Hud We Maori five G.

Hud We Maori five G.

A wiki to man that.

A wiki to man that.

Was TV and Z Takarare presenter Scotti Morrison five years ago announcing the news that a short term allocation of radio spectrum for five G services was being made to MARI. It turned out to be a stepping stone to a more significant agreement between the Crown and MARI signed in twenty twenty two that granted MARI a fifty megahertz slice of spectrum allocated to five G telecommunications services. Not only that, but a twenty percent share of all future commercial radio spectrum allocations. It was a huge win for MARI after decades of making the case that radio waves were a tanga and essential to preserving Maori language and culture. This week on the Business of Tech powered by two's Business Anthony Royle, one of the key figures that helped secure that historic win from MARI, on the innovation in five G services that the MARI led organization to a Taya is now undertaking using that spectrum allocation.

Was TV and Z Takarare presenter Scotti Morrison five years ago announcing the news that a short term allocation of radio spectrum for five G services was being made to MARI. It turned out to be a stepping stone to a more significant agreement between the Crown and MARI signed in twenty twenty two that granted MARI a fifty megahertz slice of spectrum allocated to five G telecommunications services. Not only that, but a twenty percent share of all future commercial radio spectrum allocations. It was a huge win for MARI after decades of making the case that radio waves were a tanga and essential to preserving Maori language and culture. This week on the Business of Tech powered by two's Business Anthony Royle, one of the key figures that helped secure that historic win from MARI, on the innovation in five G services that the MARI led organization to a Taya is now undertaking using that spectrum allocation.

We are not going to go and try and compete and do another two degrees. We've done their job. What we want to do now is look at some of the other ways that we can help improve productive out the safety using virus technologies in a particular g wils, so that was our starting point.

We are not going to go and try and compete and do another two degrees. We've done their job. What we want to do now is look at some of the other ways that we can help improve productive out the safety using virus technologies in a particular g wils, so that was our starting point.

Anthony joins me shortly on episode ninety of the Business of Tech, and my first episode without Ben More as my co pilot. Ben sadly departed Business Desk this week, but don't worry, he'll be hopefully back as a guest from time to time, as he's staying very much in the world of tech. But I'll be flying solo from here on in, bringing you each week interviews with some of our leading thinkers from the world of tech and business. My premise is pretty simple. Really, New Zealand isn't in a great place when you look at some of the big economic and social indicators and how they are trending. But when you scratch the surface, and this particularly goes for the tech world, I'm so passionate about There's so much good innovative stuff going on here. We have a lot of smart people trying to make our country a better place, and I think their perspectives can inspire us all to do a lot better. That certainly applies to this week's guest, Anthony Royle. In a few short years, Anthony has led the organization to ar Taya formerly the Interim Mari Spectrum Commission from startup to late last year signing a deal to build a country's first commercial private five G network for Wellington's Center Port. It's pretty incredible progress and it's led to the creation of jobs and crucially opportunities for MARI to have careers in the telecommunications and tech space that otherwise wouldn't have existed. This really all stems from the Waitangi Tribunal decades ago recognizing claims to radio spectrum, and then a valiant effort by many people in Maridom, Anthony Royal among them, to convince the government to accept those claims and share the rights to radio spectrum with MARI. So here's Anthony with a bit of background on that big win for MARI with the radio spectrum allocation and what his plans are for five gen. Anthony Royal Kura, Welcome to the Business of Tech. I've wanted to get you on for quite some time because I'm just really excited about the work you're doing at Tuateya. What was the Intra Mari Spectrum Commission looking after this amazing Tana on behalf of MARI, the five G spectrum allocation and some really cool stuff that you have been doing and have plans for with that spectrum on behalf of MARI for the betterment of MARI. I just wanted to start out really about your background, a long career in it and in MARI governance and lots of organizations EWEI based organizations and trusts, as well as the likes of Tapuna Carker back in the day Two Degrees you're on the board of and there's a connection to this journey you've been on it. Two Degrees is very much pied off. We'll talk about as well. But I think way back in the nineties you started out what as an electrical engineer.

Anthony joins me shortly on episode ninety of the Business of Tech, and my first episode without Ben More as my co pilot. Ben sadly departed Business Desk this week, but don't worry, he'll be hopefully back as a guest from time to time, as he's staying very much in the world of tech. But I'll be flying solo from here on in, bringing you each week interviews with some of our leading thinkers from the world of tech and business. My premise is pretty simple. Really, New Zealand isn't in a great place when you look at some of the big economic and social indicators and how they are trending. But when you scratch the surface, and this particularly goes for the tech world, I'm so passionate about There's so much good innovative stuff going on here. We have a lot of smart people trying to make our country a better place, and I think their perspectives can inspire us all to do a lot better. That certainly applies to this week's guest, Anthony Royle. In a few short years, Anthony has led the organization to ar Taya formerly the Interim Mari Spectrum Commission from startup to late last year signing a deal to build a country's first commercial private five G network for Wellington's Center Port. It's pretty incredible progress and it's led to the creation of jobs and crucially opportunities for MARI to have careers in the telecommunications and tech space that otherwise wouldn't have existed. This really all stems from the Waitangi Tribunal decades ago recognizing claims to radio spectrum, and then a valiant effort by many people in Maridom, Anthony Royal among them, to convince the government to accept those claims and share the rights to radio spectrum with MARI. So here's Anthony with a bit of background on that big win for MARI with the radio spectrum allocation and what his plans are for five gen. Anthony Royal Kura, Welcome to the Business of Tech. I've wanted to get you on for quite some time because I'm just really excited about the work you're doing at Tuateya. What was the Intra Mari Spectrum Commission looking after this amazing Tana on behalf of MARI, the five G spectrum allocation and some really cool stuff that you have been doing and have plans for with that spectrum on behalf of MARI for the betterment of MARI. I just wanted to start out really about your background, a long career in it and in MARI governance and lots of organizations EWEI based organizations and trusts, as well as the likes of Tapuna Carker back in the day Two Degrees you're on the board of and there's a connection to this journey you've been on it. Two Degrees is very much pied off. We'll talk about as well. But I think way back in the nineties you started out what as an electrical engineer.

That's right. Iing to engineering school in Auckland back then, because the engineering schools were very different. It was very male orientated and to a very very few Mary in fact, I think it was one other Marty in the engineering school at the time. That was where I built my career. I always wanted to be engineered. I don't know why, because my family comes from a family of educationalists and of course you never get away from that. I've found that through my career as education really wasn't my thing. I've found myself being involved in education, knowlogy and mari and where those three things meet, that's the kind of sweet spot for me. So I'm from Nati tamter kitotongav So I spent a lot of time with Nati Rocoa and based out of Watucky with Colla and many of the leaders that came from from that area, including one of my mentors who was Fatarani Winata who was a professor at Victoria University for Iran ran to Aranka was the first CEO first to Monkey. I'm also from Napoleon and north from my grandmother's side. I'm from the south side of the Hook young and then from Nati Tama Nati Fenoga in the Hierarchy area, which is where I'm now spending a lot of my time. I chair Nati Tamterra, which has interests all the way through the Orchand area all the way down to Katikati and around, particularly predominant in the huraky Planes and Coromandal areas. So I do a lot of that ebee work as well. But you know, the technology spaces where I've kind of sped my time.

That's right. Iing to engineering school in Auckland back then, because the engineering schools were very different. It was very male orientated and to a very very few Mary in fact, I think it was one other Marty in the engineering school at the time. That was where I built my career. I always wanted to be engineered. I don't know why, because my family comes from a family of educationalists and of course you never get away from that. I've found that through my career as education really wasn't my thing. I've found myself being involved in education, knowlogy and mari and where those three things meet, that's the kind of sweet spot for me. So I'm from Nati tamter kitotongav So I spent a lot of time with Nati Rocoa and based out of Watucky with Colla and many of the leaders that came from from that area, including one of my mentors who was Fatarani Winata who was a professor at Victoria University for Iran ran to Aranka was the first CEO first to Monkey. I'm also from Napoleon and north from my grandmother's side. I'm from the south side of the Hook young and then from Nati Tama Nati Fenoga in the Hierarchy area, which is where I'm now spending a lot of my time. I chair Nati Tamterra, which has interests all the way through the Orchand area all the way down to Katikati and around, particularly predominant in the huraky Planes and Coromandal areas. So I do a lot of that ebee work as well. But you know, the technology spaces where I've kind of sped my time.

You've had a wide variety of roles.

You've had a wide variety of roles.

Anthony.

Anthony.

You started out looking after the paper machines at the Kinley paper Mill, then Tasman Paper Mill as well. You spent a number of years in Asia installing computers and factories. You came home really sort of retrained in it. Got involved in the first web projects for the New Zealand Dairy Board before it became Fonterra.

You started out looking after the paper machines at the Kinley paper Mill, then Tasman Paper Mill as well. You spent a number of years in Asia installing computers and factories. You came home really sort of retrained in it. Got involved in the first web projects for the New Zealand Dairy Board before it became Fonterra.

We had this new thing called the Web and we implemented the very first international Internet that connected all of the sites around around the world. So, you know, those were really good foundational times developing a skill set, and then I decided to then turn my attention to taking those skills and using them for the betterment for Mari, and so did a lot of work with FAATENGI went out there and building to Angopol. We implemented in two thousand and the very first program whereby it was composed through for every single student that came to the waring to have a computer, and if they didn't have one, we gave them one and we gave them training. And as a result of that program, we got computers into the homes of thousands of mary across the country. We were looking to normalize the use of technology, and to this day it's to on oco now has We did another project which is about in the early days of online learning, we've said, well, this is probably going to be the future. So we invested quite a bit of time and effort into thinking about how best to do that with sort of products, and we deployed one of the very first Moodal implementations in New Zealand that's still running today and in fact has a massive number of online students now. So fucking you went out. It was a visionary in that area. He knew that we needed to do some stuff for the future and he let us get on with it. I've been very fortunate to have been involved in many of those projects which were very forward.

We had this new thing called the Web and we implemented the very first international Internet that connected all of the sites around around the world. So, you know, those were really good foundational times developing a skill set, and then I decided to then turn my attention to taking those skills and using them for the betterment for Mari, and so did a lot of work with FAATENGI went out there and building to Angopol. We implemented in two thousand and the very first program whereby it was composed through for every single student that came to the waring to have a computer, and if they didn't have one, we gave them one and we gave them training. And as a result of that program, we got computers into the homes of thousands of mary across the country. We were looking to normalize the use of technology, and to this day it's to on oco now has We did another project which is about in the early days of online learning, we've said, well, this is probably going to be the future. So we invested quite a bit of time and effort into thinking about how best to do that with sort of products, and we deployed one of the very first Moodal implementations in New Zealand that's still running today and in fact has a massive number of online students now. So fucking you went out. It was a visionary in that area. He knew that we needed to do some stuff for the future and he let us get on with it. I've been very fortunate to have been involved in many of those projects which were very forward.

Thinking, Yeah, and tackling that issue that we still have to be honest, off the digital divide is inequity there around access to things like broadband devices, online learning platforms. So you were directly addressing some of those things early on.

Thinking, Yeah, and tackling that issue that we still have to be honest, off the digital divide is inequity there around access to things like broadband devices, online learning platforms. So you were directly addressing some of those things early on.

Yeah, Like in two thousand when we got our program up and running computers. The s problem was that many of our students come from way around the country. Well none of the ISPs would take them on, mostly because you need to have credit cards, and most of our students were pretty transient. They were in rental situations, and there was no way for us to get our students onto an ICP. So we said, we're going to create our own That's what we did. We created our own ISP and these are back in the days we used modems over phone lines. We created our own health desk and we trained up people to be on the end of the line to give people a hand. You know, back in those days, that was pretty innovative to start up your own ISP. These days, it's relatively straightforward to do that.

Yeah, Like in two thousand when we got our program up and running computers. The s problem was that many of our students come from way around the country. Well none of the ISPs would take them on, mostly because you need to have credit cards, and most of our students were pretty transient. They were in rental situations, and there was no way for us to get our students onto an ICP. So we said, we're going to create our own That's what we did. We created our own ISP and these are back in the days we used modems over phone lines. We created our own health desk and we trained up people to be on the end of the line to give people a hand. You know, back in those days, that was pretty innovative to start up your own ISP. These days, it's relatively straightforward to do that.

Well, there's a whole wholesale sort of network now with obviously with Corus, you're basically wholesale in fiber access. It was a lot more difficult back then, negotiating literally with Telecom who had the monopoly on the copper lines.

Well, there's a whole wholesale sort of network now with obviously with Corus, you're basically wholesale in fiber access. It was a lot more difficult back then, negotiating literally with Telecom who had the monopoly on the copper lines.

That's right. We even put our own fiber into all teching. We ran a big fiber ring. We've got some guys and we dug a big fiber ring in me. Of course that got over built by of course we weren't able to come to an agreement. Said we said, look at these fiber were in the ground we've got ducks, We've got the whole lot. But anyway, they went that keen on the idea. But that's the kind of thinking that we were engaged. It was exciting, it was risky, and it was you know, this be the future is So that's what we should be doing, is thinking about what's the next thing? Where are we're going? And yeah, yeah, I think we all know what the next big thing is. The question is how do you hark it?

That's right. We even put our own fiber into all teching. We ran a big fiber ring. We've got some guys and we dug a big fiber ring in me. Of course that got over built by of course we weren't able to come to an agreement. Said we said, look at these fiber were in the ground we've got ducks, We've got the whole lot. But anyway, they went that keen on the idea. But that's the kind of thinking that we were engaged. It was exciting, it was risky, and it was you know, this be the future is So that's what we should be doing, is thinking about what's the next thing? Where are we're going? And yeah, yeah, I think we all know what the next big thing is. The question is how do you hark it?

And while all of this great work was going on, it was really, I guess, a bit of a struggle to recognize Mari's rights to spectrum. Radio spectrum a really valuable commodity that telecommunications providers and broadcasters rely on to supply those services. Take us through sort of the history of this. It goes back to probably the seventies and eighties, but that real struggled to have that right recognized legally. That led to in twenty twenty two, and you were a big part of making this happen. That recognition of Mary's rights enshrined in legislation, resulting in MARI collectively being given a chunk of five G spectrum and the rights to twenty percent of future commercial spectrum as well, huge huge development there. Take us back to the history of that. Where does it begin, Well.

And while all of this great work was going on, it was really, I guess, a bit of a struggle to recognize Mari's rights to spectrum. Radio spectrum a really valuable commodity that telecommunications providers and broadcasters rely on to supply those services. Take us through sort of the history of this. It goes back to probably the seventies and eighties, but that real struggled to have that right recognized legally. That led to in twenty twenty two, and you were a big part of making this happen. That recognition of Mary's rights enshrined in legislation, resulting in MARI collectively being given a chunk of five G spectrum and the rights to twenty percent of future commercial spectrum as well, huge huge development there. Take us back to the history of that. Where does it begin, Well.

It begins well before my time, because Mary been working on this for decades. The argument was linked to survival of our language. There was a lot of work to try and encourage the use of Telli or Mary, and one of the tools that was required to make that happen was being able to have access to broadcast services, both in terms of radio and television. The ability for people to hear the language in a normalized situation over our broadcast services was pretty fundamental and that was what the argument was about. And of course the government was not keen at all on handing out licenses. After a lot of arguments and discussion and negotiation through some AM radio stations that were set up and some of them run to the.

It begins well before my time, because Mary been working on this for decades. The argument was linked to survival of our language. There was a lot of work to try and encourage the use of Telli or Mary, and one of the tools that was required to make that happen was being able to have access to broadcast services, both in terms of radio and television. The ability for people to hear the language in a normalized situation over our broadcast services was pretty fundamental and that was what the argument was about. And of course the government was not keen at all on handing out licenses. After a lot of arguments and discussion and negotiation through some AM radio stations that were set up and some of them run to the.

Day and those AM licenses back then, that was really the start of EE radio, which, as you say, is still going strong decades later. I think there was also an effort at the time for Mari to host the third TV station that ultimately became TV three of totally commercial cam List venture back in the early nineties, but there was obviously a concerted effort it didn't work, I think for financial reason for Mari to be that third TV channel.

Day and those AM licenses back then, that was really the start of EE radio, which, as you say, is still going strong decades later. I think there was also an effort at the time for Mari to host the third TV station that ultimately became TV three of totally commercial cam List venture back in the early nineties, but there was obviously a concerted effort it didn't work, I think for financial reason for Mari to be that third TV channel.

Yeah. Look, there's been a lot of barriers placed in the way over time, not the least of which is having the financial capital to be able to pull some of the stuff off, because you know, producing media is not a cheap exercise. But I think that you know, through the persistence of some of our leaders over the years, you know, Sir Graham and Lada Murra and were Angywaketi Puru and many many others, they've all done the hard yards on this over time, and it's down to those leaders who have really thought for this that we are in the position were now.

Yeah. Look, there's been a lot of barriers placed in the way over time, not the least of which is having the financial capital to be able to pull some of the stuff off, because you know, producing media is not a cheap exercise. But I think that you know, through the persistence of some of our leaders over the years, you know, Sir Graham and Lada Murra and were Angywaketi Puru and many many others, they've all done the hard yards on this over time, and it's down to those leaders who have really thought for this that we are in the position were now.

Nineteen eighty six, the White Tangi Tribunal found that broadcasting was crucial for promoting today as you say, it should be a tanga protected by the Treaty of Waite Tangy. Fast forward to ninety nine, the White Tangi Tribunal Y seven seven six recommended allocating a share of commercial spectrum to MAI. The government didn't accept that finding. It took another basically twenty years for that to actually happen.

Nineteen eighty six, the White Tangi Tribunal found that broadcasting was crucial for promoting today as you say, it should be a tanga protected by the Treaty of Waite Tangy. Fast forward to ninety nine, the White Tangi Tribunal Y seven seven six recommended allocating a share of commercial spectrum to MAI. The government didn't accept that finding. It took another basically twenty years for that to actually happen.

So there was Rangya or Everton was the claimant supported by Natrokowa when you are to playing a very strong part. Dang Yojo's son Graham Everton that they all played a part and bringing to the argument around telecommunications spectrum. That was the first in the telecommunications space that we saw an argument brought forth around the role that BARTI had to play in this space. And you know, it's quite interesting the role that New Zealand as a whole is played in telecommunications. We were the first in the world to auction off telecommunications spectrum. The United States and other countries around the world actually followed us and looked at the experiment that happened here in New Zealand and now it's become the norm. And of course that idea of optioning off spectrum was the very thing that kept off the argument and the U Tribune, and that is the government assumed ownership of this resource, the rights to use spectrum or telecommunication spectrum in particular, and then to be able to go on and in correct private property rights which are then tradeable. They have asset values and can be traded. That was the key that good the conversation, saying you can't assume that you own the stuff and then can convert it into these private assets. And of course the government's argument was what in eighteen forty, you know, you guys didn't know about spectrum, so you know you can't count and make your tonnel well, and eighty forty you didn't. So that was the basis of the argument was really around these private rights that were being created. And of course the Witanua Tribunal found in favor. The government didn't accept the finding because it's only a recommendatory process. Some part. What they did do was in two thousand and the following year and they said, tell you what we'll do is we'll set up a trust, and which was called at the time the Marti Spectrum Trust, which is now called to that. I take a trust and then we'll give you a bit of money. They gave five million dollars and then the government spent a million dollars on actually setting the trust up, so it wasn't a lot of cash. And then the rights to purchase some three g spectrum and we'll give you a discount, a five percent disc and the spectrum I think was very forteen million. I think, so there was no way with the money that we had that were going to even be able to get our hands on it. So from that point forward, there were a number of people who rolled up best Lee's and said, look, we need to think about how we utilize the spectrum this opportunity we have, and how do we build a competing network. And of course, at the time, Vodaphone and Spark had a very comfortable duopoly, so even if you wanted to start up a new network, there were so many things that were barriers in place to prevent that occurrent. But with tenacity and people like Tex Edwards and Bill Osborne and many others, Bavis, Mulleins and others batted down all of those barriers over time, attracted investment from overseas and eventually launched two degrees Mobile, of which Marty had a small portion, of a diluting portion over time because of building one of these nationwide mes works at a billion dollars is pretty expensive, so it's not the sort of petticash that we have sitting in the draw. So over time we were diluted. But nonetheless, I think the value that we have seen as a result of two degrees Mobile coming to this country is can be measured in billions of pe and now we've got one of the more competitive markets in the world. We didn't have that before. I remember personally getting a monthly bill from Vodafa for seven hundred and fifty dollars for my mobile phone.

So there was Rangya or Everton was the claimant supported by Natrokowa when you are to playing a very strong part. Dang Yojo's son Graham Everton that they all played a part and bringing to the argument around telecommunications spectrum. That was the first in the telecommunications space that we saw an argument brought forth around the role that BARTI had to play in this space. And you know, it's quite interesting the role that New Zealand as a whole is played in telecommunications. We were the first in the world to auction off telecommunications spectrum. The United States and other countries around the world actually followed us and looked at the experiment that happened here in New Zealand and now it's become the norm. And of course that idea of optioning off spectrum was the very thing that kept off the argument and the U Tribune, and that is the government assumed ownership of this resource, the rights to use spectrum or telecommunication spectrum in particular, and then to be able to go on and in correct private property rights which are then tradeable. They have asset values and can be traded. That was the key that good the conversation, saying you can't assume that you own the stuff and then can convert it into these private assets. And of course the government's argument was what in eighteen forty, you know, you guys didn't know about spectrum, so you know you can't count and make your tonnel well, and eighty forty you didn't. So that was the basis of the argument was really around these private rights that were being created. And of course the Witanua Tribunal found in favor. The government didn't accept the finding because it's only a recommendatory process. Some part. What they did do was in two thousand and the following year and they said, tell you what we'll do is we'll set up a trust, and which was called at the time the Marti Spectrum Trust, which is now called to that. I take a trust and then we'll give you a bit of money. They gave five million dollars and then the government spent a million dollars on actually setting the trust up, so it wasn't a lot of cash. And then the rights to purchase some three g spectrum and we'll give you a discount, a five percent disc and the spectrum I think was very forteen million. I think, so there was no way with the money that we had that were going to even be able to get our hands on it. So from that point forward, there were a number of people who rolled up best Lee's and said, look, we need to think about how we utilize the spectrum this opportunity we have, and how do we build a competing network. And of course, at the time, Vodaphone and Spark had a very comfortable duopoly, so even if you wanted to start up a new network, there were so many things that were barriers in place to prevent that occurrent. But with tenacity and people like Tex Edwards and Bill Osborne and many others, Bavis, Mulleins and others batted down all of those barriers over time, attracted investment from overseas and eventually launched two degrees Mobile, of which Marty had a small portion, of a diluting portion over time because of building one of these nationwide mes works at a billion dollars is pretty expensive, so it's not the sort of petticash that we have sitting in the draw. So over time we were diluted. But nonetheless, I think the value that we have seen as a result of two degrees Mobile coming to this country is can be measured in billions of pe and now we've got one of the more competitive markets in the world. We didn't have that before. I remember personally getting a monthly bill from Vodafa for seven hundred and fifty dollars for my mobile phone.

Yeah, sending a text message was twenty cents, So it was ridiculous. Every market in Europe showed that. When in the US, when you have three players, that's when you really do get competition. That relationship and it was back in the early days. It was with Ecoonett, this African telecommunications provider. They were involved in it texts just a force of nature, knew exactly what he was doing. He was involved in. It led to your involvement with two Degrees on the board as well.

Yeah, sending a text message was twenty cents, So it was ridiculous. Every market in Europe showed that. When in the US, when you have three players, that's when you really do get competition. That relationship and it was back in the early days. It was with Ecoonett, this African telecommunications provider. They were involved in it texts just a force of nature, knew exactly what he was doing. He was involved in. It led to your involvement with two Degrees on the board as well.

That's right. I was on the board during the startup phase of Two Degrees, which was pretty exciting. It learned a lot during that phase working with the guys from Trilogy. Yeah, it was a pretty exciting face. It was a people were passionate about building a new competitive organization against the existing two incumbenties. Yeah.

That's right. I was on the board during the startup phase of Two Degrees, which was pretty exciting. It learned a lot during that phase working with the guys from Trilogy. Yeah, it was a pretty exciting face. It was a people were passionate about building a new competitive organization against the existing two incumbenties. Yeah.

So that has happened and you know they have one hundreds of thousands of customers now, so that's a great thing. Separate to that about five years ago you joined the Intra mari Spectrum Commission which is now Totaya as the chief executive officer, and that was really to shepherd and take care of the spectrum resources.

So that has happened and you know they have one hundreds of thousands of customers now, so that's a great thing. Separate to that about five years ago you joined the Intra mari Spectrum Commission which is now Totaya as the chief executive officer, and that was really to shepherd and take care of the spectrum resources.

In two thousand and twenty we established the Intra Marii Spectrum Commission Trust, which I became the CEO of and then we went on to negotiating a deal with the government which we signed in twenty twenty two. And so that was a landmark agreement with the government that set out a plan for the future which was about a test spectrum, about supporting developing up the idea of a spectrum commission, the idea of how do we get access to infrastructure, skills, capability because we've been trying for so long. Capabilities in the space are very low, very few Maori inside telecommunications sector and this and issue actually pull others bit later it and just really how do you continue to build a workforce for the telecommunications sector. It's been neglected for some time. So we said we want to be able to build up our capacity and ultimate aim is we don't want to be dependent on government. We want to be self standard, we want to stand on own, we want to be independent. We want to add value to the government and we want to add value to New Zealand, and we want to do that through participating at greater levels than we've allowed in the past. And so that was the blueprint for what the future might look like, and so we've been working on that. We started a process of looking for opportunities use to invest in the sector and a broad Tech Group was one that popped up and met a number of the criteria and so we signed an agreement. Interestingly, broad Tech Group, we didn't realize that we'll have to sign it the day that we signed with broad Tech. Broad Tech had just on that very day, had its fiftieth birthday. So it's a company that requires fifty years old in New Zealand. And it started out with Radio Heneque, building the first commercial antenna site for Radio HOGEG. So its genesis is in the broadcasting and radio and television and then more lately it's gotten too telecommunications. So we've had that just over a year now and supporting that and growing that organization, and so that's been a fantastic acquisition.

In two thousand and twenty we established the Intra Marii Spectrum Commission Trust, which I became the CEO of and then we went on to negotiating a deal with the government which we signed in twenty twenty two. And so that was a landmark agreement with the government that set out a plan for the future which was about a test spectrum, about supporting developing up the idea of a spectrum commission, the idea of how do we get access to infrastructure, skills, capability because we've been trying for so long. Capabilities in the space are very low, very few Maori inside telecommunications sector and this and issue actually pull others bit later it and just really how do you continue to build a workforce for the telecommunications sector. It's been neglected for some time. So we said we want to be able to build up our capacity and ultimate aim is we don't want to be dependent on government. We want to be self standard, we want to stand on own, we want to be independent. We want to add value to the government and we want to add value to New Zealand, and we want to do that through participating at greater levels than we've allowed in the past. And so that was the blueprint for what the future might look like, and so we've been working on that. We started a process of looking for opportunities use to invest in the sector and a broad Tech Group was one that popped up and met a number of the criteria and so we signed an agreement. Interestingly, broad Tech Group, we didn't realize that we'll have to sign it the day that we signed with broad Tech. Broad Tech had just on that very day, had its fiftieth birthday. So it's a company that requires fifty years old in New Zealand. And it started out with Radio Heneque, building the first commercial antenna site for Radio HOGEG. So its genesis is in the broadcasting and radio and television and then more lately it's gotten too telecommunications. So we've had that just over a year now and supporting that and growing that organization, and so that's been a fantastic acquisition.

It sure has people probably haven't heard as much about broad Tech. It's sort of a behind the scenes provide a little bit in some respects like Cordia, the state owned enterprise, it does a lot of broadcasting stuff as well, does some stuff there. But now you have this organization with what over one hundred staff.

It sure has people probably haven't heard as much about broad Tech. It's sort of a behind the scenes provide a little bit in some respects like Cordia, the state owned enterprise, it does a lot of broadcasting stuff as well, does some stuff there. But now you have this organization with what over one hundred staff.

Yeah, it's roughly, I mean it varies, but including subcontracts, is over one hundred staff and working right across the industry. So not only in television and radio. I've up working for the three molebil operators, but one or two degrees that tower companies can exterin forty south ICG and currently doing for MGC.

Yeah, it's roughly, I mean it varies, but including subcontracts, is over one hundred staff and working right across the industry. So not only in television and radio. I've up working for the three molebil operators, but one or two degrees that tower companies can exterin forty south ICG and currently doing for MGC.

So you've got this what fifty megahertz chunk of five G spectrum. There was some money involved as well that allowed you to make that acquisition. So what's the plan Now you've got this incredible resource. Tell us about some of the projects that you have underway that ultimately are going to lead to this becoming sustainable financially, you know, a really solid business, but also is going to flow back to MARI in terms of MARI development and opportunities for career development.

So you've got this what fifty megahertz chunk of five G spectrum. There was some money involved as well that allowed you to make that acquisition. So what's the plan Now you've got this incredible resource. Tell us about some of the projects that you have underway that ultimately are going to lead to this becoming sustainable financially, you know, a really solid business, but also is going to flow back to MARI in terms of MARI development and opportunities for career development.

When we, of course we're negotiating for access to five G spectrum, of course, the natural response for a number of people who is what the heck are you're going to use it for. One of the things that we said right from the very start is we think there's an opportunity to develop private five G networks. That's you know, four G networks have been around for a while, but the opportunity to play in the five G space was we thought was a natural place for us to go to. We are not going to go and try and compete and do another two degrees. We've done that job. What we want to do now is look at some of the other ways that we can help improve productivity, health and safety using wildest technologies and particular g widest technologies. So that was where that was our starting point. The way in which the technology is configured is different because the use cases different. Here what mobile operators primarily get their money from shipping data down to the devices, whereas were the other way around. We want to ship data up. Trying to manage configuration, which has been mandated here in New Zealand, where we've done a lot of works. What happens if you do try and change the way in which the configuration works. How much does that create interference? What are the impacts on the other operators? So we did a lot of work in that space. So building up our capacity and capability in the private five G private networks was really important for us. And then going on and investing in the space and putting our money where our mouth was and going and winning a Centapore was important for us because we believe that there was the things that you can do with this technology that you know, if you talk to the Centable guys, they're all about half and safety, make sure their people are safe and how can they deploy technology. So they've tried using the Meno mobile networks on the site, but it doesn't work for them because they've got a really great park right next door to them. Every time some rugby game or some concerts on, it sucks up all the bandwidths and they're left with none. So private five G networks is the way to go for them.

When we, of course we're negotiating for access to five G spectrum, of course, the natural response for a number of people who is what the heck are you're going to use it for. One of the things that we said right from the very start is we think there's an opportunity to develop private five G networks. That's you know, four G networks have been around for a while, but the opportunity to play in the five G space was we thought was a natural place for us to go to. We are not going to go and try and compete and do another two degrees. We've done that job. What we want to do now is look at some of the other ways that we can help improve productivity, health and safety using wildest technologies and particular g widest technologies. So that was where that was our starting point. The way in which the technology is configured is different because the use cases different. Here what mobile operators primarily get their money from shipping data down to the devices, whereas were the other way around. We want to ship data up. Trying to manage configuration, which has been mandated here in New Zealand, where we've done a lot of works. What happens if you do try and change the way in which the configuration works. How much does that create interference? What are the impacts on the other operators? So we did a lot of work in that space. So building up our capacity and capability in the private five G private networks was really important for us. And then going on and investing in the space and putting our money where our mouth was and going and winning a Centapore was important for us because we believe that there was the things that you can do with this technology that you know, if you talk to the Centable guys, they're all about half and safety, make sure their people are safe and how can they deploy technology. So they've tried using the Meno mobile networks on the site, but it doesn't work for them because they've got a really great park right next door to them. Every time some rugby game or some concerts on, it sucks up all the bandwidths and they're left with none. So private five G networks is the way to go for them.

Wellington's one of the busiest ports in the country. Actually, it's got all the ferries that comes through Bluebridge and interil NERD's got the logging ships going out, container ships coming in. Incredibly busy, large campus there. As you say, you've got the sky Stadium on one side, and I didn't realize as well, but when ships pull up there. You've got these massive, big steel hulled ships there which interfere with the mobile networks as well. So to actually build your own network with your own cell towers on the site, they will have exclusive use of that better than Wi Fi and not competing with others on the public mobile network.

Wellington's one of the busiest ports in the country. Actually, it's got all the ferries that comes through Bluebridge and interil NERD's got the logging ships going out, container ships coming in. Incredibly busy, large campus there. As you say, you've got the sky Stadium on one side, and I didn't realize as well, but when ships pull up there. You've got these massive, big steel hulled ships there which interfere with the mobile networks as well. So to actually build your own network with your own cell towers on the site, they will have exclusive use of that better than Wi Fi and not competing with others on the public mobile network.

That's right, and there's some particular challenges in that space. You've got ship that comes in, you've got containers that gets plopped in front of the radios. It's a continuously changing environment. It's something that we'd like to spend some more time researching on as to how you can actually create a really good service inside a changing environment like that. And so we just recently partnered up with aut to look research project in which you can have configurrale antennas rather than the static ones that we have at the moment.

That's right, and there's some particular challenges in that space. You've got ship that comes in, you've got containers that gets plopped in front of the radios. It's a continuously changing environment. It's something that we'd like to spend some more time researching on as to how you can actually create a really good service inside a changing environment like that. And so we just recently partnered up with aut to look research project in which you can have configurrale antennas rather than the static ones that we have at the moment.

This will be the first commercial private five G network. We've heard so much about these, mainly from the mobile vendors. They've really been pushing them. Some of them have sort of been put in place in other countries, mainly at airport's big factories where they have a lot of devices that need to connect in real time. So they want low latency connections has been very slow to come to New Zealand. But the resources you have, particularly with that five G spectrum, that really gives you an advantage when it comes to private five gen.

This will be the first commercial private five G network. We've heard so much about these, mainly from the mobile vendors. They've really been pushing them. Some of them have sort of been put in place in other countries, mainly at airport's big factories where they have a lot of devices that need to connect in real time. So they want low latency connections has been very slow to come to New Zealand. But the resources you have, particularly with that five G spectrum, that really gives you an advantage when it comes to private five gen.

Well, yes it does, but it's not We're not relying on that on its owning. We've still got to be innovative. We've still going to deliver a great product and a great service. While the spectrum side of it is important, in my mind, that shouldn't be the deciding vector. That's the service that you're developing and providing, and so ultimately we just want to be the service provider providing innovative solutions. We don't necessarily have to own the relationship with the end customer. But what we do want to do is to generate interest in this area and to generate opportunities. So since the Centerble announcement, of course, now we've got a whole range of boards around the country who are all looking to do similar things, which is great.

Well, yes it does, but it's not We're not relying on that on its owning. We've still got to be innovative. We've still going to deliver a great product and a great service. While the spectrum side of it is important, in my mind, that shouldn't be the deciding vector. That's the service that you're developing and providing, and so ultimately we just want to be the service provider providing innovative solutions. We don't necessarily have to own the relationship with the end customer. But what we do want to do is to generate interest in this area and to generate opportunities. So since the Centerble announcement, of course, now we've got a whole range of boards around the country who are all looking to do similar things, which is great.

Yeah, and you aren't in competition necessarily with the big three mobile operators. As you say, you know, you don't need to own the end customer, and those guys have a lot of customers already. So there's huge scope for partnership there.

Yeah, and you aren't in competition necessarily with the big three mobile operators. As you say, you know, you don't need to own the end customer, and those guys have a lot of customers already. So there's huge scope for partnership there.

I guess, look, that's what that's our end game and all of this, and from time to time we will compete with the mobile operators I expect, but that's not our fundamental strategies to go get to ed with. What we do want to do is to generate interest. We want to be able to be innovative. You know, the mobile operators are facing a challenging time at the moment. They're having to continue to invest in new technologies as they come along. In five G S eight RN would of course still be the retorations over time, and then of course there will be other spectrum bands that potentially they mightey have to invest in. At the same time, they've got a customer base that is wanting to pay less and expecting to get higher speeds and greater value out of what they're spending on telecommunications. And then you have the other part of this is the vendor environment, whereby of course you've got the geopolitical challenges with Huawei, who have provided some kind of competitive tension. I guess amongst the vendors now you're probably down to two major vendors now, and then of course the move to cloud based solutions and virtualized services, and of course the only way, the only way that mobile operators long term are going to be able to survive, I think is they need to be thinking about how do we reduce our cost of infrastructure, both in terms of their investment upfront and their ongoing maintenance costs, so you know we want to pay it.

I guess, look, that's what that's our end game and all of this, and from time to time we will compete with the mobile operators I expect, but that's not our fundamental strategies to go get to ed with. What we do want to do is to generate interest. We want to be able to be innovative. You know, the mobile operators are facing a challenging time at the moment. They're having to continue to invest in new technologies as they come along. In five G S eight RN would of course still be the retorations over time, and then of course there will be other spectrum bands that potentially they mightey have to invest in. At the same time, they've got a customer base that is wanting to pay less and expecting to get higher speeds and greater value out of what they're spending on telecommunications. And then you have the other part of this is the vendor environment, whereby of course you've got the geopolitical challenges with Huawei, who have provided some kind of competitive tension. I guess amongst the vendors now you're probably down to two major vendors now, and then of course the move to cloud based solutions and virtualized services, and of course the only way, the only way that mobile operators long term are going to be able to survive, I think is they need to be thinking about how do we reduce our cost of infrastructure, both in terms of their investment upfront and their ongoing maintenance costs, so you know we want to pay it.

Yeah, that's brilliant, and we've got technologies like open ran, you know, the radio access network being able to share that not everyone having to build their own one, as you say, infrastructure sharing. When you talk to the telcos, they're like, you know, this is a low margin business and they thought five G would be the one that added a premium. It hasn't worked out that way, so they're going to be reluctant to invest in six G unless it's going to lead to a big revenue boost for them.

Yeah, that's brilliant, and we've got technologies like open ran, you know, the radio access network being able to share that not everyone having to build their own one, as you say, infrastructure sharing. When you talk to the telcos, they're like, you know, this is a low margin business and they thought five G would be the one that added a premium. It hasn't worked out that way, so they're going to be reluctant to invest in six G unless it's going to lead to a big revenue boost for them.

That's right, and thinking about how that ecosystem fits together. So open ram is a really good example. You know, how how do you mix and match. There's some real advantages in buying all of your product from one vendor, but there's also some advantages and going open rounds such as Vada Phones doing over in Europe. So our guys have been experimenting and can now connect a range of different calls to radios. We have a range of different radios, We've got three different calls, and we can mix and match all of those radios with all of our call with three different calls. So that's the stuff that takes a bit of time to develop. Yeah, and then of course it's about then matching what are the technologies that best match the use case that we're trying to solve this particular project.

That's right, and thinking about how that ecosystem fits together. So open ram is a really good example. You know, how how do you mix and match. There's some real advantages in buying all of your product from one vendor, but there's also some advantages and going open rounds such as Vada Phones doing over in Europe. So our guys have been experimenting and can now connect a range of different calls to radios. We have a range of different radios, We've got three different calls, and we can mix and match all of those radios with all of our call with three different calls. So that's the stuff that takes a bit of time to develop. Yeah, and then of course it's about then matching what are the technologies that best match the use case that we're trying to solve this particular project.

So hopefully this becomes a really financially successful venture and therefore the proceeds the dividends of that will go back to MARII. In terms of someone who's sitting in Northland or the East Cape at the moment and can afford broadband, it's really expensive. That's where the digital divide still really exists. Is there anything on the roadmap where you might be able to use that spectrum and your infrastructure expertise to provide low cost or no cost broadband maybe via EWE organizations to people who are left out at the moment.

So hopefully this becomes a really financially successful venture and therefore the proceeds the dividends of that will go back to MARII. In terms of someone who's sitting in Northland or the East Cape at the moment and can afford broadband, it's really expensive. That's where the digital divide still really exists. Is there anything on the roadmap where you might be able to use that spectrum and your infrastructure expertise to provide low cost or no cost broadband maybe via EWE organizations to people who are left out at the moment.

That's an ongoing challenge to solve that digital equity problem. I am a little bit cautious to take too much of that on our own shoulders, because at the end of the day, this is a government responsibility to make sure that all New Zealanders get equitable access to telecommunications. What we can do is think about what are some of the other innovative solutions that will help. So one of the things that we have been thinking about is what happens in times of climate events. How can we help communities build a resilient tele communications of a structure they can turn on when their existing one fails for whatever reason that might be. And so we've been experimenting and building some prototypes around a very small mobile tem that can automatically stand up a mobile network or a Wi Fi network. It's low power ideally for us, that will be run for months on end without the intervention. So we do quite a bit of work to think about what that might look like. And I think that if we can, as we continue to iterate on the work that we're doing in that space, there will be opportunities for us to provide communities with the ability to be stand alone. Because one of the things that we had cyclone Gabriel, we had that resilient We talked about how do you provide more resilience. The problem is that one way that what to provide resilience is what more batteries and what more generators? In more generators and you only shift your supply chain problem to gasoline as opposed to power. Having a solution which is only driven from one end, and my view doesn't work. You need to be able to give communities their own ability to be able to resilient in their own space and not have to rely completely on command and control from a central point. And so that's what I'd like to see is that we engage communities more in those things that are important to them.

That's an ongoing challenge to solve that digital equity problem. I am a little bit cautious to take too much of that on our own shoulders, because at the end of the day, this is a government responsibility to make sure that all New Zealanders get equitable access to telecommunications. What we can do is think about what are some of the other innovative solutions that will help. So one of the things that we have been thinking about is what happens in times of climate events. How can we help communities build a resilient tele communications of a structure they can turn on when their existing one fails for whatever reason that might be. And so we've been experimenting and building some prototypes around a very small mobile tem that can automatically stand up a mobile network or a Wi Fi network. It's low power ideally for us, that will be run for months on end without the intervention. So we do quite a bit of work to think about what that might look like. And I think that if we can, as we continue to iterate on the work that we're doing in that space, there will be opportunities for us to provide communities with the ability to be stand alone. Because one of the things that we had cyclone Gabriel, we had that resilient We talked about how do you provide more resilience. The problem is that one way that what to provide resilience is what more batteries and what more generators? In more generators and you only shift your supply chain problem to gasoline as opposed to power. Having a solution which is only driven from one end, and my view doesn't work. You need to be able to give communities their own ability to be able to resilient in their own space and not have to rely completely on command and control from a central point. And so that's what I'd like to see is that we engage communities more in those things that are important to them.

There's there young Mari people out there who want to get into technology. You are the only person in the class as an electrical engineer all those decades ago. But now potentially if people are interested in a career in telecommunications, they have a pathway.

There's there young Mari people out there who want to get into technology. You are the only person in the class as an electrical engineer all those decades ago. But now potentially if people are interested in a career in telecommunications, they have a pathway.

Now.

Now.

Obviously there still good courses in that getting a job there are the three telcos, but particularly for MARI engineers, you've got an organization here that part of its remit is to support that workforce. That's a huge opportunity.

Obviously there still good courses in that getting a job there are the three telcos, but particularly for MARI engineers, you've got an organization here that part of its remit is to support that workforce. That's a huge opportunity.

So that's the part that we haven't talked too much about. And that's what is the value for MARII out of all this, because we're not doing this for sharhold returns. So we're doing this because we think there's some value that we can return to mari and to New Zealanders are particularly the industry. So if you look at radio engineers typically in New Zealand, they have all been trained, well, we're almost all near retirement. We're training through the Post Office days and BCL and all those government organizations. We haven't had those training programs in place for a long time, and so we're short of people with those skills and capability, and they tend to be filled by bringing people offshore, which is fine, but you've also got to be building your own locals who have that opportunity to play the space. Now, if you look at the engineering schools today, people thought there used to be there a very different place and really really pleased, you know, want to walk into these engineering schools to see the range of people that are there now as opposed to what it used to look like. So it's fantastic. So what we're doing is that we've got in place our relationships with tertiary educations to try and promote the idea of telecommunications as a valid career path, and of course there are a whole range of different employment pathways. We are focusing at the moment on the engineering site, but that's not the only place that they will be focusing. So for example, we've got two engineers that we pulled out we just completed their engineering degree Canterbury too young many and we've brought them up to Auckland and they are now becoming experts on deploying five G. That's something that is you wouldn't get anywhere else. What we want to do is to work with the industry and come up with a program of internships that allows people to get around a build experience in the industry. So first of all, attract people into the industry, and there's a whole pipeline. It's all the way back to making sure that we've got the right students who are being service schooled in STEM subjects, who are getting through into the tertiary training, given the right work experience and given a positive work experience, and then showing the choice of roles and the choice of industry participants. So each of the big em and o's and the big telcos in our space they're all doing stuff in the space. It's great, but there is no integrated approach to doing this, unlike the energy sector, which does have an integrated approach to attracting people into their sector. That's the role that we hope that we can work with the telcos and facilitate these opportunities. That's one part is the workforce and of course the innovation space. We want to continue to think about how do you use wildest technologies to help solve real world problems. How our argument is this is that you give us access to the resources should have access to spectrum, we will build platforms upon which people use that resource to innovate and create IP. And this is the bigger you know, New Zealand Inc. Argument is that thinking about spectrum resource, our spectrum resource, not just as something that can be used to provide some services. Consumers will pay some money to the companies and you know, will be sweet thinking about how do we use that access the spectrum to generate further IP which is of interest to people off shore. So ultimately, long term, the goal is to be innovative enough that you know, we can build some companies who generate offshore revenue as a result of our skills and exertise here in your seeland. That the great thing about New Zealand is will be small enough and edgile enough to do this. Trying to do this in other countries is really, really hard.

So that's the part that we haven't talked too much about. And that's what is the value for MARII out of all this, because we're not doing this for sharhold returns. So we're doing this because we think there's some value that we can return to mari and to New Zealanders are particularly the industry. So if you look at radio engineers typically in New Zealand, they have all been trained, well, we're almost all near retirement. We're training through the Post Office days and BCL and all those government organizations. We haven't had those training programs in place for a long time, and so we're short of people with those skills and capability, and they tend to be filled by bringing people offshore, which is fine, but you've also got to be building your own locals who have that opportunity to play the space. Now, if you look at the engineering schools today, people thought there used to be there a very different place and really really pleased, you know, want to walk into these engineering schools to see the range of people that are there now as opposed to what it used to look like. So it's fantastic. So what we're doing is that we've got in place our relationships with tertiary educations to try and promote the idea of telecommunications as a valid career path, and of course there are a whole range of different employment pathways. We are focusing at the moment on the engineering site, but that's not the only place that they will be focusing. So for example, we've got two engineers that we pulled out we just completed their engineering degree Canterbury too young many and we've brought them up to Auckland and they are now becoming experts on deploying five G. That's something that is you wouldn't get anywhere else. What we want to do is to work with the industry and come up with a program of internships that allows people to get around a build experience in the industry. So first of all, attract people into the industry, and there's a whole pipeline. It's all the way back to making sure that we've got the right students who are being service schooled in STEM subjects, who are getting through into the tertiary training, given the right work experience and given a positive work experience, and then showing the choice of roles and the choice of industry participants. So each of the big em and o's and the big telcos in our space they're all doing stuff in the space. It's great, but there is no integrated approach to doing this, unlike the energy sector, which does have an integrated approach to attracting people into their sector. That's the role that we hope that we can work with the telcos and facilitate these opportunities. That's one part is the workforce and of course the innovation space. We want to continue to think about how do you use wildest technologies to help solve real world problems. How our argument is this is that you give us access to the resources should have access to spectrum, we will build platforms upon which people use that resource to innovate and create IP. And this is the bigger you know, New Zealand Inc. Argument is that thinking about spectrum resource, our spectrum resource, not just as something that can be used to provide some services. Consumers will pay some money to the companies and you know, will be sweet thinking about how do we use that access the spectrum to generate further IP which is of interest to people off shore. So ultimately, long term, the goal is to be innovative enough that you know, we can build some companies who generate offshore revenue as a result of our skills and exertise here in your seeland. That the great thing about New Zealand is will be small enough and edgile enough to do this. Trying to do this in other countries is really, really hard.

I just want to say, you know, congratulations on all our hard work paying off. Now you've got a sustainable business, You've got in perpetuity. You've got this great tongue in the form of Malori Spectrum. You're getting engineers that probably wouldn't have had an opportunity before going into the industry. It looks like a great opportunity. You've got the five G private network going live at Centerport. You a first in this country. I guess you've laid the groundwork for what could be a really successful venture that actually really does have impact for Mari.

I just want to say, you know, congratulations on all our hard work paying off. Now you've got a sustainable business, You've got in perpetuity. You've got this great tongue in the form of Malori Spectrum. You're getting engineers that probably wouldn't have had an opportunity before going into the industry. It looks like a great opportunity. You've got the five G private network going live at Centerport. You a first in this country. I guess you've laid the groundwork for what could be a really successful venture that actually really does have impact for Mari.

Yeah, we look, we're looking forward to I mean that the technology stuff is really great, but what's important for us is thinking about what's best for Mary and what's best for alt at all, and that's really where we want to play.

Yeah, we look, we're looking forward to I mean that the technology stuff is really great, but what's important for us is thinking about what's best for Mary and what's best for alt at all, and that's really where we want to play.

So thanks to Anthony Royle for coming on the podcast. Some details about what Tuiteya is working on in the show notes. You'll find them in the podcast section at Business deesk dot co dot nz. Get in touch with your feedback, ideas and guest suggestions. Email me on Peter at Peter Griffin dot co dot nz or you'll easily find me on linkin Blue Sky. Feel free to slide into my DMS. Next week, Sarah Box, one of the countries leading artificial intelligence policy experts, joins us on the show. She's helping the government shape its approach to AI following a stint in the US last year that took in Trump's victory in the November presidential election, which ushered in a significant change in direction for AI policy and regulation in the US, which has truly global ramifications. If you're listening on iHeartRadio, you can also subscribe to the podcast in your podcast app of choice. Leave a review too if you like the show, and we'll see you back here next Thursday with me Peter Griffin for another episode of the Business of Tech.

So thanks to Anthony Royle for coming on the podcast. Some details about what Tuiteya is working on in the show notes. You'll find them in the podcast section at Business deesk dot co dot nz. Get in touch with your feedback, ideas and guest suggestions. Email me on Peter at Peter Griffin dot co dot nz or you'll easily find me on linkin Blue Sky. Feel free to slide into my DMS. Next week, Sarah Box, one of the countries leading artificial intelligence policy experts, joins us on the show. She's helping the government shape its approach to AI following a stint in the US last year that took in Trump's victory in the November presidential election, which ushered in a significant change in direction for AI policy and regulation in the US, which has truly global ramifications. If you're listening on iHeartRadio, you can also subscribe to the podcast in your podcast app of choice. Leave a review too if you like the show, and we'll see you back here next Thursday with me Peter Griffin for another episode of the Business of Tech.

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Catch it in