Goldendoodles, bernedoodles, labradoodles, cockapoos, everywhere you look, it seems like doodles — those fluffy, adorable poodle mixes — are taking over sidewalks, cafes and TikTok feeds. But the ubiquity of the muppet-like canines has also come with some doggy drama.

On today’s Big Take podcast, host Sarah Holder and producer David Fox head to New Jersey to meet a breeder who’s been navigating the doodle’s rise to fame. And writer Allie Conti examines the discourse around the industry: from its loudest critics to its devoted diehards.

Read more: How Doodles Became A Billion-Dollar Business