Asking for a Friend with Danielle Bayard Jackson

Published Apr 2, 2024, 7:01 AM

In today’s episode, we kick off “Asking for a Friend,” The Bright Side’s new friendship advice segment. Danielle and Simone are joined by friendship coach Danielle Bayard Jackson, who answers listener questions and teaches us how to strengthen our bonds. If you have a friend dilemma, send us a voice message at hello@thebrightside.com. We might use it next time! Plus, Are you more of a black cat or a Golden Retriever when it comes to relationships? Danielle and Simone discuss what it means to be with a partner who brings that lovable, playful “Golden Retriever Energy.”

Hello from the bright Side, Hello Sunshine.

Today on the show, we're fueling up on friendship. We're deep diving with friendship expert and coach Danielle Bayer Jackson. She's sharing three ways we can strengthen our bonds, the amazing health benefits we get from sisterhood, and she drops some major gems on how we can all be a better friend.

Speaking of friends, Sharon Dion, Rachel and Monica, Hillary and Ashley Banks. We love a good on screen sisterhood, but today we're revealing the most unexpected famous friend pairings in real life. It's a game we're calling homies or don't know me. It's Tuesday, April second. I'm Simone Boyce.

I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine. Tell me what you did last night. We usually we get to talk on the phone at night, and I didn't get to talk to you.

You know what, My weekends, my nights lately have been very uneventful, and that's okay because I'm busier than ever, and so I think I'm really enjoying just the normalcy of those periods.

M Normal is so underrated, it really is.

I totally agree how about you.

My Monday was actually more eventful than usual. Usually I like to take it easy on Monday and Friday nights. But I went to dinner with a girlfriend who's about to be an author. She's coming out with a book this summer, and so she gave me her proof copy and I spent the whole night reading it. And then you know what I did. This is my secret, little magic moment of joy. I went to get a foot massage. It's one of those places where there's like twenty beds and you all get a foot massage in front of each other and there's.

A little curtain in between each one. Oh, this doesn't have a curtain, Okay, so you're just you're out there together.

Oh my god, I carry all my stress in my feet, my feet in my hands. I was so joyful.

Listen, foot massage sex. I mean it's really tight there. It's their neck And for me, I told you, are you the same way? Oh my gosh, a foot massage. I love getting foot massages. I also will roll up for like a cheap and dirty foot massage, even at the nail salon. I'll just stop by soak my feet in that tub and get I'll be like, twenty dollars for twenty minutes, hook me up, yes.

And then I want an extra five minutes after. It's never enough time. It's never enough time, you know my mom. I remember when I was a little girl. My mom used to be like, I think I'm done with heels. I'm just gonna wear sneakers or your sandals all the time. And I looked at her and I'm like, you are giving up. Why would you ever be done with heels. I'll never be like that. And I am so done with heels. I can't even tell you. I'm living in sneakers. This is why I need a foot massage all the time.

Totally done with heels. I just got a pair of those Adidas Sambas. That's gonna be my new go to shoe now. Oh, I like that. When you were talking about your mom and that memory from growing up, it reminded me my aunt Monica. She used to pay me and my cousins a dollar to give her a foot massage.

That is so familial. There's somebody in every family who does this.

Yes, she was such a hustler too. She was such an entrepreneur, so that made a lot of sense she would kind of like gamify the foot massage and find like a business angle to teach us about business and entrepreneurship.

But that is funny. Yeah, well, I guess we can't spend the whole episode talking about feet, should we get into it?

I did not expect for this to be our foot episode, but I guess it's a good time as any. Let's get into it though.

Okay, we have a funny topic to discuss today, and it's all over the internet. So Golden Retriever boyfriends and husbands? Do you have one? Do you want one? TikTok defines a Golden Retriever boyfriend as someone who is trusting, who is kind, who's unashamed of his feelings, takes a playful approach to life, full of positivity, loves PDA, and really just has the qualities of America's quintessential dog. It gives me ken from Barbie. I think of Travis Kelcey, Taylor Swift's boyfriend. They're both giving me Golden Retriever energy.

Golden Retriever energy. This is such a funny conversation. You know, for the longest I thought that I was married to a golden Retriever husband. But I just realized I'm the golden Retriever in the relationship. What do you mean, I'm the golden Retriever. I'm the I'm the effervescent, energetic one.

Because you're the likable one. Is Michael not like it?

No, don't say that.

He's very likable, but that's part of it.

No wait, really, no, I don't want to say that he is. He's so kind and nice and likable and gets along with everyone, So don't get me wrong there. But I'm just the more energetic, bombastic like I've got it. I'm hyper. I'm like a hyper Golden Retriever puppy.

You're the happy, go lucky pogo stick.

Yes, okay, well said, Well said. There's this other phenomenon, the blackcat girlfriend. Have you heard about this.

Well, that's the usually the person who's married or partnered with the golden retriever. So like you can only really have one Golden Retriever in the relationship. The other person has to kind of take more of a back seat, is what they're.

Saying, right, The black eyed girlfriend has to compliment the other person, so they're a bit more antisocial, calm quiet, which gets to this age old theory of opposites attracting. Do you think that that's true.

I do think that a lot of people partner looking to complete themselves, so we look for things that we don't have. It's sort of like this natural instinct. I usually do partner with my opposite. Is Michael your opposite?

Yeah? We do contrast each other in a lot of ways.

There has to be some overlap, like you need similarities in values. Maybe even like some similar interests would be nice.

I think it's a contrast in energies that has to happen right more well, because it's like you said, if you both have that really hyper Golden Retriever energy, that's probably going to be a lot and you might drain each other.

I don't know were you thinking, because you're the golden Retriever. So what's Michael?

He's more, he has more black cat energy. He has that he has that calm, quiet, level headed energy. Are you Are you attracted to a Golden Retriever man?

Not really. I do like somebody who's enthusiastic about life, but I'm more of a low key person and so if someone has too much energy, it's just not a match for me. I was thinking about what I do, Like, I think I decided I either want a German shepherd or a labordoodle. And I'm gonna tell you why.

Yeah, tell me why? Tell me more about that.

Okay, So German shepherds are large dogs. I don't need somebody tall. I would like somebody, you know, like I'm five to one, just taller than me. Wise, that's not too much task, not too much task. Intelligent. I love a smart man. They form close bonds with their owners, and they're hard workers, like they're serve dogs are in the military. They assist, which I love like a man of service. Is so beautiful to me.

I'm just laughing at how seriously you're taking this dog breed partner conversation.

Wait, the best part is that they're athletic, and I was like, yeah, I need somebody who wants to work out with me.

Wait, okay, so I have more about that. That's really funny that you mention it, because there was this hilarious article in The New Yorker comparing celebrities to dog breeds. They said that Michael B. Jordan is like a Belgian shepherd, which is just like a German shepherd, so highly athletic. They said that Ryan Gosling is an Australian shepherd because he has gorgeous eye and an ability to follow specific commands.

So I guess it does what Eva Mendez tells him to do.

I guess. And also he's really talented. He has all these different skill sets. He can sing, he can dance, he can act. Kevin Hart is a Chiuahua.

I don't find him nippy like a chihuahua.

He is a little bit if you see it in his stand up. Really, yes, that is funny.

He has that little.

Yippy, yeppie diminutive.

Think they're just saying because he's kind of small, so they're calling him a chuaha, which is not fair. I stand for all the small people.

I love Kevin Hart so much. He owns it though, you know, does he really owns it?

Yeah? He does.

And then this article compares Killian Murphy to a cat.

I'm to think, like, who's a poodle, who's a Doberman pincher?

Yeah, I don't know that. I want that Doberman pincher energy in my life.

Yeah, they're like the guard dogs of the late nineteenth century.

Thank you for that. Danielle In our hosting relationship as workwives. Who has more Golden Retriever energy? Is it you or is it me?

I feel like we need the producers to weigh in on this. We need the paticles.

What do you think I'm gonna say it's me, just because I have that everywhere I go.

I was gonna say it was you too.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think you're.

Bouncy, You're fun, You're very fun too, king But I'm a lot. I know, I think I'm a lot. It's something that is always in the back of my mind.

So, you know, all over the internet people say that if you think you're too much, the other people around you are too little. I don't think you're too much at all.

Thank you.

Love. Yeah.

Okay, So if I'm the Golden Retriever, then what are you?

I think that makes me the black cat.

She's wearing all black today.

I want to be a labradoodle. Okay, Can I just be a labradoodle?

I feel like labradoodles and Golden Retrievers would be best buds.

I think so they're playful. You know, they like long walks. I like a walk a day, love a good walk. My parents always walked after dinner, and now I always feel like I want a partner that's going to walk with.

Me a constitutional yes. Yeah, maybe we should instead of calling them hot girl walks, we should just take ourselves for a dog walk.

I can't believe you said that, because one of my best friends lives six blocks from me. Uh huh, and sometimes I call her and I say, hey, can you walk the dog? Being me, I'm the dog because it's so funny. I can't get out of my apartment, like I'll just work on my computer all night, and I'm like, can you please come walk the dog.

I'm dying.

I'm dying.

Okay, besties, we need you to settle this score. Who has more Golden Retriever energy? Is it Danielle or is it me? Let us know at hello At the brightsidepodcast dot.

Com wloofwoof After the Break, friendship expert Danielle Buyer Jackson is hanging out with us. She's given us her tips on how to be a better bff.

Stick with us. Okay, bright Side besties, I am so excited to introduce you to Asking for a Friend, where we are gonna be answering your biggest, most burning questions about friendship, whether that's creating new connections, fostering existing ones, or navigating conflict.

Yikes here to help us. Dig In is one of my favorite you know what, she's not one of MI. She is my favorite expert in this space. And she's a fellow. Danielle, Danielle Bayer Jackson is here. She's a friendship coach and host of the podcast friend Forward. So Danielle, welcome.

Hello.

I'm so happy to be here.

We have been talking about you for weeks now. We have been Our whole office has been so excited to get you on the show. I think we have plenty to talk about, plenty of questions for you.

I didn't know that everybody had so many friend issues. Oh yeah, no, wonder you have a job. I get it.

That's right. It pays the bills, I'll tell you that.

But you weren't always a friendship coach. You started out as a teacher, so I'm curious as to how you journeyed into this new title. Yeah.

So, I actually started out as a high school teacher, and I was working with seniors and it's the number one thing they wanted to talk about between classes and after school was the friendship drama. And then I became the academic chair, and so the teachers who were in my department, they were talking about, how can we solve, you know, all the drama that's getting in the way of the learning in the classroom. And so after six years, I left the classroom and I got into public relations. So suddenly I'm working with these charismatic, high achieving women and it wasn't long before I realized that they too, privately had their friendship issues where they weren't feeling seen and satisfied. So that's why I kind of got curious about what research was available to help us understand women's connection. And so for the past six years, I've been leveraging my background and education to study with the research has to say about women's connection and conflict.

Tell me about what friendship means in your life.

You know, you can't do this work and not have it directly impact or personal relationships. And I'll tell you this, I think the way that it's impacted me most is I think it's made me braver because I'm learning that a lot of us are scared of rejection. I'm learning about the benefits and so being equipped with that technical knowledge makes me bolder in my relationships, to pursue new friends, to appology, to declare if I want more connection with existing friends, and so I'm so appreciative to have this knowledge impact my life in such a personal way.

Danielle knows that I love to nerd out about science, So can I get nerdy with you about the data here? Okay? Okay, great. So I want to know more about the health benefits of female friendship. And also I'm curious if you've come across any research about at what age do women report having the most satisfaction in their friendships.

Well, say this, There are a bunch of benefits, but a couple that really blow my mind is a lot of us are familiar with the concept of fight or flight as responses to stress. Well, they did that study again, this time with women, and they found that we have two more responses tend or befriend. Yeah, so when we're facing distress, we might either go and tend to those who are more vulnerable and care for them, or go and gather with other women. It decreases our stress hormone, increases oxytocin, and so it's quite literally helpful to go and gab with your girls when you're freaking out. You know it has these impacts, and having quality relationships overall just contributes to your longevity and your overall life satisfaction. Now, in terms of what age where we start to feel most satisfied, I do know that the research shows that your social network grows and grows until about the age of twenty six, at which point it begins to decrease. But in terms of like a point where you'll feel fulfilled and happy, I don't know that it's one particular age, but I do know the more that you commit to growing and to evolving and you get intentional about your platonic relationships, I think that's when we'll start to kind of catch a rhythm and feel a little more confident about those relationships.

Okay, so I want to talk about the flip side of this, which is friendship conflict friendship issues. You have said that there is one main overarching theme that all issues revolve around.

So something that I hear pretty commonly is about are you as invested as I am? And for women especially, we really place a lot of emphasis on reciprocity and mutual prioritization, Meaning I want to feel like if you're my number one girl. I want to feel like I'm you see me the same way, and I want to feel like if I'm pouring in, you're doing as much as me. And so you know, typically, you know, if somebody's giving me some kind of grievance about their friendships, it's somewhere in the realm of.

A lack of balance and equality in that way.

Oh my gosh, it's me. It's me. You guys, what do you mean? Which one are you? I'm her, I would I'm the friend. I'm the friend who thinks about reciprocity. I get I get bothered if I feel like I'm investing a lot in a friendship and I'm not getting a lot back. And I think that can manifest in a lot of different ways, like if if I'm always the one reaching out, if I feel like I'm being really intentional about connecting with you and I'm not getting that in return, or let's say, if if we schedule things and you always flake like that's going to be a big deal for me.

Yeah, you're You're not alone.

It's like the number one thing, because you know, none of us wants to feel foolish for like in this by ourselves, or that she doesn't care as much, you know. So I've definitely felt that way about certain friends where you get suspicious because either you're pouring in maybe like of your time, of your emotional support. Yeah, you feel like, Okay, I'm always listening to your stuff, you know, so you're definitely not alone. And I think reciprocity is something that we are hungry for for sure.

Can I ask you a question about that? Is it really about expectations or reciprocity both.

It starts with expectations, because the research does show that women tend to have higher expectations in their close relationships, both platonic and romantic. But it's only kind of compounded by the fact that we often don't communicate it because we feel like we shouldn't have to. I always joked that if I had a dollar for how many times women said Danielle, I should not have to say that I need X y Z. That should be obvious. But that is a relationship killing myth that your friends just ought to know. And so if you feel like you desire more from a friend, whatever that looks like, you want to be careful to package it more as an invitation instead of an accusation, Oh that's good, you know. So instead of like, well you know you don't call me, maybe it's just like, hey, I know the last couple of times we went out, I was giving you suggestion for where I wanted to go.

But you know, I would love to hear from you what you want.

To do, an invitation, not an accusation.

Can you give us a template for having hard conversations?

Yes, So I'd first like to say, if you feel weird about conflict, it might start with the reframe. Depending on how you were raised or what the culture of conflict was in your home, you might be very scared. But I need you to see it as an opportunity to meet a need.

So it's a good thing.

And the research tells us that on the other side of healthy conflict, people report feeling closer. So hey, it's a prerequisite to platonic intimacy. So tangibly, it looks like four steps. One you lead with vulnerability. So you might open by saying the very reason you're reluctant to have the conversation. That might look like, Hey, I have something I wanted to talk to you about, but the last thing I want is for things to be weird between us. The second thing is to highlight the impact of her behavior instead of the behavior. So I might say, hey, when you share things that I told you, it makes me feel really uneasy and question you like trustwise, and I don't like feeling that way, So I'm highlighting the impact. Finally, I ask questions, and so I might to say, like, hey, what's going on. Finally, you're going to end by collaborating on what you're going to do differently moving forward, so everybody can feel a sense of security and knowing that next time we'll be better.

I love that template that you just laid out. It makes it so easy, especially for me, someone who having hard conversations doesn't come easily for me.

Well, we're not the only ones that want to learn from you. We actually had some listener's message and they have questions for you too. So are you ready for these?

I'm so ready. Let's do it.

I feel like a lot of us can relate to this one. I used to have a friend I was really close to, but we kept having conversations about how I felt like I was reaching out more than she was. I just felt like she wasn't showing up the way I wanted her to. So I finally asked for space, and now it's been months of not really top How do you know if you should revive the friendship or just let it die, especially if it hasn't had a proper death signed grieving.

That's so such a powerful question because I know we've all been there. If you're trying to figure out whether or not to rekindle or revive a friendship. The first reason I like to pose to women to explore that is if something has changed since the last time you were friends, because sometimes we get to missing her and she's familiar and we want her company again because we love her. But if nothing has changed since the first time you stepped away, then I would encourage you to look at that right And also, has enough time pass where people have gained perspectives, So what's going to be different this time around? And does everybody have the necessary data to move forward? So if you still have some issues that you were upset about, but you plan on re engaging her without communicating that information, I just don't see how things would be better the second time around.

I had a friendship I put to bed one time, and the question I asked myself, was every time I call this person or she calls me, do I get energy or do I feel drained? And if nine out of ten times I felt drained? You know, because everybody goes through stuff, so you got to be thoughtful about that. But if it's if it's all the time, it's just not for me anymore. And it's tough to put a friendship to bed. I like that question nine nights. Okay, not tough for someone, Okay, Danielle, this is my favorite question of the day. Over the past four years, one of my closest friends has become increasingly politically active. She's supporting a candidate whom I strongly disagree with on a fundamental level. I don't want our political differences to drive a wedge between us, But at the same time, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to engage with her without feeling like this is a values issue. How can I navigate this situation without jeopardizing our relationship or compromising my own beliefs signed politically parted?

Oh, I feel for her, and I know that more of us were going to experience that in an increasingly divisive political season.

I'll say this, it sounds.

Nice and fluffy to say, you know, well, sometimes we just agree to disagree and you maintain the friendship.

And I like that sentiment.

I do.

But if you start to realize that the difference is something where it feels like it's a threat to your actually said identity or humanity, and your world views are so different that it feels like you'd be somehow compromising your sense of self to maintain this friendship, then I don't think that makes it a superficial reason to withdraw. So always start by saying, is there a way that we can set boundaries around certain discussions or behaviors and still engage in and this friendship still adds some kind of value to my life. But if you're unable to contain those differences in that way and it has you feeling resentful, it has you feeling devalued, unappreciated, unaffirmed, then I think it's totally valid to want to withdraw from a friendship like that.

This is a tough one.

Do you feel about it? This has actually happened to me. I've been on the receiving end of a friendship breakup because of something that I posted and my friend didn't actually address why she cut off the relationship. She just basically ghosted ended communications. And it was tough because we had moved to a new area and they were our only friends in the area. But in the end, it revealed a lot more about her than anything else, that she didn't have the maturity to have the conversation, and also that she she didn't have room for nuance. And I hear what you're saying. I do think that today, in today's day and age, it is becoming increasingly difficult to have friendships with people who seemingly are really far apart from us on values. But I also think it's unrealistic to have a circle of friends where you agree with everyone on every single thing. I think that's impossible.

And I'm sorry that happened to you, because that's so like devastating and jarring, right and hurtful. If you trust somebody and then they leave, you start to think, gosh, well, what did this friendship mean to you? And I want to clarify. I do think we should start with curiosity, Hey, why do you believe the way you do? And honestly, a person's more likely to change their mind when they see new world views from a friend, like somebody in my intimate circle. That's going to get me thinking about things differently. But if you do find that you know, they're saying and doing things that make you feel like, gosh, you disrespect you know me and the group I belong to? Do you even see me or respect me? Then those are the kinds of things that at some point some might feel like, Okay, this is something I just I can't sanely maintain.

But it is tricky. It's tricky all around.

And I don't know that there's one clear cut answer. It gave such a beautiful answer, but I really think it is situationally dependent.

We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we're putting our guests celebrity friendship knowledge to the test with a little game we're calling homies or don't know Me?

Stick with us, all right. We want to take advantage of having friendship guru Danielle Bayer Jackson with us today. So we're gonna play a game where we guess unex expected celebrity friendships without further ado. Let's get into a round of homies or don't know Me? You ready, Danielle, I'm so ready? Yes, here's how this is gonna work. This is multiple choice, So I'm gonna give you a few choices and then you have to answer the question. All right, So first up, who is best friends with Dolly Parton? Is it A Sylvester Stallone, B, Timothy Shallome, C, Diane Keaton or d Selena Gomez?

Oh? Wow, all those shock me. I'm gonna I'm gonna go with d E.

It's actually Sylvester Stallone.

Wow.

That is a random pairing.

Isn't that shocking? Okay, here's a little background. So Dolly and Sly first met on a movie set in the eighties. The movie was Rhinestone, a musical comedy that came out in nineteen eighty four. In that Dolly plays a country singer who makes a bet with Sly's character Freddy that she can turn anyone into a country star in two weeks.

Wait, I saw this film.

I haven't seen it, but now I want to go about the watch this movie.

Okay, Next one, John Travolta gets his style advice from A. Lil nas X B. Samuel L. Jackson, C. Barbara Streisan or D Pitbull. Mister three oh five?

Oh god, I'm gonna go with b Samuel L.

Jackson. It is our other bald headed friend. Mister three oh five Piple was the one who convinced John Travlta to shave his head in twenty nineteen. Ballet Simona lived in Miami for a few years, so it's coming out.

Yeah, my blood. These are actually really hard now that I'm now that I'm looking at it. So you're doing great, Danielle. We threw you some hard ones today.

Okay.

Finally, Bette Midler is homies with which rapper? Is it A Cardi, B B Nicki Minaj see Snoop Doggie Dog or d Fitty Cent?

Well, I feel like Snoop is besties with Martha Stewart, so I'm going to take him off. I'm gonna say I'm gonna go with a but honestly, who knows anymore?

It's actually fifty Cent. Fifty Cent and Bette Midler are friends. They met through charity work, and Bet has said that Fiddy has made her life Fiddy Fiji has made her life worth living, and that they've been through thick and thin together.

Wow.

Never one of thought I need photo and video evidence of this. I love this friendship so much.

Danielle, you have been spectacular. I want to be friends with you too. I totally understand why Danielle was so clingy. I'm sorry about her.

Whoa Clay's a very strong word.

I'm so sorry she gets that way sometimes. Thank you so much for joining us for all our bright side besties out there. Danielle Buyer Jackson is a friendship coach and host of the Friends Forward podcast, and her debut book, called Fighting for Our Friendships, is out May seventh.

Wait, I just Danielle, please tell everyone I'm not clinging.

We were not clinging at all.

Like it's like the perfect amount of space and respect.

I don't believe that was like Coors, Okay, we gotta go.

Have a great day.

Why doesn't anyone teach us this stuff? I think I learned more in that one conversation about how to show up as a friend and when to let go of friends than I have in the rest of my thirty plus years combined.

It's so true. Couldn't agree more. I Mean, there's so much wisdom I'm ticking with me from that conversation, so it's hard to pick just one idea that we want to leave our bright side besties with. But here's what we decided on. To be a better friend, you have to be a brave friend.

So go out there and be brave.

And this is not the last time we're asking for a friend, So send us a note with your trickiest friendship question, or even better, a voice memo at Hello at the bright Side podcast dot com.

Tomorrow, Amanda Montella is joining us. She's an author, linguist and host of the podcast Sounds like a Cult. She's dishing on magical overthinking, and she's putting me in simone to the test on our knowledge of Internet slang.

Okay, that's it for today's show. We'll be back tomorrow with your daily dose of sunshine. Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can find me simone Voice at simone Voice.

And you can find me a Danielle Robe at Danielle Robe.

Ro Ba Y see you tomorrow.

The Bright Side

Start your day with The Bright Side, a daily podcast from Hello Sunshine. Co-hosted by journalist, T 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 244 clip(s)