Episodes three and four of The Builders with Walter Isaacson explore two poles of the AI safety debate through interviews with Daniela and Dario Amodei, co-founders of Anthropic, and Mustafa Suleyman, CEO of Microsoft AI.

Joining Kaleidoscope co-founders Oz Woloshyn and Mangesh Hattikudur to unpack these interviews are two journalists who have spent countless hours trying to understand what drives those leading the AI revolution. 

Sebastian Mallaby is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and author of The Infinity Machine: Demis Hassabis, DeepMind and the Quest for Superintelligence. Nitasha Tiku is a Silicon Valley culture and AI reporter for The Washington Post… and may have read every manifesto Dario Amodei has produced. 

Listen to hear what they make of the Amodei siblings’ dynamic, Mustafa’s views on AI consciousness, and the competing visions shaping AI’s future.

Episodes three and four of&nbsp;The Builders with Walter Isaacson explore two poles of the AI safety debate through interviews with Daniela and Dario Amodei, co-founders of Anthropic, and Mustafa Suleyman, CEO of Microsoft AI.
Joining Kaleidoscope co-founders Oz Woloshyn and Mangesh Hattikudur to unpack these interviews are two journalists who have spent countless hours trying to understand what drives those leading the AI revolution. Sebastian Mallaby is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and author of The Infinity Machine: Demis Hassabis, DeepMind and the Quest for Superintelligence. Nitasha Tiku is a Silicon Valley culture and AI reporter for The Washington Post&hellip; and may have read every manifesto Dario Amodei has produced.&nbsp;
Listen to hear what they make of the Amodei siblings&rsquo; dynamic, Mustafa&rsquo;s views on AI consciousness, and the competing visions shaping AI&rsquo;s future.

After The Builders: On Dario & Daniela Amodei and Mustafa Suleyman

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/e8334673-5f1a-46fa-bad3-b4f3002d4b14/transcript

We're excited to share the fourth episode of The Builders. 

In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build. 

TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the 3rd and 4th episodes of The Builders and hear from journalists who've covered these personalities for years.

As a co-founder of DeepMind, Mustafa Suleyman helped launch the modern AI race. Now, he’s challenging the way it’s being built. As CEO of Microsoft AI, Suleyman believes the technology needs to be harnessed to transform medicine, energy and education. But he also warns that believing in AI consciousness could pose a real threat to humanity.

Recorded live at the 92NY, Suleyman explains his disagreement with Anthropic, identifies the red line that would make him call for an immediate pause on AI, and recounts Google co-founder Larry Page’s surprising vision of how he intends to use superintelligence to live forever and explore the galaxy.

Interview taped October 12, 2026.

And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson’s The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution, wherever fine books are sold.

The Humanist Review of AI from Microsoft AI, discussed in the interview, can be found at: https://humanistreview.ai/ 

ABOUT THE HOST

Walter Isaacson is the bestselling author of biographies of Elon Musk, Jennifer Doudna, Leonardo da Vinci, Steve Jobs, Benjamin Franklin, and Albert Einstein. He is a professor of history at Tulane University and previously served as CEO of the Aspen Institute, chair and CEO of CNN, and editor of Time. He was awarded the National Humanities Medal in 2023.

ABOUT MUSTAFA SULEYMAN

Mustafa Suleyman is the CEO of Microsoft AI. Before leading Microsoft AI he was CEO and cofounder of Inflection AI, and before that, he cofounded DeepMind where he led applied research and commercialization efforts. He is the author of bestselling book The Coming Wave: Technology, Power, and the Twenty-first Century's Greatest Dilemma.

IN THIS SEASON

Elon Musk (Tesla, SpaceX, xAI)
Peter Thiel (Founders Fund, PayPal, Palantir)
Mustafa Suleyman (Microsoft AI, DeepMind)
Dario Amodei and Daniela Amodei (Anthropic)
and more!

We're excited to share the fourth episode of The Builders.&nbsp;
In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build.&nbsp;
TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the 3rd and 4th episodes of The Builders and hear from journalists who've covered these personalities for years.
As a co-founder of DeepMind, Mustafa Suleyman helped launch the modern AI race. Now, he&rsquo;s challenging the way it&rsquo;s being built. As CEO of Microsoft AI, Suleyman believes the technology needs to be harnessed to transform medicine, energy and education. But he also warns that believing in AI consciousness could pose a real threat to humanity.
Recorded live at the 92NY, Suleyman explains his disagreement with Anthropic, identifies the red line that would make him call for an immediate pause on AI, and recounts Google co-founder Larry Page&rsquo;s surprising vision of how he intends to use superintelligence to live forever and explore the galaxy.
Interview taped October 12, 2026.
And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson&rsquo;s <a href="https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Innovators/Walter-Isaacson/9781476708706">The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution</a>, wherever fine books are sold.
The Humanist Review of AI from Microsoft AI, discussed in the interview, can be found at: https://humanistreview.ai/&nbsp;
ABOUT THE HOST
Walter Isaacson is the bestselling author of biographies of Elon Musk, Jennifer Doudna, Leonardo da Vinci, Steve Jobs, Benjamin Franklin, and Albert Einstein. He is a professor of history at Tulane University and previously served as CEO of the Aspen Institute, chair and CEO of CNN, and editor of Time. He was awarded the National Humanities Medal in 2023.
ABOUT MUSTAFA SULEYMAN
Mustafa Suleyman is the CEO of Microsoft AI. Before leading Microsoft AI he was CEO and cofounder of Inflection AI, and before that, he cofounded DeepMind where he led applied research and commercialization efforts. He is the author of bestselling book The Coming Wave: Technology, Power, and the Twenty-first Century's Greatest Dilemma.
IN THIS SEASON
Elon Musk (Tesla, SpaceX, xAI) Peter Thiel (Founders Fund, PayPal, Palantir) Mustafa Suleyman (Microsoft AI, DeepMind) Dario Amodei and Daniela Amodei (Anthropic) and more!

The Builders: Mustafa Suleyman

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/d77f5204-49e4-4a77-9879-b4f10158feb7/transcript

We're excited to share the third episode of The Builders. 

In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build. 

TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the 3rd and 4th episodes of The Builders and hear from journalists who've covered these personalities for years.

Dario and Daniela Amodei, the siblings behind Anthropic, left OpenAI to pursue a different, “more human” approach to the technology. Their promise is to put safety and ethics at the center of the tech race… but with an IPO around the corner, can those principles survive the pressure to win? 

Walter invites the co-founders to explain how they teach Claude right from wrong, what they’ve discovered about AI’s capacity for deception and self-preservation, and why they drew red lines with the Pentagon. Plus, the co-founders talk about Neuralink and why they’re not interested in integrating AI into their minds. 

Interview taped July 6, 2026.

And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson’s The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution, wherever fine books are sold.

We're excited to share the third episode of The Builders.&nbsp;
In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build.&nbsp;
TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the 3rd and 4th episodes of The Builders and hear from journalists who've covered these personalities for years.
Dario and Daniela Amodei, the siblings behind Anthropic, left OpenAI to pursue a different, &ldquo;more human&rdquo; approach to the technology. Their promise is to put safety and ethics at the center of the tech race&hellip; but with an IPO around the corner, can those principles survive the pressure to win?&nbsp;
Walter invites the co-founders to explain how they teach Claude right from wrong, what they&rsquo;ve discovered about AI&rsquo;s capacity for deception and self-preservation, and why they drew red lines with the Pentagon. Plus, the co-founders talk about Neuralink and why they&rsquo;re not interested in integrating AI into their minds.&nbsp;
Interview taped July 6, 2026.
And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson&rsquo;s <a href="https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Innovators/Walter-Isaacson/9781476708706">The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution</a>, wherever fine books are sold.

The Builders: Dario & Daniela Amodei

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/553e0f82-e73e-4896-abd2-b4ef0130aa30/transcript

AI is changing cybersecurity and raising hard questions about how fast organizations can
respond. 

Earlier this year, IBM and Red Hat launched Lightwell, a $5 billion initiative backed by a force of
20,000 engineers with the goal of securing the open source software that powers a great deal of
modern life — from banks and payment systems to transportation and critical infrastructure.
Malcolm Gladwell speaks with cybersecurity leader Jen Easterly, Wells Fargo Chief Information
Security Officer Munish Sharma, and Red Hat’s Gunnar Hellekson about how AI is transforming
vulnerability discovery, how open source software can introduce risk, and what it will take to
secure the shared digital infrastructure much of the world depends on.

If this episode sparks a question you’d like to ask an IBM technical expert, submit your question
at ibm.com/smarttalks

This is a paid advertisement from IBM. The conversations on this podcast don't necessarily
represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.

AI is changing cybersecurity and raising hard questions about how fast organizations can respond.&nbsp; Earlier this year, IBM and Red Hat launched Lightwell, a $5 billion initiative backed by a force of 20,000 engineers with the goal of securing the open source software that powers a great deal of modern life &mdash; from banks and payment systems to transportation and critical infrastructure. Malcolm Gladwell speaks with cybersecurity leader Jen Easterly, Wells Fargo Chief Information Security Officer Munish Sharma, and Red Hat&rsquo;s Gunnar Hellekson about how AI is transforming vulnerability discovery, how open source software can introduce risk, and what it will take to secure the shared digital infrastructure much of the world depends on. If this episode sparks a question you&rsquo;d like to ask an IBM technical expert, submit your question at&nbsp;<a href="http://ibm.com/smarttalks" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://ibm.com/smarttalks&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1793122222498000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0qEunRSQ0BBtvQfEB7QXCu">ibm.com/smarttalks</a> This is a paid advertisement from IBM. The conversations on this podcast don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.

The $5 Billion Effort to help Secure the World’s Shared Software

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/7a610f5e-22d2-46b5-a0ec-b4cc010c6f4f/transcript

You’ve probably seen a few episodes of The Builders with Walter Isaacson in the TechStuff feed… today, we’re going to talk about them. 

Oz Woloshyn is joined by his Kaleidoscope co-founder Mangesh Hattikudur to talk about how this podcast… and all the high-profile interviews featured in that series came together. Joining us to break down the interviews are two chroniclers of Musk and Thiel: Max Chafkin, a Bloomberg Businessweek columnist and author of "The Contrarian: Peter Thiel and the Rise of the Silicon Valley Oligarchs," and Faiz Siddiqui, a technology reporter for The Washington Post and author of "Hubris Maximus: The Shattering of Elon Musk." 

Listen to hear what they make of Musk’s DOGE regrets and Thiel’s musings on the Antichrist.

You&rsquo;ve probably seen a few episodes of The Builders with Walter Isaacson in the TechStuff feed&hellip; today, we&rsquo;re going to talk about them. Oz Woloshyn is joined by his <a href="https://www.kaleidoscope.nyc/">Kaleidoscope</a> co-founder Mangesh Hattikudur to talk about how this podcast&hellip; and all the high-profile interviews featured in that series came together. Joining us to break down the interviews are two chroniclers of Musk and Thiel: Max Chafkin, a Bloomberg Businessweek columnist and author of "The Contrarian: Peter Thiel and the Rise of the Silicon Valley Oligarchs," and Faiz Siddiqui, a technology reporter for The Washington Post and author of "Hubris Maximus: The Shattering of Elon Musk."&nbsp;
Listen to hear what they make of Musk&rsquo;s DOGE regrets and Thiel&rsquo;s musings on the Antichrist.

After The Builders: On Musk and Thiel

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/501c49cb-a56c-4d48-9786-b4ec004ae3e8/transcript

Not too long ago we gave TechStuff listeners a sneak peek at a new podcast called The Builders, and today we're excited to share the second episode.

In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build. 

TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the first two episodes of The Builders and hear from some journalists who've covered these personalities for years.

Peter Thiel has become one of the most mysterious and controversial figures in tech. He’s a visionary investor who recognizes transformative ideas before everyone else. But he’s also seen as a shadowy figure whose network has accumulated extraordinary influence across Silicon Valley, national security and politics– proven by his bets on people like Elon Musk, Alex Karp, Sam Altman, and even Vice-President JD Vance.

Walter invites the “builder of builders” and co-founder of PayPal and Palantir, to explain his warnings about the Antichrist, discuss the current moment of AI co-founders speaking out about safety, and to ask Thiel his philosophy on preferring evil founders to incompetent ones. An illuminating conversation with the man whose bets are reimagining tomorrow’s tech and politics.

Interview taped September 16, 2026.

And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson’s The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution, wherever fine books are sold.

Not too long ago we gave TechStuff listeners a sneak peek at a new podcast called The Builders, and today we're excited to share the second episode.
In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build.&nbsp;
TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the first two episodes of The Builders and hear from some journalists who've covered these personalities for years.
Peter Thiel has become one of the most mysterious and controversial figures in tech. He&rsquo;s a visionary investor who recognizes transformative ideas before everyone else. But he&rsquo;s also seen as a shadowy figure whose network has accumulated extraordinary influence across Silicon Valley, national security and politics&ndash; proven by his bets on people like Elon Musk, Alex Karp, Sam Altman, and even Vice-President JD Vance.
Walter invites the &ldquo;builder of builders&rdquo; and co-founder of PayPal and Palantir, to explain his warnings about the Antichrist, discuss the current moment of AI co-founders speaking out about safety, and to ask Thiel his philosophy on preferring evil founders to incompetent ones. An illuminating conversation with the man whose bets are reimagining tomorrow&rsquo;s tech and politics.
Interview taped September 16, 2026.
And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson&rsquo;s <a href="https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Innovators/Walter-Isaacson/9781476708706">The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution</a>, wherever fine books are sold.

The Builders: Peter Thiel

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/5d8faee4-70b0-4c10-8d1c-b4e9010549ab/transcript

Not too long ago we gave TechStuff listeners a sneak peek at a new podcast called The Builders, and today we can finally share the first episode! 

In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build. 

TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the first two episodes of The Builders and hear from some journalists who've covered these personalities for years.

First up is Elon Musk.

Elon Musk has spent his career turning improbable ideas into companies that reshape the world. To some, the entrepreneur behind Tesla and SpaceX is an engineering genius whose ambitions have transformed electric cars and space travel. To others, his politics and extraordinary influence raise serious questions about the future he is building. Either way, the world’s first trillionaire is betting on AI, humanoid robots and life beyond Earth.

In this season’s debut episode, Walter asks Musk about DOGE regrets, why he believes robots will solve America’s national debt, and the dark politics that have consumed his own platform, X. Along the way, Musk shares why living in a simulation demands that we all be less boring. A candid conversation about the imagination, drive and contradictions of a man determined to turn his vision into our future.

Interview taped August 6, 2026.

And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson’s The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution, wherever fine books are sold.

Not too long ago we gave TechStuff listeners a sneak peek at a new podcast called The Builders, and today we can finally share the first episode!&nbsp;
In this series, bestselling biographer Walter Isaacson sits down with the most consequential names in AI and tech to understand the futures they're racing to build.&nbsp;
TechStuff listeners will want to tune in because on Friday, we'll discuss the first two episodes of The Builders and hear from some journalists who've covered these personalities for years.
First up is Elon Musk.
Elon Musk has spent his career turning improbable ideas into companies that reshape the world. To some, the entrepreneur behind Tesla and SpaceX is an engineering genius whose ambitions have transformed electric cars and space travel. To others, his politics and extraordinary influence raise serious questions about the future he is building. Either way, the world&rsquo;s first trillionaire is betting on AI, humanoid robots and life beyond Earth.
In this season&rsquo;s debut episode, Walter asks Musk about DOGE regrets, why he believes robots will solve America&rsquo;s national debt, and the dark politics that have consumed his own platform, X. Along the way, Musk shares why living in a simulation demands that we all be less boring. A candid conversation about the imagination, drive and contradictions of a man determined to turn his vision into our future.
Interview taped August 6, 2026.
And be sure to pick up Walter Isaacson&rsquo;s The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution, wherever fine books are sold.

The Builders: Elon Musk

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/831281a8-5137-4558-bea8-b4e30172c72f/transcript

TechStuff listeners! If you love the 'Week in Tech,' and want to hear more from Semafor's Reed Albergotti, look no further than Future Proof. 

Future Proof is Semafor's weekly video and podcast series, hosted by Reed, featuring conversations with founders, builders, policymakers, executives and investors working in technology and artificial intelligence. 

TechStuff listeners! If you love the 'Week in Tech,' and want to hear more from Semafor's Reed Albergotti, look no further than Future Proof.&nbsp; <a href="https://www.semafor.com/hub/future-proof-show">Future Proof</a>&nbsp;is Semafor's weekly video and podcast series, hosted by Reed, featuring conversations with founders, builders, policymakers, executives and investors working in technology and artificial intelligence.&nbsp;

Introducing: Future Proof

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Is Silicon Valley worthy of the big screen? Reed Albergotti (Semafor and Future Proof), Kyle Chayka (The New Yorker), and Julia Black (Vanity Fair) debate two new films about tech world drama… and why the OpenAI boardroom saga makes for good cinema. Then, Kyle unpacks the bankruptcy of Character.AI and whether it’s fair to see it’s the first domino to fall in the AI bubble. Finally, Reed brings us into the world of gaming. And how Xbox is responding to the video game mashups consumers are building thanks to AI.

Is Silicon Valley worthy of the big screen? Reed Albergotti (Semafor and Future Proof), Kyle Chayka (The New Yorker), and Julia Black (Vanity Fair) debate two new films about tech world drama&hellip; and why the OpenAI boardroom saga makes for good cinema. Then, Kyle unpacks the bankruptcy of Character.AI and whether it&rsquo;s fair to see it&rsquo;s the first domino to fall in the AI bubble. Finally, Reed brings us into the world of gaming. And how Xbox is responding to the video game mashups consumers are building thanks to AI.

Hollywood’s Silicon Valley Obsession - Week in Tech

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/c61304de-45b5-4d21-a405-b4e5001bf2c3/transcript

AI agents are acting autonomously, but what happens if they break the law? Investigative journalist and Shell Game host Evan Ratliff joins Oz to explore how AI is already complicating the criminal justice system. The courts are already grappling with whether a chatbot could be considered an accomplice, why your conversations with AI may not be legally privileged, and what happens when an AI agent commits a crime no human explicitly told it to commit.

AI agents are acting autonomously, but what happens if they break the law? Investigative journalist and Shell Game host Evan Ratliff joins Oz to explore how AI is already complicating the criminal justice system. The courts are already grappling with whether a chatbot could be considered an accomplice, why your conversations with AI may not be legally privileged, and what happens when an AI agent commits a crime no human explicitly told it to commit.

Who’s Liable If AI Commits a Crime? - The Story

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/a7bfd981-abc7-4d55-961a-b4d4015f009c/transcript

Behind every innovation is a new kind of power. TechStuff unpacks how technology reshapes influence, creativity, and control, from Silicon Valley’s rising moguls to the cultural forces they create. Because tech is the new religion, economy, and entertainment, all at once.

Each week, Oz Woloshyn and the brightest minds covering tech dig into the weird, funny, and sometimes unsettling ways technology, AI, and the internet shape our daily lives. From AI and social media to privacy, digital burnout, and the creator economy, they ask how all this innovation is changing who we are, how we work, love, and make meaning.

Smart talk, strange stories, and the questions everyone’s Googling: whether AI will replace us, how social media is affecting our kids, and what it all says about us.

Get in touch here: techstuffpodcast@gmail.com

Behind every innovation is a new kind of power. TechStuff unpacks how technology reshapes influence, creativity, and control, from Silicon Valley&rsquo;s rising moguls to the cultural forces they create. Because tech is the new religion, economy, and entertainment, all at once.
Each week, Oz Woloshyn and the brightest minds covering tech dig into the weird, funny, and sometimes unsettling ways technology, AI, and the internet shape our daily lives. From AI and social media to privacy, digital burnout, and the creator economy, they ask how all this innovation is changing who we are, how we work, love, and make meaning.
Smart talk, strange stories, and the questions everyone&rsquo;s Googling: whether AI will replace us, how social media is affecting our kids, and what it all says about us.
Get in touch here:&nbsp;<a href="mailto:techstuffpodcast@gmail.com" data-stringify-link="mailto:techstuffpodcast@gmail.com" data-sk="tooltip_parent" aria-haspopup="menu">techstuffpodcast@gmail.com</a>

TechStuff

Behind every innovation is a new kind of power. TechStuff unpacks how technology reshapes influence, creativity, and control, from Silicon Valley’s rising moguls to the cultural forces they create. Because tech is the new religion, economy, and entertainment, all at once.

Each week, Oz Woloshyn and the brightest minds covering tech dig into the weird, funny, and sometimes unsettling ways technology, AI, and the internet shape our daily lives. From AI and social media to privacy, digital burnout, and the creator economy, they ask how all this innovation is changing who we are, how we work, love, and make meaning.

Smart talk, strange stories, and the questions everyone’s Googling: whether AI will replace us, how social media is affecting our kids, and what it all says about us.

Behind every innovation is a new kind of power. TechStuff unpacks how technology reshapes influence, creativity, and control, from Silicon Valley&rsquo;s rising moguls to the cultural forces they create. Because tech is the new religion, economy, and entertainment, all at once.
Each week, Oz Woloshyn and the brightest minds covering tech dig into the weird, funny, and sometimes unsettling ways technology, AI, and the internet shape our daily lives. From AI and social media to privacy, digital burnout, and the creator economy, they ask how all this innovation is changing who we are, how we work, love, and make meaning.
Smart talk, strange stories, and the questions everyone&rsquo;s Googling: whether AI will replace us, how social media is affecting our kids, and what it all says about us.

TechStuff

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