Hello, and welcome to series one of series six of The Conversation with Me Amanda Decademy, and what an episode we're starting with. I spoke with the fantastically Surrenner the day before her historic Cosmopolitan magazine cover came out. This is the first time in the history of Cosmo Magazine that they have ever had a woman of age sixty on their cover. We spoke about what that experience is like. We spoke about aging. We spoke about grieving in public, about how her life has opened up in beautiful and surprising ways since she left the show that she was on for eight years, The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. We also spoke about the commitment and work it takes to be in a long term marriage, and raising daughters in public, cancel, culture, sex, a bunch of good stuff. This was such a fun conversation and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Hi, Lisa, Hi, Amanda, Good morning you. Oh, I'm good. I'm good. How are you doing good? I'm good? How's your morning?

Hello, and welcome to series one of series six of The Conversation with Me Amanda Decademy, and what an episode we're starting with. I spoke with the fantastically Surrenner the day before her historic Cosmopolitan magazine cover came out. This is the first time in the history of Cosmo Magazine that they have ever had a woman of age sixty on their cover. We spoke about what that experience is like. We spoke about aging. We spoke about grieving in public, about how her life has opened up in beautiful and surprising ways since she left the show that she was on for eight years, The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. We also spoke about the commitment and work it takes to be in a long term marriage, and raising daughters in public, cancel, culture, sex, a bunch of good stuff. This was such a fun conversation and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Hi, Lisa, Hi, Amanda, Good morning you. Oh, I'm good. I'm good. How are you doing good? I'm good? How's your morning?

Ben? Notice in calm? Really, Actually it's been nice.

Ben? Notice in calm? Really, Actually it's been nice.

Would It's nice to see you. I wish it was in person, but we're doing it on Zoo. It's all right.

Would It's nice to see you. I wish it was in person, but we're doing it on Zoo. It's all right.

You know, I haven't done a podcast in god, probably five years.

You know, I haven't done a podcast in god, probably five years.

Is that? What is that? Is there a reason why?

Is that? What is that? Is there a reason why?

Yeah, I while I was on the show, anytime I would do a podcast, it was just like throwing acid, you know, on the situation, and it would become you know, clickbait and anything I said, because you know, for an hour to talk to somebody for an hour, you get a lot.

Yeah, I while I was on the show, anytime I would do a podcast, it was just like throwing acid, you know, on the situation, and it would become you know, clickbait and anything I said, because you know, for an hour to talk to somebody for an hour, you get a lot.

And it was just.

And it was just.

The worst possible thing. And yeah, I hated it, and I just said I'm not doing them, and I stopped doing them and took the first first one I've done in a really, really really long term.

The worst possible thing. And yeah, I hated it, and I just said I'm not doing them, and I stopped doing them and took the first first one I've done in a really, really really long term.

Well, thank you. I really appreciate it.

Well, thank you. I really appreciate it.

Well, I think you know, obviously we've had some great conversations over you know, Instagram we have over the past year, and you know, you made me feel safe enough to give it another try.

Well, I think you know, obviously we've had some great conversations over you know, Instagram we have over the past year, and you know, you made me feel safe enough to give it another try.

Thank you. Well, thank you for trusting me. You're welcome. So as you, as you mentioned, our interaction has been really around both of us navigating Greece and the death of your mother and my father, and that was the place in which we connected. So I really wanted to start with talking about that because during the period of time that my dad was done buying, I really really saw people in a whole different way, people that I knew, people that I didn't know. I had shared some of that with you at the time that it had been very sad for me that people that I was close to had distanced themselves and didn't really know how to deal with what I was experiencing. And then there were people like you who were kind and supportive and compassionate and who reached out to me and said, I see that you're really struggling, and can I share some of my experience with you and how can I support you? And you were one of those people. So I want to thank you first of all for peaching out because it meant a lot to me, and there were moments where I really was struggling and it was very reassuring to hear from someone who also had similar experiences.

Thank you. Well, thank you for trusting me. You're welcome. So as you, as you mentioned, our interaction has been really around both of us navigating Greece and the death of your mother and my father, and that was the place in which we connected. So I really wanted to start with talking about that because during the period of time that my dad was done buying, I really really saw people in a whole different way, people that I knew, people that I didn't know. I had shared some of that with you at the time that it had been very sad for me that people that I was close to had distanced themselves and didn't really know how to deal with what I was experiencing. And then there were people like you who were kind and supportive and compassionate and who reached out to me and said, I see that you're really struggling, and can I share some of my experience with you and how can I support you? And you were one of those people. So I want to thank you first of all for peaching out because it meant a lot to me, and there were moments where I really was struggling and it was very reassuring to hear from someone who also had similar experiences.

Well, I was moved to you know, you reach out to people when you feel moved to do so, and you know, it was such a raw year for.

Well, I was moved to you know, you reach out to people when you feel moved to do so, and you know, it was such a raw year for.

Me, and in doing in going through.

Me, and in doing in going through.

It in the public eye in a public way, was more brutal than I could have ever imagined. And I think that that pain and vulnerability that I felt just made me reach out to anyone that I had any connection to that had been going through it, just as a lifeline in some way, because unless you've gone through it, you.

It in the public eye in a public way, was more brutal than I could have ever imagined. And I think that that pain and vulnerability that I felt just made me reach out to anyone that I had any connection to that had been going through it, just as a lifeline in some way, because unless you've gone through it, you.

Don't understand it. You really really don't. Yeah, you cannot know. And I think, as you said that extra layer of grieving publicly, which you did, I would love for you to talk a little bit about what that experience was like for you. You know, you never expect grief.

Don't understand it. You really really don't. Yeah, you cannot know. And I think, as you said that extra layer of grieving publicly, which you did, I would love for you to talk a little bit about what that experience was like for you. You know, you never expect grief.

You don't know how to go through it because we're really not taught anything. Again, just like parenting where we're just talking about raising teenagers, you're just.

You don't know how to go through it because we're really not taught anything. Again, just like parenting where we're just talking about raising teenagers, you're just.

That taught it.

That taught it.

But something you go through as your help as a teenager. You see, you know, my grandparents had passed away. I saw my mother and father grieve in their own way, but not really.

But something you go through as your help as a teenager. You see, you know, my grandparents had passed away. I saw my mother and father grieve in their own way, but not really.

I had nothing to really compare it to.

I had nothing to really compare it to.

When I had met my husband, he had already lost both of his parents, so he had already gone through that experience. So I was really on my own and then to go through it as I'm filming this show. That is is not the safest environment to begin with, right there's other say you know and listen, I'm not here to say that. I'm not here to judge it.

When I had met my husband, he had already lost both of his parents, so he had already gone through that experience. So I was really on my own and then to go through it as I'm filming this show. That is is not the safest environment to begin with, right there's other say you know and listen, I'm not here to say that. I'm not here to judge it.

It is what it is.

It is what it is.

I signed up to do it, I did it, and I happened to lose my mother.

I signed up to do it, I did it, and I happened to lose my mother.

At the time.

At the time.

And I think I've thought about it a long time. I had a lot of therapy. I reached right out to a therapist during the time. But what I have really gathered is people don't want to see you going through grief because it's way too deep. It's way too uncomfortable for them to experience, because it brings up their own mortality, mortality and what they've gone through if they've had loss. And so what I noticed was the whole fan base and the whole group of women that I was working with mostly turned against me and pushed me away because it was just too painful. It wasn't about me, it was about I was showing them the pain of grief and it's just too much and it's not what you want to tune into. You want to see the Beverly Hills ladies being ridiculous fighting whatever.

And I think I've thought about it a long time. I had a lot of therapy. I reached right out to a therapist during the time. But what I have really gathered is people don't want to see you going through grief because it's way too deep. It's way too uncomfortable for them to experience, because it brings up their own mortality, mortality and what they've gone through if they've had loss. And so what I noticed was the whole fan base and the whole group of women that I was working with mostly turned against me and pushed me away because it was just too painful. It wasn't about me, it was about I was showing them the pain of grief and it's just too much and it's not what you want to tune into. You want to see the Beverly Hills ladies being ridiculous fighting whatever.

You do not want to be reminded of your pain and your grief period. I do not want to be reminded that the only inevitabilities that we're all going to die, right, Yeah, you just know.

You do not want to be reminded of your pain and your grief period. I do not want to be reminded that the only inevitabilities that we're all going to die, right, Yeah, you just know.

And so what I've found was they got really mad about it, they being the fan base, and they didn't know why. I don't think they understood why. They all of a sudden hated me, couldn't stand me, wanted me off the show. Listen, I've been a very controversial character on that show for eight years. I can honestly tell you, I don't think I did anything different this past year or the year I ended the show that I'd done any time before.

And so what I've found was they got really mad about it, they being the fan base, and they didn't know why. I don't think they understood why. They all of a sudden hated me, couldn't stand me, wanted me off the show. Listen, I've been a very controversial character on that show for eight years. I can honestly tell you, I don't think I did anything different this past year or the year I ended the show that I'd done any time before.

It's probably the least controversial you've been navigating grief. That's as real, that's as real and grounded as you can get.

It's probably the least controversial you've been navigating grief. That's as real, that's as real and grounded as you can get.

I mean, I just think you're right about that. But it pushed a button in everybody, and they really were fucking pissed off about it. They were so mad.

I mean, I just think you're right about that. But it pushed a button in everybody, and they really were fucking pissed off about it. They were so mad.

So what did that look like? How did that manifest?

So what did that look like? How did that manifest?

It manifested in a great deal of social media hatred, like bullying, like bullying, like death threats.

It manifested in a great deal of social media hatred, like bullying, like bullying, like death threats.

Oh wow, like really intense like that I'd ever seen. Listen.

Oh wow, like really intense like that I'd ever seen. Listen.

Again, I've been very controversial. I have pushed that boundary further than most people have pushed it on that show.

Again, I've been very controversial. I have pushed that boundary further than most people have pushed it on that show.

I've done my job. I did my job really well.

I've done my job. I did my job really well.

I could not figure out why they turned so greatly during that time, and I can only come up with it was too painful for them to see it and feel it, and they were like, you need to go.

I could not figure out why they turned so greatly during that time, and I can only come up with it was too painful for them to see it and feel it, and they were like, you need to go.

That's too much.

That's too much.

And so I got this barrage of hate and vitrol that I'd never seen before. And I've seen a great deal of it, but this was another level. And I also think it's you know, where we are in society and what's going on in the world. It was like this perfect storm of hatred. You held up amera, I did, and that's what our show does.

And so I got this barrage of hate and vitrol that I'd never seen before. And I've seen a great deal of it, but this was another level. And I also think it's you know, where we are in society and what's going on in the world. It was like this perfect storm of hatred. You held up amera, I did, and that's what our show does.

Anyway.

Anyway.

I think all these shows hold up a mirror, but I really held up a mirror and said, this is really what's going on. It's not cute. I'm really fucking mad. As we talked about the rage of it all, which I never ye I never expect that.

I think all these shows hold up a mirror, but I really held up a mirror and said, this is really what's going on. It's not cute. I'm really fucking mad. As we talked about the rage of it all, which I never ye I never expect that.

And I raged over there on everyone and nobody really understood it.

And I raged over there on everyone and nobody really understood it.

Nobody meaning the cast members, never really went.

Nobody meaning the cast members, never really went.

Okay, wait a second, Reda's really fucking losing it here.

Okay, wait a second, Reda's really fucking losing it here.

Even when you saw me really fucking lose it. It was that I was attacking them and they just didn't know what to do with it, and they didn't know how to handle it.

Even when you saw me really fucking lose it. It was that I was attacking them and they just didn't know what to do with it, and they didn't know how to handle it.

It's almost like a psychologist needed to prep the other people about what you were going through and how to best support you, because I liken death to It's like a room in your house that you always know is that, but you've never gone into it before, and suddenly the door is open and you're in the room and you're like, WHOA, this is a new world. How do I navigate this space? And all of us who deal with this, you know, aren't most of us on experience, but sadly the people around us. And it sounds like that that the crew of ladies that was around you could have done with some insight and education about how to support someone who's grieving. Yeah, it just it's something that.

It's almost like a psychologist needed to prep the other people about what you were going through and how to best support you, because I liken death to It's like a room in your house that you always know is that, but you've never gone into it before, and suddenly the door is open and you're in the room and you're like, WHOA, this is a new world. How do I navigate this space? And all of us who deal with this, you know, aren't most of us on experience, but sadly the people around us. And it sounds like that that the crew of ladies that was around you could have done with some insight and education about how to support someone who's grieving. Yeah, it just it's something that.

Was it too much, and it's too bad that we weren't able to have the conversations during that time that I think we needed to have.

Was it too much, and it's too bad that we weren't able to have the conversations during that time that I think we needed to have.

Well, you wanted to. I remember you saying to me, I don't know if I'm going to talk about this, but I want to talk about these things because this is what's going on with me. And I think the invitation to have a conversation about death is so invaluable, especially on a platform that reaches so many people who are all going to be dealing with it. Every single one of those viewers will have to deal with this moment. It's the only inevitability. We're born and then we die. It's how you know, we have life, but the only inevitability is that we're going to die. So let it help educate people.

Well, you wanted to. I remember you saying to me, I don't know if I'm going to talk about this, but I want to talk about these things because this is what's going on with me. And I think the invitation to have a conversation about death is so invaluable, especially on a platform that reaches so many people who are all going to be dealing with it. Every single one of those viewers will have to deal with this moment. It's the only inevitability. We're born and then we die. It's how you know, we have life, but the only inevitability is that we're going to die. So let it help educate people.

And I will say that there were plenty of people that reached out and said, you helped me so much, and flights are the same thing, and I had no idea there was going to be so much rage. So there was a great deal of connection to the people that really saw it because there were a lot of people who saw it.

And I will say that there were plenty of people that reached out and said, you helped me so much, and flights are the same thing, and I had no idea there was going to be so much rage. So there was a great deal of connection to the people that really saw it because there were a lot of people who saw it.

And needed it at that time. And what was the experience like for you, separate from how you were, how it was for you at work, what was the experience like for you with your mother's passing.

And needed it at that time. And what was the experience like for you, separate from how you were, how it was for you at work, what was the experience like for you with your mother's passing.

Well, it was just the most horrific time, you know, of my life. It was the absolute worst year obviously, just the worst year of my life. But you know, my father died about eight years ago now, and that was hard, but this rocked my world in a way that you know, obviously I'm.

Well, it was just the most horrific time, you know, of my life. It was the absolute worst year obviously, just the worst year of my life. But you know, my father died about eight years ago now, and that was hard, but this rocked my world in a way that you know, obviously I'm.

Still dealing with it. I am too, Yeah, you know, we're still dealing with it.

Still dealing with it. I am too, Yeah, you know, we're still dealing with it.

Yeah. Luckily I've had this past year to really sit in it and really be in the moment with it, because when you're busying yourself and all the distractions that we do so that we don't have to. I mean, I didn't try not to grieve, and I think it's just a natural, a natural thing that we do.

Yeah. Luckily I've had this past year to really sit in it and really be in the moment with it, because when you're busying yourself and all the distractions that we do so that we don't have to. I mean, I didn't try not to grieve, and I think it's just a natural, a natural thing that we do.

We just nobody wants to feel that kind of pain all the time. It's intense, isn't it. I mean, I like you when I talk about last year. For me, it was the first year in my life that I gave myself permission to not work constantly. In fact, I sort of took a year off. I did, I did my series, I did the Conversation, but I gave myself that year to really come apart if that's what I needed to do. That's so healthy. I knew that if I didn't stay current with it and I stuffed it down, that it would come back to you know, take me out again, of course, And and I too, like you, last year it fracked the death of my father fractured me. Yes, right, And it's a slow coming putting yourself back together with this very different perspective on everything.

We just nobody wants to feel that kind of pain all the time. It's intense, isn't it. I mean, I like you when I talk about last year. For me, it was the first year in my life that I gave myself permission to not work constantly. In fact, I sort of took a year off. I did, I did my series, I did the Conversation, but I gave myself that year to really come apart if that's what I needed to do. That's so healthy. I knew that if I didn't stay current with it and I stuffed it down, that it would come back to you know, take me out again, of course, And and I too, like you, last year it fracked the death of my father fractured me. Yes, right, And it's a slow coming putting yourself back together with this very different perspective on everything.

Very very different, beautifully said, because you become a different person, you're never never the same, no ever the same again and in a great way. Also, like they exchanged me and opened me up in a way that made me, I think, bring things into my life that I never.

Very very different, beautifully said, because you become a different person, you're never never the same, no ever the same again and in a great way. Also, like they exchanged me and opened me up in a way that made me, I think, bring things into my life that I never.

Would have until that happened. What are some of those things that you brought in?

Would have until that happened. What are some of those things that you brought in?

Well, I think you know, I needed to leave the show, and it forced me to leave the show. Knew that that was no longer going to serve me in anyway, and I had to go. And I don't think if my mom hadn't passed, I would have left. I would have stayed there, because it becomes comfortable, It becomes, of course, Dave, if it becomes.

Well, I think you know, I needed to leave the show, and it forced me to leave the show. Knew that that was no longer going to serve me in anyway, and I had to go. And I don't think if my mom hadn't passed, I would have left. I would have stayed there, because it becomes comfortable, It becomes, of course, Dave, if it becomes.

What you know.

What you know.

So that's the first thing. You know, leaving a job that you've had for eight years is scary. Scary, you know, whether it's good or bad or whatever it is, it's very scary.

So that's the first thing. You know, leaving a job that you've had for eight years is scary. Scary, you know, whether it's good or bad or whatever it is, it's very scary.

But I knew I had.

But I knew I had.

To in order to, like you said, take the year, whether I worked or not, to really experience and feel these feelings.

To in order to, like you said, take the year, whether I worked or not, to really experience and feel these feelings.

Yeah what it looks like. Yeah, same, So I went at it like that. And then it was not.

Yeah what it looks like. Yeah, same, So I went at it like that. And then it was not.

Three weeks after I had left the show that I got a call from my publicist who said, how would you like to go to Paris in four days? And I thought, I would love to go to Paris in four days. It was to go to a fashion show Afrikenso and they were going to fly me and my publicist put us up and I thought, yes, I'm just going to start saying yes to whatever comes.

Three weeks after I had left the show that I got a call from my publicist who said, how would you like to go to Paris in four days? And I thought, I would love to go to Paris in four days. It was to go to a fashion show Afrikenso and they were going to fly me and my publicist put us up and I thought, yes, I'm just going to start saying yes to whatever comes.

That's what I'm doing. I am doing it too. I'm saying yes to think that I that come forward. Yes. It's like you create the space and you allow whatever comes in. I just I describe it as following the threads. Oh oh there's a thread. Oh there's a thread. Let me just follow this thread.

That's what I'm doing. I am doing it too. I'm saying yes to think that I that come forward. Yes. It's like you create the space and you allow whatever comes in. I just I describe it as following the threads. Oh oh there's a thread. Oh there's a thread. Let me just follow this thread.

Well that's exactly what I did last year, and it was brilliant. I have to say I didn't manifest it. I didn't plan it. I put nothing out there when it was like, okay, I want to do fashion now and I want to go to the shows, and I went like nothing zero. All I did was say yes, and then I just kept saying yes and following the threads, which is beautiful.

Well that's exactly what I did last year, and it was brilliant. I have to say I didn't manifest it. I didn't plan it. I put nothing out there when it was like, okay, I want to do fashion now and I want to go to the shows, and I went like nothing zero. All I did was say yes, and then I just kept saying yes and following the threads, which is beautiful.

Oh I love that. And what has that opened up inside you? Ugh, well, a freedom, I think you know, my body just.

Oh I love that. And what has that opened up inside you? Ugh, well, a freedom, I think you know, my body just.

Went ugh, it opened up, not only because you know, I have thought so hard in a sense to like get to where I am in this business, in this this work life, yes, not in life itself, in this you know, figuring out my psychosis and just everything sure, just to get where we are right now. I fought hard, and I hustled hard, and you know, really worked hard. And I think this is the first time in my life where I let myself be for the first time, and in letting myself be, other things were able to present themselves to me that were much more than I'd ever even drugged of.

Went ugh, it opened up, not only because you know, I have thought so hard in a sense to like get to where I am in this business, in this this work life, yes, not in life itself, in this you know, figuring out my psychosis and just everything sure, just to get where we are right now. I fought hard, and I hustled hard, and you know, really worked hard. And I think this is the first time in my life where I let myself be for the first time, and in letting myself be, other things were able to present themselves to me that were much more than I'd ever even drugged of.

So it's been a very positive thing. And I've just followed the threads and it has led me to some of the greatest things that I could have never imagined doing in my life. It's incredible, isn't it. I Mean, we've had very parallel experiences, it sounds like, and you know, I sort of have come to the point of thinking that the potting gift that my dad gave me was myself.

So it's been a very positive thing. And I've just followed the threads and it has led me to some of the greatest things that I could have never imagined doing in my life. It's incredible, isn't it. I Mean, we've had very parallel experiences, it sounds like, and you know, I sort of have come to the point of thinking that the potting gift that my dad gave me was myself.

Same same as the same. How about that?

Same same as the same. How about that?

Right?

Right?

Yes?

Yes?

And like, oh did that happen?

And like, oh did that happen?

It?

It?

Yeah? Yeah, I've been thinking about it as well, and I've come to the conclusion that in his death it cracked me open in a way that I had never been cracked open before quite like this before, to the point where it was like almost everything burnt down to the ground and what was left was my marriage, my relationship with my kids, a bunch of friends got burnt down, same you know, aspects of my career got burnt down. And it was like, oh, it was like the phoenix coming up from the embers again. And you know, the looking at what's left. I'm still kind of sifting through and going, oh, that there, hot. Do I want to nutch of that? Or do we leave that in the dust? You know, like I'm really assessing and kind of beginning to recalibrate myself in this new form. And I don't really it's not fully formed yet, as you said, it's it's it's ongoing, you know. But the gift in that is that every single thing that I do, every person in my life, my relationships, everything I put my hair into with my work is so authentic to me. It fits me today. I could not say it better. I could not say it better than you just said. It.

Yeah? Yeah, I've been thinking about it as well, and I've come to the conclusion that in his death it cracked me open in a way that I had never been cracked open before quite like this before, to the point where it was like almost everything burnt down to the ground and what was left was my marriage, my relationship with my kids, a bunch of friends got burnt down, same you know, aspects of my career got burnt down. And it was like, oh, it was like the phoenix coming up from the embers again. And you know, the looking at what's left. I'm still kind of sifting through and going, oh, that there, hot. Do I want to nutch of that? Or do we leave that in the dust? You know, like I'm really assessing and kind of beginning to recalibrate myself in this new form. And I don't really it's not fully formed yet, as you said, it's it's it's ongoing, you know. But the gift in that is that every single thing that I do, every person in my life, my relationships, everything I put my hair into with my work is so authentic to me. It fits me today. I could not say it better. I could not say it better than you just said. It.

It is one hundred percent the same for me. I mean when you, I think, when you when you make a decision out of a great loss like that, because for me, leaving the show was the biggest part of that, Like leaving huge loss.

It is one hundred percent the same for me. I mean when you, I think, when you when you make a decision out of a great loss like that, because for me, leaving the show was the biggest part of that, Like leaving huge loss.

Absolutely, you're grieving so much. You're grieving the lost your identity. Who am I without being identified as being that woman on that show? I am no longer her daughter. It's these things that are identifying markers that were that are either we're walking away from or yes, we're leaving, we're stepping away from that and saying who am I without that? We're terrifying. It's terrifying, and it's really big, and it's also.

Absolutely, you're grieving so much. You're grieving the lost your identity. Who am I without being identified as being that woman on that show? I am no longer her daughter. It's these things that are identifying markers that were that are either we're walking away from or yes, we're leaving, we're stepping away from that and saying who am I without that? We're terrifying. It's terrifying, and it's really big, and it's also.

Really really exciting, yes for me on some levels, because I left a very powerful, strong world that really identified me during that time, not necessarily who I really am, but that put an identity on me that the world looked at and judged in a certain way, which is what they do in that world. And I understand that, but I didn't necessarily like it because it wasn't my authentic self. It's not who I am completely. And so I think when you have a great loss like losing a parent, it shakes you into Okay, you can't be false anymore. You cannot live a lie.

Really really exciting, yes for me on some levels, because I left a very powerful, strong world that really identified me during that time, not necessarily who I really am, but that put an identity on me that the world looked at and judged in a certain way, which is what they do in that world. And I understand that, but I didn't necessarily like it because it wasn't my authentic self. It's not who I am completely. And so I think when you have a great loss like losing a parent, it shakes you into Okay, you can't be false anymore. You cannot live a lie.

You can't.

You can't.

You have to fucking figure it out. And if you're going to continue to live a lie, you will be miserable. And it just seems that there's no time left for that. If that makes sense, it makes complete sense every the value of time, because I know for me my dad's death, there was no denying that we have a finite amount of time here. And you also, I mean, let's you turn sixty. I turned fifty one. It's mid life.

You have to fucking figure it out. And if you're going to continue to live a lie, you will be miserable. And it just seems that there's no time left for that. If that makes sense, it makes complete sense every the value of time, because I know for me my dad's death, there was no denying that we have a finite amount of time here. And you also, I mean, let's you turn sixty. I turned fifty one. It's mid life.

It is the reality that we have however long we have left here, and what do we want to do with that time? And that's what it also put into focus for me, which is, oh, I need to be really intentional in a whole other way because this there's an end date to this, and I don't know when it is, but I think we're actually right on track for being women who are in the middle phase of our lives.

It is the reality that we have however long we have left here, and what do we want to do with that time? And that's what it also put into focus for me, which is, oh, I need to be really intentional in a whole other way because this there's an end date to this, and I don't know when it is, but I think we're actually right on track for being women who are in the middle phase of our lives.

Yes, And and the mortality, your mortality just goes like this. It just you know, you have to take a look at it, and you have to, you know, turning sixties also, it's it's quite a turning point in life, because then you're you're going into your third chapter however you want to look at it, and you never imagine yourself there. You always look to your parents and people in your lives and you think, well, they're old or they're you know, at that point, and then all of a sudden, you're at that point, and so it's you.

Yes, And and the mortality, your mortality just goes like this. It just you know, you have to take a look at it, and you have to, you know, turning sixties also, it's it's quite a turning point in life, because then you're you're going into your third chapter however you want to look at it, and you never imagine yourself there. You always look to your parents and people in your lives and you think, well, they're old or they're you know, at that point, and then all of a sudden, you're at that point, and so it's you.

You're the oldest, You're the oldest. Yeah, I'm the oldest.

You're the oldest, You're the oldest. Yeah, I'm the oldest.

Yeah, I'm an empty nester now the kids are gone. Like it's so freaky on so many levels, but it also makes you go, okay, but let's let's turn this page in a way that's not the same. I don't want to be a six year old woman that just goes Okay, you know what, I've done it, there's not much more I can do, and they and you just go away.

Yeah, I'm an empty nester now the kids are gone. Like it's so freaky on so many levels, but it also makes you go, okay, but let's let's turn this page in a way that's not the same. I don't want to be a six year old woman that just goes Okay, you know what, I've done it, there's not much more I can do, and they and you just go away.

I'm not going to go away. I'm not going.

I'm not going to go away. I'm not going.

To stop being authentic whatever that looks like.

To stop being authentic whatever that looks like.

I have years to go while I What I fear is that you've experienced an invitation to deepen living your authentic selves. That's what I hear you being committed to doing.

I have years to go while I What I fear is that you've experienced an invitation to deepen living your authentic selves. That's what I hear you being committed to doing.

Absolutely and and you don't necessarily think that that's going to happen at this point right, you know what I mean, because again, in our society, you're on the you're on the you're on the end.

Absolutely and and you don't necessarily think that that's going to happen at this point right, you know what I mean, because again, in our society, you're on the you're on the you're on the end.

You're not in the middle. You're in the middle to the end. You're not you know, you're not in the beginning, You're now over here. Well, I think it's also an interesting opportunity to redefine what it means to be a woman who is sixty who is entering her sad chapter, because there are not many examples of women who you know, who go into that phase, who are doing it differently, and I know that you are. I want to talk about the Cosmo cover. It's called Sex Off to Sixty. First of all, I love that you are a woman who is sixty who's on the cover of Cosmo, which typically has a very young demo. I think that was a big deal, right, A big deal. He had huge, really huge, And that you're talking about your age, you're celebrating your physical body, you're celebrating your perspective. And I read the article. I thought it was fantastic. Yeah, I really really did. I want to touch on some of the things that you talked about, one of them being menopause and that our hormones change and that means that our libido change is and it's supposed to because we're not ovulating and trying to get pregnant and having this huge full to have sex, and it becomes less fart and center, and it's supposed to for a reason. That's right, That's that's why we go through menopause.

You're not in the middle. You're in the middle to the end. You're not you know, you're not in the beginning, You're now over here. Well, I think it's also an interesting opportunity to redefine what it means to be a woman who is sixty who is entering her sad chapter, because there are not many examples of women who you know, who go into that phase, who are doing it differently, and I know that you are. I want to talk about the Cosmo cover. It's called Sex Off to Sixty. First of all, I love that you are a woman who is sixty who's on the cover of Cosmo, which typically has a very young demo. I think that was a big deal, right, A big deal. He had huge, really huge, And that you're talking about your age, you're celebrating your physical body, you're celebrating your perspective. And I read the article. I thought it was fantastic. Yeah, I really really did. I want to touch on some of the things that you talked about, one of them being menopause and that our hormones change and that means that our libido change is and it's supposed to because we're not ovulating and trying to get pregnant and having this huge full to have sex, and it becomes less fart and center, and it's supposed to for a reason. That's right, That's that's why we go through menopause.

Right.

Right.

But as a woman who has been centered, I know, for me, my desirability has been a big aspect of who I am, and so coming into this new phase that I'm in, i am I'm navigating the world as a woman who isn't using my sensuality as the only thing that's interesting about me, right, And that's an adjustment personally interesting.

But as a woman who has been centered, I know, for me, my desirability has been a big aspect of who I am, and so coming into this new phase that I'm in, i am I'm navigating the world as a woman who isn't using my sensuality as the only thing that's interesting about me, right, And that's an adjustment personally interesting.

Yes, I mean I think that in our business, when you're in the public eye like we are, I mean, it's about sex cells, sex south.

Yes, I mean I think that in our business, when you're in the public eye like we are, I mean, it's about sex cells, sex south.

It's the number one commodity in the world. It just is.

It's the number one commodity in the world. It just is.

It just is, period, end of story. That's it is. So how do you go from that? Because this is what that's the facts. Yes, that's the facts that so we've chosen. So how do you continue to go through your life and ebb and flow in a way that you don't have to have that front and center it can still be there, you can still pull it up when you want, but it's not the driving force.

It just is, period, end of story. That's it is. So how do you go from that? Because this is what that's the facts. Yes, that's the facts that so we've chosen. So how do you continue to go through your life and ebb and flow in a way that you don't have to have that front and center it can still be there, you can still pull it up when you want, but it's not the driving force.

Yes, yes, So how are you navigating that? I'm just doing it. I'm just literally again saying yes to what presents it presents itself in this time, in the present moment. I am sixty years old.

Yes, yes, So how are you navigating that? I'm just doing it. I'm just literally again saying yes to what presents it presents itself in this time, in the present moment. I am sixty years old.

I am a woman who is sixty. Now do I look like I'm sixty? Probably not, you know, and nor do I want to? Yeah, that's my choice, and however you want to do that, more power to you. Yes, I want to do my way. I love expressing myself. I love to find ways and new ways or old ways.

I am a woman who is sixty. Now do I look like I'm sixty? Probably not, you know, and nor do I want to? Yeah, that's my choice, and however you want to do that, more power to you. Yes, I want to do my way. I love expressing myself. I love to find ways and new ways or old ways.

However, I want you to express myself. And I think it's about that.

However, I want you to express myself. And I think it's about that.

I don't think it's about I want to be the most beautiful woman in the room or the most sexual woman in the room. No, I want to be my most authentic self in the room, whatever that means.

I don't think it's about I want to be the most beautiful woman in the room or the most sexual woman in the room. No, I want to be my most authentic self in the room, whatever that means.

Yes, I completely agree with you. I have been writing a book called A Guide to Your Authentic Self, which you know I'm definitely gonna want to include you in because I'm interviewing women who live authentically. I think it's really important to have role models and have women out in the world who are living authentically because it's not easy. It's much it's easier said than done with the barriers that exist. That's right. You have to be willing to face adversity. You have to be willing to not be liked. It's true. You have to let go of what people think about you. Yes, in service of living chiutsuy. That's right, and that is what's difficult about it.

Yes, I completely agree with you. I have been writing a book called A Guide to Your Authentic Self, which you know I'm definitely gonna want to include you in because I'm interviewing women who live authentically. I think it's really important to have role models and have women out in the world who are living authentically because it's not easy. It's much it's easier said than done with the barriers that exist. That's right. You have to be willing to face adversity. You have to be willing to not be liked. It's true. You have to let go of what people think about you. Yes, in service of living chiutsuy. That's right, and that is what's difficult about it.

And I do it, and I continue to do it, and I think I also continue to do it as a as a way so my children can see that you don't have to live in fear. They look at me and go, Okay, my mom, she takes a hit, she'll take a bunch because I know that's who she is.

And I do it, and I continue to do it, and I think I also continue to do it as a as a way so my children can see that you don't have to live in fear. They look at me and go, Okay, my mom, she takes a hit, she'll take a bunch because I know that's who she is.

Now. They know, I mean, they know who I am. They watch, they see.

Now. They know, I mean, they know who I am. They watch, they see.

I don't think it's a bad thing to show your girls, especially that you can be whoever you want to be.

I don't think it's a bad thing to show your girls, especially that you can be whoever you want to be.

And that's whatever it is. If you want to.

And that's whatever it is. If you want to.

Show your body, shure your body, if you want to express your way in a safe way. Now I'm not talking about anything that can bring danger to you. But if people are going to call you, you know, call you names, come after you, whatever, that's okay.

Show your body, shure your body, if you want to express your way in a safe way. Now I'm not talking about anything that can bring danger to you. But if people are going to call you, you know, call you names, come after you, whatever, that's okay.

But you also have to have the ability to be resilient and what you're talking about with some of the experiences you've had with you know, public attacking and bullying, that also requires a certain amount of kind of thick skin because it's hurtful. I don't know that I could handle that. I did have that as a teenager living in the UK, and it was really damaging to me because I was so young, I hadn't yet kind of refined who I was, and in its words and perspectives, that really wounded me so many it was years of therapy to heal. Really, so I think as young women, it's it's really even harder to go up against these barriers because it's the pushback is painful.

But you also have to have the ability to be resilient and what you're talking about with some of the experiences you've had with you know, public attacking and bullying, that also requires a certain amount of kind of thick skin because it's hurtful. I don't know that I could handle that. I did have that as a teenager living in the UK, and it was really damaging to me because I was so young, I hadn't yet kind of refined who I was, and in its words and perspectives, that really wounded me so many it was years of therapy to heal. Really, so I think as young women, it's it's really even harder to go up against these barriers because it's the pushback is painful.

It's it's really painful, but I continue to do it. It's so interesting. Yeah, why some of the most you know, horrific stuff come at me because I don't want them to win.

It's it's really painful, but I continue to do it. It's so interesting. Yeah, why some of the most you know, horrific stuff come at me because I don't want them to win.

I don't.

I don't.

I don't want them to stop me. It's not their job to stop me. I'll stop myself in however I want to, but it's not their job.

I don't want them to stop me. It's not their job to stop me. I'll stop myself in however I want to, but it's not their job.

I won't.

I won't.

I've done things where I have been let go of jobs because I've called out you know, major people there. There's things that I've done that have hurt me financially, and I wouldn't change it for a second second.

I've done things where I have been let go of jobs because I've called out you know, major people there. There's things that I've done that have hurt me financially, and I wouldn't change it for a second second.

I wouldn't change it because I have that, I'm able to have my I don't even know the word.

I wouldn't change it because I have that, I'm able to have my I don't even know the word.

It's like I can sleep really well at night because I don't worry about, you know, changing myself to please people.

It's like I can sleep really well at night because I don't worry about, you know, changing myself to please people.

What a gift? What a gift?

What a gift? What a gift?

Well, a gift, I mean it's it's it's like a double edged sword though it really double edsh So.

Well, a gift, I mean it's it's it's like a double edged sword though it really double edsh So.

I know I have the same thing, the same thing.

I know I have the same thing, the same thing.

Okay, so you understand at the end of the day, I can put my head on my pillow and sleep at night. And yes, there are things that I've done that I have apologized for and I don't feel good about.

Okay, so you understand at the end of the day, I can put my head on my pillow and sleep at night. And yes, there are things that I've done that I have apologized for and I don't feel good about.

Well, you're human. Human beings make bad choices at times. It doesn't mean they're a bad person. They just make a bad choice.

Well, you're human. Human beings make bad choices at times. It doesn't mean they're a bad person. They just make a bad choice.

Yes, And I think we've all done that, and I don't think we're allowing anybody to do that right now. And that's a big part of the problem. That you cannot fall down and you cannot fuck up.

Yes, And I think we've all done that, and I don't think we're allowing anybody to do that right now. And that's a big part of the problem. That you cannot fall down and you cannot fuck up.

You can't well it's unfortunately that is if you look at the nature of how we learn. We learn by falling down, Yes, I know, and there is no space to do that, and so how can people learn. It's actually paralyzing people where they're not taking risks and they're not and therefore they're not growing and learning and expanding because of the cost of making the wrong choice, which as a young person is a never many many, many many times is too high. It's too high to them, I know.

You can't well it's unfortunately that is if you look at the nature of how we learn. We learn by falling down, Yes, I know, and there is no space to do that, and so how can people learn. It's actually paralyzing people where they're not taking risks and they're not and therefore they're not growing and learning and expanding because of the cost of making the wrong choice, which as a young person is a never many many, many many times is too high. It's too high to them, I know.

And I worry about all the children, all the teenagers, to all the young people right now growing up in this world of cancelation. Yes, it's terrifying to me. You know, obviously I get myself right.

And I worry about all the children, all the teenagers, to all the young people right now growing up in this world of cancelation. Yes, it's terrifying to me. You know, obviously I get myself right.

To the line.

To the line.

Many times I have and haven't been completely canceled. But I know what the feeling is, and it's terrifying for these kids, and that makes me sad again. You know, as a parent, you try to help your children and you want to fix things for them, but we know that that's detrimental to them.

Many times I have and haven't been completely canceled. But I know what the feeling is, and it's terrifying for these kids, and that makes me sad again. You know, as a parent, you try to help your children and you want to fix things for them, but we know that that's detrimental to them.

Yes, that we have to let them fall and we have to let them fail, right, yes, we do.

Yes, that we have to let them fall and we have to let them fail, right, yes, we do.

So somehow we have to bring that back to society because I really think it's stunting everyone right now.

So somehow we have to bring that back to society because I really think it's stunting everyone right now.

I agree, and actually, you know, gen Z is the generation that is having the least sex because I think they are very confused and they're afraid of saying not saying the right thing, or doing the wrong thing. And now you've got kids who are unsure about how to even approach somebody they're attracted to because they're afraid that they're going to get pulled, you know, and assaulta which sounds extreme, but this is actually what's going on in their heads. I've spoken to many, many kids about it, and that's worrying. That's worrying. It is.

I agree, and actually, you know, gen Z is the generation that is having the least sex because I think they are very confused and they're afraid of saying not saying the right thing, or doing the wrong thing. And now you've got kids who are unsure about how to even approach somebody they're attracted to because they're afraid that they're going to get pulled, you know, and assaulta which sounds extreme, but this is actually what's going on in their heads. I've spoken to many, many kids about it, and that's worrying. That's worrying. It is.

It is worrying because how do you express yourself?

It is worrying because how do you express yourself?

How do you share is you're afraid of being judged, of doing the wrong.

How do you share is you're afraid of being judged, of doing the wrong.

Thing, being canceled, being you know, all of it, like, how do you how are you your authentic self?

Thing, being canceled, being you know, all of it, like, how do you how are you your authentic self?

If you're a bred, you cannot be and that you have. That's why people find other people who are similar to them through mostly the Internet, and that's where you have kind of marginalized communities who are separated from one another because they don't know how to interact with people who have different political opinions or who have different perspectives on gender. Maybe they're polarized or whatever it is, it's very there's more isolation than connection today and that's what I'm observing, and it worries me having I've got my kids are seventeen, and I think, how are they going to have relationships? How are they going to make friends? Like? How does this work today? Yeah? I have the same questions. I don't know. We'll see, we're in process and you know, we'll see how this plays out. Right, How do you raise daughters in this culture? How have you kind of communicated with them about how they can navigate? You're a strong woman as well, and you're powerful, you're beautiful, you're smart, you're insightful. My kids have told me that's a lot to have a mom like that. Yes, there's upsides and downsides, right.

If you're a bred, you cannot be and that you have. That's why people find other people who are similar to them through mostly the Internet, and that's where you have kind of marginalized communities who are separated from one another because they don't know how to interact with people who have different political opinions or who have different perspectives on gender. Maybe they're polarized or whatever it is, it's very there's more isolation than connection today and that's what I'm observing, and it worries me having I've got my kids are seventeen, and I think, how are they going to have relationships? How are they going to make friends? Like? How does this work today? Yeah? I have the same questions. I don't know. We'll see, we're in process and you know, we'll see how this plays out. Right, How do you raise daughters in this culture? How have you kind of communicated with them about how they can navigate? You're a strong woman as well, and you're powerful, you're beautiful, you're smart, you're insightful. My kids have told me that's a lot to have a mom like that. Yes, there's upsides and downsides, right.

Yes, I think so. I mean I think of that a lot. It is what it is, though, you know, it is what it is. And I think that you know, Harry and I have tried to just lead by example. I mean, what else can you do talking to them, having an open door of communication, of being honest about how you're really feeling, giving them space to come to you and talk to you is really important and you hope that they will. I think Harry and I are staying together has been truly amazing for them up in Los Angeles.

Yes, I think so. I mean I think of that a lot. It is what it is, though, you know, it is what it is. And I think that you know, Harry and I have tried to just lead by example. I mean, what else can you do talking to them, having an open door of communication, of being honest about how you're really feeling, giving them space to come to you and talk to you is really important and you hope that they will. I think Harry and I are staying together has been truly amazing for them up in Los Angeles.

Yeah.

Yeah.

World, I think that's probably one of the most positive things that we were able to give them is we stay together.

World, I think that's probably one of the most positive things that we were able to give them is we stay together.

Well, you all together for twenty six years, right, twenty seven Yeah, okay, so I'm in my twenty fourth year with mine. Maybe we have the longest marriages in hollege right up there, We're right up there. Along with raising kids, being married for this length of time is the other thing that has taken the most commitment and the most amount of work on well satis. Of course, they don't just happen. You don't just stay together there, No, it's a choice and it takes work.

Well, you all together for twenty six years, right, twenty seven Yeah, okay, so I'm in my twenty fourth year with mine. Maybe we have the longest marriages in hollege right up there, We're right up there. Along with raising kids, being married for this length of time is the other thing that has taken the most commitment and the most amount of work on well satis. Of course, they don't just happen. You don't just stay together there, No, it's a choice and it takes work.

And I think that the girls having this safe place because it is a safe place, and most of their friends growing up, no one stayed together. No one's parents stayed together. Everyone was a divorce. So I think that that has a lot to do with it. I mean, obviously, listen, I am, I am a strong presence. I'm also I think somebody that they can feel like because they've seen what I've done, they can come to me and say, okay, what about this, or I think you're crazy here or I feel this they they're it would come to me, I think because I'm so out there in a sense.

And I think that the girls having this safe place because it is a safe place, and most of their friends growing up, no one stayed together. No one's parents stayed together. Everyone was a divorce. So I think that that has a lot to do with it. I mean, obviously, listen, I am, I am a strong presence. I'm also I think somebody that they can feel like because they've seen what I've done, they can come to me and say, okay, what about this, or I think you're crazy here or I feel this they they're it would come to me, I think because I'm so out there in a sense.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Have has that been saying over the years, and I'm sure that I have that You're either one of your daughters has come to you and said, this aspect of who you are is really problematic for me. No, really, I know you'd think so right. Wow, No, I don't mean. I don't mean I think all mothers all mothers. I mean I'm just surprised.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Have has that been saying over the years, and I'm sure that I have that You're either one of your daughters has come to you and said, this aspect of who you are is really problematic for me. No, really, I know you'd think so right. Wow, No, I don't mean. I don't mean I think all mothers all mothers. I mean I'm just surprised.

I mean, you know, obviously you have moments of you know, I need you to be a bit more understanding here, or I need you to hear me, but not in a sense of you know, this part of you is too much for me. I handled like, you know, because most people come to me about, oh my god, your kids must be so horrified by you dancing like a silly thing like dancing on Instagram. And they'll go to the kids and they'll say, you know, you must be so embarrassed by your mother. And then of course I listened to see you know what they say, they're not embarrassed.

I mean, you know, obviously you have moments of you know, I need you to be a bit more understanding here, or I need you to hear me, but not in a sense of you know, this part of you is too much for me. I handled like, you know, because most people come to me about, oh my god, your kids must be so horrified by you dancing like a silly thing like dancing on Instagram. And they'll go to the kids and they'll say, you know, you must be so embarrassed by your mother. And then of course I listened to see you know what they say, they're not embarrassed.

No, that your daughters that's a celebration of you. Yeah, they're like, but that's my mom.

No, that your daughters that's a celebration of you. Yeah, they're like, but that's my mom.

You know, that's who she is, whether she's doing it on Instagram or in the half kitchen kitchen.

You know, that's who she is, whether she's doing it on Instagram or in the half kitchen kitchen.

So I don't think.

So I don't think.

It was anything like, oh my god, it's so embarrassing. I think they see how much joy it gave me to do it during the time. You know, it came during pandemic when we were locked up, and I think they see what I do as pure joy is what I I do. They see me having a good time doing it, So it's not like, oh my god, it's so embarrassing and horrifyed. I mean, of course they get a good chuckle out of it. Or if there's something that I have done that they don't like, and we'll do this on both sides.

It was anything like, oh my god, it's so embarrassing. I think they see how much joy it gave me to do it during the time. You know, it came during pandemic when we were locked up, and I think they see what I do as pure joy is what I I do. They see me having a good time doing it, So it's not like, oh my god, it's so embarrassing and horrifyed. I mean, of course they get a good chuckle out of it. Or if there's something that I have done that they don't like, and we'll do this on both sides.

They'll be like, you got to take that down, right, but we can't post.

They'll be like, you got to take that down, right, but we can't post.

That, And I'll do the same to them, like we have each other's back when you need to. But otherwise, let people celebrate, and let your kids celebrate, and I guess let your mom celebrate too.

That, And I'll do the same to them, like we have each other's back when you need to. But otherwise, let people celebrate, and let your kids celebrate, and I guess let your mom celebrate too.

Will your kids on the show at all? Oh yeah, oh, they were not a whole lot.

Will your kids on the show at all? Oh yeah, oh, they were not a whole lot.

But from the time they were thirteen, and I think I started the show when they were like twelve and fifteen.

But from the time they were thirteen, and I think I started the show when they were like twelve and fifteen.

Imagine that. Yeah, really formative years. How do you think being on the show and being exposed to the public at those formative years has imprinted on them?

Imagine that. Yeah, really formative years. How do you think being on the show and being exposed to the public at those formative years has imprinted on them?

Well, I mean probably we've sucked them up, you know, beyond you know, just being just being parents.

Well, I mean probably we've sucked them up, you know, beyond you know, just being just being parents.

I mean I always saying that parents, all parents fucked their kids up. I'm sorry, Oh, that's just the way it goes. Yeah, everybody does. Everyone does. No one doesn't. No one doesn't.

I mean I always saying that parents, all parents fucked their kids up. I'm sorry, Oh, that's just the way it goes. Yeah, everybody does. Everyone does. No one doesn't. No one doesn't.

So it's like what level, Yeah, your kids up.

So it's like what level, Yeah, your kids up.

They are surviving, they're successful.

They are surviving, they're successful.

No one's gone to jail, no one's overdose. I mean I can laugh at it, but at the end of the day, I think they've turned out to be beautifully grounded, loving, find human beings.

No one's gone to jail, no one's overdose. I mean I can laugh at it, but at the end of the day, I think they've turned out to be beautifully grounded, loving, find human beings.

You can do that. That's a success. Success. So that's the way I look at it.

You can do that. That's a success. Success. So that's the way I look at it.

After growing up in Beverly Hills, because that's where they lived, being on the show, having your parents in the public eye, it's all they knew. Yeah, yeah, it's not like, oh my god, my family and oh my god, this show.

After growing up in Beverly Hills, because that's where they lived, being on the show, having your parents in the public eye, it's all they knew. Yeah, yeah, it's not like, oh my god, my family and oh my god, this show.

They were aware of everything, but it's their life. It's what they grew up in.

They were aware of everything, but it's their life. It's what they grew up in.

So it's not anything like, oh, my god, this just fucked me up more than.

So it's not anything like, oh, my god, this just fucked me up more than.

You know, Jane down Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, in a weird way. It's also prepared them to have their own careers. Your daughter, Amelia is has become a really successful model, which is really hard to do, very very hard to do. So she's obviously learned work ethic, She's obviously learned how to show up, be professional, do her job. And being a kid who grew up on you know, with the life she's had, it wrecked her to be able to not get sideswiped by her own career. I think so.

You know, Jane down Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, in a weird way. It's also prepared them to have their own careers. Your daughter, Amelia is has become a really successful model, which is really hard to do, very very hard to do. So she's obviously learned work ethic, She's obviously learned how to show up, be professional, do her job. And being a kid who grew up on you know, with the life she's had, it wrecked her to be able to not get sideswiped by her own career. I think so.

And we taught them kindness, you know, we taught them that that's the most important thing, because it really is. It is being nice to say that. Yeah.

And we taught them kindness, you know, we taught them that that's the most important thing, because it really is. It is being nice to say that. Yeah.

Absolutely, So. I want to go back and talk a bit about long term marriage because, as I said, jokingly, maybe we have some of the longest marriages in Hollywood. I found it interesting that the woman who interviewed you in your Cosmo story was asking you about whether you have less sex in your marriage, and I felt like you addressed that in a really beautiful, healthy way. She basically said to you in a polite way, like does your husband have a problem getting a boat? I was like, oh my god, let's but I know, I couldn't believe it that I read that. Yeah, I was a little taken aback by that. Even I was a bit like, whoa, Okay, you handled it really beautifully.

Absolutely, So. I want to go back and talk a bit about long term marriage because, as I said, jokingly, maybe we have some of the longest marriages in Hollywood. I found it interesting that the woman who interviewed you in your Cosmo story was asking you about whether you have less sex in your marriage, and I felt like you addressed that in a really beautiful, healthy way. She basically said to you in a polite way, like does your husband have a problem getting a boat? I was like, oh my god, let's but I know, I couldn't believe it that I read that. Yeah, I was a little taken aback by that. Even I was a bit like, whoa, Okay, you handled it really beautifully.

I mean, if he did have an issue, then we'd have another conversation.

I mean, if he did have an issue, then we'd have another conversation.

But luckily he doesn't and he.

But luckily he doesn't and he.

Hasn't, so that's not part knows the conversation.

Hasn't, so that's not part knows the conversation.

But it's real interesting. You know, she's seventy three, which I looked her up because I was like, who is this woman?

But it's real interesting. You know, she's seventy three, which I looked her up because I was like, who is this woman?

I it's fascint I mean, I was actually excited to talk to her because number one, we're talking about sex after sixty and all that, And I thought, how interesting to have a woman who's actually, you know, thirteen years older.

I it's fascint I mean, I was actually excited to talk to her because number one, we're talking about sex after sixty and all that, And I thought, how interesting to have a woman who's actually, you know, thirteen years older.

Than I am. Yes' for this and I really appreciated that. Yeah, and a woman.

Than I am. Yes' for this and I really appreciated that. Yeah, and a woman.

That's not on hormones and didn't go down the same road that I did. I thought it was a fascinating way to have this conversation.

That's not on hormones and didn't go down the same road that I did. I thought it was a fascinating way to have this conversation.

Well, I think there's immense value in multi generational storytelling. Yeah, And as we know, unfortunately in our industry, when women hit kind of thirty five, forty, they're considered less viable, less envirable, less interesting, when actually that's the age we're really beginning to come into our own. I love that a woman who was older than you was interviewing you, but I was also fascinated by the questions. The questions were great.

Well, I think there's immense value in multi generational storytelling. Yeah, And as we know, unfortunately in our industry, when women hit kind of thirty five, forty, they're considered less viable, less envirable, less interesting, when actually that's the age we're really beginning to come into our own. I love that a woman who was older than you was interviewing you, but I was also fascinated by the questions. The questions were great.

I mean I went in just as open as I could possibly be, because, first of all, for Cosmon to do this is such a big deal.

I mean I went in just as open as I could possibly be, because, first of all, for Cosmon to do this is such a big deal.

I mean, this magazine is not about sixty year olds now.

I mean, this magazine is not about sixty year olds now.

It is not boement fact that they took this moment, because it's a moment.

It is not boement fact that they took this moment, because it's a moment.