom practice, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, everything says And again I'm not even a religious person, but I'm going to tell you. What I love is the idea that you have to, as Rumy says, make plants to check in with yourself.

And it's about that, And sorry I could cut you off there, but essentially what we're talking about it is setting up a mindset that the power is outside of you, that you are always going to people, places, and things in order to fill yourself. That is the big lie. The lie is that those things outside of ourselves will fix you and help you to feel better. That is not the truth. The truth is in you. You are the one.

And it's about that, And sorry I could cut you off there, but essentially what we're talking about it is setting up a mindset that the power is outside of you, that you are always going to people, places, and things in order to fill yourself. That is the big lie. The lie is that those things outside of ourselves will fix you and help you to feel better. That is not the truth. The truth is in you. You are the one.

And if you have the courage to carve out time as an individual, as a parent and make your kids do it, they're going to build these muscles and resources that will help them throughout the rest of their lives. And if any second they're uncomfortable call out that phone, that muscle gets strengthened in their brain. Uncomfortable escape, escape, escape, and.

And if you have the courage to carve out time as an individual, as a parent and make your kids do it, they're going to build these muscles and resources that will help them throughout the rest of their lives. And if any second they're uncomfortable call out that phone, that muscle gets strengthened in their brain. Uncomfortable escape, escape, escape, and.

They won't have the tools to We're actually doing them a disservice. We're doing them a disservice by non allowing our kids to fail to feel uncomfortable, to struggle, to feel overwhelmed. It's like the overparenting as well, you know which I'm also kind of obsessed with because in America it's quite different to Europe in the way that parenting is approached and it comes from a loving place. People don't want their kids to suffer, but there is something really valuable about suffering. There's something really valuable about overcoming adversity, about surviving loneliness, dealing with feeling shame and embarrassment and humiliation. If we're not allowing our kids to have these experiences that literally the neuropathways are not developing to teach them how to do this, they're going to get out in the world and be a forty year old man or you know, individual and not know how to handle this stuff. And the wreckage and the chaos that comes from escaping uncomfortable feelings can be catastrophic. I've seen it.

They won't have the tools to We're actually doing them a disservice. We're doing them a disservice by non allowing our kids to fail to feel uncomfortable, to struggle, to feel overwhelmed. It's like the overparenting as well, you know which I'm also kind of obsessed with because in America it's quite different to Europe in the way that parenting is approached and it comes from a loving place. People don't want their kids to suffer, but there is something really valuable about suffering. There's something really valuable about overcoming adversity, about surviving loneliness, dealing with feeling shame and embarrassment and humiliation. If we're not allowing our kids to have these experiences that literally the neuropathways are not developing to teach them how to do this, they're going to get out in the world and be a forty year old man or you know, individual and not know how to handle this stuff. And the wreckage and the chaos that comes from escaping uncomfortable feelings can be catastrophic. I've seen it.

It's the new drug.

It's the new drug.

It's a drug with no age limit on it, with no warnings on it. I think there should be a warning on apps. I think there should be a warning on devices that let people know what the possible impact is mental health challenges.

It's a drug with no age limit on it, with no warnings on it. I think there should be a warning on apps. I think there should be a warning on devices that let people know what the possible impact is mental health challenges.

That's the insidious part is that a certain amount is okay and good, but what you need to become sensitive to and what you need to teach your kids to is or not even teach them but limited before their all model is when does it turn And like the group text, when do they turn bad? Or you know, when does compare and despair make you feel so bad? How do you identify what gives you energy or what takes away energy? And I, like I said, and at the beginning of our conversation, what amplifies what amputates? That is the single greatest question of our age. And you need to build the tools and your kids need to build the tools to distinguish between the two. And that's our role. And the other thing that I'll say is that we are adaptable human beings, and I think it's important to learn how to struggle through something.

That's the insidious part is that a certain amount is okay and good, but what you need to become sensitive to and what you need to teach your kids to is or not even teach them but limited before their all model is when does it turn And like the group text, when do they turn bad? Or you know, when does compare and despair make you feel so bad? How do you identify what gives you energy or what takes away energy? And I, like I said, and at the beginning of our conversation, what amplifies what amputates? That is the single greatest question of our age. And you need to build the tools and your kids need to build the tools to distinguish between the two. And that's our role. And the other thing that I'll say is that we are adaptable human beings, and I think it's important to learn how to struggle through something.

I completely agree with you. We have done something in our home which is at twelve o'clock the Wi Fi gets unplugged. You cannot do any workarounds. And the kids' SIM cards whilst they're at home are out. They don't need a SIM card if they go out in the world and they go whatever.

I completely agree with you. We have done something in our home which is at twelve o'clock the Wi Fi gets unplugged. You cannot do any workarounds. And the kids' SIM cards whilst they're at home are out. They don't need a SIM card if they go out in the world and they go whatever.

This is brilliant. A second, so at midnight.

This is brilliant. A second, so at midnight.

At midnight, yeah, I have my own WiFi in the garage so that I can do my work if I need to early in the morning or late at night, but pretty much the WiFi is gone midnight until nine am.

At midnight, yeah, I have my own WiFi in the garage so that I can do my work if I need to early in the morning or late at night, but pretty much the WiFi is gone midnight until nine am.

Tobay freak out when you started.

Tobay freak out when you started.

That, Yes, it was quite extreme the response. And I'm gonna tell you that the response was at times in the beginning so extreme that it scared me, and I thought we're doing the right thing. Not a day too soon. But I will tell you it, you know, really got me thinking about screen addiction and what was happening to my kids' brains. And that's why I'm also so interested in this subject matter because I know that every other home around the world with kids is also asking so many of these questions. Okay, so if you don't have your kids buy in right, then you have to be able to tolerate a possibly explosive behavior. I've been verbally assaulted, I've had things thrown at me. There's been a lot of freakouts around not having the internet, So you have to be able to tolerate that, and at times I can't tolerate it. And I just think the internet has become a babysitter for people. So many people are stressed and overwhelmed and anxious, and if the parents have their own issues and they can't tolerate and or manage, you know, kids that are acting out. The Internet is a great place to park your kids when you don't want to deal with them, or you feel overwhelmed and you can't. But as I say to my kids, I would not drop you in the middle of Times Square by yourself, with all those people with I have no idea what's going on, and be like, bye, guys, hope you do okay out here by yourselves. Dropping your kid in the Internet and leaving them unmonitored at a certain age without any support, any guidance, any dialogue is close to dumping them in Times Square by themselves. And here's the other thing I want to talk about. The average age of googling free porn is nine years old. So what I've been saying to friends of mine who have younger kids, I'm like, listen, if you're leaving your kid alone with an iPad, your kid is eight years old, I really hope you're having a conversation with them about porn. And parents think I'm extreme. If you don't talk to your kid about porn, the Internet will, and it's going to start teaching your kid that this is what sex is. You don't want that. And the way I describe it is, I'm like the same way as there's action movies and rom coms and horror movies. This poem, it's pretend sex. It is not real sex. It is actors who are paid in order to reenact generally a guy's idea of what kind of sex is interesting to them, and it's not real. It's make believe.

That, Yes, it was quite extreme the response. And I'm gonna tell you that the response was at times in the beginning so extreme that it scared me, and I thought we're doing the right thing. Not a day too soon. But I will tell you it, you know, really got me thinking about screen addiction and what was happening to my kids' brains. And that's why I'm also so interested in this subject matter because I know that every other home around the world with kids is also asking so many of these questions. Okay, so if you don't have your kids buy in right, then you have to be able to tolerate a possibly explosive behavior. I've been verbally assaulted, I've had things thrown at me. There's been a lot of freakouts around not having the internet, So you have to be able to tolerate that, and at times I can't tolerate it. And I just think the internet has become a babysitter for people. So many people are stressed and overwhelmed and anxious, and if the parents have their own issues and they can't tolerate and or manage, you know, kids that are acting out. The Internet is a great place to park your kids when you don't want to deal with them, or you feel overwhelmed and you can't. But as I say to my kids, I would not drop you in the middle of Times Square by yourself, with all those people with I have no idea what's going on, and be like, bye, guys, hope you do okay out here by yourselves. Dropping your kid in the Internet and leaving them unmonitored at a certain age without any support, any guidance, any dialogue is close to dumping them in Times Square by themselves. And here's the other thing I want to talk about. The average age of googling free porn is nine years old. So what I've been saying to friends of mine who have younger kids, I'm like, listen, if you're leaving your kid alone with an iPad, your kid is eight years old, I really hope you're having a conversation with them about porn. And parents think I'm extreme. If you don't talk to your kid about porn, the Internet will, and it's going to start teaching your kid that this is what sex is. You don't want that. And the way I describe it is, I'm like the same way as there's action movies and rom coms and horror movies. This poem, it's pretend sex. It is not real sex. It is actors who are paid in order to reenact generally a guy's idea of what kind of sex is interesting to them, and it's not real. It's make believe.

I love you to describe that, because I was just having this conversation with my friend Tanya, who wrote this amazing book called Assume Nothing Nothing. Yeah, but it's about intimate violence and igotten a violence which is very common, and intimate violence being there start slapping, they're hitting, their spitting, their whatever. And where do they learn that? Well, so much of that is from a young age if they're watching porn, and like you said, it's of from the man's fantasy perspective. It's not what women want or it's not what a lot of women want, and that's what porn is teaching the men. And so if we're worried about sexual assault and sexual violence, we're feeding it and we're creating it. And you're right, you asksolutely need to have a conversation about it, and it's real and it's happening, and it is the equivalent of just dropping them off. I mean, I tried to put some filters on and I put too many and that she couldn't get to anything, and then we took them off, and now I tried to get back. But listen, both of us grew up half of our lives offline and half online, and we actually do need to deal with it. And it's not fun and it's messy and it's confusing. And actually I was going to ask you, is your husband are you guys on the same There's a lot of women will read my book and go, oh my god, I want to do this, but my husband I could never get And I'm like, well, hand him the book because there's a lot of science and research in there, and some men will only respond to that. Some men will respond.

I love you to describe that, because I was just having this conversation with my friend Tanya, who wrote this amazing book called Assume Nothing Nothing. Yeah, but it's about intimate violence and igotten a violence which is very common, and intimate violence being there start slapping, they're hitting, their spitting, their whatever. And where do they learn that? Well, so much of that is from a young age if they're watching porn, and like you said, it's of from the man's fantasy perspective. It's not what women want or it's not what a lot of women want, and that's what porn is teaching the men. And so if we're worried about sexual assault and sexual violence, we're feeding it and we're creating it. And you're right, you asksolutely need to have a conversation about it, and it's real and it's happening, and it is the equivalent of just dropping them off. I mean, I tried to put some filters on and I put too many and that she couldn't get to anything, and then we took them off, and now I tried to get back. But listen, both of us grew up half of our lives offline and half online, and we actually do need to deal with it. And it's not fun and it's messy and it's confusing. And actually I was going to ask you, is your husband are you guys on the same There's a lot of women will read my book and go, oh my god, I want to do this, but my husband I could never get And I'm like, well, hand him the book because there's a lot of science and research in there, and some men will only respond to that. Some men will respond.

To my husband is not Weirdly, my husband is you know, eight years younger than me. He grew up on the internet. He's not on social media. He doesn't even know how to post. He does not like social media. He is not online. He's not into it. But his aunt's a to pretty much everything, any issue that's going on in the home is you know what I think? And I'm like, yeah, turn the Internet off. He's like, yep. He is convinced that a lot of the issues that we deal with within our relationship and making time for each other and being present the kids and the lack of exercise or the over or under the imbalances, right, He's like, turn the internet off. If there's no internet, they're gonna have to think of something else to do. And his concept is, again, like you said, boredom inspires creativity. When you're so goddamn bored, you just start connecting dots in a way that you don't usually do because you're so bored, and you come up with stuff. And he maintains that and so his answer to pretty much everything is unplug the internet.