If Caleb Hammer hosted a show for CIOs, this would be the episode. 💥

Kat and Pete sit down to deliver the roast every IT leader needs - unpacking how technical debt quietly drains innovation, creates risk exposure, and costs you 27% interest on every “quick fix”.

In this episode: 
🚨 Why tech debt isn’t an IT issue - it’s an organizational problem 
💸 The real cost of duplicate platforms, workarounds, and “Jimmy’s app” 
🧱 How to renovate your tech foundations without stopping innovation 
🤖 Why ignoring integration points will haunt your AI strategy 
🧭 Practical steps to measure, manage, and reduce tech debt for good If your IT architecture looks like a house with rotting walls - this is your sign to call an intervention.

🎧 Subscribe to The Change Agents Podcast for more brutally honest takes on digital transformation, AI, and the future of enterprise agility.

--- Hosted by ServiceNow's human agents: Peter McDonnell, Chief Transformation Officer and Katrina Read, Director of Transformation APJ

If Caleb Hammer hosted a show for CIOs, this would be the episode. 💥
Kat and Pete sit down to deliver the roast every IT leader needs - unpacking how technical debt quietly drains innovation, creates risk exposure, and costs you 27% interest on every &ldquo;quick fix&rdquo;.
In this episode: 🚨 Why tech debt isn&rsquo;t an IT issue - it&rsquo;s an organizational problem 💸 The real cost of duplicate platforms, workarounds, and &ldquo;Jimmy&rsquo;s app&rdquo; 🧱 How to renovate your tech foundations without stopping innovation 🤖 Why ignoring integration points will haunt your AI strategy 🧭 Practical steps to measure, manage, and reduce tech debt for good If your IT architecture looks like a house with rotting walls - this is your sign to call an intervention.
🎧 Subscribe to The Change Agents Podcast for more brutally honest takes on digital transformation, AI, and the future of enterprise agility.
--- Hosted by ServiceNow's human agents: Peter McDonnell, Chief Transformation Officer and Katrina Read, Director of Transformation APJ

CIOs, It’s Time for a Tech Debt Intervention (Caleb Hammer Style)

You can buy the best platform, hire the best consultants, and build the best plan - but if your leadership is flaky and your culture is toxic, all you’ve upgraded is your failure rate.

In this episode of The Change Agents, Kat and Pete unpack why culture is the operating system of every transformation -and why leadership is the version update that determines whether change sticks or stalls. From “change theatre” to genuine leadership, trust, and vulnerability, this one’s a must-listen for anyone leading digital or AI-driven transformation in 2025.

#Leadership #Culture #DigitalTransformation #ServiceNow #AILeadership #ChangeManagement #WorkCulture

You can buy the best platform, hire the best consultants, and build the best plan - but if your leadership is flaky and your culture is toxic, all you&rsquo;ve upgraded is your failure rate.
In this episode of The Change Agents, Kat and Pete unpack why culture is the operating system of every transformation -and why leadership is the version update that determines whether change sticks or stalls. From &ldquo;change theatre&rdquo; to genuine leadership, trust, and vulnerability, this one&rsquo;s a must-listen for anyone leading digital or AI-driven transformation in 2025.
#Leadership #Culture #DigitalTransformation #ServiceNow #AILeadership #ChangeManagement #WorkCulture

You Can’t Buy Transformation: Why Toxic Leadership Kills Great Tech

What’s the real difference between innovation and transformation—and why do so many leaders get it wrong? 🤔

In this episode, Kat and Pete break it down with simple analogies (including The Wizard of Oz 👠), real-world examples like Kodak, Netflix, and Uber, and a few laughs about gym memberships and ruby slippers along the way.

Key insights you’ll learn:

💡 Why innovation = new ways of doing things (products, services, customer experience) 
💡 Why transformation = the cultural, process, and technology shifts that make innovation stick 
💡 The dangers of “innovation without transformation” (and vice versa) 
💡 Practical tips for executives: how to measure success, empower people, and balance both for sustainable growth

Whether you’re a CEO, business leader, or transformation strategist, this conversation will help you rethink how to drive change, embrace AI, and build future-ready organizations.

---

Hosted by ServiceNow's human agents: Peter McDonnell, Chief Transformation Officer and Katrina Read, Director of Transformation APJ

What&rsquo;s the real difference between innovation and transformation&mdash;and why do so many leaders get it wrong? 🤔
In this episode, Kat and Pete break it down with simple analogies (including The Wizard of Oz 👠), real-world examples like Kodak, Netflix, and Uber, and a few laughs about gym memberships and ruby slippers along the way.
Key insights you&rsquo;ll learn:
💡 Why innovation = new ways of doing things (products, services, customer experience)&nbsp; 💡 Why transformation = the cultural, process, and technology shifts that make innovation stick 💡 The dangers of &ldquo;innovation without transformation&rdquo; (and vice versa)&nbsp; 💡 Practical tips for executives: how to measure success, empower people, and balance both for sustainable growth
Whether you&rsquo;re a CEO, business leader, or transformation strategist, this conversation will help you rethink how to drive change, embrace AI, and build future-ready organizations.
---
Hosted by ServiceNow's human agents: Peter McDonnell, Chief Transformation Officer and Katrina Read, Director of Transformation APJ

Innovation vs Transformation: What’s the Difference?

When we think about digital transformation, most people picture engineers, coders, or the CIO. But the real heroes often sit outside of IT - people like Becky in Finance, HR leaders, procurement teams, and legal advisors.

In this episode, Kat and Pete dive into why transformation only sticks when organisations empower these unsung heroes. From employee experience to automation, self-service, and AI, we explore how everyday change agents are driving sustainable innovation.

👉 What you’ll learn:


Why transformation is enterprise-wide - not just IT’s job


How HR and finance are shaping employee experience and business outcomes


The power of self-service and AI to unlock capacity for teams


How to measure impact and sustain change beyond phase one


Why recognising and empowering your “Beckys” is critical to success

Whether you’re in finance, HR, legal, or IT, this conversation shows how transformation is about people first, technology second.

When we think about digital transformation, most people picture engineers, coders, or the CIO. But the real heroes often sit outside of IT - people like Becky in Finance, HR leaders, procurement teams, and legal advisors.
In this episode, Kat and Pete dive into why transformation only sticks when organisations empower these unsung heroes. From employee experience to automation, self-service, and AI, we explore how everyday change agents are driving sustainable innovation.
👉 What you&rsquo;ll learn:
<ul data-start="741" data-end="1079">
<li data-start="741" data-end="802">
Why transformation is enterprise-wide - not just IT&rsquo;s job
</li>
<li data-start="803" data-end="879">
How HR and finance are shaping employee experience and business outcomes
</li>
<li data-start="880" data-end="945">
The power of self-service and AI to unlock capacity for teams
</li>
<li data-start="946" data-end="1007">
How to measure impact and sustain change beyond phase one
</li>
<li data-start="1008" data-end="1079">
Why recognising and empowering your &ldquo;Beckys&rdquo; is critical to success
</li>
</ul>
Whether you&rsquo;re in finance, HR, legal, or IT, this conversation shows how transformation is about people first, technology second.

The Unsung Heroes of Digital Transformation | Why “Becky in Finance” is the Real Change Agent

Kat and Pete take to the Melbourne office golf course to discuss four game-changing shifts in how organisations are thinking about the role of technology - because nothing says “serious business” like holding a putter while talking about AI.

In between questionable golf swings and champagne references, they share real stories from the field, ideas that might just blow up your old playbook, and a few jokes that should probably have been left in the clubhouse.

⛳️ If you’re still playing by the old rules, this is your official intervention.

Kat and Pete take to the Melbourne office golf course to discuss four game-changing shifts in how organisations are thinking about the role of technology - because nothing says &ldquo;serious business&rdquo; like holding a putter while talking about AI.
In between questionable golf swings and champagne references, they share real stories from the field, ideas that might just blow up your old playbook, and a few jokes that should probably have been left in the clubhouse.
⛳️ If you&rsquo;re still playing by the old rules, this is your official intervention.

Fore! Mindset Shifts That’ll Change Your Game

We all know someone who thinks GenAI can do literally everything (probably the same person who says “let’s circle back” in every meeting). 🙄

In our latest episode, Pete & Kat dive into:

✅ Why “AI-washing” is the new greenwashing 
✅ Use cases that ACTUALLY matter (and save your weekends!) 
✅ How guardrails and trust will make or break your AI strategy 
✅ Why the future is human-led, AI-augmented

If you’re still waiting on the platform, this train is leaving the station FAST. Winners won’t be those with the flashiest tools - they’ll be the ones with trustworthy AI and people on board.

We all know someone who thinks GenAI can do literally everything (probably the same person who says &ldquo;let&rsquo;s circle back&rdquo; in every meeting). 🙄
In our latest episode, Pete &amp; Kat dive into:
✅ Why &ldquo;AI-washing&rdquo; is the new greenwashing ✅ Use cases that ACTUALLY matter (and save your weekends!) ✅ How guardrails and trust will make or break your AI strategy ✅ Why the future is human-led, AI-augmented
If you&rsquo;re still waiting on the platform, this train is leaving the station FAST. Winners won&rsquo;t be those with the flashiest tools - they&rsquo;ll be the ones with trustworthy AI and people on board.

GenAI: Hype, Hope, Happening, or Here to Stay?

Did your CRM promise a utopia but delivered a fancy Rolodex with a UX degree?

Join Pete and Kat as they bravely poke the sacred cow of CRM and ask the tough questions like:

❓ Why does your telco need seven days and a séance to fix your modem? 
❓ Why does your virtual agent sound like a confused intern filling out a colour chart? 
❓ And why does it still take 5.2 days to solve a problem that should take 30 minutes?

It’s the CRM roast you didn’t know you needed - with real data, real frustration, and a really broken Wi-Fi modem.

🧠 Expect:

• Insights from the customer service research report 
• Tales of tech trauma and loyalty on life support 
• A vision for fixing the “messy middle” with workflow orchestration and GenAI 
• ...and a heartfelt plea: "Do it for Kat. Please. She’s still on hold."

Did your CRM promise a utopia but delivered a fancy Rolodex with a UX degree?
Join Pete and Kat as they bravely poke the sacred cow of CRM and ask the tough questions like:
❓ Why does your telco need seven days and a s&eacute;ance to fix your modem?&nbsp; ❓ Why does your virtual agent sound like a confused intern filling out a colour chart? ❓ And why does it still take 5.2 days to solve a problem that should take 30 minutes?
It&rsquo;s the CRM roast you didn&rsquo;t know you needed - with real data, real frustration, and a really broken Wi-Fi modem.
🧠 Expect:
&bull; Insights from the customer service research report &bull; Tales of tech trauma and loyalty on life support &bull; A vision for fixing the &ldquo;messy middle&rdquo; with workflow orchestration and GenAI &bull; ...and a heartfelt plea: "Do it for Kat. Please. She&rsquo;s still on hold."

The great CRM unbundling: Do we even need one system to rule them all?

PSA for anyone still thinking transformation = tech upgrade: You’re doing it wrong!

Join Pete and Kat as they kick off The Change Agents Podcast with a spicy convo on why people are the real engine of transformation. From HR to the help desk, they're putting the human back in the digital.

Expect:
👩‍💻 A reality check on tech-led change
🧠 Why understanding the why matters
🤝 Leadership lessons in trust, transparency, and co-design
🧯 A light roasting of change theatre (yes, we're looking at you, PowerPoint warriors)
🚀 How to avoid automating chaos and start building real momentum

If you've ever sat through a transformation initiative that forgot to invite the people actually affected... this one’s for you. Let’s stop pretending culture change comes from a software install.

PSA for anyone still thinking transformation = tech upgrade: You&rsquo;re doing it wrong!
Join Pete and Kat as they kick off The Change Agents Podcast with a spicy convo on why people are the real engine of transformation. From HR to the help desk, they're putting the human back in the digital.
Expect: 👩&zwj;💻 A reality check on tech-led change 🧠 Why understanding the why matters 🤝 Leadership lessons in trust, transparency, and co-design 🧯 A light roasting of change theatre (yes, we're looking at you, PowerPoint warriors) 🚀 How to avoid automating chaos and start building real momentum
If you've ever sat through a transformation initiative that forgot to invite the people actually affected... this one&rsquo;s for you. Let&rsquo;s stop pretending culture change comes from a software install.

Are We Still Ignoring The People Part?

The podcast where work flows, buzzwords go, and digital transformation gets the side-eye it sometimes deserves. In each episode, we chat with the change makers, risk takers, and quietly brilliant minds behind real change – no filters, no fluff, just the good stuff.

Expect tales of automation magic, AI mishaps, platform glow-ups, and the occasional hot take on why legacy systems should come with hazard pay. It’s sharp, a little weird, and totally worth your coffee break. (Or wine break – we won’t judge. In fact, we’ll probably join you!)

This is transformation – with better banter.

Hosted by ServiceNow's human agents: Peter McDonnell, Chief Transformation Officer and Katrina Read, Director of Transformation APJ

The podcast where work flows, buzzwords go, and digital transformation gets the side-eye it sometimes deserves. In each episode, we chat with the change makers, risk takers, and quietly brilliant minds behind real change &ndash; no filters, no fluff, just the good stuff. Expect tales of automation magic, AI mishaps, platform glow-ups, and the occasional hot take on why legacy systems should come with hazard pay. It&rsquo;s sharp, a little weird, and totally worth your coffee break. (Or wine break &ndash; we won&rsquo;t judge. In fact, we&rsquo;ll probably join you!) This is transformation &ndash; with better banter. Hosted by ServiceNow's human agents: Peter McDonnell, Chief Transformation Officer and Katrina Read, Director of Transformation APJ

The Change Agents Podcast

The podcast where work flows, buzzwords go, and transformation gets the side-eye it sometimes deserves. In each episode, we share insights from the change makers, risk takers, and quietly brilliant minds behind real change – no filters, no fluff, just the good stuff.

Expect practical advice onbusiness, digital and AI transformation, operational resilience, and tech modernisation - along with the challenges that come with replacing outdated systems and ways of working. Our focus is on sharing insights that matter: how organisations are adapting, where technology is enabling growth, and what leaders can learn from real transformation journeys.

If you’re interested in the future of work, AI in the enterprise, or building a sustainable digital transformation strategy, this podcast offers clear perspectives and actionable takeaways to help you shape what comes next.

Hosted by ServiceNow's human agents: Peter McDonnell, Chief Transformation Officer and Katrina Read, Director of Transformation APJ

The podcast where work flows, buzzwords go, and transformation gets the side-eye it sometimes deserves. In each episode, we share insights from the change makers, risk takers, and quietly brilliant minds behind real change &ndash; no filters, no fluff, just the good stuff.
Expect practical advice on business, digital and AI transformation, operational resilience, and tech modernisation - along with the challenges that come with replacing outdated systems and ways of working. Our focus is on sharing insights that matter: how organisations are adapting, where technology is enabling growth, and what leaders can learn from real transformation journeys.
If you&rsquo;re interested in the future of work, AI in the enterprise, or building a sustainable digital transformation strategy, this podcast offers clear perspectives and actionable takeaways to help you shape what comes next.
Hosted by ServiceNow's human agents: Peter McDonnell, Chief Transformation Officer and Katrina Read, Director of Transformation APJ

The Change Agents Podcast

Social links:

Follow the podcast:

8 clip(s)