Join @thebuzzknight for this in-depth conversation with film director Thom Zimny, discussing the new Bruce Springsteen Hulu Documentary "Road Diary." The film chronicles Bruce and the E Street Band and their latest global tour. You'll love this music interview podcast episode as Thom shares his passion and love for the Boss and his dedication to his craft.
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Taking a Walk Road Diary was one of those great things in reflection where I suddenly had the amazing task of how.
Do you convey something that you can't.
Even put into words, which is the experience of Ea Street in the pit, looking at this band.
Seeing people. How do you film that?
How do you get across sonically the power of the live band.
Welcome to the Taken a Walk Podcast, where Buzz Night talks with artists of all kinds about their passion for music and their art. Today is no exception. Buzz is joined by film director and editor Tom Zimony. Tom won an Emmy Award in two thousand and one from his work on the Bruce Springsteen Concert Special Live from New York City. Tom has worked on a variety of television and movie projects, but today he joins Buzz to discuss his latest project, Road Diary, Bruce Springsteen and the East Street Band. It's coming later this month to Hulu. Tom takes a deep dive into the process of putting this tour together, including rehearsal footage, backstage moments, and reflections from Bruce. Viewers will be treated to a never before seen experience with Bruce and the East Street Band Tom discusses how it all came together and what we can expect to see on Taking a Walk right now with buzz Night.
Hi Tom, it's an honor to have you on the Taking a Walk podcast and I have to tell you Road Diaries is an absolute triumph. It is amazing. Congratulations on it. I want to ask you who are some of the filmmakers and their work that shaped you.
It's a great question.
My history in filmmaking, there's a strong influence with Martin Scercenzi.
It's always been a go to for me over the years, and with Road Diary.
I actually when I was editing this documentary, I kept some of Scorsese's films in my computer to easy access, just to bring up those images, the power of Scorsese's cutting light. For years, I've I've gone to it, studied it. Also filmmakers also like John Ford, Frank Borzhy, classic Hollywood filmmakers, Billy Wilder. I spent a lot of time, just like people will listen to music, I spent a lot of time watching films over.
And over again, studying them. So it's a big part of my journey.
So the film started as an invite from John and Bruce to come film rehearsal. At what point did the project start taking shape and how did that occur?
You know, the point that the project started taking shape where you could declare it a film was after the group of rehearsals I filmed in New Jersey, the very initial rehearsals. So it was at that point I sat in the edit room with John and sat in the edit room with Bruce and started to see a story unfolding. And that story, for me ended up being a big part of Road Diary was the story of Bruce building this new show, the set list, the details of what would go in, how he would interact with the band. As a filmmaker and as a fan, I knew I was capturing things that were not shared before in Bruce's library and catalog of the films, but.
Also even the casual fan.
It was something great to be that fly on the wall unpacking the process of Bruce and e Street getting.
Ready for a new tour.
So it's anything but a straight concert video. I mean, it deals with the various themes, some of them very heavy themes. Did you talk to Bruce and John during the process or were you just sort of allowed to do your own thing.
You know, I always talk to them, and I always when I say them it's John and Bruce. I always get influences from the conversations, and that's it's not something that I'm bringing to Bruce's attention that I'm seeing certain themes.
At times, I feel.
Like the.
Dialogue is a dialogue of trust, which gives me a lot of space to create. But at the same time I'm in sync with them and constantly being given this great thing which is trust. Trust to be in the space to film things, trust to be around, trust to have time with this footage and figure it out. So it's not something like they just let me go off and run to do the film. We start a conversation and we continue it till the very end, whether that's the details of mixing or or and sometimes there's things that just work out naturally, and there's other times items that you just end up discussing a lot more and trying different things.
The fan aspect being included is really amazing and really touching for me. It was one of as a fan, one of the most emotional parts. Just seeing the pure joy and you know, just brings tears to your eyes. You know, going back in time from my own experiences, have you ever seen anything like his connection to his fans and any other artists?
You know, in my my experience in listening to live music and also just filming the concert footage itself. To me, there's no I have no reference, there's nothing, there's nothing like this. When I was filming Roe Diary, especially in Europe, there's this magical thing that was happening with with the stage lighting and outdoor settings where you would capture these fans and their eyes in a way that could demonstrate many ideas. And for me as a filmmaker, what I was seeing was this moment of reflection, and that.
Reflection is all part of the show.
So as a fan, I've witnessed this transformation, this musical transformation that happens in the middle of a Bruce concert. For me and I wanted this film Rode Diary to have that element, which is you're having a great time, You're feeling the spirit of rock and roll, You're deep in the pit in the community of other fans, You're recognizing maybe some people you saw before, You're having the experience of bringing somebody for the first time. All these different feelings happening. I wanted my film to reflect those eyes, those faces that are going through that experience, and there is no way that I would have been just able to make this film five years into my journey. I've been working with Bruce and John for twenty four years, so I've been educated in the world of E Street and I've experienced a tremendous amount of the music and the power of Bruce the artist, the writer, and the performer, but also John the producer, being a strong influence in my life as a filmmaker.
So I took all these elements and this was the perfect storm.
Because this film and the album Letter to You are dealing with many themes, and these themes are reflected in Bruce's live show, which is reflection joy, power of rock and roll, the power of the moment, the power of reflecting on the past, who we've lost. It's a lot of different feelings. I don't think I came up with those themes. If anything, I was looking at Bruce's live show and trying to stand in the shadow of that and pick up that energy with this film.
Can you talk about your first connection with Bruce and how that occurred way way back.
Sure.
The very first connection with Bruce was in a summer resort town in Point Pleasant growing up, where I sat before a slam and shut record player and put down Darkness on the edge of town and looked at the typewriter font and then all of a sudden realized he was singing about a world around me. He was singing about my father, he was singing about my neighbor, he was singing about that guy in high school. This was a narrative and a style and a force of writing for me that opened up a door that was a sonic and cinematic dreamscape. As a teenager, I could think about these songs and really go to that place of sort of brain spotting where you imagine a world and.
You see it and you believe it.
This music was a deep, deep, deep force of positivity and a messenger for me as a teenager. I grew up in the environment too that the music was taking place, So some of the earlier music that I went to with Greetings and the other albums were reflecting the beauty of the summers that I had and in the melancholy of winter on the boardwalk. There was an early connection to this that just put me in the world in a certain place that it gave me a chance to dream, dream sonically.
What was your first Bruce concert experience? Do you vividly? I'm sure you remember it.
Yes, I do.
I you know, my first Bruce concert experience came from my best friend's mom secretly trying to get tickets in the mail for us and letting us go to the place of we.
Ordered our own tickets.
Back in the day you would have to send a letter and hope to receive tickets in the mail.
We got nothing. It was for the River Tour, and she appeared.
To us with tickets and it was in a magical moment because she was a huge influence for me in my life. And she took us to the River Tour and that was the start of me understanding the whole other side of Bruce and the band, which is the live performances.
And it was at the new brendan Burn Arena.
So I remember all these details vividly, But I carry all these things in the edit room. When I was making Road Diary, I would have conversations with that sixteen year old and pull out those memories or I never let myself forget.
Even though I've been around a lot of.
The things for years now, I never take it for granted. So that space of gratitude is not only a place that mind you, but it fuels your creativity. You have to remember how important it is to see the band walk into a room and the beginning of Road Diary, there's guys, the guys are hugging and you see this brotherhood of EA Street. I'm witnessing that and I'm filming it, and as a storyteller, I carried my past a little bit and bring it forward in the edit room. I know that a lot of times that sixteen year old will arrive and just be excited to see the EA Street band and Bruce.
So your first project with Bruce was Wings for Wheels, that making a Born to Run. What was it like for you to gain the insights from obviously an album that you adored.
You know, the very first project was live in New York actually, and that was a live concert. But to answer your question, the first doc I made was Wings for Wheels and Born to Run, and that was a start of something really important that I actually ended up exploring again in Road Diary, which is how do you tell this story? That goes beyond the uber fan connecting. How do you make an emotional story? Roe Diary ended up being that way too, where those questions would come to mind, because it's not a simple concert film, and it's not a simple telling of the guys coming back and going on the road. It's going in and out of themes and that's first film. Wings for Wheels was that in many ways, where I'm unfolding a story in the moment, but I'm also looking back and then I'm reminding you of.
This artist in the moment.
There's a great thing about Bruce's presence and this band is that they are never in the space of living on greatest hits. Bruce and Road Diary is introducing all kinds of new music to a new audience, new songs, and he's putting them together with songs of the past, creating a new feeling that the docs that I work on really try to stay close to that structure, because I just don't want to do a simple unpacking of Born to Run or Darkness on the Edge of Town. Bruce is such an artist in the moment, I want a sense of how he has that urgency to create and the importance of him looking back but also looking forward.
Is it fair to say that some aspect of the creation of this took you in a good way out of your comfort zone, you know, as a creator on.
Bro Diary was one of those great things in reflection where I suddenly had the amazing task of how do you convey something that you can't even put into words, which is the experience of EA Street in the pit looking at this band, seeing people.
How do you film that?
How do you get across sonically the power of the live band. How can we tell a story where we honor lost band members and bring them back in some ways? How can we describe Clarence Clemens and Danny Federici and bring them into the storytelling Roe Diary was one of my you know, it was an amazing experience for being with John and Bruce on this because I also went deep into the vault and found things that just work perfectly with this story. A young Bruce Springsteen playing Spirit in the Night and then realizing, well, wait a minute, that song is a staple. That song is part of the DNA of EA Street. Let's put together five versions and show the band growing, and show him evolving as an artist. Let's do that in a montage, but then also have the band talk about their different contributions that they bring to Bruce the band leader, Bruce the performer.
So a lot of.
These ideas are things that are are challenging in the moment, and Rode Diary definitely was one of those films that took me to a new place with the filmmaking and choices. And I had an amazing support on this because I had John and Bruce giving me full access to the tour, all the shows that were filmed, letting me film and run up and down, you know, the seats all over Europe and America, going to fans homes. Those are the tools I got to play with. And my biggest inspiration is Bruce. Because every album is different. There's no born run too, so we never lean filmically on a story device that's been done before. The film before this was in black and white Letter to You and in a studio, very contained shot, cinematically, very different feeling. Before that it was Western Stars, which was saturated color and now barn and then before that it was Broadway. In some ways, these films are all linking and bring you to Roe Diary.
If you watch them all.
That it's a continuation of Bruce having a conversation with fans.
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
So there was this point where Bruce began to you know, clearly want to document more about the band and you know, certainly the behind the scenes. And he picked you as you know, someone that he trusted to curate this. How does that make you feel?
You know, when I think of it, in that space of being picked, I am, you know, both.
With John and Bruce.
This is a huge, huge honor to be able to work with this history but also work with the new.
Music and go to that space of collaborating with them.
I mean we have had twenty four it's almost twenty five years, and that amount of trust in shorthand to have is is something that I wouldn't dream when I was sixteen. I couldn't dream this up. So I'm enormously grateful. I take it very serious. For me, I enjoy it and.
I take it serious.
But I also have a great grounding space of every time I get a call, I really do start from ground zero.
I start.
I don't rely on my history in any way to make it comfortable. If anything, I look back at the things and say, well, we're.
Not going to do this, but we could try to do this.
And I put myself through a lot of challenges, and that's because I've watched Bruce do this for decades now, where he has taken his storytelling to all different places, whether it's Broadway or whether it's with a Cedar band, or whether it's with East Street or a solo artist. That's a huge influence for me. So at the end of the day, I'm enormously grateful to have this in my life because it brings such joy. Bruce's writing and making the films together force you to a place of examination and where you are as a person, an artist, as a father. It's part of the fan experience where you listen to this music and you think about your life where you are. The films are no different in the creating that process, and the big thing is that they both have enriched my life in many ways. I make other films and I have a sense of John and Bruce and in all my art.
So so for that I'm grateful.
So the rehearsals were were less than a week and Bruce gathered the band I guess like six times or so, and Steve and John Lando both discussed, you know how out of the norm that was.
What's your takeaway about that?
I think.
I think Rod Diary explore is you know Steve as a musical director in a way that shows the complexities of Bruce the band leader. And in the doc I got a chance to look at like Bruce didn't rehearse the band a lot.
It was six days, so.
I felt like Bruce watching Bruce in these rehearsals and hearing him talk, he was dying to get back on the stage. He was ready. And Steve, on the other hand, was looking at certain details with new players, and John is observing everything. To me, that was the perfect metaphor of the beauty of both Bruce the solo artist, the.
Band leader, the collaborator.
So having all those forces and all that energy was a way of demonstrating to you the complexities of their creativity. John lets things happen, and it's observing and not missing a beat. Is there supportive in every form of whether Steve wants to take the ban and rehearse on things. Steve is wrapped up into certain details, and Max understands that Bruce wants to keep it a little bit raw, keep the excitement of mistakes, the beauty of accidents, not over rehearsing. So there's this magical thing that's happening that's not really being discussed until I got to the place of asking questions about it and could unpack it in the documentary. So Roe Diary gave me a great chance to try to show a little bit of these mysteries, mysteries of Bruce the bandleader, mysteries of what happens behind the scenes, some of the different personalities on how they contribute and collaborate in the scope of Bruce, and overall it was just one of those moments that you witnessed and you knew there was more to it.
And what I mean by.
That Steve being a musical director and then Bruce stepping back for a second to let him work out those details gave the show a certain polished layer, but also not to a point that things felt rehearsed.
Yeah, I'm so glad you delved into that because I feel, and I think you probably do, there's too much perfection that is sought after and the beauty and the rawness of sometimes imperfection in a process I think is so beautiful and fascinating.
It's been demonstrated with me many times. Think John Landau has been a huge influence to me for me to approach something highly prepared but ready, much like he would say to me for Bruce's audible, which means throwing a song that's not on the set list. There's a set list. You have some ideas, you have some things you might want to chase. You want to film the band a certain way, but all of a sudden you realize in Europe that you can get a certain look in slow motion, and you chase that. What's that slow motion giving you? It's a storytelling advice And with Road Diary, at times I slow things down to let you see details. And that came from just the pure accident of getting something great and slow mow and looking at it differently and saying, okay, besides us being present for these lives shows, we've got to break it down, to slow down the details so things can be examined. And in that you see Bruce's body and physicality, Bruce the band leader conducting the man. Your eye would not see that if it wasn't explored in the slow motion shot. It's exaggerating it too for drama, and this film ended up.
We screened this film in Toronto.
And for me it was a completely different experience as a filmmaker. It was the most emotional connection I saw an audience have, and Bruce and John have said to me that they're most happy with the story because it is bringing people to an emotional space, much the way the live shows have been, where there is that cathartic feeling at the end.
Well, speaking of emotional the Barcelona aspect of things, my goodness, I mean, I love how you tackled that. But tell me, though from an even deeper perspective, your perspective, what it's like being at a show in Barcelona.
You know, it's a great, great, great, great question.
My favorite moment in Roe diary, in filming comes from the space of watching the audience in Barcelona sing back to Bruce and the band, every sonic beat, every detail, every nuance, every earworm, every phrase, every drum beat of Born in the USA at a volume that I never experienced before.
There was a.
Force of energy that I could just feel throughout my whole body. Just it was the most intense thing to film, and by the end of the song, I had tears in my eyes and I still don't know why, but I couldn't put into words.
I know why. It was the power of that night, but it was the whole arc of the show.
It was bill up to that moment, and we filmed that, and the section of that is in the movie. It's a small section, but it's one of my most pleasant memories of being in a European audience. And I remember coming back and thinking to my crew that this is a moment that I need to clear up my eyes because they're going to ask me why I was so emotional. And I gathered with a crew of six people, very small documentary crew, and everyone in the circle had tears in her eyes. Everyone went through that same emotional experience. I ended up realizing much later that this was a common force of emotions and Barcelona being the first time I really felt it while filming, and it stays with you. We've really held onto these conversations and thoughts when mixing the movie. This movie I mixed at Skywalker, so I was really trying to put you in the pit and feel the bass and the drums in a certain way. It's not a passive movie where it's concert song to song in a certain way. I really played with the atmosphere so you feel like you're an empty stadium when Bruce's rehearsing. You feel that the tininess of other rehearsals. Like Rode Diary was one of those films I've been wanting to make for a long time because experiencing Bruce live in so many different venues in so many different ways, there's a texture to it, and I want to try to have this film get across those spaces.
I believe music has a sort of therapeutic, you know, healing powers.
I believe you.
Probably feel the same way.
Are there any examples of that that you witnessed personally that kind of further convinced you of music's healing powers and Bruce's healing powers.
Well.
I spent hundreds up hundreds of hours looking at footage that was shot of people taking in this music. And there's moments in the film with Rode Diary that I I have montages of what I consider that that transition, and I, for me, as a fan and as a filmmaker, I have always felt that that music has this healing force that that it brings you to this place that for me, it's very hard to articulate, but I hope the movie gets it across, which is, you know, there there, there is this moment.
Of self reflection.
I remember in I believe it was Dublin and seeing the crowd listen to the river and and Bruce sing along to that, and I remember the moment of people singing back the chorus, and and and the expressions in their and their faces.
All this they.
Carry a personal history that I don't want to project too much onto. But the eyes are what I read as a filmmaker and in wrote diary I've been you know, and other Bruce films. It's one of the bit of information that John gave me, which is, if you're searching for drama within the scene, check out what Bruce is doing.
His eyes will tell you.
And and and Bruce's connection to the audience and his expression.
The connection with the band he has and the communication they.
Have in gesture all are elements of this thing that I call like the healing power of music and and and it's very hard to put into words, but I feel like seeing wit and witnessing E Street Live has been very emotional and and and and great.
I think A.
Curtis explains that in some sense, the experiences in the USA and in Europe, it's like the church and people come back, and I try to show this in the film in America, and it's really there. It was an amazing reception in America but also in Europe where you see people engage in such.
A deep, deep way.
I think the eyes of the fans in the place of listening to music go beyond that space of celebrity attraction. You see people deep in thought, taking in the moment, but also an awareness of truth, whether it's that they love their partner, that they're happy to be there, they're so happy not to have a mask on, they're happy to be outside whatever, or they're just happy to be alive. Bruce's show in this film Rode Diary has those moments of celebration, and sometimes it'll just be shown in the glance and the smile of a fan.
And then the converse aspect, which I don't want to give too much away, but the darker, sadder themes as well. I mean, really take you on this incredible ride and you capture that so beautifully.
Thank you, Thank you.
I think I think, you know, playing around with different themes that explore all the avenues that we go through as a community, you know, the acceptance of time, mortality, losing people in our lives, you know, all those things that I played with as themes in the documentary, they really came from from Bruce's writing with the album Letter to You, and also the structuring of the show, how he plays together songs that had these themes, but also play together songs that reminded you to carry on, to laugh at yourself. It's totally the Bruce and the Band Live are not one emotional ride. You go through the craziness of glory days to the space of backstreets and see you in my dreams, where you're feeling the emotions of longing, loss and reflection. The film really tried to hold on to those tones. And again, like I've said many times, I'm standing in the shadow of Bruce's show and listening and learning and picking up the energy, and I wanted the film Roe Diary to reflect this.
I want to give an alert to our audience that you know, sometimes people film ends and they don't stick around really through the true end of it when it stops. What you did there with that montage at the end with the band introductions is incredible. And then of course the sweet moment you know with Bruce dancing with his mother to the Glenn Miller song is just amazing. So you know, people have to see this when it really ends, you know, this.
Film with Roe Diary at the end, I really wanted to honor a lot of the people who for the past twenty four years have been really supportive and and it's images of crew and fans and and in a way that I just wanted to break away from the cliches of people looking directly at camera and being fans and and and and sort of show them engaged, you know. And you know the power of working with Bruce is and and John is to be open to ideas and and and try things that you would never dream of. And this end credit sequence, we we found something really magical and really special that every time I see it, I get emotional. But it's it's something that I couldn't take credit for. It was a conversation with Bruce and and it was something that he brought forward to me as an idea and I'm just so grateful to have it in the film, and it's so special. So I hope everyone watched it and has that same experience of seeing themselves in the credit and a little bit more of another sign of Bruce and a moment that we all can relate to, which is a reflection on the ones we've lost or loved.
Thunder Road took a bit of a backseat. Is there a reason?
Nothing conscious of it.
The placement of it in the narrative just didn't seem in the storytelling as a story point that wanted to be explored. You know, thunder Roade on this tour has additional horns and their accenting moments, but the song itself and lyrically, though it supports a lot of the themes that the film was talking about. I tried to lean into things that would surprise you by talking about night Shift in a way that reminds you why Bruce might have picked this song. The film teaches you about Eat Street history, and it tells you two players are no longer with us, Danny and Clarence. And then I go to Nightshift and say, this is a homage to their type of creative spirit in Bruce's world.
That's what John sees.
But then I also unpack how that song is performed live, and I feel like Nightshift just was another way of showing.
Bruce the artist in a contemporary way.
Still exploring storytelling, still bringing things of his past into the show, but also keeping it fresh and new. Thunder Road though I completely obsessed with that song and I love it dearly. That's the power of being an editor and being influenced by these two guys, which is it didn't move the story forward, and it's not to say that it's not an amazing song, and it's great to see live.
Tom.
In closing, is there anything that I surprised you or you learned that you didn't expect to learn from this process and this amazing work.
Thank you first for this. It has been great to talk with you.
I had a lot of surprises with my interview with John. I just you know, I've known him for the twenty four years and I spent a lot of time talking to him. But he also just went to this place that as a filmmaker you stop and you go, oh my god, that's got to be in the movie. And he gave me so much time and detail and also helped unpack what he was seeing that was different than what the band was seeing at times, that was different than I was witnessing.
This was one of the most extensive interviews I did with John Landau.
And there's a moment in the film where he describes Bruce as the Maestro and he just just describes Bruce in this way of like knowing what he wants, knowing what he's going to get, and a man grounded in these ideals, and he is the maestro. John's saying that was like one of those moments that I knew right away that was going to be in the film.
You stop and you just go, Okay, that's that's happening. That's I could see that in the movie right now. So the big surprise was I.
Just didn't know what I was going to get from the band and John that was This was the first time I dip back into a little bit more history of the band as opposed to a particular album, whether it's Darkness or The River or Born to Run. This was taking the band as an overview. So I'm grateful for the time and the trust that they gave me, and but John in particular, he really ended up giving a lot of emotional soul to the film.
Well, I'm grateful for your time and for your soul and your spirit and you're just amazing where this is a true triumph. It's premiering on Hulu on October the twenty fifth, and it's just wonderful road diary Tom Zimney, thank you for being on Taking a Walk.
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