After CEO Sam Altman was dramatically fired and rehired in November 2023, he got right back to work building up OpenAI, best known for ChatGPT.

Now, about a year after that leadership upheaval, and two years after the seismic launch of that chat bot, Altman sat down with Josh Tyrangiel for a wide-ranging interview. Josh joined David Gura to talk about Altman’s evolution from Silicon Valley venture capitalist to a leader of the AI revolution, and how Altman is approaching the future of OpenAI — and planning to navigate the next four years under the Trump administration.

Read more: Sam Altman on ChatGPT’s First Two Years, Elon Musk and AI Under Trump