“Looking for Smoke” with Reese's Book Club Author K.A. Cobell

Published Oct 14, 2024, 7:01 AM

On Indigenous Peoples' Day, author K.A. Cobell joins to talk about her debut novel and the fall young adult pick for Reese’s Book Club, "Looking for Smoke." She tells Danielle and Simone about her own experience within the Blackfeet Nation, how she navigates her mixed-race identity, and why she decided to write a thriller that sheds light on the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women epidemic. 

You can find the "Looking for Smoke" audiobook on Apple Books.

Hey, Bessie's Hello Sunshine.

Today on the bright Side, it's Indigenous People's Day and we've got another edition of shelf Life lined up for you. We're joined by Ka Cobell, the author of Looking for Smoke, which is the fall young adult pick for Reese's Book Club. It's Monday, October fourteenth. I'm Danielle Robe.

And I'm Simone Boyce, and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day.

On My Mind Monday is brought to you by missus Myers Clean Day, inspired by the goodness of the Garden.

Happy on Monday. Danielle, you already know what time it is. This is our opportunity to share what's inspiring us. To kick off the week on the right foot.

Feels like a good way to combat a case of the Mondays. So tell me what's on your mind.

Well, I'm so glad you asked, because I just read this great piece in the New York Times by Chancey Dunn about how to turn around a bad day, and you might be thinking is even humanly possible? Well, it turns out it is because this writer talked to a clinical psychologist, a woman named Susan albers and she had some very practical solutions for turning around the day. I was actually pretty impressed. So one thing doctor Alberts says Danielle is to change up your day and make what she calls a sensory change. So that can be anything from a shower to changing your clothes or just working out. Have you ever tried that and has it worked for you?

Hell?

Yeah, you gotta like switch the energy up. I'm a big if you're sad, take a shower. If you're sad, take a walk or a run kind of girl.

I feel like the power of the shower is so underestimated.

The power of the shower. It runs a shower.

Whenever I'm feeling some type of way, That's one of the first things I do is just take a shower, and it's like something about the water washing over me.

It's like I feel rejuvenated. It's good. Simon.

When I was in college, I found out that my boyfriend was cheating on me, And by found out, I mean like I hacked his email and went through everything in his apartment.

It was like psycho.

Style, and I was so upset, and I was driving back home and I called my dad and I was crying, and he goes, Danielle, go for a run.

Excuse me, that's the advice. And in hindsight, I know what he meant. He was right, go for a run.

He was echoing doctor Albert's advice to you know, pursue a sensory change. Yes, okay, This next piece of advice is one I can really get behind.

Okay.

Doctor Albert says you should give yourself little rewards. She suggests giving yourself intermittent rewards during an otherwise terrible day. And she says it's better to get a dopamine hit now than wait for a dopamine hit later after the horrible day has ended. I mean, anyone who's ever treated themselves to a bougie latte in the middle of a bad day knows exactly what she's saying.

This sounds like you. You love a sweet treat, You don't like rewards. You don't like treats, Danielle.

No, I'm masochistic and don't believe I deserve any treats.

Oh my god, I like a cappuccino in the morning. It's a lot to unpact. That's there. We're gonna need to bring doctor Albers on. I think, no, no, But you love a millennial treat. I do love a millennial treat.

Yeah yeah, Okay. Finally, here's the last one I want to leave y'all with. Doctor Albers recommends setting up an emotional first aid kit.

Oh what's that?

So? That means keeping anything nearby that brings you joy, music, mementos, or even just that group chat that makes you feel less alone. This one is so huge too, Like, I find that in the same way that a shower can offer a sensory change, music does the same thing for me.

I also think it works the opposite way, Like when I've been heartbroken, I make sure I don't watch sad movies or listen to sad songs because it can really affect your mood. I totally agree with this one. Okay, I have a question for you based on this on my mind Monday. I was just talking to a girlfriend about this. If you're going through a hard time, does buying things help your mood?

It does, but I don't do it. Sure it does, but like I know that it's not. It's only a temporary solution. It's only a band aid, and it's also a very costly band aid, so I tend to not do it. I've actually gotten a lot better about consumerism in the past couple of years, Like I don't buy as much stuff, and I'm happier because of it.

How about you. I totally agree. But sometimes.

Like, Okay, I've talked about this on the podcast before, but like I went through a really brutal heartbreak like four or five years ago, and it put it like triggered childhood wounds. I was in such a bad spot, and I remember my therapist at the time being like, I think you should go buy yourself a leather jacket. And I was thinking, what a dumb piece of advice, Like aren't you supposed to like console, Like you're supposed to tell me something more meaningful.

But I kind of understand what she means me now, Like I guess it's the sweet treat.

It's the millennial treat that I was joking about, Like sometimes you do have to treat yourself, but there is a fine line.

Yeah, I don't know.

So maybe you buy it for yourself and then when you feel better, you return it.

Great advice, Great advice, okay jokes aside.

One of the things that really does help me switch up my mood is reading a book, because especially when I read women's stories, I feel so validated by their experiences and it kind of takes you into a different realm.

Do you feel that way?

One hundred percent? I find that fiction really does that for me. And I like having almost like a book ritual or reading ritual, like I love drawing a bath and setting a candle on and maybe having my face steamer on, and just like reading a book. There's something about that ritualistic element that is really comforting whenever I'm having a bad day.

It's such a great way to unwind.

And you know, speaking of great books, our guest today is the author of Reese's book Clubs fall Ya Pick Looking for Smoke. For her debut novel, Ka Cobell drew inspiration from her own experience within the Blackfeet Nation, which is a reservation in northwest Montana. In an interview with The Nerd Daily, Ka said she wanted to write a story featuring Blackfeet teens because it's something she never saw growing up, and as a thriller writer, she wanted to shed light on the issue of missing and murdered Indigenous women and its impact on the lives of those affected by it.

And that's honestly exactly what she did. In her first book, Looking for Smoke follows fourteens on the Blackfeet Reservation, Maura, Lauren, Brody, and Eli, who find themselves entangled in a murder investigation, and it's up to them to clear their own names, even though one of them may in fact be the murderer. After the break, we're diving into it all with author Ka Cobell.

Stay with us.

Thanks to our partners at missus Myers, you can learn a lot about a person by their dish soap. Missus Meyers's collection of household products are inspired by the guard and pack a punch against dirt and grind. Visit missus meyers dot com.

Welcome to the bright Side, Ka.

Hello, thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

Oh We're so happy to have you.

Congrats on being selected as Reese's Book Club's fall yapic for your book entitled Looking for Smoke. So we know that this story is deeply personal to you. It centers around this main character, Mara, who struggles with coming to terms with her mixed race identity, and this is something that you've been open about as well. Would you take us into that journey a bit.

I think it all started because even before I began writing this book, I started having a lot of questions and doubts in myself, Like I knew this story needed to be told, but I started thinking, like who am I to tell this story? Like? Am I talented enough to tell the story? Am I Blackfeet enough to tell the story? And I had to kind of grapple with those questions in thinking about my identity, and I ultimately found a place within myself where I realized that I am enough and my experience as a Blackfeet author, a Blackfeet woman is valid, and that is the only place where I can tell this story from. And it's one of the biggest honors of my life to be able to open this window into the Blackfeet culture. It is kind of a unique experience to have something in your life that you have such deep pride for, such a reverence for, and other people have never even heard of it. Starting the story with that in mind and getting that confidence to do it, I think naturally came out with Mara, and she's having all these questions as well, does she fit here? Does she belong? Is she enough? And it was fun to explore that with her.

I hear that your father, who is Blackfeet, has helped you navigate those feelings that you're talking about about your identity. How has he helped you connect with your cultural pride?

I got all my cultural pride from him, I would say, through my whole life. He's been so good at instilling that pride in me and my siblings. He's just always willing to share his memories and the stories he grew up with. While I didn't grow up on the reservation, he did, and my older siblings were born there, but he was always sure to bring us back to the reservation, like we visit there for the tribes annual Indian Days celebrations where there's pow wows and rodeos and dan horse relay races. So what I think about most is sitting there in the stands when they start the drum music. And it's really hard to explain, but like you get this feeling in your chest. It's like it's this pull and like this reverence, like this is where I belong, Like this is my home, these are my people, and I tried really hard to put that experience into the opening of Looking for Smoke, where we have Maura and her family sitting in the stands at the powow and she feels that music like a calling. And that's the feeling I get when I think about the reservation and home and where my family is from, like we are connected to the whole place, to the land.

Okay, I'm obsessed with book titles and unpacking the meaning behind them and hearing how authors arrived at them, and yours is really special and has a special history behind it. So your fifth great grandfather, his Indian name, there's a connection between that name and that title Looking for Smoke.

Would you elaborate on that for us?

So, as I was writing this book, I really wanted it to be as authentic as possible. You know. I put a lot of myself and my family into this book with the memories and the stories. And another way I wanted to do that was by using actual family names throughout this book. And so as I was writing, I was looking in my family trees and finding different names of family members and ancestors. And one of the names I saw was my fifth great grandfather and his name was looking for smoke, and it just like matched the vibe I was going for in this book. Yeah, just you know, the elusive smoke, the feeling of like chasing something you can't quite grab, something that slipped from your fingers. And so it just made sense to use that name in the book. And then it hit me that it was also a perfect title.

Well, you have your own native name as well. How did it feel when you got yours?

It is a very special experience for those of you who don't know. Names are very powerful in the Black culture. Back in the day, everyone just had their one name. They had their name in black Feet, which was unique to them, and today we all have our American names first and last, but we are also given a name in black Feet, and it's given to us by an elder in the community who holds a lot of cultural knowledge and speaks the language fluently and is very respected. And they give you this name, and it's almost like a possession, like it is given to you and it belongs to you now. So receiving that name, it's like this is now a piece of the culture that I hold. Like when I got mine, which is under our woman, I felt like I truly belonged, and I felt like held by the community.

I want to ask you about the genre, because this book is a thriller, but you explored sci fi and some dystopian genres first. Why did you land on writing a thriller.

I started with a fantasy and a little bit of dystopian, and I tried to sci fi, and it wasn't until I tried a thriller that I felt like I really took ownership of my voice. It honed my craft. And I think it's because of the stakes that are there with a thriller. It like got its claws in me and it pulled it out of me. Like people are dying, there are murders, you are in danger, and there's just this immediacy when you're writing that it keeps me focused and it keeps me wanting to find out what happened interesting. And I think if I'm not writing about life and death, then it's hard for me to like hone it in. It's like I kind of get lost in it. So that immediacy. In those steaks, they hit me hard, just like they hopefully will hit the reader hard.

Do you think steaks are the secret to writing a really epic thriller.

Absolutely, that is a huge part of it. Having the stakes feel so real that a reader just can't stop flipping pages because they feel like they're in that danger with the characters.

How do you write that? How do you like create stakes like that?

You know? I ask myself that every time I start a new thriller. But I think, oh, for me, a lot of it comes from the character. I really like to start with my character and have them be really fleshed out and have them bringing their own baggage into the story before it evens starts, so we care about them and what they're going through even before everything hits the fan, so that we're rooting for them, and when they're in danger, we feel it more. And another secret I think is secrets. You want to give all these characters these secrets that they want to hold to the death, and as an author, I need to be able to sit with them in those secrets and the lies they tell, giving them reasons to keep these things from their friends, or understanding where they're coming from.

We need to take a quick break, but we'll be right back to shelf Life with author Ka Cobell.

And we're back with author Ka Kobell.

This thriller tells the story of two missing girls, and it highlights the missing and murdered Indigenous women epidemic.

Why was this the issue that you wanted to center?

I really wanted to bring in the missing and murdered Indigenous women epidemic because it's such a serious issue and not everyone knows about it. So, for those of you who don't know, Native women are the victims of violent crime far more often than any other group in our country. Eighty four percent of Native women have experienced violence, fifty six percent of them have experienced sexual violence, and Native women are three times more likely to be murdered than white women, and in some location that murder rate is ten times the national average. And so these numbers, like, when you really think about it, they're staggering. And my biggest hope for looking for Smoke is that non natives will come away with a better understanding of the issue and a desire to learn how they can help.

There's a question or a theme that I've heard you speak about. It's this idea of how far would you go to seek justice? And you say that a lot of us, a lot of people don't have to actually think about what that looks like.

What do you mean when you say that?

Something that I really wanted to explore in Looking for Smoke where these family relationships. We have a lot of sibling relationships Lauren and her grandmother, and they are all looking out for their family members in some way, and they all feel this desperation to protect their family members because they don't feel like anyone else is. They have this distrust in the law enforcement officers. Are they really looking for my sister? Are they truly trying to find the killer of my best friend? Like? They have these questions and these doubts, and they're so worried that no one else is going to find justice if they don't do it themselves. And that's because cases are not being solved and women are not being found. And it truly brings out this desperation in these communities of what isn't being done? Why is this happening? Why are our women not being found? And I just really wanted to show that because it's something that other communities may not deal with as much, or, like I said, haven't heard of it.

I think part of the unfortunate reality for people connected to this issue is that you don't always get justice. Oftentimes you don't get justice. I guess the question in that is how do you make peace with the unknown?

We don't always get closure. But something else that I've tried to show and looking for smoke, is that we can get some closure in community. You know, we come together, we rally around each other, and Native communities have so much strength and they're so tight knit and supportive of each other, and that is how we can find peace. And another one of my goals for this book was that the Native readers will see themselves in this story and see their families and to feel some peace in that community, and that we're in this together and we're fighting together, and we all want to be heard and we want more people to pay attention.

It's so important to discuss these aspects of the Native experience seeking justice for missing and murdered Indigenous women. But it's also really important to talk about the joyful parts of the experience too, And I love that you incorporated some of those joyful elements of what it means to be Native American in this story. What are some of those joyful experiences for you? Like, what does native joy look like to you?

When I think of the Native experience. The first thing that always comes to mind is the humor, Like you get in a group of Native people. You will be laughing so much. They're so hilarious in every situation, like they will always bring in humor. And I feel like that is one of my weaknesses in writing. It's hard to write humor, but I try to show pieces of that, and I also think about just the traditions that brings a lot of joy too, So that's why I wanted to center it around a powwow where we see natives experiencing their culture in its truest form. They are doing the dancing, the traditional ceremonies, and another one of my favorite things is to watch Indian relay races where we have a bareback rider racing three horses around a track, jumping off one jumping onto the next. And I wanted to show that in the book as well, because we are still here, We're still experiencing the culture together and celebrating it.

Oka we have come to the part of our show where we ask authors to read us a passage from their book. There's this one scene that we have in mind that's a reflection of a real life moment with your dad. What's going on in this scene?

So this book is written from multiple povs, so it switches between four different main characters. And this scene is from eli first Kills perspective, and he's coming to apologize Tomara, who has felt like an outsider and Eli was one of the colder students. To her, I bust out my wise indigenous voice, looking into the distance. You have a head presence. I feel it. You're quiet, but you're there observing, like a hawk surveying its land. You're good medicine. She playfully bumps my knee. I'm gonna take that as a compliment. I drop the voice. It is when she smiles again, I realize our faces are only a foot apart, and I find myself noticing the curves of her lips as her smile fades. If I'm a hawk, what are you? Were already established I'm mad bear? She laughs. No, you're not a bear, You're more like a buffalo. I bite my tongue to hide my surprise. Sometimes you're quiet, too, but you have a big presence. Everyone knows if they cross you, you could end them. You seem calm, but your power is very apparent. She cocks her head and nods, just like a buffalo. You're not going to understand why. But that's the most I've felt seen in my entire life. That's all I've tried to do. Keep out of trouble and take care of Sherry. Be the buffalo, ready to defend her if anyone bothers us good. Her smile is bright in the moonlight, and I can't help but smile back. I thought you'd hate me, I would. Her gaze drifts to the cracked sidewalk. The thing is, I didn't expect to fit in with less than three months of school left. Her mouth presses into a grimace. I knew I wouldn't have any friends for a while, and I didn't try that hard to make any Everyone is so tight here. Most of you have known each other your whole lives. You've got a bunch of family everywhere. I'm the odd one who doesn't. I knew i'd be thought of as this newcomer who hasn't been a part of anything. What hurt was that I felt like my identity wasn't accepted, Like I couldn't just own it. I had to prove I deserved it or something that's not what it was, she barrels on. It was like, I'm not full, so I don't count. I didn't grow up here, and my family isn't very true, so I must not know any of the culture. I haven't been here with you, so I'm not one of you. I shake my head. I'm not full either, that's not I think everyone just thought you didn't want to be one of us. We didn't mean any of that.

Well.

I already worried about where I fit in with everything, so it just got worse moving here. I know who I am, but if I have to prove it to someone else, it makes me doubt myself. I guess I don't have all the same experiences as you guys, but being black Feet is still a huge part of my identity. She raises her chin when she looks at me, still proud even when she's doubting herself. The faint light from the big sky makes her high cheekbones glow. She knows who she is. She just wanted us to know too. Your black feet, Mara Ressett. Nobody can take that from you.

Thank you for that.

So that last line, Ka that says your black feet, Maria Risidet nobody can take that from you. I hear that there's a deeper story behind that. Where does that line come from?

It goes back to what I was saying before, where I was having a lot of questions and doubts when I got the idea for this story, thinking am I black feet enough? Am I the right person to tell this story? And of course my dad came in. I laid down all my doubts for him, and he he's the one who helped me shut them down and he said to me, I will always remember he said, your black feet, my girl, Nobody can take that from you. And that was so powerful to me, and I wanted to put that into a scene because it resonated so much with me, and I just I think everyone deserves to hear that that you are enough, You belong who you are, Nobody can take that from you.

Kay, I felt you get emotional when you we're reciting it to us. Where did those almost tears come from?

It's just like I wish everyone could have a support like that, like my dad. I'm patting emotional. He will always affirm who I am, like it's the cultural pride comes from him, like the confidence in myself comes from him like you are who you are and I love you for it, And I just wish that everyone could hear that, no matter who they are.

Well, that's the power of writing. Right now, everybody can hear it when they pick up your book. Are you up for a listener question?

Yeah?

Sure, Okay, fantastic. This question is from Naomi Hi.

I'm Naomi, I'm Ojibwe. I live in San Francisco. I'm a book content creator. I use my platform to highlight and uplift native authors. It is so important to me that when we go into a bookstore, we have more than just a couple of options on books written by people who share our identities and lived experience. So I would love to know more about how or what you struggled with the most as you worked to explore such a serious topic as MMIW, and the steps you took to remain respectful to the very real life experiences that people have had.

That is an awesome question. I truly did struggle before I started writing this book because I knew I would need to find a very fine line in crafting a propulsive thriller myth for entertainment and bringing in this very sensitive and very real issue that is affecting communities today. And I was afraid to start writing because I knew how hard it would be. But I think I found the line to walk through my characters while I was writing these fictional cases. The feelings that the characters are experiencing are real. I'm bringing in that true grief, the feelings of betrayal, this deep sadness, this angry grief. Like I'm bringing in feelings that are so real and feelings that we've all experienced in some way. And if we can sit in those feelings with the characters, I think it will help us to relate to the crisis in a more personal way if we don't already have a personal reason. And yeah, the characters just helped me to find the path to walk in being sensitive to the communities while also hopefully having a page turning story. Fantastic.

Well, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your story with us.

Thank you, Ka, of course, thank you so much. This has been awesome.

Kay Hey Kobell is the author of Looking for Smoke, which is the fall young adult pick for Reese's book Club.

That's it for Today's show.

Tomorrow, Comedian and actor Leanne Morgan joins us to talk about our new memoir What in the World, A Southern Woman's Guide to laughing at life's unexpected curveballs and beautiful blessings. Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram and at The bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and feel free to tag us at simone Voice and at Danielle Robe.

Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.

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