Sara Jane Ho Wants You to Mind Your Manners

Published Aug 8, 2024, 7:01 AM

How do I make a good first impression? What's the polite way to end an awkward first date? Manners expert and self-described “Miss Manners with a touch of Machiavelli” Sara Jane Ho has the answers. She’s the host of Netflix’s “Mind Your Manners” and the founder of an etiquette school in China and she’s on a mission to help women move confidently through the world. She joins The Bright Side to empower our besties with practical etiquette tips to get you ahead in life.

Hey, Bessie's Hello Sunshine.

Today on the bright Side, join us for a crash course in navigating tricky social situations with the etiquette expert Sarah Jane Hoe. From mastering the proper way to split a birthday dinner bill to how to exit a conversation at a party without any awkwardness. Tune in and level up your social skills with style and even a little humor. It's Thursday, August eighth. I'm Danielle Robe and.

I'm Simone Voice, and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to share women's stories, lave, learn and brighten your day.

Manners Manners, Manners, Etiquette, ECTICU Connectiquette. How do you feel, Simone?

Okay, here's my question about modern etiquette, Danielle. Do you find yourself more often than not pleasantly surprised by other people and their etiquette or unfortunately disappointed.

I'm gonna be honest, I am constantly shocked by people's lack of manners and etiquette.

I'm so glad you said that, because I feel the exact same way. Really, yes, I feel like where is everyone's mother's like who raised you?

And fathers. Yes, where did where did they come from? Like, I don't understand why basic things that I guess you and I take for granted are not practiced in society. I find it constantly in airports and airplanes because like the worst of people come out. It's like animalistic on an airplane.

Yeah, this is true.

But even basic stuff like holding doors or saying excuse me if you knock into somebody. I found it. It's gotten worse since COVID.

Yes, this is true. Well, okay, when you said airplanes made me think of our debate that we were having the other day in Nashville. I knew, So are you gonna bring this up public? We're gonna bring it up. Okay, settle a debate for us, everyone right side? Besties? Can you take your shoes off on a plane. My approach is you can take them off as long as you have like some civilized cute socks to wear. Maybe you know airplane socks. What do you think?

So that's team Simone. If your team Danielle, you feel like it's never okay to take your shoes off on an airplane. The only time I think it's okay is if you're in your own little pod. Like if you are lucky in sitting in business class or first class and no one's around you, it's okay. If you are in coach with me, you better keep your shoes on.

Okay, But what about like a twenty hour flight from here to Asia? Would you not take off your shoes on a twenty four hour flight?

I flew to Japan and China and I kept my shoes on.

Why do you have such strong airplane etiquette, Danielle? Where does this come from?

I think there's different etiquette for when you are alone somewhere versus when you are sharing space with other people, and there's certain things you just don't do. Like your feet are probably a little smelly, don't like I don't want to see them outside of your shoes. We wear shoes in public for a reason.

Just get some of that lavender magnesium spray and then everyone will be happy. Okay. I recently wore pajamas on the plane. What do you think about that? Were you silently judging me? No?

I actually loved it. The pajamas were very cute. And also what you wear doesn't affect me, So I'm good with whatever you want to do. But once you take your feet out of your shoes, it starts to affect me.

Okay, so your thing is airplane etiquette for me. I think people be acting a full round birthdays. I just think that the expectations are two great nowadays. I think people are expecting the attendees to shell out a lot of money for something that happens every single year, same day, same time. And I think we see this same pattern when it comes to weddings and bridal parties and bachelorette parties. Like, my kind of people are the people who are really just gracious and understanding of the fact that everyone is coming into the celebration with a different level of means. And I think being a good friend and having good etiquette means being conscious of that. Yeah, that's why we are so happy that we have Sarah Jane Hoe here today because she is going to settle many a score for us. She's a Harvard Business School grad, the founder of an etiquette school in China, and really, at the end of the day, here's her why. She says she's on a mission to help women move through the world more confidently and often. That can include improving our manners or learning more about manners internationally. I mean, she's lived all around the world and she brings that lived experience when she explores how culture impacts different social norms.

And speaking of those social norms, here's a fun fact post. Malone once reached out to her on his trip to Asia to ask her how to navigate some of those social differences. So she is really the go to expert. And here's what I particularly love about her work. Yes, manners and etiquette are about decorum, but they are also about our relationships. Sarah Jane Hoe says, manners actually create ease, which elevate our connections. So let's get into it. After the break, We're talking modern manners with etiquette expert Sarah Jane Hoe.

Stick with us, Sarah Jane, Welcome to the bright Side.

Thank you, thank you for having me. Ladies.

Sarah Jane Simone and I were just talking about the lack of manners and etiquette that we see play out in our own lives when it comes to birthdays and airports. But we want your expert opinion on a different scenario. We've both experienced this. Okay, let's say I'm at a party and I want to end a conversation with somebody. What is the most polite way to do that?

Well, the great thing is you're at a party, so you can use other people as props, and as long as you're able to do it in an agreeable tone. I mean usually, Like, the thing is that you don't want to leave someone alone, right, So what I would say is, so I'm gonna go meet my friend, would you like to come with me? And then usually you'll kind of lose them in the crowd. I love that, right, you speak yeah, and you know, listen, Like, I'm not pretending to be miss goody two shoes. I'm mismattered with a touch of Machi belli. So okay, we got to be practical. I'm not telling anybody how to be a good person. Like, how you want to live your life is up to you. I'm just giving you etiquette tips, practical tips that can help you get ahead in your life.

That's interesting, Well, that little machiavellian portion reminds me of some research that you've presented. You've said that it can take as little as a second and up to two minutes for someone to make a first impression. What is the secret to making a good first impression? How do you make the most of it?

Well, you know, if it's less than a second, that's before you even open your mouth. And so that's visually.

How are you presenting yourself?

So what are we talking about with the visuals? Is it posture? Is it the way you're dressed?

Yeah, I mean it could be body language. So for example, are you approaching people like with closed body language? And just things like if you're wearing glasses, your glasses dirty and stained.

Or are they clean?

Right?

It is your hair greasy? Basic hygiene is a huge thing. So hair, skin, face, nails, all these things. Is your manicure half grown out? You know, I don't do manicures on my fingers because I'm really sporty, so I'm always breaking something. And then if you don't up keep it straight away, then it looks you know, you're looking behind.

Yeah, so we've got the visual component of the first impression. What comes next.

Eye contact and smile? You know, there's something funny about smiling. Plusly, it costs you nothing. Secondly, it's behavior from the outside in. So if we all smile now, right, big smile, it actually makes you feel happier, even if you want into originally feeling that happy.

You also want to smile back. It's like a compulsion.

Yes, and babies and this is in research before they even know how to speak. If you smile a baby from no matter where they are in the world, they will smile back at you. It's the one universal language. And so to me, it's establishing a rapport. It's positive energy. It brings so much joy to the other person, right, they immediately feel like smiling back. And I say, because some people like, oh what if the other person doesn't smile back? What if they ignore me? You know what, that's more of their issue than yours, because they may be having a bad day or they're probably just not a very confident or happy person, and that's not your problem.

Yeah, well said, etiquette has a lot to do with ease, and that makes me think of putting people at ease and our connections and our relationships with people. How do you think understanding manners and etiquette helps strengthen those relationships and those connections.

Yeah, Sometimes people will come up to me and they'll say, Sir Jane, I have really bad etiquette because I'm too honest. But that person doesn't exactly understand the meaning of etiquette, because etiquete should not be restricting people thinking, Oh, it means that I can't say what I feel, I can't do what I want, I can't say I noticed something, I countant boundaries. But actually etiquette empowers you to, let's say, in a networking reception or a cocktail or a party, identify somebody who's interesting to you, or maybe a perspective customer that you want to approach. You have the tools and confidence to go approach them, introduce yourself, initiate conversation. You also have the sensitivity to know when you should end a conversation with that person, so you're not hogging their time when everybody should be mingling, and you know how to end the conversation a way that makes them want to see you again, that doesn't offend, that's elegant, that makes them open to leaving you their contact information.

What should we do in that scenario. Let's say, because this is actually really valuable advice, I go to events all the time. Let's say there's someone across the room that I want to go up and introduce myself to. What is the best way to do that.

Well, first you have to see is this person alone or are they in a one on one conversation where it's just two of them, or are they in a bigger group conversation. And because if they're one on one in a really intense convo, then you might want to wait till they've broken that up, right, And then the first thing you should do is go over there, hover, get eye contact. Once you have eye contact, then everything else is easy. Right. You immediately smile. That should be like your reflex after making eye contact with someone, and then immediately say Hi, you know I'm I'm Sarah Jane Hoe. I've been following your work and I'm really intrigued.

I just wanted to introduce myself.

If you don't follow all those things back to back, then you're in this awkward position where, Okay, you've made eye contact, the person knows you're there, but then you haven't jumped in and introduced yourself, right, and you're kind of left hanging.

And if you jump in with like a whole story about their work before you introduce yourself, it gets a little awkward too, totally.

So you want to say enough where they're interested, but not too much where like it just becomes a one sided monologue.

Right, yeah, also can look too thirsty that way.

Exactly.

Yeah, You've lived all the world, Papua New Guinea, the UK, the US, Taiwan, Hong Kong. How has living in all these different cultures influenced your approach to etiquette?

You know what's funny Because my dad he did oil exploration, and that's why we lived in Papua New Guinea, which is between Indonesia and Australia. I was conceived there. I spent the first few years of my life there. I would run around buck naked. And then I had to move to the UK and that was about the age where I started going to school. I had to wear a pinafore for uniform, a little bowling hat, and proper shoes, and I didn't like to wear shoes. My parents used to complain that they really struggled to keep me fully clothed in the UK because I was so accustomed to running aroun naked on a beach in pap New Guinea.

And then when I.

Moved from the UK to Asia, to China or to Taiwan and Hong Kong, I got there and I was like, WHOA, what's what are these Chinese people doing?

Because I thought I was white because.

I lived in the UK at that time, and everybody at my school was like, you know English, and my parent and had to tell me that you are Chinese. But then what began as a survival tool for me, right, just going to such different foreign places and acclimating then became my life's work. And I often say, in fact, I begin my book Mind Your Manners the book by saying that I see myself as a microcultural anthropologist. Anthropology is a study of human behavior, and each day all of us move across multiple microcultures, whether it's at school, in the office, at home, in the office. Different departments could be different microcultures. Accounting could be more quiet and reserved. Advertising is maybe more rowdy. Right, And each time I'm in a new microculture or meeting somebody new or in a new country, the first thing I'm doing is seeing myself as in the field, which is observation really, and I'm thinking, what are the codes of conduct here, how people dressed, what is the volume they're speaking at, what's the sline they're using, And I'm just suggusting myself ever so slightly so that they feel comfortable around me, which makes me feel comfortable around them, which actually is human beings.

Is what we want, that sense of belonging and community.

Is there a piece of etiquette advice that's outdated for today's world? Is there, you know, like an etiquette practice that we can just get rid of and throughout the window?

Now at this point, ooh, so I say that etiquette changes every five years. I'd say before it used to be every ten years. But with the digital age, huh, everything's quicker, So every five years something is being outdated. So, for example, one off the top of my head, because I was just asked about this and in a recent interview, is how necessary is it to have handwritten notes?

Handwritten thank you letters?

Right?

Should you handwrite a thank you letter? Should you email a thank you letter? I said, it really depends. I mean, if let's say you're interviewing for a tech company or finance company and you send the interviewer a handwritten one, Firstly, it may take a couple days before they receive it, and secondly, you might seem out of touch because it's a tech company or a finance company. And whereas if let's say you just had to spend a nice vacation with a family, friend or somebody who's older.

Then you might want to write a handwritten letter.

So when some people say yes, everything has to be a handwritten thank you note, maybe fifteen years ago, but not today necessarily.

So in tandem with this, let's talk about gift giving, because what I'm learning from you is that it's part thoughtfulness and part context. How do you determine the right gift for every occasion? Are there questions that you can ask yourself?

Yeah, well, of course, the more you know about the receiver, the better. And then one thing that I talked about with gift giving that a lot of people that caught a lot of attention recently and I didn't anticipate would catch so much attention, is how people from different cultures, how they open their gifts. In Asian countries, if somebody gives me a gift, if I open it in front of them, it's usually seen as being greedy and having no self restraint. So if I were in an Asian country and somebody from Asia I gave me a gift, I would receive it, put it away, not give it any attention until they left right, and then open it then. Whereas in the States, if an American friend gives me a gift, I open up the cod right, make a huge fuss of it, read it out what like, line by line, and then ooh and ah over the packaging, undo the ribbon, open it up and say, oh my gosh, that's exactly what I wanted for my South of France summer vacation.

That American accent.

I've spent enough time in the States.

And then and then when I do wear it or use it, I take a picture of it, post on Instagram stories and tag.

Them, oh, yeah, that's me. I want to know that you liked it. I want you to open it in front of me. I want you to make a big deal. I want all the fanfare.

But what you're talking about, too, is the etiquette of being a good receiver. Because I feel like I'm not as great of a receiver. I get embarrassed if I said my mom anything she called, oh, I love the color and I'm gonna wear it here. She's so specific. And I try and learn from that because it is your right. Somm like. It is really nice to hear feedback about again.

You want you want to feed the ego of the giver.

Right, These are such great tips Okay, we need to take a quick break, but when we come back, Etiquette Expert Sarah Jane Hoe, we'll share some advice on how to handle splitting the bill at a group dinner, how to politely end an awkward first date, and so much more. Stay with us. We're back with etiquette Expert Sarah Jane Hoe.

Okay, you've shared such great advice today, so we want to get your take on some sticky social situation.

Who bring it on?

You're okay with that?

Yep?

Okay, I'm gonna come out the gate pretty hot disciplining other people's children. So I'm gonna give you the situation. You're on an airplane. The family in front of you has two boys, ages five and seven. They're playing loud video games, lots of music, lots of dinging, and you've politely asked the parents if the children have headphones. They sort of dismiss you. What's the next step?

Cool for the stewardo stewardess and tell them privately, say there's a huge ruckusts over there, because it needs to come from a place of authority, Okay, And if they say it, it's because clearly you tried it didn't work.

And if they say it, then it should have more effect.

Okay, I have a question about group dinner etiquette. People have different budgets. Some people don't drink, others have food sensitivities. How do you politely request to itemize a bill at a restaurant if you're uncomfortable with the financial expectation.

Yeah, we've all been there. Maybe we came to the dinner late. Maybe we only had a main course, whereas another person had like five drinks.

Right, so they make up eighty percent of the bill. And so here's the thing.

If you're going to a group event, you kind of just have to buy the bullet and expect that it's not going to be sent for cent. But that's my personal thing is like, Okay, I'm gonna buy the bullet like it's a group thing.

This is what I expect.

I did an Instagram video on this, yeah, and got a lot of backlash about people being like, no, I only ate twenty one dollars worth, so I'm not gonna nobody should coerce me into pay more. And then ideally you have cash, because when you have credit card, it's very you don't want to be that one person amongst ten credit card, right, like, you know, holding the hostess up by like fifteen minutes.

Yeah, we've all either been that friend or been with that friend.

Right, So then you you say, guys, I only had a Maine and it's twenty I'm gonna put in twenty five to include tip, and so here's my cash, you guys put the rest right, you have to bring cash.

I want to know what some of your other hot take etiquette videos are. What are what are the videos the social videos that elicit the most responses and controversy.

Well, oh, here was a fun one and it actually showed cultural context. So I get a lot of dms with questions and so I answer them by video. One of them was I often forget someone's name at a party or someone comes up to me, I forgot the name.

How should I deal with it?

And in my answer I said, I will never admit confess to letting on that I've forgotten who they are, and so I will say so some of the comments with you say oh, Sarah Jane, like so good to you again, and I'll be like, yes, gosh, when was the last time we met again? So I'm not lying, right, but I'm trying to ask for clues and hues so I can place them, and then, you know, maybe the most I'll ask somebody else what was their name? Or I'll say if I'm really desperate, if there's nobody else around, I'll say, yes, of course.

I remember, So what was your name? Again?

So I remember them, but I just didn't remember the name. And then there was some comments on that Instagram that said, oh, like why would you lie? You should just straight up and say, oh, I don't remember you, what's your name?

You have to lie sometimes that's etiquette.

And so and yeah.

So I was like, this is really interesting, and there were quite a number of comments saying like, oh, you shouldn't lie. It's bad to lie. It's bad to lie, like da da da da da. Just just it's as simple as that. Just be like I'm sorry, I forgot who you are?

What's your name?

And so I thought, and I was like, well, this is super interesting. And then I respond to the comments and I said, maybe this is a cultural difference because I'm from Asia, and in Asia there's a huge thing about giving people face. You don't want to let other people lose face, so embarrassing them losing face, I mean it's you would rather like lie and say you remember them, whereas like if you say, what is your name? I forgot who you are. That's the ultimate offense. That's like telling people they're worthless and they're nobody in Asian cultures, whereas and I said, maybe in an American culture, maybe it's okay.

I always bring a friend over and introduce them. That's my hack.

It's the best hack.

And then they I get them to say their name so I can record it exactly. Nobody knows they're none the wiser.

That's the number one go to tip.

Okay, Sarah Jane, we have some listener questions for you.

Love listening to questions. Let's hear it first step.

Hi, sar Jeane, thank you so much for taking my question. My name is Emma, and I am out there. I'm trying to date, but it's pretty exhausting and I just want to know what's a way that I can gracefully excuse myself from a date when I realize there's not a connection. And I'm not talking about the minute I sit down. I'm just saying I've had one drink, it's not working. How do I call a quick ending to the encounter.

Thanks so much, Emma, I love you, I am you.

I am so happy you asked this, Sarah Jane.

What do you think?

Yeah, And so this is why for first dates, you never wanted to be dinner or a meal or something where you're forced to spend you know, sixty to ninety minutes. So smart a coffee or a drink is the best way to go. I would even say stall with coffee because you want to see what they look like in daytime, and with drinks so you can still control that. But it just feels like drinks may need to be longer than a coffee. Now, I would say, even with a coffee, at least give it fifteen minutes, Like, you know, the person put.

Their face on, put their clothes on, they traveled over here to meet you.

Fifteen is very short.

I'm saying minimum. That's what I've done on a first date. About maybe I probably did twenty minutes. Was when I then looked at my watch and I said, well, you know, it was thank you so much for.

Coming out and meeting with me.

And what do you have planned for the rest of the day. Hey, listen, like there's only twenty four hours in a day. If you want to give longer, if you have more time in your day, you want to give thirty minutes, you want to give forty five minutes, that's up to you. But the best way to end it is to then ask them, well, it was so great meeting you, so what do you have planned for the rest of the day, because that pushes them there attention from like being on you to oh I need to go pick up my kids. Oh I need to you know, go to the post office or run an errand, and then you maybe look at your watch say oh, gosh, like I just realized, like I need to go back and meet at four o'clock deadline something for my boss that they wanted. If that's still talking, but I'm in a rush, I don't want it to be too abrupt, so I'll say, oh, let's walk in talk, let's walk to our cause that's a good one.

Right up, next, we've got a question from a Sebastian in Los Angeles.

Either My name is Sebastian and I just had a quick question on proper host etiquette.

How do you.

Politely uninvite someone from a party that you had previously invited while still maintaining your friendship with them and doing so in a polite manner.

Listen, we've all been there when we're like, ah, Okay, maybe I should have invited this person. It really is bad etiquette to disinvite them. But what you can say is you can say something like, oh, we've moved the meal. We're postponing the dinner because the guests of honor can't make it, or like blah blah blah.

This only works if they don't know the other people.

Who are coming right then you can say, ah, I'm moving the meal to another day. I'll let you know when it is, and then you just don't let them know when the other days, or you wait till another time when it's better to invite them and you include them.

If they do know.

The other people going, then that can be awkward. It also depends like, are you what's the reason that you're uninviting them for? Have they done something to greatly offend you in the interim? In that case, you can be honest. You can say, listen, like what you did to me for blah blah blah really hurt me. I'm not ready to see you or speak to you right now, and I'm not comfortable with you coming to my dinner anymore.

I need some time and I'll reach out when I'm ready.

Yeah.

Right.

If let's say they didn't do anything and you just want to uninvite them from the dinner, that's a little trickier. Just make sure you don't post on social media and make sure everybody else is in the no. But then the risk with that is it could get back to them.

I that that's really good.

Thank you so much, great, thank you, Simone, Thank you, Danielle.

Thank you so much.

Sarah Jane Sarah Jane Hoe is an author, et aiquidd expert, and Daytime Emmy nominated host of Mine Your Manners on Netflix.

That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're popping off with Taren Delaney Smith and achiang Agutu, co hosts of Hello, Sunshine's new talk show.

Influenced Listen and Follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Simone Voice. You can find me at Simone Voice on Instagram and TikTok.

I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. That's ro b a Y.

We'll see you tomorrow, keep looking on the bright side,

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