Nature has always soothed us, inspired us and reminded us who's boss. And the truth is, it's smarter than us too. Throughout history, humankind has sought to master control and divert the power of the natural world, and its elements, to meet their own needs. But as the natural world responds to the damaging impacts of carbon emissions through climate change and global warming, it's time we listened to what it has to say about making things right. I'm Max La Manna and welcome to The Clean Energy Revolution from National Grid. In the search to regain the balance between a thriving planet and thriving human lives, we're finally leaning into natural processes to reverse the harmful impacts of carbon and methane emissions on our environments. So how is nature there to lend a helping hand to us in this mission? From windmills to watermills of olden times, nature's always been able to lend a little science and magic to help our world go round. This time, I'm going to be finding out how the energy systems of today and the future can incorporate natural processes to make a cleaner and greener future for all of us. Today, I'll be hearing examples of how farmers in the US are turning crops into fossil- free fuel. We'll find out how our future infrastructure could connect towns, cities, land and sea in the big carbon capture picture. And to kick us off, our guest reporter and oceanographer, Helen Czerski is taking us on a trip to the beach.

Nature has always soothed us, inspired us and reminded us who's boss. And the truth is, it's smarter than us too. Throughout history, humankind has sought to master control and divert the power of the natural world, and its elements, to meet their own needs. But as the natural world responds to the damaging impacts of carbon emissions through climate change and global warming, it's time we listened to what it has to say about making things right. I'm Max La Manna and welcome to The Clean Energy Revolution from National Grid. In the search to regain the balance between a thriving planet and thriving human lives, we're finally leaning into natural processes to reverse the harmful impacts of carbon and methane emissions on our environments. So how is nature there to lend a helping hand to us in this mission? From windmills to watermills of olden times, nature's always been able to lend a little science and magic to help our world go round. This time, I'm going to be finding out how the energy systems of today and the future can incorporate natural processes to make a cleaner and greener future for all of us. Today, I'll be hearing examples of how farmers in the US are turning crops into fossil- free fuel. We'll find out how our future infrastructure could connect towns, cities, land and sea in the big carbon capture picture. And to kick us off, our guest reporter and oceanographer, Helen Czerski is taking us on a trip to the beach.

It's a beautiful sunny day and I am at the beach, but I'm at a very special beach because this is right next to the University of Portsmouth's Institute of Marine Science. And we're here because it's time to talk about the ocean. If aliens ever arrived at Earth, the first thing they would see is the blue of our blue planet. It is the dominant feature of Earth, and yet when we talk about the environment, we often forget that the ocean is a very large part of it, but maybe it's time for that to change. So as coastal energy infrastructure develops, those are opportunities, they're helping us develop renewable energy. From the wind and the tide, we need this to build a more sustainable world, but we also need to build those things well, and to do it with the health of ecosystems and the whole ocean in mind. We can't just continue to treat the ocean as though it's a blank space. So where do we start?

It's a beautiful sunny day and I am at the beach, but I'm at a very special beach because this is right next to the University of Portsmouth's Institute of Marine Science. And we're here because it's time to talk about the ocean. If aliens ever arrived at Earth, the first thing they would see is the blue of our blue planet. It is the dominant feature of Earth, and yet when we talk about the environment, we often forget that the ocean is a very large part of it, but maybe it's time for that to change. So as coastal energy infrastructure develops, those are opportunities, they're helping us develop renewable energy. From the wind and the tide, we need this to build a more sustainable world, but we also need to build those things well, and to do it with the health of ecosystems and the whole ocean in mind. We can't just continue to treat the ocean as though it's a blank space. So where do we start?

Hi Helen, my name is Dr. Ian Hendy, I am a tropical marine ecologist. We are standing outside of the Institute of Marine Sciences at the University of Portsmouth, on a small peninsula of land overlooking the Solent and Langstone Harbor.

Hi Helen, my name is Dr. Ian Hendy, I am a tropical marine ecologist. We are standing outside of the Institute of Marine Sciences at the University of Portsmouth, on a small peninsula of land overlooking the Solent and Langstone Harbor.

And it is a beautiful sunny day, and we've got the water lapping at our feet, so it's a very good place to do an interview about the ocean. So you've got a big kelp restoration project on the go. Tell us a little bit about that.

And it is a beautiful sunny day, and we've got the water lapping at our feet, so it's a very good place to do an interview about the ocean. So you've got a big kelp restoration project on the go. Tell us a little bit about that.

Myself and other colleagues, we're working on a very large collaborative project called the Sussex Kelp Restoration Project that covers 300 square kilometers, spanning from Chichester all the way to Brighton.

Myself and other colleagues, we're working on a very large collaborative project called the Sussex Kelp Restoration Project that covers 300 square kilometers, spanning from Chichester all the way to Brighton.

Just to make sure everyone's on board. What is kelp? How much of it is there around naturally and why does it need restoring?

Just to make sure everyone's on board. What is kelp? How much of it is there around naturally and why does it need restoring?

So kelp, in basic terms, is a very large seaweed. So it grows in a rocky environment, and what it's doing is creating habitat for many important fisheries, commercial fisheries, but it's also drawing down greenhouse gases into its tissues.

So kelp, in basic terms, is a very large seaweed. So it grows in a rocky environment, and what it's doing is creating habitat for many important fisheries, commercial fisheries, but it's also drawing down greenhouse gases into its tissues.

What's the history here?

What's the history here?

So we're going back to the early eighties, where we had huge area of kelp forests that spanned, in actual fact, 170 square kilometers. We believe that it was instigated by the storm of '87, the hurricane storm, that basically ate into the dense kelp forests. And with damaging activities or extractive activities, such as commercial fishing, dredging, mining, all of those things, slowly ate away the outside edges to where we are now, which is at 4% of the original surface area of coverage of kelp forest now.

So we're going back to the early eighties, where we had huge area of kelp forests that spanned, in actual fact, 170 square kilometers. We believe that it was instigated by the storm of '87, the hurricane storm, that basically ate into the dense kelp forests. And with damaging activities or extractive activities, such as commercial fishing, dredging, mining, all of those things, slowly ate away the outside edges to where we are now, which is at 4% of the original surface area of coverage of kelp forest now.

So that's the equivalent of cutting down quite a large forest, and the idea is to bring it back?

So that's the equivalent of cutting down quite a large forest, and the idea is to bring it back?

The idea is to bring it back, and we're already seeing recovery, in actual fact, a year into the project. In a healthy kelp forest, you could find anything raging from lobsters, brown crabs, cuttlefish, also bass, so commercially important fish species like bass, bream and also cod, very important fish species. The ecosystem services of a healthy kelp forest has been actually valued, whether that's through its CO2 drawdown, so the carbon dioxide drawdown to its fixed tissues, or it's through it's what we call the nursery function, and that's been valued at over £ 3 million per year to the local communities.

The idea is to bring it back, and we're already seeing recovery, in actual fact, a year into the project. In a healthy kelp forest, you could find anything raging from lobsters, brown crabs, cuttlefish, also bass, so commercially important fish species like bass, bream and also cod, very important fish species. The ecosystem services of a healthy kelp forest has been actually valued, whether that's through its CO2 drawdown, so the carbon dioxide drawdown to its fixed tissues, or it's through it's what we call the nursery function, and that's been valued at over £ 3 million per year to the local communities.

Well, it sounds like you've got big project ahead of you. Now, one of the things people talk about with a lot of ocean projects is carbon. We're starting to hear discussions about carbon budgets, and people are adding up, it's basically carbon accounting. Where is it going? What does it do? Obviously it's important because too much of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is causing global warming. Why does the ocean play into that discussion about carbon?

Well, it sounds like you've got big project ahead of you. Now, one of the things people talk about with a lot of ocean projects is carbon. We're starting to hear discussions about carbon budgets, and people are adding up, it's basically carbon accounting. Where is it going? What does it do? Obviously it's important because too much of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is causing global warming. Why does the ocean play into that discussion about carbon?

We think of the planet, 30% of it's land, 70% is ocean. By the year 2050, we're going to have 10 billion people on the planet. So looking forward to increasing what we call ecosystem services, on the land, it's going to be tricky. So looking to the oceans to support that I think is the natural next progression to do this. And pound for pound, if we think of, let's think of an area of land the size of a football pitch, most carbon- rich ecosystems, whether it's a terrestrial, tropical rainforest or marine environment, we now know the marine environments can store, in their soft sediments, two, three, even up to four times the amount of carbon than a terrestrial ecosystem will.

We think of the planet, 30% of it's land, 70% is ocean. By the year 2050, we're going to have 10 billion people on the planet. So looking forward to increasing what we call ecosystem services, on the land, it's going to be tricky. So looking to the oceans to support that I think is the natural next progression to do this. And pound for pound, if we think of, let's think of an area of land the size of a football pitch, most carbon- rich ecosystems, whether it's a terrestrial, tropical rainforest or marine environment, we now know the marine environments can store, in their soft sediments, two, three, even up to four times the amount of carbon than a terrestrial ecosystem will.

So I think it's a really interesting question because no one really thought about the ocean, apart from ocean scientists, for a long time. And now, suddenly everyone's thinking about the ocean, which is great. But it seems that what people want to do is dump things in it again, it's just a different kind of thing. The ocean is a complex system. Say we grow some extra kelp, what do we know about what happens to the carbon that is taken up by that kelp?

So I think it's a really interesting question because no one really thought about the ocean, apart from ocean scientists, for a long time. And now, suddenly everyone's thinking about the ocean, which is great. But it seems that what people want to do is dump things in it again, it's just a different kind of thing. The ocean is a complex system. Say we grow some extra kelp, what do we know about what happens to the carbon that is taken up by that kelp?

In terms of ocean carbon cycles, particularly in the coastal environments, it's still an emerging science, and we still know very little and we're still scratching our heads over it. So in my other research areas, I focus on mangrove forest and sea grass beds and salt marsh. We're digging into the carbon cycles there. But kelp forest, particularly, is a tricky one because the ecology is completely different to a seagrass habitat or salt marsh habitat, where they grow on mud. A kelp forest will grow in a rocky environment. So what it does is draw down carbon effectively into its tissues, but it doesn't create a carbon store, it stores it elsewhere.

In terms of ocean carbon cycles, particularly in the coastal environments, it's still an emerging science, and we still know very little and we're still scratching our heads over it. So in my other research areas, I focus on mangrove forest and sea grass beds and salt marsh. We're digging into the carbon cycles there. But kelp forest, particularly, is a tricky one because the ecology is completely different to a seagrass habitat or salt marsh habitat, where they grow on mud. A kelp forest will grow in a rocky environment. So what it does is draw down carbon effectively into its tissues, but it doesn't create a carbon store, it stores it elsewhere.

It's because the ocean is so good at recycling.

It's because the ocean is so good at recycling.

Yes.

Yes.

So if you create some extra kelp, nature's just going to recycle it and some of it might go somewhere else, but you have to check.

So if you create some extra kelp, nature's just going to recycle it and some of it might go somewhere else, but you have to check.

It's looking at your bank balance, if you will. And so what we're doing, particularly in the Sussex Kelp Restoration Project, we have several PhD students doing various different projects. One of those is looking at the fate of kelp- derived carbon. And we are looking at the drawdown of CO2 into the fixed tissues of the kelp in fixed carbon, and also eDNA, environmental eDNA, to look at where those kelp carbon stores are, either through the food chain, so the animals dependent upon the kelp themselves, and some of it will end up in the sediments. So we're looking at all of those pathways.

It's looking at your bank balance, if you will. And so what we're doing, particularly in the Sussex Kelp Restoration Project, we have several PhD students doing various different projects. One of those is looking at the fate of kelp- derived carbon. And we are looking at the drawdown of CO2 into the fixed tissues of the kelp in fixed carbon, and also eDNA, environmental eDNA, to look at where those kelp carbon stores are, either through the food chain, so the animals dependent upon the kelp themselves, and some of it will end up in the sediments. So we're looking at all of those pathways.

So the important point here, I guess, is that the Kelp Restoration Project is good for all kinds of reasons. It's good for the ecosystems, there's a richer mixture of species, there's all kinds of other good things that happen if you have a kelp ecosystem. So what would you like to see, as people start thinking about the ocean more and putting infrastructure in it? So coastal energy hubs, for example, wind farms are very helpful, they give us renewable energy. Tidal energy is very useful. So we're creeping into the sea, and as those projects are getting built, what do you think the considerations should be for the wider impacts?

So the important point here, I guess, is that the Kelp Restoration Project is good for all kinds of reasons. It's good for the ecosystems, there's a richer mixture of species, there's all kinds of other good things that happen if you have a kelp ecosystem. So what would you like to see, as people start thinking about the ocean more and putting infrastructure in it? So coastal energy hubs, for example, wind farms are very helpful, they give us renewable energy. Tidal energy is very useful. So we're creeping into the sea, and as those projects are getting built, what do you think the considerations should be for the wider impacts?

Put it this way, if we carry on at the same rate of loss, we'll have zero kelp forests left by the end of the century, we will have zero salt marshes by the end of the century if we carry on at the same rate of loss. All of these ecosystems will act as natural storm defenses, they stop coastal erosion, they provide fishery biomass for our commercial fisheries, they provide oxygen, all of these things. We need to think environmentally, we need to think ecologically and strategically where we place these energy hubs.

Put it this way, if we carry on at the same rate of loss, we'll have zero kelp forests left by the end of the century, we will have zero salt marshes by the end of the century if we carry on at the same rate of loss. All of these ecosystems will act as natural storm defenses, they stop coastal erosion, they provide fishery biomass for our commercial fisheries, they provide oxygen, all of these things. We need to think environmentally, we need to think ecologically and strategically where we place these energy hubs.

We don't have a choice, this isn't like an add- on. If you're going to build a bit of coastal infrastructure, it's not, " Oh well, we might do some ocean restoration if we feel like it afterwards." It's that it's got to be built in from the start. You've got to do that thinking, how are you going to design it? Where are you going to put it? Where is the minimum damage? That's got to go in from the start.

We don't have a choice, this isn't like an add- on. If you're going to build a bit of coastal infrastructure, it's not, " Oh well, we might do some ocean restoration if we feel like it afterwards." It's that it's got to be built in from the start. You've got to do that thinking, how are you going to design it? Where are you going to put it? Where is the minimum damage? That's got to go in from the start.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

But it feels as though there is an optimistic message here, which is that we do actually have the understanding. We need to understand more, but we have enough knowledge to know that we can do this better, and we have the foundation of the knowledge to know how to do it better. And now we just have to put the effort in, and actually see things like coastal energy hubs as an opportunity, that if we're going to put something in the marine environment, if we take the time to understand the ecosystem around it, we could actually make it better and it should be built in.

But it feels as though there is an optimistic message here, which is that we do actually have the understanding. We need to understand more, but we have enough knowledge to know that we can do this better, and we have the foundation of the knowledge to know how to do it better. And now we just have to put the effort in, and actually see things like coastal energy hubs as an opportunity, that if we're going to put something in the marine environment, if we take the time to understand the ecosystem around it, we could actually make it better and it should be built in.

100%. Yeah, completely agree. We've learned from our mistakes, we know where we've gone wrong, so we know we need to get not just one institution working on this, but a multi- collaborative approach with lots of experts dealing with this, working on this. So there's lots of input for a considered approach to restore those nature- based solutions and those ecosystem services back to thriving communities again.

100%. Yeah, completely agree. We've learned from our mistakes, we know where we've gone wrong, so we know we need to get not just one institution working on this, but a multi- collaborative approach with lots of experts dealing with this, working on this. So there's lots of input for a considered approach to restore those nature- based solutions and those ecosystem services back to thriving communities again.

Ian, thank you very much. It's been the pleasure to talk to you.

Ian, thank you very much. It's been the pleasure to talk to you.

My absolute pleasure.

My absolute pleasure.

Fascinating stuff. Thank you, Helen. Investing in the regeneration of environments is a big piece of the puzzle when we're building our clean energy future. So you might have heard of heavy emissions industries buying carbon credits. For example, airline companies funding forest regeneration programs to offset their carbon emissions. But integrating these schemes with our energy systems is another level of thinking about how all of our ecosystems and lives interact on that scale. After all, our natural world and our limited resources are what connects us all. It's not just about locking away carbon with the power of nature. Alternative fuels can provide renewable energy and less carbon- emitting ways of getting power to our homes, cars and businesses, and that's got to be a good feeling on your daily commute. Next, we're going to look at how biological processes can help us find alternatives to fossil fuels, so we can take carbon emissions out of energy production in the first place. Ever wondered where your household food waste goes when you take out your trash? Check this out.

Fascinating stuff. Thank you, Helen. Investing in the regeneration of environments is a big piece of the puzzle when we're building our clean energy future. So you might have heard of heavy emissions industries buying carbon credits. For example, airline companies funding forest regeneration programs to offset their carbon emissions. But integrating these schemes with our energy systems is another level of thinking about how all of our ecosystems and lives interact on that scale. After all, our natural world and our limited resources are what connects us all. It's not just about locking away carbon with the power of nature. Alternative fuels can provide renewable energy and less carbon- emitting ways of getting power to our homes, cars and businesses, and that's got to be a good feeling on your daily commute. Next, we're going to look at how biological processes can help us find alternatives to fossil fuels, so we can take carbon emissions out of energy production in the first place. Ever wondered where your household food waste goes when you take out your trash? Check this out.

My name's Lee Dobinson, and I'm the Chief Commercial Officer at BioteCH4. And we own and operate multiple anaerobic digestion sites across England. Right now, we're at Hemswell Biogas, just north of Lincoln on an old RAF airstrip. We take food waste that's being produced in a number of different ways, from a whole host of different avenues, and we put that through a system in which we remove the methane gas and we take that and we convert that into energy. As a country, we produce around 10 million tons of food waste, of which at the moment there's approximately 5 million tons that's accessible. So we'll take you on a tour of the site here. We're stood in front of a rather large pit that holds approximately 500 tons of food waste. Food waste comes into this facility at the rate of around about 300 tons a day. Over there, we have our tank farm. They're big green tanks with a stainless steel roof. The food waste is sent through each one of these tanks in turn. We have the hydrolyzation stage, before we have pasteurization, before we have digestion. The main byproduct of anaerobic digestion comes in the form of a fertilizer that we call digestate. That removes the local farming fraternities' reliance on artificial fertilizers. Both the prices of artificial fertilizers are high, but actually the bigger problem is the supply. So it's not so much how much it is, it's if they can get it. We provide a constant supply of really nutrient- rich, organic, if you like, fertilizer. So the land around us here is all set to arable farm and we spread on all of that. So what we can see here is the gas holder, which collects and regulates the flow of biogas, like a giant golf ball, that's the best way to explain it, and allows that gas to flow into the three turbocharges before it's injected into one of the three combined heat and power units. With those engines then, they turn an alternator, which then generates an electrical current, which sends electricity to the neighboring businesses. We power the industrial estate here in its entirety. Whatever power is oversupplied is then sent to the grid. Any biogas that we produce over and above what their CHPs require, we then send directly to the gas grid as well. If you imagine the contents of a supermarket, we will take the majority of that. So anything that you see on the shelves, you can imagine the wastage that you throw away at home, that type of food waste will come to us. But then also you have production wastes. We take that into our facilities and remove it away from both incineration or landfill. Once it gets to waste, this is the most environmentally friendly way of processing it. So the process itself here is carbon neutral. If the food waste was sent to landfill, which historically it always has been, and in many cases now still, still happens, then all of that methane is, in theory, able to go off into the atmosphere. Now, that methane is 25 times more harmful to the environment than CO2, and we capture all of that methane and convert it into energy. This site produces enough energy to power roughly 10,000 homes. We actually power the entire industrial estate in which we sit. We're at the entrance of our site now, and you can see, just off to our left, two great big fields that have just had the wheat cut from them, and they'll be shortly receiving the next dose of fertilizer from our plant, ready for the next crop.

My name's Lee Dobinson, and I'm the Chief Commercial Officer at BioteCH4. And we own and operate multiple anaerobic digestion sites across England. Right now, we're at Hemswell Biogas, just north of Lincoln on an old RAF airstrip. We take food waste that's being produced in a number of different ways, from a whole host of different avenues, and we put that through a system in which we remove the methane gas and we take that and we convert that into energy. As a country, we produce around 10 million tons of food waste, of which at the moment there's approximately 5 million tons that's accessible. So we'll take you on a tour of the site here. We're stood in front of a rather large pit that holds approximately 500 tons of food waste. Food waste comes into this facility at the rate of around about 300 tons a day. Over there, we have our tank farm. They're big green tanks with a stainless steel roof. The food waste is sent through each one of these tanks in turn. We have the hydrolyzation stage, before we have pasteurization, before we have digestion. The main byproduct of anaerobic digestion comes in the form of a fertilizer that we call digestate. That removes the local farming fraternities' reliance on artificial fertilizers. Both the prices of artificial fertilizers are high, but actually the bigger problem is the supply. So it's not so much how much it is, it's if they can get it. We provide a constant supply of really nutrient- rich, organic, if you like, fertilizer. So the land around us here is all set to arable farm and we spread on all of that. So what we can see here is the gas holder, which collects and regulates the flow of biogas, like a giant golf ball, that's the best way to explain it, and allows that gas to flow into the three turbocharges before it's injected into one of the three combined heat and power units. With those engines then, they turn an alternator, which then generates an electrical current, which sends electricity to the neighboring businesses. We power the industrial estate here in its entirety. Whatever power is oversupplied is then sent to the grid. Any biogas that we produce over and above what their CHPs require, we then send directly to the gas grid as well. If you imagine the contents of a supermarket, we will take the majority of that. So anything that you see on the shelves, you can imagine the wastage that you throw away at home, that type of food waste will come to us. But then also you have production wastes. We take that into our facilities and remove it away from both incineration or landfill. Once it gets to waste, this is the most environmentally friendly way of processing it. So the process itself here is carbon neutral. If the food waste was sent to landfill, which historically it always has been, and in many cases now still, still happens, then all of that methane is, in theory, able to go off into the atmosphere. Now, that methane is 25 times more harmful to the environment than CO2, and we capture all of that methane and convert it into energy. This site produces enough energy to power roughly 10,000 homes. We actually power the entire industrial estate in which we sit. We're at the entrance of our site now, and you can see, just off to our left, two great big fields that have just had the wheat cut from them, and they'll be shortly receiving the next dose of fertilizer from our plant, ready for the next crop.

Well, it looks like the UK is on their way to getting these schemes up and running. But meanwhile, the US is quite a bit further ahead in rolling out biofuel and biogas schemes in their fossil- free future. And that's why National Grid has made biogas a big part of the plan. So what does that mean for our monthly bills and, well, I've just got to ask, is it stinky? So biogas turns organic waste material into gas and digested material over a course of weeks. This gas can then be used in heating, electricity, vehicle fuel, and as a renewable natural gas source, amongst other fossil- free uses. In the United States right now, there are 2, 300 of these sites, which includes hundreds of farms, water facilities, and standalone systems. National Grid US have announced their plans for a fossil- free future. So how will renewable natural gas work in the mix, and be delivered to customers there? What are the obstacles and timelines for this? Here to answer all my questions and probably yours is Patrick Serfass, Executive Director of the American Biogas Council, and Monica Kabel, Manager of US Strategy at National Grid. Monica, the strategy team in the US have just announced their fossil- free vision, which has a strong focus on renewable natural gas, in the energy mix for the communities they supply. Can you tell me a little bit more about this?

Well, it looks like the UK is on their way to getting these schemes up and running. But meanwhile, the US is quite a bit further ahead in rolling out biofuel and biogas schemes in their fossil- free future. And that's why National Grid has made biogas a big part of the plan. So what does that mean for our monthly bills and, well, I've just got to ask, is it stinky? So biogas turns organic waste material into gas and digested material over a course of weeks. This gas can then be used in heating, electricity, vehicle fuel, and as a renewable natural gas source, amongst other fossil- free uses. In the United States right now, there are 2, 300 of these sites, which includes hundreds of farms, water facilities, and standalone systems. National Grid US have announced their plans for a fossil- free future. So how will renewable natural gas work in the mix, and be delivered to customers there? What are the obstacles and timelines for this? Here to answer all my questions and probably yours is Patrick Serfass, Executive Director of the American Biogas Council, and Monica Kabel, Manager of US Strategy at National Grid. Monica, the strategy team in the US have just announced their fossil- free vision, which has a strong focus on renewable natural gas, in the energy mix for the communities they supply. Can you tell me a little bit more about this?

Yeah, that's right. Renewable natural gas is one of the critical tools in our toolkit to help our customers and our states reach net zero by 2050. It is not the only tool though. We've got energy efficiency, electrification, green hydrogen, they all have really important roles to play as well. But renewable natural gas as an option for our customers allows us to meet customers where they are. We know that one size rarely fits all, and renewable natural gas gives our customers some optionality to pick the net- zero solution that works best for them.

Yeah, that's right. Renewable natural gas is one of the critical tools in our toolkit to help our customers and our states reach net zero by 2050. It is not the only tool though. We've got energy efficiency, electrification, green hydrogen, they all have really important roles to play as well. But renewable natural gas as an option for our customers allows us to meet customers where they are. We know that one size rarely fits all, and renewable natural gas gives our customers some optionality to pick the net- zero solution that works best for them.

Patrick, I have a question for you, and probably a question that everyone's probably wondering. What is biogas and what are the useful alternatives too, and how is it produced?

Patrick, I have a question for you, and probably a question that everyone's probably wondering. What is biogas and what are the useful alternatives too, and how is it produced?

Yeah. Well, biogas is one of those things that not a lot of people know about, but is all around us. It's what gets produced when you put a pile of garbage in the ground, it's what starts to get produced if you left out your hamburger meat on your counter just a little bit too long, and it starts to get a little bit of brown, that's the first step of anaerobic digestion starting to happen because in all the organic material that we have, think food waste and wastewater sludge, manure at farms, or even the wastewater sludge that we flush down the toilet, that's manure from people, there are all microbes in that material, even in the food that we eat. And if you create a nice, warm environment that's just about body temperature, those microbes will reproduce. We're creating a closed tank so that there's no oxygen. And when you do that, when you starve the microbes of oxygen and you create a nice warm environment, usually like a soup, those microbes reproduce and those microbes literally eat up the organic material and burp out methane, and methane is the prime constituent of natural gas. Most natural gas is 97 to 99% methane. But it's been renewably produced, it hasn't been extracted from the ground. And a biogas system just optimizes all of that.

Yeah. Well, biogas is one of those things that not a lot of people know about, but is all around us. It's what gets produced when you put a pile of garbage in the ground, it's what starts to get produced if you left out your hamburger meat on your counter just a little bit too long, and it starts to get a little bit of brown, that's the first step of anaerobic digestion starting to happen because in all the organic material that we have, think food waste and wastewater sludge, manure at farms, or even the wastewater sludge that we flush down the toilet, that's manure from people, there are all microbes in that material, even in the food that we eat. And if you create a nice, warm environment that's just about body temperature, those microbes will reproduce. We're creating a closed tank so that there's no oxygen. And when you do that, when you starve the microbes of oxygen and you create a nice warm environment, usually like a soup, those microbes reproduce and those microbes literally eat up the organic material and burp out methane, and methane is the prime constituent of natural gas. Most natural gas is 97 to 99% methane. But it's been renewably produced, it hasn't been extracted from the ground. And a biogas system just optimizes all of that.

Is it stinky?

Is it stinky?

The biogas itself is not stinky, it's the organic material that you (inaudible) .

The biogas itself is not stinky, it's the organic material that you (inaudible) .

Good, I'm glad we cleared that up, it's not stinky.

Good, I'm glad we cleared that up, it's not stinky.

Yeah, yeah. It's the organic material that you have to handle and just handling any, it's a dirty job and someone's got to deal with it. Why not deal with it in a way that you can recycle it, make renewable energy and fertilizer, and deal with the odor in the process in a closed system? Which is what a biogas system is.

Yeah, yeah. It's the organic material that you have to handle and just handling any, it's a dirty job and someone's got to deal with it. Why not deal with it in a way that you can recycle it, make renewable energy and fertilizer, and deal with the odor in the process in a closed system? Which is what a biogas system is.

This is all music to my ears because I'm someone who really, really enjoys recycling my food waste. It's been almost five years now that I've basically, more or less, have reduced my food waste to zero. The last line of defense for me is composting. And so I love that. I know that my scraps go back into the soil. I think it's fair to say that this is better for the environment than fossil fuels. Is that correct to say, Patrick?

This is all music to my ears because I'm someone who really, really enjoys recycling my food waste. It's been almost five years now that I've basically, more or less, have reduced my food waste to zero. The last line of defense for me is composting. And so I love that. I know that my scraps go back into the soil. I think it's fair to say that this is better for the environment than fossil fuels. Is that correct to say, Patrick?

Well, it's not even better, it's we have to recycle our organic material. And you mentioned composting, that's the only other way to recycle our organic material. And composting is great, and it actually works really well with biogas systems because you can still compost the digestive material that comes out of it. But when you have large volumes of material in urban areas or larger manufacturing facilities or food processing facilities, you have lots of organic material. And as a society, we have to find a way to recycle that.

Well, it's not even better, it's we have to recycle our organic material. And you mentioned composting, that's the only other way to recycle our organic material. And composting is great, and it actually works really well with biogas systems because you can still compost the digestive material that comes out of it. But when you have large volumes of material in urban areas or larger manufacturing facilities or food processing facilities, you have lots of organic material. And as a society, we have to find a way to recycle that.

Monica, there's a lot here, there's more ways than one to creating renewable natural gas. But will it work in our future energy mix?

Monica, there's a lot here, there's more ways than one to creating renewable natural gas. But will it work in our future energy mix?

Once biogas is upgraded to renewable natural gas, it's essentially interchangeable with natural gas derived from fossil fuels that we have running through our pipes today. And we can swap it without any disruption to our customers. And that means that we're taking methane that would otherwise have been released into the atmosphere, and actually making use of it. And it also means that we're displacing the need to extract and consume fossil fuels, which again, is a benefit, and avoids the greenhouse gas emissions associated with that process.

Once biogas is upgraded to renewable natural gas, it's essentially interchangeable with natural gas derived from fossil fuels that we have running through our pipes today. And we can swap it without any disruption to our customers. And that means that we're taking methane that would otherwise have been released into the atmosphere, and actually making use of it. And it also means that we're displacing the need to extract and consume fossil fuels, which again, is a benefit, and avoids the greenhouse gas emissions associated with that process.

Monica, can you tell me why the US is such a unique market to make the most of renewable natural gas?

Monica, can you tell me why the US is such a unique market to make the most of renewable natural gas?

Yeah, I mean, to be clear, I don't think that the US is the only place that RNG is going to play a role in achieving net- zero targets, but I do think we're, we're very well positioned to scale the RNG market. Here we have the feed stocks available that we need to make renewable natural gas.

Yeah, I mean, to be clear, I don't think that the US is the only place that RNG is going to play a role in achieving net- zero targets, but I do think we're, we're very well positioned to scale the RNG market. Here we have the feed stocks available that we need to make renewable natural gas.

Is it expensive? Who is this fuel suitable for?

Is it expensive? Who is this fuel suitable for?

Our approach is one that started with what the customer need was, precisely because we wanted to give our customers a say in the types of fuels that they use to heat their homes. States and utilities are working together to educate customers, building out programs and incentives, and providing different financing options to allow for the insulation of electric heat pumps. And we also realize we need to meet them where they are and provide them with different choices and options. If we look at where renewable natural gas prices are today, and compare that to natural gas derived from fossil fuels, there is no doubt that it comes with a premium. However, with the scaling of projects and with the industry growing, I'm confident that there are some cost reduction opportunities that we can see in the future, as we start to increase the amount of renewable natural gas flowing through our pipes.

Our approach is one that started with what the customer need was, precisely because we wanted to give our customers a say in the types of fuels that they use to heat their homes. States and utilities are working together to educate customers, building out programs and incentives, and providing different financing options to allow for the insulation of electric heat pumps. And we also realize we need to meet them where they are and provide them with different choices and options. If we look at where renewable natural gas prices are today, and compare that to natural gas derived from fossil fuels, there is no doubt that it comes with a premium. However, with the scaling of projects and with the industry growing, I'm confident that there are some cost reduction opportunities that we can see in the future, as we start to increase the amount of renewable natural gas flowing through our pipes.

Monica, can we talk a little bit about what differences the customer should expect when using this gas in their homes, or even in their cars in the future?

Monica, can we talk a little bit about what differences the customer should expect when using this gas in their homes, or even in their cars in the future?

Yeah, I mean, hopefully if we're doing our job right, nothing, we're trying to make this as seamless as possible for our customers. Upgrading biogas to renewable natural gas and utilizing existing infrastructure, customers should not see too big of a difference with how they're using gas today.

Yeah, I mean, hopefully if we're doing our job right, nothing, we're trying to make this as seamless as possible for our customers. Upgrading biogas to renewable natural gas and utilizing existing infrastructure, customers should not see too big of a difference with how they're using gas today.

Patrick, the difference between biofuel and biogas, can you explain that a little bit for us?

Patrick, the difference between biofuel and biogas, can you explain that a little bit for us?

Biofuel is technically an umbrella term that means any kind of fuel made from biomass or a biological source. But the way it's really used is to mean liquid biologically derived fuel. So ethanol, biodiesel, renewable diesels, that's usually what biofuels are. Biogas is a biofuel, but it's a gas, and it's primarily methane.

Biofuel is technically an umbrella term that means any kind of fuel made from biomass or a biological source. But the way it's really used is to mean liquid biologically derived fuel. So ethanol, biodiesel, renewable diesels, that's usually what biofuels are. Biogas is a biofuel, but it's a gas, and it's primarily methane.

Thank you both for joining me. It seems to me that a mixed heating approach might be the best way forward to make sure that wherever you live, whether it's in the US, UK, or elsewhere, you can make the shift to renewables without breaking the budget. But budgets do continue to be the point of contention for many of us as the cost of living crisis deepens. We've experienced some really extreme temperatures this summer, and it leaves you keenly aware of how our homes and lives need to adapt in the face of global warming. But moreover, it leaves us worrying about how we can all play a part in the shift to renewables, especially when we're facing a winter of increased heating bills and heavy fuel prices. At the end of the day, the shift to incorporating all these amazing solutions has to make economic sense for us all so that transition to clean, safe energy can be fair. To discuss how we do this. I'm joined by Cirhan Truswell, Climate Change Manager at National Grid. Cirhan, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you both for joining me. It seems to me that a mixed heating approach might be the best way forward to make sure that wherever you live, whether it's in the US, UK, or elsewhere, you can make the shift to renewables without breaking the budget. But budgets do continue to be the point of contention for many of us as the cost of living crisis deepens. We've experienced some really extreme temperatures this summer, and it leaves you keenly aware of how our homes and lives need to adapt in the face of global warming. But moreover, it leaves us worrying about how we can all play a part in the shift to renewables, especially when we're facing a winter of increased heating bills and heavy fuel prices. At the end of the day, the shift to incorporating all these amazing solutions has to make economic sense for us all so that transition to clean, safe energy can be fair. To discuss how we do this. I'm joined by Cirhan Truswell, Climate Change Manager at National Grid. Cirhan, thank you so much for joining us.

Hi Max, thanks for having me here today.

Hi Max, thanks for having me here today.

What does your role as a climate change manager entail at National Grid?

What does your role as a climate change manager entail at National Grid?

So my role primarily focuses on understanding how climate change affects our business, to essentially mitigate both our impact on the climate, but also adapting our business to the physical impacts of climate change that we're seeing right now happening both in the UK and the Northeast of the US.

So my role primarily focuses on understanding how climate change affects our business, to essentially mitigate both our impact on the climate, but also adapting our business to the physical impacts of climate change that we're seeing right now happening both in the UK and the Northeast of the US.

These are big shoes that you need to step into.

These are big shoes that you need to step into.

I absolutely love what I do for a job. If I go back to when I was a teenager, and you have those career chats at school and what do you want to do? And it sounds really cheesy, but I just wanted to do something that helped to save the world.

I absolutely love what I do for a job. If I go back to when I was a teenager, and you have those career chats at school and what do you want to do? And it sounds really cheesy, but I just wanted to do something that helped to save the world.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think everyone can do their bit in terms of helping the environment, whether that's what we can do at home in terms of really basic stuff like reducing the amount of plastic we buy, recycling, changing the way that we travel. And all of those small different activities, if we add them all up to a collective, they can really make a big difference.

I think everyone can do their bit in terms of helping the environment, whether that's what we can do at home in terms of really basic stuff like reducing the amount of plastic we buy, recycling, changing the way that we travel. And all of those small different activities, if we add them all up to a collective, they can really make a big difference.

Small changes equal big impacts.

Small changes equal big impacts.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

So I've been hearing a lot about how land and ocean projects can integrate with a fossil- free future. What kind of projects are National Grid involved with right now?

So I've been hearing a lot about how land and ocean projects can integrate with a fossil- free future. What kind of projects are National Grid involved with right now?

So National Grid has been working on projects which help to bring together the natural world and the energy industry for some time. We actually own quite a large amount of land around our operational assets, particularly in the UK. We have to understand what habitats we own. We measure that by calculating the natural capital value of our land. And what that basically means is putting a financial value on the services that that land provides to us and the local communities, and biodiversity as well. And that could be anything from carbon sequestration to pollination to recreational and wellbeing value if that land is being used by members of the public. It enables us to bring that back into the business and talk about nature in a business way. A big part of our approach is that working with local partnerships, whether that's NGOs, so charities, even down to local farmers or community groups who want to come and do volunteering sessions on our land.

So National Grid has been working on projects which help to bring together the natural world and the energy industry for some time. We actually own quite a large amount of land around our operational assets, particularly in the UK. We have to understand what habitats we own. We measure that by calculating the natural capital value of our land. And what that basically means is putting a financial value on the services that that land provides to us and the local communities, and biodiversity as well. And that could be anything from carbon sequestration to pollination to recreational and wellbeing value if that land is being used by members of the public. It enables us to bring that back into the business and talk about nature in a business way. A big part of our approach is that working with local partnerships, whether that's NGOs, so charities, even down to local farmers or community groups who want to come and do volunteering sessions on our land.

So we're on land, let's go in the ocean, let's walk closer to the shorelines, what's happening in the oceans? Because that's another part of the world, 71, I think it is, 71% that covers the Earth, oceans, and the oceans are another way of capturing CO2 and emissions. So tell us a little bit about the oceans and what National Grid is doing.

So we're on land, let's go in the ocean, let's walk closer to the shorelines, what's happening in the oceans? Because that's another part of the world, 71, I think it is, 71% that covers the Earth, oceans, and the oceans are another way of capturing CO2 and emissions. So tell us a little bit about the oceans and what National Grid is doing.

When we think about the oceans, one of the projects we are working on at the moment is with the Blue Recovery Leaders Group. It's an initiative that's been created by the Wildfowl & Wetlands Trust. And it's basically bringing together lots of different organizations, and the aim is to create 100, 000 hectares of healthy functioning wetlands in the UK. And one of the things that we're looking at marine based is salt marshes. So salt marshes are super efficient at locking away carbon. So basically, what happens is, when the salt marsh plants die, rather than decomposing and releasing their carbon into the atmosphere, they become buried in the mud. And so as the tide comes in and goes back out again, and sea levels rise, more sediment layers get buried, and therefore more carbon gets locked beneath the mud. And it's a much faster way of sequestering carbon than you get from planting trees, as an example.

When we think about the oceans, one of the projects we are working on at the moment is with the Blue Recovery Leaders Group. It's an initiative that's been created by the Wildfowl & Wetlands Trust. And it's basically bringing together lots of different organizations, and the aim is to create 100, 000 hectares of healthy functioning wetlands in the UK. And one of the things that we're looking at marine based is salt marshes. So salt marshes are super efficient at locking away carbon. So basically, what happens is, when the salt marsh plants die, rather than decomposing and releasing their carbon into the atmosphere, they become buried in the mud. And so as the tide comes in and goes back out again, and sea levels rise, more sediment layers get buried, and therefore more carbon gets locked beneath the mud. And it's a much faster way of sequestering carbon than you get from planting trees, as an example.

Amazing.

Amazing.

You can start to see an impact in terms of carbon sequestration between one to two to three years, from starting to develop that salt marsh.

You can start to see an impact in terms of carbon sequestration between one to two to three years, from starting to develop that salt marsh.

Wow.

Wow.

Trees, you're looking at 10 years plus to start to see that real impact in terms of absorbing carbon.

Trees, you're looking at 10 years plus to start to see that real impact in terms of absorbing carbon.

And the clock is ticking.

And the clock is ticking.

And the clock is ticking, absolutely.

And the clock is ticking, absolutely.

And also, with the salt marshes, how else are they used?

And also, with the salt marshes, how else are they used?

So when we're looking to develop an initiative like this, we'd look at what ecosystem services in addition to the absorbing carbon that area can provide. So we'd look to work with local communities because a big part of this is making sure that people can actually use this land for wellbeing, recreation, but also biodiversity. When you start to create these salt marshes and they start to become more developed, they attract a huge array of wildlife. People come to birdwatch, to be part of that area. They're also amazing at managing flood risk, which is another issue that we're seeing obviously as a result of climate change. So actually having these so marshes in place has a direct impact in terms of reducing the wider impact on our communities and our seaside locations.

So when we're looking to develop an initiative like this, we'd look at what ecosystem services in addition to the absorbing carbon that area can provide. So we'd look to work with local communities because a big part of this is making sure that people can actually use this land for wellbeing, recreation, but also biodiversity. When you start to create these salt marshes and they start to become more developed, they attract a huge array of wildlife. People come to birdwatch, to be part of that area. They're also amazing at managing flood risk, which is another issue that we're seeing obviously as a result of climate change. So actually having these so marshes in place has a direct impact in terms of reducing the wider impact on our communities and our seaside locations.

This all sounds great. Let's talk about the government. Let's talk about how they're implementing this in their plans.

This all sounds great. Let's talk about the government. Let's talk about how they're implementing this in their plans.

Yeah, so as we transition towards net zero, we, as National Grid, will have to connect large amounts of renewable energy, and that's to meet the government's target of connecting 50 gigawatts of offshore wind by 2030. So that means that we need to develop a lot of infrastructure networks, and obviously there's a potential impact from a biodiversity marine perspective, but also there's a huge opportunity for us to do something positive, when you look at how our networks span the country regionally. An example of one of the initiatives that the government has recently bought out is called biodiversity net gain and marine net gain. And basically, what these aim to do is to leave the natural environment in a measurably better state than it was before any kind of infrastructure or other development takes place. But at National Grid, as I said earlier, we've got to connect all this infrastructure, we've got to start work on this right now. So we've already committed, as a company, to at least 10% or more biodiversity net gain on all of our new construction projects. We're working with local NGOs to identify where there are opportunities to deliver the most impact, and also seeking to be part of local nature recovery networks, which is an initiative again that the government are bringing out, which is looking at bringing lots of different organizations together to have that regional impact for biodiversity, wildlife and landscapes. We've seen much higher interest from our investors in terms of explaining what we're doing with regard to not just nature, but our general sustainability targets. And that's absolutely right, and I think that focus is only going to continue and holding companies to account in terms of what their strategy and their targets mean, not just in the short term, but also in the long term. You might make some changes now, but you're probably not going to see the value of that until 10, 15, 20 years down the line.

Yeah, so as we transition towards net zero, we, as National Grid, will have to connect large amounts of renewable energy, and that's to meet the government's target of connecting 50 gigawatts of offshore wind by 2030. So that means that we need to develop a lot of infrastructure networks, and obviously there's a potential impact from a biodiversity marine perspective, but also there's a huge opportunity for us to do something positive, when you look at how our networks span the country regionally. An example of one of the initiatives that the government has recently bought out is called biodiversity net gain and marine net gain. And basically, what these aim to do is to leave the natural environment in a measurably better state than it was before any kind of infrastructure or other development takes place. But at National Grid, as I said earlier, we've got to connect all this infrastructure, we've got to start work on this right now. So we've already committed, as a company, to at least 10% or more biodiversity net gain on all of our new construction projects. We're working with local NGOs to identify where there are opportunities to deliver the most impact, and also seeking to be part of local nature recovery networks, which is an initiative again that the government are bringing out, which is looking at bringing lots of different organizations together to have that regional impact for biodiversity, wildlife and landscapes. We've seen much higher interest from our investors in terms of explaining what we're doing with regard to not just nature, but our general sustainability targets. And that's absolutely right, and I think that focus is only going to continue and holding companies to account in terms of what their strategy and their targets mean, not just in the short term, but also in the long term. You might make some changes now, but you're probably not going to see the value of that until 10, 15, 20 years down the line.

It's a long road.

It's a long road.

It is.

It is.

And we're playing the long game here. I don't think we hear enough about what the effects that we're seeing today and what the projection's going to be in the next 20 or 30 years, and how the changes that we're making today will affect the outcome.

And we're playing the long game here. I don't think we hear enough about what the effects that we're seeing today and what the projection's going to be in the next 20 or 30 years, and how the changes that we're making today will affect the outcome.

We've looked at all the latest climate change science, and we've mapped that against the IPCC's global warming projections, and then we've mapped that against our assets. We've got a tool now, which basically gives us a projection per decade, out to 2070, of what climate change risks we're going to be expecting to see affecting our networks in the UK and the US. It's really interesting because it takes 10 different climate change hazards; heat waves, river flooding, high winds, coastal flooding, and it basically maps out where our hotspots are. So what we're doing now is working with our business to say, " What decisions do we need to take now from an investment perspective to adapt our networks out into the future?" So for example, if we look at our pylons, we can say, " Well, how are they going to behave under higher temperatures that we know are coming in the future? And do we potentially need to invest or change our decisions in terms of how we're planning those networks out to 2030, 2040 and beyond?" Because what we build now will be on the system in 40 years time. I think if we can link in what we know is coming in terms of climate change hazards and how that's going to affect our networks and wider infrastructure in the UK, potentially we can use some of those nature- based solutions to help us solve some of those problems, whether that be flood risk management, absorbing carbon, so that we know that we're going to keep those overall temperatures much lower, and therefore we're not going to see as higher impact.

We've looked at all the latest climate change science, and we've mapped that against the IPCC's global warming projections, and then we've mapped that against our assets. We've got a tool now, which basically gives us a projection per decade, out to 2070, of what climate change risks we're going to be expecting to see affecting our networks in the UK and the US. It's really interesting because it takes 10 different climate change hazards; heat waves, river flooding, high winds, coastal flooding, and it basically maps out where our hotspots are. So what we're doing now is working with our business to say, " What decisions do we need to take now from an investment perspective to adapt our networks out into the future?" So for example, if we look at our pylons, we can say, " Well, how are they going to behave under higher temperatures that we know are coming in the future? And do we potentially need to invest or change our decisions in terms of how we're planning those networks out to 2030, 2040 and beyond?" Because what we build now will be on the system in 40 years time. I think if we can link in what we know is coming in terms of climate change hazards and how that's going to affect our networks and wider infrastructure in the UK, potentially we can use some of those nature- based solutions to help us solve some of those problems, whether that be flood risk management, absorbing carbon, so that we know that we're going to keep those overall temperatures much lower, and therefore we're not going to see as higher impact.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Clean Energy Revolution from National Grid. And thanks to all my guests for helping us explore how natural processes, biochemistry, conservation and clean energy can really all fit together in our fossil- free future. It looks like there are still lots of connections to be made, research to be done, and brilliant projects to take place, but the consequences of the past are allowing us to learn how our complex and connected environments can really be on our side going forwards. I'm looking forward to the day when all of that clever science comes into play to make our homes the greenest they can be. If you'd like to find out more about how clean and green energy is part of your own world right now, right now, right now, you can follow National Grid on social media or visit nationalgrid. com. Next month, we're looking forward to Zero Emissions Day with our tips and learnings to help you work towards a zero emissions lifestyle, wherever you happen to be. There might be some crazy ideas, but there might be some life- changing ones too. Make sure you follow this podcast and do not miss it. Whatever you do, don't miss it. I'll see you then.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Clean Energy Revolution from National Grid. And thanks to all my guests for helping us explore how natural processes, biochemistry, conservation and clean energy can really all fit together in our fossil- free future. It looks like there are still lots of connections to be made, research to be done, and brilliant projects to take place, but the consequences of the past are allowing us to learn how our complex and connected environments can really be on our side going forwards. I'm looking forward to the day when all of that clever science comes into play to make our homes the greenest they can be. If you'd like to find out more about how clean and green energy is part of your own world right now, right now, right now, you can follow National Grid on social media or visit nationalgrid. com. Next month, we're looking forward to Zero Emissions Day with our tips and learnings to help you work towards a zero emissions lifestyle, wherever you happen to be. There might be some crazy ideas, but there might be some life- changing ones too. Make sure you follow this podcast and do not miss it. Whatever you do, don't miss it. I'll see you then.