Join @thebuzzknight for this episode with singer-songwriter Beth Nielsen Chapman. Known for her deeply emotional and healing music, Beth shares insights in this musician storytelling podcast about her creative process and how her personal experiences of love, loss and resilience have shaped her work. With a career marked by triumphs and challenges, including overcoming a brain tumor and navigating personal grief, Beth discusses the transformative power of music and creativity in her life.
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Taking a Walk, And you know, it's like always tell my students, when you start a song, you're just looking at the same old, blank, white piece of paper. And guess what, when Bob Dylan starts a song, that's what he's looking at too, except that he has that whole catalog like hanging over his head, like what are you going to do now?
Bob?
You know, whereas if you're like a young, up and coming creator, you're like, well, what am I going to do? You know, instead of what am I going to do compared to what I've already done.
Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast, the show that talks with musicians, songwriters, and insiders about their inspiration, their creative process, and their latest work. On this episode, Buzz speaks with Beth Nielsen Chapman. She's a renowned singer and songwriter, A true advocate for the healing power of music. Her soulful voice and profound lyrics have filled numerous albums that blend folk, country, and pop influences. Beth has also written amazing music for countless artists, ranging from Faith Hill to Willie Nelson. She's persevered with dignity and resilience from tremendous life challenges, all while working as a motivational speaker and a teacher helping others to find their creative voices. Beth is truly inspiring and she joins buzz Night now on taking a walk.
Beth, Welcome to taking a walk.
It's so great to have you on, great to be here.
How do you have so much strength and resilience?
I don't know how. I just know one step at a time.
You know, I don't necessarily always feel when I'm going through a rough spell that I'm going to be resilient. I don't assume resilience. I think I just you know, lift the next weight, then, you know, take the next step. And I have learned in my sixty eight years to trust, trust what I can't know yet, and look back on all the things that I thought was weren't doable and that I did, and then go, well, I did that, so I'm going to be able to do this. It's like thinking makes it so or something like that. Yeah, I just kind of tell myself there's a way it'll open to me as I need to know. I'm on a need to know basis on how, But I just know that I'll get through it.
You often think that we all gain perspective, certainly through challenging times, But do you sometimes think about it going DoD Why is it that I need challenging times to make me aware that I need perspective?
Well, I don't think I need challenging times. It's just the byproduct of talent. Challenging times, and I don't think you can be a human without them. I just think it goes with the territory of being alive in the world, bouncing like ping pong balls against all the other people that are in your life that you love, that you hate, that you run into things with. I think it's just one of those things that accepting that there are going to be challenges and just trying to make use of the byproduct of it, which is perspective, which is a really powerful thing to take notice of. And sometimes it has to be pointed out to us, doesn't it. I mean, it's like we're in the middle and then we go wait, hold on. You know, most of the time, the perspective really comes after I've after things have settled back into normal, and then I go wow, you know, I walk outside and walk in nature, and I just I'm aware of so much more that's beautiful in the world, and.
It's such a hard time right now.
If you look at the news and the things happening with the weather and the wars and the things, and it's just, you know, it's really important to balance that out with peace as much as possible. However, you can dial it up, and for me that's music and and just getting in nature and breathing and not looking for a few minutes.
At a time when all the stuff is going on out there, we have to take care of ourselves.
One of the earliest influences of this podcast, the or the some of the teachings of I always feel like I'm mispronouncing his name, the late Teak not Han.
Oh yes, yeah, and how.
His teachings about you know, being aware when we walk and walk in the woods and of you know, the beauty around us and the sounds and everything. Who are some of the musical influences, much like Teak not Han's influences shaped you as a songwriter and a musician.
Oh so many, I mean both ends of the spectrum, from Deep like Paul Simon, James Taylor, kind of Deep, you know, seventies singer songwriter all those guys, Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon, Carol King, Soul Searching kind of lyrical musical masterpieces. But I was also very moved by motown and Stevie Wonder and just songs of life and and you know, even going farther back, I started to really by way of listening to Willie Nelson, actually I took a deep dive into Gershwin and all of those incredible like songs that are air tight, that where the melody and the words are so shaped beautifully it's like a piece of art, you know, And and all of that influenced me. I think being an air force sprat, moving around and being in different cultures and different parts of the world also had a big effect on me, feeling like we're not all that different, you know, and I'm just I think it just all kind of went into the fabric of how I write songs as I got older and started drawing from all that experience. And you know, it's like always tell my students, when you start a song, you're just looking at the same old, blank, white piece of paper. And guess what, when Bob Dylan starts a song, that's what he's looking at too. Except that he has that whole catalog like hanging over his head, like what are you going to do now, Bob? You know, whereas if you're like a young, up and coming creator, you're like, well, what am I going to do? You know, instead of what am I going to do compared to what I've already done. So there's even as you get successful and you have some things happen that you're really proud of, there's a weight attached to that that then can affect how you rebloom into a new day of creating and you try to get back to that innocence of childhood or of the childhood of your writing. And I feel like that around around life, you know too, just finding the joy and the simplest things coming after whatever tragedy one goes through. It's like it's doable, it's findable. It doesn't always seem like it is, but I think I think we find that getting back in touch with that stuff, and that's what tick not. Han's so mastered. I remember listening to one of his talks on eating an orange. Do you ever listen to that one?
I don't believe I have.
Oh my goodness, it's like he just did a whole lecture. You'd probably find it on YouTube. And he says, just look at the orange. Just look at it, Just look at the and he describes the little dimples and the little tiny pin dimples and now you're gonna smell it. And this thing goes on for twenty minutes before you actually taste it, and you're just like, your mouth is dripping with anticipation. I like, random the store and got an orange and ate it immediately because you peel it and then there's this little spread. I mean, he's so detailed about the experience of eating an orange, and you realize, gosh, you know, most of the time, I just like, I'm talking on the phone and I'm eating the orange and I'm not even paying attention.
And one of the great powerful, wise.
Choices of being in the world is actually not missing what's happening right now.
You know.
That is is a practice about being present, and it changed so many ways that I that I you know, I would literally go.
Back to that over and over and over again.
I think the thing that's powerful about songs and the way that people hear them is that they kind of forget where they are and they just they are in the song. And when I'm working with songwriters, I'm always trying to make sure that it doesn't smell like a songwriter was there. You want it to just be like you send somebody on a little journey and they're in the song with you and they're just like waiting to see what happens now, and then at the end of it they go, Wow, that was great.
It's like a little mini movie, you know, So it's.
Amazing, Which leads me to as a you know, as a Hall of Fame songwriter, is there one or two things that represent the essence of a great song.
Yes, to me, is something being communicated where another person is moved by the communication or or spellbound or drawn in. So when I get a song to critique, I will say, who's talking to who?
About what? And why? Those are the answers to the questions.
So, and there's a whole lot of parameters there, like you may not know exactly who, but you get a sense of kind of who this person is that's talking and who are they talking to? Are they talking to the audience, are they talking to another person, are they talking to themselves?
What are they saying? What exactly is it about?
You?
Know, and songs can be very mystical but also be grounded in the sense of, oh, I know what that song's about. It's not just one size fits all, but it's those parameters are really important. So it's to me, it's a communication that's not just the words, but the notes the words are on is very important to the meaning of what's being communicated. It's fascinating art form.
You've written for so many artists over your career. Is there a couple of particular collaborations that you'd like to highlight that, really, we're particularly meaningful. I know you love them all and they're they're all special, but are there a couple you can say, oh my god, this one really I have got a highlight?
Well, I mean, I've had such an amazing amount of adventures with all my co writers, it's hard to pick just one. I remember, you know, when I wrote a song ended up getting three songs on a Willie Nelson album back in nineteen ninety and I was a huge fan, and you know, he had heard my first hit that I wrote with Don Schlitz that was a hit for Tanya Tucker, strong Enough to Bend, And I guess at the time Willy wasn't writing very much. I think he was kind of transitioning out of one marriage into another, and he'd had, you know, I think Lucas had just been born. A lot was going on in his life. And he told his producer, we'll get whoever wrote that song to write a new one. So I was like, just being asked was such a huge thing for me.
That I was. I just spent three months.
Writing the song, and then he ended up cutting it and a couple of other ones, and after the record was finished, he was playing it, I think, off the back of a golf cart for Waylon Jennings, and Whylan loved the songs. He kept saying, well, that's a great song, Will and Will. He goes, well, I didn't write that one, and he goes, well who wrote that? And he' said Beth muels Jef. So that happened a couple of times when he was listening to the record, and I ended up getting this phone call from Waylon Jennings and he goes, this is Ylon Jennings. This is a call for best Chapman. I just have one thing to say to you, young lady. Write me a damn song. Then he hangs up and I'm like, oh my god, he didn't leave his phone number. This is before caller I d you know, But I got his phone number. And I ended up writing some songs with Whylan, and he ended up cutting one of my songs that I wrote for him, and uh, well, he asked me to write him a song and I kept trying to write an outlaw song and I'm like, I'm so not an outlaw songwriter.
I was like, they were sounding terrible.
And then during that rite, during that time, I heard that he had gone in for triple bypass surgery, like a big operation, and he came through it just fine, but he had a long period of recoup I mean recouping recovery. And I thought, now, what would Waylan want to say, you know? And I started thinking about sitting on a porch with a little kid, just kind of recuperating and doing something small and peaceful. And so I wrote this song called old Church Hymns and Nursery rhymes about sitting on a porch with a kid, and that that's kind of what it's all about. And he cut it and his daughter sang the harmony with them, and then we ended up becoming friends and writing a bunch of songs together, and I just he was one of my favorite people to hang out with. And his wife, Jesse also I loved so dearly. And I mean he used to say the funniest things. He'd say, like she would be going out to the store while we were in the living room writing and she'd say, what do you want from the store, And he'd say, woman, you just interrupted me.
You made me lose my train of thought.
She goes, well, I'm gonna to have to eat what I get and she just goes on and goes out the door and he turns to me and he goes, I overmarried. So, I mean, you know, those kinds of people that have the brain like he did, they're just it's the most fun job in the world. There's so many different stories I could tell about writing with different writers, because it's like being entering into a whole other kind of realm of humanity.
Tell us about your song put a Woman in Charge. Oh, you collaborated with keV Mo, that's right, and John Lewis Parker, John Lowis Parker.
Yeah, So keV was working on this song with John Lewis, who is in LA and keV was in Nashville, and I had just come back from a tour in the UK with terrible aerngitis. This would have been about twenty eighteen, and I was standing in the kitchen telling my husband Bob.
I was like, I've got to go right down and like I'm like I.
Could barely talk, and he goes, yeah, you go go rest. That's really smart. And then right at that moment, the phone rang in my hand and it was keV Money goes, what are you doing?
I'm like nothing, I guess can you come over right now? I'm like I'll be right there, you know.
And so Bob was like watching me get in the car, like, what part of going to rest is this? I'm like, this is the part where Kembo called. So I went over there and he said, we want to write this song. We need a woman to be involved because you know, we don't want to be out of our depth, but we don't want it to be political. We want it to be a humanitarian. And you know, it was like just respect, you know, like respect for women. Where the heck, what the heck? What's going on here? It was way before it right now, but right now it seems to have been catching fire. With Kamala Harris running for president. So I mean, I think it's well beyond time that women are in more positions of power than they are and it's getting there, you know. So it's a fun song though, and I loved when we were writing it.
You know, keb was very aware of not not bashing.
Men in any way, just saying women, you know, hey, let's don't not use this resource here.
Well, Beth, you were a great guest on our sort of companion podcast called Music Save Me with Lynn Hoffman.
Oh yeah, that was so fun.
And I want to close by asking you the difficult question, where the heck would we all be if we didn't have music in our in our lives.
I can't even imagine a world without music. And you know, when I teach these workshops on voice.
And on songwriting, one of the things I.
Address for people is to walk around in the world and instead of hearing people talk thinking of think of what they're doing is singing, because they're all you know, you're going, hi, how are you, You're you're hitting different notes. You're literally making music all day long unless you're talking to them on a tone, and then it doesn't count. So I think if we didn't have music in its present form.
Of all of the.
Bells and whistles, that even speaking from one person to another is music. I think our communications with each other is music.
It's just gone.
All wildly developed from the simplicity of saying, hey, can you hand me that tomata da da da da da da da da da.
You know.
So I think we're just doing music all day long. And I think when you put up that antenna and you start to hear the songs that people are singing in their communication, especially songwriters. I try to encourage them to walk around in the world and think of it as song hunting or standing in the grocery line and somebody says something completely natural in a conversation and you go, that's a great title, you know, because the titles are all normal things. The number one hit song I wrote for Willie Nelson was nothing I can do about it now, which people say all day long, you know. But being able to go, wait, that's a thing, you know, Identifying it and doing something with it is sort of the expertise of the of the listening songwriter who's fully activated. So it's like, to me, the world is everybody's a songwriter. Whether they're activated or not, I don't know, but I can help them get activated if they're not.
Beth Nielsen Chapman, thanks for making the world a better place, and thanks for being I'm taking a walk. Thank you.
It's my pleasure. Thank you so much.
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