I want to be excited before coming here, on the way here, or like if you're coming to my house and hang out, there's a oh, there's an excitement. Yes, I'm going to see Brandon today. We're gonna talk, We're gonna vibe. And I require that a.

I want to be excited before coming here, on the way here, or like if you're coming to my house and hang out, there's a oh, there's an excitement. Yes, I'm going to see Brandon today. We're gonna talk, We're gonna vibe. And I require that a.

Thousand percent in every relationship.

Thousand percent in every relationship.

Absolutely, And if I'm not excited, if I'm not looking forward, yeah I'm not coming.

Absolutely, And if I'm not excited, if I'm not looking forward, yeah I'm not coming.

You know what, this is a safe space to talk about relationships, love and sex. Now let me tell you something messy. Hello and Happy Pride, Happy Pride month. You know, we gay every day, but we especially gay. I want to say in May because that rhymes, but it's June, June to the moon. Does that work? I don't know. So this past weekend we had wes Hollywood Pride. I think I've talked about this, like wes Hollywood and Los Angeles have separate Pride, So it's my understanding that this coming weekend is La Pride Lot. Anyways, we hope Pride. They have like a festival in the park and I think there's a parade. I don't really know because I didn't go. But there were some other parties and I had us. We had us a time. So I I don't really love going to the festival. Not not because it's a Pride festival. I'm just not a festival girly. Like I'm not at Coachella, I'm not at you know, Sunday, and I'm not I'm not a festival girly. It's like so many people. It really rattles my brain. My nervous system gets just regulated because it's a lot of energy, and especially with like you know, a pride energy. You know, people are are in various states of unrest, various states of drugs, and so it can be a lot. And so my bestie and I one of my best seats and I started doing this thing where we set our intentions before we go out. So we're like, when we know we're going to like one of the big gay parties or gay warehouse parties, and we're like, no, we want to go because we want to dance, want to have a vibe, but like we want to also set intentions because be the vibe, you know, instead of like letting the vibes happen to you, be the vibe, be the vibe you wish to see in the world. Isn't that what they say, didn't that what Gandhi said be the vibe you wish to see in the world. And so we made our intentions that I want to read you some of our intentions. Okay, I said that we wanted liberated fun. Okay, not just any kind of fun, but fun where you're like, we're free, baby. Okay. Meaningful connections because I find that a lot of these events is small talk. And if you don't know this about me now, please no, I hate small talk. Don't talk about the fucking weather. I fucking can't do it. Like, tell me something, even if it's two seconds. Tell me something real, tell me something messy. Okay, So meaningful connections. Ancestral safety, because safety is one thing, but I really, I really want to feel my graand like if you play in my fucking face, know that my grandmother has your number. You know what I'm saying. And sesstual safety. Okay, So really, don't come at me any kind of ways, left, right, sideways, don't do it because the ancestors got me. We want to jaw dropping music, open hearted vibes, unapologetically rating our light softness, a memorable evening we will smile about for years to come. Honey, I was eating on this, Okay, feeling the truth my best of your other is feeling the truth that's always there, because we're talking about hindsight is twenty twenty. But the truth of things is actually always present, like even in the moment, the truth of how you feel, the truth of what's happening is always actually present. But do we want to see it? Compassion for ourselves and others, spirit guidance, intuitive nudges towards certain choices. And I did say this, big fat, veiny thick dicks attached to compassionate, sexy sex loving men. Listen, Okay, wait, hold on, let me start it. Let me I want you to add that or some version of that to your intentions. I said that because there are plenty of dicks in the sea, and you can ask for any dicks, and there are plenty of dicks. I'm gonna go to these parties. It's a gay party, I'm gonna see lots of dicks. But I wanted a specific kind of dick, and I wanted that dick to be attached to a specific kind of person. Okay, And so I wanted to say it all. I was like, I want a big fat veiny, thick dick attached to a compassionate, sexy, sex loving man. That's what I wanted. Did I get it? That's fucking love. I got it all. I'm not gonna give you. Listen, I'll tell you all about the details on the substack. You know, I'm rebranding the Hey Everybody, Subseack Pod to the Messy Mom Pod. So I'm gonna tell you more about the stories of my pride on the Messy Mom Pod over on subsack printiccogament dot subsack dot com. But I ooh, girl, I got to that party and somebody started dancing on me and then I like felt I was like, oh my god, that said. I looked up and I said, thank you, Grandma. Thank you Grandma. You like your child, baby, you lay your child. You sent me that big okay, and the man was very compassionate. It was lovely. Anyways, we'll talk about it on the podcast. Anyways. Well, by the way, welcome to the show. This is telling me something messy. I'm your host, Brandon Kyle Goodman. But you could call me a dick conjurer, because I certainly did conjure that big fat bandy thick dick period. Okay, she's a manifesto. Baby, you know what that means? Well, actually you don't, because it's the first time we're using that sound and wasn't it epic? Honey? That sound means all them trumpets mean that we are doing a Messy master Class, which is an episode where I get to dive deep into a subject that our guest has a lot of experience or expertise it. And today our Messy master Class is about adult relationships with our mothers and family. And I'm so excited to have that conversation with my friend and mentor the one, the only Lena. Wait now, while she gets situated, we will get our messy Masterclass started with a hoe manifest sto repeat after me aloud or in your head. Grant me the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to know that sex is not about penetration, the audacity to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries, the strength to not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl, or fuck may for it is better to masturbate by myself in peace than to let someone play in my motherfucking face. Let the whole unity say ho lujah. I am so excited to have Lena wait on the show. In twenty seventeen, Lena won the Emmy for Best Comedy Writing for the Thanksgiving episode of Master of None, the first black woman to do so. As a writer, producer, actor, and founder, Lena Waite expertly taps into emerging societal trends with a sharp wit, speaking to a myriad of experiences from her unique perspective while challenging audiences to think outside of conventional norms. For her numerous television successes, Waith was named the Hollywood Reporter's twenty twenty TV Producer of the Year, making her the youngest to receive the massive honor. Waith is an advocate for queer representation throughout the industry and has been honored with several accolades and is featured in numerous LGBTQ impact lists and pride issues across publications such as The Hollywood Reporter, Fast Company, Variety, and more. Y'all please help me, welcome, lead away, Helena, Thank you for having me, thank you for being here. Looking before we dive in MESSI mandates so things get to be unprocessed. Any thoughts or opinions shared have the right to evolve, shift, or change today tomorrow, ten years from now, and if during the key keys of feels too personal or unintentionally offense, we use the safe word football, which gives us a chance to pivot and address accordingly.

You know what, this is a safe space to talk about relationships, love and sex. Now let me tell you something messy. Hello and Happy Pride, Happy Pride month. You know, we gay every day, but we especially gay. I want to say in May because that rhymes, but it's June, June to the moon. Does that work? I don't know. So this past weekend we had wes Hollywood Pride. I think I've talked about this, like wes Hollywood and Los Angeles have separate Pride, So it's my understanding that this coming weekend is La Pride Lot. Anyways, we hope Pride. They have like a festival in the park and I think there's a parade. I don't really know because I didn't go. But there were some other parties and I had us. We had us a time. So I I don't really love going to the festival. Not not because it's a Pride festival. I'm just not a festival girly. Like I'm not at Coachella, I'm not at you know, Sunday, and I'm not I'm not a festival girly. It's like so many people. It really rattles my brain. My nervous system gets just regulated because it's a lot of energy, and especially with like you know, a pride energy. You know, people are are in various states of unrest, various states of drugs, and so it can be a lot. And so my bestie and I one of my best seats and I started doing this thing where we set our intentions before we go out. So we're like, when we know we're going to like one of the big gay parties or gay warehouse parties, and we're like, no, we want to go because we want to dance, want to have a vibe, but like we want to also set intentions because be the vibe, you know, instead of like letting the vibes happen to you, be the vibe, be the vibe you wish to see in the world. Isn't that what they say, didn't that what Gandhi said be the vibe you wish to see in the world. And so we made our intentions that I want to read you some of our intentions. Okay, I said that we wanted liberated fun. Okay, not just any kind of fun, but fun where you're like, we're free, baby. Okay. Meaningful connections because I find that a lot of these events is small talk. And if you don't know this about me now, please no, I hate small talk. Don't talk about the fucking weather. I fucking can't do it. Like, tell me something, even if it's two seconds. Tell me something real, tell me something messy. Okay, So meaningful connections. Ancestral safety, because safety is one thing, but I really, I really want to feel my graand like if you play in my fucking face, know that my grandmother has your number. You know what I'm saying. And sesstual safety. Okay, So really, don't come at me any kind of ways, left, right, sideways, don't do it because the ancestors got me. We want to jaw dropping music, open hearted vibes, unapologetically rating our light softness, a memorable evening we will smile about for years to come. Honey, I was eating on this, Okay, feeling the truth my best of your other is feeling the truth that's always there, because we're talking about hindsight is twenty twenty. But the truth of things is actually always present, like even in the moment, the truth of how you feel, the truth of what's happening is always actually present. But do we want to see it? Compassion for ourselves and others, spirit guidance, intuitive nudges towards certain choices. And I did say this, big fat, veiny thick dicks attached to compassionate, sexy sex loving men. Listen, Okay, wait, hold on, let me start it. Let me I want you to add that or some version of that to your intentions. I said that because there are plenty of dicks in the sea, and you can ask for any dicks, and there are plenty of dicks. I'm gonna go to these parties. It's a gay party, I'm gonna see lots of dicks. But I wanted a specific kind of dick, and I wanted that dick to be attached to a specific kind of person. Okay, And so I wanted to say it all. I was like, I want a big fat veiny, thick dick attached to a compassionate, sexy, sex loving man. That's what I wanted. Did I get it? That's fucking love. I got it all. I'm not gonna give you. Listen, I'll tell you all about the details on the substack. You know, I'm rebranding the Hey Everybody, Subseack Pod to the Messy Mom Pod. So I'm gonna tell you more about the stories of my pride on the Messy Mom Pod over on subsack printiccogament dot subsack dot com. But I ooh, girl, I got to that party and somebody started dancing on me and then I like felt I was like, oh my god, that said. I looked up and I said, thank you, Grandma. Thank you Grandma. You like your child, baby, you lay your child. You sent me that big okay, and the man was very compassionate. It was lovely. Anyways, we'll talk about it on the podcast. Anyways. Well, by the way, welcome to the show. This is telling me something messy. I'm your host, Brandon Kyle Goodman. But you could call me a dick conjurer, because I certainly did conjure that big fat bandy thick dick period. Okay, she's a manifesto. Baby, you know what that means? Well, actually you don't, because it's the first time we're using that sound and wasn't it epic? Honey? That sound means all them trumpets mean that we are doing a Messy master Class, which is an episode where I get to dive deep into a subject that our guest has a lot of experience or expertise it. And today our Messy master Class is about adult relationships with our mothers and family. And I'm so excited to have that conversation with my friend and mentor the one, the only Lena. Wait now, while she gets situated, we will get our messy Masterclass started with a hoe manifest sto repeat after me aloud or in your head. Grant me the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to know that sex is not about penetration, the audacity to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries, the strength to not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl, or fuck may for it is better to masturbate by myself in peace than to let someone play in my motherfucking face. Let the whole unity say ho lujah. I am so excited to have Lena wait on the show. In twenty seventeen, Lena won the Emmy for Best Comedy Writing for the Thanksgiving episode of Master of None, the first black woman to do so. As a writer, producer, actor, and founder, Lena Waite expertly taps into emerging societal trends with a sharp wit, speaking to a myriad of experiences from her unique perspective while challenging audiences to think outside of conventional norms. For her numerous television successes, Waith was named the Hollywood Reporter's twenty twenty TV Producer of the Year, making her the youngest to receive the massive honor. Waith is an advocate for queer representation throughout the industry and has been honored with several accolades and is featured in numerous LGBTQ impact lists and pride issues across publications such as The Hollywood Reporter, Fast Company, Variety, and more. Y'all please help me, welcome, lead away, Helena, Thank you for having me, thank you for being here. Looking before we dive in MESSI mandates so things get to be unprocessed. Any thoughts or opinions shared have the right to evolve, shift, or change today tomorrow, ten years from now, and if during the key keys of feels too personal or unintentionally offense, we use the safe word football, which gives us a chance to pivot and address accordingly.

Does you like a podcast? Are the only podcast with the safe word?

Does you like a podcast? Are the only podcast with the safe word?

I think I'm the only one that I know with the safe word. I mean, but I think so, right, because I'm like, you never know, when you get too spicy, you're just like a little a little out.

I think I'm the only one that I know with the safe word. I mean, but I think so, right, because I'm like, you never know, when you get too spicy, you're just like a little a little out.

I think to me, also, it's like you totally forget in the moment ago. What's the safe word again?

I think to me, also, it's like you totally forget in the moment ago. What's the safe word again?

Yeah, yeah, that's why I think. Is it sex? With Emily? She talks about I think the safe word is like or in general, like red or like a red because stop remember that. But here, I like to have a little fun. So all right, let's start with a little game. It's called this or that, and it's kind of you know what. I know, we're out of tour season, but it's a little it's a little toy and heavy because it's always season.

Yeah, yeah, that's why I think. Is it sex? With Emily? She talks about I think the safe word is like or in general, like red or like a red because stop remember that. But here, I like to have a little fun. So all right, let's start with a little game. It's called this or that, and it's kind of you know what. I know, we're out of tour season, but it's a little it's a little toy and heavy because it's always season.

When you're turan is always and that's just that's what it is.

When you're turan is always and that's just that's what it is.

Always soft, it's always luxurious, Okay, so this or that. I'll give you a prompts and you'll tell me if you want this or that. So watching TV or making out.

Always soft, it's always luxurious, Okay, so this or that. I'll give you a prompts and you'll tell me if you want this or that. So watching TV or making out.

It's hard to choose between the two because if I'm watching TV, yeah, I'm really engaged.

It's hard to choose between the two because if I'm watching TV, yeah, I'm really engaged.

Yeah, and you don't want to know. Yeah.

Yeah, and you don't want to know. Yeah.

But if I'm making out, I'm really engaged in that. Yeah, I enjoy both. I cannot have to be a real break this one. So it's if I was on drink champs, I'll take a drink.

But if I'm making out, I'm really engaged in that. Yeah, I enjoy both. I cannot have to be a real break this one. So it's if I was on drink champs, I'll take a drink.

Okay, work work, So I guess here we'll call it a uh that, this act, this that, this and that, this and that. Okay, there we go oka just like that and just like that. Okay, we'll call it just like that. Mine is making out. I think I'll pick over watching TV. I think today that speaks of the libido. You know, I got a little a little up there is a little more, a little lotder. Yeah, I'm see I'm taking my what's the thing, the little the horning root or whatever? Oh wow, okay, this or that I'm making out or.

Okay, work work, So I guess here we'll call it a uh that, this act, this that, this and that, this and that. Okay, there we go oka just like that and just like that. Okay, we'll call it just like that. Mine is making out. I think I'll pick over watching TV. I think today that speaks of the libido. You know, I got a little a little up there is a little more, a little lotder. Yeah, I'm see I'm taking my what's the thing, the little the horning root or whatever? Oh wow, okay, this or that I'm making out or.

Cuddling, cuddling for sure, yeah you know that.

Cuddling, cuddling for sure, yeah you know that.

The see, yeah, I'm making out a cuddling. I get hot something making out for me.

The see, yeah, I'm making out a cuddling. I get hot something making out for me.

Making that is like takes work and it's often leads to something.

Making that is like takes work and it's often leads to something.

Sure.

Sure.

So I think cuddling is just comforting.

So I think cuddling is just comforting.

Yeah, it's a little warm, it's like a safety blanket. Yeah. And you can't cuddle with.

Yeah, it's a little warm, it's like a safety blanket. Yeah. And you can't cuddle with.

Everybody, no, no, you have to be safe.

Everybody, no, no, you have to be safe.

Yes, yes, Okay, cuddling or eating your favorite meal.

Yes, yes, Okay, cuddling or eating your favorite meal.

You know I'm a foodie. Yeah, I really love a good cuddle. But I'm gonna say like eating a great meal, because that's something I think is just like that's very intimate. Like I love having a great meal with someone I really care about.

You know I'm a foodie. Yeah, I really love a good cuddle. But I'm gonna say like eating a great meal, because that's something I think is just like that's very intimate. Like I love having a great meal with someone I really care about.

Yeah. Also like eating a great meal it feels like love one but also just like I don't know, it activates all the senses. Yeah, like cuddling activates some sense. But eating the meal.

Yeah. Also like eating a great meal it feels like love one but also just like I don't know, it activates all the senses. Yeah, like cuddling activates some sense. But eating the meal.

That's really good because then you guys get be like, oh this is good. Yeah yeah yeah, and then you feel comfortable at.

That's really good because then you guys get be like, oh this is good. Yeah yeah yeah, and then you feel comfortable at.

Least the cuddling after.

Least the cuddling after.

Yeah, it all comes back like I like both, that's what's happening.

Yeah, it all comes back like I like both, that's what's happening.

I know. That's why it's so hard. Okay, So eating your favorite meal or foot massage.

I know. That's why it's so hard. Okay, So eating your favorite meal or foot massage.

And I do like a massage.

And I do like a massage.

I love a massage.

I love a massage.

I do like to be rubbedesh.

I do like to be rubbedesh.

These are hard hidden questions. Yeah, journalists.

These are hard hidden questions. Yeah, journalists.

I mean, I do love food, but I also really love massage. That's the problem with your tourists as well. No, I know, but I think it depends on where I'm at, Like I think I'm massage scheduled today. Yeah, so I need that touch, that relaxing energy.

I mean, I do love food, but I also really love massage. That's the problem with your tourists as well. No, I know, but I think it depends on where I'm at, Like I think I'm massage scheduled today. Yeah, so I need that touch, that relaxing energy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think for me, like food, I'm very I think of it like sex. You know, it's interesting because it's book Mother Hunger, which I told you about reading that there's a part where it asks you to compare like your relationship with food to your relationship with sex. Oh right, And so it was very revelatory because I mean, like literally, like it's a you know, you can fill it out, so you have to be active and engaged. But I realized that with food, I'm a person that it's not a crutch for me. It's not something that I go to when I'm upset. I can't do it when I'm in like distress, orf I'm sad. It's something that I you know, I always say I don't want to waste calories. So if I have a meal, I wanted to be really enjoyable and special and well thought out, and I think I have that same relationship to sex. It is not something that I'm cavalier about or do if I'm that I need to feel connected to someone, or I need to feel seen, or I need to feel validated, or I need it to numb something or for me to forget. It's like I can't do it if I'm in distress or if upset. And I think some people like needed to make their problems go away, or to feel seen or to feel loved, to feel connected, or to escape. And to me, it's something it's a spiritual experience. So it's something to enjoy and not to to overdo. If I'm like eating all day, then I'm just kind of like I've lost.

And I think for me, like food, I'm very I think of it like sex. You know, it's interesting because it's book Mother Hunger, which I told you about reading that there's a part where it asks you to compare like your relationship with food to your relationship with sex. Oh right, And so it was very revelatory because I mean, like literally, like it's a you know, you can fill it out, so you have to be active and engaged. But I realized that with food, I'm a person that it's not a crutch for me. It's not something that I go to when I'm upset. I can't do it when I'm in like distress, orf I'm sad. It's something that I you know, I always say I don't want to waste calories. So if I have a meal, I wanted to be really enjoyable and special and well thought out, and I think I have that same relationship to sex. It is not something that I'm cavalier about or do if I'm that I need to feel connected to someone, or I need to feel seen, or I need to feel validated, or I need it to numb something or for me to forget. It's like I can't do it if I'm in distress or if upset. And I think some people like needed to make their problems go away, or to feel seen or to feel loved, to feel connected, or to escape. And to me, it's something it's a spiritual experience. So it's something to enjoy and not to to overdo. If I'm like eating all day, then I'm just kind of like I've lost.

The special specialists.

The special specialists.

Yeah, And so for me, it's like having sex every day and all the time it feels like, well, wait a minute, what's going on? Like what am I trying to mask? What am I trying to for me? Not anyone else, Yeah, for my journey, but it's for me. It's like when I do it, I wanted to be really special and spiritual and memorable. Yeah, And I think that's how I feel about food. And so I never thought about the two together and until that book Mother Hunger, Have.

Yeah, And so for me, it's like having sex every day and all the time it feels like, well, wait a minute, what's going on? Like what am I trying to mask? What am I trying to for me? Not anyone else, Yeah, for my journey, but it's for me. It's like when I do it, I wanted to be really special and spiritual and memorable. Yeah, And I think that's how I feel about food. And so I never thought about the two together and until that book Mother Hunger, Have.

A Mother Hunger I started, I was I'm listening to it ohen I got to the section I think it's chapter two, so I'm early in about avoidant attachment. That thing read me for film, because basically it's like avoidant attachment. You are masquerade as needing emotional connection, but the moment people get too close, you kind of flutter. But also you pick people who do want closeness so you don't ever have to ask for it, because if you're avoidant, like you don't for those things, but you still need it. Yeah, So then you pick partners who are have a different attachment that will be more proactive about needing closeness, so then you never have to ask for it. And I was like, oh, that that sounds like everything sounds like I've only just started, like really diving into attachment theory and what an attachment is for sure, mate, which I believe comes from a mother who dismisses you or something. It's something like that.

A Mother Hunger I started, I was I'm listening to it ohen I got to the section I think it's chapter two, so I'm early in about avoidant attachment. That thing read me for film, because basically it's like avoidant attachment. You are masquerade as needing emotional connection, but the moment people get too close, you kind of flutter. But also you pick people who do want closeness so you don't ever have to ask for it, because if you're avoidant, like you don't for those things, but you still need it. Yeah, So then you pick partners who are have a different attachment that will be more proactive about needing closeness, so then you never have to ask for it. And I was like, oh, that that sounds like everything sounds like I've only just started, like really diving into attachment theory and what an attachment is for sure, mate, which I believe comes from a mother who dismisses you or something. It's something like that.

Yeah. The book does focus particularly has a very long title. We don't want to butcher it, but it's about the three things that you need to get from your mother, which is nurturance, protection, and guidance. And so what Katha McDaniel does is she sort of breaks down certain personality traits you start to adopt as you become an adult based on the things that you didn't get as a child. Yeah, and it really can be really eye opening. And what it does is it'll read you for filth, but also it'll start helping you to understand the people around you, your partner, folks in your community, other members of your family, because you you start to understand, Oh, their mother might not have given them nurturance. That's why they're contant looking for validation. Their mother didn't give them protection. That's why they're constantly looking for that that their mother didn't give them guidance. That's where they seem to be floating with no direction. And then it also takes you to another generation whereas it asks you, you know, had you thinking about what did your mother not get from her mother? Yeah, because whatever she didn't get, she's not gonna be able to give to you.

Yeah. The book does focus particularly has a very long title. We don't want to butcher it, but it's about the three things that you need to get from your mother, which is nurturance, protection, and guidance. And so what Katha McDaniel does is she sort of breaks down certain personality traits you start to adopt as you become an adult based on the things that you didn't get as a child. Yeah, and it really can be really eye opening. And what it does is it'll read you for filth, but also it'll start helping you to understand the people around you, your partner, folks in your community, other members of your family, because you you start to understand, Oh, their mother might not have given them nurturance. That's why they're contant looking for validation. Their mother didn't give them protection. That's why they're constantly looking for that that their mother didn't give them guidance. That's where they seem to be floating with no direction. And then it also takes you to another generation whereas it asks you, you know, had you thinking about what did your mother not get from her mother? Yeah, because whatever she didn't get, she's not gonna be able to give to you.

Yes, it gives you that book. And I also think about adult children of emotionally immature parents, like those books that really grant you the empathy to We talked about this here, like disruptive curiosity, like asking the hard questions to interrupt patterns that allow you to live a liberated life. And it's like those books really take the parent off the pedestal and humanize them, and then also humanizes everyone around you because we're like, oh, yeah, we all deal with the same function.

Yes, it gives you that book. And I also think about adult children of emotionally immature parents, like those books that really grant you the empathy to We talked about this here, like disruptive curiosity, like asking the hard questions to interrupt patterns that allow you to live a liberated life. And it's like those books really take the parent off the pedestal and humanize them, and then also humanizes everyone around you because we're like, oh, yeah, we all deal with the same function.

There's this really interesting interview with Baldwin which I'll send to you, but he starts off by saying that there was a moment of learning when you realize, as my parent was not here for that sole purpose. Yeah, And it's really, I think a really beautiful way of saying that, right that exactly. He's like, you really like your parent was a person before they became your parents. Yes, and that is so eye opening and revelatory because you start to realize that they are a person.

There's this really interesting interview with Baldwin which I'll send to you, but he starts off by saying that there was a moment of learning when you realize, as my parent was not here for that sole purpose. Yeah, And it's really, I think a really beautiful way of saying that, right that exactly. He's like, you really like your parent was a person before they became your parents. Yes, and that is so eye opening and revelatory because you start to realize that they are a person.

Yeah. And but what's kind of confusing. And you know, I'm at the you know, we're at the age where people are having probably their second kid at this point, but people are having a lot of children around us, and the way that we're raised to want to have kids and to make our purpose having kids, And then I think what I hear a lot is and you have the kids and you realize, well, that's not enough for my purpose. And now you're kind of caught in this having to redefine you're, if you're conscious about it, having to redefine parenthood, which a lot of people don't end up doing. I don't think our parents did, but like having to be like, oh, this actually is a enough and that's okay, I can do more things. But I think our parents like made it the focus or ignored it completely.

Yeah. And but what's kind of confusing. And you know, I'm at the you know, we're at the age where people are having probably their second kid at this point, but people are having a lot of children around us, and the way that we're raised to want to have kids and to make our purpose having kids, And then I think what I hear a lot is and you have the kids and you realize, well, that's not enough for my purpose. And now you're kind of caught in this having to redefine you're, if you're conscious about it, having to redefine parenthood, which a lot of people don't end up doing. I don't think our parents did, but like having to be like, oh, this actually is a enough and that's okay, I can do more things. But I think our parents like made it the focus or ignored it completely.

Like I'm forty one, and so I was born in eighty four, and my mom was born in fifty three, and my grandmother was in the twenty. So it's like what you're really having to look at is the world in which they were born into. And also my grandmother was born in Arkansas and moved to Chicago when she was seventeen, you know, and then had three children, and my mother had us in the eighties, had two children. And so I think what your parent decides what a parent is is based on what society tells them that a parent is supposed to be at the time. And to take it back to my grandmother with her mother, which I you know, of course you don't know a ton about because she didn't talk about her mom that much. But her mom had, you know, a fair amount of kids in the South, you know, at a time where it was not fun to be a black family. But there's an element of children were sort of had to you know, to keep the house, to work the house, to work the land, you know, and to it was something that you know, one did. And also they were like, you know, I think my grandma was like maybe one of like eight or something like that. There were more children, and so therefore there wasn't a lot of nurturance happening, and there was only so much protection parents could give their children, particularly if you're part of a marginalized community, especially in the Southern States. So there was that, and I think for my mother being born in Chicago in the fifties, still a very interesting time in America. But then it was sort of my grandmothers sort of took maybe what parenting to her meant that still not a lot of nurturance or getting to know one's child. Having fewer children, so but.

Like I'm forty one, and so I was born in eighty four, and my mom was born in fifty three, and my grandmother was in the twenty. So it's like what you're really having to look at is the world in which they were born into. And also my grandmother was born in Arkansas and moved to Chicago when she was seventeen, you know, and then had three children, and my mother had us in the eighties, had two children. And so I think what your parent decides what a parent is is based on what society tells them that a parent is supposed to be at the time. And to take it back to my grandmother with her mother, which I you know, of course you don't know a ton about because she didn't talk about her mom that much. But her mom had, you know, a fair amount of kids in the South, you know, at a time where it was not fun to be a black family. But there's an element of children were sort of had to you know, to keep the house, to work the house, to work the land, you know, and to it was something that you know, one did. And also they were like, you know, I think my grandma was like maybe one of like eight or something like that. There were more children, and so therefore there wasn't a lot of nurturance happening, and there was only so much protection parents could give their children, particularly if you're part of a marginalized community, especially in the Southern States. So there was that, and I think for my mother being born in Chicago in the fifties, still a very interesting time in America. But then it was sort of my grandmothers sort of took maybe what parenting to her meant that still not a lot of nurturance or getting to know one's child. Having fewer children, so but.

Still you don't know how to interrupt that still exactly.

Still you don't know how to interrupt that still exactly.

And then my mother had one less child than my grandmother had. As you could see, the kids become lesser and lesser my sister. You know, another generation only has one child. It is not that interesting. You know, people have fewer and fewer kids because of sort of education or understanding and just sort of what one actually has the capacity to deal with. Yes, and I think, you know, I think sometimes for my parents' generation, your parents generation, it was more about you should have kids. Yes, I don't know necessarily a want or desire, but it's something you should do. It's what completes you, especially as a woman, right exactly, It's something that you should do. And then you know, of course, my mother got divorced when I was two, and so she has a four year old and a two year old. And then we moved back into my grandmother's home, and now my grandmother has a different sense of what nurturing or raising her children looks like. Other times you have grandparents who are better parents to their grandchildren than they were to their own children. Creative resentment within that adult child watching their parent be a better parent to their children than they were to them. But I think, you know, for my sister and I, we were taken care of in terms of making sure we had enough food to eat, clothes in our backs, and a place to live. I don't know how much nurturance or getting to know one was happening. And I think that's the thing that our parents sort of didn't know how to do, or was it sort of a requirement. And I think now people our age are looking at their children. Who knows. I don't want to make a sweeping statement, but there's an idea of who are you? Because the purpose is more to bring forth the child, not that the child becomes your purpose.

And then my mother had one less child than my grandmother had. As you could see, the kids become lesser and lesser my sister. You know, another generation only has one child. It is not that interesting. You know, people have fewer and fewer kids because of sort of education or understanding and just sort of what one actually has the capacity to deal with. Yes, and I think, you know, I think sometimes for my parents' generation, your parents generation, it was more about you should have kids. Yes, I don't know necessarily a want or desire, but it's something you should do. It's what completes you, especially as a woman, right exactly, It's something that you should do. And then you know, of course, my mother got divorced when I was two, and so she has a four year old and a two year old. And then we moved back into my grandmother's home, and now my grandmother has a different sense of what nurturing or raising her children looks like. Other times you have grandparents who are better parents to their grandchildren than they were to their own children. Creative resentment within that adult child watching their parent be a better parent to their children than they were to them. But I think, you know, for my sister and I, we were taken care of in terms of making sure we had enough food to eat, clothes in our backs, and a place to live. I don't know how much nurturance or getting to know one was happening. And I think that's the thing that our parents sort of didn't know how to do, or was it sort of a requirement. And I think now people our age are looking at their children. Who knows. I don't want to make a sweeping statement, but there's an idea of who are you? Because the purpose is more to bring forth the child, not that the child becomes your purpose.

Okay, you came to prea change you.

Okay, you came to prea change you.

Okay, you know the purpose of that child is not to take care of you an old age, yes, because if the love is pure, there was no expectation. But yet I think our parents still have expectations on us to be there as adults, even when they did not bond with us as children. And so I think that's something that I grapple with and saying, you did not get to know me as a child, but yet want to have me in your life now that I'm an adult and we don't know each othership right, But there's this idea that because you are my child again that word possessive. I do not belong to my mother. I belong to myself. And that is where people always say when you have children, they are like your heart walking around in human form. And the thing is, your children are destined to break your heart.

Okay, you know the purpose of that child is not to take care of you an old age, yes, because if the love is pure, there was no expectation. But yet I think our parents still have expectations on us to be there as adults, even when they did not bond with us as children. And so I think that's something that I grapple with and saying, you did not get to know me as a child, but yet want to have me in your life now that I'm an adult and we don't know each othership right, But there's this idea that because you are my child again that word possessive. I do not belong to my mother. I belong to myself. And that is where people always say when you have children, they are like your heart walking around in human form. And the thing is, your children are destined to break your heart.

Because you have an idea of ideal of what they should be or what you want them to be.

Because you have an idea of ideal of what they should be or what you want them to be.

You become attached to an idea of what relationship you will have with this child when they become an adult. And what happens is if that idea of that dream, if that fantasy doesn't come true, then there is a misery, yes, and now that child is trying to live up to that fantasy, trying to be what you want me to be, trying to be close to you, know, I having no desire to be. Yeah, you want me to be something for you rather than just myself.

You become attached to an idea of what relationship you will have with this child when they become an adult. And what happens is if that idea of that dream, if that fantasy doesn't come true, then there is a misery, yes, and now that child is trying to live up to that fantasy, trying to be what you want me to be, trying to be close to you, know, I having no desire to be. Yeah, you want me to be something for you rather than just myself.

Well, one, I want to talk about the grandparents being a better parent because I do feel that I was the baby and my grandmother, grandmother moved, was the first one from the family to move to America, and so like everyone in our family that is in America, my mom's generation came through my grandmother's house and so all the cousins and everyone kind of like know that home. We grew up in the matron Yes, but I also grew up hearing that she was a tough matriarch, which makes sense. She's a black woman in America, immigrant, like you know, got all these people kids coming through like so she but with me, she was softer, and I think maybe rewriting the hardness that she might have parented like my mother with and then. Though no one's ever said this, I think I felt the animosity. I felt the difference, and I felt whatever tension they might have had. I've never talked about this, but there was a period of time where my mom moved to Manhattan, so I lived in Queen's and my mom moved to Manhattan from like age seven to like nine, and I stayed in Queens with my grandmother. My mother was literally, you know, a thirty minute forty minute drive away, and I went to school and it was normalized to me until maybe like a couple months ago, when I said out loud and somebody was like huh.

Well, one, I want to talk about the grandparents being a better parent because I do feel that I was the baby and my grandmother, grandmother moved, was the first one from the family to move to America, and so like everyone in our family that is in America, my mom's generation came through my grandmother's house and so all the cousins and everyone kind of like know that home. We grew up in the matron Yes, but I also grew up hearing that she was a tough matriarch, which makes sense. She's a black woman in America, immigrant, like you know, got all these people kids coming through like so she but with me, she was softer, and I think maybe rewriting the hardness that she might have parented like my mother with and then. Though no one's ever said this, I think I felt the animosity. I felt the difference, and I felt whatever tension they might have had. I've never talked about this, but there was a period of time where my mom moved to Manhattan, so I lived in Queen's and my mom moved to Manhattan from like age seven to like nine, and I stayed in Queens with my grandmother. My mother was literally, you know, a thirty minute forty minute drive away, and I went to school and it was normalized to me until maybe like a couple months ago, when I said out loud and somebody was like huh.

The mom was like, I'm gonna go live my life. Yeah yeah, I mean my mom would drop me off at my grandmother's house. To the one point I remember crying to my mom saying, you leave me there, Yes, you left me. You've abandoned me in a way.

The mom was like, I'm gonna go live my life. Yeah yeah, I mean my mom would drop me off at my grandmother's house. To the one point I remember crying to my mom saying, you leave me there, Yes, you left me. You've abandoned me in a way.

But for them, I think it was well, you're fed, you're clothed, you are taken care.

But for them, I think it was well, you're fed, you're clothed, you are taken care.

Of, therefore you should be happy.

Of, therefore you should be happy.

Exactly, But there's not the nurturing. That nurturing and taken care of are not the same.

Exactly, But there's not the nurturing. That nurturing and taken care of are not the same.

Another word I like to use, I I put it in the play curiosity. There's a lack of curiosity about the child in terms of who they are. Yes, And I think that because we are a generation where we want our parents to respect our identity. And I think our parents feel as though what identity because they never mind correct but also they never really got a chance to explore theirs.

Another word I like to use, I I put it in the play curiosity. There's a lack of curiosity about the child in terms of who they are. Yes, And I think that because we are a generation where we want our parents to respect our identity. And I think our parents feel as though what identity because they never mind correct but also they never really got a chance to explore theirs.

Yes, so now you get to because of their sacrifices.

Yes, so now you get to because of their sacrifices.

And also it means that we now are complete alien to each other because I'm expressing my identity in so many different ways. Yes, and that looks foreign to our mothers.

And also it means that we now are complete alien to each other because I'm expressing my identity in so many different ways. Yes, and that looks foreign to our mothers.

Yeah, you know which now that you're saying that, Like, I think about that one to one with queer some queer elders that I've come up against, and even like my generation with the younger generation, right, like we talk about I came out in my like at twenty twenty one, I came out, which at the time though early we.

Yeah, you know which now that you're saying that, Like, I think about that one to one with queer some queer elders that I've come up against, and even like my generation with the younger generation, right, like we talk about I came out in my like at twenty twenty one, I came out, which at the time though early we.

Talked about this, Yeah, twenties like that's kind of young.

Talked about this, Yeah, twenties like that's kind of young.

Yeah yeah, but like now, like twenties feels kind of like kids are old.

Yeah yeah, but like now, like twenties feels kind of like kids are old.

Now, it feels like old in fifth grade.

Now, it feels like old in fifth grade.

Yeah, right, And so like there is I was just talking to a friend where it's like, I'm so happy that there's a freedom that the younger generation has, but there's also an animosity that I didn't have that and I felt that from older queers. Sometimes we're like we're expressing ourselves and able to live off of their sacrifices. But there's so there might be a happiness, but there's also an animosity or resentment.

Yeah, right, And so like there is I was just talking to a friend where it's like, I'm so happy that there's a freedom that the younger generation has, but there's also an animosity that I didn't have that and I felt that from older queers. Sometimes we're like we're expressing ourselves and able to live off of their sacrifices. But there's so there might be a happiness, but there's also an animosity or resentment.

Resentment, yeah, because also it's like you have certain older queers I would say, I'll say sixties seventy, like maybe somebody argue fifties that I do get a little tripped up. But non binary, you know, yeah, pan sexual, Yeah, new terms, you know what I mean, Like gay, straight, you know, top bottom, you know what I mean, And that's it, and like okay, you know y'all, like you know, it's a butch femine, like it was still trapped in heter normative normative that hetero like ideal and so I think and for us the forties, some things the younger generation and can look at the Thanksgiving episode and Philip Foreign and they're sort of like coming out, what's that? Yeah, why do you have to what is coming out?

Resentment, yeah, because also it's like you have certain older queers I would say, I'll say sixties seventy, like maybe somebody argue fifties that I do get a little tripped up. But non binary, you know, yeah, pan sexual, Yeah, new terms, you know what I mean, Like gay, straight, you know, top bottom, you know what I mean, And that's it, and like okay, you know y'all, like you know, it's a butch femine, like it was still trapped in heter normative normative that hetero like ideal and so I think and for us the forties, some things the younger generation and can look at the Thanksgiving episode and Philip Foreign and they're sort of like coming out, what's that? Yeah, why do you have to what is coming out?

Yes?

Yes?

You know and so and for me we're like, oh, that's all right. Path she's a big deal. You tell your mom and you're gay, and they're like, well, my mom knew I was gay since I was six, and our things like, well I was very visibly queer my whole life, but my mother did not, but she was registered that as queer. So I still had to say hey, you know, and that's why I made light of it. And Thanksgiving episode because of like how I dressed all the time, how I like expressed myself. And still there's this like what.

You know and so and for me we're like, oh, that's all right. Path she's a big deal. You tell your mom and you're gay, and they're like, well, my mom knew I was gay since I was six, and our things like, well I was very visibly queer my whole life, but my mother did not, but she was registered that as queer. So I still had to say hey, you know, and that's why I made light of it. And Thanksgiving episode because of like how I dressed all the time, how I like expressed myself. And still there's this like what.

Do you mean you gay? You know, because I had that too.

Do you mean you gay? You know, because I had that too.

They're looking at me but not looking they're not looking at you.

They're looking at me but not looking they're not looking at you.

Yes, they're seeing you. I had that too, which like if you look at young photos of me, like it's like why did I And when I came out, my mom was like like fully flabbergasted, of course, I mean, while everybody around clocked it. Yeah, the same parent like doesn't see it doesn't see you.

Yes, they're seeing you. I had that too, which like if you look at young photos of me, like it's like why did I And when I came out, my mom was like like fully flabbergasted, of course, I mean, while everybody around clocked it. Yeah, the same parent like doesn't see it doesn't see you.

It's it's a form of not being seen.

It's it's a form of not being seen.

And then when you express yourself, this is one to one queerness and parents or queer elders in our parents, is that like, Oh, now I'm watching you express yourself and be yourself and explore a version of yourself that I didn't necessarily get to explore. Not that I wanted to be, not that the parent wants to be queer, but like the freedom, the freedoms to identify yourself, to own who you are, to be who you are, and they didn't necessarily know that they could do that, they didn't have the curiosity.

And then when you express yourself, this is one to one queerness and parents or queer elders in our parents, is that like, Oh, now I'm watching you express yourself and be yourself and explore a version of yourself that I didn't necessarily get to explore. Not that I wanted to be, not that the parent wants to be queer, but like the freedom, the freedoms to identify yourself, to own who you are, to be who you are, and they didn't necessarily know that they could do that, they didn't have the curiosity.

Right, And I think it's so interesting because everything is always changing, everything is impermanent, and I love the moment in Paris is Burning Jenny Livingston's beautiful documentary That is Our Inheritance. Dorian talks about how balls used to be feathers and headdresses and you know it was very only really only certain folks could participate. And then she says, you know, now you got all these categories. I can't stay awake for because and it's this element of like because now everyone gets to complay, right, you know, everyone gets to walk, and that in and Dorian being an elder and being someone who was at the balls in the beginning, somebody was like, somebody would know what a ball looked like if it hit him, you know, because a ball used to look different, and then it kind of shifted, and then it shifts again. And now ball culture has never gone away, but it looks somewhat different than it did when it first began. And in some ways you can either be upset about that and be frustrated, or you can lean in and embrace it.

Right, And I think it's so interesting because everything is always changing, everything is impermanent, and I love the moment in Paris is Burning Jenny Livingston's beautiful documentary That is Our Inheritance. Dorian talks about how balls used to be feathers and headdresses and you know it was very only really only certain folks could participate. And then she says, you know, now you got all these categories. I can't stay awake for because and it's this element of like because now everyone gets to complay, right, you know, everyone gets to walk, and that in and Dorian being an elder and being someone who was at the balls in the beginning, somebody was like, somebody would know what a ball looked like if it hit him, you know, because a ball used to look different, and then it kind of shifted, and then it shifts again. And now ball culture has never gone away, but it looks somewhat different than it did when it first began. And in some ways you can either be upset about that and be frustrated, or you can lean in and embrace it.

I think that that's such a and that's such a choice, right because I feel like if you're not conscious, you become resentful and angry, and that you have to make a choice to say. My friend just said this to me. It's an Octavia Butler quote. God has changed, right, just like if you will. And when we talk about God here, for me, God is black, transform but like God, energy, universe, whatever it is for you. But the understanding that change is divine absolutely, And so when you see a shift, even if it's an opportunity you didn't have, I think being inspired for it to liberate you wherever you are in that moment, as opposed to wishing you had their their version of literation.

I think that that's such a and that's such a choice, right because I feel like if you're not conscious, you become resentful and angry, and that you have to make a choice to say. My friend just said this to me. It's an Octavia Butler quote. God has changed, right, just like if you will. And when we talk about God here, for me, God is black, transform but like God, energy, universe, whatever it is for you. But the understanding that change is divine absolutely, And so when you see a shift, even if it's an opportunity you didn't have, I think being inspired for it to liberate you wherever you are in that moment, as opposed to wishing you had their their version of literation.

I mean it's it's a play on make America great again. Yeah, you know, was saying, what is this, like what hold on? This is going right there? Like let's go back? No, no, but but it's almost like you can feel that that resistance to change.

I mean it's it's a play on make America great again. Yeah, you know, was saying, what is this, like what hold on? This is going right there? Like let's go back? No, no, but but it's almost like you can feel that that resistance to change.

Yes, And the.

Yes, And the.

Thing is is like that is that is going against the law of nature. It's almost saying west summer comes to an end. It's as if no, I don't want the leaves to fall.

Thing is is like that is that is going against the law of nature. It's almost saying west summer comes to an end. It's as if no, I don't want the leaves to fall.

Yeah, I still warm.

Yeah, I still warm.

And what what nature reminds us of is that queerness is everywhere and nothing is permanent.

And what what nature reminds us of is that queerness is everywhere and nothing is permanent.

Yeah. How do you, I think, begin to make peace with that? Because I think, you know, people listening or to this podcast particularly want to find that change or want to be open to change in liberation. Everyone's in their their particular part in their journey. But for those who are at the beginning of their healing journey or at the beginning of their you know, liberation journey, how do you get comfortable with the idea of change when most of you're also depending where you are, like if your forties fifties doing this, like you've had a certain way of living a certain system that's been stuck, and how do you break open so that you get comfortable with change? Because change is uncomfortable, absolutely, you know, So how do you get how do you start to make it feel softer or more.

Yeah. How do you, I think, begin to make peace with that? Because I think, you know, people listening or to this podcast particularly want to find that change or want to be open to change in liberation. Everyone's in their their particular part in their journey. But for those who are at the beginning of their healing journey or at the beginning of their you know, liberation journey, how do you get comfortable with the idea of change when most of you're also depending where you are, like if your forties fifties doing this, like you've had a certain way of living a certain system that's been stuck, and how do you break open so that you get comfortable with change? Because change is uncomfortable, absolutely, you know, So how do you get how do you start to make it feel softer or more.

Comfortable or you know, it's so interesting situtorian way of looking at it? You know, how do I feel better about? That's not fun? And I think for me, I really try to practice the word acceptance, and I think there's something about that I try to live by is that we must accept the reality as it is, not as we wish it to be. Because the first step to battling alcoholism is acknowledging the fact that you're an alcoholic, so I think, and then once you acknowledge it, once you face it, then you can bear it and then maybe you can change it. And so I think ultimately, once you name it. So I think it's not about I think it's about not necessarily looking for comfort, because if that's what you want, then you're going to be disappointed. So I think the hope is to know that the is to observe, be aware and accept the discomfort and know that it is impermanent. And some people may say walk through it. I would say, sit in it.

Comfortable or you know, it's so interesting situtorian way of looking at it? You know, how do I feel better about? That's not fun? And I think for me, I really try to practice the word acceptance, and I think there's something about that I try to live by is that we must accept the reality as it is, not as we wish it to be. Because the first step to battling alcoholism is acknowledging the fact that you're an alcoholic, so I think, and then once you acknowledge it, once you face it, then you can bear it and then maybe you can change it. And so I think ultimately, once you name it. So I think it's not about I think it's about not necessarily looking for comfort, because if that's what you want, then you're going to be disappointed. So I think the hope is to know that the is to observe, be aware and accept the discomfort and know that it is impermanent. And some people may say walk through it. I would say, sit in it.

That's very different. Yeah, it's a very different way to sit.

That's very different. Yeah, it's a very different way to sit.

Yes, I'd rather you sit in it and let the hurt, the pain, the sadness, the feeling of failure wash over you and and wear it like a blanket. But do not I try to be there forever and remember that what you're feeling is not forever. Yeah, And eventually, once you embrace it and you sit in and you own it for however long that you need to, you will find eventually, just like the seasons, there will be a shift and things will start to change bloom, and then you'll then be able to pick it up and walk.

Yes, I'd rather you sit in it and let the hurt, the pain, the sadness, the feeling of failure wash over you and and wear it like a blanket. But do not I try to be there forever and remember that what you're feeling is not forever. Yeah, And eventually, once you embrace it and you sit in and you own it for however long that you need to, you will find eventually, just like the seasons, there will be a shift and things will start to change bloom, and then you'll then be able to pick it up and walk.

I was in therapy yesterday and we were talking about a relationship and my therapist was clocking that I was judging how I was feeling because there's you know, I would say, I'm a recovering perfectionist, and so there's a desire for it to how do I do this right? How do I grieve this thing correctly?

I was in therapy yesterday and we were talking about a relationship and my therapist was clocking that I was judging how I was feeling because there's you know, I would say, I'm a recovering perfectionist, and so there's a desire for it to how do I do this right? How do I grieve this thing correctly?

You know, which is like define right literally define correctly?

You know, which is like define right literally define correctly?

Yes, what is that? And so her advice was to sit in the gray, to not know. And I always talk about that, asking questions and not knowing in such a beautiful space, but taking my own advice or you know, taking my therapist's advice of like sitting in the thing and just letting the feelings be what they are without them needing to be something else right, without it, without you needing to put your stamp and what the change is, right, just kind of let the change take place and knowing that certain points of that change will suck, just like it's gonna fucking suck. And I guess the best thing you can do when it sucks is know who your resources are or what your resources are, not necessarily to make it softer, but to not feel alone.

Yes, what is that? And so her advice was to sit in the gray, to not know. And I always talk about that, asking questions and not knowing in such a beautiful space, but taking my own advice or you know, taking my therapist's advice of like sitting in the thing and just letting the feelings be what they are without them needing to be something else right, without it, without you needing to put your stamp and what the change is, right, just kind of let the change take place and knowing that certain points of that change will suck, just like it's gonna fucking suck. And I guess the best thing you can do when it sucks is know who your resources are or what your resources are, not necessarily to make it softer, but to not feel alone.

Right, And also I would say to not necessarily look for the lesson per se, Yeah, but just allow it to teach you something about yourself, but not say what am I supposed to get from this? Yeah?

Right, And also I would say to not necessarily look for the lesson per se, Yeah, but just allow it to teach you something about yourself, but not say what am I supposed to get from this? Yeah?

That I feel like that what am I supposed to get from this is something we do to fix to control. And it's like the lesson will come, it's not going today.

That I feel like that what am I supposed to get from this is something we do to fix to control. And it's like the lesson will come, it's not going today.

I'm not gonna make you feel bad, literally, like what we are supposed to break your patterns? That's really and then you have to look at the pattern itself. And then to me, you get your patterns from your parents. Yes, so it forces you to look at your parents. And I think also, which is also a generational thing. I think we are Yes, you don't want to make sweeping statements. I mean, we happen to be in our forties and we look at our parents a certain way. We're also queer identifying, so there's also a different relationship between oftentimes queer folks and their parents more often than not. But I think there's an idea of people have been taught that's why. But this in beauty is that the children of the other generations say, we are supposed to honor thy mother and thy father, And so that is generational. This idea that I cannot confront my parents, I am here to honor them, to say that they have done something wrong, makes me not a.

I'm not gonna make you feel bad, literally, like what we are supposed to break your patterns? That's really and then you have to look at the pattern itself. And then to me, you get your patterns from your parents. Yes, so it forces you to look at your parents. And I think also, which is also a generational thing. I think we are Yes, you don't want to make sweeping statements. I mean, we happen to be in our forties and we look at our parents a certain way. We're also queer identifying, so there's also a different relationship between oftentimes queer folks and their parents more often than not. But I think there's an idea of people have been taught that's why. But this in beauty is that the children of the other generations say, we are supposed to honor thy mother and thy father, And so that is generational. This idea that I cannot confront my parents, I am here to honor them, to say that they have done something wrong, makes me not a.

Good child, disrespectful.

Good child, disrespectful.

Yeah, And so what happens is we wind up in these patterns we can't break from because we can't confront.

Yeah, And so what happens is we wind up in these patterns we can't break from because we can't confront.

The source, we can't seek the truth, we can't.

The source, we can't seek the truth, we can't.

Speak the truth. And if you can say to your parent, hey, I didn't get the right nurturance from you. It's not your fault, but I just want to say that out loud, so we can just at least confront it. And I don't even know if it's like because because I think some people look into their parents to give them answers. And the thing is, I can't look to the parent for answers, but rather to look to them to say, you are my source, and there were some things I didn't get from you, to no fault of your own, and it's because of that I'm now looking for those things in ways that aren't healthy for me, and I want to stop doing that. And I think the best way for me to do that is just to say it out loud, is to say the thing to you so that you know whether it's for their own knowledge, but it's also for your own liberation, right, And so I think people kind of get the word like forgiveness and fault, and you know parents saying Okay, well I'm sorry, let's be okay. Now, it's really not about that, But it's really it's more about I just want to call it what it is so that way I can be more aware in my life moving forward.

Speak the truth. And if you can say to your parent, hey, I didn't get the right nurturance from you. It's not your fault, but I just want to say that out loud, so we can just at least confront it. And I don't even know if it's like because because I think some people look into their parents to give them answers. And the thing is, I can't look to the parent for answers, but rather to look to them to say, you are my source, and there were some things I didn't get from you, to no fault of your own, and it's because of that I'm now looking for those things in ways that aren't healthy for me, and I want to stop doing that. And I think the best way for me to do that is just to say it out loud, is to say the thing to you so that you know whether it's for their own knowledge, but it's also for your own liberation, right, And so I think people kind of get the word like forgiveness and fault, and you know parents saying Okay, well I'm sorry, let's be okay. Now, it's really not about that, But it's really it's more about I just want to call it what it is so that way I can be more aware in my life moving forward.

I'm thinking about when you said that, I'm thinking about, like the conversations I've had with my mother over the last fifteen years of estrangement, a couple conversations or text messages and thinking about what I wish you, how I wish you would have responded when I brought up the ways in which I was hurt, because what I only all I ever received back was kind of like, I'm sorry if I hurt you, which always is not an apology, not an apology or just like very surface but never able to own the thing. And so I think thinking if you're a parent listening and a child has confronted you, like, what is the what is the best way to respond? I think it's easy for us to get defense when a person says this thing hurt me. But I think if a person is saying this thing hurts me, it's because they love you and they want to be in relationship with you. And this is this this honesty allows you to have a true relationship to see each other. And so is there a way for a parent to like and this is about anything for us to lay our ego down, or how do we lay our ego down and say I see you and I hear you, and I will atone for this or you know that wasn't my intention, but I understand it's the impact and how can I What do you need from me? I think that's what I always wish my mother would say. I hear you, I understand, I apologize. Now what do you need from me to make this better? To me would be the because you know you can't go back.

I'm thinking about when you said that, I'm thinking about, like the conversations I've had with my mother over the last fifteen years of estrangement, a couple conversations or text messages and thinking about what I wish you, how I wish you would have responded when I brought up the ways in which I was hurt, because what I only all I ever received back was kind of like, I'm sorry if I hurt you, which always is not an apology, not an apology or just like very surface but never able to own the thing. And so I think thinking if you're a parent listening and a child has confronted you, like, what is the what is the best way to respond? I think it's easy for us to get defense when a person says this thing hurt me. But I think if a person is saying this thing hurts me, it's because they love you and they want to be in relationship with you. And this is this this honesty allows you to have a true relationship to see each other. And so is there a way for a parent to like and this is about anything for us to lay our ego down, or how do we lay our ego down and say I see you and I hear you, and I will atone for this or you know that wasn't my intention, but I understand it's the impact and how can I What do you need from me? I think that's what I always wish my mother would say. I hear you, I understand, I apologize. Now what do you need from me to make this better? To me would be the because you know you can't go back.

No past is gone, the past doesn't exist.

No past is gone, the past doesn't exist.

But there is, but there is a possibility for a future. But I think sometimes we cut ourselves off from the future because if you go.

But there is, but there is a possibility for a future. But I think sometimes we cut ourselves off from the future because if you go.

Well, also out of fear, because what in essence, I think a parent say, maybe I don't want to say, should, but I think if they are willing to do, is to confront their own parent. It's about your mother looking at her childhood and asking from that matriarch that toughness, that lack of warmth, that lack of nurturance, that all speaks to how she parented you. And your mother's generation has been told that their parents can do no wrong, that their parents cannot be flawed, that their parents cannot be people. So the fact that we are confronting our parents and saying, hey, I didn't get this from you, or this didn't work for me, Therefore I no longer want to be in community with you. For them it's foreign because they're like, well, I didn't get a lot of stuff from my mom, but I still showed up and it didn't matter. And what we're saying is exactly, wasn't healthy.

Well, also out of fear, because what in essence, I think a parent say, maybe I don't want to say, should, but I think if they are willing to do, is to confront their own parent. It's about your mother looking at her childhood and asking from that matriarch that toughness, that lack of warmth, that lack of nurturance, that all speaks to how she parented you. And your mother's generation has been told that their parents can do no wrong, that their parents cannot be flawed, that their parents cannot be people. So the fact that we are confronting our parents and saying, hey, I didn't get this from you, or this didn't work for me, Therefore I no longer want to be in community with you. For them it's foreign because they're like, well, I didn't get a lot of stuff from my mom, but I still showed up and it didn't matter. And what we're saying is exactly, wasn't healthy.

I wasn't healthy. Just because it happened doesn't mean we should continue the cycle exactly. It worked, exactly, and that there is a way to confront for our parents, to confront their parents, even if they like, my grandmother's here, my grandma's no longer hear either.

I wasn't healthy. Just because it happened doesn't mean we should continue the cycle exactly. It worked, exactly, and that there is a way to confront for our parents, to confront their parents, even if they like, my grandmother's here, my grandma's no longer hear either.

Yeah, but like I, which really makes it hard for them to kind of go back. And because that's the other thing people made, like my father is no longer earthside I suddenly when I was fourteen, and there may be still things that I need to work through with him that I can work through even though he is not here. Yes, And I think that that is something that we have to understand, is that even though a parent isn't here to be in conversation with you, that doesn't matter. Because what my therapist is really good about is saying, don't go to someone needing a response for you to heal.

Yeah, but like I, which really makes it hard for them to kind of go back. And because that's the other thing people made, like my father is no longer earthside I suddenly when I was fourteen, and there may be still things that I need to work through with him that I can work through even though he is not here. Yes, And I think that that is something that we have to understand, is that even though a parent isn't here to be in conversation with you, that doesn't matter. Because what my therapist is really good about is saying, don't go to someone needing a response for you to heal.

Oh, yeah, because your healing is based on their response and their response, Yeah, you are at their mercy, You're fucked. Yeah, and that was really big.