Welcome to the Business of Tech powered by two Degrees Business, the podcast where we dive deep into the trends and technologies shaping the future of business. I'm your host Peter Griffin. Today we're tackling one of the hottest and, let's face it, most overwhelming topic in business right now, Artificial intelligence. I've done several shows over the last year on AI, mainly from technologists and scientists and startup founders who are using AI. This one's going to be a little bit different. While AI is starting to change how entire industries operate, many small and medium sized business owners here in New Zealand are left wondering does this all hype or can AI actually make a difference for me? How do I cut through the noise and put these tools to work in my business without losing what makes it unique. To help us answer those questions, I'm joined this week by Tracy Sheen, the Brisbane based AI consultant and business coach. Tracy's an award winning author, speaker, and AI strategist with over three decades of experience in telecommunications, marketing and technology. She's worked with major brands like Telstra, Optus and Harvey Norman She's a trusted voice when it comes to making technology accessible for everyone. Her last book, The End of Technophobia, one Australia's Business Book of the Year in twenty twenty one. Now Tracy's back with a new book, AI and You Reimagine Business, which I love because it delivers a practical, jargon free roadmap for small and medium sized businesses looking to embrace AI. Is packed with real world case studies and hands on exercises showing you how to streamline tasks, boost productivity, and enhance your relationships with clients and or without overloading you with the tech. I think it's exactly what our businesses need as they move from experimentation with AI to really incorporating it into their operations. Tracy's also a lot of fun, so I think you'll really enjoy this. Here's Tracy Sheen on AI and You. Tracy Sheen, Welcome to the business of tech. How are you doing?

Welcome to the Business of Tech powered by two Degrees Business, the podcast where we dive deep into the trends and technologies shaping the future of business. I'm your host Peter Griffin. Today we're tackling one of the hottest and, let's face it, most overwhelming topic in business right now, Artificial intelligence. I've done several shows over the last year on AI, mainly from technologists and scientists and startup founders who are using AI. This one's going to be a little bit different. While AI is starting to change how entire industries operate, many small and medium sized business owners here in New Zealand are left wondering does this all hype or can AI actually make a difference for me? How do I cut through the noise and put these tools to work in my business without losing what makes it unique. To help us answer those questions, I'm joined this week by Tracy Sheen, the Brisbane based AI consultant and business coach. Tracy's an award winning author, speaker, and AI strategist with over three decades of experience in telecommunications, marketing and technology. She's worked with major brands like Telstra, Optus and Harvey Norman She's a trusted voice when it comes to making technology accessible for everyone. Her last book, The End of Technophobia, one Australia's Business Book of the Year in twenty twenty one. Now Tracy's back with a new book, AI and You Reimagine Business, which I love because it delivers a practical, jargon free roadmap for small and medium sized businesses looking to embrace AI. Is packed with real world case studies and hands on exercises showing you how to streamline tasks, boost productivity, and enhance your relationships with clients and or without overloading you with the tech. I think it's exactly what our businesses need as they move from experimentation with AI to really incorporating it into their operations. Tracy's also a lot of fun, so I think you'll really enjoy this. Here's Tracy Sheen on AI and You. Tracy Sheen, Welcome to the business of tech. How are you doing?

I am looking forward to stirring the AI plot with you, Peter.

I am looking forward to stirring the AI plot with you, Peter.

And you have been with your new book AI and You Reimagining Business. And you know there's just been a deluge of AI related books. I've just read one called AI Empire, which is all about the open Ai story and all the sort of nefarious stuff that went on in the background there as this company tried to build the biggest AI monolith in the world and it's succeeding and doing that. But what I love about your book, Tracy is it's actually aimed at the people who need to be adopting AI. And we're a country of small businesses in New Zealand like Australia, and mid sized businesses, and every company is now trying to grapple with this. All these tools from the likes to open Ai, Microsoft Aws, Canva and others. Everyone has embraced AI and the rest of us are going, Okay, well that's great, but is this all hype or how do I actually use these tools in a useful way? And what I love about the book is that it gives you some really practical tips on how to do that and a framework to approach it as well. So we're going to dive into that, but before we do, just a bit about your background. Trac you're obviously a successful author. You had a business Book of the Year in twenty twenty one, congratulations and that so you're back with with another book. But tell us about your journey in business and business coaching and the like.

And you have been with your new book AI and You Reimagining Business. And you know there's just been a deluge of AI related books. I've just read one called AI Empire, which is all about the open Ai story and all the sort of nefarious stuff that went on in the background there as this company tried to build the biggest AI monolith in the world and it's succeeding and doing that. But what I love about your book, Tracy is it's actually aimed at the people who need to be adopting AI. And we're a country of small businesses in New Zealand like Australia, and mid sized businesses, and every company is now trying to grapple with this. All these tools from the likes to open Ai, Microsoft Aws, Canva and others. Everyone has embraced AI and the rest of us are going, Okay, well that's great, but is this all hype or how do I actually use these tools in a useful way? And what I love about the book is that it gives you some really practical tips on how to do that and a framework to approach it as well. So we're going to dive into that, but before we do, just a bit about your background. Trac you're obviously a successful author. You had a business Book of the Year in twenty twenty one, congratulations and that so you're back with with another book. But tell us about your journey in business and business coaching and the like.

Yeah, well, my journey actually is one of those ones that you know only makes sense when you look at the rearview mirror. So when I was six, I was playing with electronic scales on the parent on my floor of my parents' workshops, so one of the first in Australia to import electronic scales. So I was pulling them apart and playing around with the boards and soldering things back together, trying to figure out why that worked and that didn't work. And you can't judge me, Peter. It was the seventies and six year olds were allowed to play with soldering irons, so you know, fair play. I got into selling mobile phones straight out of high school, so that was nineteen ninety. We had very little coverage in regional Australia, much like you guys went through across the ditch and all the mobile phones they were the size of house bricks. Although were really good for because you couldn't reach your connection to make a call if you needed to. That you could smack somebody over the head and run like hell if you needed to. So that was my first kind of introduction into the world of technology, and you know, even though I was only like eighteen, I just had that there was some kind of knowing that this is the start of something that's about to change everything. So I knew I was where I was meant to be, and then my career just kind of I bounced around a lot from there, launched the iPhone into Australia as part of a retail channel, helped launch as technology into Australia, you know, and was kind of there at the forefront of all these big kind of tech advancements, but always from the point of view of being there for the small business community. So I was always writing the manuals for how do the retailers put these new tech devices into the hands of small business owners and what is that going to mean for them? So I've always had this real kind of I guess passion for connecting the technologlogy with the human or particularly small business owners. And then left corporate in two thousand and eight, started my first business with my now husband, bought and sold a few and this kind of tech stuff always just kept bubbling up, did a podcast, did a few other things, and I really started to realize that my passion is really about, you know, continuing to help small business owners in particular connect with these tools in a way that allows them to get back to doing what they actually love and why they got into business, and maybe spend some time with friends and family instead of always being on as a business owner.

Yeah, well, my journey actually is one of those ones that you know only makes sense when you look at the rearview mirror. So when I was six, I was playing with electronic scales on the parent on my floor of my parents' workshops, so one of the first in Australia to import electronic scales. So I was pulling them apart and playing around with the boards and soldering things back together, trying to figure out why that worked and that didn't work. And you can't judge me, Peter. It was the seventies and six year olds were allowed to play with soldering irons, so you know, fair play. I got into selling mobile phones straight out of high school, so that was nineteen ninety. We had very little coverage in regional Australia, much like you guys went through across the ditch and all the mobile phones they were the size of house bricks. Although were really good for because you couldn't reach your connection to make a call if you needed to. That you could smack somebody over the head and run like hell if you needed to. So that was my first kind of introduction into the world of technology, and you know, even though I was only like eighteen, I just had that there was some kind of knowing that this is the start of something that's about to change everything. So I knew I was where I was meant to be, and then my career just kind of I bounced around a lot from there, launched the iPhone into Australia as part of a retail channel, helped launch as technology into Australia, you know, and was kind of there at the forefront of all these big kind of tech advancements, but always from the point of view of being there for the small business community. So I was always writing the manuals for how do the retailers put these new tech devices into the hands of small business owners and what is that going to mean for them? So I've always had this real kind of I guess passion for connecting the technologlogy with the human or particularly small business owners. And then left corporate in two thousand and eight, started my first business with my now husband, bought and sold a few and this kind of tech stuff always just kept bubbling up, did a podcast, did a few other things, and I really started to realize that my passion is really about, you know, continuing to help small business owners in particular connect with these tools in a way that allows them to get back to doing what they actually love and why they got into business, and maybe spend some time with friends and family instead of always being on as a business owner.

Well, this is the dream scenario you outline in AI, and you just a quote from it. You say, picture this. Your business is running like clockwork. AI handles the admin trends and to do's that usually bog you down, leaving you free to focus on the parts of your business that you actually like. Your customers feel like VIPs because you give them exactly what they need when they need it. Your team is happier because the grunt work is done for them, and you have time to plan for the future or take a well earned break. And it's the dream scenario for all of us and remains elusive for a lot of us as well. We have a productivity problem in New Zealand, less so in Australia, but still most, you know, Western countries are suffering with labor productivity. In New Zealand we work probably the hardest in the OECD in terms of the hours that we put in for the output. So we've been told by the government we need to pick up our productivity. They're looking at advanced technologies like AI to do that, and that is what we want, you know, all of the grunt work taken out, so at least we can then focus on the more creative stuff and the stuff that matters and relationships. You talk a lot in the book about how key relationships are. I guess you know, there's been a lot of hype around AI as being the promise technology. But as you said, you've been through these waves of technology, email, the mobile revolution, cloud, and now AI is just the latest one. How do we actually get those gains because it seems like through all of those revolutions were working harder than ever. Sure, they automated some things and made connectivity easier, but we're just more overwhelmed than ever before. What's going on?

Well, this is the dream scenario you outline in AI, and you just a quote from it. You say, picture this. Your business is running like clockwork. AI handles the admin trends and to do's that usually bog you down, leaving you free to focus on the parts of your business that you actually like. Your customers feel like VIPs because you give them exactly what they need when they need it. Your team is happier because the grunt work is done for them, and you have time to plan for the future or take a well earned break. And it's the dream scenario for all of us and remains elusive for a lot of us as well. We have a productivity problem in New Zealand, less so in Australia, but still most, you know, Western countries are suffering with labor productivity. In New Zealand we work probably the hardest in the OECD in terms of the hours that we put in for the output. So we've been told by the government we need to pick up our productivity. They're looking at advanced technologies like AI to do that, and that is what we want, you know, all of the grunt work taken out, so at least we can then focus on the more creative stuff and the stuff that matters and relationships. You talk a lot in the book about how key relationships are. I guess you know, there's been a lot of hype around AI as being the promise technology. But as you said, you've been through these waves of technology, email, the mobile revolution, cloud, and now AI is just the latest one. How do we actually get those gains because it seems like through all of those revolutions were working harder than ever. Sure, they automated some things and made connectivity easier, but we're just more overwhelmed than ever before. What's going on?

Yeah, look, it's I think we've got sold of Furfy to be honest. You know, it was like, here, take another device and then it'll make your life easier. But you've got to buy in for this subscription and that subscription on by the way, Oh you need to do that, Well that wasn't included. Now you need to upgrade. So I feel like we're just being put onto this treadmill of increased consumerism a very little return. I do believe that AI and kind of what will build off the back of it, does have the capabilities to finally build in some of these streamlines and productivity gains and promises that we've been sold forever in a day, I think, you know, like anything, though, it's still going to take a bit of bit of work and a bit of efforts to see that through. But yeah, for once I can actually say, all right, I can see what it is that you're talking about, and I can see how it's going to be applicable for the average small business owner, not a major, you know, C suite firm.

Yeah, look, it's I think we've got sold of Furfy to be honest. You know, it was like, here, take another device and then it'll make your life easier. But you've got to buy in for this subscription and that subscription on by the way, Oh you need to do that, Well that wasn't included. Now you need to upgrade. So I feel like we're just being put onto this treadmill of increased consumerism a very little return. I do believe that AI and kind of what will build off the back of it, does have the capabilities to finally build in some of these streamlines and productivity gains and promises that we've been sold forever in a day, I think, you know, like anything, though, it's still going to take a bit of bit of work and a bit of efforts to see that through. But yeah, for once I can actually say, all right, I can see what it is that you're talking about, and I can see how it's going to be applicable for the average small business owner, not a major, you know, C suite firm.

Look, it doesn't have to be a big bang thing and be overwhelming to approach. You know, you talk in there about what is your low hanging fruit? So every business will have one thing that drives them bo akers. You write in there, and what is the thing that's going to make the biggest difference. What is the really clunky process that you and your customers really hate? And you know, I'm sort of seeing that in my own business as a content creator. There are two or three bottlenecks in the process that consistently frustrate me and take a lot of time. But you know, AI is starting to change that, so I can relate to that. So what's your advice to businesses? How do you sort of systematize this process of looking at your business, looking at what AI tools are out there, and then trying to reimagine your business with the use of those tools.

Look, it doesn't have to be a big bang thing and be overwhelming to approach. You know, you talk in there about what is your low hanging fruit? So every business will have one thing that drives them bo akers. You write in there, and what is the thing that's going to make the biggest difference. What is the really clunky process that you and your customers really hate? And you know, I'm sort of seeing that in my own business as a content creator. There are two or three bottlenecks in the process that consistently frustrate me and take a lot of time. But you know, AI is starting to change that, so I can relate to that. So what's your advice to businesses? How do you sort of systematize this process of looking at your business, looking at what AI tools are out there, and then trying to reimagine your business with the use of those tools.

Hey, do you just did it? You know, it's really interesting. Every time I raise this point with someone, they the first thing they kind of go is, oh, yeah, yeah, I've got two or three things. I didn't ask for two or three things. That's the pick one. And that's what we always do as business owners. We'll go, oh, yeah, well there's this. Oh but if I could do this as well and this as well, and that's what ends up happening. We come up with two or three or five or ten and not one, and so then we go, oh, we can work on two or three, and we start to, but then we get overwhelmed because we've got two or three things to do, and so then we put it down and we don't get back to it. So that's why I come back and I'm going to say it to you going to say it to everyone. Two or three is great, pick one, pick one, and you know, even if it's down to well it's a toss up, that's okay, flip a coin, but pick one because if you get that one done, you're more likely to move on to the next thing. But if you put two or three on the table and go, here's my two or three I'm going to tackle, then I guarantee you none of them will get done. So it is really distilling it down. And if you've got a team, it's getting the team together around the table. Everybody in the team will have one thing in their role. Admin's got one thing that you know drives some bonkers. It has one thing that you know sends them around the band, marketing's got one thing that's annoying them. So it could be internally. First, it might be that the clients are constantly going, oh my gosh, Pete, I just get back to my email. Come on, man, what's going on? But there is that we always innately have that I know what it is, I just don't want to tackle it because it's been sitting there gnawing away at the back of my head for the last ten years.

Hey, do you just did it? You know, it's really interesting. Every time I raise this point with someone, they the first thing they kind of go is, oh, yeah, yeah, I've got two or three things. I didn't ask for two or three things. That's the pick one. And that's what we always do as business owners. We'll go, oh, yeah, well there's this. Oh but if I could do this as well and this as well, and that's what ends up happening. We come up with two or three or five or ten and not one, and so then we go, oh, we can work on two or three, and we start to, but then we get overwhelmed because we've got two or three things to do, and so then we put it down and we don't get back to it. So that's why I come back and I'm going to say it to you going to say it to everyone. Two or three is great, pick one, pick one, and you know, even if it's down to well it's a toss up, that's okay, flip a coin, but pick one because if you get that one done, you're more likely to move on to the next thing. But if you put two or three on the table and go, here's my two or three I'm going to tackle, then I guarantee you none of them will get done. So it is really distilling it down. And if you've got a team, it's getting the team together around the table. Everybody in the team will have one thing in their role. Admin's got one thing that you know drives some bonkers. It has one thing that you know sends them around the band, marketing's got one thing that's annoying them. So it could be internally. First, it might be that the clients are constantly going, oh my gosh, Pete, I just get back to my email. Come on, man, what's going on? But there is that we always innately have that I know what it is, I just don't want to tackle it because it's been sitting there gnawing away at the back of my head for the last ten years.

So that's good advice. You focused on the one thing. And a good thing now with these AI tools is that a lot of them are off the shelf. There's subscription base, so it doesn't have to be a massive outlay to experiment. You can, in a safe way actually point some of these tools at a problem and just experiments. He does it save the team time? Do customers like it? So it doesn't have to be a big bang thing anymore, does it? I mean likes the mid journey, open AIS, enterprise chat, cheepy even you know, a few hundred dollars a month. This doesn't have to be a massively expensive exercise, not at all.

So that's good advice. You focused on the one thing. And a good thing now with these AI tools is that a lot of them are off the shelf. There's subscription base, so it doesn't have to be a massive outlay to experiment. You can, in a safe way actually point some of these tools at a problem and just experiments. He does it save the team time? Do customers like it? So it doesn't have to be a big bang thing anymore, does it? I mean likes the mid journey, open AIS, enterprise chat, cheepy even you know, a few hundred dollars a month. This doesn't have to be a massively expensive exercise, not at all.

And often if we look for the big bang, as you say, like that's that's months or years to get that sorted. You know, I'm talking about that one little thing that you know, when we reach this point in the customer journey, I'm the bottleneck because Jen's waiting on me to send this thing. Okay, Well do you use Microsoft? Do you use Google? Because chances are Microsoft or Google already have that thing built in. If you explore what it is that you're already using, you can probably you know, plug in a workforce solution that's going to automate that bit in the middle. It's not looking for something that's going to completely change the way that everything's been working. It's looking for that one little trigger that you can just pull and go okay, well, let's done now. And as you said, particularly with small businesses, we're not looking for an enterprise solution. We want something that probably is freemium, you know. We want to give it a crack for seven days or fourteen days or whatever. And that's long enough with these tools, now, that is long enough. If you can play with it consistently for seven days or fourteen days, you can make an educated decision by the end of that time. Yes this is working. No it's not. If it's not, ditch it and move on, because that's how our bank accounts blow out at the end of every month and we're going, how are we paying five thousand dollars a month on SaaS platforms? What's going on here? Who's using that one? But if you can go no, that's not doing it, kill it, move on, find the next one, you know, and just until you get to that point where you like, hey, yep, that does it. Awesome. Now look at how do we embed that?

And often if we look for the big bang, as you say, like that's that's months or years to get that sorted. You know, I'm talking about that one little thing that you know, when we reach this point in the customer journey, I'm the bottleneck because Jen's waiting on me to send this thing. Okay, Well do you use Microsoft? Do you use Google? Because chances are Microsoft or Google already have that thing built in. If you explore what it is that you're already using, you can probably you know, plug in a workforce solution that's going to automate that bit in the middle. It's not looking for something that's going to completely change the way that everything's been working. It's looking for that one little trigger that you can just pull and go okay, well, let's done now. And as you said, particularly with small businesses, we're not looking for an enterprise solution. We want something that probably is freemium, you know. We want to give it a crack for seven days or fourteen days or whatever. And that's long enough with these tools, now, that is long enough. If you can play with it consistently for seven days or fourteen days, you can make an educated decision by the end of that time. Yes this is working. No it's not. If it's not, ditch it and move on, because that's how our bank accounts blow out at the end of every month and we're going, how are we paying five thousand dollars a month on SaaS platforms? What's going on here? Who's using that one? But if you can go no, that's not doing it, kill it, move on, find the next one, you know, and just until you get to that point where you like, hey, yep, that does it. Awesome. Now look at how do we embed that?

Yeah, and it's that how do we embed that is the crucial thing. You've actually come up with a framework. It's not specific to AI. I think it preceded the AI revolution. That's called reimagine. Talk us through this and maybe use a couple of examples, because in the book you give a couple of examples of names that listeners will know. There's Tim Tams from Ron It's great, great product, one of my favorite biscuits. So they have been reimagining their business over subsequent decades. Yeah, king to hear about Tim Tim Tams and also can for one of the biggest tech successes out of Australia, started by a woman who was not technical at all, was a graphic designer, but saw the typical thing with the startup founder saw a problem in this case with graphic design Adobe and photoshoph and all that was clunky and big learning curve, but has also been reimagining the business, including for the era of AI. So take us through your approach to reimagine and maybe use those two examples.

Yeah, and it's that how do we embed that is the crucial thing. You've actually come up with a framework. It's not specific to AI. I think it preceded the AI revolution. That's called reimagine. Talk us through this and maybe use a couple of examples, because in the book you give a couple of examples of names that listeners will know. There's Tim Tams from Ron It's great, great product, one of my favorite biscuits. So they have been reimagining their business over subsequent decades. Yeah, king to hear about Tim Tim Tams and also can for one of the biggest tech successes out of Australia, started by a woman who was not technical at all, was a graphic designer, but saw the typical thing with the startup founder saw a problem in this case with graphic design Adobe and photoshoph and all that was clunky and big learning curve, but has also been reimagining the business, including for the era of AI. So take us through your approach to reimagine and maybe use those two examples.

Yeah. So, if I you're right the concept of reimagine, really it came about because I was chatting with some clients and I was like, look, how did I get you from you know, there to there? And they were like, oh, well, we did this and we did this, and I was like okay. So then I started to look back at some of the businesses that I admire and I was like, that's really interesting. They've all kind of followed this same formula for one of a better word, and I've built it around the word reimagine because I just love the concept that we can't think about the way that life has always been. It's time that we reimagine things. Right. So if I think about Arnnce and the story that you're talking about in particular was the development of the hymn tam and that came about because they had identified that Ossies were looking for a new type of biscuit, but they wanted something that was intrinsically Australian. But they had kind of found this English biscuit that kind of you know, met the foundations of what they were looking for. So they went through this process of you know, back to the framework the relationships. They took it back to the customer. What does the customer looking for? They want something that's a little bit more than you know, just a dunkable playing biscuit. They want something with a bit of genesequa for one of the better words, you know. So then they took a look at their entire stack. So they went through that evolution process or that education process of what do we got? Where are we sitting? They identified the gap and then they mapped out, well, where do we want to get to? What does that actually look like? So they went to England they found this product and then they just started to put the pieces into place. Okay, what happens if we do this? And they did a small batch, they activated it, they put it out to market, They gathered the information and people went, oh, no, that's you know, completely what are you thinking? You know, how did you come up with veggimie? It's off the bottom of a sparrow almost, you know. And they went through this process of reiteration and reiteration until they landed on this formula that has now become known as tim Tans. But if you think about it, they could have just like, he's our one flavor of Tim TAM's happy days. But I don't know what the New Zealand supermarket shelves are like, but it is pretty much the entire biscuit shelf of a Aussie supermarket now is you know, nine six hundred and thirty two different flavors of tim Tams. Because they have really just taken the concept of reimagining off the charts. You know, then you've got your Lamington flavor and your Pinicolata and your salted caramel and you whatever. So they've now taken it to the nth degree of it has become part of their foundation that now they can just tweak it every now and again and go, Okay, here's a celebration formula, here's a footy formula, and we're going to do a small batch run and now people collect them. And so it just goes to show that as long as you keep your people and when I say relationships or people, it's not just clients. It's got to be your team as well. They're your people, your suppliers. You've got to keep the humans at the center. And as long as you keep coming back to what are they looking for? How is this making it better, worse different for them? How are our decisions impacting our people? And that was how they kept coming up with this evolution process around the Tin Tam, so I kind of love. You know that it can be applied into whatever stage or industry that you're looking at.

Yeah. So, if I you're right the concept of reimagine, really it came about because I was chatting with some clients and I was like, look, how did I get you from you know, there to there? And they were like, oh, well, we did this and we did this, and I was like okay. So then I started to look back at some of the businesses that I admire and I was like, that's really interesting. They've all kind of followed this same formula for one of a better word, and I've built it around the word reimagine because I just love the concept that we can't think about the way that life has always been. It's time that we reimagine things. Right. So if I think about Arnnce and the story that you're talking about in particular was the development of the hymn tam and that came about because they had identified that Ossies were looking for a new type of biscuit, but they wanted something that was intrinsically Australian. But they had kind of found this English biscuit that kind of you know, met the foundations of what they were looking for. So they went through this process of you know, back to the framework the relationships. They took it back to the customer. What does the customer looking for? They want something that's a little bit more than you know, just a dunkable playing biscuit. They want something with a bit of genesequa for one of the better words, you know. So then they took a look at their entire stack. So they went through that evolution process or that education process of what do we got? Where are we sitting? They identified the gap and then they mapped out, well, where do we want to get to? What does that actually look like? So they went to England they found this product and then they just started to put the pieces into place. Okay, what happens if we do this? And they did a small batch, they activated it, they put it out to market, They gathered the information and people went, oh, no, that's you know, completely what are you thinking? You know, how did you come up with veggimie? It's off the bottom of a sparrow almost, you know. And they went through this process of reiteration and reiteration until they landed on this formula that has now become known as tim Tans. But if you think about it, they could have just like, he's our one flavor of Tim TAM's happy days. But I don't know what the New Zealand supermarket shelves are like, but it is pretty much the entire biscuit shelf of a Aussie supermarket now is you know, nine six hundred and thirty two different flavors of tim Tams. Because they have really just taken the concept of reimagining off the charts. You know, then you've got your Lamington flavor and your Pinicolata and your salted caramel and you whatever. So they've now taken it to the nth degree of it has become part of their foundation that now they can just tweak it every now and again and go, Okay, here's a celebration formula, here's a footy formula, and we're going to do a small batch run and now people collect them. And so it just goes to show that as long as you keep your people and when I say relationships or people, it's not just clients. It's got to be your team as well. They're your people, your suppliers. You've got to keep the humans at the center. And as long as you keep coming back to what are they looking for? How is this making it better, worse different for them? How are our decisions impacting our people? And that was how they kept coming up with this evolution process around the Tin Tam, so I kind of love. You know that it can be applied into whatever stage or industry that you're looking at.

Yeah, and there's a brand in New Zealand, a very old brand, Woodikers Chocolate, which has gone through a similar.

Yeah, and there's a brand in New Zealand, a very old brand, Woodikers Chocolate, which has gone through a similar.

One of the best chocolates I have to say.

One of the best chocolates I have to say.

It is it is great chocolate, and they've gone through a similar over decades iterations and now have this proliferation of different flavors of chocolate, different types. They've got a high end, sort of boutique range of chocolates and not many brands get away with doing that. Obviously, iron It has been able to do it with Tim TAM's, and Whittakers has as well. And it's really that relentless focus I think, as you said, you know, on people, on customer feedback and particularly refining it based on feedback. You know, we saw the giant of chocolate Cabre's, really not do well in New Zealand. You know, Whittakers took them on and won because they listened to their customers over ethical things like using palm oil and that sort of thing.

It is it is great chocolate, and they've gone through a similar over decades iterations and now have this proliferation of different flavors of chocolate, different types. They've got a high end, sort of boutique range of chocolates and not many brands get away with doing that. Obviously, iron It has been able to do it with Tim TAM's, and Whittakers has as well. And it's really that relentless focus I think, as you said, you know, on people, on customer feedback and particularly refining it based on feedback. You know, we saw the giant of chocolate Cabre's, really not do well in New Zealand. You know, Whittakers took them on and won because they listened to their customers over ethical things like using palm oil and that sort of thing.

Exactly. Yeah, and even you know, it's it's just so interesting, isn't it. Because I remember the story of New Coke right if anyone needed a Coca Cola drinker. New Coke was classified as one of the biggest bombs that ever happened in terms of marketing. You know, they scrapped the original flavor and went to this new Coke, and people kind of go, that was a real example of something that failed, and I kind of go, actually, it's a real example of the brand going. You know, we could be arrogant and push forward with this because there's a company we made a decision. But what did they do. They went back and they listened to their client base and went, Okay, we're either going to lose our entire brand here or we fesce up and go you know what, we're here. We made a mistake. This is off the market now, and we're going back to what you want.

Exactly. Yeah, and even you know, it's it's just so interesting, isn't it. Because I remember the story of New Coke right if anyone needed a Coca Cola drinker. New Coke was classified as one of the biggest bombs that ever happened in terms of marketing. You know, they scrapped the original flavor and went to this new Coke, and people kind of go, that was a real example of something that failed, and I kind of go, actually, it's a real example of the brand going. You know, we could be arrogant and push forward with this because there's a company we made a decision. But what did they do. They went back and they listened to their client base and went, Okay, we're either going to lose our entire brand here or we fesce up and go you know what, we're here. We made a mistake. This is off the market now, and we're going back to what you want.

In the case of Canva, I mean, this is probably an older business than some people would realize. Back in twenty ten, I think it was. Melanie Perkins was a graphic design t shirt only nineteen years of age, but was really frustrated with graphic design software at the time and wanted a really simple, inclusive platform. Drag and dropped templates, all of that sort of stuff. So built that it turned into a raging success, hundreds of millions of customers, a listed company, multi billion dollar valuation. They've integrated AI, but they didn't really make a big song and dance about it, did they. It was more like a silent integration behind the scenes because they actually realized it's not about waiving the AI flag. That means nothing to customers. How is it actually going to improve their experience on the platform. And we'll only do it if we can achieve that.

In the case of Canva, I mean, this is probably an older business than some people would realize. Back in twenty ten, I think it was. Melanie Perkins was a graphic design t shirt only nineteen years of age, but was really frustrated with graphic design software at the time and wanted a really simple, inclusive platform. Drag and dropped templates, all of that sort of stuff. So built that it turned into a raging success, hundreds of millions of customers, a listed company, multi billion dollar valuation. They've integrated AI, but they didn't really make a big song and dance about it, did they. It was more like a silent integration behind the scenes because they actually realized it's not about waiving the AI flag. That means nothing to customers. How is it actually going to improve their experience on the platform. And we'll only do it if we can achieve that.

Yeah. Absolutely, And what I love about the Canvas story, you know again, it comes back to they keep their clients close, They keep their users close. It always everything they do needs to be How does this improve their experience? How does this make their life easier? How does it save their time? How does it you know, whatever that goal is. But the thing when they integrated AI that I find really interesting is they were after specific wins. So you're right, they didn't come out and go, oh, we're now all about AI. They just come out and went, oh, now we've got a background remover, and look what happens if you click here. I don't care that that's AI. I care that now I don't have to figure out how I'm going to remove you know, that random mirror behind me because I'm dialing in from a hotel room today. That's what I care about. I don't care that, you know my words can now be in a circle with neon around them. I care that I don't have to figure out how to make my words in a circle, and oh I can turn it into neon. They like a customer doesn't care that that's AI. So I love that. Camber just kind of went, Okay, we're hearing you. This is what's important. It's taking you way too long to be able to dee bet your photo or to cut back, round out, or to put an example of what a product's going to look like on a coffee mug, or to see how it could look if we rewrote that particular sentence or inserted a photo of a dog on a surfboard there. You want to just be able to do it, call it whatever you like. We just need to make it happen. I love that because a lot of companies, you know, as you rightly said, Peter, they're very We've got AI and we'd like to tell you about our latest AI and it's about me. And here I am with my AII product, and you need to know about this because we've spent hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars in production of doing this and we're fantastic. I don't care what's in it for me, like what's in it for the client. So I love the companies that come about it that way.

Yeah. Absolutely, And what I love about the Canvas story, you know again, it comes back to they keep their clients close, They keep their users close. It always everything they do needs to be How does this improve their experience? How does this make their life easier? How does it save their time? How does it you know, whatever that goal is. But the thing when they integrated AI that I find really interesting is they were after specific wins. So you're right, they didn't come out and go, oh, we're now all about AI. They just come out and went, oh, now we've got a background remover, and look what happens if you click here. I don't care that that's AI. I care that now I don't have to figure out how I'm going to remove you know, that random mirror behind me because I'm dialing in from a hotel room today. That's what I care about. I don't care that, you know my words can now be in a circle with neon around them. I care that I don't have to figure out how to make my words in a circle, and oh I can turn it into neon. They like a customer doesn't care that that's AI. So I love that. Camber just kind of went, Okay, we're hearing you. This is what's important. It's taking you way too long to be able to dee bet your photo or to cut back, round out, or to put an example of what a product's going to look like on a coffee mug, or to see how it could look if we rewrote that particular sentence or inserted a photo of a dog on a surfboard there. You want to just be able to do it, call it whatever you like. We just need to make it happen. I love that because a lot of companies, you know, as you rightly said, Peter, they're very We've got AI and we'd like to tell you about our latest AI and it's about me. And here I am with my AII product, and you need to know about this because we've spent hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars in production of doing this and we're fantastic. I don't care what's in it for me, like what's in it for the client. So I love the companies that come about it that way.

Yeah, and as you said, some of those features, we don't care whether they're done by AI. We just want a better experience to do it faster, more efficiently. I guess some of the low hanging fruit for a lot of New Zealand businesses will be what you referenced earlier, why don't you just respond to my email in a timely fashion? And they'll be looking to AI to triage their inbox and customer inquiries and that sort of thing. But how do you deal with with with that? You know, customers tell us they love the human touch, the acceptance factor of in customer service off AI getting in there to try and streamline things. How much acceptance after is it? And how do you broach that with customers. We've seen customer service chatbots not do very well so far because it frustrates people they're not good enough. Maybe the next iteration, the so called AI agents will be able to have a more naturalistic conversation and a useful conversation. But the generation up till now really have not been well received. So how do you keep that human touch but integrate AI into the customer experience transparency?

Yeah, and as you said, some of those features, we don't care whether they're done by AI. We just want a better experience to do it faster, more efficiently. I guess some of the low hanging fruit for a lot of New Zealand businesses will be what you referenced earlier, why don't you just respond to my email in a timely fashion? And they'll be looking to AI to triage their inbox and customer inquiries and that sort of thing. But how do you deal with with with that? You know, customers tell us they love the human touch, the acceptance factor of in customer service off AI getting in there to try and streamline things. How much acceptance after is it? And how do you broach that with customers. We've seen customer service chatbots not do very well so far because it frustrates people they're not good enough. Maybe the next iteration, the so called AI agents will be able to have a more naturalistic conversation and a useful conversation. But the generation up till now really have not been well received. So how do you keep that human touch but integrate AI into the customer experience transparency?

I think treaty clients like you know you've always treated them, and if you actually value them and enjoy working with them and all the rest of it, then I think, you know, we're so nervous about making changes because how is this going to impact to whatever? But you know, most of our clients I've just found if you sit down with people and go so hey, Peter, you've kind of expressed this, and thank you for that, I really like it. Listen with you know, thinking about introducing this as a way to you know, kind of close that down. What do you reckon if I put you on a beta group? Would that be okay? Can you give me some feedback on what's working what's not working? Because I'm not going to release this to everyone until I know that, you know, my core group of people are okay. You find people go like oh mate, that's amazing, Like, yeah, let me, what do you need? What do you, what do you need? How can I help? Because you're bringing them in, You're bringing them into the inner sanctum of like, you know, hey, you brought this up as a problem for me, and thank you. Help me solve it. How do I make my business better? For you to work with me? How to make my business better? That you're going to say, you know, George, you really need to work with Tracy, Like you're not going to get a better experience. It's the authenticity thing. That's what we're looking for now, right, Like we don't I find the people that I work with, their clients don't care if it's me or if it's AI, as long as the problem is resolved. They care when the problem is escalated or it's not addressed, or I'm ignored or I'm belittled or you know whatever. But if I'm very upfront and go we're going through a process of trialing AI for X y Z. We don't know how it's going to go. Would be great, might be a horrible, you know, a horrible burning failure, but you need to let us know. So I think now's the perfect opportunity to build up that loyalty and that emotional bank account with our clients and kind of go come along with us. We don't know if this is going to work, but why don't you learn with us, help us out, and we'll teach you along the way with what's going on and certainly what we're seeing out of the EU, you know, the clients are voting with their dollars and brand loyalty is exceptional with those organizations that are being very, very transparent around how they're utilizing AI and how their business values are now transitioning and aligning with AI to ensure that their clients know exactly what's going on.

I think treaty clients like you know you've always treated them, and if you actually value them and enjoy working with them and all the rest of it, then I think, you know, we're so nervous about making changes because how is this going to impact to whatever? But you know, most of our clients I've just found if you sit down with people and go so hey, Peter, you've kind of expressed this, and thank you for that, I really like it. Listen with you know, thinking about introducing this as a way to you know, kind of close that down. What do you reckon if I put you on a beta group? Would that be okay? Can you give me some feedback on what's working what's not working? Because I'm not going to release this to everyone until I know that, you know, my core group of people are okay. You find people go like oh mate, that's amazing, Like, yeah, let me, what do you need? What do you, what do you need? How can I help? Because you're bringing them in, You're bringing them into the inner sanctum of like, you know, hey, you brought this up as a problem for me, and thank you. Help me solve it. How do I make my business better? For you to work with me? How to make my business better? That you're going to say, you know, George, you really need to work with Tracy, Like you're not going to get a better experience. It's the authenticity thing. That's what we're looking for now, right, Like we don't I find the people that I work with, their clients don't care if it's me or if it's AI, as long as the problem is resolved. They care when the problem is escalated or it's not addressed, or I'm ignored or I'm belittled or you know whatever. But if I'm very upfront and go we're going through a process of trialing AI for X y Z. We don't know how it's going to go. Would be great, might be a horrible, you know, a horrible burning failure, but you need to let us know. So I think now's the perfect opportunity to build up that loyalty and that emotional bank account with our clients and kind of go come along with us. We don't know if this is going to work, but why don't you learn with us, help us out, and we'll teach you along the way with what's going on and certainly what we're seeing out of the EU, you know, the clients are voting with their dollars and brand loyalty is exceptional with those organizations that are being very, very transparent around how they're utilizing AI and how their business values are now transitioning and aligning with AI to ensure that their clients know exactly what's going on.

You're talk in the book about sort of AI governance and has been you know, this is just whole conferences in our run on this and lots of well paid lawyers and consultants are working on it. And I can understand that for the top end of town, you know, the big companies, they need probably a team or a chief AI officer to oversee all of this. But for small and medium sized businesses, they're probably thinking, how do I even approach this?

You're talk in the book about sort of AI governance and has been you know, this is just whole conferences in our run on this and lots of well paid lawyers and consultants are working on it. And I can understand that for the top end of town, you know, the big companies, they need probably a team or a chief AI officer to oversee all of this. But for small and medium sized businesses, they're probably thinking, how do I even approach this?

Now?

Now?

There is governance built into some of the platforms that they're using. To some extent they are there's transparency, there, there's security around these cloud platforms, as long as you not in putting stuff into large language models that is going to be used to improve those large language models. I think businesses understand the risks around that. But for the smaller sized businesses in Australia and New Zealand, what's your advice to approaching governance making sure that you can experiment, but do it safely and not really upset your customers by inappropriately using their data.

There is governance built into some of the platforms that they're using. To some extent they are there's transparency, there, there's security around these cloud platforms, as long as you not in putting stuff into large language models that is going to be used to improve those large language models. I think businesses understand the risks around that. But for the smaller sized businesses in Australia and New Zealand, what's your advice to approaching governance making sure that you can experiment, but do it safely and not really upset your customers by inappropriately using their data.

Yeah, and look, the data is such a big thing, isn't it, Because we've gotten so used to trading data for convenience. But it's when we're trading our clients data without their knowledge that it becomes a problem. So again I think it's about getting all the people at the table and just starting the conversation. The really important thing to know is really nobody has the answers now, but we've got to start having the conversations, you know, So don't expect that you're going to walk out of a thirty minute them meeting or a one hour team meeting as well. Right, that's done, and you know next week we'll be talking about this. You're going to be talking about this for the next three years. So put something in pencil doesn't even have to be in pen because it's going to change. But you need to start those conversations, and you need to be thinking about, Okay, do your team members have their own phones or are they using company phones? Okay, well they bring their own phones. Okay, Well can they use chat GPT on their own phones during business hours? Because what happens if they open up open AI Chat GPT or whatever one that they use. Because you know, I'm swamped at work and i just want to get this email smashed out, So I'm just going to quickly write it on chat GPT and then flick it across to the work saying. You know, if you haven't at least had that conversation, there are no guard rails. So much like you know, only a few years ago, companies were suddenly going, oh okay, we probably need a social media policy. You know, get one of the ms to write you large language model, get you to get it to write you an AI policy if that's what you need right now, and say I am in this industry. You know, I'm a mortgage broker. Based on the New Zealand Guidelines for AI Ethical Usage and blah blah blah. I have a team of XYZ, they have their own devices. We use Microsoft. We use this draft me an AI policy. That can begin the conversation with the team, because at least then you've got a starting point to go, okay, well how does everyone feel about this? And then they know that if they do use their own device to create something and it gets put through a work system, well there could be repercussions. You know, they at least know. Okay, I'm probably going to have to answer for that one, and I might get a conversation with Karen from HR about you know why we can't do that anymore. But we need to start the conversations. That's the really big thing right now, because going away, it's only going to become more and more prevalent.

Yeah, and look, the data is such a big thing, isn't it, Because we've gotten so used to trading data for convenience. But it's when we're trading our clients data without their knowledge that it becomes a problem. So again I think it's about getting all the people at the table and just starting the conversation. The really important thing to know is really nobody has the answers now, but we've got to start having the conversations, you know, So don't expect that you're going to walk out of a thirty minute them meeting or a one hour team meeting as well. Right, that's done, and you know next week we'll be talking about this. You're going to be talking about this for the next three years. So put something in pencil doesn't even have to be in pen because it's going to change. But you need to start those conversations, and you need to be thinking about, Okay, do your team members have their own phones or are they using company phones? Okay, well they bring their own phones. Okay, Well can they use chat GPT on their own phones during business hours? Because what happens if they open up open AI Chat GPT or whatever one that they use. Because you know, I'm swamped at work and i just want to get this email smashed out, So I'm just going to quickly write it on chat GPT and then flick it across to the work saying. You know, if you haven't at least had that conversation, there are no guard rails. So much like you know, only a few years ago, companies were suddenly going, oh okay, we probably need a social media policy. You know, get one of the ms to write you large language model, get you to get it to write you an AI policy if that's what you need right now, and say I am in this industry. You know, I'm a mortgage broker. Based on the New Zealand Guidelines for AI Ethical Usage and blah blah blah. I have a team of XYZ, they have their own devices. We use Microsoft. We use this draft me an AI policy. That can begin the conversation with the team, because at least then you've got a starting point to go, okay, well how does everyone feel about this? And then they know that if they do use their own device to create something and it gets put through a work system, well there could be repercussions. You know, they at least know. Okay, I'm probably going to have to answer for that one, and I might get a conversation with Karen from HR about you know why we can't do that anymore. But we need to start the conversations. That's the really big thing right now, because going away, it's only going to become more and more prevalent.

Finally, Tracy, towards the end of the book, you look into the future and we're in the agentic AI era now, which is really going from chatbots dispensing information to chatbots being able to do things on our behalf. Take action with approved parameters could be a purchase decision or approval or processing information based on certain rules, we will okay this or not. So you've got that you talk about multimodal AI, which we've just seen Google VO three, which is you know, audio video sync together. It used to be sort of separate tools would do all of that. So one AI that does sort of text video coding everything. They're getting much better. This is all great, and you said it's going to keep changing. But are we on the cusp finally of seeing the promised productivity gains? Do you think?

Finally, Tracy, towards the end of the book, you look into the future and we're in the agentic AI era now, which is really going from chatbots dispensing information to chatbots being able to do things on our behalf. Take action with approved parameters could be a purchase decision or approval or processing information based on certain rules, we will okay this or not. So you've got that you talk about multimodal AI, which we've just seen Google VO three, which is you know, audio video sync together. It used to be sort of separate tools would do all of that. So one AI that does sort of text video coding everything. They're getting much better. This is all great, and you said it's going to keep changing. But are we on the cusp finally of seeing the promised productivity gains? Do you think?

Absolutely? Absolutely? So. I'm already working with people. We're putting agentic agents in still with a lot of human oversight, I will preface that. And these things are never going to be as bad as they are right now. You know, we're still kind of hurting a bunch of toddlers running around bouncing off walls, and you know, at Jim Brew's right now, they're fueled up on red cordial and keen to go. But you know, I was working with someone the other day and she was saying to me she has to get up at like eleven eleven, say, up to like eleven pm to one am to ring all of these places in Europe to organize things before the CEO flies, you know, out to do the meetings. And I was like, okay, that's interesting. So what if. And then we looked at this agendic agent that could ring out and make all of the restaurant bookings right, and all she's got to do is verify yes, they've been made, Yes they're correct, all the rest of it at eight o'clock and seven o'clock in the morning when she gets into the office like that would say hours a week. Perfect. Let's try that then, but let's try that in isolation and know that that is working before we then put the next step in place. So it's it's we've got to have the human and the loop right now. We can't let these things run off fueled on red cordial and go bouncing into walls. That's where the trouble's going to happen. We still need, you know, the Peter Griffins of the world to be sitting around going we didn't want a table for six we wanted a table for sixteen. You know, let's check that back in again. But again, they're three, you know, they're six months old, they're twelve months old. Depending on how all these software systems are, they're never going to be this bad again. So if we're not figuring out what we can do with them now, We're cooked in twelve months time.

Absolutely? Absolutely? So. I'm already working with people. We're putting agentic agents in still with a lot of human oversight, I will preface that. And these things are never going to be as bad as they are right now. You know, we're still kind of hurting a bunch of toddlers running around bouncing off walls, and you know, at Jim Brew's right now, they're fueled up on red cordial and keen to go. But you know, I was working with someone the other day and she was saying to me she has to get up at like eleven eleven, say, up to like eleven pm to one am to ring all of these places in Europe to organize things before the CEO flies, you know, out to do the meetings. And I was like, okay, that's interesting. So what if. And then we looked at this agendic agent that could ring out and make all of the restaurant bookings right, and all she's got to do is verify yes, they've been made, Yes they're correct, all the rest of it at eight o'clock and seven o'clock in the morning when she gets into the office like that would say hours a week. Perfect. Let's try that then, but let's try that in isolation and know that that is working before we then put the next step in place. So it's it's we've got to have the human and the loop right now. We can't let these things run off fueled on red cordial and go bouncing into walls. That's where the trouble's going to happen. We still need, you know, the Peter Griffins of the world to be sitting around going we didn't want a table for six we wanted a table for sixteen. You know, let's check that back in again. But again, they're three, you know, they're six months old, they're twelve months old. Depending on how all these software systems are, they're never going to be this bad again. So if we're not figuring out what we can do with them now, We're cooked in twelve months time.

Good advice, Tracy, thanks so much for coming on. The book is AI You Reimagining Business? Will put links to where kiwis combine in stores.

Good advice, Tracy, thanks so much for coming on. The book is AI You Reimagining Business? Will put links to where kiwis combine in stores.

Here.

Here.

Have you got an audiobook coming?

Have you got an audiobook coming?

It will be coming. I have had a Nasti cole, so I have to wait for my radio voice to come back.

It will be coming. I have had a Nasti cole, so I have to wait for my radio voice to come back.

Well, you know, I think you've got such a great personality, Tracy. I think that will be a great way to consume the book. But thanks so much, lots of great ideas there and as I say, really practical stuff for our small and mid sized businesses. So good luck with the launch of the book, and thanks so much for coming on. Thanks Peter, I'll see you in end zed looking forward to it. That's all for this episode of the Business of Tech. A big thank you to Tracy Sheen for joining us and sharing her insights on how small and medium sized businesses can cut through the AI hype and make real practical gains. If you want to dive deeper, Tracy's new book is called AI and You Reimagine Business. It's available now in paperback and digital form. There are links to where you can find it in the show notes. Go to the podcast section at Business deesk dot co dot nz to find those. I think it's a really great read for anyone looking to future proof their business and take the first confidence steps into the world of AI. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with your network. Next week, I'm joined by Mike Callender, CEO of two degrees and Steve Yukovich, CEO of Kiwibank to delve into the results of two degrees latest Shaping Business study. It's highlighted the growing sense of optimism in our business community. You know, businesses say they want to invest more. They feel they're going to grow revenue in the next year. They're interested in putting more money into technology, including AI. But is it premature to say we're on the road to recovery. Are we finally turning a corner? Well, let's find out next Thursday with another episode off the Business of Tech. I'll catch you then,

Well, you know, I think you've got such a great personality, Tracy. I think that will be a great way to consume the book. But thanks so much, lots of great ideas there and as I say, really practical stuff for our small and mid sized businesses. So good luck with the launch of the book, and thanks so much for coming on. Thanks Peter, I'll see you in end zed looking forward to it. That's all for this episode of the Business of Tech. A big thank you to Tracy Sheen for joining us and sharing her insights on how small and medium sized businesses can cut through the AI hype and make real practical gains. If you want to dive deeper, Tracy's new book is called AI and You Reimagine Business. It's available now in paperback and digital form. There are links to where you can find it in the show notes. Go to the podcast section at Business deesk dot co dot nz to find those. I think it's a really great read for anyone looking to future proof their business and take the first confidence steps into the world of AI. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with your network. Next week, I'm joined by Mike Callender, CEO of two degrees and Steve Yukovich, CEO of Kiwibank to delve into the results of two degrees latest Shaping Business study. It's highlighted the growing sense of optimism in our business community. You know, businesses say they want to invest more. They feel they're going to grow revenue in the next year. They're interested in putting more money into technology, including AI. But is it premature to say we're on the road to recovery. Are we finally turning a corner? Well, let's find out next Thursday with another episode off the Business of Tech. I'll catch you then,