Top 5 Marketing Books Of 2023

Top 5-ish Marketing Podcast Episodes Of 2023

In this bonus episode of "Talking About Marketing", Steve Davis and David Olney list and briefly discuss their Top 5 books of 2023 for you to consider reading as we head into 2024.

They also list the Top 5 most read marketing blogs of 2023 and the Top 7 most listened to episodes of Talking About Marketing, just in case you missed one that's proven popular with other listeners.

Have a Happy, Productive, and Thoughtful New Year!

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:03 Top 5 Books of 2023This is Steve and David's list
The Books That Affected Us The Most In 2023
The Expectation Effect by David Robson
Change Your Questions Change Your Life by Marilee Adams 4th edition
Oscar: A Life by Matthew Sturgis
You Can't Teach A Kid To Ride A Bike At A Seminar, 2nd Edition, Dave Mattson (David Sandler)
This Is Marketing by Seth Godin

David's extras
The Book of the Courtier by Baldassare Castiglione
Feeling and Knowing: Making Minds Conscious by Antonio Damasio
You Are What You Believe: Simple Steps to Transform Your Life by Hyrum W Smith

Steve's extras
The Status Game by Will Storr
Dopamine Nation: Finding Balance in the Age of Indulgence by Dr. Anna Lembke
Anna Karenina by Tolstoy, audiobook read by Maggie Gyllenhaal
Quarterly Essay: The Great Divide - Australia's Housing Mess And How To Fix It, by Alan Kohler

23:05 Top 5 Marketing Blog Articles Of 2023 These are the most read blogs on our site this year.
Top 5 Marketing Blog Posts Of 2023
How to humblebrag on LinkedIn Like A Pro (If you Want To)
3 Updated Reasons For Using Odd Numbered Lists In Your Blog Post Titles
A Marketer's Christmas Message Written With ChatGPT
Kindness In Business A Pathway To Profit And Happiness
AirBnB Does Not Want Us Staying On Eyre Peninsula This Holiday Season

26:03 Top 5-ish Marketing Podcast Episodes Of 2023 These are the episodes you listened to the most in 2023.
Top 5 Marketing Podcast Episodes Of 2023
The Road Less Stupid Talking About Marketing Apr 25, 2023
Understanding The Meganet Talking About Marketing Jun 20, 2023
Belonging To The Brand Talking About Marketing Mar 14, 2023
Finding Your Story To Tell Talking About Marketing Sep 6, 2022
Social Media And The Shareworthy Case Of Digital Fatigue Talking About Marketing Oct 3, 2023
The Slot Machine Of Human Status Talking About Marketing Oct 31, 2023
What Sunglasses Would Heroes Wear? Talking About Marketing Mar 28, 2023
Words To Make The World Do Your Bidding Talking About Marketing Dec 25, 2022

In this bonus episode of "Talking About Marketing", Steve Davis and David Olney list and briefly discuss their Top 5 books of 2023 for you to consider reading as we head into 2024.
They also list the Top 5 most read marketing blogs of 2023 and the Top 7 most listened to episodes of Talking About Marketing, just in case you missed one that's proven popular with other listeners.
Have a Happy, Productive, and Thoughtful New Year!
Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:03 Top 5 Books of 2023 This is Steve and David's list The Books That Affected Us The Most In 2023
<ol>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/3TzG1e4">The Expectation Effect</a> by David Robson</li>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/3NCftFh">Change Your Questions Change Your Life</a> by Marilee Adams 4th edition</li>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/3RSkqw9">Oscar: A Life</a> by Matthew Sturgis</li>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/3RQu5Dq">You Can't Teach A Kid To Ride A Bike At A Seminar</a>, 2nd Edition, Dave Mattson (David Sandler)</li>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/3TAPstz">This Is Marketing</a> by Seth Godin</li>
</ol>
David's extras
<ul>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/4893PcX">The Book of the Courtier</a> by Baldassare Castiglione</li>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/4aw9hIr">Feeling and Knowing: Making Minds Conscious</a> by Antonio Damasio</li>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/489hvEQ">You Are What You Believe: Simple Steps to Transform Your Life</a> by Hyrum W Smith</li>
</ul>
Steve's extras
<ul>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/487gai1">The Status Game</a> by Will Storr</li>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/4azC8f1">Dopamine Nation: Finding Balance in the Age of Indulgence</a> by Dr. Anna Lembke</li>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/3TAPMZj">Anna Karenina</a> by Tolstoy, audiobook read by Maggie Gyllenhaal</li>
<li><a href="https://amzn.to/3v6zaOZ">Quarterly Essay: The Great Divide - Australia's Housing Mess And How To Fix It</a>, by Alan Kohler</li>
</ul>
23:05 Top 5 Marketing Blog Articles Of 2023 These are the most read blogs on our site this year. Top 5 Marketing Blog Posts Of 2023
<ol>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/how-to-humblebrag-on-linkedin-like-a-pro-if-you-want-to/" data-type="post" data-id="3409">How to humblebrag on LinkedIn Like A Pro (If you Want To)</a></li>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/3-updated-reasons-for-using-odd-numbered-lists-in-your-blog-post-titles/" data-type="post" data-id="2841">3 Updated Reasons For Using Odd Numbered Lists In Your Blog Post Titles</a></li>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/a-marketers-christmas-message-written-with-chat-gpt/" data-type="post" data-id="5873">A Marketer's Christmas Message Written With ChatGPT</a></li>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/kindness-in-business-a-pathway-to-profit-and-happiness/" data-type="post" data-id="3573">Kindness In Business A Pathway To Profit And Happiness</a></li>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/airbnb-does-not-want-us-staying-on-eyre-peninsula-this-holiday-season/" data-type="post" data-id="6343">AirBnB Does Not Want Us Staying On Eyre Peninsula This Holiday Season</a></li>
</ol>
26:03 Top 5-ish Marketing Podcast Episodes Of 2023 These are the episodes you listened to the most in 2023. Top 5 Marketing Podcast Episodes Of 2023
<ol>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/s02e05-the-road-less-stupid/" data-type="post" data-id="5986">The Road Less Stupid</a> Talking About Marketing Apr 25, 2023</li>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/s02e09-understanding-the-meganet/" data-type="post" data-id="6066">Understanding The Meganet</a> Talking About Marketing Jun 20, 2023</li>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/s02e02-belonging-to-the-brand/" data-type="post" data-id="5955">Belonging To The Brand</a> Talking About Marketing Mar 14, 2023</li>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/s01e01-finding-your-story-to-tell/" data-type="post" data-id="5270">Finding Your Story To Tell</a> Talking About Marketing Sep 6, 2022</li>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/s03e05-social-media-and-the-shareworthy-case-of-digital-fatigue/" data-type="post" data-id="6237">Social Media And The Shareworthy Case Of Digital Fatigue</a> Talking About Marketing Oct 3, 2023</li>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/s03e07-the-slot-machine-of-human-status/" data-type="post" data-id="6328">The Slot Machine Of Human Status</a> Talking About Marketing Oct 31, 2023</li>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/s02e03-which-sunglasses-would-heroes-wear/" data-type="post" data-id="5976">What Sunglasses Would Heroes Wear?</a> Talking About Marketing Mar 28, 2023</li>
<li><a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/s01e09-words-to-make-the-world-do-your-bidding/" data-type="post" data-id="5610">Words To Make The World Do Your Bidding</a> Talking About Marketing Dec 25, 2022</li>
</ol>

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.

Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde
Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde
Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde
Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde

Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.

We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about...

Talking About Marketing

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.

Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde
Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde
Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde
Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde

Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.

We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

<a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/podcast/">Talking About Marketing</a> is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.
Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
<ol>
<li>Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde</li>
</ol>
Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.
We welcome your comments and feedback via <a href="mailto:podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com">podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com</a>

Looking to set up the New Year of 2024 with some new thinking or new habits? David Olney and Steve Davis share the books that affected them the most over the past 12 months.

BONUS The 2024 Summer Reading List For Business Owners And Leaders

Person

Principles

Problems

Perspicacity

Welcome to this episode of Talking About Marketing, where we’re diving into some deep and sometimes challenging themes.

First, in the Person segment, we find wisdom in Dostoevsky’s enduring quotes, unpacking how his views on self-awareness and authenticity resonate in our modern, often superficial world.

Next, in the Principles segment, we explore Hope for Cynics by Jamil Zaki, a book that navigates the line between cynicism and trust, with takeaways on how small businesses can maintain genuine connections in an increasingly sceptical society.

Moving into Problems, we tackle the trend of using AI to generate engagement on LinkedIn, questioning whether superficial comments truly foster meaningful relationships or if they’re diluting the platform’s value.

Finally, in Perspicacity, we review Fiverr’s new ad campaign that boldly claims “nobody cares” if you use AI, so long as the end result delivers—raising the question of whether transparency or results really matter most in the age of AI.

Get ready to take notes!

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:15 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
Dostoevsky on Truth and Self-Understanding

In this episode's Person segment, Steve and David delve into the philosophy of Fyodor Dostoevsky, exploring some of his most powerful quotes and their relevance to both personal growth and business. From insights on self-deception to the courage required for truth-telling, they reflect on Dostoevsky’s gritty observations and how they apply in today’s world, particularly for small business owners. Steve recounts his own experiences as a theatre critic, where speaking the truth can feel more challenging—and necessary—than offering easy flattery.

The conversation deepens as they discuss Dostoevsky’s assertion that many betray themselves for nothing, often due to fear or cowardice. David and Steve relate this theme to the world of small business, encouraging entrepreneurs to push through self-doubt and put their ideas out into the world, even if it feels vulnerable. They further explore the existential need to create meaning, both in life and in business, emphasizing that a lack of purpose can lead to a trapped, cynical mindset—a struggle Dostoevsky understood deeply.

Dostoevsky’s musings about unseen prisons resonate with Steve and David’s discussion of modern technology, likening smartphones to "ankle bracelets" that keep us tethered to distractions and conformity. They observe how social media encourages surface-level thinking, deterring thoughtful expression and reinforcing a fearful, mob-driven culture. As they dissect these ideas, they advocate for a conscious approach to technology, urging listeners to resist the allure of passive consumption and embrace the challenge of carving out a meaningful, self-directed path.

13:45 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
Overcoming Cynicism in Business and Life: A New Hope for Marketing

In this Principles segment, Steve and David explore insights from Hope for Cynics by Jamil Zaki, examining how cynicism impacts modern life and what small businesses can learn from it. Although Steve finds the book overly padded with anecdotes, he acknowledges Zaki’s valuable observations on the epidemic of cynicism we face today. Zaki distinguishes between ancient cynics, who were non-conformists with a belief in humanity, and modern cynics, whose outlook is shaped by mistrust and the belief that the world and people are inherently untrustworthy. This shift has infected various aspects of society, including politics and cultural discourse, leaving many feeling hopeless and isolated.

To counteract cynicism, Zaki suggests embracing scepticism rather than mistrust. While cynicism assumes the worst, scepticism prompts us to seek evidence and clarity before forming opinions. David highlights how this approach can be beneficial in small business, particularly in decision-making. Rather than succumbing to fears about economic conditions or industry trends, business owners can examine evidence, assess risks, and make informed choices. By adopting this type of clear-headed, evidence-based approach, small business owners can avoid knee-jerk reactions and build a resilient, growth-oriented mindset.

Zaki also stresses the importance of trust, noting that when we show trust in others, we often inspire them to act with integrity. Steve reflects on a marketing email he received from a company that leaned heavily into fearmongering by suggesting that neighbours might report each other’s financial misdeeds. He criticises this cynical approach to marketing, noting how it fosters mistrust rather than community. Instead, Steve and David advocate for marketing that encourages positive engagement and builds relationships, arguing that trust-based approaches create loyal, satisfied clients and a stronger, healthier brand.

25:15 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
The Problem with Inauthentic LinkedIn Engagement: When AI-Generated Comments Go Wrong

In this Problem segment, Steve and David tackle an issue that lurks beneath the surface of professional networking on LinkedIn: the rising trend of AI-generated comments as a substitute for genuine engagement. This conversation was sparked by insights from Richard Bliss of BlissPoint Consulting, shared in the Sandler Worldwide How to Succeed podcast. Bliss argues that while posting content on LinkedIn has limited reach—often only about 10% of your followers see it—commenting on others' posts, especially those of potential clients, can increase your visibility and connection opportunities. Steve and David agree with the general advice to engage thoughtfully, which they see as aligned with their long-standing approach to social selling.

However, Bliss takes his advice a step further, suggesting that if you’re unsure how to comment meaningfully on a post, you could use ChatGPT to generate ideas. This is where Steve and David find themselves at odds with Bliss’s approach. They express concern that relying on AI to craft comments can lead to inauthentic interactions that ultimately erode trust. Steve likens this practice to "comment spam," a form of hollow engagement that could harm the integrity of LinkedIn’s platform if it becomes widespread. For professionals seeking genuine connections, surface-level AI-generated comments undermine the very goal of LinkedIn—to foster meaningful professional relationships.

David underscores the potential long-term impact: if LinkedIn becomes overrun with AI-generated “gunk,” the platform risks losing its appeal as a space for serious professional engagement. In an experiment to test Bliss’s approach, Steve plans to post a comment about Bliss’s views on LinkedIn to see if Bliss engages directly or if his response bears the hallmarks of AI-generated fluff. For Steve and David, this experiment is a way to stand by their principles of authenticity while calling out the creeping problem of shallow, AI-driven commentary on professional platforms.

31:15 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
Nobody Cares (But Really, They Do): AI in Marketing and the New Fiverr Campaign

In this Perspicacity segment, Steve and David examine Fiverr’s latest ad campaign, Nobody Cares: The Musical, which playfully addresses the shifting public attitude towards AI in creative work. The ad’s catchy tune drives home a clear message: clients don’t care if you use AI as long as the final product meets their expectations. This campaign arrives at a time when many professionals, including Steve, are navigating this very issue. In his own work, Steve recalls how he excitedly explained to a client that AI was helping him expedite a project. The client’s response? A dismissive, “I actually don’t care”—highlighting the very sentiment Fiverr is capitalising on.

David observes that the ad reflects a remarkable cultural shift. Within a year, public opinion has moved from scepticism about AI to acceptance, with a focus squarely on results rather than processes. He acknowledges that while clients increasingly care less about the “how” behind a project, they remain intensely focused on the “what”—does it work? Is it high-quality? The ad, by juxtaposing a lively musical format with blunt honesty, strikes a chord by acknowledging that, ultimately, clients just want deliverables that meet their standards.

However, Steve raises a note of caution. While the ad’s message is appealing, he’s wary of using platforms like Fiverr due to concerns about quality control and security, particularly with freelancers from diverse legal jurisdictions. While Fiverr promises efficiency and skill, there’s always the risk of receiving subpar or even compromised work. For Steve and David, Fiverr’s ad brilliantly captures a modern truth, but whether it’ll win over cautious users like themselves is another question.

Welcome to this episode of Talking About Marketing, where we’re diving into some deep and sometimes challenging themes.
First, in the Person segment, we find wisdom in Dostoevsky’s enduring quotes, unpacking how his views on self-awareness and authenticity resonate in our modern, often superficial world.
Next, in the Principles segment, we explore Hope for Cynics by Jamil Zaki, a book that navigates the line between cynicism and trust, with takeaways on how small businesses can maintain genuine connections in an increasingly sceptical society.
Moving into Problems, we tackle the trend of using AI to generate engagement on LinkedIn, questioning whether superficial comments truly foster meaningful relationships or if they’re diluting the platform’s value.
Finally, in Perspicacity, we review Fiverr’s new ad campaign that boldly claims “nobody cares” if you use AI, so long as the end result delivers—raising the question of whether transparency or results really matter most in the age of AI.
Get ready to take notes!
Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:15 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal. Dostoevsky on Truth and Self-Understanding
In this episode's Person segment, Steve and David delve into the philosophy of Fyodor Dostoevsky, exploring some of his most powerful quotes and their relevance to both personal growth and business. From insights on self-deception to the courage required for truth-telling, they reflect on Dostoevsky’s gritty observations and how they apply in today’s world, particularly for small business owners. Steve recounts his own experiences as a theatre critic, where speaking the truth can feel more challenging—and necessary—than offering easy flattery.
The conversation deepens as they discuss Dostoevsky’s assertion that many betray themselves for nothing, often due to fear or cowardice. David and Steve relate this theme to the world of small business, encouraging entrepreneurs to push through self-doubt and put their ideas out into the world, even if it feels vulnerable. They further explore the existential need to create meaning, both in life and in business, emphasizing that a lack of purpose can lead to a trapped, cynical mindset—a struggle Dostoevsky understood deeply.
Dostoevsky’s musings about unseen prisons resonate with Steve and David’s discussion of modern technology, likening smartphones to "ankle bracelets" that keep us tethered to distractions and conformity. They observe how social media encourages surface-level thinking, deterring thoughtful expression and reinforcing a fearful, mob-driven culture. As they dissect these ideas, they advocate for a conscious approach to technology, urging listeners to resist the allure of passive consumption and embrace the challenge of carving out a meaningful, self-directed path.
13:45 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today. Overcoming Cynicism in Business and Life: A New Hope for Marketing
In this Principles segment, Steve and David explore insights from Hope for Cynics by Jamil Zaki, examining how cynicism impacts modern life and what small businesses can learn from it. Although Steve finds the book overly padded with anecdotes, he acknowledges Zaki’s valuable observations on the epidemic of cynicism we face today. Zaki distinguishes between ancient cynics, who were non-conformists with a belief in humanity, and modern cynics, whose outlook is shaped by mistrust and the belief that the world and people are inherently untrustworthy. This shift has infected various aspects of society, including politics and cultural discourse, leaving many feeling hopeless and isolated.
To counteract cynicism, Zaki suggests embracing scepticism rather than mistrust. While cynicism assumes the worst, scepticism prompts us to seek evidence and clarity before forming opinions. David highlights how this approach can be beneficial in small business, particularly in decision-making. Rather than succumbing to fears about economic conditions or industry trends, business owners can examine evidence, assess risks, and make informed choices. By adopting this type of clear-headed, evidence-based approach, small business owners can avoid knee-jerk reactions and build a resilient, growth-oriented mindset.
Zaki also stresses the importance of trust, noting that when we show trust in others, we often inspire them to act with integrity. Steve reflects on a marketing email he received from a company that leaned heavily into fearmongering by suggesting that neighbours might report each other’s financial misdeeds. He criticises this cynical approach to marketing, noting how it fosters mistrust rather than community. Instead, Steve and David advocate for marketing that encourages positive engagement and builds relationships, arguing that trust-based approaches create loyal, satisfied clients and a stronger, healthier brand.
25:15 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners. The Problem with Inauthentic LinkedIn Engagement: When AI-Generated Comments Go Wrong
In this Problem segment, Steve and David tackle an issue that lurks beneath the surface of professional networking on LinkedIn: the rising trend of AI-generated comments as a substitute for genuine engagement. This conversation was sparked by insights from Richard Bliss of BlissPoint Consulting, shared in the Sandler Worldwide How to Succeed podcast. Bliss argues that while posting content on LinkedIn has limited reach—often only about 10% of your followers see it—commenting on others' posts, especially those of potential clients, can increase your visibility and connection opportunities. Steve and David agree with the general advice to engage thoughtfully, which they see as aligned with their long-standing approach to social selling.
However, Bliss takes his advice a step further, suggesting that if you’re unsure how to comment meaningfully on a post, you could use ChatGPT to generate ideas. This is where Steve and David find themselves at odds with Bliss’s approach. They express concern that relying on AI to craft comments can lead to inauthentic interactions that ultimately erode trust. Steve likens this practice to "comment spam," a form of hollow engagement that could harm the integrity of LinkedIn’s platform if it becomes widespread. For professionals seeking genuine connections, surface-level AI-generated comments undermine the very goal of LinkedIn—to foster meaningful professional relationships.
David underscores the potential long-term impact: if LinkedIn becomes overrun with AI-generated “gunk,” the platform risks losing its appeal as a space for serious professional engagement. In an experiment to test Bliss’s approach, Steve plans to post a comment about Bliss’s views on LinkedIn to see if Bliss engages directly or if his response bears the hallmarks of AI-generated fluff. For Steve and David, this experiment is a way to stand by their principles of authenticity while calling out the creeping problem of shallow, AI-driven commentary on professional platforms.
31:15 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past. Nobody Cares (But Really, They Do): AI in Marketing and the New Fiverr Campaign
In this Perspicacity segment, Steve and David examine Fiverr’s latest ad campaign, Nobody Cares: The Musical, which playfully addresses the shifting public attitude towards AI in creative work. The ad’s catchy tune drives home a clear message: clients don’t care if you use AI as long as the final product meets their expectations. This campaign arrives at a time when many professionals, including Steve, are navigating this very issue. In his own work, Steve recalls how he excitedly explained to a client that AI was helping him expedite a project. The client’s response? A dismissive, “I actually don’t care”—highlighting the very sentiment Fiverr is capitalising on.
David observes that the ad reflects a remarkable cultural shift. Within a year, public opinion has moved from scepticism about AI to acceptance, with a focus squarely on results rather than processes. He acknowledges that while clients increasingly care less about the “how” behind a project, they remain intensely focused on the “what”—does it work? Is it high-quality? The ad, by juxtaposing a lively musical format with blunt honesty, strikes a chord by acknowledging that, ultimately, clients just want deliverables that meet their standards.
However, Steve raises a note of caution. While the ad’s message is appealing, he’s wary of using platforms like Fiverr due to concerns about quality control and security, particularly with freelancers from diverse legal jurisdictions. While Fiverr promises efficiency and skill, there’s always the risk of receiving subpar or even compromised work. For Steve and David, Fiverr’s ad brilliantly captures a modern truth, but whether it’ll win over cautious users like themselves is another question.

In this episode of Talking About Marketing, Steve and David delve into Dostoevsky’s wisdom on self-awareness and authenticity, explore the delicate balance between cynicism and trust in Hope for Cynics, confront the dangers of superficial AI-generated engagement on LinkedIn, and analyse Fiverr’s bold new ad campaign that claims “nobody cares” if you use AI as long as the results speak for themselves.

Hope For Cynics -  From Dostoevsky With Love

In this episode of Talking About Marketing, Steve and David begin by diving into the concept of the "wild creature mind" from Steve Biddulph's latest book, unpacking how our instincts and body signals often guide us before our logical brain catches up.

Moving into the Principles segment, they explore how this awareness can enhance confidence in professional settings, like marketing talks or networking events, by focusing on connection over cleverness.

In the Problems segment, they challenge the old adage "look after the cents and the dollars will take care of themselves," urging small business owners to step back and see the bigger picture.

Finally, in Perspicacity, they dissect H&R Block's quirky tax ad, debating the balance of humour and simplicity in advertising and its relevance to bookkeeping and other industries.

Get ready to take notes!

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:00 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
Taming the Wild Creature Mind: Embracing Our Animal Instincts

In this episode, the Person segment explores the concept of the "wild creature mind," a term from Australian psychologist Steve Biddulph's latest book, Wild Creature Mind. Steve and David discuss how we've forgotten the animalistic and instinctive side of our nature, which plays a vital role in how we experience and respond to the world. By reconnecting with these instincts, often triggered by the vagus nerve, we can better understand emotions like anxiety, stress, and even joy. These bodily signals help guide us in real-time, long before our conscious mind catches up.

The segment highlights Biddulph’s findings, supported by the latest neuroscience research, which demonstrates that the right side of our brain—non-verbal and sensory—is constantly processing our surroundings. It’s not until the left side funnels these experiences into words that we make sense of them. This shift in perspective, from privileging rational thought to acknowledging physical sensations, can recalibrate how we navigate everything from personal wellbeing to professional interactions.

For small business owners, the takeaway is clear: rather than relying solely on clever words or polished marketing, true connection is forged when we are fully present in our body, comfortable in our surroundings, and responsive to others. Trusting these instincts allows us to operate more effectively and authentically in both business and life.

12:00 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
From Wild Creatures to Bookkeepers: Connecting Emotion to Value

In this episode's Principles segment, Steve reflects on a recent speaking engagement at the Polaris Centre, where he presented on the "Magic of Marketing." Despite being in a room full of strangers, Steve applied insights from Wild Creature Mind, remaining comfortable by focusing on providing genuine value rather than performing. This shift helped him stay grounded and centred, leading to meaningful connections.

After the talk, two interesting questions arose, which Steve and David use to illustrate important marketing principles. The first question focused on the number of Instagram followers, highlighting the misconception that vanity metrics like follower counts are the key to success. Steve and David stress that engagement is far more important, as it indicates genuine connection and impact—essential for building trust and driving results.

The second question came from a bookkeeper unsure how to make her services seem interesting. Steve's advice reframed her value: rather than focusing on the dry details of bookkeeping, she should emphasise how she lifts the emotional burden from her clients, transforming from a mundane service provider into a hero who delivers peace of mind. By understanding the emotional and physical experience of her clients, the bookkeeper can communicate her value more powerfully and effectively.

18:00 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
Looking After the Future, Not Just the Cents

In the Problem segment, Steve and David dive into a common business misconception: focusing too much on the small details while neglecting the bigger picture. Drawing from the old adage, "Look after the cents and the dollars will look after themselves," Steve questions whether this mindset still holds true in modern business. David firmly disagrees, explaining that focusing exclusively on the "cents"—the minor day-to-day details—can lead to missing bigger opportunities and changes in the market.

David highlights that while paying attention to detail is important, it's equally critical to regularly lift your head and assess the broader business landscape. Small refinements only help if you're adjusting to the changing world around you. He argues that if you focus solely on the present, you're at risk of being unprepared for future changes, market shifts, or potential opportunities.

To avoid this trap, David advises business owners to carve out time to reflect on where their industry is heading and how they want their business to grow. Even setting aside just an hour a month to consider future trends and opportunities can lead to significant improvements, helping businesses stay adaptable and making future planning much easier.

21:00 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
Greed, Comedy, and the Quick Fix

In this Perspicacity segment, Steve and David delve into the world of advertising and accountants, highlighting how some firms, like H&R Block, use humour and simplicity to sell their services. The well-known tax company employs a comedic approach to push its "instant refund" service, using an ad that blends absurd situations with the basic human desire to get money quickly. Steve notes that the ad taps directly into our gut instinct: we want the money, and we want it now.

David, however, critiques the ad for its lack of explanation. While the message of getting the pain out of the way quickly resonates, the comedy element feels offbeat rather than genuinely funny. He suggests that adding a playful nod to the boring nature of the task—such as referencing the infamous "blah blah blah"—might improve the comedic value while keeping the ad relatable.

For businesses like bookkeeping, David notes that a similar approach could work. Instead of focusing on the technical details, an ad could target the pain point of dealing with finances and offer a simple solution with a touch of humour. Whether it's "blah blah blah" or a playful jab at how boring bookkeeping is, the goal is to focus on relieving the client's pain, which will resonate deeply.

In this episode of Talking About Marketing, Steve and David begin by diving into the concept of the "wild creature mind" from Steve Biddulph's latest book, unpacking how our instincts and body signals often guide us before our logical brain catches up.
Moving into the Principles segment, they explore how this awareness can enhance confidence in professional settings, like marketing talks or networking events, by focusing on connection over cleverness.
In the Problems segment, they challenge the old adage "look after the cents and the dollars will take care of themselves," urging small business owners to step back and see the bigger picture.
Finally, in Perspicacity, they dissect H&amp;R Block's quirky tax ad, debating the balance of humour and simplicity in advertising and its relevance to bookkeeping and other industries.
Get ready to take notes!
Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:00 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal. Taming the Wild Creature Mind: Embracing Our Animal Instincts
In this episode, the Person segment explores the concept of the "wild creature mind," a term from Australian psychologist Steve Biddulph's latest book, <a href="https://amzn.to/3A2g92Z">Wild Creature Mind</a>. Steve and David discuss how we've forgotten the animalistic and instinctive side of our nature, which plays a vital role in how we experience and respond to the world. By reconnecting with these instincts, often triggered by the vagus nerve, we can better understand emotions like anxiety, stress, and even joy. These bodily signals help guide us in real-time, long before our conscious mind catches up.
The segment highlights Biddulph’s findings, supported by the latest neuroscience research, which demonstrates that the right side of our brain—non-verbal and sensory—is constantly processing our surroundings. It’s not until the left side funnels these experiences into words that we make sense of them. This shift in perspective, from privileging rational thought to acknowledging physical sensations, can recalibrate how we navigate everything from personal wellbeing to professional interactions.
For small business owners, the takeaway is clear: rather than relying solely on clever words or polished marketing, true connection is forged when we are fully present in our body, comfortable in our surroundings, and responsive to others. Trusting these instincts allows us to operate more effectively and authentically in both business and life.
12:00 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today. From Wild Creatures to Bookkeepers: Connecting Emotion to Value
In this episode's Principles segment, Steve reflects on a recent speaking engagement at the Polaris Centre, where he presented on the "Magic of Marketing." Despite being in a room full of strangers, Steve applied insights from Wild Creature Mind, remaining comfortable by focusing on providing genuine value rather than performing. This shift helped him stay grounded and centred, leading to meaningful connections.
After the talk, two interesting questions arose, which Steve and David use to illustrate important marketing principles. The first question focused on the number of Instagram followers, highlighting the misconception that vanity metrics like follower counts are the key to success. Steve and David stress that engagement is far more important, as it indicates genuine connection and impact—essential for building trust and driving results.
The second question came from a bookkeeper unsure how to make her services seem interesting. Steve's advice reframed her value: rather than focusing on the dry details of bookkeeping, she should emphasise how she lifts the emotional burden from her clients, transforming from a mundane service provider into a hero who delivers peace of mind. By understanding the emotional and physical experience of her clients, the bookkeeper can communicate her value more powerfully and effectively.
18:00 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners. Looking After the Future, Not Just the Cents
In the Problem segment, Steve and David dive into a common business misconception: focusing too much on the small details while neglecting the bigger picture. Drawing from the old adage, "Look after the cents and the dollars will look after themselves," Steve questions whether this mindset still holds true in modern business. David firmly disagrees, explaining that focusing exclusively on the "cents"—the minor day-to-day details—can lead to missing bigger opportunities and changes in the market.
David highlights that while paying attention to detail is important, it's equally critical to regularly lift your head and assess the broader business landscape. Small refinements only help if you're adjusting to the changing world around you. He argues that if you focus solely on the present, you're at risk of being unprepared for future changes, market shifts, or potential opportunities.
To avoid this trap, David advises business owners to carve out time to reflect on where their industry is heading and how they want their business to grow. Even setting aside just an hour a month to consider future trends and opportunities can lead to significant improvements, helping businesses stay adaptable and making future planning much easier.
21:00 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past. Greed, Comedy, and the Quick Fix
In this Perspicacity segment, Steve and David delve into the world of advertising and accountants, highlighting how some firms, like H&amp;R Block, use humour and simplicity to sell their services. The well-known tax company employs a comedic approach to push its "instant refund" service, using an ad that blends absurd situations with the basic human desire to get money quickly. Steve notes that the ad taps directly into our gut instinct: we want the money, and we want it now.
David, however, critiques the ad for its lack of explanation. While the message of getting the pain out of the way quickly resonates, the comedy element feels offbeat rather than genuinely funny. He suggests that adding a playful nod to the boring nature of the task—such as referencing the infamous "blah blah blah"—might improve the comedic value while keeping the ad relatable.
For businesses like bookkeeping, David notes that a similar approach could work. Instead of focusing on the technical details, an ad could target the pain point of dealing with finances and offer a simple solution with a touch of humour. Whether it's "blah blah blah" or a playful jab at how boring bookkeeping is, the goal is to focus on relieving the client's pain, which will resonate deeply.

In this episode, Steve and David explore the deep connection between our instinctual, animalistic "wild creature mind" and how it impacts our personal well-being and professional life, and discuss the importance of balancing clever marketing with genuine connection.

Go With Your Gut - In Praise Of Instinct

In this episode, Steve and David dive into the power of small habits and mindset shifts that boost both personal well-being and business growth.

In the "Person" segment, they share the story behind Steve's fitness journey, emphasising how physical health influences mental resilience and the importance of a supportive environment.

The "Principles" segment explores how preemptive steps—whether in marketing or fitness—help navigate life's challenges and build strong foundations for future success.

The "Problem" segment highlights the crucial role of accountability buddies in maintaining discipline, whether in marketing strategies or fitness routines.

Finally, in "Perspicacity," they revisit the iconic Australian "Life. Be in it." campaign, discussing how its motivating spirit could be revived today with the help of AI and community encouragement. Join them for practical tips and relatable insights on creating a thriving life and business.

Get ready to take notes!

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:40 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
Sore But Happy – Fitness as a Foundation for Business

In this week's Person segment, Steve and David dive into the journey of physical well-being and its deeper impact on business and life. A call from vocal coach Alexandra (Ali) Lopez sparks a candid discussion about the importance of balancing work with fitness. For Steve, the journey began with a routine of walking and visits to an exercise physiologist but transformed when health concerns and a recommendation from a friend, Adelaide Techguy Richard Pascoe, led him to a more regular, enjoyable gym habit at Fitness Habitat.

The conversation focuses on the challenge of finding the right motivation for fitness amidst the constant demands of running a business. Steve shares his evolution from feeling duty-bound to exercise, to discovering the internal drive that makes early morning workouts an ingrained part of his week. He notes how small, consistent efforts—like holding a plank longer than before—are signs of improvement that make the journey worthwhile.

David reinforces the idea that busy small business owners can benefit immensely from integrating mindful physical routines. When fitness is no longer just another task but a space to connect with the body and release the mind from work stress, it becomes a source of strength, both mentally and physically. As Steve reflects, being "sore but happy" is not just a feeling—it’s a way to live and work better.

14:15 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
Small Steps, Big Gains – Building Resilience in Business and Health

Steve and David extend the conversation on well-being by drawing a clear parallel between physical health and business success. The key principle they explore is preemptive action—taking small, positive steps before problems escalate, whether in your personal health or business practices. Just as maintaining a fitness routine makes future challenges easier to face, proactive marketing strategies can pave the way for smoother business growth.

David shares his perspective on how addressing potential issues early on—like tending to well-being or foundational business elements—requires fewer resources than tackling larger crises later. For Steve, committing to a consistent, manageable fitness routine is akin to a small business owner building a steady marketing practice: it’s about regular effort, gradual improvement, and staying the course even when the immediate payoff isn't obvious.

In practical terms, they emphasise the idea of dusting yourself off when things don’t go to plan. It’s not about being perfect but about consistency and forgiving setbacks. Whether it’s skipping a workout or lagging behind on marketing tasks, the principle is the same—start again, no shame or blame, and build from small successes.

20:15 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
Finding Accountability – The Power of a Buddy System

Steve reflects on a problem that often hinders people from sticking to their well-being or marketing routines: lack of accountability. For him, a crucial factor in staying committed to his fitness journey was having a buddy—Richard Pascoe—by his side. This consistent social pressure helped solidify the habit in its early, fragile days and eventually led to a more self-sustained commitment.

David builds on this by offering a broader principle: “Behave in a way that makes it easy to trust you.” Whether in fitness or business, fostering trust through accountability not only helps in forming good habits but strengthens bonds within your community. It's about showing up for yourself and others, building a sense of reliability and connection that becomes mutually beneficial over time.

The essence of a buddy system lies in having someone to help break the ice and facilitate connections, ultimately growing into a supportive community. While this kind of support doesn’t materialise overnight, having a trusted companion acts as the catalyst to unlock progress and foster the growth of strong, positive habits.

25:30 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
A Classic Health Campaign Reimagined for the Present

In this segment, Steve and David reflect on the iconic Australian "Life. Be in it." campaign, particularly focusing on the ads featuring Norm, an average bloke encouraged to find ways to stay active.

These ads emphasised simple daily activities—like flying kites or taking walks—as practical ways to boost fitness. The conversation explores whether the campaign’s messaging would still be effective today, and they argue it would be, given its positive encouragement and relatable themes. David points out how the character of Norma, who supports Norm in getting active, was progressive for its time in promoting inclusive well-being for both genders.

The discussion moves to how a modern iteration could benefit from the use of AI and gamification. Steve imagines an app that could offer tailored, context-specific activity suggestions, drawing on personal data and location to encourage physical activity, in the same light-hearted way Norm and Norma did in the original campaign. By making the experience personal and interactive, this modern Norm could break down barriers to exercise in fun, practical ways.

The segment closes with a reflection on the importance of community and support in fostering well-being habits, whether through accountability buddies or positive encouragement, reinforcing the need for motivation that is both kind and consistent.

In this episode, Steve and David dive into the power of small habits and mindset shifts that boost both personal well-being and business growth.
In the "Person" segment, they share the story behind Steve's fitness journey, emphasising how physical health influences mental resilience and the importance of a supportive environment.
The "Principles" segment explores how preemptive steps—whether in marketing or fitness—help navigate life's challenges and build strong foundations for future success.
The "Problem" segment highlights the crucial role of accountability buddies in maintaining discipline, whether in marketing strategies or fitness routines.
Finally, in "Perspicacity," they revisit the iconic Australian "Life. Be in it." campaign, discussing how its motivating spirit could be revived today with the help of AI and community encouragement. Join them for practical tips and relatable insights on creating a thriving life and business.
Get ready to take notes!
Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:40 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal. Sore But Happy – Fitness as a Foundation for Business
In this week's Person segment, Steve and David dive into the journey of physical well-being and its deeper impact on business and life. A call from vocal coach <a href="https://alexandralopezstudios.com/">Alexandra (Ali) Lopez</a> sparks a candid discussion about the importance of balancing work with fitness. For Steve, the journey began with a routine of walking and visits to an exercise physiologist but transformed when health concerns and a recommendation from a friend, <a href="https://adelaidetechguy.com.au/">Adelaide Techguy Richard Pascoe</a>, led him to a more regular, enjoyable gym habit at <a href="https://fitnesshabitat.com.au/">Fitness Habitat</a>.
The conversation focuses on the challenge of finding the right motivation for fitness amidst the constant demands of running a business. Steve shares his evolution from feeling duty-bound to exercise, to discovering the internal drive that makes early morning workouts an ingrained part of his week. He notes how small, consistent efforts—like holding a plank longer than before—are signs of improvement that make the journey worthwhile.
David reinforces the idea that busy small business owners can benefit immensely from integrating mindful physical routines. When fitness is no longer just another task but a space to connect with the body and release the mind from work stress, it becomes a source of strength, both mentally and physically. As Steve reflects, being "sore but happy" is not just a feeling—it’s a way to live and work better.
14:15 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today. Small Steps, Big Gains – Building Resilience in Business and Health
Steve and David extend the conversation on well-being by drawing a clear parallel between physical health and business success. The key principle they explore is preemptive action—taking small, positive steps before problems escalate, whether in your personal health or business practices. Just as maintaining a fitness routine makes future challenges easier to face, proactive marketing strategies can pave the way for smoother business growth.
David shares his perspective on how addressing potential issues early on—like tending to well-being or foundational business elements—requires fewer resources than tackling larger crises later. For Steve, committing to a consistent, manageable fitness routine is akin to a small business owner building a steady marketing practice: it’s about regular effort, gradual improvement, and staying the course even when the immediate payoff isn't obvious.
In practical terms, they emphasise the idea of dusting yourself off when things don’t go to plan. It’s not about being perfect but about consistency and forgiving setbacks. Whether it’s skipping a workout or lagging behind on marketing tasks, the principle is the same—start again, no shame or blame, and build from small successes.
20:15 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners. Finding Accountability – The Power of a Buddy System
Steve reflects on a problem that often hinders people from sticking to their well-being or marketing routines: lack of accountability. For him, a crucial factor in staying committed to his fitness journey was having a buddy—Richard Pascoe—by his side. This consistent social pressure helped solidify the habit in its early, fragile days and eventually led to a more self-sustained commitment.
David builds on this by offering a broader principle: “Behave in a way that makes it easy to trust you.” Whether in fitness or business, fostering trust through accountability not only helps in forming good habits but strengthens bonds within your community. It's about showing up for yourself and others, building a sense of reliability and connection that becomes mutually beneficial over time.
The essence of a buddy system lies in having someone to help break the ice and facilitate connections, ultimately growing into a supportive community. While this kind of support doesn’t materialise overnight, having a trusted companion acts as the catalyst to unlock progress and foster the growth of strong, positive habits.
25:30 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past. A Classic Health Campaign Reimagined for the Present
In this segment, Steve and David reflect on the iconic Australian "<a href="https://lifebeinit.org/">Life. Be in it</a>." campaign, particularly focusing on the ads featuring Norm, an average bloke encouraged to find ways to stay active.
These ads emphasised simple daily activities—like flying kites or taking walks—as practical ways to boost fitness. The conversation explores whether the campaign’s messaging would still be effective today, and they argue it would be, given its positive encouragement and relatable themes. David points out how the character of Norma, who supports Norm in getting active, was progressive for its time in promoting inclusive well-being for both genders.
The discussion moves to how a modern iteration could benefit from the use of AI and gamification. Steve imagines an app that could offer tailored, context-specific activity suggestions, drawing on personal data and location to encourage physical activity, in the same light-hearted way Norm and Norma did in the original campaign. By making the experience personal and interactive, this modern Norm could break down barriers to exercise in fun, practical ways.
The segment closes with a reflection on the importance of community and support in fostering well-being habits, whether through accountability buddies or positive encouragement, reinforcing the need for motivation that is both kind and consistent.

Explore how well-being, marketing principles, and timeless campaigns intersect to help small business owners thrive, personally and professionally.

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