In this episode of Talking About Marketing, Steve Davis and David Olney delve into the power of communication, the efficiency of the 80/20 Principle, the pitfalls of relying on AI-generated content, and the allure of doom narratives.

The Person segment explores the foundational aspects of effective communication, drawing insights from Steve’s recent talk at the Visitor Information Services conference.

In the Principles segment, they discuss Richard Koch’s "The 80/20 Principle," highlighting how focusing on high-impact activities can significantly improve productivity and satisfaction.

The Problems segment recounts Steve's experience with Perplexity AI, emphasising the importance of human oversight when using AI tools.

Lastly, in the Perspicacity segment, they examine the fascination with doomsday predictions and the potential of a more hopeful narrative, inspired by Hannah Ritchie’s "Not the End of the World."

Get ready to take notes!

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:10 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
The Art Of Engaging Communication

In this segment, Steve Davis shares insights from his recent talk at the South Australian Visitor Information Services conference, focusing on the importance of effective communication in tourism. He discusses the valuable lessons derived from two influential books: "Change Your Questions, Change Your Life" by Dr. Marilee Adams and "Supercommunicators" by Charles Duhigg. These works emphasise the need for presence, warmth, and genuine engagement when interacting with visitors.

Steve underscores the foundational aspect of communication: listening. He asserts that individuals with a naturally warm heart and curiosity are indispensable in the tourism industry. These innate qualities cannot be fabricated; therefore, hiring people with such cultural qualities and training them in the necessary skills is crucial.

To illustrate his points at the conference, Steve read a letter written by the late author Kurt Vonnegut to high school students in 2006. In this episode, we play a wonderful reading by Sir Ian McKellen from the highly recommended YouTube channel, Letters Live.

Vonnegut's letter encourages the practice of art in various forms—not for fame or money, but for personal growth and soul enrichment. This advice is particularly relevant for individuals in the tourism sector, as engaging in creative activities fosters a positive disposition and an eagerness to help others.

David Olney adds that a person with a good disposition, who enjoys being happy, can learn almost anything. Conversely, someone mired in misery cannot be taught to smile. He reflects on the transformative power of art, suggesting that creative pursuits teach a "quiet, happy courage" that makes the future seem less daunting.

Steve concludes by highlighting the contrast between a creatively engaged person and one who views their job as a chore. The former will always strive to make interactions enjoyable and solve problems enthusiastically. This segment serves as a reminder that creativity and a positive attitude are essential for enhancing customer experiences and overall job satisfaction.

In post production, we also slipped in a magic scene from Back To School, in which the late Kurt Vonnegut made a cameo appearance.

11:13 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
Embracing the 80/20 Principle for Maximum Impact

In the Principles segment, Steve Davis and David Olney explore "The 80/20 Principle" by Richard Koch, a book that delves into the Pareto Principle, originally observed by Italian economist Vilfredo Pareto in 1896. This principle posits that 20 percent of efforts typically yield 80 percent of results, while the remaining 80 percent of efforts contribute to just 20 percent of outcomes. Pareto's observations extended beyond economics to reveal a universal pattern of disproportionality in various aspects of life and nature.

Steve highlights how Koch’s book emphasises the importance of identifying and focusing on the most impactful activities. For small business owners, this means recognising that a significant portion of their efforts may yield minimal results, and instead, they should concentrate on the tasks that generate the most benefits. Koch advises outsourcing or eliminating less productive activities and honing efficiency in necessary but less impactful tasks.

David reflects on his academic career, where he felt overwhelmed by unproductive tasks, and how embracing the 80/20 principle in his new career has significantly enhanced his professional satisfaction. He underscores the necessity of prioritising tasks that align with one's strengths to maximise results and free up time for personal interests and creativity.

Steve introduces an excerpt from Richard Koch, who outlines strategies for those feeling stuck in their careers. Koch suggests emulating the methods of successful individuals and reflecting on personal successes to identify activities that yield high returns. He stresses the importance of concentrating on these high-impact activities to achieve better results and avoid burnout.

The segment concludes with a discussion on the practical application of the 80/20 principle in personal and professional life. By focusing on tasks they excel at, individuals can achieve more efficient and satisfying outcomes, leading to a balanced and fulfilling life. Steve and David agree that adopting this principle is challenging but ultimately rewarding, as it allows for more effective use of time and energy, both at work and in personal pursuits.

22:10 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
Navigating AI's Flaws and Potentials

In the Problems segment, Steve Davis shares his recent experience with Perplexity AI while preparing a biography for his character, Professor Sebastian Longsword. As he was short on time, he used Perplexity AI to craft a quick introduction for an upcoming speaking engagement with the Australian Marketers Institute in South Australia. Despite the initial promising output, Steve discovered significant issues upon closer inspection of the AI-generated content and its cited sources.

Steve recounts how Perplexity AI produced a bio describing Professor Longsword as a renowned academic from Adelaide, pioneering short form MBA degrees. The bio praised his innovative teaching methods and their impact on modern MBA education. While the content was largely on-brand, Steve found the sources cited by the AI to be irrelevant and inaccurate. The references included unrelated PDFs, genealogical records, and obscure links, with no connection to the bio's content.

You can click through to the actual results page here.

Steve terms this issue "citation decoration," highlighting how AI tools can create a facade of credibility by listing sources that were neither relevant nor used in generating the summary. He further experimented with Perplexity AI's pro version, which provided slightly better results but still included many irrelevant sources. Steve stresses the importance of human oversight when using AI tools, as the presence of citations does not guarantee their accuracy or relevance.

David Olney adds that AI tools can fluctuate in performance, necessitating constant evaluation and adaptation. He advises users to remain vigilant and not hesitate to switch AI tools if the quality of outputs declines. David emphasises that brand loyalty should not apply to AI tools, especially during the current phase of rapid AI development. Users should leverage the competition among AI providers to obtain the best results.

Steve and David agree that while AI can be a powerful aid, it requires human discernment to ensure the reliability and relevance of its outputs. They encourage users to experiment with different AI tools to find the best fit for their needs, avoiding complacency with any single provider.

27:57 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
Doom Sells: The Power of Negativity and Hope

In the Perspicacity segment, Steve Davis and David Olney discuss the compelling nature of doom and its effectiveness in capturing attention. Steve opens the segment by referencing the ending of "War of the Worlds," narrated by Morgan Freeman, where the seemingly unstoppable alien invaders are ultimately defeated by bacteria. This dramatic turn of events highlights the unexpected ways in which doom can be averted.

Steve and David explore the persistent theme of doom in literature and media. David notes that each generation tends to produce a prominent work predicting the end of the world as we know it. He cites Paul Kennedy’s 1980s work on the rise and fall of empires and Richard Heinberg's "The End of Growth" from 2011, both of which garnered significant attention due to their dire predictions. These works resonate with the human tendency towards negativity bias, which makes us more responsive to negative information.

The conversation shifts to marketing, where Steve and David discuss how fear and doom can be powerful tools for grabbing attention. They mention the phenomenon of clickbait titles like "Blogging is Dead" or "Social Media is Dead," which may attract clicks but often fail to build lasting trust with the audience. David emphasises that using fear-based tactics can harm a brand’s reputation if the content does not deliver on its dramatic promises.

Steve and David then highlight a new book that offers a different approach: "Not the End of the World" by Hannah Ritchie. This book acknowledges the significant problems we face but focuses on the solutions that are already working and how they can be scaled up. Ritchie's balanced and solution-oriented perspective provides a refreshing contrast to the usual doom-laden narratives, offering hope and empowering readers to take positive action.

The segment concludes with a reflection on the importance of maintaining a constructive outlook. Steve asserts that while challenges are real, adopting a proactive and solution-focused mindset is more productive than succumbing to despair. They reference Stanley Kubrick’s films to illustrate the point that true awareness and readiness to tackle problems come from keeping one's eyes wide open to possibilities.

This segment underscores the importance of balancing awareness of problems with a focus on actionable solutions, both in personal outlook and marketing strategies.