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Earlier this month, President Donald Trump invited some of the biggest names in crypto to the White House.

Earlier this month, President Donald Trump invited some of the biggest names in crypto to the White House.

Welcome to the first ever White House Digital Assas Summit.

Welcome to the first ever White House Digital Assas Summit.

Venture capitalist David Sachs was there. Trump has made him the White House. AI and Cryptos are.

Venture capitalist David Sachs was there. Trump has made him the White House. AI and Cryptos are.

Like to have you say a few words, David.

Like to have you say a few words, David.

Thank you, mister President. We're all here today because of your leadership, your vision, and your generosity.

Thank you, mister President. We're all here today because of your leadership, your vision, and your generosity.

The Winklevoss twins were also on the invite list, Cameron and Tyler, who run the crypto exchange Gemini.

The Winklevoss twins were also on the invite list, Cameron and Tyler, who run the crypto exchange Gemini.

Cameron, I think you said something earlier that I thought was really profound. You said that a year ago, you thought it would be more likely that you'd end up in jail at the White House. Not to put you on the spot because you didn't do anything wrong, but that was the environment a year ago. So you guys want to say something either one of you.

Cameron, I think you said something earlier that I thought was really profound. You said that a year ago, you thought it would be more likely that you'd end up in jail at the White House. Not to put you on the spot because you didn't do anything wrong, but that was the environment a year ago. So you guys want to say something either one of you.

Sure that was actually Tyler you said that, but sorry, I still get good stuff.

Sure that was actually Tyler you said that, but sorry, I still get good stuff.

Crypto optimism soared as President Biden left office. Under his administration, the regulators had been something of a thorn in the side of the crypto industry. They brought lawsuits and undertook investigations, but under President Trump, the Securities and Exchange Commission has paused or walked back many of those actions. Trump, a former crypto skeptic, is now a crypto booster an investor. Bitcoin hid an all time high just shy of one hundred and ten thousand dollars the day of his inauguration, but it's been on something of a roller coaster ride since then, at one point down as much as twenty eight percent from its January peak. A general risk off feeling in the markets lately has dampened some of the initial enthusiasm for crypto and other risky assets, but some Republicans have promised to pass crypto friendly legislation in the first one hundred days of the Trump presidency. The broader finance industry is watching all of this very closely, and once a year every March, there's this get together in South Florida called Boca, the International Futures Industry Conference.

Crypto optimism soared as President Biden left office. Under his administration, the regulators had been something of a thorn in the side of the crypto industry. They brought lawsuits and undertook investigations, but under President Trump, the Securities and Exchange Commission has paused or walked back many of those actions. Trump, a former crypto skeptic, is now a crypto booster an investor. Bitcoin hid an all time high just shy of one hundred and ten thousand dollars the day of his inauguration, but it's been on something of a roller coaster ride since then, at one point down as much as twenty eight percent from its January peak. A general risk off feeling in the markets lately has dampened some of the initial enthusiasm for crypto and other risky assets, but some Republicans have promised to pass crypto friendly legislation in the first one hundred days of the Trump presidency. The broader finance industry is watching all of this very closely, and once a year every March, there's this get together in South Florida called Boca, the International Futures Industry Conference.

The minute that the dates come out for this conference site, I sign up right away.

The minute that the dates come out for this conference site, I sign up right away.

That's Catherine Doherty. She covers banks and market structure for Bloomberg and she made the trip to the conference.

That's Catherine Doherty. She covers banks and market structure for Bloomberg and she made the trip to the conference.

It's quite a nerdy crowd. I would say it's a bunch of market structure geeks. These are the guys that are in charge of the plumbing of the futures industry. But it really has expanded beyond just futures. So a lot of the exchanges are here, the trading firms, some of the clearing firms, which gets into post trade, like it goes from the very start of a trade when it's being entered, to a trade finishing and being processed. All of the people that are in charge of that system working are here down in Florida, and most notably in the last few years, crypto has made its way down here.

It's quite a nerdy crowd. I would say it's a bunch of market structure geeks. These are the guys that are in charge of the plumbing of the futures industry. But it really has expanded beyond just futures. So a lot of the exchanges are here, the trading firms, some of the clearing firms, which gets into post trade, like it goes from the very start of a trade when it's being entered, to a trade finishing and being processed. All of the people that are in charge of that system working are here down in Florida, and most notably in the last few years, crypto has made its way down here.

I'm David Gura, and this is the big take from Bloomberg News Today. On the show, we catch up with Catherine and Boca, where the crypto crowd was basking in the South Florida sun, and this time around, the dynamics have changed. It's a lot less Old Wall Street versus the new crypto crowd, and there's a surge of interest in how those two groups can find ways to work together. I caught up with Bloomberg's Catherine Doherty last week as the International Futures Industry Conference was wrapping up. She was in a gilded ballroom in the Boca Ratone resort where workers were starting to pack up.

I'm David Gura, and this is the big take from Bloomberg News Today. On the show, we catch up with Catherine and Boca, where the crypto crowd was basking in the South Florida sun, and this time around, the dynamics have changed. It's a lot less Old Wall Street versus the new crypto crowd, and there's a surge of interest in how those two groups can find ways to work together. I caught up with Bloomberg's Catherine Doherty last week as the International Futures Industry Conference was wrapping up. She was in a gilded ballroom in the Boca Ratone resort where workers were starting to pack up.

This place is so large.

This place is so large.

To get from one end of the resort to the other, it takes about fifteen to twenty minutes to walk, So actually you have to take that into account when you're going to meet someone.

To get from one end of the resort to the other, it takes about fifteen to twenty minutes to walk, So actually you have to take that into account when you're going to meet someone.

We sent her down to Florida with a microphone and asked her for a crypto vibe check.

We sent her down to Florida with a microphone and asked her for a crypto vibe check.

All right, I'm just trucking levels.

All right, I'm just trucking levels.

So if you would introduce you, and then I'd love to hear how many Bocas you have been to.

So if you would introduce you, and then I'd love to hear how many Bocas you have been to.

My name is Walt Luken. I'm the CEO of FIA and this is my twenty third Boca.

My name is Walt Luken. I'm the CEO of FIA and this is my twenty third Boca.

FIA is the trade group for the derivatives market.

FIA is the trade group for the derivatives market.

So Walt, what would you say is the big theme that you're picking up on talking to the participants of this conference.

So Walt, what would you say is the big theme that you're picking up on talking to the participants of this conference.

Well, a couple things. I think there is this super trend that's happening about regulatory simplification. I think some of the catalysts is the Trump administration, but you're seeing that theme throughout the globe in Europe as well. I would say the second is just the conflation of traditional finance with new innovators that are coming into the space from the crypto industry, from prediction markets. Those two things are coming together. And I think everyone knows that crypto legislation is going to happen this year in the US. So how does that impact traditional finance and how can we find the best market structure that may satisfy both.

Well, a couple things. I think there is this super trend that's happening about regulatory simplification. I think some of the catalysts is the Trump administration, but you're seeing that theme throughout the globe in Europe as well. I would say the second is just the conflation of traditional finance with new innovators that are coming into the space from the crypto industry, from prediction markets. Those two things are coming together. And I think everyone knows that crypto legislation is going to happen this year in the US. So how does that impact traditional finance and how can we find the best market structure that may satisfy both.

What is it about this conference that keeps you coming back? And I wonder how different the conference is this time versus the ones you've been to in the past.

What is it about this conference that keeps you coming back? And I wonder how different the conference is this time versus the ones you've been to in the past.

So this is my fourth year at BOCA my first four years. Twenty twenty two was my first, and it was a noteworthy one. This was the year that Sam Bankman Freed was a keynote speaker, and he was the king of the conference.

So this is my fourth year at BOCA my first four years. Twenty twenty two was my first, and it was a noteworthy one. This was the year that Sam Bankman Freed was a keynote speaker, and he was the king of the conference.

He was up and coming.

He was up and coming.

He at this point had been an established player in the crypto industry, and Sam remember had come from a trading firm, and because of that, he had a lot of ideas that were starting to encroach in on the traditional financial industry. So at this conference four years ago, he was walking around the halls. He had his T shirt, shorts and sneakers, and he had a lot of the other FDx folks with him that were also in T shirts, and everyone wanted a meeting.

He at this point had been an established player in the crypto industry, and Sam remember had come from a trading firm, and because of that, he had a lot of ideas that were starting to encroach in on the traditional financial industry. So at this conference four years ago, he was walking around the halls. He had his T shirt, shorts and sneakers, and he had a lot of the other FDx folks with him that were also in T shirts, and everyone wanted a meeting.

But there were also some TIFFs.

But there were also some TIFFs.

Quite a noteworthy brawl, I would say, at the hotel bar between the CEO of CME, which is the largest and oldest US derivatives exchange based out of Chicago, and the CEO of that company.

Quite a noteworthy brawl, I would say, at the hotel bar between the CEO of CME, which is the largest and oldest US derivatives exchange based out of Chicago, and the CEO of that company.

He confronted Sam.

He confronted Sam.

That CEO is Terry Duffy, who's been on the board of CME for thirty years. Later, in twenty twenty two, Duffy would describe that moment on the On the Tape podcast from Risk Reversal Media.

That CEO is Terry Duffy, who's been on the board of CME for thirty years. Later, in twenty twenty two, Duffy would describe that moment on the On the Tape podcast from Risk Reversal Media.

I had a meeting with Sam Bankman free for the first time in March this past year. I never met the man he asked to meet with me at a conference.

I had a meeting with Sam Bankman free for the first time in March this past year. I never met the man he asked to meet with me at a conference.

The conversation reportedly lasted for more than an hour.

The conversation reportedly lasted for more than an hour.

I said to him, I said, you know what, You're a fraud. You're an absolute fraud. You're supposedly worth twenty six billion dollars and you're an altist. And I said, if you're an altist at twenty six billion, how come does that not a ten billion dollar donation going to somebody right this moment in time? How about a fifteen billion dollar donation. I said, you know what, I said, my networth doesn't start with any bees. I'll give you three to one that I have more money than you. I said, I'll tell you what.

I said to him, I said, you know what, You're a fraud. You're an absolute fraud. You're supposedly worth twenty six billion dollars and you're an altist. And I said, if you're an altist at twenty six billion, how come does that not a ten billion dollar donation going to somebody right this moment in time? How about a fifteen billion dollar donation. I said, you know what, I said, my networth doesn't start with any bees. I'll give you three to one that I have more money than you. I said, I'll tell you what.

That blow up between Terry Duffy and Sam Bankman Free happened in March of twenty twenty two. By November of that year, FTX had collapsed.

That blow up between Terry Duffy and Sam Bankman Free happened in March of twenty twenty two. By November of that year, FTX had collapsed.

So it wasn't actually very long after Sam made his debut at this conference that his exchange ended up having to file for bankruptcy, and the subsequent years crypto has been quite absent.

So it wasn't actually very long after Sam made his debut at this conference that his exchange ended up having to file for bankruptcy, and the subsequent years crypto has been quite absent.

The implosion of FTX had a ripple effect. Other crypto companies collapsed, and it triggered a mass exodus of capital from the industry and prompted a regulatory crackdown that's only now loosening in Trump's second term. So far, Republicans have introduced a bill to regulate stable coins that type of crypto peg to another asset, say the dollar, gold, but the scope of the bill is fairly limited and wouldn't regulate most forms of crypto, and outside of legislation, there's still an open question over which agency would be responsible for crypto regulation. That the conference participants were trying to gain amount, what any forthcoming regulation could look like.

The implosion of FTX had a ripple effect. Other crypto companies collapsed, and it triggered a mass exodus of capital from the industry and prompted a regulatory crackdown that's only now loosening in Trump's second term. So far, Republicans have introduced a bill to regulate stable coins that type of crypto peg to another asset, say the dollar, gold, but the scope of the bill is fairly limited and wouldn't regulate most forms of crypto, and outside of legislation, there's still an open question over which agency would be responsible for crypto regulation. That the conference participants were trying to gain amount, what any forthcoming regulation could look like.

How do we plan if there is regulation and we can start to enter this market as US financial markets and embrace crypto in a way, what does that look like? And it's a lot of wait and see. But if you wait too long and you're not in the planning process, you might be left on the sidelines. I would describe this year it feels like Kumboya.

How do we plan if there is regulation and we can start to enter this market as US financial markets and embrace crypto in a way, what does that look like? And it's a lot of wait and see. But if you wait too long and you're not in the planning process, you might be left on the sidelines. I would describe this year it feels like Kumboya.

There's this sense of how do we work together?

There's this sense of how do we work together?

Four years ago, as I mentioned the crypto bros, we're walking around these hallways. A lot of them were hosting their booths and giving out swag, and you could tell there was a difference between the old guard and the newer digital asset blockchain developers, and you could quite literally see it in their outfits. Now everyone is back to suits. In many ways, they are embracing in the old guard. They're wearing suits, maybe not a tie, and the old guard is embracing them. And I think that image, that visual is how I see the industry evolving.

Four years ago, as I mentioned the crypto bros, we're walking around these hallways. A lot of them were hosting their booths and giving out swag, and you could tell there was a difference between the old guard and the newer digital asset blockchain developers, and you could quite literally see it in their outfits. Now everyone is back to suits. In many ways, they are embracing in the old guard. They're wearing suits, maybe not a tie, and the old guard is embracing them. And I think that image, that visual is how I see the industry evolving.

It's this not us and them, but us together.

It's this not us and them, but us together.

After the break, Catherine catches up with the guy who confronted Sam Bankman freed. Catherine, you've described this confluence of the Old Guard and the New Guard. And I know that while you've been down there, you've been trying to talk to people from both camps. Let's start with the old Guard.

After the break, Catherine catches up with the guy who confronted Sam Bankman freed. Catherine, you've described this confluence of the Old Guard and the New Guard. And I know that while you've been down there, you've been trying to talk to people from both camps. Let's start with the old Guard.

The best representation of the Old Guard is none other than Terry Duffy, the CEO of CME.

The best representation of the Old Guard is none other than Terry Duffy, the CEO of CME.

So this is the guy who got into the fight with Sam begman Freed.

So this is the guy who got into the fight with Sam begman Freed.

He is the one that had the tiff with Sam bankman Fried at the bar, and so Duffy is back.

He is the one that had the tiff with Sam bankman Fried at the bar, and so Duffy is back.

How many bocas have I been to? Let's see, nineteen ninety five was my first one, and I I don't believe I missed any outside of the pandemic when they held off. So let's add up those years and it seems to be quite a few, so probably close to thirty plus book as I've been to.

How many bocas have I been to? Let's see, nineteen ninety five was my first one, and I I don't believe I missed any outside of the pandemic when they held off. So let's add up those years and it seems to be quite a few, so probably close to thirty plus book as I've been to.

He's still running CME, and they offer crypto futures.

He's still running CME, and they offer crypto futures.

I think that crypto. From our standpoint, we haven't deviated much from what we did in twenty seventeen. So we listed bitcoin as you know, then we listed ether. Now we just announced we're going to list Solana specifically.

I think that crypto. From our standpoint, we haven't deviated much from what we did in twenty seventeen. So we listed bitcoin as you know, then we listed ether. Now we just announced we're going to list Solana specifically.

CME has derivative products that allow its customers to speculate on the price of all these coins without actually owning the underlying cryptocurrencies.

CME has derivative products that allow its customers to speculate on the price of all these coins without actually owning the underlying cryptocurrencies.

So they've found a way to do this in a regulated manner. They are a regulated exchange in the US, and there's by no means of resistance. In many ways, it's an embrace of the crypto industry. But Terry has a lot to reflect on.

So they've found a way to do this in a regulated manner. They are a regulated exchange in the US, and there's by no means of resistance. In many ways, it's an embrace of the crypto industry. But Terry has a lot to reflect on.

I think what's really important as we're into this new administration of President Trump and his cabinet is to see how they feel about the regulatory process of this cause one of the things I can understand is when regulators aren't quite sure if it should be approved or not approved, so they do nothing, and then the horse runs out of the barn. Then they got to put the horseback in the barn.

I think what's really important as we're into this new administration of President Trump and his cabinet is to see how they feel about the regulatory process of this cause one of the things I can understand is when regulators aren't quite sure if it should be approved or not approved, so they do nothing, and then the horse runs out of the barn. Then they got to put the horseback in the barn.

So that's Terry, So he represents the old guard. How about the new guard? Who did you talk to from that group?

So that's Terry, So he represents the old guard. How about the new guard? Who did you talk to from that group?

Yeah?

Yeah?

One of the other leaders of a firm called Digital Asset.

One of the other leaders of a firm called Digital Asset.

My name is Vall Russ. I'm the co founder and CEO of Digital Asset, coming from New York and probably Boca number eight for me.

My name is Vall Russ. I'm the co founder and CEO of Digital Asset, coming from New York and probably Boca number eight for me.

His company has built a blockchain network, and a lot of the conversation down here has been around market efficiency, and someone like you've all talks about how blockchain as a technology can be a use case for improving upon that existing technology.

His company has built a blockchain network, and a lot of the conversation down here has been around market efficiency, and someone like you've all talks about how blockchain as a technology can be a use case for improving upon that existing technology.

You've all also said that his customers are responding to the Trump Administration's new more positive stance toward crypto.

You've all also said that his customers are responding to the Trump Administration's new more positive stance toward crypto.

I would say that under this administration, we are seeing our customers having much more willingness to test this new technology, where the lack of certainty around the regulatory framework before created quite a lot of fear even to try to innovate with this technology.

I would say that under this administration, we are seeing our customers having much more willingness to test this new technology, where the lack of certainty around the regulatory framework before created quite a lot of fear even to try to innovate with this technology.

So you're looking at this conference as kind of a microcosm for the broader industry's acceptance of crypto today. Are there skeptics in the mix? Is this kind of emblematic of a sea change that's taken place?

So you're looking at this conference as kind of a microcosm for the broader industry's acceptance of crypto today. Are there skeptics in the mix? Is this kind of emblematic of a sea change that's taken place?

There are skeptics.

There are skeptics.

I think the big question mark that needs to be answered is if the expectation is this is a friendlier regulatory environment, which I think that's a pretty obvious statement or something that everyone agrees on. The question then becomes what does the regulation actually look like?

I think the big question mark that needs to be answered is if the expectation is this is a friendlier regulatory environment, which I think that's a pretty obvious statement or something that everyone agrees on. The question then becomes what does the regulation actually look like?

And it's quite hard for these.

And it's quite hard for these.

Companies to plan in a way that they can start taking action without that regulatory.

Companies to plan in a way that they can start taking action without that regulatory.

Roadmap in front of them.

Roadmap in front of them.

So I think that's the skepticism that I hear here is all right. I think there's a path, but that path is still murky, so we got to be careful.

So I think that's the skepticism that I hear here is all right. I think there's a path, but that path is still murky, so we got to be careful.

So you're seeing this embrace take place at this at this important conference. How long is it going to take to see whether or not this sticks if it becomes something that, yes, is happening in microcosm there at this conference in Boca, but finds its way to the broader industry.

So you're seeing this embrace take place at this at this important conference. How long is it going to take to see whether or not this sticks if it becomes something that, yes, is happening in microcosm there at this conference in Boca, but finds its way to the broader industry.

The future of how this evolves, I think so much of it.

The future of how this evolves, I think so much of it.

If it was just up to the industry, it would happen a lot faster, but it's not. The industry has to work with regulators and the rules have to be established in order for the action to then take place. So I'd imagine it's going to happen faster than the previous administration, but it's not, again, all up to these business leaders.

If it was just up to the industry, it would happen a lot faster, but it's not. The industry has to work with regulators and the rules have to be established in order for the action to then take place. So I'd imagine it's going to happen faster than the previous administration, but it's not, again, all up to these business leaders.

What would that mean for the financial system in the US and around the world. What does it look like? How does it stand to change if this goes forward?

What would that mean for the financial system in the US and around the world. What does it look like? How does it stand to change if this goes forward?

So I think that many participants describe it in two ways. There's crypto trading, and we've already started to see that infiltrate institutional finance with the introduction of crypto ETFs and now we're seeing crypto options, and then you have the conversation around blockchain and the use case of how do you create these networks that many would just jump to you and say this is tied to crypto or digital assets, but blockchain specifically gets referenced by many of the banks that I talked to bank leaders down here and the exchanges. That's more of the use case and less of the trading of an asset. And so I think that those are the two buckets that folks are exploring down here of what does the future look like? And I think that there's going to be an evolution for both.

So I think that many participants describe it in two ways. There's crypto trading, and we've already started to see that infiltrate institutional finance with the introduction of crypto ETFs and now we're seeing crypto options, and then you have the conversation around blockchain and the use case of how do you create these networks that many would just jump to you and say this is tied to crypto or digital assets, but blockchain specifically gets referenced by many of the banks that I talked to bank leaders down here and the exchanges. That's more of the use case and less of the trading of an asset. And so I think that those are the two buckets that folks are exploring down here of what does the future look like? And I think that there's going to be an evolution for both.

Catherine, it's great to talk to you. Thank you very much.

Catherine, it's great to talk to you. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gura. This episode is produced by Alex tie. It was edited by Tracy Samuelson, Stacy, Marie Ishmael, and Isis Almeida. It was fact checked by Adriana Tapia and mixed and sound designed by Alex Sagura. Our senior producer is Naomi Shaven. Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso. Our executive producer is Nicole Beamster Boor Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. If you liked this episode, make sure to subscribe and review The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show. Thanks for listening, We'll be back tomorrow

This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gura. This episode is produced by Alex tie. It was edited by Tracy Samuelson, Stacy, Marie Ishmael, and Isis Almeida. It was fact checked by Adriana Tapia and mixed and sound designed by Alex Sagura. Our senior producer is Naomi Shaven. Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso. Our executive producer is Nicole Beamster Boor Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. If you liked this episode, make sure to subscribe and review The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show. Thanks for listening, We'll be back tomorrow