Dr. Aditi Nerurkar is a leading expert in stress management and resilience. She joins the show to give actionable advice on navigating stress and burnout, and finding joy amidst life's challenges. She lays out how stress impacts our bodies, the differences between healthy and unhealthy stress, and gives practical techniques like "stop, breathe, be" to manage stress in real time. Dr. Nerurkar shares insights from her book "The Five Resets: Rewire Your Brain and Body for Less Stress and More Resilience.”
Hey bam, Hello sunshine. Today on the bright Side, it's Wellness Wednesday, and we're talking stress with physician and public health expert doctor Aditina Rucar. We're learning about how stress shows up in our bodies and actual tools to help manage it right in the moment. It's Wednesday, June twenty sixth.
I'm Danielle Robe and I'm Simone Voice, and this is the bright side from Hello Sunshine, see money.
I came across the statistic that really shocked me. Tell me, thirty four percent of Americans reported that their stress is completely overwhelming on most days. So I imagine that a majority of people deal with stress on a daily basis.
I know I do.
But to think that over a quarter of the population feels just completely overwhelmed by it daily, that's pretty concerning.
It makes me wonder what more can we do to control it and to treat it and to manage it. I mean, I certainly have my days, but I'm at the stage in my life, Danielle where my stress, in my burnout isn't as much related to my career. It's really my home life. It's like being a parent, you know, it's managing a home it's all of those things.
How about you.
I totally get that. You know, I actually don't notice that I'm stressed. I had a therapist tell me that I don't notice that I'm anxious because I've just run anxious.
My whole life.
I guess, but I don't like feel it in my body. Really, I never considered myself a stressed out person. And then I'll take a vacation and I wake up by the beach or not having all the to do lists, and I realize how stressed I actually am that I'm running at such a high meter all the time.
Do you ever have that one hundred percent? Well, I think a lot of the stress that's in our lives is because we overschedule ourselves. I was recently researching happiness, and the only way to allow room for spontaneity and serendipity in our life, which creates more happiness is to move away from overscheduling to allow room for flexibility and looseness. I think that's kind of a way that we can treat stress too.
I love that you said that because I actually interviewed somebody on happiness and they said, it's not about trying to get more time it's about making the time you have rich.
But we've got a lot of theories as always, Danielle, there's no shortage of theories between us. But today it's time to get answers, and we're going straight to doctor Aditi Narukar for that. She's a physician at the Harvard Medical School, a mental health expert who specializes in stress management, resilience, and burnout, and she says she strives to leave people feeling optimistic and empowered to make meaningful changes in their lives by understanding stress and managing it. I think it starts with making small, meaningful changes that have a lasting, cumulative effect.
Doctor Narukar is the author of the Five Resets Rewire Your Brain and Body for Less Stress and More Resilience. In her book, she offers bite sized, yet actionable resets to implement into our everyday lives.
Danielle, let's get right to it. I think we could use some stress help right now, so we're going to bring in doctor a Dt. Doctor a DT, welcome to the bright Side.
I am so happy to be here with both of you.
We are so happy to have you, and you are a leading expert in the study of stress and resilience. So we have a ton of questions about how better to identify and cope with stress. But before we get into solutions, will you talk about stress from a physiological standpoint, like what is happening in our bodies when we feel stressed.
When you are feeling a sense of stress, your brain is led by the amygdala. It is a small almond shape structure deep in the brain, and its main purpose is survival and self preservation. Your amygdalah turns on when you feel a sense of stress because it is trying to keep you safe. What's fascinating about the science is that there are two kinds of stress, and not all stress is created equal. You have the healthy, positive, good kind of stress, and then you have the unhealthy negative stress. So when you and I and everyone say, you know, I'm having a stressful day, It's been a really hard week and I'm so stressed, what we're talking about is that bad kind of unhealthy stress. In scientific terms, it's known as maladaptive stress. The healthy kind of stress is known as adaptive stress. Healthy positive stress moves your life forward. Examples are maybe rooting for your favorite sports team, falling in love, getting a new house, or buying a new car, graduating, all of these things, meeting your new best friend. All of these things are positive, healthy things that happen in your life, and they help move your life forward. Unhealthy stress is what causes the problems, both mental and physical.
The goal of life.
Is not to live a life with zero stress. It's actually biologically impossible to do that. I live a life with healthy, manageable stress that can serve you rather than harve you.
I'm stuck on this idea of good stress. I don't know that I understand it because I've always associated stress with a negative connotation in my mind. So can you elaborate on how we reframe how to think about stress. Is it similar to cholesterol, where there's good stress and bad stress.
That's a great analogy. I love it.
So when you and I, Simone, or you know, you're talking to your friends, your colleagues, you're like, oh my god. If you and Danielle are having a tough week. On the bright side, you have a lot of interviews and many things happening, You're like, wow, this is a really stressful week. We use the word stress, we throw it around in everyday language, and it's actually maladaptive stress that we're talking about, but the good kind of stress. The reason good stress even exists for the brain in the body is because your brain needs time and space to adapt to a change, even if it's something positive. That is why change is considered a stress to the brain. Even positive change is energy.
A way to think of stress. When you were telling me about all those positive changes, I was thinking about like energetic momentum.
Yeah, So you know, in physics especially, there is that potential energy and kinetic energy.
Right, potential energy.
Is still and stagnant, and then kinetic energy is energy in motion. And your brain doesn't know the difference between being excited or being fearful. And so what you can do when you're thinking about the energy of you know, new changes in your life or new events in your life. When you feel that sense of fear, the energy of fear, you can transform it into the energy of excitement by just reframing that conversation.
In your head. But it has to be within a certain bounds.
Meaning, if that stress is this runaway train that's just going on and on, it's hard to feel a sense of excitement, right because you are so overwhelmed with your stress your brain and your body because the mind body connection, that amygdala is like volume twenty, and so you want to get that amygdalah back to volume five and hopefully off all together so that it feels that that healthy stress that you have can feel productive and beneficial to your life and it can help you thrive rather than just merely being in survival mode.
I want to talk about the mind body connection a little more because we talked about where stress lives in the body, But how do you recognize it in your body? Because I think it could be confused maybe with anxiety. Do you feel it in your gut? How do you know when you're stressed out?
That is the million dollar question, because there are truly one million flavors of stress and everyone has a different manifestation. I like to say that it's the canary in the coal mine, and we all have a canary song. And you know, historically coal miners going down into the minds, they would bring a canary with them, and the canary a bird would sing and the minute the air got bad, the singing would stop, and then they would say, oh wait a second, it's time to get out of the coal mines. And we all have a canary song, you know. For me, I was a stress patient before I became an expert in stress, and my canary song was a stampede of wild horses. It felt like my chesty palpitations. For other people, their canary song could be headaches or dizziness, fatigue, abdominal pain, feeling anxious or irritable, a sense of hypervigilance, being quick to anger head to toe. There are so many things that your body can do in terms of signs and symptoms. Of course, the first is to always talk to your doctor to see what the cause of your whatever sign is. And then often if there is no cause, we say it's a diagnosis of exclusion. That's what we say stress is. And surprisingly, sixty to eighty percent of all doctors' visits here in the US have a stress related component. Even though only three percent of doctors counsel their patients for stress.
That's a huge percentage.
We're taking a quick break, but when we come back, doctor Narukar tells us how we can rewire our brain to experience less stress, and we're back with doctor Narukar. Okay, doctor, it is very clear to me that some people exhibit high stress and some people are just really care free. Are there one, two, or three things that you think the average person can do to lower their stress levels.
Of the many things that you could do, you can do something called stop Breathe B. It's a three second exercise. It can help reset your stress and help to rewire your brain and body over time. That's what you want to do, and we can do it together. You stop whatever you're doing, you breathe, Take a deep breath in and out, and you be so you think about your body if you are standing up, or maybe you're doing dishes, or in the morning when you're getting your kids ready for school, or right before you know you click join zoom.
That's a great time.
To do it because you want to practice stop breathe B the three second reset right before a mundane, repetitive task.
The more mundane the better.
Something that you're about to start that's going to bring a cascade and flood of stress and negative emotions. And so stop breathebe can work because it taps into your mind body connection. It gets you out of that what if thinking future doom and gloom the amygdala, and back to what is in the here and now. It grounds you in the present moment. And if you practice stop Breathe B throughout the day. I used to practice at twenty thirty times throughout the day at different moments, it can help decrease your sense of anxiety and overwhelm that feeling of hypervigilance anxiousness, and in time tap into your mind body connection.
So the more that we practice these stress relieving techniques like stop Breathe B, the easier it becomes to regulate stress in the body and mind.
That's right.
There is this term called neuroplasticity. It's a very long, fancy medical word. It simply means that your brain is a muscle. So just like you would train a bicep, you would do you know, ten bicep curls, and you'd fatigue, and then the next day maybe you would do twenty, and over time you can get stronger with your muscles, your biceps. Your brain can do the same thing. And so as you keep practicing stop Breathe B and all the other techniques that you do to rewire your brain for less stress, what happens over time is that that information in your brain goes from like a one lane dirt road into this like eight Lane Highway.
I came across this survey from twenty twenty one that really struck me. It was surveyed fifteen hundred workers and found that more than half of them felt burned out from their jobs. Women have reported higher levels of burnout than men, and as of twenty twenty one, that gap had more than doubled. Is there a difference between stress and burnout?
You can think of it this way.
Stress is a short term thing, right, Like, ideally you have stress, it's something that happens and you come back to baseline, and burnout is what happens when that baseline is never reached. It's just this ongoing stress. So that's what increases your risk of burnout. The fascinating thing about burnout over the past several years is that the definition has really changed. So back in twenty nineteen is when it was finally recognized by the WHO as an occupational phenomenon and it was recognized as like a real clinical syndrome. It finally gave a name to something that many workers were feeling. But over the past several years, what burnout looks like in the face of burn has really changed. So when you think about classical symptoms of burnout, you think of someone who's apathetic or disengage, not very motivated, lethargic. So in one most recent study, sixty percent of people with burnout had an inability to disconnect from work as their main feature. But increasingly, it's burnout is becoming difficult to identify in yourself and others, simply because what burnout looks like has really changed.
Women have reported higher levels of burnout than men for years. Some of the reasons I've heard are that women are more likely to be heads of single parent families, more likely to take on unpaid labor, less likely to be promoted than men, so there's financial stress. Do women biologically, physiologically experience burnout different than men?
I will say that there is nothing inherently different in a woman's biology and a men's biology in terms of stress and burnout. However, we are socialized to experience burnout and stress differently, many of us women. We really abide by this resilience myth that if you are feeling burnt out, you must not be that resilient, which is a complete myth because we know that even amongst the most resilient people, thirty percent still experience burnout. So resilience is protective, but it's not enough to prevent burnout. And the second thing that many women and people in general, but particularly women face is this idea of toxic resilience, which is, you've heard of toxic positivity, but toxic resilience is a manifestation of hustle culture is pushing past boundaries, productivity at all costs, and inability to say no. And true resilience leans into this idea of self compassion and giving yourself grace. Toxic resilience doesn't. What does toxic resilience look like? Just look around you know, you can take on that extra deadline.
You're resilient.
Or you can manage take care of your kids and working at full speed. You're resilient. You don't need my help, You're resilient. These are messages of toxic resilience, and so we really need to reframe the conversation not just about stress and good stress and bad stress, but also resilience, like what is true resilience? What is toxic resilience? And especially when it comes to women, we are so prone sidally because of infrastructure, to really get so down on ourselves, but in fact you are resilient humans, individuals and women. We are resilient. It's the systems that are burning us out.
I have interviewed a few people on burnout, mostly because I always thought that it was sort of like a false term. I kind of put it in the box of gen Z kids who were overly emotional or weak. And then I experienced it myself. And I hate to admit that I had to experience it to believe it, but I did for this, and I realized that the antidote to burnout is not rest, it's actually joy and connection.
Yeah, I mean you need a complete overhaul, right, Like so often people say, oh, like you're burnt out. I mean that's what happened with me when I was going through my stress struggle.
My doctor.
I went to see my doctor. She did the full work up and said, oh, you're just really stressed. You're probably burnt out. Just try to relax more. So, you know, I did all of those things. I watched movies, retail therapy, hung out with friends, spend time with family.
Bought a nice leather jacket.
Yeah, you know, I was like, oh, this is relaxing, right, But nothing was working, and so what really shifted for me is when I understood the science of what happens to the brain and the body with stress and burnout and how you can actively change. So the antidote to burnout is yes, joy and purpose. But when you are feeling that sense of burnout, like when you are running on complete fumes, if you say to that person, as I have, you know many of my patients, right, just find some joy and purpose. It feels very difficult because it feels like that's the top of the mountain and I'm so not there right now. Instead, you know, try to focus on your sleep. So really protect your sleep. Think of it as the vital resource it is. Fill up that tank a little bit. You know you're running on fumes. Get out and walk for five minutes a day. You don't have to run a marathon, you don't even have to walk for an hour, just five minutes of moving your body. Nourish yourself, stay hydrated.
Do these small.
Things, you know, stay off of social media if you can, or create some digital boundaries, and over time you will fill up that tank and then you can find your joy and purpose and really find a way out. But so often when people are feeling burnt out and really in that state of despair, they feel a greater sense of burden when you know, when we like, oh, just find something that brings you joy, because at that time, that experience of burnout feels so joyless and they don't even know where to turn.
Often, we got to take a short break, but don't go anywhere, because when we come back, doctor Narukar is revealing the scientific benefits behind touching grass.
And we're back. So we have some specific scenarios that we'd love your perspective and advice on the first one is something I've felt at past jobs. I'm not going to name names, but the Sunday scaries are real, and that feeling of dread that comes ahead of starting a new week. How can we ward off that noise and not let it take over the weekend or even feel stressed out before we go to bed.
So the Sunday scaries are real and I've felt those.
Oh my goodness.
The reason you feel the Sunday scaries is because anxiety is a future focused emotion. It's all the one ifs, right, like what if this happens, what if that happens, What if this happens? It's doom and gloom thinking, and like we talked about earlier in our conversation, it's about shifting away from what if and back to what is. One very simple technique that you can do is have something to look forward to and plan out on a Monday. So do something that brings you a lot of joy, yeah, and then again plan something later on in the week. When you have that sense of looking forward to it. You know, there's lots of reasons why you have Sunday scaries, and it ebbs and flows. If it's happening once in a while you're feeling that sense of Sunday scaries, that's okay. But if it is happening for months and months and months at a time and debilitating, then it's time to take a closer look into what's happening and what's causing you to have those Sunday scaries for Monday.
Doctor Narkar, I was listening to talk about toxic resilience and I was like, wow, that is such a profound term and that is so smart to talk about it and want to encourage people to avoid it. And resilience is a part of my reality as a parent. I have no choice but to be resilient because there are so many stressors that are sent my way as a mom of two active little boys. So what's your advice on navigating parental burnout? How can we extend self compassion when we're walking through that.
I love this question because I have to coach myself every single day, simon, because I too as a working mother. You know, we're so hard on ourselves. First and foremost, give yourself lots of grace. Self compassion is just not a nice to have. When we change our self talk and that inner critic it has a direct effect on your omigdala dials down the volume of your amygdala, and so really leaning into that sense of grace and self compassion is really really important. Of course, we know based on the science and also just our lived experience as parents that having a sense of community is so important. Loneliness to parenting is a real issue. Loneliness is at epidemic proportions all throughout America and the world. Frankly, but you know, for parents, especially especially when you have young kids, making sure that you have a tribe so you're not going through it alone. And finally, to really normalize and validate the difficult experience that all of us are having, whether we be parents or if we aren't parents or parents to fur babies. You know, we're all caregivers in some capacity and understanding that caregiving as an act, it's a beautiful thing, but it also takes a lot of out of you. And when you're running on fumes, it's just very difficult normalizing and validating the difficult experience of whether it be stress or burnout or parental burnout or whatever it is you're experiencing. When you can do that, you can show up for yourself and for others in a much deeper way.
Okay, So Simona and I have been known to use the phrase touch grass on this podcast, which to us means like go take a break, but also it means grounding yourself, coming down to earth, and we've heard you talk about grounding now in this podcast. Obviously nature is so good for our mental health. Are there scientific benefits to touching grass? Oh?
I love that.
I love when people on social media like as the clap back, they're like, go touch some grass, dude. It always makes me laugh too. I find it so hysterical. So there's a Japanese custom called forest bathing. And it's a beautiful concept. It simply means that you go into nature, and not specifically grass per se, but just like a area with lush nature, with lots of green and trees, and you just bathe yourself in the forest. I have not studied the science deeply, but I can tell you what happens to you from the brain standpoint. You feel a sense of awe and you feel a sense of connection you tap into. Danielle, you alluded to this purpose and meaning. There are two kinds of happiness. There is he done happiness. He Donic happiness is like getting that new bag or the new shoes, or taking a trip, or you know, buying a new car, easy things that we look at as oh, that person must be so happy they have all of these things in their life. But there is another kind of happiness, you dimonic happiness. You dimonic happiness is not like the thrill and the joy and all of that that he done happiness is You. Dimonic happiness is about contentment, purpose, meaning. And so when you're in the forest, when you're on nature, when you look at the ocean, when you look at tall mountains, you feel that deep sense of purpose and meaning that sense of belonging, and in fact, your brain and your body know the difference. In one study, he done happiness was compared to you diaimonic happiness, and your cells know the difference, and your DNA knows the difference between the two, and he donnic happiness didn't have the same benefits as you daimonic happiness. And so really doing things, you know, unplugging, being out in nature, like you say, touch grass, doing things that are all inspiring that make you feel a sense of connection and that feeling of you dimonic happiness, contentment, purpose, meaning, that is what's so therapeutic, and that's why going out in nature feels so so good.
I'm adding a new word to my lexicon. It's you demonic happiness. Me dimonic happiness? Is you dimonic happiness?
I love it?
I love it.
Doctor Narukar, thank you so much for sharing your expertise here with us. On the bright side, we really enjoyed it.
Thank you so much, Thank you so much.
Guys. Doctor Adit Narukar is an internal medicine physician at Harvard and a stress, resilience and public health expert. That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we've got sisters and best selling authors Amber Ruffin and Lacey Lamar. They're here on the bright Side to talk comedy, family, and so much more.
Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm simone Voice. You can find me at simone Voice on Instagram and TikTok.
I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok.
That's ro b A.
Y see you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.