Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. Today's show could literally change your life, and I'm going to tell you why.

Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. Today's show could literally change your life, and I'm going to tell you why.

We're joined by.

We're joined by.

Julia Borston, CNBC Senior Media and Tech correspondent. She's on a mission with her book, When Women Lead. So let me ask you a question. Has anyone ever called you too emotional? Too shy, too ambitious, too inquisitive? I've gotten too sensitive? But what if I told you that your biggest weakness could actually be.

Julia Borston, CNBC Senior Media and Tech correspondent. She's on a mission with her book, When Women Lead. So let me ask you a question. Has anyone ever called you too emotional? Too shy, too ambitious, too inquisitive? I've gotten too sensitive? But what if I told you that your biggest weakness could actually be.

One of your greatest strengths.

One of your greatest strengths.

Our guest, Julia Borston has the stats to back it up. It's Tuesday, September third. I'm Danielle Robe and.

Our guest, Julia Borston has the stats to back it up. It's Tuesday, September third. I'm Danielle Robe and.

I'm Simone Voice. And this is the bright side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day. Danielle, I cannot wait to talk to Julia Borston today. I know are both huge fans of her and her book, When Women Lead. When I've read that book, I'm sure you had the same feeling. I just felt so empowered. I felt like I could go out and negotiate. I felt like I knew how to advocate on behalf of other women. I mean, I tore through that book so quickly, and it's so dog eared and filled with so many post it notes, because you know how much I love research. I was just so impressed by all the deep research that she did to bring this book to life.

I'm Simone Voice. And this is the bright side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day. Danielle, I cannot wait to talk to Julia Borston today. I know are both huge fans of her and her book, When Women Lead. When I've read that book, I'm sure you had the same feeling. I just felt so empowered. I felt like I could go out and negotiate. I felt like I knew how to advocate on behalf of other women. I mean, I tore through that book so quickly, and it's so dog eared and filled with so many post it notes, because you know how much I love research. I was just so impressed by all the deep research that she did to bring this book to life.

Deep research, but she made all the research really interesting. And one of the things that stuck out to me is that I think most women have constantly been told, at one time or another, that were too much of something, And Julia's book tells you and shows you how to use whatever character trait that is to your advantage. So maybe you're quote unquote emotional, but what that really means is you're filled with empathy and are great at connecting with people and are more likely to consider diverse viewpoints. Or maybe you've been told that you can't lead because you're shy, but Julia's research will show you that maybe that means you actually just spend a lot more time listening and therefore learning. I grew up thinking that men were great leaders, that men were smart, that men had the answers, And then I actually grew up and I realized that women were the ones with the answers, that women were leaders. And I think our society caught up too, and women are so powerful, and we just don't know our own powers sometimes, and so Julia has the facts and the stats to back it up.

Deep research, but she made all the research really interesting. And one of the things that stuck out to me is that I think most women have constantly been told, at one time or another, that were too much of something, And Julia's book tells you and shows you how to use whatever character trait that is to your advantage. So maybe you're quote unquote emotional, but what that really means is you're filled with empathy and are great at connecting with people and are more likely to consider diverse viewpoints. Or maybe you've been told that you can't lead because you're shy, but Julia's research will show you that maybe that means you actually just spend a lot more time listening and therefore learning. I grew up thinking that men were great leaders, that men were smart, that men had the answers, And then I actually grew up and I realized that women were the ones with the answers, that women were leaders. And I think our society caught up too, and women are so powerful, and we just don't know our own powers sometimes, and so Julia has the facts and the stats to back it up.

That was so beautifully, said Danielle. For anyone who may not know Julia Borsen, she's a senior media and tech correspondent for CNBC and the creator of the CNBC Disruptor fifty List. It's an annual list that highlights the most innovative, fastest growing private companies. And for this book, When Women Lead, Julia interviewed over one hundred women across multiple sectors and backgrounds, and she paired their stories with dozens of studies.

That was so beautifully, said Danielle. For anyone who may not know Julia Borsen, she's a senior media and tech correspondent for CNBC and the creator of the CNBC Disruptor fifty List. It's an annual list that highlights the most innovative, fastest growing private companies. And for this book, When Women Lead, Julia interviewed over one hundred women across multiple sectors and backgrounds, and she paired their stories with dozens of studies.

Today we're chatting about what happens when women lead and why we are actually the leaders we've been looking for.

Today we're chatting about what happens when women lead and why we are actually the leaders we've been looking for.

Julia Borston, Welcome to the bright Side.

Julia Borston, Welcome to the bright Side.

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm a big fan. This is a bit of a reunion.

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm a big fan. This is a bit of a reunion.

Julia and I used to be colleagues together at the NBC Bureau in Los Angeles, and Danielle has interviewed Julia separately, of I've interviewed Julia separately, and now we finally get to have a conversation together all together.

Julia and I used to be colleagues together at the NBC Bureau in Los Angeles, and Danielle has interviewed Julia separately, of I've interviewed Julia separately, and now we finally get to have a conversation together all together.

It's a party as Julia said it. She said she's a fan of the pod, but I think we're Julia fans.

It's a party as Julia said it. She said she's a fan of the pod, but I think we're Julia fans.

Oh, totally, one hundred percent. It's a love fest.

Oh, totally, one hundred percent. It's a love fest.

Yes, Julia, you write quote In reporting this book, I wasn't just testing hypotheses about female entrepreneurs. I was learning to better navigate the world. What's the most surprising fact you learned about women in leadership through your research that's changed.

Yes, Julia, you write quote In reporting this book, I wasn't just testing hypotheses about female entrepreneurs. I was learning to better navigate the world. What's the most surprising fact you learned about women in leadership through your research that's changed.

The way that you viewed the world. You know, when I started off this project, and it really started with interviews, and I interviewed over one hundred and twenty women, and then those interviews led me to research a lot of studies and data to explain what it was that those women were doing that enabled them to be so successful. I kind of thought I was going to find a playbook for successful female leadership, and what I found was something totally different that absolutely changed the way I think about what it means to be a successful leader. And what it really comes down to is authenticity. The best leaders do not follow any sort of playbook. They are true to who they are. They really understand themselves, their strengths and weaknesses, and they use that self knowledge to push themselves to set goals, but also to surround themselves with people who are going to help them. And I think there was something about this that female leaders already don't fit the model of what a stereotypical male leader is going to look like. And the ones who have really managed to succeed are the ones who say, not only do I not fit that model, Maybe I just need to figure out what my own model is, and we can be most successful if we're really true to ourselves.

The way that you viewed the world. You know, when I started off this project, and it really started with interviews, and I interviewed over one hundred and twenty women, and then those interviews led me to research a lot of studies and data to explain what it was that those women were doing that enabled them to be so successful. I kind of thought I was going to find a playbook for successful female leadership, and what I found was something totally different that absolutely changed the way I think about what it means to be a successful leader. And what it really comes down to is authenticity. The best leaders do not follow any sort of playbook. They are true to who they are. They really understand themselves, their strengths and weaknesses, and they use that self knowledge to push themselves to set goals, but also to surround themselves with people who are going to help them. And I think there was something about this that female leaders already don't fit the model of what a stereotypical male leader is going to look like. And the ones who have really managed to succeed are the ones who say, not only do I not fit that model, Maybe I just need to figure out what my own model is, and we can be most successful if we're really true to ourselves.

Julia, I entered the workforce in twenty thirteen for the first time, and I felt so ill equipped. I realized I didn't know how to communicate in a corporate atmosphere. I didn't know how to disagree. I really felt like I had no tools. So I do what I always do. I turned to books, and I got every book that I could on female leadership, and each book told me about the qualities that I needed to acquire to succeed. And the reason that I love your book so much is it does the exact opposite.

Julia, I entered the workforce in twenty thirteen for the first time, and I felt so ill equipped. I realized I didn't know how to communicate in a corporate atmosphere. I didn't know how to disagree. I really felt like I had no tools. So I do what I always do. I turned to books, and I got every book that I could on female leadership, and each book told me about the qualities that I needed to acquire to succeed. And the reason that I love your book so much is it does the exact opposite.

Your book is about how women can leverage.

Your book is about how women can leverage.

The qualities they already have to succeed in the workplace. I didn't feel shamed one time reading your book, which is so rare in these scenarios. So you refused to be demoralized by what you discovered about gender disparities, and you decided to create this positive framework.

The qualities they already have to succeed in the workplace. I didn't feel shamed one time reading your book, which is so rare in these scenarios. So you refused to be demoralized by what you discovered about gender disparities, and you decided to create this positive framework.

So let's begin with connections.

So let's begin with connections.

You lay out that women are more likely than men to have wide ranging personal connections, and women with an inner circle landed in leadership positions that were two point five times higher in authority and pay.

You lay out that women are more likely than men to have wide ranging personal connections, and women with an inner circle landed in leadership positions that were two point five times higher in authority and pay.

Why is that it's about that inner circle, a trusted and diverse inner circle. What was so interesting to me about that study, and I'm so glad that stuck out to you as well, is this idea that we can all create what a lot of people are calling like your own personal board of advisors. This old fashioned idea that you're going to have a mentor who's older than you at your organization who's going to tell you what to do. That's really out moded. That is not how mentorship really works. But we all need a community, a network of people who are going to help us figure out our own path, who are going to push us, who are going to hold us accountable, and women who have that tight knit circle of people who are not necessarily in the same field as them, not necessarily in the same industry as them. But those are the women who are going to say, hey, what about that goal you set for yourself, what's holding you back? I know that you can do this, and you should know that too, and so I think that's why having that tight knit circle so important. There's another piece of research that I found really interesting that I include in the book, and that's about how women are afraid to draw on their broader network when it comes to professional stuff. And this one study said that women feel very comfortable offering professional help or advice to their female friends, but they do not feel comfortable asking for that professional help. So the reality is that men feel comfortable asking for professional help, and that might be what kind of salary are you asking for? What kind of rais did they offer you? What kind of terms should I be asking for in this deal? Men don't feel what these social scientists called an ick factor. Women described feeling icky and anxious about asking other people for professional help. I felt it myself, and my book came out and I was afraid to ask people for things, and so many women said to me, this is crazy. You literally wrote the book on this, but you're still feeling it. That's how powerful. These feelings are that are socialized so thin as women, we need to acknowledge that the guys are asking each other for professional help. There's nothing wrong with it, and statistically women feel comfortable offering the help. So just ask your friends. And I have a couple of female friends who are older, and when they organize group dinners, they'll say, everyone needs to leave here and ask someone else for something they need and don't feel ashamed about it.

Why is that it's about that inner circle, a trusted and diverse inner circle. What was so interesting to me about that study, and I'm so glad that stuck out to you as well, is this idea that we can all create what a lot of people are calling like your own personal board of advisors. This old fashioned idea that you're going to have a mentor who's older than you at your organization who's going to tell you what to do. That's really out moded. That is not how mentorship really works. But we all need a community, a network of people who are going to help us figure out our own path, who are going to push us, who are going to hold us accountable, and women who have that tight knit circle of people who are not necessarily in the same field as them, not necessarily in the same industry as them. But those are the women who are going to say, hey, what about that goal you set for yourself, what's holding you back? I know that you can do this, and you should know that too, and so I think that's why having that tight knit circle so important. There's another piece of research that I found really interesting that I include in the book, and that's about how women are afraid to draw on their broader network when it comes to professional stuff. And this one study said that women feel very comfortable offering professional help or advice to their female friends, but they do not feel comfortable asking for that professional help. So the reality is that men feel comfortable asking for professional help, and that might be what kind of salary are you asking for? What kind of rais did they offer you? What kind of terms should I be asking for in this deal? Men don't feel what these social scientists called an ick factor. Women described feeling icky and anxious about asking other people for professional help. I felt it myself, and my book came out and I was afraid to ask people for things, and so many women said to me, this is crazy. You literally wrote the book on this, but you're still feeling it. That's how powerful. These feelings are that are socialized so thin as women, we need to acknowledge that the guys are asking each other for professional help. There's nothing wrong with it, and statistically women feel comfortable offering the help. So just ask your friends. And I have a couple of female friends who are older, and when they organize group dinners, they'll say, everyone needs to leave here and ask someone else for something they need and don't feel ashamed about it.

Oh, I love that question.

Oh, I love that question.

Where do you think that comes from? That ick factor that's so deeply ingrained.

Where do you think that comes from? That ick factor that's so deeply ingrained.

It's this idea that women are supposed to be warm and nurturing. If you look at all of the double standards that women face, underlying pretty much all of them is this expectation that women are supposed to be warm, nurturing, and if you vary from that expectation, you're in violation with this stereotype. And it's confusing to people, or it's off putting to people, and they don't like it. And there's something about saying this is what I need, can you help me? Then you're not at the person offering the help, you're asking for it. And I think it just stands in contrast with that very old and I would say old fashioned stereotype.

It's this idea that women are supposed to be warm and nurturing. If you look at all of the double standards that women face, underlying pretty much all of them is this expectation that women are supposed to be warm, nurturing, and if you vary from that expectation, you're in violation with this stereotype. And it's confusing to people, or it's off putting to people, and they don't like it. And there's something about saying this is what I need, can you help me? Then you're not at the person offering the help, you're asking for it. And I think it just stands in contrast with that very old and I would say old fashioned stereotype.

We need to take a quick break, but when we come back, Julia Borston tells us the traits that effective leaders have in common, stay with us, and we're back with Julia Borston.

We need to take a quick break, but when we come back, Julia Borston tells us the traits that effective leaders have in common, stay with us, and we're back with Julia Borston.

Another thing that's really energizing to me about your book is that the women that you interviewed weren't born with this perfect leader starter kit. They learned the traits that make them such effective leaders. So what do these leaders have in common?

Another thing that's really energizing to me about your book is that the women that you interviewed weren't born with this perfect leader starter kit. They learned the traits that make them such effective leaders. So what do these leaders have in common?

So yes, even though each of these leaders is incredibly different from each other, I have over sixty women featured in the book. They come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, backgrounds, interests, and different personality types. But there are a couple of key skills and strategies that women are more likely to have and deploy in successful leadership. One is a communal leadership style. I was actually arguing with my husband last night and I was like, I think I'm just more communal than you are, and you know what I think you are. But this communal leadership style basically means and instead of one person running something making hierarchical decisions top down management, communal is trying to get consensus, trying to make sure you really understand what people are thinking, and trying to figure out how you can learn from everyone across an organization. Another key one here is empathy. Women rate higher on empathy tests. You can test your ability to imagine what someone else is failing or thinking, which is really what empathy is. In this test that I actually linked on my website, and again, social scientists, I love, all these geeky studies figured out how to test this, and what they found is that women are more clued in to what other people are feeling, are thinking. And a lot of times that's derided like, oh, empathy, that's just the same thing as kindness. It's like, no, it's not. Empathy is a very specific skill and it's not just a soft skill. And I hate the term soft skill because it's so demeaning to me. Empathy is a power skill. If you can figure out what the person you're negotiating with is feeling or thinking, we're going to do a better job but coming to an agreement that's actually going to be better for both sides. If you could figure out what someone's real motivation is, if you're working on a team, if you can understand what your teammates real motivation is, what makes them get out of bed in the morning, you're able to figure out how to get them to work a lot harder. And another one I like to talk about a lot is vulnerability, and that's being not performing vulnerability, but being really honest about your strengths and your weaknesses and not being afraid to admit where you have weaknesses. There were some interesting studies about the pandemic about how employees would much prefer to work for a female leader during a time of crisis, and I was so curious about why that was, and what it came down to is the fact that female leaders show their vulnerability. In the pandemic, no one knew what was going on, and the women admitted it. They said, we're not going to try to come up with the solutions, and they communicated with empathy. I know this is really hard. I'm struggling too, This is not easy. And the combination of those two things make female leaders very appealing as leaders to their employees. And then one of my other favorite ones is gratitude. Women in general are more likely to practice gratitude than men, and gratitude to me never had anything to do with business. It was just a thing that was about friends or family. So if women are naturally socialized to talk about things they're grateful for, when you apply that to a work setting, it means you're like, Okay, I'm okay with the state of our business right now, I'm not going to make an anxious decision for a short term. When we're okay, no, we could plan for the long term.

So yes, even though each of these leaders is incredibly different from each other, I have over sixty women featured in the book. They come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, backgrounds, interests, and different personality types. But there are a couple of key skills and strategies that women are more likely to have and deploy in successful leadership. One is a communal leadership style. I was actually arguing with my husband last night and I was like, I think I'm just more communal than you are, and you know what I think you are. But this communal leadership style basically means and instead of one person running something making hierarchical decisions top down management, communal is trying to get consensus, trying to make sure you really understand what people are thinking, and trying to figure out how you can learn from everyone across an organization. Another key one here is empathy. Women rate higher on empathy tests. You can test your ability to imagine what someone else is failing or thinking, which is really what empathy is. In this test that I actually linked on my website, and again, social scientists, I love, all these geeky studies figured out how to test this, and what they found is that women are more clued in to what other people are feeling, are thinking. And a lot of times that's derided like, oh, empathy, that's just the same thing as kindness. It's like, no, it's not. Empathy is a very specific skill and it's not just a soft skill. And I hate the term soft skill because it's so demeaning to me. Empathy is a power skill. If you can figure out what the person you're negotiating with is feeling or thinking, we're going to do a better job but coming to an agreement that's actually going to be better for both sides. If you could figure out what someone's real motivation is, if you're working on a team, if you can understand what your teammates real motivation is, what makes them get out of bed in the morning, you're able to figure out how to get them to work a lot harder. And another one I like to talk about a lot is vulnerability, and that's being not performing vulnerability, but being really honest about your strengths and your weaknesses and not being afraid to admit where you have weaknesses. There were some interesting studies about the pandemic about how employees would much prefer to work for a female leader during a time of crisis, and I was so curious about why that was, and what it came down to is the fact that female leaders show their vulnerability. In the pandemic, no one knew what was going on, and the women admitted it. They said, we're not going to try to come up with the solutions, and they communicated with empathy. I know this is really hard. I'm struggling too, This is not easy. And the combination of those two things make female leaders very appealing as leaders to their employees. And then one of my other favorite ones is gratitude. Women in general are more likely to practice gratitude than men, and gratitude to me never had anything to do with business. It was just a thing that was about friends or family. So if women are naturally socialized to talk about things they're grateful for, when you apply that to a work setting, it means you're like, Okay, I'm okay with the state of our business right now, I'm not going to make an anxious decision for a short term. When we're okay, no, we could plan for the long term.

I want to talk to you about a study that you highlighted that speaks to one of those perceived weaknesses that is often attributed to women. And this study illustrated that men tend to speak up up to seventy five percent more often than women in the workplace.

I want to talk to you about a study that you highlighted that speaks to one of those perceived weaknesses that is often attributed to women. And this study illustrated that men tend to speak up up to seventy five percent more often than women in the workplace.

So not only do women speak less than men, but they are perceived to speak more than they actually do. So if you ask a man how much did those women speak, they report that the women spoke more than they actually did. So it's just like again, double standards all over the place. So one of the CEOs I featured my book, Jennifer Holmgrin. She's the CEO of a very cool biotech company called Lanza Tech. They literally turn pollution into fuel. It's amazing just the technology is just fascinating. She's an introvert, she hates to speak, she'd must rather never public speak, even though she's the CEO of this company. And what she said when I asked her, how on earth have you been able to raise money from Richard Branson, who's this super charismatic, high profile guy pitched to raise hundreds of millions of dollars to grow your company when you are the most introverted person, you hate doing interviews on TV. How is this even possible? And she said that she's been able to use your introversion as an advantage in that what she understands is she's a really good listener. She's not anxious to get a word in edgewys. So she turned this trait of introversion, which has always been seen as a negative thing in business, into a superpower by saying, I don't have to speak. I'm going to listen, and I'm going to listen past the point where they say the thing they want me to hear actually reveal what they really want. The other thing is she figured out when it was appropriate to push herself and so we all have our strengths and weaknesses. She says, you know what if I go into a meeting when I'm surrounding myself by a bunch of men who are my colleagues, and I have to go raise money. I'm not going to talk. I know it's not going to happen. The investors will ask the questions to the men, because that's what happens. They don't assume that I, as a batite woman, are going to be the CEO. I just won't talk. I'll just avoid it. So she said, I know myself and I will push myself to go into those hard meetings. I won't invite my colleagues to come with me. I'll be the only one in the room. So it's a combination of leaning into her strengths and her particular traits and figuring out when she should really push herself to overcome her challenges.

So not only do women speak less than men, but they are perceived to speak more than they actually do. So if you ask a man how much did those women speak, they report that the women spoke more than they actually did. So it's just like again, double standards all over the place. So one of the CEOs I featured my book, Jennifer Holmgrin. She's the CEO of a very cool biotech company called Lanza Tech. They literally turn pollution into fuel. It's amazing just the technology is just fascinating. She's an introvert, she hates to speak, she'd must rather never public speak, even though she's the CEO of this company. And what she said when I asked her, how on earth have you been able to raise money from Richard Branson, who's this super charismatic, high profile guy pitched to raise hundreds of millions of dollars to grow your company when you are the most introverted person, you hate doing interviews on TV. How is this even possible? And she said that she's been able to use your introversion as an advantage in that what she understands is she's a really good listener. She's not anxious to get a word in edgewys. So she turned this trait of introversion, which has always been seen as a negative thing in business, into a superpower by saying, I don't have to speak. I'm going to listen, and I'm going to listen past the point where they say the thing they want me to hear actually reveal what they really want. The other thing is she figured out when it was appropriate to push herself and so we all have our strengths and weaknesses. She says, you know what if I go into a meeting when I'm surrounding myself by a bunch of men who are my colleagues, and I have to go raise money. I'm not going to talk. I know it's not going to happen. The investors will ask the questions to the men, because that's what happens. They don't assume that I, as a batite woman, are going to be the CEO. I just won't talk. I'll just avoid it. So she said, I know myself and I will push myself to go into those hard meetings. I won't invite my colleagues to come with me. I'll be the only one in the room. So it's a combination of leaning into her strengths and her particular traits and figuring out when she should really push herself to overcome her challenges.

You interviewed Hello Sunshine founder Reese Witherspoon as part of this book. We're both curious what your takeaways were from that interview.

You interviewed Hello Sunshine founder Reese Witherspoon as part of this book. We're both curious what your takeaways were from that interview.

Well, you guys are part of the Hello Sunshine of family, and I also inter and CEO Sarah Harden as part of this And what's so awesome about Hello Sunshine is that they saw this white space. They saw that there was not enough content made for women by women to tell the stories of strong, complex women. And it all started when Reese Witherspoon wanted to help herself as an actor and she was so frustrated by the lack of complex, nuanced roles as she got older, and she said, this is really a missed opportunity, and she saw this huge audience of women. But the other thing that I think was so powerful about Reese Witherspoon and Sarah Harden is this idea that you don't need to tell a generic story to be appealing to everyone. Like I think of little fires everywhere. They really wanted to make sure they had people in the room who were connected to the narratives of that story. They weren't just hiring generic writers to tell a generic story. They really wanted to feel authentic and specific, and doing so, they had this story that had mass appeal. I think it's really impressive.

Well, you guys are part of the Hello Sunshine of family, and I also inter and CEO Sarah Harden as part of this And what's so awesome about Hello Sunshine is that they saw this white space. They saw that there was not enough content made for women by women to tell the stories of strong, complex women. And it all started when Reese Witherspoon wanted to help herself as an actor and she was so frustrated by the lack of complex, nuanced roles as she got older, and she said, this is really a missed opportunity, and she saw this huge audience of women. But the other thing that I think was so powerful about Reese Witherspoon and Sarah Harden is this idea that you don't need to tell a generic story to be appealing to everyone. Like I think of little fires everywhere. They really wanted to make sure they had people in the room who were connected to the narratives of that story. They weren't just hiring generic writers to tell a generic story. They really wanted to feel authentic and specific, and doing so, they had this story that had mass appeal. I think it's really impressive.

I also think one of the things I think about is how much money Hello Sunshine has put in women's pockets, including the two of US comedians, untapped artists. Authors, yeah, authors that wouldn't have had a platform or a place to go when I started here. Sarah Harden posted something on Instagram that I wrote down. She said that her mom told her that the best business strategy is human decency. And I find that as a through line in your book as well, actually with women and women lead.

I also think one of the things I think about is how much money Hello Sunshine has put in women's pockets, including the two of US comedians, untapped artists. Authors, yeah, authors that wouldn't have had a platform or a place to go when I started here. Sarah Harden posted something on Instagram that I wrote down. She said that her mom told her that the best business strategy is human decency. And I find that as a through line in your book as well, actually with women and women lead.

Yeah, and I think you're right. I think this idea that if you do the right thing, people are going to see it and remember it and acknowledge it. And I think there was a stereotype for a really long time that women did not help other women. Yeah, And in the eighties and nineties when I was growing up, that was a stereotip. If there was a woman who's lucky enough to get to the top, she was definitely not going to help the women below her. And I've talked to some older women about this, and the reality is it wasn't in their best interest. They knew that there was room for one of them at the top and that was it. But times of change, and I think with that we have seen this movement where women are so eager to help other women. But the reason you really should do it is because it's better for business, Because there is an audience out there that wants to see content that doesn't just feature people who look or sound just one way.

Yeah, and I think you're right. I think this idea that if you do the right thing, people are going to see it and remember it and acknowledge it. And I think there was a stereotype for a really long time that women did not help other women. Yeah, And in the eighties and nineties when I was growing up, that was a stereotip. If there was a woman who's lucky enough to get to the top, she was definitely not going to help the women below her. And I've talked to some older women about this, and the reality is it wasn't in their best interest. They knew that there was room for one of them at the top and that was it. But times of change, and I think with that we have seen this movement where women are so eager to help other women. But the reason you really should do it is because it's better for business, Because there is an audience out there that wants to see content that doesn't just feature people who look or sound just one way.

Well, as I hear you talking about women investing in women, I think about that stat that you cit in your book that less than two percent of venture capital goes to female founded businesses. I've personally interviewed a lot of women and venture capitalists who are making it their mission to change that, to make sure that money goes into the hands of female founders. It's all very encouraging.

Well, as I hear you talking about women investing in women, I think about that stat that you cit in your book that less than two percent of venture capital goes to female founded businesses. I've personally interviewed a lot of women and venture capitalists who are making it their mission to change that, to make sure that money goes into the hands of female founders. It's all very encouraging.

It's all very encouraging. And one area where there has been a real growth is investments into co ed founded companies. So for a long time, over eighty five percent of all venture capital dollars went to male only founded businesses. Over eighty five five percent male only founding businesses. We're talking about teams with five guys, not a woman on the team. So I think that companies are realizing that they will be more successful if the people were creating the products and services that are used by people all over the world are not just men.

It's all very encouraging. And one area where there has been a real growth is investments into co ed founded companies. So for a long time, over eighty five percent of all venture capital dollars went to male only founded businesses. Over eighty five five percent male only founding businesses. We're talking about teams with five guys, not a woman on the team. So I think that companies are realizing that they will be more successful if the people were creating the products and services that are used by people all over the world are not just men.

It's time for a shortbreak, but don't go anywhere, because when we come back, we're talking about unlocking your leadership superpowers with Julia Borston.

It's time for a shortbreak, but don't go anywhere, because when we come back, we're talking about unlocking your leadership superpowers with Julia Borston.

And we're back with Julia Borston.

And we're back with Julia Borston.

So we've talked a lot about the people that you interviewed for your book. But I want to ask you about a personal experience you had. You interviewed an executive for Warner Studios, and after that interview, a PR rep called and said that you had been mean during the interview.

So we've talked a lot about the people that you interviewed for your book. But I want to ask you about a personal experience you had. You interviewed an executive for Warner Studios, and after that interview, a PR rep called and said that you had been mean during the interview.

MEA n mean. I'm curious how you responded to that.

MEA n mean. I'm curious how you responded to that.

Well, so I try not to be mean, right, I try to do a good job. I want to be a fair journalist, and sometimes being fair of means asking tough but fair questions. And I was shocked and actually really concerned when he said this. I really pride myself and have built my reputation on being incredibly fair and mean is such such a tough word. He also used the word harsh. He didn't use the bitch word, but I've been called that before as well. Oh my god, And so I was just really taken aback. And I think when I had been accused of similar things for prior interviews over the years, I used to really spiral out, and I think, oh my god, was I mean? Was my tone too harsh? And I not watch my tone? And I would go back and I watched the interview again, and then I'd pull on my colleagues, and my pure chief was as okay. And this time I'd seen a study because I was in the middle of writing my book when this happened. I'd seen a study about how women are more likely to be judged on their style than on their substance. And I also saw the state about how when women act in a way that is not warm and nurturing, they are perceived as like breaking that stereotype, and then it scrambles people's brain, scrambles men's brains mostly, And so this is a man who said this to me, And so I said, would you have said the same thing to one of my male colleagues? Because I know the tone that my male colleagues used to ask questions, And I feel like I could hear his jaw hit the floor. And I wasn't being mean in the way I was asking that. I was just like, seriously, would you have said the same thing to one of my male colleagues? And he's like, you know what, probably not. I didn't think about it that way. Wow, And it really made him pause and think. So that was a really empowering moment because I sort of stopped myself from criticizing myself and instead said, Hey, this guy's comment says everything about him and his perceptions and his biases, and very little about me and what I said in an interview.

Well, so I try not to be mean, right, I try to do a good job. I want to be a fair journalist, and sometimes being fair of means asking tough but fair questions. And I was shocked and actually really concerned when he said this. I really pride myself and have built my reputation on being incredibly fair and mean is such such a tough word. He also used the word harsh. He didn't use the bitch word, but I've been called that before as well. Oh my god, And so I was just really taken aback. And I think when I had been accused of similar things for prior interviews over the years, I used to really spiral out, and I think, oh my god, was I mean? Was my tone too harsh? And I not watch my tone? And I would go back and I watched the interview again, and then I'd pull on my colleagues, and my pure chief was as okay. And this time I'd seen a study because I was in the middle of writing my book when this happened. I'd seen a study about how women are more likely to be judged on their style than on their substance. And I also saw the state about how when women act in a way that is not warm and nurturing, they are perceived as like breaking that stereotype, and then it scrambles people's brain, scrambles men's brains mostly, And so this is a man who said this to me, And so I said, would you have said the same thing to one of my male colleagues? Because I know the tone that my male colleagues used to ask questions, And I feel like I could hear his jaw hit the floor. And I wasn't being mean in the way I was asking that. I was just like, seriously, would you have said the same thing to one of my male colleagues? And he's like, you know what, probably not. I didn't think about it that way. Wow, And it really made him pause and think. So that was a really empowering moment because I sort of stopped myself from criticizing myself and instead said, Hey, this guy's comment says everything about him and his perceptions and his biases, and very little about me and what I said in an interview.

Please tell me you sent him a signed copy of the book.

Please tell me you sent him a signed copy of the book.

No, he retired before the book came out, so I'm sure he's seen it.

No, he retired before the book came out, so I'm sure he's seen it.

Julia, there's still time. There's still time.

Julia, there's still time. There's still time.

I learned something from your book that I quote all the time, which is true.

I learned something from your book that I quote all the time, which is true.

Story. She's quoted it to me so fatter, which is yeah, it's true.

Story. She's quoted it to me so fatter, which is yeah, it's true.

So this is one of my favorite stats. It's how confidence looks different for men and women as we age.

So this is one of my favorite stats. It's how confidence looks different for men and women as we age.

Can you break that down for us?

Can you break that down for us?

So the statistic about confidence in this study is that when men and women graduate college and enter the workforce, men start off with a much higher level of confidence. So they're entering the workforce full of confidence. Their confidence is way up here. When women enter the workforce, their confidence is down here. Now, there's not necessarily a reason for that confidence gap other than what is socialized. But over time, men's confidence actually declines and women's confidence increases. Those lines cross around age forty. So round age forty is when women start to feel as confident as men, and the social scientists said that they think it's because women's confidence increases with age. Why is men's confidence decreasing. Maybe that's because they realize that their goals and home and aspirations we're really crazy and maybe unachievable, or as they're in the workforce, they realize how hard things are and so then it sort of levels out for men. But women's confidence continues to increase with age. But I love that stat because I'm over forty and I feel like my confidence is only increased with age, and I think it makes sense for confidence to increase with experience. And you see more women founding companies when they get older. Men tend to found companies out when they're younger, So it all plays out in some of the trends weras seeing in society. I also think there's.

So the statistic about confidence in this study is that when men and women graduate college and enter the workforce, men start off with a much higher level of confidence. So they're entering the workforce full of confidence. Their confidence is way up here. When women enter the workforce, their confidence is down here. Now, there's not necessarily a reason for that confidence gap other than what is socialized. But over time, men's confidence actually declines and women's confidence increases. Those lines cross around age forty. So round age forty is when women start to feel as confident as men, and the social scientists said that they think it's because women's confidence increases with age. Why is men's confidence decreasing. Maybe that's because they realize that their goals and home and aspirations we're really crazy and maybe unachievable, or as they're in the workforce, they realize how hard things are and so then it sort of levels out for men. But women's confidence continues to increase with age. But I love that stat because I'm over forty and I feel like my confidence is only increased with age, and I think it makes sense for confidence to increase with experience. And you see more women founding companies when they get older. Men tend to found companies out when they're younger, So it all plays out in some of the trends weras seeing in society. I also think there's.

A motherhood factor to that too, you know, just anecdotally speaking to moms. And obviously it's not every woman's calling to become a mom, and I love that for them, But for the women who do become moms, I think a lot of us feel this like superpower within us that gets unleashed because birthing a human, however you do it, or welcoming a child in your family is really like a superhuman feat and I think that spills over into other aspects of our lives.

A motherhood factor to that too, you know, just anecdotally speaking to moms. And obviously it's not every woman's calling to become a mom, and I love that for them, But for the women who do become moms, I think a lot of us feel this like superpower within us that gets unleashed because birthing a human, however you do it, or welcoming a child in your family is really like a superhuman feat and I think that spills over into other aspects of our lives.

And for me, I feel like becoming a mom having kids really helped me put things into perspective. Yes, so I think I used to get really anxious about little minute shit work, or I would really worry about something ahead of time, or I'd agonize about something after the fact. But having kids and being a mom, it really just helped me realize this is not that important. At the end of the day, I'm going back at work again tomorrow, and keeping this little human alive and happy is really is really the most important thing. So I found it very liberating personally to become a mom one hundred percent.

And for me, I feel like becoming a mom having kids really helped me put things into perspective. Yes, so I think I used to get really anxious about little minute shit work, or I would really worry about something ahead of time, or I'd agonize about something after the fact. But having kids and being a mom, it really just helped me realize this is not that important. At the end of the day, I'm going back at work again tomorrow, and keeping this little human alive and happy is really is really the most important thing. So I found it very liberating personally to become a mom one hundred percent.

Thinking back to something that you said earlier, which are those stories from older generations of women who remember working in an environment where this scarcity mindset was really ever present and feeling like there was only room for one woman at the top. And I think we all collectively feel like that is not the case anymore. So I'd love to discuss how we actually can be supportive of other women in the workplace, And one of your negotiating tips is to imagine that we're advocating a salary or pay on behalf of a friend. Oh, I like that, which is really powerful because sometimes we aren't great at advocating for ourselves.

Thinking back to something that you said earlier, which are those stories from older generations of women who remember working in an environment where this scarcity mindset was really ever present and feeling like there was only room for one woman at the top. And I think we all collectively feel like that is not the case anymore. So I'd love to discuss how we actually can be supportive of other women in the workplace, And one of your negotiating tips is to imagine that we're advocating a salary or pay on behalf of a friend. Oh, I like that, which is really powerful because sometimes we aren't great at advocating for ourselves.

Yes, So what they found is that the strongest negotiators are women, but negotiating on behalf of other people. There's a stereotype that men are great at negotiating, But the strongest negotiator is not a man negotiating on behalf of himself or a man negotiating on behalf someone else. The strongest negotiators of women negotiating on behalf of someone else. So that's great news. It means that women have negotiating skills. It means that they're afraid to unleash them on behalf of themselves because they think it would be greedy or rude. And so just knowing that you have that ability, it also is why women should coach each other and push each other and practice negotiating. Practice that conversation with your boss, brainstorm about it.

Yes, So what they found is that the strongest negotiators are women, but negotiating on behalf of other people. There's a stereotype that men are great at negotiating, But the strongest negotiator is not a man negotiating on behalf of himself or a man negotiating on behalf someone else. The strongest negotiators of women negotiating on behalf of someone else. So that's great news. It means that women have negotiating skills. It means that they're afraid to unleash them on behalf of themselves because they think it would be greedy or rude. And so just knowing that you have that ability, it also is why women should coach each other and push each other and practice negotiating. Practice that conversation with your boss, brainstorm about it.

Are there any other ways that we can advocate for each other in the workplace.

Are there any other ways that we can advocate for each other in the workplace.

The more women are an environment where they're in the minority, or the more you're in any situation where you're part of a minority group, it's really important to have a context where you could surround yourself with other people like you.

The more women are an environment where they're in the minority, or the more you're in any situation where you're part of a minority group, it's really important to have a context where you could surround yourself with other people like you.

If you're in a.

If you're in a.

Company that's eighty percent men and twenty percent women, or ninety percent people who are white and ten percent people of color, if you're in that minority group, you're going to inherently feel like I either don't belong here or wonder how I'm supposed to navigate being here. And there's actual research showing that it is valuable to be around other people like yourself, and so that's the value of micro environments. But at the same time, you need to have a bridge into the rest of the culture, and that's why I think it's so important that you have people who are like men should mentor women. I don't think that women should only seek out female mentors because there aren't enough senior women to go around. But I also think that sort of ties back to this conversation earlier about making sure you have your own personal and board of advisors to give you help. And I think that in navigating our workplaces, whatever it is, some of the best advice may come from someone in a totally different field, from a friend who doesn't work. Some of my best advices come from my friends who are stay at home moms, and they say, I remember this, or this reminds me of a situation, and even though they had a very different context than what the life is that I'm living at work, they had great advice. So I just feel like knowing that your support system and your advice could come from unexpected places is really important, and also helping you hold your friends accountable.

Company that's eighty percent men and twenty percent women, or ninety percent people who are white and ten percent people of color, if you're in that minority group, you're going to inherently feel like I either don't belong here or wonder how I'm supposed to navigate being here. And there's actual research showing that it is valuable to be around other people like yourself, and so that's the value of micro environments. But at the same time, you need to have a bridge into the rest of the culture, and that's why I think it's so important that you have people who are like men should mentor women. I don't think that women should only seek out female mentors because there aren't enough senior women to go around. But I also think that sort of ties back to this conversation earlier about making sure you have your own personal and board of advisors to give you help. And I think that in navigating our workplaces, whatever it is, some of the best advice may come from someone in a totally different field, from a friend who doesn't work. Some of my best advices come from my friends who are stay at home moms, and they say, I remember this, or this reminds me of a situation, and even though they had a very different context than what the life is that I'm living at work, they had great advice. So I just feel like knowing that your support system and your advice could come from unexpected places is really important, and also helping you hold your friends accountable.

Julia, you wrote this book two years ago now, which is wild. Is there any new research that's come out since then that you wish you could include in the book if it were being published today, would you add anything?

Julia, you wrote this book two years ago now, which is wild. Is there any new research that's come out since then that you wish you could include in the book if it were being published today, would you add anything?

Well, it's obviously we're at a turning point right now because we have the second female candidate for president, which to me is almost more important from a sort of contextual standpoint, because there was so much focus on Hillary Clinton as the first female presidential candidate. Now you really see Kamala Harris trying not to make that part of the conversation. Obviously, we're very aware that she would the first if she were to be elected in the second to be the candidate. But I think that what we're seeing right now is this question of like, when can we get to a place of normalcy of seeing a woman who's running to be president not have it be such an unusual thing anymore.

Well, it's obviously we're at a turning point right now because we have the second female candidate for president, which to me is almost more important from a sort of contextual standpoint, because there was so much focus on Hillary Clinton as the first female presidential candidate. Now you really see Kamala Harris trying not to make that part of the conversation. Obviously, we're very aware that she would the first if she were to be elected in the second to be the candidate. But I think that what we're seeing right now is this question of like, when can we get to a place of normalcy of seeing a woman who's running to be president not have it be such an unusual thing anymore.

Oh my gosh, I just thought of one last question for you. What is the best way to sign off an email?

Oh my gosh, I just thought of one last question for you. What is the best way to sign off an email?

Oh? Man, I'm a thanks person.

Oh? Man, I'm a thanks person.

You're a thanks person.

You're a thanks person.

Okay, I'm a thanks thanks. I also use a lot of exclamation marks, which people find sometimes confusing. But I love a good exclamation mark.

Okay, I'm a thanks thanks. I also use a lot of exclamation marks, which people find sometimes confusing. But I love a good exclamation mark.

I love the intonation in which you said thanks, thanks, thanks.

I love the intonation in which you said thanks, thanks, thanks.

I'm a best kind of girl, your best most of the time, I'm the best. If I have an affinity towards the person, it'll be a warmly formally, it'll be a warmly.

I'm a best kind of girl, your best most of the time, I'm the best. If I have an affinity towards the person, it'll be a warmly formally, it'll be a warmly.

Interesting how about you. I do a slower case X and then just my name, okay, or it's really yeah, it's really personal.

Interesting how about you. I do a slower case X and then just my name, okay, or it's really yeah, it's really personal.

I like that.

I like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sometimes a little too personal.

Sometimes a little too personal.

I think like I'm emailing people and it's like, why are you hugging and kissing me via this email?

I think like I'm emailing people and it's like, why are you hugging and kissing me via this email?

But who I am? Julia?

But who I am? Julia?

Thank you so much for joining us today and for your insights in your heart.

Thank you so much for joining us today and for your insights in your heart.

It was really my pleasure. Thank you.

It was really my pleasure. Thank you.

Julia Borston is CNBC's senior media and Tech correspondent and the author of When Women Lead, What they achieve, why they succeed, and how we can learn from them.

Julia Borston is CNBC's senior media and Tech correspondent and the author of When Women Lead, What they achieve, why they succeed, and how we can learn from them.

That's it for today's show.

That's it for today's show.

Tomorrow, we're back with another edition of Wellness Wednesday.

Tomorrow, we're back with another edition of Wellness Wednesday.

You don't want to miss it.

You don't want to miss it.

Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Simone Boyce. You can find me at Simone Voice on Instagram and TikTok.

I'm Simone Boyce. You can find me at Simone Voice on Instagram and TikTok.

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I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok.

That's ro b a Y. We'll see you tomorrow. Keep looking on the bright side.

That's ro b a Y. We'll see you tomorrow. Keep looking on the bright side.